of iowans disapprove. if any of that information touches off, a heated debate on the set, remember, the safe word is rose bushes. >> thank you for joining us. "ac 360" starts now. get ready. two clocks ticking right now. at 10:00 eastern time tonight the senate holds a vote on the spending bill. in any case, at one second after midnight, if there is no legislation, the government officially shuts down. this has real world consequences for millions of people, not to mention political fallout. and tonight we will cover all aspects.

i want to start at the capital with phil mattingly. what are your sources saying to expect from the meeting. >> reporter: first meeting of senate democrats today one expected for a while. it will be a couple of things, an update on where things stand. first meeting since chuck schumer met with the president. also an updates on potential pathways forward, perhaps off ramps. most importantly a gut check. this meeting coming 90 minutes before the vote comes as democrats are clear, according to several sources that i have spoken with that they have the votes from preventing senate majority leading from getting the votes he needs. there is no clear resolution

forward. democrats have said they are steadfast. remain united and not moving off from where they have been. this is the real time. no talk on what could happen, it is now happening. >> the vote that we have been waiting for is now set to happen at 10:00 p.m. is it going to fail? that is based on what right now democrats are saying. >> reporter: purely the numbers game. absolutely. two republicans who will vote no. another considering. so far we expect a couple of more to join them. given there are only 50 republicans in attendants they know more than three. maybe 14 depending on how things play out. as of this moment clear in chambers right now those votes don't exist. the big question is is there some shorter term compromise.

i am told at the moment senate majority leader mitch mcconnell is not considering that. there is a house pass bill, it is four-year extension, six year extension of the children -- that hasn't been negotiable. how has that shifted, it is somewhat of an open question. at this point heading into this vote, doesn't appear to be an alternative. and by all accounts right now, things are very much headed to a shutdown at midnight. >> i want to go quickly to the white house and cnn jim acosta. what are you hearing? >> reporter: he met with the senate majority leader. he was on the phone with paul ryan. but to echo what phil mattingly

was saying, skepticism here at the white house as to whether or not they could make a deal. smoke signals could be out of the capitol. you saw heidi heitkamp and now they are putting pressure on other democrats. the white house press secretary has been tweeting with them saying get on board. but anderson, i just talk to a white house official in just the last few minutes about whether or not there might be the chance for some kind of alternative plan beyond this four-week cr that they have been talking about, whether a short-term cr could work. and this white house official

was saying it was not likely to pass the house. what phil mattingly was saying, this is right. nobody wants to swallow a compromise tonight. >> that meeting with chuck schumer, did anything come out of it? >> reporter: we will have to see what happens when democrats get together in about a half an hour from now and i talked to a source on capitol hill a few moments ago. they don't believe there are enough democratic defections to get this resolution over the finish line and if that doesn't happen, in search of a plan b. white house official says they don't think the house is going to go for a short-term resolution. at this point, running out of options and running out of time.

>> thanks very much. with us now is bernie sanders is. are you a no-vote on the continuing resolution as it stands? >> yes. i think what is going on to me is very clear that the republicans really want to shut down the government for every reason. where we are is not complicated. as you know, in the united states senate you need 60 votes to pass this budget resolution. mitch mcconnell doesn't have it. he knows he doesn't have it. the option he has now is okay, i don't have the 60 vote, let's sit down and negotiate and work in a nonpartisan way to address the crisis last night we received a tweet from the pentagon and what they told us that they need a fully funded

2018 fiscal budget. they cannot function on a month to month basis. we are a $4 trillion government. we need to have an annual budget because what is going on is dangerous and wasteful for our country. many crisis have not been addressed and we cannot keep kicking the can down the road. >> the republican and the white house is saying it is the democrats who seem to want to shut down by forcing the immigration on daca. >> that is not true. here, again, is the situation. and let the viewers make their decision. mitch mcconnell does not have 60 votes. and if he goes forward tonight at 10:00 as i understand he will, he will lose. therefore, the government will shut down. n understanding that, what a rational person who doesn't want to shut down the government says

okay, we don't have 60 vote, we have to sit down and negotiate. what do you want. that is what has to happen. for whatever reason, they may think politically that a shut down works to their benefit. you remember way back when, when the president, donald trump was talking about maybe the country needs a good shut down. but mcconnell needs to start negotiating. and it is not just about daca. we are three and a half months into the feiscal year and we still don't have a budget. it means that 30,000 vacatecies at the veteran's administration still not filled. heroin and opioid epidemic not addressing. a collapsing infrastructure not

addressing it. we have real work to do. and we can't have a dysfunctional government. >> so if -- >> not what we are paid to do. >> if mitch mcconnell comes let's have a vote. let's negotiate. it would be daca and more permanent budgetary solution. >> and a disaster relief. four months after the terrible hurricanes in puerto rico and the virgin islands, in puerto rico tens of thousands of people still without electricity. so what we need to do is to figure out a way as to how we are going to address the problems facing working families and deal with disaster relief. fund to military. and last night a cbs poll came out it said 87% of american

people feel we should provide legal status. after three and a half months of this fiscal year, the republican leadership has not been serious about addressing the crisis facing the d.r.e.a.m.ers. >> when the white house says the democrats are hurting children if the government shut downs because there is funding for chip, for the children's health insurance program. >> it has no end. three and a half months they have not funded chip. brought to the floor three and a half months ago, it would have got 90 votes. this program is like 50-years old. it is supported by democrats. it is supported by republicans.

they haven't reauthorized that program. so we have many issues out there that have got to be dealt with and all we are saying is you support the house. govern. it is hurting the pentagon and so many aspects of our country and once again, mitch mcconnell knows he does not have the votes and if he goes forward and he loses, it is mitch mcconnell and our republican colleagues who are shutting down the government. >> so that is your message to federal workers if they do not get the paycheck. you say it is mitch mcconnell's fault, it is the republican's fault. >> he does not have the votes. he knows he does not have the votes. why do you go forward and losing rather than sitting down and

negotiating. when you talk about disaster relief, i think we can reach an agreement quickly. when 87% of the american people support legal status, in a path towards citizenship, we can reach an agreement. we can reach an agreement in terms of how much we spend on the military and how much we spend on the domestic needs of the works family. if you bring people together in a few days you can address these crisis. but we can't do it unless there is negotiations. >> you mentioned a poll a second ago. i want to show you a cnn poll it says 31% would blame democrats. does that concern you? >> sure it is. a shut down is bad for federal

employees. it is, you know, it is a bad, bad thing. and that's why i hope that the republicans understand. >> mulvaney cited you. i want to play that for you. >> bernie sanders, what they are saying, by the way, it was of me. what they are saying the american people tonight maybe we have lost the presidential election, lost seats in the house. it doesn't matter, we can bring the government to shut town and get our way no matter what. >> how do you respond to that? >> what mr. mulvaney is talking

about is his desire to repeal obamacare when president obama was the president. throw americans off of health care which is terrible unto himself. but obviously president obama with as not about to repeal obamacare. what we are facing today is a crisis facing d.r.e.a.m.ers. a crisis precipitated by president trump. hundreds frightened to death about their future. lose their legal status and be suggested to tdeportation. >> i wonder what you expect to come of the meeting or hope to hear. >> i don't know.

i am anxious to get down there and see what will be discussed. >> are you saying you want to end the interview? just kidding. >> i am delighted to talk to you. >> no. you have to go to the meeting. i appreciate your time. following late developments. this is a rally for daca young people, d.r.e.a.m.ers. see who donald trump once thought should get the blame for government shut down. and we will show you part of it ahead. citizen trump, candidate trump, and the alleged porn star payoff. it's absolute confidence in 30,000 precision parts. or it isn't. it's inspected by mercedes-benz factory-trained technicians. or it isn't. it's backed by an unlimited mileage warranty, or it isn't. for those who never settle,

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washington crossing the delaware turnpike? surprising. what's not surprising? how much money sean saved by switching to geico. big man with a horn. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. as we wait for tonight's first senate vote and the shut down fast approaching, it was worth looking at donald trump, when he was a citizen. >> a president not leading and not getting into a room and not shouting and cajoling. and all of these different emotions you have to do. make people in the room and make deals for the good of the country. >> so scoring to donald trump back in 2013, and for donald

trump now. 31% say the democrats and 10% says they will blame all of them. the job approval ticking up slightly. joining me is gloria borger and dana bash. what are you learning tonight? >> first and foremost and gloria has heard similar bits of information, and that is the name of the game for senate democrats right now is to try to extract the shortest continuing resolution as possible from the republicans and from the white house. three, four, five days. and the goal according to democratic senators i have spoken to and aides is to do

that and keep negotiations going. the obvious question are what are those negotiations. i don't know the answer to that. but senator schumer, his chief of staff, the president, his chief of staff. and the substance is everything we have been talking about for many days obviously keeping the government rung and dealing with the military spending caps and of course the democrat's big request that they are going to the brink about which is dealing with the d.r.e.a.m.ers. having said all of that. i have not talked to a democrat or a republican who has not said they don't think it is possible. >> gloria, is that what you are hearing? >> yeah, chuck schumer wants this to be three days to five

days because he doesn't want the air to go out of the balloon. he has to keep his red state democrats in line. he has lost a few of them. so far they are holding. the longer this goes, the more potential he needs. he has to get the approval of senate democrats and then the house folks on the democratic side have to say to him okay, we are going to be with you on this. so there is a lot of issues, you know, he can't do something in the senate that in the end is going to anger his folks in the house. and so it is a balancing act and they all realize, i think, that they all look foolish to a degree but all have their talking points down right now. the republicans saying the democrats are willing to give up children's health. and that's not, you know, so we are going to hear this for a little bit, who know what is

they can do before midnight. >> dana, the idea of a three to five-day extension to the point of what democrats think, it does seem a lot to negotiate. daca, military stuff, children's health insurance program. bernie sanders is talking about disaster relief. >> sure. of course it is very much to do in that short amount of time. which is why on the republican side they are saying, no, we need to be longer if we are going to keep these talks going. but that is how we got where we are in the first place. negotiating the size and shape of the table right now. and it shouldn't be happening at the eleventh hour where we are right now. i will say i talked to a couple of senators who said they were meeting with what they called themselves the common sense caucus, some democrats, some republicans who have been trying to find a way themselves.

and we have in the past seen bipartisan comprise born out of those such meetings in the united states senate. >> these are people who don't talk to each other. they haven't talked to each other for much of the past year. you know, we are not used to having, seeing bipartisan meetings or bipartisan negotiations. so even the trust between chuck schumer on the democratic side or mitch mcconnell on the republican side isn't there. >> do they have a good working relationship? >> chuck schumer voted against the confirmation of mitch mcconnell's wife when she was up to become transportation secretary. that did no the get it off to a great start. so i think they are not used to dealing with each other and since they are not used to

sitting around the table dana is talking about, i don't know how this is going to turn out. this is unfamiliar to all of them. >> and gloria is absolutely right, they don't work together very much. by nature both of these leaders are deal makers, so they can do it. in this environment, particularly the republican leaders they need the cover from the president and that is what is wanting. >> stay with us. a look at how a shut down would impact critical federal agencies. devastating to the u.s. military. some answers when we come back. on the network rated number one in the nation by rootmetrics 8 times running. it's totally verizon. woah, woah. switch to the most awarded network with the best unlimited, and get up to $450 off our best phones.

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if tonight's voting fails to het off a shutdown, the question is simple. what gets shutdown. tom foreman joins us now. >> 850,000 government workers could be locked out of their offices and left without paychecks. that is what happened in 2013.

it would likely be the same now. the cdc backing down flu tracking. 200,000 pass port applications went unprocessed during 2005 shutdown. suffered some costly losses of data as a result. in space, that same year for more than two weeks,nasa reportedly stopped monitoring potentially dangerous asteroids. and as for the 417 national parks, administration wants to keep limited access wherever possible. but services would be reduced. and all 19 of the smithsonian museums shut their doors. >> i am not going to think about

a giant asteroid hitting roof. sarah sanders tweeting now. would the shutdown hurt the military? >> congress has previously gone out of its way to diminish the impact on military families they may do that again. troops may stay on duty. 1.9 million government workers. social security checks would go out to seniors. and the post office would be open. people would be working without pay until shutdown is over.

and important to note, all of this could be pricey for us too. we don't get a break because people don't work. one cost estimate shows shutting down the government would cost taxpayers an additional $6 billion a week. >> tom. thanks for much. starting their meeting. let's check in with phil matting li. >> reporter: what we can say right now is right before democrats is supposed to meet, a series of meetings leading into that. over the course of the last half hour. here is where things are right now. competing interest inside the democratic caucus. a lot of members making it clear this is the fight they want now. daca is an enormous issue.

you have democrats like joe donely. he has said he is going to vote yes on the republican short-term plan. senator manchin saying the same thing. the space where you are hearing where there is a potential agreement is on some type of shorter term. the time line is up in the air. some republican senators like graham, somebody who is opposed to the republican plan right now says three weeks is the sweet spot here. will the votes be there. republicans are waiting. they want to see where democrats hold up. but the question right now that everybody is waiting for an answer to is when the democrats

as an entire caucus get inside the meeting what will the feeling be. if there is willingness to mu in some way and drop demands relating to daca, perhaps there is something there. if they are not, and it is worth noting, they have not been for the entirety of the day, most certainly the vote that there be happening in an hour and a half from now will fail and it looks like a shutdown will happen. the change is real talks of democrats not wanting the shutdown to happen. discussion ongoing right now. what we are waiting for is what will happen. >> talking about democrats in red states who are feeling pressure and may peel away from chuck schumer wants. what is the pressure they are facing. why would they peel away and how

impactful would that be on the democrats holding the line keeping it below 60 votes. >> reporter: the group we have been looking at if you look at the 49 democratic caucus, ten members that are running for re-election that comes from states that then candidate trump won. so a lot of people looking to them to see where they will end up on this. not all of them are going to vote yes tonight. three have said yes a handful haven't committed one way or another. mccaskill from missouri will end up being a yes on this. they would need 60 yes votes to move anything forward. we know senator rand paul of kentucky is opposed of any short-term cr.

needing 11. the question is they are going to get some democrats no matter what even on the short-term house pass funding bill. if there is some type of resolution or agreement on a shorter term cr, can they get the votes of 11, 12, 13, 14 more. that is what mitch mcconnell is waiting to see as we are all waiting to see, as the entire 49 caucus meets right now. >> finger pointing, deal making. mike shields and simone sanders. everybody gets some blame. the democrats don't come away unscathed. >> you know, look, republicans are literally in charge of the government.

they have the white house, the senate, and the united states house of representatives, if a feel cannot be reached it is because of the inability to govern. we were almost here a couple of weeks ago and the only reason we are to this point right now is because republicans failed to negotiate in good faith with democrats. and democrats want the government to be funded. i talked to folks in schumer's office and said there are still a lot -- >> the entire report is coming out in the side of the democratic caucus. what is interesting about continuing resolutions, this time they are voting because what is not in it. and here is what is going on. anonymous senior democrat who says our base is so fired up right now, we have got to have a

fight. we have to shut the government down. sanders said it himself, he needs 60 votes. >> i don't think so. >> make the tax cuts permanent, we need 60 votes in the senate. the entire game is whether or not the democrats are going to throw their red state people over board to make their people happy. >> phil mattingly just said, 1112, 13, 14. >> you need 60 votes so you to have have the democrats in some way. you know they are going to make their base angry. >> we know there is a bipartisan bill, and it is truly bipartisan. bipartisan bill that could pass the senate. mitch mcconnell will not put the bill on the floor because he is

unsure if the president will sign it. let the republican president veto it. >> i mean if the republicans had been interested in the chip program, cooperate they have done this a while ago. >> it has been up for vote four times and the deadline is now. we know there is going to be something happening. the chip program is in there. >> but if the republcans were so concerned about the chip program, isn't it something they could have done months ago? >> if you need 60 votes and you need something in the bill to champion the republicans you put something in the bill. >> you are playing politics. >> we are going to put it in the vote to get your votes and they said no wait a minute, we have to have daca, we need to make

our base happy. they will shut it down and say, we checked the box. can we now in the red state government -- >> i have to chuckle it a little bit. republicans are in charge, it is a gross misrepresentation that chip could have been fupded. >> something they could have negotiated down the road. >> since donald trump had made that announcement in september, over 15,000 d.r.e.a.m.ers lost their status. if folks want to get things down, cut a deal. >> the drama of the daca. that is the fight. >> how some of them actually played out. next. [phone ringing]

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quick update, notice it is after 8:30, however the meeting has yet to begin. if there is a government shutdown, not the first time we have been here before. in the mid '90s one lasted three

weeks. >> reporter: house republicans led by speaker john boehner wanted the white house to -- demanded that any funding bill delay implementation of obamacare by one year. >> refused to compromise at all. >> reporter: national parks were shut down. even the world war ii memorial in washington d.c. obama took a lot of heat. after 16 days, speaker. a funding bill that in the end even after the shutdown did not defund obamacare. >> we have been locked in a fight over here trying to bring government down to size.

we fought the good fight. we didn't win. >> reporter: hundreds of thousands of government employees who had been furloughed returned to work. back to critical medical research programs, to national parks even the panda-cam at the national zoo. >> we will begin to open our government immediately. >> reporter: this country went without a shutdown for 17 years until it shut down under president obama. the last two were in 1995 under president clinton. >> it is particularly unfortunate that the republican congress has brought us to this juncture because we share a central goal balancing the federal budget. >> reporter: the first shutdown

lasted five days. >> it is very difficult to work with a president who seems to be primarily driven by his political advisers so engage in public relations stunt. >> reporter: the government also shut down for a long period, 17 days. carter said no to a defense spending bill which funded a nuclear aircraft carrier. carter ultimately prevailed. the projects he thought were wasteful were removed from the bill. randi kaye, cnn new york. >> gloria borger and dana bash back with us. those images, leaders on both sides of the aisle are happy the parks will stay open. >> that is right. and remember the big difference

politically between 2013 and now is that then, the democrats had the white house. barack obama was at 1600 pennsylvania avenue and there was blame going around saying the republicans are responsible for all of these things. that could be likely is why the parks and other things closed down and now, when republicans are in total control of the government, they are saying, in the trump white house that it is not going to be that extreme. probably for the reason that you just alluded to which is that the optics won't be as bad assuming they can't get to a deal by midnight tonight. the workday in the u.s. government isn't officially until monday, but parks and other things that people in this country enjoy don't stop on the weekend. since you and i last talked, the

things that i am hearing from sources on capitol hill is some discussion about whether or not the cr, the continuing resolution should go through the state of the union. that is what joe manchin the west virginia democrat is saying to reporters in the hallways. i was told by administration force that this is not a white house demand. >> gloria, for what we just saw, the past government shutdowns they have lasted in weeks. real consequences for very real people especially people who live paycheck to pay check goes beyond politics. >> sure it does. 850,000 federal workers would be furloughed and then essential federal workers, a million of them at least who would have to work without pay because they

have to do their jobs. think of things you don't normally think of like the center for disease control that tracks flu outbreaks around the country. processing your passport if you want to go abroad or go to a museum or the smithsonian, you are not going to be able to go. these are things, i mean people are still going to get their social security checks and still get in an airplane because air traffic controllers are essential. but i do think that, you know, the longer this goes on, the more people will feel it. and by the way, you know, we're all related to our government in one way or another. and i think that that's why you see the polls overwhelmingly showing that people don't want the government to shut down. >> has it ever worked out well. >> no. let me take that back.

yes in the short-term it worked out well for bill clinton because republicans were convinced back then after they swept the congress when newt gingrich was speaker of the house they were convinced that bill clinton would get the blame and he didn't. and it was monica lieu -- >> by the lawyer for then candidate trump. # then add a hotel, and save. ♪ everything you need to go. expedia

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as which look at a pro-daca rally at the capital, we're continuing to monitor late developments as the government shutdown gets closer along with the vote -- a preliminary vote to prevent it. we'll continue bringing you the news on this throughout the program, throughout the night, through the next hour. first another big story, "the wall street journal" has been reporting that a lawyer for donald trump arranged a hefty cash payment to an adult porn star as the 2016 election campaign was winding down. the reason? the journal says to prevent that porn star, who goes by the name stormy daniels, from discloser details of an alleged affair with now president trump. both the attorney, michael cohen, as well as ms. daniels has said no such affair has took place. mr. cohen said the reporter was, quote, wasting his time pressing

for details about the payment which was arrangd three a private company in delaware. joining me is michael roth feld one of the reporters who wrote the story. so what are the details of the payments that the president's lawyer made to stormy daniels? >> well, they agreed to pay her $130,000. at least michael cohen did, the president's lawyer, through a limited liability company that he created in delaware. >> so they created this limited liability company especially for this payment? >> yeah. michael cohen created it, and he's listed as the authorized person on the paperwork in delaware, which we obtained, and opened a bank account and then wired the money to the lawyer for stormy daniels in los angeles at citi national bank. >> why $130,000? it just seems like an odd sum. >> it is. i mean who knows what is the market for, you know, keeping a story of an affair quiet right before an election involving a porn star?

but we had previously reported that the "national enquirer's" parent company paid $150,000 to a former playmate for keeping her story silent about an affair with trump, so it's kind of in the same ballpark. >> that's something i assume you may not have the details, that the lawyer for stormy daniels negotiated with michael cohen. >> that's right. that's right. actually it was the same lawyer, keith davidson, who represented both the former playmate and the former adult film star. >> okay. and how did you figure out that the money cohen paid ultimately to her went through this company which was i think called essential consultants? >> we talked to a number of people who were aware of this deal and who corroborated it for us based on their accounts. and in addition, we found the company, and so based on that reporting, we were confident that this is what happened. >> can you tell if a company has

made other payments? i mean would this company only exist for this one payment, or is that impossible -- >> it's impossible to totally know unless you have the company's bank accounts. we do know that michael cohen created this company in october 2016, and then actually used it a few months later for another deal, which was a consulting contract with a health care payment company. so he -- but it's not common when you create something like this, it's typically for a one-off because if you were going to use it for ongoing business, you'd create it in your own state as opposed to delaware. >> wasn't stormy daniels talking, based on your reporting, talking to abc about perhaps appearing on good morning america? >> yes. she was going to go on good morning america. they were in discussions. she was also talking to various other media outlets because she was apparently in discussions with michael cohen for several months, and they were dragging on, and she was afraid she wasn't going to get payment before the election. so she was kind of looking at all her alternatives as to how

she might get paid. >> so the supposition is that once they found out she was maybe -- or maybe she informed them that she was talking to gma and others, that's when the payment ultimately -- >> yes. i mean that was potentially some leverage that she had. but, you know, she has to be careful she doesn't get accused of extortion because, you know, if you go too far and say, if you don't do this, you know, then you have to pay me or else, then you could be guilty of that. >> what has michael cohen said about all this? >> he's just said that these are recycled stories about an alleged affair that never happened because there was some reporting on a gossip website about this allegation of an affair a number of years ago involving stormy daniels, which he denied at the time. he did not address the settlement payment, the nondisclosure agreement with stormy daniels, whose real name is stephanie clifford. >> he just ignored that part? >> i talked to him on the phone, and we also e-mailed him questions, and he just didn't

respond to that part. >> and stormy daniels is not talking? >> she's not, no. we repeatedly have e-mailed her before our story came out last week reporting on this. we e-mailed her again this week when we reported about this company michael cohen created, and she hasn't responded to any of that. the only statement she provided was michael cohen sending us a printed statement signed by stormy daniels apparently -- it has a signature on it. we tried to confirm with her that she actually wrote that or sent it, but she didn't respond. >> it's a fascinating story. thanks so much. >> thank you. coming up next, we'll go back to capitol hill, get an update on talks to avert a government shutdown. are lawmakers actually making any progress at this hour? a key vote will happen soon. we'll have the latest in a moment. you can book a flight, then add a hotel, and save. everything you need to go. expedia.

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we are three hours from a government shutdown and one hour from an initial senate vote on legislation to stop it. all day and night we've seep the arm twisting, finger pointing, all the other political fancy dancing that most people have so little patience for. we've seen the senate's leading democrat go to the bhous and the president stay home instead of leaving for mar-a-lago. there's a lot to get to in the hour ahead, a lot we're learning, but a lot still in flux. i want to start off with phil mattingly who is at the capitol hill where senate democrats are