with trump's ingrammigration, w is in the coverage. amy goodman with an answer and president trump swiping at jay-z after this interview with van jones. >> the protrump media is escalating the war on robert muell mueller. one weapon is confusion. the challenge for you and me is to refuse to be confused. let's lay it all out here. almost every day there is at least one revelation how many people robert mueller interviewed and how much the special counsel investigation learned about the inner workings of trump world. mueller knows the repeatedly tried to pressure individuals. leak by leak, the ones there on screen, it becomes clear trump is in more and more of a proc precarious situation. with those in mind, here is how it works.

the worst it gets for trump, the wilder the conspiracy theories get and the counter narrative. check this out. this is a montage, a few examples talking about the deep state, terrible texts and secret societies. >> from what we've seen, it's shaping up to be the biggest scandal in america history. this is going to make watergate look like an after thought. >> there are concerns about a so-called secret society. >> secret societies in the fbi. >> the missing text, the insurance policy, the dossier. it all adds up. >> abuses committed by very top officials, you can't make this up in a spy novel. >> a spy novel? it sounds like great fit for hanma hanni hannity. when gop congressmen talk about anti trump fbi agents, hannity ran with it. the context looked like a dumb

joke, hannity dropped it. that's how it works. they find another way to attack mueller but the message is always the same. see these mueller gate banners from hannity the other night? it says on screen investigating the investigators. fox' message is trump is the victim of a deep-state plot to ruin his presidency and remember, the president watches this stuff and reacts to it. so one day he tweets during "fox and friends" that the missing te text messages is one of the biggest stories in a long time and at night where are the 50,000 important text messages? this is about two fbi officials dating and texting each other. trump totally mangled the facts about this in his tweets. yes, the two employees did talk a lot and the doj reviewed 50,000 in total but we don't know how many texts went missing and it's a moot point now since they have been found but do you see what is happening here?

the more we talk about texts and jokes and memos, the further we get from the real information. look what happened on thursday when "the new york times" broke the news trump ordered mueller fired but backed off when the white house counsel threatened to quit. they called in. there was rolling breaking news coverage on cable except on fox. tucker carlson ignored the story and an hour later, hannity dismissed it. >> "the new york times" is trying to district you. they have a story trump wanted mueller fired sometime last june and our sources and i've checked in with many of them, they are not confirming that tonight and the president's attorney dismissed the story and says no, no comment. we're not going there. how many times has "the new york times" and others gotten it wrong? >> then after a commercial break, reality intruded.

>> we have sources tonight just confirming to ed henry that yeah, maybe donald trump wanted to fire the special counsel for c conflict. does he not have the right to deal with these questions? we'll deal with this tomorrow night. you see that red suv, high speed place chase. >> cut it off. that it is right there. let's just turn to a video of a police chase. the challenge for us as news consumers and people like me as reporters is to refuse to be confused, to refuse to fall for all these traps, all these theories, all this noise and instead to stay focused on the huge story unfolding in washington. let's talk about that with jackie, white house editor for the los angeles times d.c. burro and here in new york, veteran journalist and commentator and an associate editor at

commentary magazine. noah, what explains the propensity for some to buy into these conspiracy theories about secret societies and other things? >> there is a real legit the basis on the right for questioning the authority of the fbi in this matter, questioning whether there is abuse of the fisa courts and how unmasking happened. these are things conservative issues and conservatives that have allies should be skeptical when they sacrifice their incredibility by going down a rabbit hole. you don't have to be a professional skeptic to know fbi counter intelligence officials won't be actively sabotaging the presidency on the government-ish sued ce -- issued cell phones. when there is a quote unquote conspiracy, they sacrifice credibility on matters that are serious. questioning the fbi is is not

necessa sacrificing. questioning the texts as another example why the mueller probe is legitimate, demonstrates you have an agenda. >> partly, lawmakers, protrump posts need something else to talk about because if they have to talk about the reality of the russia investigations, that t's problem. there is a lot of problems they face doing that. that's my view. what's your view of the impact first in the new york times and reported by outlets including cnn trump tried to stop mueller and talked out of it? how significant -- >> you can't under estimate the significance of the story that he tried to fire mueller and that his white house counsel threatened to resign. it sent shock waves through the white house. most people i talked to in the white house do not believe that trump is untouched by this investigation. >> you have sources in the white house? >> absolutely. and yes, you know, this white house is accessible.

and if you talk to people in the white house, as many of us do, you find that this mcgahn story has shocked people to their core because they understand in the white house how vulnerable now their president is. they are not willing as mccann was not willing to be part of a coverup, part of an obstruction of justice and meanwhile, the president is increasingly alone out there in terms of everybody but his base and that includes the people in congress who have been his foil thus far along with the base in saying oh, yes, this is fake news and all the rest. it's almost impossible i think for this investigation to go forward much more and those false fake news cliaims to have any resonance because the pieces are starting to fall together and one thing we know about donald trump's presidency is more energy effort and

engagement is undermining, make this go away and still determined to do it. that's still going to work. that's becoming more and more apparent and more frustrating to him. >> what his allies do is claim it's fake news or say it's old news but try to change the subject. here is how "fox and friends" handled this on friday morning. check it out. >> there is a big story apparently the president of the united states last june wanted to fire robert mueller. >> right. well, the president says that the fake news. that happened last june. it's something we have to tell you about because it's a headline. what do you think about that? do you care? >> carl, when you see that reaction, do you even care about this? are they doing a disservice to

their audience? >> look, we're in the midst of a cold civil war as i said in this country and the shock troops in the cold civil war on one side and the cold civil war is at fox news. fox is hugely important. it's a political force in this country such as we've never seen in the last 40 years, maybe the dominant political force of changing mom tipolitics. we should not minimize them. we need to look at what it is is their agenda is which has nothing to do with the news and yet, there are good reporters over at fox and if you talk to those good reporters over at fox, they will tell you this investigation is serious business, that they don't know where it's going but it's not going away, it has the president of the united states, members of his family, members of his close business associates, his organization, they are looking at his finances and looking at his campaign and transition to

see if anything untoward happened in terms of abusing the office, they know this. >> so i think here is the dilemma. >> that the t's the story. part of the story is republicans enabled trump to do this. they enabled trump, particularly republicans to continue to throw this smoke screen out there and say no, this is about trying to say i'm an illegitimate president of the united states. he's a legitimate president of the united states and let's say that loud and clear and legitimate presidents of the united states are subject to investigation and held accountable to the law. he's attempting to evade the law and that is more and more apparent and in the last week since that mcgahn story, i think you're starting to see among republicans and we'll see how long mcconnell and they maintain silence on this. i think we'll start to see mr. president, you have got to stop

da me dem meaning and undermine thing investigation. >> the various conspiracy theories and alternatives. as a reporter in washington for the l.a. times, what do you do? how much time do you spend trying to debunk or fact check to figure out versus covering the real issues carl is describing? >> spend too much time fortunately, it's abbreviated because the conspiracy theories have no basis in most cases. when you see some of the things debunked in the past year, you know, you go from the trump's claim that obama had wiretapped him and 3 to 5 million illegals voted for hillary clinton and that's why she won the popular vote and the dnc staffer seth rich was assassinated and they kept it up even after the morning parents just begged

people to stop. you spend time on it. it's time that could be better spent on real news but you can find it's baseless. i was struck when you had the clip from sean hannity or fox, the fox and friends person who said well, we have to tell you about this, the fact that mueller was -- or trump -- >> trump tried -- >> trump tried to pyfire muelle and don mcgahn threatened to quit. we have to tell you because it's a headline at the "new york times." these stories don't get in the new york times unless they are real. there are four anonymous sources but i can tell you, you know, those editors though wknow who sources are. the idea they are saying we're districting when the distraction is on the other side doesn't pass the laugh test. >> there is something notable to me, since thursday night, other outlets confirmed a lack of an

attempt to deny it. trump called it fake news quickly. there hasn't been a statement from the press secretary. there aren't allies denying it, denying it. i don't have knowledge it might have happened. peel a people are being careful to not deny it because they could be in trouble with mueller. >> the speculation is a lot comes out of mcgahn's office and we can go down why that would be the case. it doesn't look good for the white house if that were the case. because these are detailed and have insider information, that sounds reasonable to me. we can -- we should probably note that when donald trump spoke with the "new york times" in july, he said this is supposed to be about russia. if this goes towards my finances, that would be a red line for me. that was the republican line and it's not irrelevant. that should have been the republican line. unfortunately, they have been swinging at every pitch, aiming

for the raft toers and medalin their argument. not what the probe is going to find. i think they are doing themself as disservice. >> you can't separate the money from this investigation. there is two strategies mueller has, follow the money, follow the lies. that's where he's gone. we know little about his investigation except nothing from mueller's shop. ist -- it's been very closed. there are 20 or so lawyers that have a good look what mueller is doing and if you talk to the lawyers, they understand this reached a point of real parol for the quiunited states and th president knows the parol. >> we need to zoom out and tell the big picture story. >> bannon uses base.

there are people you will talk to who believe in donald trump that will tell you look, wherever this goes, if somebody in his family is is ndicted, if there is an obstruction, he may go to his base and stay in office by appealing to that base, whipping the country up and he certainly is the kind of person that thinks he might be able to. that's an awful lot of speculation and looking ahead. not me saying it but people who know trump that believe that that's the way he is going. >> instead of saying fake fbi. >> if mueller is still standing and so far mueller is standing and doesn't look like trump despite his efforts has been able to cut him off at the knees and he's not going to be able to. if mueller is still standing and comes after him in the convincing way, forces pardons or a report that leads the congress to look at action, trump is betting no matter what happens, he can survive this by

this being a part of this cold civil war and fanning the flames of that base. >> to our panel, thank you so much, jackie, noah, carl, great to see you-all. after a break here, more on this topic with a lawmaker whose having to reckon with it every day. there are practical implications to the alternative universes of information. we'll talk about it with a congressman right after this. tht vacation when you can squeeze one in between friday and monday at hilton? there's a vacation at the end of every week. whatever type of weekender you are, don't let another weekend pass you by. get the lowest price when you book at hilton.com

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news conversations what would happen if trump were to fire robert mueller. i can't count how many discussions there have been but we know it actually happened back in june. president trump tried to fire mueller, moved to do it and stopped by don mcgahn. all of those conversations turned out it already happened and none of us knew it. it makes you wonder how many other secrets are being kept and how much else mueller knows that we don't know yet. when that "new york times" story came out on thursday saying trump ordered mueller's firing, i wondered what was sean hannity saying back in june? could have influenced president trump? was he fearing on fox? we went back and looked. >> this special counsel mueller needs to be shut down immediately and mueller and rod rosenstein recused themselves, resigned immediately. >> he should recuse himself. he's incapable of carrying a

fair and inpartial mpartial investigation. mueller needs to end it now. >> that was back in june. it's been similar rhetoric, not just in june but vent recently g from republican lawmakers. i want to know how that affects things on capitol hill. joining me say democratic congressman member of the counter intelligence and ranking member of the subcommittee on the cia. i wonder, congressman, how it affects how you do business on capitol hill when you have colleagues trying to undermine and tear down the investigation. >> the president doesn't have to fire mueller. in directly, we see the credibility under attack every day on the house intelligence committee by republicans and house judiciary committee. what i hear from colleagues is words that are parroted by sean hannity. the efforts to perpetuate

conspiracy theories and go after somebody who received the bronze star and serve in vietnam and awarded the purple heart, appointed by a republican president. you have to stoop low to discredit mueller but they are willing to do it. the effect is they are going to also, the collateral damage will be thefe fekeffect on law enfort and the case is diminished. >> you see the fox news effect in action because you hear similar comments from television hosts and lawmakers. here is the bigger point and i wonder how you view this as a lawmaker yourself. when we have these two alternative universes of information, these alternative realities, some americans consuming reporting from "the new york times" and cnn, others consuming rush limbaugh and sean hannity, what is thefect effec

the country? is it doing damage? >> the feedback, thefect on l e the moral and the duty to protect the ballot box is also looming because we have an election coming up in november of this year. we have the presidential election in 2020 and we've done nothing to secure our country from another hacking like that occurred from russia. it's not disputed that russia attacked us but we have put in zero reforms to fix that and i'm afraid that that's part of the republican effort to try to protect the president. they are unwilling to do anything to protect the next electi election. >> that's probably the biggest part of the story. we know there was this russia interference and not a lot of steps to take action against it. there were sanctions, however, weren't there? >> yeah and tomorrow is the deadline for the president to impose them. the congress overwhelmingly voted to put sanctions in place against russia and its military

and intelligence officials however the president delayed and delayed and delayed. the final deadline is tomorrow. when people ask what evidence is out there aside from the indictments that we've seen and the contacts they failed to disclose, i think the president's unwillingness to impose sanctions against russia shows he feels like he owes then something because he did something for them. >> what about silicon valley's role in this. you represent part of california out there. there is talk about how facebook and twitter were used to spread russian propaganda before election day and now ventl rece there is talk memes, some of that was spread but russian bots, as well. are we getting enough information? >> that's right. when your hashtag is supported, you have to ask whether you're doing the bidding of the president or poforeign adversar.

what we've called upon now that we know this can occur, they have a responsibility to work with the fbi and congress to make sure their platforms aren't weaponized. what are they willing to do going forward and there is a responsibility on congress to put in place 'tis clodisclosure requirements and duty to report to the fbi if they see this activity before law enforcement does. >> you and your colleagues expect a lot of money from silicon valley and donations from billionaires and millionaires of these companies. are you willing to take on donors? >> there is nothing more important than the sacredness of the ballot box. you have to. these people employ a lot of constituents of mine and most don't want to see their platforms used by russian bots or russian intelligence services. >> thanks for being here. >> my pleasure. >> after the break, we'll fact

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president's joy. when jay-z criticized the president, jones pushed back and said the president is toting back the black unemployment rate. >> he's saying look, i'm dropping black unemployment. black people are doing well under my administration. does he have a point that maybe the democrats are giving good lip service and maybe no jobs and say terrible things but put money in our pocket. does that make him a good leader? >> no it's not about money at the end of the day. money doesn't equate to happiness. you're missing the whole point. >> president trump either saw that interview on cnn or saw fox talking about it this morning because he reacted to jay-z with a point. somebody please inform jay-z because of my policies, black unemployment is the lowest ever. there is a fact check we should

do but let's talk about the back and forth with van jones and the host of the twice a month van jones show. is this the best press you could have asked for for your show? >> i personally asked donald trump to write that tweet. i wrote it for him. [ laughter ] >> listen, it's sad because we actually literally were discussing the black unemployment rate and continuing a lot of trends have been going on anyway, black unemployment is good. should we get credit for it? jay-z said something you don't hear from a lot of billionaires, it's not about money but respect. we had a powerful moment. trump missed the whole point and actually walked right back into the trap. now it's trending globally, you know, jay-z's response of look, it's great p.r. for the show but bad for the country when you have a president who wants to lecture an african american rapper about african american issues with bad facts and no

information about the show. >> let's put on the screen the chart that shows what you are describing, the gradually declining unemployment rate involving white and blacks. we can show from 2011 to 2017. let me see if we can put that other chart on screen. it is a gradual steady decline. here we see now it is record low but been declining for six or seven years and i think that raises the question of how much credit to give president trump. given that it was obama's policies that led to that gradual decline. >> look, i am happy to give president trump credit for not screwing it up. i mean, he could have come in and done stuff that reversed that trend and done terrible things and he didn't. so there was a bull market under obama. he kept that going. unemployment was going down. he kept that going. great. you're not listening to the

voices of the black community that say that's not enough to make up for s-hole countries or make up for insulting black football players, saying our communities are terrible. like just because we're making progress continuing increate mental progress, that doesn't give you the right to be disrespectful and that's what jay-z was trying to say. >> the president has been effect to get folks to focus on the economy to say i deserve credit for the dow being at a record high. i don't recall president obama asking for as much credit when the market was rising for several years before trump was elected. there is a difference in the rhetoric. >> the emotional meeting around the economy. president obama inherited a house on fire. two wars and basically the great depression and he was able to save the auto industry, turn that around, pass health care, et cetera. trump for all his rhetoric inherited a pretty healthy economy that had been growing

for years, a stock market that was growing for years and didn't screw it up and helping it to move forward. that's great. it is unfortunate. i want to say one thing about jay-z, sean jay-z carter ka eern our air last night and did the opposite of trump. he came on. he was confessional. he was vulnerable. he talked about mistakes he made in his marriage. he talked about challenges as a dad. he was so human and so vulnerable and hip-hop is usually all acquisition and boasting. he comes on confessional and then the politicians are all accusation and boasting and donald trump and no confession from donald trump. if you want to listen what jay-z says, follow mr. jay-z's model. he's willing to grow in public. if you do the same thing, america would be better off. >> it's unimaginable to think about president trump talking about his marriage the way jay-z did talking about challenges

with beyonce and going through the pain. >> three marriages. i asked jay-z, i said why did you fight for this marriage? these celebrity marriages happen all the time, break up, no big deal. he said she's my soul mate and he talked about how hard it was. he said i had to get down to the mattress and hear her pain but it was worth it. it was beautiful. you very rarely hear men talk that way about fighting for their marriages. if you talk about something, donald trump, talk about that. talk about this guy is growing no public and changing hip hip from acquisition to confession and you missed the point because you're worried about your ego. >> this reminds me of what every journalist says when a reader replies before reading the store. read the story. watch the full interview. don't just watch the clip that aired on fox. i want to explain this other

chart. to me i hope this is the story that will get focused on. the red line is the unemployment rate among whites. the blue line -- i messed it up. the red line is the higher unemployment rate among african americans. the blue line is the unemployment rate among whites in the united states and what you see across the decades, the black unemployment rate has always been higher and remained higher. to me, that is an important story i would love to see the president engage on. instead, he's engaging with jay-z trying to celebrate the gradual decline but it's that persistent gap that's the bigger story. >> and had the white community experienced black levels of unemployment, we would call that the great depression. what is normal now for the after condition american community would be considered a catastrophe, a world shaking catastrophe for the white community. why do we accept that? to donald trump's point, this

have been republicans like jack kemp who took black poverty and the lack of opportunity and engaged with the black community, had good policies, had good relationships. trump is not one of them. trump has never shown up for any of these real discussions that happened in the community all the time. he could. he should. i hope he will. jared kushner has been talking about criminal justice reform. that's a key part of getting out those numbers better than the community. he asked somebody close to him getting issues, i hope donald trump, if he wants to talk about this stuff, don't just talk the talk, walk the walk. let's be real about it. in the meantime, jay-z is setting a much better example for america than donald trump. >> can you tell us who is on the next van jones' show? >> i can't tell you the day but it's going to be good. >> i heard rumors. >> there is rumors. >> great to see you. >> thank you. >> tanks for coming over. we'll see if the president keeps tweeting about this topic. let's turn to the topic of

immigration, another giant story this week. an immigration plan presented that seemed to be dead on arrival and sign up for the nightly newsletter on reliablesources.com. the day's media, news, recapped every night. we'll be back with amy goodman talking immigration after this.

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breaking news, the left and right agree on something. partisan outlets blasted president trump's immigration proposal a few days ago. breitbart labeled the president amnesty don again calling this an immigration shock. meanwhile, hear are other headlines you'll see here. sites talking about the wall of opposition to the plan and dead on arrival, et cetera, et cetera. there is a lot of attention on this subject of immigration but i wonder if there is something missing from the conversation if we're not hearing the voice of the people affected often

enough. let's talk about that with amy goodman, the host and executive producer of democracy now. one of the reasons why your program stands out is that i think you try to talk to protesters and immigrants and people that are affected by government policies. when you watch other news coverage, do you think we're missing the immigrant story, the voices of daca recipients. >> absolutely. that's critical following the basic rules of good journalism. go to where the silence is and it's often quite loud but the corporate media does not convey these voices. like going to the orange county detention center right now where robbie is in detention. he was in florida. he's one of the immigrant rights leaders in new york who is just detained by i.c.e. and as an ambulance took him away, two new york city council members were arrested trying to protest his detention. >> that was a local news story. it did get attention. >> it's not local. it's national because what we're

seeing right now is the trump administration rounding up immigrant rights leader. i was just with sandra lopez who is in carbon dale, colorado in the church there. that's another big story. yo u have people you have peopl churches. when she was named one of the most important time 100 people, she was taking refuge in the church in denver. we are seeing something frightening now. right now, the washington state, one of the leading immigrant rights activist is in fear of deportation and not just individuals, these are leaders. that inspires fear in the communities of millions of people. that does not make them safer

and certainly doesn't make us safer. >> it's harder to cover folks that are literally having to seek sanctuary and may not be able to go and be interviewed. >> very easy to go to any of the people in sanctuaries. >> go there, okay. >> absolutely. cnns trucks. >> i see immigration debates on television and we see representatives of immigrant communities. personally what i think are missing time is the voices of ordinary people working jobs and living in the shadows. >> i completely agree with you because that is the power of the media. i mean, we know our family and friends but the way we learn about the rest of the world and people outside of our co communities is through the media and there is nothing more powerful when you hear young child or robbie, again, we're talking about people who lived here for decades and you hear

them telling their stories and talking about their families. >> yet, there were millions of deportations under the obama administration. >> there were. you're absolutely correct. there is an intensifications but you're right, president obama deported more people than all presidents before him combined and that laid the groundwork for this intensification we're seeing from trump and now even you see politicians, the country's mayors are threatened by the head of the department of homeland security. you can call it nielsen readings, a different kind raiding threatening mass deportations talking about arresting mayors and public officials who enforce sanctuary cities saying they are not going to have their police cooperate with i.c.e. agents. they don't see that as the american way. >> the state of the union coming up on tuesday.

you've been interested in some of the organizing efforts to sort of react or oppose the state of the union. >> that's very interesting because we seen the whole me, too, movement, the golden globes and plus ones women who have been abused taken by other actresses standing up for women's rights. on the state of the union night you have people like the congress member from new york who will be taking amy, an immigrant rights lawyer and her husband is in detention in orange county. we may see madu from washington state coming as a plus one, as well. immigrant rights leaders accompanying congress members as congress members wrote a letter to the trump administration saying stop rounding up immigrant rights activists. stop targeting independent immigrant rights activists. >> certainly using the state of the union has a stage, it's a way to get more attention to get

media attention on this issue. >> it shows the life of president trump talking about family values when these families are ripped apart and millions of people fear their families will be, too. >> he would say he's prioritizing families here. >> we already know what president trump said. he talked about s-hole countries like africa, which is a continent, el salvador, haiti. he's made clear who he wants in this country. he didn't say we don't want anyone here. he said i wish more immigrants would come from norway. they said why would we come to the united states when we have free health care and free public education. >> thanks for being here. a shoutout to the role of journalism from two unexpected corners. (vo) dogs have evolved,

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that's what a man in michigan allegedly told a cnn employee in one of several threatening phone calls to the headquarters of this network. this happened back on january 9th and 10th, a series of phone calls, some including threats. the man was arrested and has since been charged in u.s. district court. cnn said it was in touch with local and federal law enforcement officials throughout and has taken, quote, all necessary measures, to ensure the safety of employees at cnn. think about that, invoking the term fake news. when you hear about these defenses of journalism this week, defenses sometimes coming from unexpected corners of the world. pope francis, for example, calling for support of the dignity of journalism. the pope denounced fake news and disinformation in his annual social communications message. he even took to twitter to advocate for what he called a journalism of peace, a journalism for people, by people. also this week, the powerful

effects of local reporting were on display. what began as an "indianapolis star" investigation into usa gymnastics abuses in 2016, culminated in the downfall of usa gymnastics doctor sentenced wednesday for up to 175 years in prison for sexually assaulting over 140 young women. the prosecutor in the case praised the indy star journalist who set the investigation into motion as well as the first woman to make contact with the reporters. >> we as a society need investigative journalists more than ever. what finally started this reckoning and ended this decades-long cycle of abuse was investigative reporting. >> it is the best of times for some journalists, for investigative journalism, shedding light in dark places. at the same time we have to be aware of the darkness that

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