the bag. >> could we get quiet bags instead. >> and licking your fingers is cool? >> if i am at home. >> cnn, new yorks. >> just to make the point. mmm. oh, we didn't plan this. here you go anderson. good evening, a big night of breaking news. we begin right now keeping them honest. democratic rebuttal to devin nunes' memo is on the president's desk. has until saturday to decide which to make public. listen to what press secretary sarah sanders said today about how this would happen. >> the president has seen the

memo. met with the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein within the last hour to discuss the differences between the two memos. and we are under going the same process as we did with the previous memo. we are in the middle of the process. >> that is what she said. keeping them honest, it is hard to say exactly how this memo claims to rebut the one that president trump says after reading it. it is hard to know exactly what process there really was in the release of the nunes memo perhaps only the appearance of it. the president himself said he wants the nunes memo out before he even seen it. he said it on camera. >> don't worry. 100%. >> can you imagine?

>> the president was always boasting to friends in the days surround him getting the memo to congress that it would according to two sources accept bias. and as the "washington post" reported as he learned, he was determined sight unseen that it had to come out. i want to play you part of the sarah sanders sound again. >> we are under going the exact same process that we did with the previous memo in which it will go through a full and thorough legal and national security review. >> suggesting of course that the white house would listen carefully and take the counsel of the relevant national security agencies. accept it doesn't this is what the fbi director chris wray had

to say about the memo. grave concerns that fundamentally impact the memo's accuracy. the memo was released anyway. keeping them honest, not clear how much of a process there was last time. the democratic memo release, it seems it would be the first. if the memo is not released, the question would be asked is that too a forgone conclusion. let's go to pamela brown at the white house. >> reporter: as you recall last week the white house was saying they wanted to release the memo for transparency. general kelly would not commit. he also wouldn't say one way or another whether there would be redactions. he was asked by a reporter on

capitol hill whether he was leaning towards releasing it even just a little. and this is what he said. >> i would say, i mean, this is a different memo from the first one, lengthier, and it is different. so not leaning towards it. it will be done in a responsible way. but again, where the first one was clean, relative to sources and methods, my initial cut is this one is a lot less clean. but at the end of it all, it will be guys like rod rosenstein and chris wray from the fbi giving the president a recommendation on it. >> reporter: for comparison, the nunes memo was 3.5 pages. the democrat memo was ten pages. and today, rod rosenstein was here at the white house meeting

with chief kelly, the chief of staff kelly, and white house counsel. the president said you tell me, but today rosenstein was here and he will weigh in with any redactions. those recommendations are expected to be provided by the white house on thursday from there we are told the president will be briefed and will make a final decision on whether or not it supports the releasing of the memo. >> it is interesting to hear general kelly say it is up to chris wray and rod rosenstein. they both met with general kelly asking him not to release the memo. >> reporter: that's right. and chris wray made a big statement to the public when he said releasing the nunes memo presented quote grave concerns

yet the white house went ahead and released the memo. in terms of redactions and them weighing, the republicans on capitol hill say that chris wray did weigh in and changes made to the republican's memo before it came to the white house. and that is why the white house didn't make redactions. interesting to see how this plays out and what recommendations if any is made. >> thanks very much. joining us now congresswoman jackie spear of california. do you think the president is going to allow the memo to be released. >> we have sent our memo to chris wray and rod rosenstein and so their edits have been made. the fact that the president now -- >> did they have edits to the memo? >> i haven't received it back yet, but whatever edits they

were going to make we were going to stand by them. if he is going to stand by the attorney general and the fbi director then we should be good. let me suggest that what will happen is the president will probably release the memo. he will redact it heavily because he doines not want to he the book report that was basically the republican proposal of three pages compared to what is the equivalent of a ten page post grad dissertation that is fully functional in terms of footnotes and that is very in-depth. so i would be surprised if we see our memo released in a manner that is going to be helpful to the american public. >> do you think it would be changed it a degree that would make it less impactful from your perspective? without a doubt that is the

intention. they don't want to overshadow the memo that was put out by the republicans. our memo is very, very in depth and very dense actually. it took me a good 25 minutes to read it and fully comprehend it. >> do you believe there are concerns about sources and methods in the democratic memo? >> if there are, and the fbi and the department of justice redacts it, we will stand strong and right by them in terms of not criticizing that. we never wanted the memo released in the first place. we never wanted sources and methods to be exposed. and i think that that's one of the great dangers of moving down this path. it is not good for our country. you know, we rely heavily on sources around the world in other countries and many of our allies. they are going to loath to

participate with us, offer us intelligence if they think they are going to be subject to this kind of outing. >> if the democratic memo is released by the president and there are redactions, will it be clear to the public, to you and other committee there are sources about the fact that they did come from the fbi or rod rosenstein or they were something from national security inside the white house itself. >> yes, we have submitted ourselves to the doj and the fbi. they have returned it to us with any redactions they want. any additional ones will clearly come from the white house. >> i want to turn to a late breaking story. president trump says he wants a military parade in washington. he was inspired by the bastille day he attended in france.

the marching orders were i want a parade like the one in france. what is your reaction to that idea? >> i was stunned by it. we have a napoleon in the making and i believe we have so many issues around the world in terms of preparing for wars that are ongoing. and wars that may be, you know, in the offing because of what is happening in north korea that i would say that it is really a waste of money. and i think everyone should be offended by his need to always be showing. he is truly napoleon-like. >> do you think that parade is more about him, he would argue or other republicans who support the idea saying it is a way to honor our troops and showing the country's pride in them.

>> any of those military parades that i have seen in the past, it is all about you know, authoritarian regimes with maybe the exception of france. but it is not our style. it is not the way we do business and i really object to it. and i think it is going to cost a lot of money. so what is really in it for the american people. i appreciate your time. i want to bring in general mark hurtling. what went through your mind. >> i had to smile. it is an interesting request from the president to his military. >> smile, happy smile? or mystified smile? >> bemused smile. i will be honest with you, i will state my bias up front. i dislike parades. from a factual basis, this is going to cost a lot of money.

a whole bunch of rehearsals. the kind of parades that president trump envisions asphalts are different than they hold in red square or teaiena men square. you have to have rehearsals for that. so i think this is, you know, i was thinking about what the chairman how he might have responded to this. i think initially, he probably rolled his eyes. i won't speak for general. military will do whatever the commander in chief asks them to do. but it is not a good idea for our military in my humble opinion. >> you have to rehearse a lot

for them. you have to walk a lot for them. you have to shine your equipment. you are not going to pull a tank and bring it to washington and having it rolled down the street. you have to fix it up. that is what they do in china, in russia and in france to a lesser degree. there will be a lot of effort, a lot of resources placed on this during a time when the military is doing a lot of other things. across the board, my take and i think i speak for a great majority of military members, we don't like parades. >> do you think the idea of this says something about the president himself? do you think it is more about him than it is about the troops? >> well, i have my thoughts on that, anderson, and i won't say what they are, but here is what i will tell you, it is not in the culture of the united states military. that is not who we are from our founding fathers.

the military were those who came together and protected our democracy. not an overt effort to show how tough you are. we do the kind of things we need to do and there shouldn't be in my view a whole lot of chest thumping and these overt means of showing how tough for you. that is for tin horned democracies. if the president wants a parade, i am sure the military is trying to put one together. i am glad i am not wearing a uniform right now. >> thanks. coming up next, the verbal hand grenade. quote some would say they were too lazy to get off their asses. saying don't talk to special counsel mueller.

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dor rit the president appears to be heading towards a showdown. he says without a deal, he is okay ut shuing the government down. meantime his chief of staff john kelly added fuel with these remarks on dreamers. there are 690,000 official daca registrants and the president sent over what amounts to be two and a halftimes that number to 1.8 million. the difference is the people that some would say were too afraid were sign up, others would say too lazy to get off their asses but they didn't sign up. jim acosta joins us now. >> reporter: this appears to be one of a long line of offensive

comments coming out of the white house. the president has said in the past we love the dreamers. if you listen to his chief of staff, it doesn't sound like he loves the dreamers. here is how it played out in the briefing room when i pressed on the comments. isn't that a wildly offensive comment about these undocumented immigrants. >> the only person that has offered a solution is this administration. the president has been a champion in giving 1.8 million daca recipient a pathway to citizenship. and laid out a plan. i think it is hard to argue with that. >> on the surface to that. isn't it an offensive comment on

the surface. >> i think that is something that you would have to decide for yourself. >> reporter: as you can see she didn't answer the question. dreamers who were brought to this company through no fault of their own have been working their butts off, working their asses off to be blunt. >> general kelly was pressed late tonight on his comments what is he saying? is he backtracking. >> reporter: new reporting from our colleagues the house minority whip confronted general kelly about these comments that he made about the dreamers being too lazy to get off their asses.

and general kelly did not back down. i have got to say, some of them, talking about the dreamers should have gotten off the couch and signed up. he toned down the language a little bit, the thrust of his comments remains. he is not backing off of his comments that some of these dreamers were too lazy to sign up for protection from deportation. >> i appreciate that. two views on that. cortez, and maria cardonia. >> it under scores the offensive language that general kelly sees immigrants. what is so disgusting about this

is that general kelly is a leader in the military, immigrants and i bet you dreamers served under him. and for him to come out and say, come out and call them lazy and for him that is a reason that almost half of them did not come out to sign up for daca. perhaps they foresaw that a xenophobic administration were afraid to turn in their information and if he knew any of them which i am sure he doesn't. if he respected them enough to understand where they were coming from which he clearly doesn't he would understand why the numbers are where they are. it under scores how he feels about it, how his boss feels about it. they see us all as lazy leaches, criminals and rapist and something that this society

should be afraid of and it is disgusting. >> i am glad that you mentioned his military command. i had a chance to spend an hour with me and others. he talked at length about how the marine corps is the service of choice for hispanics and how proud he was about that service and ably and heroically. i wish he would have chosen his words better, but what is more important in having phrased something poorly is the policy. >> you don't think it is important if the person who is executing the policy thinks that more than 700,000 people are lazy? isn't it the typical stereotype, a slur that someone would use? >> not at all. >> steve, of course it is. you have to stop being an

apologitist. >> the way you and people on the left throw around bigotry has lost meaning anymore. the president is not a bigot, general kelly is not a bigot. >> why are they acting like one? >> they are trying to find a solution for these young people. the president took what was 700,000 daca recipients and said we are going to more than double that. >> isn't it ignorant to just label 700,000 people either frightened or lazy. >> the 700,000 were the ones who did sign up why didn't the rest not sign up, i don't know. >> isn't it ignorant to label one point -- >> i wish he would have phrased it better. >> why? >> what is way more important isn't necessarily that you used

a throw-away line about them. >> throw-away line, wow. >> and you are allowing them protective status and citizenship in the united states. >> it is not throw-away. >> again, we can't major in the minors. what is important here? what is important is let's get these daca recipients protected. and do it the right way. president obama created this mess. >> he was not the one to rescind the protections that they had. not the one to put in a poison pill for a real deal that is on the table that includes citizenship plus border security. not the one that put dreamers in harm's way. that was all president trump's doing. he is making it worse by him and his chief of staff calling them lazy and intimating that they

are all ms-13 gang members. it is ridiculous. >> nobody saying they are criminals, and if they are criminals -- americans have dreams too. >> they are not dreamers. they are doers because they have done nothing but give to this society their best years, their best work and their best mind and their best -- >> you are so unhinged about this president is that you can't see this is the president who wants to protect them making it permanent in law. >> the president says he loves dreamers, do you think general kelly loves dreamers? because it doesn't sound like it. >> given the conversations and meetings that i had with him yesterday, yes, i think he absolutely does. i think we can show heart and

toughness. showing heart to the recipients who didn't break our laws and showing toughness by getting dangerous immigrants out of his country. that is a system, that is a compromise that makes sense and don't take my word for it. 72% of the american people per cbs news polls agree with him. you can't get 72% of people in thighs divided time to agree on anything. >> 90% of americans agree that dreamers should be protected. so let's work on a solution that will actually get dreamers protected without putting in poison pills that the president knows will make it go anyway. maria cardona and steve cortez. what the president said, did what he said, and threaten to under mind any compromise. t.

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more breaking news tonight. we have been talking about dreamers but president trump took a headlong plunge into the

immigration page. here he is this afternoon. >> if we don't get rid of these loopholes where killers are allowed to come into our country and continue to kill. there are many gang members that we don't mention. if we don't change it, we will do a shutdown and it is worth it for our country. i would love to see a shutdown if we don't get this stuff taken care of. >> back in january, calling the immigration compromise a bill of love. joining us now is chief correspondent dana bash, david gergen and jack kingston. davis, is this an important strategy? >> it is bad for the country. when you are on the brink of shutting down the government, they get into the process and they are constructive. they work behind the scenes or in front of the process.

but he is threatening them and in effect he is throwing down. giving me what i want, no changes or we are going to shut down the government. >> part of what donald trump is about is shaking up the town and going about things in an unconventional way and david is right, most presidents have gone in there and said okay, guys, i am going to be the mature adult. instead he is saying you guys don't get it done, and i am not afraid of the shutdown. that puts more pressure on them saying he really means it. let's get this done. the legislative branch is the lead on this thing. >> except what the president said today doesn't reflect the reality of what happened on capitol hill today. and will probably happen again tomorrow which is the whole notion of immigration of the

dreamers, that whole debate has been separated from the idea of a government shutting down. the house of representatives passed a bill that will keep the government open through march 23rd. you know, is it possible that something happens and that whole thing falls apart and the government does shut down? sure. it seems they are separate and what the president was doing, you would call it shaking the trees. other people would call it taking what is happening actually in good faith as we speak to capitol hill and turning it on its head. >> there was a senior gop source that brushed off what the president said. saying it is trumping trump i doubt that we will see a shutdown. >> if you go by what dana has

been reporting on, it looks like two different bills. one bill on spending. and the senate finding a solution. and shove it on the house to pass and scare the house into doing that. but you have a bipartisan bill that way. and that will prevent a shutdown, and on that basis, everybody loses a lot of leverage and it may well be the dreamers bill will then die. the president keeps saying, i insist on, you work on a bipartisan agreement on my bill. either i get my bill, my bill or the highway. >> that is also what president obama said to us in 2013. i am not going to let you defund obamacare and not let you modify. and we as republicans were the ones to say you are right, as the president, you have the

bully pulpit. regular appropriation bill and the other is a supplemental bill that adds to current spending and the third one is continuing resolution. and if you don't do one of those three, you shut down the government. it is not as if most members saying we are going to do continue resolution, hopefully by then we will have something done. actually, i think it will happen by friday that maybe they will have a top line and come to agreement on the debt ceiling, on health care issues and on a disaster bill and there is a tax extender. >> if this happens, the good news is this whole guard rail to guard rail, two-week extension, two-week extension should be stopped for a couple of years. if that happens. that is separate from the

question of the dreamers, they could be stuck, they could be stranded. >> they could. the thing is in order in the senate, the majority leader made a promise public promise that he would start debate on february 8 which is thursday. my understanding is that that is still the plan, open senate debate. probably won't start until next week and then there will be pressure on republicans and democrats and the president as they debate to do something old fashion which is come up with a bill. >> and the president may veto the bill. >> i think if immigration bill free standing or if it is tied into appropriation, if it gets through the house he will sign it. and i think most house members won't vote for it unless he sig

signs it. he said i will go whatever you all decide and i will take the heat. we will see. thanks for the conversation. coming up, the white house says the president was joking when he said democrats weren't enthusiastic enough about his state of the union speech. we will hear from democratic congressman. his take on what the president should do in the mueller investigation and whether he plans to run for president. interview with chris cuomo coming up ahead. ♪ a complete multivitamin specially formulated with key nutrients plus vitamin d for bone health support. your one a day is showing.

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like complimentary wi-fi and drinks. a savings up to $300 when you book now, during the celebrity cruises sail beyond event. as you know, the president says democrats didn't cheer him enough at his state of the union speech don't want america to do well. and sarah sanders says he was clearly joking. not landing well with democrats and at least one republican. here is what jeff flake said on the floor today. >> mr. president, words matter. have we arrived at such a place of numb acceptance when a president of the united states says those who choose no the to stand are guilty of treason?

nor the power that the words of a president carry. i have seen the president's most ardent defenders use the comments were meant as a joke. but treason is not a punch line mr. president. >> ted lieu tweeted this. i served on active duty in the military to give people the right to clap when the president speaks or not to clap to stand or to sit. congressman lieu joins me now. i am wondering why you felt the need to react so strongly. the white house is saying the treasonous line was in jest. >> i believe this is the same white house that said donald trump doesn't want a government shutdown when he clearly said he

wants one. i served on active duty in the military because i love our country. we don't force people to cheer for their president. we let people disagree with their president without fear of retribution and that is what makes america great. >> your democrat and fellow veteran tammy duckworth also criticized the remark saying we don't live in a dictatorship not to mindlessly cater to the womens of a cadet bone spurs and clap when he demands i clap. >> i believe she had it exactly right. she served in combat and quite disappointing for donald trump who has never been in the military to lecture military veterans of congress about what is treason and what is not treason and keep in mind, a lot of the things that president

does seems to be based on his own ego. he wants this big military parade which is a waste of money for one man's ego. that is inappropriate and continues to show that donald trump is not fit for office. >> the president supporters might say this is a way to honor veterans and a way for veterans to have a day to focus on them and show off their might and marching ability and have pride in the service members. >> well we already do have veteran's day, also memorial day. to have this big military parade in washington d.c., this reminds people of other countries. think of north korea and russia.

>> when the white house says it is tongue in cheek that the president was joking, you don't buy that. >> absolutely not. i will believe it when the president says he was joking or tweets or recalls what he says and for now i take him at his word and i don't think the white house should be around trying to spin what the president has been saying and if you look at the white house they have to keep backtracking on what the president has to say. >> president trump touted his state of the union address as one of unity just one week later here we are with another potential shutdown looming. does language like that make it more difficult to work with the white house? >> absolutely. and keep in mind that no president should ever be urging a shutdown. should never say he wants a shutdown. if there is a shutdown that means he has failed. i don't know why he is going

around saying he wants a shutdown. nobody else in congress wants a shutdown. the house republican leadership rejected him and passed a bill that has nothing to do with what he wanted. >> thank you for your time. joe biden weighing in and we will hear what he has to say next. there are two types of people in the world. those who fear the future... and those who embrace it. the future is for the unafraid. ♪ ♪ the future is for the unafraid. yes! ours is still buffering. what's happening? you're experiencing a network delay. you both need to be watching that on the iphone with verizon. the best streaming network.

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the president's lawyers are advising him not to answer questions from special counsel robert mueller according to reporting in "the new york times." there's someone who agrees with that advice. former vice president joe biden. biden sat down for an extended interview with chris cuomo today. we're going to play most of it in the next hour. first just watch this exchange. >> you think he should sit down with the special counsel? >> if i were the president's lawyer, i would probably tell him not to sit down with the

special counsel. >> why? >> because -- >> then they subpoena you and you wind up in front of a grand jury without a lawyer. >> yeah, and if you -- you're in a situation where the president has some difficulty with precision. >> that is one of the most subtle things i've ever heard you say, mr. biden. >> and one of the things that i would worry about if i were his lawyer is him saying something that was simply not true without him even planning to be -- to be disingenuous. >> you think he has that little control over whether he tells the truth or not? >> i just marvel at some of the things he says and does. >> joining me now is paul begala, carrie cordero, and david axelrod. it's interesting to hear the former vice president say this. do you think it's possibly just a negotiating tactic on the part of robert mueller's attorneys and the president that -- excuse me -- the president's attorneys and the president that they're

sort of releasing this information of, oh, we're telling him not to, that it's just kind of a negotiation -- >> i think it's a trial balloon on the part of the trump team to see, well, what if we just stiff mr. mueller and his investigators and don't cooperate at all? will people freak out? ultimately, i think he's going to wind up taking the fifth because the facts are not his friend. he can't. i disagree slightly with vice president biden at my peril. it's not just that the president says outrageous things or his fidelity to the facts are slippery, it's the facts are not his friend. he's not going to testify because he can't without incriminating himself. >> i don't think his lawyers are going to want it to get to where the president of the united states is taking the fifth, right against self-incrimination, in front of a grand jury in the district of columbia. i do think they will try to keep that from happening. on the other hand, lately they've been trying to negotiate an interview between the special

counsel's office and the president, and i do think some of their public releases reporting that they have spoken to reporters about regarding executive privilege, maybe trying to say that they're not going to submit him to an interview -- i think they're trying to delay his interview with the special counsel's office. so to the extent that they know that it's not in his interest to speak soon, they know that the way that he is, it might be difficult for him to sit through an interview. and so i think part of what they're doing is trying to delay that interview by publicly floating ideas about executive privilege, by maybe suggesting to the special counsel's office that he's not going to sit for an interview, and that buys them more time. >> david, it's interesting to hear former vice president biden -- you know, can republicans now say, look, even a staunch democrat like joe biden would advise president trump not to testify? >> well, he was asked if he were the president's lawyers what would he say. and i think he answered the question like a lawyer or as a

lawyer. and if you're thinking of it from their standpoint, for all the reasons that have been stated, there's got to be a great deal of trepidation about the prospect of this president sitting down in front of those prosecutors. but, you know, there's a different issue which is the political issue, and that is what is the cost to the president of not sitting down, of not answering these questions? >> do you think there is one? his base certainly won supportive. >> yeah, they would, and i think part of what's been going on in the last few weeks has been to set the groundwork for that potentially so that the case could be made that this wasn't a legitimate investigation. it was politically motivated. there's no reason the president should submit himself to that. and i think his supporters would accept that. the rest of the country, i think, would be troubled by it, however. and, you know, there is a big body of -- you know, the president's been very clear, i

want to sit down. i want to answer these questions. he's also in the past, by the way, said that taking the fifth is tantamount to a guilty plea. so that's embarrassing tape that's sitting out there. but as you know, he's not one who is bound by consistency. so -- >> ore embarrassed by past statements. >> right. i don't think that's his big concern. he'll create a new reality for himself. but this -- i think biden's answer reflects what most lawyers would say. >> paul, i'm wondering what your lesson -- i mean you lived through this with president clinton's what is the message that the president's team should take away from president clinton's experience? >> i think it's an entirely different case. i never once advised bill clinton not to cooperate. >> but he fought this -- >> but not whether he testified. he certainly fought it. he defended himself i think -- >> didn't he go through the courts? >> that was paula jones case. there was a civil lawsuit in

which the supreme court ordered him 9-0 to defend the civil lawsuit, including testifying in a deposition, not full testimony in a court. in the starr case, i can't recall any of the president's lawyers and certainly not any of his other advisers telling him not to -- in fact, not only did bill clinton sit down with ken starr and answer questions about his personal life, he gave blood. he had to give blood to ken starr. this guy, trump, he can't answer a single question, and i think that's probably a better strategy for donald trump because he's guilty. that's the difference. bill clinton, people could argue he certainly had an affair, but he won the case on perjury and obstruction of justice. and i don't think trump can win this case. >> carrie, how long can this play out? how long will mueller's team allow it to play out? >> well, it depends. they'll set some period of time. it sounds from the reporting it's already been a couple months they've been negotiating the interview. so that could go on for maybe some period of a month or two. it really depends on which aspects of their investigation that they want to interview him on and whether they're ready at

this point that they want to conduct the interview. once they are ready, they think their investigation has reached the point they think he's the last person to be interviewed, and they're going to do it, then they can decide if they have to issue a grands jury subpoena if he really isn't going to sit for an interview. and then the grand jury subpoena, if the white house fights over that, that could go on for many months. there have been other presidents who have cooperated with investigators in other ways. president reagan turned over his excerpts from his diaries in the iran-contra issue. president clinton, has you mentioned, coop rated. president george w. bush cooperated in the valerie plame case. >> they only gave him -- i think they gave him an hour. thanks very much. much more of chris cuomo's interview with former vice president joe biden. that's still to come. they covered a lot of ground including whether biden will run in 2020 and how biden's late son beau remains a guiding force in his life.

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in our second hour tonight, a cnn exclusive interview with former vice president potential 2020 presidential candidate joe biden. he takes on president trump directly tonight, and where he believes the president's taking the country. that of course is ahead. we begin, though, with the breaking news that the white house -- two breaking stories. pamela, i understand chief of staff john kelly weighed in on the democratic rebuttal to the nunes russia memo a little earlier. i'm wondering what he said. >> he really left it open-ended today, talking to reporters on capitol hill, anderson. he wouldn't say one way or the other whether the white house would support releasing the