president? >> this is "new day" with chris cuomo and alisyn camerota. >> good morning. welcome to your "new day." it's wednesday, february 7, 8:00 in the east. president trump saying he welcomes another government shutdown if democrats won't tighten immigration laws. the tone is bad, the timing worse. why? well, right now you have bipartisan negotiations going on on capitol hill. the deadline is tomorrow, and both sides say they are making headway. in the house, a short-term spending bill passed last night. senate leaders seem less enthusiastic about that. they want to see if they can get a two-year budget deal done that would have a big boost to military spending. >> as congress wrestles with funding the government, the president wants the pentagon to stage a grand military parade in washington with soldiers marching and tanks rolling. the show would cost millions to pull off. we have more of chris' exclusive

interview with former vice president joe biden. he opens up about his late son beau and gives his thoughts on what 2020 could hold. cnn's abby phillip live at the white house. what's the latest there? >> reporter: good morning, alisyn. it appears the deal is near on a budget agreement. it's the white house causing troubles for negotiators. president trump and chief of staff john kelly making controversial comments yesterday that put a wrench in negotiations. >> if we don't change it, let's have a shutdown. we'll do a shutdown. it's worth it for our country. i'd love to see a shutdown if we don't get this stuff taken care of. >> reporter: president trump calling for another shutdown if democrats don't agree to his immigration demands. despite the fact that at the same time senate negotiators were touting bipartisan progress on a budget deal? >> i'm optimistic that very soon we'll be able to reach an agreement.

>> we are closer to an agreement than we have ever been. >> reporter: senate negotiators have separated the budget from immigration entirely. a long-time republican goal. the current deal includes an increase in defense spending alongside additional domestic spending the democrats have been calling for. press secretary sarah sanders left to clean up the president's remarks. >> i don't think that we expect the budget deal to include specifics on the immigration reform, but we want to get a deal on that. as we've said, we don't want to hold the government hostage over these items. >> late tuesday, senator lindsey graham also indicating the senate may be making progress on immigration. >> i felt bad yesterday. i feel better today. i think we've got a way forward that seems to be fair to everybody. we're back in the ball game now. >> reporter: this effort coming amid backlash over these remarks from the president's chief of staff about undocumented immigrants who did not sign up for president obama's dreamer program, but would be given a potential path to citizen ship over the administration's

proposal. >> the difference between 690 and 1.8 million were the people that, some would say were too afraid to sign up, others that were too lazy to get off their asses. >> this is an offensive comment on its surface. >> you'd have to decide that for yourself. >> reporter: kelly doubling down after steny hoyer pushed back on his remarks. kelly also telling reporters that the president is not relear leaning one way or another over the surveillance memo. >> this is a different memo than the first one. it's lengthier. it's different. it will be done in a responsible way. but again where the first one was very clean relative to sources and methods, this is a lot less clean. >> reporter: kelly adding that ultimately the president is waiting for a recommendation from the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein and fbi head

christopher wrai even though he ignored their concerns about the republican memo last week. the back and forth coming after cnn learns that president trump remains eager to speak with robert mueller's team despite concerns from his lawyers. the president is also eager to hold a grand military parade in washington after praising france's bastille day celebration last year. >> one of the greatest parades i've ever seen. >> reporter: the pentagon stresses that the planning process is in its infancy. alisyn, about that parade, it wouldn't exactly be the first time something like that has happened in washington. the last time was in 1991 after the gulf car, but it's worth noting these parades are not cheap. they cost about $8 million. that comes at an awkward time for president trump. they're in the middle of these budget negotiations. this poses a political and economic challenge for his plans to get his wish for a military parade down pennsylvania avenue. >> for sure, abby.

the last one cost $8 million and that was i think 1991. so who knows what the budget would be. thank you very much for all that reporting. join us house minority whip steny hoyer. good morning, congressman. >> good morning, alisyn. how are you? >> i'm well. let's talk about how you are and what's happening on capitol hill. obviously the house passed a short-term budget deal to keep the government running past tomorrow at midnight. the senate seems to have other ideas. they don't want to just fund the government through march. they have a two-year plan. let me put it on the screen. they're focused on $80 billion of military spending they're looking for, $63 bending of non-defense spending. can you get on board with the senate plan? >> i think that the senate plan certainly is better than the house plan which is a partisan, defense only and left all the do ms. tick agencies without any

opportunity to plan for the long term. i think the senate effort is better. we'll have to see what the senate ultimately adopts to see if i can be on board. i certainly think it's a worthwhile effort. hopefully they come to an agreement. >> do you fear the government will shutdown at midnight tomorrow? >> i don't think the government will shut down. nobody wants the government to shut down. there are a lot of things that have not been done. one of the things, of course, that needs to be done is what you just referred to. we need to agree on funding levels for agencies. the republicans who control all the organs of government have not sent a single appropriation bill to the president for signature. therefore, no agency knows how much money they're going to have to spend, how they can plan, make contracts, hire people, achieve objectives. in addition to that, we have not dealt with daca which the

president said congress ought to do and ought to do by march 5th. we haven't done that. >> what about that? sorry to interrupt you. what about daca? how is that going to get done? >> i have been working very hard, as a lot of people have been working very, very hard to get a deal on the dreamers. we think it's a simple thing to do. you may have seen the meeting with the president of the united states, dick durbin and i and 23 other members of the congress sat around the cabinet table and the president said we need to solve daca now. we need to do that as the first phase of more immigration reform. we agree with that. we're trying to work towards that end. i had a meeting yesterday with the majority leader, mr. mccarthy and john cornyn and dick durbin. >> i do want to ask you about that. this plays into what the chief of staff john kelly said about daca recipients. it was quite eyebrow raising.

listen to this moment. >> the difference between 690 and 1.8 million were the people that some would say were too afraid to sign up, others would say they were too lazy to get off their asses, but they didn't sign up. >> what did you think of those comments? >> i wasn't too happy. he said people would say. he didn't say he said it. >> but what's the difference, congressman? to insert that into the conversation that some of the recipients would be too lazy to get off their asses. what's the point of putting that in? >> you'd have to ask general kelly. what i want to focus on is the effort to come to an agreement on this asap. i think we have a lot of young people who are extraordinary young people, not lazy at all, very motivated. college students, high school students, people who are working, people who have served in the military, people making a difference in our communities. we want to make sure they have

the certainty that they're going to be able to be here in the country that they grew up in, that they pledge allegiance to and that they love. i want to focus on that. general kelly i think has made some positive efforts towards trying to reach agreement, and i think that's good. we'll continue to work. >> did you share your thoughts with general kelly? >> i did. >> and can you tell us what's you said to him? >> no, i'm not going to go into that. i want to reach an agreement. general kelly is an important part of our discussions along with the four of us who are called i guess the number two leaders in each party in the house and the senate. we're really working towards trying to get to an agreement. it's tough. we haven't made much progress, but i think we can. >> would you like to see a military parade down the streets of the capital? >> i have great respect for the military. we ought to honor our military,

men and women who we send in to harm's way and willing to serve and defend and protect america and our people. they deserve great respect. but i don't think a show of military might -- it reminds you of what the soviets do and what the chinese do. we are the strongest country in the world. we have the greatest military in the world. the world knows that, and we need to honor our men and women in uniform. i think we ought to do so in a way that does not necessarily appear bellicose or threatening to the rest of the world. we want to be peacemakers, not war makers. >> we did the military parade after the first gulf war with president george h.w. bush. >> i think that's a little different. we celebrated that victory. we celebrated the efforts of our men and women in uniform to have an extraordinary -- the first

gulf war was extraordinary in terms of how swift it was, how well it was executed and how little loss of life we had. again, a military parade is fine. i don't think anybody has to be against a military parade. i think what we ought to focus on is our military and its strength, its training, its readiness and patriotism. parade is one way of doing that. i don't think we ought to get deeply involved in that. but it also can be perceived as jingist in some respects, sabre rattling in some respects. i think we ought to measure that and compare that to what we want to project to the world. >> congressman steny hoyer, thank you so much. >> jing ohhism. you don't hear that too often?

joe biden, he didn't run in 2016, but what does biden think about a run for the white house in 2020? >> how do you not run for president? how do you not when it's in your heart, in your head. you don't think anybody out there is better than you. you've never had a moment in history that calls for leadership than now. >> sometimes when you ask politicians, you know what they're going to say. what happens when you flip it? you'll hear the response ahead. also president trump considering whether to release the democratic rebuttal do the memo. we'll speak to a republican congressman who has been very critical of fbi investigators. what are his thoughts next. first, we head to vermont. and go to our coffee shop. and meet dave. hey. why is dark magic so spell-bindingly good, he asks? let me show you. let's go. so we climb. hike. see a bear. woah. reach the top.

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♪that warms my heart, ♪but lying and cheating ♪has torn us apart ♪and i'm moving on. do you think this is an odd twist? president trump is saying he wants to rely on the advice of the fbi and intelligence community on whether or not to declassify the democrat rebuttal to the nunes memo. so he wants to rely on the same law enforcement leaders that he dismissed only a week ago when they strongly expressed grave concerns over the accuracy and content of that memo. odd. let's discuss this and a lot more with republican congressman jim jordan of ohio. good to see you, sir. >> you, too, chris. good to be with you. >> let's go easiest to hardest

and get momentum going. the parade, they're expensive. that's not about money. it's about what image america wants to project. do you want to see the military parade? >> that's the president's call. what i know about this president, i've had an opportunity to be around him. i wish every american could spend sometime with him. you'd see how much he loves this great country and our military. that's what he's pointing to. how that's expressed, how that's shown, i'll leave that up to the commander-in-chief. if it's a parade, it's a parade. >> you would authorize the money for it? >> we'll have that debate. our focus is making sure our military gets what it needs to defend this great country. whether we need a parade or not, i'll leave up to the commander-in-chief. >> so the money for the military, next step. the senate says it's good you passed the short-term resolution, but we want to focus long-term. we have a two-year deal we're working on, bipartisan. $80 billion for the military. democrats say they want a

dollar-to-dollar match. they're not getting it now. it's $63 billion. how do you feel about that deal? >> i'm against the $63 billion. the american people elected republicans to control the house, senate and white house. we campaigned on doing what our military needs to secure the nation. we didn't campaign on growing government. this isn't consistent with what we told the voters and not even close to what was said in the 2016 election. i'm opposed to growing these programs in government. i'm for doing what the constitution tells us what you're supposed to spend your tax dollars on which is the united states military. >> you're growing the government either way. it's not like a real guns and butter argument anymore. you're putting $80 billion into the military, the government grows. >> the constitution is pretty clear. national defense is the number one priority of the federal government. we should do it in the efficient and best way we can. that's why i'm for auditing the pentagon and make sure if

there's waste and inefficiencies, we find those and deal with those. let's stop growing the rest of government. i think that's consistent with what we told the voters we were going to do. >> i thought you were going to be deficit hawks. you seem to be wanting to spend a lot of money, considering you cut the amount of money with the legendary tax cut. >> i'm in the freedom caucus. we are deficit hawks. we're for offsetting increases in spending. we're for all that. what i'm telling you is the situation in front of us right now is you've got many members, both republicans and democrats, who are saying we're going to grow government at $140 billion in discretionary spending. we're opposed to that in the freedom caucus. we understand we need to do the right thing for our military, but cutting spending in other places. that's what we think the election was about. >> the criticism would be you like to spend what you like to spend on. that's why you let the tax bill go through when it's going to crush the deficit. >> the fact is, there was an election.

they elected republicans. not me, chris, the american people. >> fiscal austeritausterity. >> cutting spending elsewhere which i'm for and for cutting taxes and letting families keep more of their hard-earned money. that's what we campaigned on. those were certainly central issues in the campaign. why shouldn't we, now that we're in office, make those things happen in public policy. after all, i think that's what you're supposed to do, keep your word with the voters that elected you. >> keep your word but you want to do things the right way. if you want to cut the deficit, how are you going to do that with the tax cut? >> we're going to cut spending. i'm for cutting spending elsewhere in the budget and doing things in the entitlement area as well. i'm all for welfare reform. >> president trump said he wouldn't touch entitlements. >> we've talked to the president actually about welfare reform, and he supports the idea of reforming our food stamp program, reforming welfare programs. >> what does that mean reforming? how is reform different than cut? >> reform is this, incentivize

work. if you're an able-bodied adult, you should have to do something to get taxpayer money. democrats support, republicans support, independents support. let's get that done. more importantly it will help people trapped in the welfare system get to a better position in life. i think we're all for that. that's why it's an 80% issue across the country. >> are you extending the kelly understanding of humanity. do you believe people who are on welfare are lazy? >> no. i believe we should incentivize work. i believe people make choices. when it pace more to not go to work. >> you think people would rather be on welfare than work? >> i think sometimes we ensignive viez -- >> do you believe most people on welfare would rather be there than work? >> no. i think most people would rather be working. when you fall off the cliff when you go get a job -- we need to incentivize people so they want to get out of welfare, off this dependency cycle, out of this dependency cycle and to a better

position in life. that's good for taxpayers, good for our budget. most importantly i think it's good for human beings stuck in the system. that's what i'm for. >> fair criticism. one of the reasons they are stuck, to use your word, in the cycle is that for all the success republicans are trumpeting right now with the economy, the reality is that the jobs are not there, that the pay is not there. wall street is great. my 401(k) is killing it. i'm going to pay for my kid's college. good for millionaire me. but for most people the jobs aren't there. that's why they're caught. >> chris, that's not accurate. >> show me the jobs numbers that shows these people can get off welfare and choosing not to. >> two weeks ago i spent the week traveling around our district and talking to employers over our district, they have job opportunities. the key is matching the job with the skill set. >> and the pay. and the pay, jim. >> pay is going to go up. wages are beginning to increase right. >> but very little right now.

>> they've been stagnant for the last ten years. >> and they're very little right now. >> now they're starting to increase. you'll see more of that with this good economy we're starting to see. >> that's the hope. it does take me back to something that president trump put very much into the mainstream dialogue many years ago before he was running for president. he said it to me personally when i was at abc news more than once, stop talking about that unemployment number. it is irresponsible. how about the people who are temporary workers who aren't getting as many hours anymore. you don't want to talk about them. they are just as real and more so today than they were when he was talking about them many years ago. >> chris, i agree. i want to grow an economy for everyone. i want higher wages. i think that's better for families, for the moms and dads out there. >> how about when you didn't mandate that the companies have to do anything for workers with their tax savings? >> this is the fundamental difference we have, chris. letting people keep more of their hard-earned money is a good thing. letting corporations, families,

individuals, letting them keep more hard-earned money so they can spend it on their goals, dreams, kids, their future, that's a good inning this. that's what the tax cut was about. letting families to keep more money to chase down goals and dreams. i think that's a good thing. >> the memo real quickly. help me understand this seeming confusion. when it was your memo, doj bad, intel community bad, avoid now. now with the democrat memo, doj good, intelligence committee, good. rely on them. how? >> it's the same process. the memo still has to go -- whatever memo, republican memo, democrat memo, it still has to go through the same process. the doj has to look at it for what may or may not be redacted. >> you didn't do that with the nunes memo, you sent it over to christopher wray for the weekend. >> it went to the white house and the same people looked at it before it went public.

>> that's a circumventing of the process. you were supposed to go through the intelligence community, not around it. >> this is the process that was laid out house sees it. we call for it to be released. it goes to the white house, they look at it. making sure no classified information is going to go public or what may be classified they're okay with. it's the same process. >> you're using a process -- you're using the word process as if it were a universal truth. i mean come on. the process you put together gave them only one day to review it, and now he's bringing rosenstein up -- hold on a second, jim. he asked the american people to figure out where his head was on rosenstein when the other memo came out. now he's calling him to the white house and saying help me figure out how to protect the american people. it seems really inconsistent. >> here is what i want to figure out and here is the process that concerns me. we had the fbi go to a secret court to get a secret document

to spy on a fellow american citizen. >> not a secret court. >> they used a campaign document. >> it was made by legislation. >> the first thing they mentioned in the application was the dossier and they didn't tell the court. >> how do you know it's the first thing in the application? you read it. >> no. but people who have read it told me. >> trey gowdy who says the russia probe is as realistic despite what's in the memo as it was before. adam schiff who said you got it wrong. >> they relied on the dossier and didn't tell the court that it was paid for by the doc and the clinton campaign. >> we're being told that's not true. there was disclosure and it was authorized three times after that initial application. why didn't they keep authorizing it. >> the three times they reauthorized it, they didn't tell the court they terminated their relationship with chris steele. >> he said he was working with the fbi, not because his work product was bad. >> he told the press he was working with the fbi. >> that doesn't make his material bad. if he didn't rely on leaks, we

would allow so much bs to get directly to the american people. we need the leaks. we can't trust you guys to tell us the truth all the time. >> you think it's okay to go to a secret court. >> it's not a secret court. it's made by legislation, fisa. >> you think it's okay to go to that court and not fully disclose to the court the source of the main thing you used to get that warrant, who paid for it, how it was financed and not to tell them that the guy that wrote that document has been terminated by the fbi because he went out and broke a cardinal rule. he talked to the press and said he was working with the fbi. you're gone, still going to use your work product to spy on an american. >> the second part is completely irrelevant. the way the guy con dukted himself with respect to his relationship with the fbi -- by the way, a british agent, not an american one, that's irrelevant to the sustainability and the worth of his information. now, as to the first point. >> you can't trust him to keep a basic rule in a contractual

relationship, if you can't trust him for that, but you can still trust his work product? come on, chris. that's ridiculous. >> totally separate. you're arguing the old meme the argument of correlation -- maybe he didn't know the guidelines. they vetted the individual material themselves and built on it. i'll tell you what's shocking to me, jim. >> you don't know that. you don't know it. >> you don't know it. you don't know any of this, jim. you didn't even read the application. you trusted trey gowdy who wants to resign rather than stay a part of this. >> no one has read the application. i asked christopher wray, let us see the application. i asked him in committee two months ago, show the whole world the application. they won't show it. >> why would you call it the secret court? it was made by legislators. it's a law, the fisa court. it's not a secret court. >> we don't know what goes on there. it's not public. >> it's made by legislation, it was created for oversight of the

intelligence community. >> you know what? we may need to make changes -- >> but you should do it on the facts, jim. >> i agree. >> now you snuck your facts through, but now you want all this vetting on the democratic side. >> i want the democratic memo to come out. i said show us the fisa court application. i want to see it all. i want to see it all. i think it will definitely prove what was in the republican memo. that's what took place. >> how do you know? how do you know? you keep saying all these things without any substance to them. >> i have trust in my colleagues that read the application and given us the brief. >> one colleague, trey gowdy. >> the same people that ran the clinton campaign were the folks that started the russia investigation, the same people who had the fix in for clinton, peter sok, wlees is a page, andrew mccabe, i know all that context. >> we talked about this before. your party has always represented rule of law as one of its pillars. you have to be careful about trying to undermine confidence

of the administration of justice in this country because it suits you politically. >> i agree completely. i agree completely. that's why i'm very concerned if top people at the fbi took a campaign document into a court to get a warrant to spy on an american societied with the other campaign. you're exactly right. i think that undermines the rule of law and that's what i'm concerned about. >> it just has to match the facts. right now we don't know that. jim jordan, i know this. every time out, i can count on you to make the case. thanks for being here. >> you bet, chris. thanks. where does the russia investigation stand a year after it began? carl bernstein is here. he's going to bring us up to speed next. don't we need that cable box to watch tv? nope. don't we need to run? nope. it just explodes in a high pitched

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we cover new revelations in the russia investigation seemingly every day. where does the russia investigation stand one year in? let's ask cnn political analyst carl bernstein who joins us in the studio. good to see you. >> good to be here. >> one year in. how do you see it? >> certainly we're in the midst of getting kedeep in the weeds

a sideshow oven this memo. it's playing right into trump's hands, not of the greatest consequence. >> the nun necessary memo and the democratic rebuttal is a sideshow. >> what trump has wanted to do is turn this into a democrat versus republican. he's succeeding in it partly because the press is callifallir this line debating this memo. it's a red herring. the real thing that's going on -- people keep looking and i'm asked all the time, how is that like watergate. watergate is not the analogy. the real analogy is joe mccarthy and donald trump. what mccarthyism was all about, was smearing american institutions for self political gain. mccarthy smeared the department of the army, smeared the united

states information agency, the voice of america. he accused people of treason, exactly like donald trump did if other day. it's not an accident that mccarthy's hand maiden and enabler was roy cohen. we heard the other day donald trump speak of his mentor, roy cohen. where is my roy cohen. this is a moment we, including in the press, fox news, we need to look at history. we need to look at the last great authoritarian demagogue joe mccarthy and see if i'm right, this is true, that donald trump mimics, reembodies to a large extent the tactics, techniques and methodology of joe mccarthy, the constant smears of immigrants, of mexicans, those he opposes, the belittling of them, little this, little him. look at the clips of joe

mccarthy. >> carl, in the absence of a politician to fill in the role of the "have you no decency" roll that took place in the mccarthy era, the nunes memo, you also in the media can't let them use phrases like this was a secret court when they went for their secret warrant. that is a legislative body, the fisa court. they are undermining the doj for political purposes. you've got to call it out, carl. >> let's just report the facts. we don't need to engage every time the president does something or his lackeys or ak co-lights do something. we don't need to turn it into the biggest issue -- what is the real issue here? the real issue is the conduct of the president of the united states, his family, his business associates, his business organization and the conduct of the russians in the election.

we have a legitimate investigation. let it proceed, the mueller investigation. that's the big question. why is he trying to cover up and impede the mueller investigation and then use mccarthy tactics. the difference between mccarthy and donald trump, mccarthy was a senator. we never had a president of the united states who was an authoritarian demagogue before who issues these kind of smears and lies daily. this is extraordinary. we need to look at it as a country. we need to look at our history. let's see what mccarthy looked like and put up the video next to donald trump. >> to use your model and for a history lesson for everyone, what happened with mccarthy? how did his adversaries fight back? >> first of all, mccarthy was able to carry and scare the hell out of the republican party for years, just as we are seeing now, by appealing to the base, by appealing to a base that was

frightened, that was alienated and by demonizing his enemies and opponents. exactly the same thing. and now what happened with mccarthy, eventually the republican party and a republican president of the united states, dwight eisenhower, pushed back. we haven't seen that pushback yet. incidentally, the most interesting politician in all the memo craze is trey gowdy because he's saying, this is a sideshow. >> the only one who has seen that application on that side of the ball. >> again, it's not front and center of the real issue. donald trump says he really wants to testify. mr. president, overrule your lawyers. if indeed there is no there there, please tell us the investigators, the american people, i'm going in there open hands. let me testify and convince

everyone. it's an easy root if you'ute if telling the truth. >> thank you very much. former vice president joe biden, we did a big interview with him. the culmination was about the journey of pain this man has been on most recently with the loss of his son beau. >> everything with beau was about duty. everything about beau was about the lesson he learned from my father. everyone is entitled to be treated with dignity. i mean everybody. >> what joe biden may be best at is helping people in their time of need when it comes to grief. you're going to want to hear what he says about what he's learned and how next. ray speak. (woman) my name is cedricka. about four years ago a fire broke out in my apartment building, and you were the first responder who was able to pull me up out of it. (lt. ray) oh my god. you kinda caught me off guard here. (cedricka) i could see it in your face,

like he is not giving up for me. (crying) he is not giving up for me. and... i appreciate that. ♪ the things we do rising before dawn. sweating it out. tough to do it all. but we can always find time to listen to great thinkers and explorers whose stories take us places our hamstrings can't. all we have to do is listen. download audible to start listening.

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this last part of this exclusive interview with former vice president joe biden, we talk about his new book,

"promise me, dad." words from his son beau. the context has been misunderstood. they mean profound things to joe himself. the big question, are you going to run in 2020, and what does it mean for him if he doesn't. it's emotional and it's hard and it's real. here it is. >> this book has a very simple message when it comes to politics. it says joe biden needs to run for president. that's what this book says. everything in here about relevance, what beau called duty, what your sense of significance, whether you're quoting a philosopher or not, that was about fulfilling your responsibility. i'm not saying you'd win. i'm not sayingi wouldn't hammer you on a daily basis if you ran. but in this book, how hard for you is it to reconcile yourself with that sense of duty that he brought to your life and that you brought to his?

>> look, he -- everything with beau was about duty, and everything about beau was about the lesson he learned from my father. everyone is entitled to be treated with dignity. i mean everybody, for god's sake, everybody. that's what beau did. what i try to point out here, you can have severe loss if you hang on to purpose. i'm trying to hell to do everything i think -- that sounds corn any -- but that beau would want me to do. when his mother and his sister were killed, i looked up to them rather than looked up to me. the point in here is that there is a -- the american people are better than their leadership is now across the world. we've got to give them a chance. when we give them a chance, they've never let the country down. from my perspective, i'm spending all my time -- i give you my word as a biden -- i'm

spending all my time to reelect a democratic house and have a chance to elect the senate, to stop this insanity and be toobl right the ship again. that's what i'm focused on. i mean that. we've got a lot of talented people in the democratic party. >> who is better than you? >> your father was better than me. >> listen, don't make me get upset. you know how pop felt about you. you guys represent the same things. again, i'm not saying the country would embrace it. i'm not saying you'd win. how do you not run for president? how do you not, when it is in your heart, it's in your head. you don't think anybody out there is better than you and you've never had a moment in history that called for leadership more? how do you not run? >> barack, the president, asked me all during the end of the last administration how do you make the judgment? if i can look in the mirror in

2 1/2, two years, and walk away knowing i'm not walking away because i'm afraid or i don't have the nerve to try to do the job or i don't want to make the effort, then i'll happily walk away for real. there's a lot of new folks potentially coming up here. we didn't know who bill clinton was three years out. we didn't know who barack obama was other than a tremendous speech he made. they stepped up. >> one of the things you point out for people in this book, you captured a phrase i heard your son say many times, but it didn't just capture how he was, you captured who he was, all good. i must have heard him say that a hundred times. when it was dealing with the depths of his fight against cancer or how he felt about anybody asking him about anything, all good. you make a point to put it -- >> my dad had an expression from the time i was a kid and beau

lived it. he said joey, never complain and never explain. i can honestly say without fear of contradiction i've never met a single person in my life whoever heard beau biden complain about a single thing because it was just -- dad's other thing, get up, just get up. i got a cartoon that sits on my desk bought at a hallmark card store. it's hagar the horrible. his ship is wrecked. he's on the rocks looking up at heaven going, why me, god? the next frame a voice from heaven comes down, why not? my dad when i was feeling dad about myself 28 years ago, brought it over. i've never taken it off my desk. that was beau, you just got to keep fighting. you've got to keep fighting and believing. >> let me ask you something else. again, i'm not objective on this stuff when your son's live comes into play and not objective with you when it comes to how you treat people in grief. you mention my brother in this book. we were blown away by how you

looked to our family when pop was coming near the end and when he was gone. when i read this book, it reminded me of something. the message that you give that is of so much consolation to people about what you need to do to deal with the grief and what you need to remind yourself of and what you need to look forward to, some day when the passing of that person's memory brings a smile to your lip before it brings a tear to your eye, i wonder, though, the life you've led and all the consolation you can give to others in those times, does it work for you? is it easier to give the advice than it is to take it? >> they're one in the same. in other words, i'm not able to give advice that i don't believe actually makes a difference. it made a difference in my life. when you are the recipient of so much empathy, so much support over the years, it's easy and

you know what it means to give that kind of empathy and support. you know that that simple word to someone in real trouble with a significant loss, can make a difference not just on the day, but can make a difference in the life. it's all about finding purpose. it's about i'm a big collector of quotes that have always meant something to me. emanuel kahn talks about something to do, someone to love and something to look forward to. what i learned about my two experiences or three experiences is that, if you have something to look forward to, you have a reason -- a purpose, a reason to get up in the morning. that's the way to keep the person and the persons you lost, part of you inside you. it sounds corn any, but i really hope -- when beau said "promise

me dad," it wasn't off maureen dowd's column. she talked to him and knew he wanted me to run for president. that's not what he meant. we were sitting at the dining room table he said, dad, can you stick around. i said yeah. he said, dad, i know no one in the whole world loves me more than you do. he said, dad, i'm going to be okay no matter what happens. promise me, dad. promise me, dad, you're going to be okay. what he meant was that i wouldn't walk away from my obligations. he knew i'd always take care of the family and they'd take care of me. he wanted to make sure i stayed in the public arena. that's all i've done my whole life. that's all that he did, what hunter does, my daughter, my wife. it's in that purpose. i find myself doing what you probably do as a son i do with my father. what would my dad think? i go around thinking, what would

beau think? i swear to grood, what would be think? he was an incredibly decent, honorable man. he was always about somebody else. unless you figure out something that's more important to you than yourself, i think it's hard to be really happy. >> that's really powerful, really powerful. beautiful sentiments you got of him. >> look, he's very open and raw. few people articulate their pain the way he does. the problem is, he's had so much practice at dealing with it. it's so unfair. that's how life is. the calculus for him is not easy. we disagree with something funneledment. i do believe their party is not moving towards the center. it is moving towards the left, and i don't know that there's room for a cuomo or a biden in terms of where that party is right now. joe disagrees. >> first of all, can i just say

on just that emotional moment, the humanity that you both discussed, i think that that is something, the vice president reached out to you when your father passed away, and your family. this is something that people don't realize. because of his horrible experiences, he does all the time -- i can't tell you how many senators, staffers, people who barely know him say, i just got a call from joe biden because my father died or my sister died. it's kind of unbelievable the way he uses that experience and he tries to really help people who are feeling similar. having said that, just on the raw politics of what's going on, i thought one of the most fascinating answers on that point, chris, that he gave to you was when you said, wait a minute, are you really liberal enough, he started to talk about his liberal bona fides, how he was one of the first to be in

support of gay marriage. he said, you can do that and still know how to talk to working class americans, working class democrats. it was very clear to me he thought about your question a lot, meaning he was thinking about how he would position himself in 2020 and the marriage of that, where the party is and where the party needs to be, meaning getting those trump voters back or something that is on his mind big time. >> of course, demure when chris asked him directly about 2020. he said there's all sorts of new folks coming up. who are they? >> i mean who aren't they? >> i asked him who and he named someone who is dead. >> that's the point. that's why i was joking with you as we were watching, that somebody like an andrew cuomo who is the next generation, and there's so many next generation. a lot of them are in washington which could be problematic. a lot of young senators. a lot of young house members.

it's hard to imagine in this day and age. >> who jumps out? >> give us names. >> oh, gosh, the people -- you have kamala harris, cory booker, kerstin gillibrand. you have people just in the way that they vote -- they have a big red flashing signal saying i think i want to run in 2020. >> there are also huge lefties. >> there's something else, something else that they are that i think about all the time. they're cautious. in donald trump's america, what he showed, at least at that point is you can't be cautious. you have someone like tom steier who is a billionaire who is running all these ads saying impeach the president. he's the opposite of cautious. it's easy not to be cautious when you have zillions of dollars. i think that's one of the things to look at, is people willing to take a risk. >> i think you're spot on.

that party has to figure out what it wants to be before it's going to figure out who its leader. >> dana, thank you. "the good stuff" next. dark magic told in the time it takes to brew your cup. first, we head to vermont. and go to our coffee shop. and meet dave. hey. why is dark magic so spell-bindingly good, he asks? let me show you. let's go. so we climb. hike. see a bear. woah. reach the top. dave says dark magic is a bold blend of coffee with rich flavors of uganda, sumatra, colombia and other parts of south america. like these mountains, each amazing on their own. but together? magical. all, for a smoother tasting cup of coffee. green mountain coffee roasters packed with goodness. new year, new phones for the family. join t-mobile, and when you buy one of the latest samsung galaxy phones get a samsung galaxy s8 free. yahoooo! ahoooo! plus, unlimited family plans come with netflix included. spectacular! so, you can watch all your netflix favorites on your new samsung phones. whoa! join the un-carrier and get a

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when you buy her setting at jared. and let our expert jewelers help you find or create the one ring that could only come from you and only be for her. only at jared. good stuff. volunteers in california come together to help a stranger. vicky johnson, one of the homeowners that got totally demolished in the month seed dough mudslide. the only way it could be salvaged was to get the mud out. who shows up? the bucket brigade. this group of volunteers from the area, they come and did the deed. >> the true nature of this is to help out and bring our community together. >> that's what they did.

they literally just did the grunt work of getting the mud out to start reconstruction. they did it because it matters. >> they really are just heroes in my eyes. i can't believe the amazing work they're doing. >> everyday people coming together. >> that's so wonderful. thanks for showing us the biden stuff. great stuff. we'll be replaying it throughout the day. time for cnn "newsroom" with john berman. >> things the president wants this morning, a conversation with robert mueller, a shutdown and a parade, not necessarily in that order. things that key white house advisers and senior republicans don't waseem to want this morni, a conversation with robert mueller a shutdown and a parade, not necessarily on that order. on a morning that republicans and democrats say they're very