after years of pressure from washington. if you like the gps challenge, don't forget we have launched the gps challenge online, every sunday we will post on our website 10 questions to test your knowledge of the world. thank you to all of you for being part of this program, i will see you next week. good morning, i'm filling in more bri for brian stelter, it's time for "reliable sources," the story behind the story, how the media really works, how the news gets made. this hour president trump says no way to releasing the democratic intelligence memo to the public, calling it very political. congressman eric swallwell is here to talk about a bill she's introduced to protect journalists in america. also, facebook, twitter and google execs, grilled by members of the british parliament right

here in the usa, they're looking at fake news, the deliberately twisted lying kind, but will anything change? and what does a newspaper to a billionaire doctor signal? can he cure an ailing giant? but first president trump is defending hiss staff after a series of missteps in the rob porter abuse allegations. hope hicks has become part of the scandal and story absolutely fantastic. he says she is very talented a d

and. joining me now is lyn sweet, a columnist and bureau chief at the sun times. washington bour bureau chief, greetings to you all and happy morning. >> hi, frank. >> let me start with you. you profiled hope hicks and as we pointed out, hope hicks is in the middle of all this, what does this say about the communications director that she can be part of the story and

still trying to shape it. >> she's found herself at the center of a public scandal this way, there's been tons of hir g hirings, firings and people have retired from donald trump's orbit and she has enjoyed. but cnn was the first media outlet that questioned -- i would point out that donald trump since day one of his presidency, something that we have been able to take note of over and over again. he kind of throws things out there and says things casually and it results in these stories and then later that day or the next is saying something very

different. it's not surprising that hope hicks is part of this intriguory, because as history typically shows, it's a prelude to someone making an exit. >> with the white house being all over the place, as it has been with the chronology and the response to this. >> what makes it a difficult to story to repeat is what you need facts and a timeline, you don't need statements which have been the subject of a lot of catastrop controversy here. the issue is what do you know, when did you know it, who told you what? that's the difficulty here is that the white house is short on facts and explanations, meaning, due process is exactly what porter has been getting all these months because they decided to keep him on while the interim clearance process was ongoing. so indeed, he's been getting it,

and if the white house chose, he could still be there today. all that's changed is that the public know what is the white house knows. i would say the difficulty in this story and others is simply getting facts unvarnished and then if we have questions, we'll go back. that's always the central frustration. >> let's point out that hope hicks, the communications director has been dating rob porter who's now out and has been accused of abuse by his ex-wives. but she reportedly drafted -- which referred to porter as a man of integrity and honor, which are the comments that stood until they didn't and t. n

>> lynne is right about the timeline, here's one thing we have to remember, hope hicks is in the communications shop. but the problem is, frank, what do you do? does she recuse herself? and some will say she should have, and that could have been one of the best scenarios for her if she would have recused herself. but at issue, she did write this and we also have to look at the timeline as well as this president. you never want to show that there is weakness. so they're going to say, they're going to talk about his stealth efforts in organization and how he kept things going, they're going to also talk about how who he was is the person they knew, not necessarily, what has been accused of -- presented against him. so the issue is, this white house trying to show the american public that we were still able and capable to do the people's business, even in the midst of this. but does it make it right? no, it doesn't.

lynne is absolutely right about this timeline, and also another piece is that what has been said about the security issue, that this man could have been blackmailed and it could have jeopardized his job and the issues he dealt with. he touched top secret and classified materials with a q clearance. he never had a total security clearance. >> let's bring it back to the president's tweet, because he said something about where does someone go to get due process? what's he saying here? does he have a point? and it's inron iric that he may raising, but the president may be too quick to jump on these kinds of stories. >> i think he's using the term due process, not in the literal sense, but that people are jumping to conclusions, and i think that's wrong in this case. >> but that's something that

people in journalism have to do all the time. >> i think that's untrue din ths case, there's been a lot of testimonials coming from rob porter's ex-wives, but to lynne it's point about not having facts and it's an issue with this white house consistently. we don't have facts for how these statements were really created. who was saying what behind the scenes, who was dictating what, this timeline has emerged, this narrative has emerged that definitely hope hicks is viewing john kelly's statement. bu but we don't have any confirmation on this and that's what's difficult is that the white house won't tell us the truth which in any other administration would be simple. >> it's a diversionary tactic,

and due process is usually diversionary in a journal proceeding. we're not in a judicial proceeding. we're members of the press, it's news, the daily mail had a news story, intercepted a news story. the white house had decisions to make about how to reargument ct. usually when you talk about due process in a criminal or civil case has a conclusion. >> i think you pointed out, he's using the word due process, due process that you use in making an editorial judgment as to whether something is story, due process is when someone decides if something is a hirable or fireable offense. so we have to be mindful about how you use that term. >> absolutely, they had time, they were giving -- i mean i

want to give the white house their due. president trump, you gave robert porter due process, that's why you let him remain on the job. and as a practical matter, you could have said, well, we are going to -- we think there's still more due process to run out here, so he will stay on the job until i as a president think otherwise. that could have happened. >> april, what is left to this story? what are the questions still unanswered and that the public needs to know about, do you think? >> there are a lot of questions. you know, what is is the vetting process, number one, for this administration? you know, there are high standards that were in place for other administrations in bringing people on. also, you know, when you consider someone who has a blemish on their record, their personal record, their criminal record, what is the standard for that. you know, because not only was it rob porter, we had a

speechwriter in the environmental quality office counsel who also had to resign because of allegations that he had abuse issues against his then-wife, his ex-wife, so there are a lot of questions going around as to how this administration really handles personnel and who is qualified and what are the qualifications, what's the criteria to be able to get in and also to be able to have a security clearance or to be able to touch classified and top secret information if indeed you are put in a situation where you just have a questionable background and that can come and be thrown there your face. >> what the vetting process is and the public and congress gets to know about all of that. i want to switch gears for just a minute before we run out of

time here, a couple of situations that came up this week, the military parade that the president wants, how would you write that story, olivia? >> i would write it unhappily and probably sarcastically. >> why? >> i think it's a very serious thing and i -- but it's just an example of 2ru6r7 divergine thing and i -- but it's just an example of 2ru6r7 divergin thing and i -- but it's just an example of 2ru6r7 divergine thing and i -- but it's just an example of 2ru6r7 divergi dona e diverging from the standard we have had in other administrations. >> does this mean the political media is going to get left behind in this parade? because plenty of people would like to celebrate the military in this country. >> i would prefer to do that, because i have a better answer for you. i did a story on it and i chose to focus on an interview with illinois senator tammy duckworth who is a wounded iraq war vet,

who is of the military, who knows what it's like to want to be celebrated as a veteran and active duty troops, and she thought it was a monumental waste of taxpayer money. and i thought her viewpoint was an informed one, and it is one where because she is of the military, she says, when you're in the military, you can't speak out. if your commander in chief says to do a parade, you do a parade. if you wonder how i do the story, that's how i do it. and it's not a matter of left or right, it's a big undertaking and it has a cost-benefit analysis. and trump knows that in this case he might have unified opposition from members of both parties who just don't think that this is good, but he's the president, he can order it. >> last word to you, how would you write the story? >> is it the id and the ego over

really the military and also the fact that george h.w. bush spent about $12 million the last time there was a parade and the costs will probably be much more than that if there were. something along those lines. >> oka >> up next, how competing news narratives are taking us to alternative universes. why wait months for your next vacation when you can squeeze one in between friday and monday at hilton? there's a vacation at the end of every week. whatever type of weekender you are, don't let another weekend pass you by. get the lowest price when you book at hilton.com

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and welcome back to "reliable sources." it is the tale of two narratives once again, red news versus blue news when it comes to one of the biggest news stories of the week, alternate news stories -- here's what networks like cnn, abc and the bbc covered when it came to the porter story. >> one of president trump's top aides has resigned after two ex-wives have come forward with abuse allegations. >> a big headline out of washington this morning, the resignation of one of the president's closest aides. >> this is now the second top aid to the president of the united states who has been accused of abuse towards women. >> and here's what fox chose to

cover instead of the porter story. >> tonight we have even more text messages from trump hating fbi officials peter strzok and lisa page. >> those allegations raising even more questions about what the fbi knew about the clinton investigation and when they knew it. >> are they talking about the president of the united states? are they talking about barack obama? does that mean he was involved in whatever they were doing? >> we have two very simple questions for barack obama and frankly everyone else involved in this scandal. >> what did the president know and when did he know it? >> fox barely mentioned porter, so were the types of things they reported deliberately meant to muddy the water. obama hasn't been president for some time, but fox is putting it in this narrative. poll, americans overwhelmingly believe obama improperly surveilled donald trump

campaign. my reaction is one thing, but what about the people consuming this information? the gallup poll says that 44% think it's -- how well is the news media is doing very well, supporting or democracy, while only 10% of republicans believe the same of the news should serve to inform, to seek truth, to hold the powerful, whoever they may be to account. instead what we're seeing is news is just another disputed battleground in a polarized america, a filter on what people see and believe. joining me now is bethany mandel, she's a conservative columnist and oliver darcy. it's a fascinating dual

universes here. >> i was watching jeanine pirro's show last night and the amount of conspiracy theories that were being floated to defend robegeneral kelly and al jones at info wars is looking at fox news and a little worried that they're infringing on their territory. it's insane. one of those top stories you were showing earlier, the rob porter story -- sort of moved on to a new thing, without even correcting their initial story online, muddying the waters with stories that are not big news today, but the stuff is not even true. >> bethany, conservative media have a very important audience and a very important mission. >> yeah.

>> and correredibility matters nowhere you're coming from, it seems to me. >> to my as a conservative journalist the fact that they don't want to talk about the porter story, not that there was an aid who was susceptible to blackmail, he's walking around the white house without a security clearance. if we want to talk about the fbi and keeping our country safe, that's a major story. >> how does that actually harm the brand to support a story that doesn't fit your narrative? isn't this dangerous business for a breitbart or a bfox or anybody else? you're a legitimate journalist working for a legitimate news

organization. >> it's not going to harm their credibility because these folks who are consuming fox news are only consuming fox news. a lot of the examples that you used were opinion shows like fox and friends and hannity. the folks who watch those are devoted partisans and they're not going to hear these other stories. >> they're living in another universe is what it is, and they're being told that cnn and the "new york times" and "the washington post" that these guys are not telling you the truth, when in fact it's quite the contrary. >> bethany, i want to ask you about a tweet you sent earlier this week. what about this is about? >> on bill hammer's show on fox,

they had corripy lewandowski on talk about porter's time in the white house. that is relevant information that nobody seems to be talking about. and they also are not mentioning the fact that you might have a bit of a credibility issue if you have a man on camera, and you have the audacity to have cory lewandowski on to talk about why the white house isn't taking this seriously? >> lewandowski compared to kim jong-un, that's serious stuff. >> but it's the comparison that he is an expert in any way on abusing women. he has physically assaulted a

woman on camera. >> they certainly put themselves in the crosshairs with what was going on. a remarkable column by john moody who is one of the top news execs at fox news, slamming the focus of this olympics, as saying, and these were his words, darker, gayer and different. that seems extraordinary -- >> i reached out a couple of times, they're not getting back to me, john moody, the executive is not getting back to me either. but they said it didn't represent the values of fox news, which is extremely perplexing because this is an executive editor at fox news, that apparently doesn't understand his own companies values. it's quite strange and what's

also odd is that you would expect him to be leading others in the newsroom, showing them what the company values are, and apparently, he doesn't know himself. we'll keep watching. up next, president trump refusing to release a memo drafted by democrats on the house intelligence committee. and about the new legislation he's introduced to protect journalists right here in america. ticking ]

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welcome back.

when president donald trump took the oath of office 13 months ago, he swore to preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the united states, all of it, including the first amendment, which protects free speech and a free press among other things, but repeatedly throughout his presidency, he has attacked news organizations individually and the press institutionally. >> a few days ago i called the fake news the enemy of the people, and they are. i'm not going to give you a question, you are fake news. it's frankly disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write and people should look into it. >> during trump's first year in office, the u.s. press freedom tracker which is led by the freedom of the press counfounda, reported 44 arrests of journalists and 34 physical attacks of journalists. two photographers were assaulted at a make america great again

rally in california. a u.s. congressman body slammed a reporter to the ground. in november, a campaign staff member for then senate candidate roy moore shoved a fox news camera at the rally. my next guest says the current environment toward the press is so toxic and so dangerous that he's proposed something that until now would have been unthinkable in this country, a federal law to protect journali journali journalists. before we get to this and this is huge and very important, i do want to ask you, you're also on the house intelligence committee, and the president is calling for the memo to be rewritten before it can be put out. are you in the process of redacting portions of it? >> we believe it's time for the president to come clean with the

american people, to release this me memo, he knows showing a concern about sources and methods that he was not willing to show just two weeks ago when he released the republican memo and acknowledged that he was supporting its release before he had even read it. >> he's reviewed the memo, the white house reviewed the memo, said redact parts of it. the indications are from some of the committee that that will happen, is that under way? when will it be released? >> our staff worked hard throughout the weekend because the redactions required looking at classified information that they're reviewing back in washington right now, if the redactions are to support sources. but if there was pressure put on the committee by the white house--application against carter page, we can't support that.

>> when do you think this will go back to the white house? >> you know, hopefully, it can go back as soon as tomorrow. but we are back in washington on tuesday, when our committee next meets again. but again, our committee members want to end this memo charade. every second we spend working on this memo is a second we're not interviewing witnesses or doing all we can to protect the ballot box at the next election. >> and every minute we spend on it is a minute we're not talking about the journalist protection act. what is it and why now? >> it protects journalists in every corner of our country if they are attacked physically while doing their job. i really wish i didn't have to introduce this but we have seen rhetoric from the president declaring the media as the enemy of the state, and i'm afraid that many journalists will continue to come under attack and i want to make sure that if it's politically unpopular in a particular part of the country

to prosecute someone who abuses a journalist, that there's a federal backstop. and also, as you know, frank, journalists investigate people in power like the police, prosecutors and city hall. we want to make sheure if they were ever attacked, that the decision locally would be not to prosecute the one who attacked them, then you have this federal backstop. >> what would this require? would this be about physical attacks only? and many states say we don't need this and this is state business not the federal business at all, how would this actually work? >> this will only allow prosecution if a journalist was physically attacked. it doesn't limit anyone from criticizing the press, donald trump can go along his way and continue to declare the press the enemy of the state, that's not good for democracy, but that would. be a crime here, it just allows a federal prosecution of any journalist, we believe that the first amendment is a fundamental

right and it should be protected everywhere. >> all right, let me ask you about this, amy who is a writer at the daily signal at the heritage foundation pushes back against this and she has some good and interesting points, she said the attacks that you mention do not come from the right wing by any means, and she says it's irresponsible to suggest that america is a dangerous place to be a journalist, or that trump is responsibility for this danger, disrespect for those journalists who are actually risking life, liberty and property on a daily basis. in 2017, approximately 7 0 journalists were killed worldwide and another 262 impressed in connection with journali journalists. >> things changed dramatically in the united states in 2017 when we elected the first president who's ever declared so

skech consistently that the media are not only the enemy, but he put on his social media a number of times posts of violence against the media, or suggestions that we would be better off if he could stomp on the media, or clothesline the media in a ring, so we're starting to see increasing amounts of attacks and you pointed out some of them in the lead in to the show. sometimes this crime is never prosecuted because the local authorities protect the journalists, but if -- we want to make sure they still have an avenue to justice. >> congressman swallwell, before you go, very quickly. so far as i understand it, this big, your co-sponsors are all democrats. do you have any republicans who are lining up and are prepared to sign on to this thing as well? >> i've been reaching out to republicans and it would protect a conservative journalist just as much it would protect liberal journalists so i hope we all can

agree that the freedom of the press is essential in our country. >> do you have any republicans signing on with you at this time or say that they're going to? >> i know some have stepped up and they want to do the right thing. >> congressman, i want to thank you for putting this issue in front of the american people, there's plenty of room to criticize the media in coverage of one sort of another, but institutionally, this is a pillar of our democracy, and freedom of the press and security of the press is something that we take for granted and i hope we can continue to do so. up next, executives from facebook, going m and twitter faced a drilling this past week for their role in russian med immedia electielecmedia meddling, do we expect anything to change? tor. she told me about non-insulin victoza®.

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members of the british parliament, a subcommittee conducted an unprecedented hearing in the u.s. to dig deeper into the problem of misleading and deliberately false news, the m.p.'s grilled top social media outlets. >> i'm sorry i can't answer, i know we have done, we have looked to understand how false news is manifesting itself. i'm not saying we looked at how much money specifically would have been gained because it wouldn't have been a relevant factor to remove fake news. >> npr pushed against a stark reality check. >> what happens when the journali journalistic landscape is so december nature eimated that pew

who the truth. >> you have all of this trusted information, and we have none of it because you won't show it to us. >> doesn't this indicate just how powerful you have become and what a pandora's box, to use my colleague's term that you have opened up. >> deliberate use of your platform to deliver absolutely false and defamatory investigation can't continue during election time. >> if you want to spread a lie around the world quickly, twitter would be a good way to do it. >> great to see you. >> great to be with you. >> full disclosure first, you were there covering the story, i was there because it was at george washington university and i was also someone who testified in that group, mostly talking about the credibility of the -- what was your main take away? >> the main take away was the of

course frustration you could hear from the m.p.s and you heard from those clips you just played, what they see the social media, the internet companies are responsible for is not what these companies think they're responsible for. there was an explosive moment where the chair sort of yelled at a facebook executive saying they did not think that facebook was responsibility for a foreign government buying ads. a bank is held responsible if there's money laundering through the bank, you can't blame just the person who did the money laundering, the bank is the platform. and you could feel the tension between the two of them, that the social media companies don't think they're as responsible as much as the m.p.s do. >> these are all american companies, so they're based here and they reflect american

culture and american law, with freedom of speech. but there's a different sense of that in europe and elsewhere in the world and there's this collision of culture in many ways. i thought that was an interesting thing as well. >> i spoke to several of these m.p.s and because they have more power to regulate in europe, the uk hasn't really issued any sort of really harsh regulations on social media companies like germany has, that has this really harsh hate speech rules, that if they don't take down hate speech in a certain period of time. and they're heading that time. social media companies recognize, they do now, they need to start acting in a way which the government wants them. because these m.p.st see these social media companies as these irresponsible types of places

where there's fake news is spreading like fire. >> some of those from the social media companies that were there, at least acknowledged they were concern and said that we're looking into it in some form or another and they are taking steps in some of the social media companies. is there any glimmer that anything is going to change as a result? because as you say, the concern is growing. >> social media companies are starting to take certain steps. youtube announced that they're going to start labeling content that comes from state funded outlets, so you think of a place like rt, but that also ropes in places like pbs and bbc. facebook did say they were going to start doing more labeling for advertising just to give more information. but the changes are coming only because they're feeling pressure from government and from the public. >> great to see you, appreciate it. coming up, humiliating public departures and mbtd changes, what's coming up at two

welcome back. i'm frank sesno in for brian stelter. in this nonstop news cycle we're in, it's just longer and busier and more consequential than any of us can remember. chalk it up to a white house in turmoil. it's good for business in some ways. "the new york times" said on thursday that revenue last year was over $1 billion. in large part due to 2.6 million digital only subscriptions. other media companies are on the dark side of the moon. the "l.a. times" and "newsweek." joining me is the founder of

ne newsenomics.com. >> good to be with you. >> let's start with the sale of "l.a. times." patrick soon chung gets the paper. does he want to be the bezos of the west coast? >> the question will be is he going to follow the bezos playbook? it's higher people who know the business, and take that long-term view. a promised runaway, and he has delivered it five years ago, and there are others that have entered the business as billionaires and multimillionaires who haven't. >> ken, the "l.a. times" was once a powerhouse in journalism. it remains the fourth largest daily newspaper organization in the country. what is left of it? >> well, a lot is left. it's still the fourth biggest newsroom. it has 30 million people, and you compare that to someone like the "mercury news" in the bay area, and they are down to fewer

than 50 in the newsroom. there is a lot to work with, but clearly the "l.a. times" has fallen five to ten years behind "the new york times" and "the washington post." >> if it wants to have millions of digital subscribers like "the new york times," how does it do that? >> it invests in content. what kind of journalistic content? and what will it fowkes on? l.a. news, entertainment news or technology news and all the kind of product innovations, when we use the post apps. "the post" has 1 million subscribers, so it can be built. >> i mentioned the other organization, "newsweek," and i grew up getting the magazine every week. >> a lot of us. >> it comes once a week, right? are they done? >> it is spiraling down, and we

can see, you know, the "time" magazine sale, and that was another sign of that. and it fell into the hands as the old boys club of who owns these publications changed, and they didn't know what to do with it. they didn't invest well, and haven't proven to be trustworthy owners, and it is spiraling down. >> what is the bottom line and the takeaway that comes out of the stories? >> to me it is -- we have a bunch of new owners that can enter the trade and sit is a question for them. are they going to own it and get the reader subscriptions or are they just going to milk it and close the doors in 2022? >> where will be the future of information and news in local and state markets. >> that's right. >> appreciate your insight on that. that's all for this televised edition of "reliable sources." brian will be back next week. "state of the union" starts

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white house turmoil. president trump defends a former white house official accused of domestic violence. >> he says he is innocent. we certainly wish him well. >> despite evidence of abuse from the man's two ex-wives. >> grabbed me by the shoulders here and pulled me out of the shower in a rage. >> why does the president continue to support men accused of abusing women? i'll ask white house counselor kellyanne conway next. and under fire, chief of staff j