this is "gps." the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. today on the show, the russians did it. 13 russian nationals and 3 russian organizations interfered with america's election. that is what robert mueller's latest indictment says. what does it mean for the president and the larger investigation? we'll explore. then, bill gates. his first career made him the

world's richest man. his second act is giving his tens of billions away. i asked him how he feels about the trump presidency, the america first agenda, and why he spends most of his money on none americans. an eye-opening interview. also, it may be frigid at the olympics, but relations between the two koreas continue to warm. what is behind kim jong-un's offensive? is it real or a ploy? we'll explore. but first, here's my take. there's a lot to be optimistic about today. in almost every part of the world, economies are growing and more poverty and disease are receding, but then there's the middle east. syria remains a collapsed country. more than 5 million of its people have already fled. yemen is now the site of the world's worst famine and the war seems unlikely to end there

soon, and the greatest conflict in the region seems ever present. we are seeing fighting between turk turkey, syria, and israel. recent events make plain it's not working. in the latest issue of "foreign affairs," the scholar urges a fundamental rethinking of washington's iran policy. the administration is working off the premise that instability in the middle east is the result of a rising iran that seeks to spread its ideologicideology. this was the result of the 2003 administration invasion of iraq which overturned the power between arab states and iran by

dislodging saddam hussein, and allowing chaos to spread. they the not try to spread islamic fundamentalism. it has been at the forefront of the fight against sunni terrorist groups like he. they have strong local allies like iraq, syria and yemen who are willing to put shoes on the group ground and plays a long game. the united states and israel are outsiders in the arab world and mostly fight from the skies. but air dominance has its limitations in terms of shaping political realities on the ground. where are the arab countries in this geo-political game? i was told the most striking thing about the power struggle is the absence of the arabs. look at the recent fighting.

it is all non-arab powers. iranians, turks, russians, israelis and americans. iran is trying to ratify the status quo largely because it has won. its presence in iraq and syria is now entrenched. bashar al assad has survived and it is consolidating power over syria, and yemen, and qatar have failed. the rifts within the arab world continue to deepen. for this time, russia aligning itself with israel, but having the outside balancer that america once was. this is the power broker in the middle east that everyone talks to. this is not because russia is powerful, but because it has been shrewd. since 1973 when henry kissinger

expelled the russians from the middle east, the united states has been the preeminent outside power. it is losing that role through a combination of weariness, disengagement and a stubborn refusal to accept the realities on the ground. a different american approach, engaging with iran, turkey and russia might return to its unique place in the region, and might help to return to a stable balance of power in what remains the world's most volatile hot spot. for more, go to cnn.com/fareed, and read my "washington post" article this week. let's get started. ♪ conspiracy to defraud the united states of america. that is the first charge in the indictment of 13 russian

nationals by special counsel robert mueller's office. the charges handed down friday alleged that individuals along with three russian organizations sought to sow discord in the u.s. political system. donald trump took to response, and he seems tho think that mueller's latest move vindicates him. what to make of all of this? joining me now is richard haas, the president on foreign relations. his book is out in paperback. we have a contributing writer at "the atlantic." let me start with you, julia. what is the kind of big picture that you got out of reading this 37-page indictment? >> well, it was a fascinating indictment in terms of the details. so, you know, we knew kind of the broad outlines from reporting both here and in

russia that the troll factory was involved, but the lengths they went to, and created real rallies and events on the ground, that they hired somebody to sit in a cage and look like hillary clinton was a very colorful indictment, let's say. the big picture is, i think, this is -- none of these russians are going to see the inside of an american courtroom, but it's more of a message i think, to the trump administration and to trump's base saying that this is not a hoax, and this is not a witch hunt. russian interference was very, very real, and here are 37 pages of details. >> richard, everybody sort of forcing the legal details and it's all speculation, but what is the big foreign policy message here? because this does seem to be a hostile act by a hostile power. >> you're right, fareed. it's the latest example that russia is anything but a status

quo power. they want to change borders in ukraine, and they have forced quite brutally in the middle east, and now with these active measures, you're seeing power. it's not military or economic or energy. it's cyberbased and it's showing that russia is on outsider and they have not signed up to our sense of what the rules of the game are to be. here we are a quarter of a century after the cold war, and in some ways russia and the united states are going at each other in the ways that the united states and the soviet union never went at each other. >> richard, would it be fair to say also it's difficult to recall a time that the soviet union during the cold war picked on a particular individual, hillary clinton or donald trump, however you see it, and tried to manipulate the outcome? i the think that the soviets

were involved in an issue, but here you have reporting that has suggested that putin personally disliked hillary clinton because of her support for pro-democracy activists in russia, and determined that he was going to do everything he could to hurt her cause. >> absolutely. there's a degree of detailed -- of intrusiveness, and familiarity with american politics. they are discussing what the phrase purple states means, which is focusing on those in play. they have done better than they imagined from their point of view, the outcome, but the fact that it preceded the compaampai and went throughout the campaign is a wakeup call, fareed, that the russians have said american democracy and american society is fair game, and we have got to take steps in order to make ourselves less vulnerable, and that's everything from the

voting machines and voter roles, but we have to look at facebook and twitters and the rest. they are exploiting the technology we have created and turning it against us. putin is a great believer in judo. he is practicing judo against the american society. >> julia, what did you learn about russia from this indictment, about the russian political system? is it clear this was directed by the kremlin? >> actually, you know, putin's name doesn't really come up in this indictment and that's, you know, that's very telling and also very russian. known in russia as putin's chef, very close to vladimir putin, this is close to how the kremlin and he delegates power. he sends a signal of what he wants done, and it's delegated to other parties, often kind of private entities. the way that you are seeing for

example, you know, this troll factory. this is a private -- a private company that thrives off of fat state contracts, but you also have for example, a lot of private security people fighting in syria on behalf of the russians the way they did in eastern ukraine. so a lot of this is designed not to tax the state too much and also to hand out, you know, political favors and money. and also to build in some plausible deniability, so when putin gets up there and lies that the russian government didn't meddle in the american presidential election, it's not technically a lie, you know, because he didn't meddle, but the troll factory did, and they are a private enterprise. >> stay with us. when we come back, where will this investigation go? what will its ultimate political consequences be? when we come back. p get us movi. ...and help you feel more strength and energy in just two weeks!

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the administration refused to p but we have to take this to them, and we have to not just do other things that we should probably do anyhow, but why don't we engage in public diplomacy ourselves? what does putin care about himself? as we know, he cares about perpetuating his own rule and position. why don't we put out their things that would shape the debate in russia? put out the details of his corruption. put out the details of the personal wealth of him, his so-called chef and others. it won't bring out revolution, but it will let putin know that two can play this game, but we should put out information that will make it more difficult for him to justify what he is doing and to stay in power in the ruthless way, and we also ought to criticize him. any time he and the thugs who work for him go out and arrest people who are trying to act in the name of democracy. we should stop giving him a free

pass. >> richard, i wonder whether one of the things that causes some hesitation, the reason why we're not doing this particularly putin's financial stuff, is, you know, there is speculation that president trump is not willing to do that because he may have his own financial dealings with the russians. >> again, you know, i can't speak to that because it's part of the larger mystery, fareed. here we are a year into this administration and again, the president continues to give russia in general, this free pass, you know, just this past week, you had all his intelligence chiefs say, russia has been involved and continues to be, and you had his national security adviser just this week talk about incontrovertible evidence, and he is saying what russia has been up to, and that's a mystery. whatever the motive, i have no idea, but it means that the united states is simply not

acting to protect itself itse. if there were any other form of attack, we would surely respond. why is a cyberattack somehow different? >> julia, finally and briefly, why is it that france and even germany were able to handle this better? what is it that the united states could do internally to be able to be more aware when this is, in fact, a foreign cyberattack? >> well, france and germany were far more unified and they don't have the kind of polarized media space that we do where -- and it was seen as a national security issue as opposed to an issue focused on the candidate the way it is here, you know, it's all focused on trump or anti-trump as opposed to a national security issue. as opposed to, you know, focusing on the fact that a foreign power interfered with the most sacred we do as a nation, and to richard's point,

w before we get to putin's finances, why don't we arm our cyberintelligence to go after these people where they live online? trump's administration said time and time again for the last year, they agree with the dni report that came out in january 2017. they agree that russia has been interfering and continues to meddle. why don't we empower them to act, and trump has not done it. our cyber armies are sitting on their hands. >> on that note, we have to leave it there, and the russian t trolls continue to be active. they are by some reports on the pro-gun side of the gun debate that has recently resurfaced in the united states. next up, the main event. billionaire bill gates. what does this man, who mostly gives his money away abroad, have to say about president

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18 years ago at the tender age of 44, bill gates stepped down from microsoft as the richest man on the plant eet. but he stepped down from that title too when jeff bezos took that. he is as good at giving away money as he is at making it. he has given away $41 billion to date, and he and his wife released a letter about where they decided to give their money, how they feel about trump, and how they feel about their optimism in the world. i was curious to dig deeper on those issues and more. bill gates, nice to have you on. >> good to see you. >> you are a great optimist. your letter is optimistic. your blog is of tptimistic, butm

wondering about what do you think about so much of the pessimism that is out there about the decay of democracy in the united states? the rise of populism and the threat to openness to trade. it feels like, yes, i get that in the very -- over the long time span, the standards of living are up, and life expectancy is up, but lots of people are very concerned that we're going through a very dark phase right now, certainly politically. what do you think? >> well, the good news is our expectations that have less surveillance in the world, to treat people fairly, to treat gay people equally, our standards keep going up, and so our disappointment that we fall short of those standards is helpful. it drives us to take the rema remaining work and be serious about it, but no. i don't think despite the

current trends, that we're going to have, you know, world wars or a complete breakdown of the trade system. >> i would imagine that donald trump's america first agenda is not exactly the way you look at the world. i mean, i look at the work your foundation does. a huge amount of it outside america. what do you think of america first? >> america first, if you view it very narrowly would say, you know, we should leave nato, we should drop foreign aid to syria. we should get out of the united nations, but then all these global problems, whether it's instability or pan democratics, we would be worse off, but that's the debate we're having now, to say, it's good to help africa, you have to prove that

eventually benefits americans. >> again, your optimism. i want to come back to that and ask you about another kind of -- another reason why i wonder this is some cause for pessimism, which is climate change. a lot of the other issues that people worry about, and your answer would be, these are problems, but there are human solutions to it and ways in which human beings are already solving these problems. isn't it so deeply structural, and the response seems lippetmi when you consider india and china and your government into the atmosphere? doesn't that make you pessimistic? >> my optimism is not that we can just sit back and things will take care of themselves. my optimism is based on the fact

that, you know, particularly those who are successful will put their time and resources into taking problems that in the case of climate change, that big negative is far out, that today they will fund the research and the policies so we get serious about this. it was a setback to have the u.s. withdraw from the parris climate accords. a lot of the rnd recommendations for the department of energy wouldn't fund some of the advances that i think were important, but i still believe that the world at large will come up with innovations that will let us decarbonize the energy and transport sectors. we need a lot of innovation in these next 20 years because it takes a long time between when you invent something it gets fully deployed in those systems.

>> you don't seem to be -- to be dispairing at t d despairing that you don't have a strong partner in the government as you have. i know you're being careful, but it would seem to me that, you know, trump, america first, the priorities of scott pruitt on energy, this is all stuff you don't like. >> the climate change stuff absolutely. the congress controls the eventual spending and they have maintained the commitment to foreign aide. they chose not to cut foreign aid, and, you know, i'm hopeful that that will happen again. that they will see that our saving lives and people with hiv and treating malaria that are values to relationships, to hoss systems that stop pandemics from coming to the united states, that 30 billion which is a very small portion well under 1% of

our budget, that that will be preserved. >> when you look at the united states, do you think rising inequality is one of the core issues we have to deal with? >> all advanced democracy haves to deal with that. consumption poverty is down, but you have about a sixth of the population living in conditions that should be very disappointing to us, and government policies need to really think through why aren't we doing a better job for those people? >> do you think in that context the last tax bill made sense? where the benefits of the bill went to people like you? >> your basic point is correct. it was not a progressive tax bill. it was a regressive tax bill. people who are wealthier tend to get dramatically more benefits than the middle class than those who are poor, and so it runs

counter to the general trend you would like to see where the safety net is getting stronger and those at the top are paying higher taxes. >> you would be okay paying h h higher taxes? >> i need to pay higher taxes. i have paid in absolute more taxes, over $10 billion, than anyone else, but the government should require the people in my position to pay significantly higher taxes. >> back in a moment with much more with bill gates, including how he feels about just how much influence he has over the world.

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bill, you once said that artificial intelligence was the industry that if you could really crack that, you would be -- you could create a company

that was worth ten microsofts. everybody thinks that company would probably end up being an american company. the united states dominates big technology, but the chinese government that has laid out a very systematic concerted and nationally funded effort to dominate artificial intelligence. are they going to win the race to dominate artificial intelligence? >> well, no. the american companies including microsoft, but also google, facebook and others are in the lead, and u.s. academia is in the lead. and so the chinese are participating in this revolution, and open technology. most of the academic work is published soon after it's done. everyone thinks, like, speech, understanding vision. everyone understands that. if somebody is better, it's

modestly better, and usually they will publish how they achieve that. this is a very key technology. it's going to make industries more efficient. it will be used by the military and, you know, the u.s. historically has had its military more connected to new technical breakthroughs than any other country. here, the chinese are probably going to do it as fast -- hopefully not faster -- than the u.s. does. it raises a lot of questions. it will reshape the job market, but the u.s. has a strong lead in this. china is number two. >> we have talked about inequality. do you think it's fair that you an as individual have as much influence as you have? >> no. it's kind of strange that, you know, people who are super

successful often have more influence. now, you know, if you have that, hopefully you try and use it not just to increase your net worth or your glory, but for broader causes. but yeah. it is an unusual system that very successful people have more influence. >> how much money have you given away so far? >> well over $40 billion. >> what's the simplest answer to the question people might ask, which is the vast majority of your giving benefits n non-americans. why do do you that? >> we give $500 million a year to u.s. education, so that's our second biggest area. our biggest by quite a bit is the global health work, and there -- because there was such a vacuum that very few people were working in that space,

including bringing scientists in to create new vaccines that the impact per dollar, you know, we're saving lives for less than $1,000 of money being put out there that we just saw a unique role for us in infectious disease, and that became our biggest program. we're very committed to the u.s. piece, and we're looking at how the u.s. education work can connect to other people in poverty areas. >> it seems that underlying it is that all human life is equal. >> that's right. that is written on the walls of the foundation. >> does that come -- that idea that all human life is equally worthwhile, and if you can, you know, get the biggest bang from your buck by spending on those people out there, does that --

is that something that came to you from christianity? from your, you know, all god's children. where does it come from? >> it's pretty clear, you know, when you go to africa and meet the parents, their values about their children surviving are no different than in the rest of the world. when resources are very, very short of course, you know, you think of yourself, then your family and maybe your clan. then maybe your area. the world is rich enough today that the idea that millions of kids are dying of diseases that they don't need to. there is enough resources in the world to achieve that goal, and it just wasn't, like, working on a malaria vaccine, it wasn't clear who should, you know, drive that, and so i was pretty stunned to find that something that impactful wasn't being

funded. i think it's phenomenal that we can help out people in other countries and over time, those countries as they get their health and education in good shape, they become self-sufficient and then the world gets to focus on the remaining countries. so, you know, today some people are graduating out of support. we probably will over the next ten years, and that's just that much more money to take to the toughest places in africa and help them out. >> pleasure to have you on. >> thank you. next on "gps," kim jong-un has been playing nice ever since the olympics started. but is it an act or a genuine attempt? we'll find out. when heartburn hits... fight back fast with tums smoothies. it starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue... and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪ tum tum tum tum... smoothies... only from tums

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. kim jong-un's sister was

welcomed back to pyongyang with an honor guard and a military band according to "the new york times." this was after her trip to the opening of the winter olympics. a trip that marked the first time a member of the kim dynasty ever visited the south. kim jong-un's own review was one of satisfaction. they are moving toward the warm climate of reconciliation and dialogue. what is going on in his head, and could this be the beginning of the end of a divided korea? joining me now now we have a senior fellow and career studies chair at the institution. great to have you on. >> thank you very much. >> what do you think kim jong-un thinks of the united states? i mean, we have very few ways to read this guy. you have done psychological

profiling of him when you were in the u.s. intelligence community. what do we know about him as a person? >> he watches us as much as we watch him. so he has lots of people reading through newspaper articles in the u.s. and the international community trying to see how regional dynamics are playing out. what he sees in the u.s. is an administration that is really strong on maximum pressure and maintaining that pressure internationally. >> and the sister is -- she is fa fairly te-- this is a little bi different from before, you know, from his father and grandfather where you barely knew who members of the family were. do we know more about the kim family? >> what's so interesting about kim jong-un's regime for the past six plus years, he has

spoken in public which his father had not done, and he has carefully curate curated appearf his wife who is young, and the reason is having softer images of his sister and of his wife, is to present to the international community and to the people of a softer, kinder, gentler north korea, but of course, as the u.n. and others have pointed out, the north korean regime is a serial violator of human rights. >> to elaborate on that, they have over 100,000 people in various kinds of prisons? >> that's right. they have as many as 120,000 prisoners in various prison camps where torture and rape and beatings are common. so i think we have to remember that the attention is on kim and his family as a handful of

closest advisers, but there are millions of people in north korea who are suffering under this regime. >> how significant was this trip? kim i don't thijong-un himself t the country since becoming the leader of north korea, right? >> that's right, and this is a big move for the kim regime to send his sister down. >> how important is she? she traveled with the nominal head of state of the country, but clearly is it fair to say that she is the second most important person in north korea? >> i would say she is kim jong-un's closest adviser. she is a full sister, and the fact that he trusted her to go to south korea and to carry that message of inviting president moon to pyongyang i think speaks volumes about how much kim trusts his sister to carry on this important mission. >> so why is he doing this? >> i see this as a very tactical

move and not a strategic move. it would be strategic if we saw north korea saying that it's going to get rid of its nuclear weapons, but this is a tactical move to loosen sanctions i implementation and try to divide south korea and the u.s. >> they are trying to get some of them reversed and it seems highly unlikely that he can achieve that because first of all, that's not south korea's to give. that would require a lot of involvement with washington and other powers, so it is likely that the north koreans will be disappointed and the south koreans will not deliver what they are hoping for. what happens then? >> right, so the trump administration policy has been full on maximum pressure which means sanctions and including military strike options. so sanctions are not going to go away, but the implementation is

key. i would not be surprised if we saw the international community, including china relaxing its implementation of sanctions because they see a warming of ties or warming u.s./korea ties. >> pleasure to have you on. fascinating conversation. >> thank you very much.

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other advanced trill countries. places like japan and south korea have close to zero related gun deaths in a year. the united states has around 30,000. the president tweeted that the killer was mentally disturbed, and perhaps he was, but consider this. the rate of mental illness in the united states is not 40 times great britain, but the gun death is 40 times than in britain. america has about 15 times more guns per capita, and this is not a case of america being different from the rest of the world. data that looked across american states finds a similarly tight correlation. those states that have some of the highest percentages of gone ownership have the highest gun deaths, and the lowest, have the

lowest deaths. given the influence of the gun lobby i said before, there is isn't a simple answer, but there are small fixes that might make a big difference. an actual airtight system of background checks, and tougher restrictions on military style weaponry, and restriction of gun ownership of anyone with domestic abuse. you have to stop the diversions. when you consider how america turns a shoulder, i wonder if it is all of you americans who are disturbed. the correct answer to the "gps" challenge question is "c." according to the bureau of labor statistics, 28% of civil yian workers in america have no access to paid sick leave. that's over 40 million people.

people without access to paid sick days are more likely to try to come to work ill as "the washington post" has pointed out. they expose their colleagues and commuters to the virus. thanks to all of you for being part of the program this week. i'll see you next week. i'm brian stelter. it's time for "reliable sources." this is our weekly look at the story behind the story of how the media really works, how the news gets made. this hour, the mueller investigation is tight as a drum. no leaks while the white house is leaking. why is that? and later, the play mate and the president, ronan farrow is here talking about that. "wired" editor summed up this week best. he said america is where the high schoolers act like leaders and the leaders act like they are in high school. unfortunately, two stories have merged this