tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN February 23, 2018 10:00pm-11:00pm PST
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new reporting at the white house a couple of weeks ago the president's son-in-law jared kushner was facing significant issues over getting a white house security clearance and a guilty plea in new charges in the russia investigation. sarah, rick gates, the former trump campaign deputy chair pleaded guilty today. walk us through the details. >> that's right. this is in d.c. federal court. he pleaded guilty to two federal charges. one was conspiracy to defraud the united states and the other was making false statements. and in these charges he pleaded guilty to prosecutors kind of outlined how he and his business partner hid all this money from the ukrainian government work, from the federal government and proceeded to lie to investigators about it in 2016. rick gates had immediately pleaded not guilty to these charges and talking about the change of heart in deciding to
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plead guilty, why he did not want to go through a trial. we know he had been under enormous financial and personal pressure from this information. he will cooperate with the special counsel's team in this sort of expansive russia investigation, and he faces about 4 1/2 to 6 years potentially in prison. >> the bigger question here, sarah, is this part of a larger effort to get to manafort and get manafort to flip? >> that's how these investigations tend to work, but i also think they obviously threw a number of charges to get him to cooperate. this agreement requires gates to turn over any document the special counsel might need, allows him to testify against potentially paul manafort. and today they unveiled criminal charges. so you can see mueller's team is trying to turn up the heat on
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manafort, get him to cooperate and provide particularly any information about the campaign. manafort put outlet a statement today, and it was a prickly one. he's not very happy with his former business partner and also maintains his innocence and says they are not true. we will see if the paul manafort case makes it to trial. >> joining me now van jones, paul callan. paul, first to you. legally speaking rick gates just won himself a lighter sentence and paul manafort looks like he won himself a world of problems. >> enormous problems for manafort. and for gates it's the story of a down side of having a friend in high places. his relationship with manafort is what brought him down completely. you read the indictment, the agreement he made with the special prosecutor. he wasn't making a lot of
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personal money on criminal activity. he's charged with assisting manafort into moving $20 million offshore and not paying taxes on it. he's accused of lying in his proffer session with prosecutors. that's kind of going into a proffer session with a prosecutor and picking the prosecutor's pocket on it way out. they really frown on that when you lie in the session when you're trying to convince them you'd be a good witness for them. so he's facing a world of problems and financial destruction as well. not only potentially six years in prison but a $200,000 fine. >> plus legal fees. >> yes, plus legal fees, which will be back breaking. >> these charges against manafort and gates, they don't relate to the campaign. they're about things that happened with their ukraine business years before they joined us.
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plausible defense? >> sure. but mueller's not done. what you have now is a situation where people who were as close to the trump campaign and these people were, frankly, the trump campaign for a while, have these types of criminal activities going on, shady connections and, you know, he's getting closer and closer to be able to make a case. but, listen, paul manafort, if you have anything you'd like to say, sir, if you happen at any point happened to notice these things about this president and possible shady connections, this would be a great time to cough it up. >> he was supposed to investigate this russia collusion and now the democrats are hoping for this slight chance maybe there's going to be another -- this heat seeking missile is going to find its target.
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this indictments bring nothing to collusion. it's a tough decision for gates to make. he made it for his family. you can't lie to the fbi. you have to pay your taxes, have to disclose these things. that's what you encourage people to do. mueller is going to make an example to other people to do these exact same things. they should. in doing so, they're going to expedite this process -- >> the harshness of mueller going after gates with this level of malevolence almost in these charges, it shows he's not done. and it also shows he is like the laser missile, and if he finds the slightest degree of illegality in the white house or on behalf of the president, he'll move in that direction because that's the way he operates. >> let me say one more thing as well. the republicans keep saying this was only about this narrow set of issues, et cetera. read the actual mandate. the mandate says any criminal
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activity that we find is fair game. and that's the way the special prosecutor works. and you guys loved it when bill clinton was under the hot seat, so this is the way it works. and the reality is a good prosecutor -- >> well, how long is he going to extend this? >> in the last week alone there were indictments against 13 russians. >> it had nothing to do with russian collusion, i might add. >> it had everything to do with russian meddling in the u.s. election, which is what the investigation is all about. >> they always had to do propaganda -- >> so do you wish those indictments didn't happen? >> no, it should happen. >> is it a good thing they came out? >> it's good thing those indictments came out. you know what it does? it shows no russian collusion took place. >> well, we'll find out. is it a good thing -- it hasn't shown anything yet. >> it hasn't shown collusion
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that's for sure. >> is it a good thing that law breaking whether it be the line to prosecutors, you know, two weeks agoeby rick gates or conspiracy to defraud the government, is it a good thing these things are being turned up? >> yes, it is a good thing. they broke the law. >> all i want to point out is the russia -- you don't like the democrats to incriminate but -- this happened. it's not about what we're covering. >> your covering that collusion happened and we've now known that gates has been investigated until 2014. things haven't shown any collusion happened. >> we have reported that donald trump, jr. took a meeting at
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trump tower when promised dirt on hillary clinton from the russians. >> can i just add one thing to bring it back to this gates plea, this is road that could lead back to russia. remember gates had a relationship with that lawyer. remember the dutch lawyer who was indicted and made a deal earlier in the week who was working for the ukrainian government, particularly the russian supported president of the ukrainian government. that's a road back in the direction of russia. now, manafort was fired when that president was thrown out, and they started then shopping for other international clients. were those clients russian clients? was manafort's relationship with the trump campaign used to communicate with those russian friends that he was seeking business from? we don't know where the investigation is going, but it's certainly -- it's pointing in that direction, and mueller is relentless when he finds a direction to investigate in.
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so i think in fairness until he wraps, and he may wrap and the president walks on this, but we can't say there's not going toby a russian connection when this is secret investigation. >> in this network we constantly go by innuendo, there is russian collusion. there's a significant story line that says no collusion took place. you have people who come on this network from every day from newspapers saying we heard from a anonymous source. that's what you guys are covering. i'm saying let the facts stay where they are. >> we're continue to cover an investigation. the fact is there's an investigation. >> and what happened today showed no russia collusion. >> it showed the deputy campaign chair broke the law. >> it had nothing to do with the campaign. these crimes took place before -- >> that's actually not true.
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also the conspiracy to defraud the government, the tax evasion that went on happened actually during the campaign. many of those crimes happened during the campaign. the relationship with ukraine back then happened during the campaign. all right, brian, paul, van, thank you all. next i want to get your take on new reporting jared kushner's long difficulty getting security clearance. that and more on "360." a littl. 1, 2, 3, push! easy! easy! easy! (horn honking) alright! alright! we've all got places to go! we've all got places to go! washington crossing the delaware turnpike? surprising. what's not surprising?
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talk to your doctor and visit humira.com. this is humira at work. all right, friday's tend to mean breaking news whether it's late at night or by reporters who never want to recover it at all. jared kushner obtaining a full security clearance. today the president went out of his way to say that chief of staff john kelly will have the final say on it even as he praised his son-in-law to the skies and said he knew general kelly would do the right thing. in any event "the post" is reporting deputy attorney rod rosenstein not really a trump favorite. there was significant information according to "the post," reporting additional investigation which would further delay kushner's clearance. this now legal and journalistic
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and political panel. carrie, first to you, what do you make of this warning from rod rosenstein to don megan? how significant this call was made at all? >> well, i think it might have been in reaction -- one possibility is it was in reaction to john kelly's memo that went out exactly a week ago that said they would require and and the justice department to give estimates when they would be able to complete security clearance adjudication for certain white house officials. so john kelly said i'm going to try to straighten out this problem. it's possible that phone call from the deputy attorney general to the white house consul which is the appropriate communication between those two entities was the deputy general reporting back it's still held up, there
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still are issues in his background. and white house, if you want to know that, now i'm telling you that. and now it's up to john kelly to do something with that information. >> john, as you look at this how significant is it that jared kushner still can't get a clearance 13 months in, and does it smell to you it's directly linked to the mueller investigation? >> well, it could very well be the case. so much of this relationship in this white house and the unprecedented -- including the fact we may in a situation where the fbi cannot complete the background investigation because the applicant of security clearance may be the subject of another investigation. mueller's looking into kushner's financial ties, and it may be a situation where the fbi can't put a stamp on the investigation because there may be ongoing issues. i know the relationship between the fbi and the white house is
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usually a bit more transparent on the counterterrorism side. they generally don't when it comes to other activity. >> paris, should jared kushner be running the peace process? should he be requesting as ware told he is, more than anyone else in the white house, classified information and research if he can't get a permanent clearance? >> i think like the president said that's up to the chief of staff general kelly. but i don't think there's anything improper about what jared is doing given the portfolio that he has. if you're going to be leading the white house efforts on peace deals and a lot of things on the international front, there's some classified information that you're going to need. and i think the big problem we have here is there's a lot of speculation and innuendo, he could be doing this.
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the investigation might be connected to russia. what we do know is that this happens on the regular. people go into the white house and they have background checks and they try to get their security clearances, and you work until that is done. when it's completed it's complete. we do know jared did file i think three amendments to his reporting. so each time a new amendment came, that required more investigation. when you are a successful business person with international connections, money tied up, especially going to different foreign entities, it takes a while to get to the bottom of all those possible entanglements when you're serving in gump like he husband never done before. i don't think we should leave it as saying he is somehow unqualified or shouldn't be able to do the job he's to do on the behalf of the american people. >> the fbi is saying he can't get the permanent security clearance, and it seems that should matter. it seems like it should count
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for something. >> look, i think it's unusual and unsettling because we don't know why not. if it's a financial issue, criminal issue, substance abuse issue. some of these issues could be very, very serious and subject anybody to blackmail, questions of judgment. if it's just because he's under investigation someplace else, that's reason to be concerned. some of these reasons could be quite benign, some could be other than benign. from my point of view i don't think we want to normalize this. i went in, mine wasn't done. it is normal for them to still be in process, but this is very, very long time. this is high ranking official, so i do understand why people are concerned. >> let's play what the president said about this because it's pretty interesting. >> general kelly, i will let
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general kelly make that decision, and he's going to do what's right for the country, and i have no doubt he'll make the right decision. >> all right, so was that leaving it up to general kelly or was that leaning on general kelly, carrie? >> well, so general kelly husband a real decision to make because in his recent memo what he said is he's going to cleanup this process, but he also left room for him to make exceptions. so the question is he going to have a new process and say the white house is going to follow security clearance process but he's going to make an exception, frankly, for the president son-in-law because of their access and relationship? and that's not the way security clearance is supposed to take place. the process is supposed to evaluate someone's loyalty to the united states, their trustworthiness, financial entanglements that would affect
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their decision making and ability to have trust in receiving classified information. nobody has a right to classified information. nobody's entitled to it. it is an access that one is granted if normally they meet the requirements to get that access. >> josh, do you think that jared kushner will be treated any differently by the fbi officers investigating this because he's the president's son-in-law? >> i don't think so. i mean the fbi's hallmark is its fairness. and i think the rank and file, the background investigators will be fine regardless of what the decision is here because they don't make formal recommendations. i will say, though, the larger intelligence community on the other hand is going to be furious if it looks like there's a double standard, but at the end of the day this is their information we're talking about. if it's not treated appropriately, they're the ones who are going to be angry. >> to that point, paris, part of
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our reporting is that it's going to be difficult for jared kushner to get the full clearance. it might not happen. if it does not happen, do you think it would be appropriate for him to stay in those jobs? >> i think what the white house will end up doing or what i hope they will end up doing is if he cannot get the full security clearance, that they will find a clearance level -- because there's multiple clearance levels. find a clearance level that the fbi and the intelligence community is okay with him having so he can continue doing the work he needs to do because he has the trust of the president and that's something that's important. >> the problem there what i would say he does have something in his portfolio that don't require security clearance. i like he's doing innovation on prison reform. so he does have stuff in his basket he doesn't need security clearance for.
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jared kushner is going to be in that building doing something and hopefully doing something good. >> and not getting paid. everyone, thank you very much. one quick programming note you can catch a new episode of the van jones show tomorrow night, 7:00 eastern right here on cnn. look at that smile. van will be joined me steph curry. next, troubling developments in the parkland tragedy. new reporting that not just one but four deputies were outside the school where 17 people were murdered. we'll also be joined by one of the stoneman douglas students. one of those students now pushing for change.
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breaking news tonight. troubling new questions at the very least about the immediate response to the parkland shooting. that's on top top of the broward county deputy resources officers who did not rush into the building while 17 people were being murdered. with all the mixed signals and flags and all the rest, about the three still hospitalized, there is this. the deputy who left his job
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allegedly had company outside the school. the very latest now from our randy kaye who joins us from parkland. you have new details, three additional ones that did not enter the school. what can you tell us? >> reporter: well, john, first i can tell you at least the one armed broward county sheriff's deputy scott pederson stayed outside that school even though he knew there was an active shooter inside that school. deputy pederson was outside that school building for about four minutes. the school shooting took about six minutes in all. three other broward county sheriff's deputies were also outside that school building. they didn't go inside thatch they were hiding behind their cars. it's important to note we don't know if the school shooter was still inside, but we do know they never entered the building, those other deputies. this is coming from sources at the coral springs police department, and we should point
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out it was the coral springs officers who were first to go inside that building. >> and you also have new reporting about the tip the fbi received before the shooting. >> reporter: yeah, this was a major red flag that went nowhere. that came in january 5th, and this tipster who called in it warning the fbi that the teen was about to explode or close to exploding. the female tipster spoke of his social media posts, his enjoyment of guns, his violence in school, and she said to the fbi that she feared him, quote, getting into a school and just shooting the place up. meanwhile the fbi as you know has admitted proper protocols were not followed when it came to this tip. somehow it went nowhere even though it was so close, john, to the date of this massacre. >> and florida social services
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also failed to act years ago on a pretty strong tip about this guy. >> reporter: absolutely. that was in 2016. the department of children and families here in florida went to the home of this suspect. they went to check out his home life. he and his girlfriend had just broken up. and what they saw was also very disturbing. they found he was cutting his arms. he had nazi symbols and racist language on his backpack for school. he was planning to buy a gun. and still despite all of that they determined he was very low risk. they figured he lived with his mom, going to school, getting some help for his mental health issues. meanwhile months after that report is when he actually went out and bought this a-15-style rifle which police say he used in this shooting. >> randy, thanks so much for your reporting. ever since the shooting we've been watching these remarkably remarkable kids, the remarkable hopeful sight of young people,
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standing up, speaking out, demanding elected officials listen and act to prevent the next tragedy. stoneman douglas senior emma gonzalez among those leading the effort. and governor rick scott today broke with the nra and proposed new regulations. >> if the curt voluntarily commits someone because they're a risk to themselves and others, they would not gain the right to purchase or possess a firearm until a court hearing. we're also proposing a minimum 60-day period before individuals could and a court to restore access to firearms. also we will require all individuals purchasing firearms to be 21 or older. let me repeat. we will require all individuals purchasing firearms to be 21 or older.
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>> joining us now is emma gonzalez. thanks so much for being with us. you just heard governor scott saying he wants to raise the minimum age from 18 to 21. governor scott is pushing it anyway. do you think this and other things he mentioned are good first steps? >> i do think they're good first steps. they're very strong first steps, actually. and a lot of us in this community are happy to hear this is starting to move in a good direction. but it's not enough. as of yet it's not enough. there needs to be more regulations on the semiautomatic weapons themselves. this is not just a case of how old a person has to be. this is not just a case of mental illness affecting -- mental illness and gun related shootings and mass shootings, they're not directly related. it's when they get together that they get really, really messy and really bad.
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but they're not directly correlated. so it's important that we need mental health reform, but this topic, we need to regulate guns more than just mental health. >> you say it's a good first step. i just spoke with the republican congressman brian mast was florida. he's a republican combat veteran who now says he would support a ban on ar-15 assault rifles. when you couple this first step who said he was moved in part by students like you, do you feel like you're making a difference? >> we're definitely making a difference. if you look around you can see everybody is making changes on their own. people are being inspired by what the kids at our school are doing. they're getting out there, getting preregistered to vote, talking to parents, members of their community. schools have been walking out in
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solidarity with our tragedy. the difference is astounding. you can see it if you look anywhere. it's right outside your window. >> emma, i have to and you about some of the other news today. the clear failures in the system to prevent this from happening beforehand and stop it from happening while it was going on. we know the school resource officer did not enter that building. cnn reporting tonight, breaking the news there are three other county sheriff's deputies who did not enter the school. unclear if the shooter was still there or not, but they didn't go in at all maybe to treat some of the students who were wounded there. how does affect you? >> makes me pretty angry. as a police officer you've made a vow, an oath to protect the people that you are policing. and they didn't do that for us. and i can understand that therapy scared of a fully automatic, semiautomatic weapon. i can understand that.
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i can respect that, but it's your job to protect those who didn't sign-up for this. and i'm glad that one of them stepped down. happy to hear that. pretty solid move. but when it comes to -- when we go back to the fbi admitting their slip-up in not figuring out, you know, not contacting the shooter before he committed the crime, i will restate that i do not know what goes on in an fbi investigation, and i know things slip through the cracks sometimes. and this was a really bad mess up, but they admitted their mistake and apologized, which is more than i can say for any single person at all right now. >> emma gonzalez, we appreciate you being with us. i know there's an open house on sunday. students head back to school next week. our thoughts are with you because i know that's not going to be easy.
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when we continue with an in-depth look at special counsel robert mueller. gloria borger profiles a man who's been involved in some of the most important justice investigations in its history. plaque psoriasis can be relentless. your plaques are always there at the worst times. constantly interrupting you with itching, burning and stinging. being this uncomfortable is unacceptable. i'm ready.
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the breaking news tonight is yet more evidence that special counsel robert mueller has been busy indicting 22 people and companies over the last nine months. secured five guilty pleas and just today getting the cooperation of former trump campaign deputy chair rick gates. so who is this virtually silent special counsel, a man of few words but clearly lots of action? gloria borger reports. >> reporter: special counsel robert mueller is a mystery man. perhaps the most private public figure in washington. but as the leader of the russia investigation he's also a political ground zero. >> i think the public trust in this whole thing is gone. >> reporter: and in the sights of a president who wanted him fire. >> last week the president back down after the white house counsel threatened to quit.
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>> reporter: putting mueller in a bizarre position of investigating whether the president tried to fire him. but you'll never hear about it from mueller. >> i mean this is someone who has turned down more press conferences and interviews than most people in washington ever get the chance to give. he doesn't really live talking about himself. he doesn't really like speaking with the press. >> reporter: at the start mueller was a bipartisan favorite. >> he would have been on anybody's list of let's say the top five people in the country to have taken on this kind of a responsibility. >> we all need to let mr. mueller do his job. i think he's the right guy at the right time. >> reporter: with a long résume. at 73 he's been involved for decades in some of the justice department's most celebrated cases. and the pan am103 bombing in scotland in 1998, a case that still remains personal.
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>> i'll never forget the visit i made to locker b where i saw the warehouse which stored the affects of loved ones. a white sneaker, christmas presents and photographs. >> he's been effectively the same bob mueller in every place he has ever worked. whether that was the u.s. attorney's office in san francisco in the 1970s, whether that was the george h.w. bush administration in the 1980s, whether that was the d.c. homicide prosecutor's office in the 1990s or the fbi in the 2000s. he is hard driving. he's tenacious. he is incredibly thorough and has a very strong sense of right or wrong. >> reporter: not republican or democrat. >> i didn't say hear him say anything political. >> reporter: really in washington?
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>> yeah, that sounds weird. he might have said that guy's a jerk. i didn't see it as a partisan issue. >> reporter: how would you describe his politics? >> he's apolitical. he's nonpartisan. i think it's become quite clear he's a pretty law and order guy. but he doesn't speak of things in political terms. >> reporter: which is partly why president bush picked him to run the fbi in 2001. >> the fbi was remain uncompromising in its mission. >> reporter: mueller arrived at the fbi just seven days before 9/11. he served most of his term under bush, and when president obama asked him to stay two more years, it required an act of congress the senate approved 100-0. his mo, a behind the books guy even after hours.
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>> people told me while we're going to the director's house at the end of the party he would flick the lights. it's seven to 9:00, that's kind of a signal. >> reporter: married for 50 years to a former teacher, with two daughters there wasn't much talk of family at work. a literally buttoned up and buttoned-down boss. >> i remember telling him, director you wear a white shirt. i asked him finally years after he had been director what was the deal with the white shirts when you were at the fbi? he said i understood i was leading the fbi through a wrenching period of change. i wanted to wear the white shirt because i wanted the other fbi agents to be able to know that this was still the agency that they had signed up to join.
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>> reporter: his dress code as unforgiving as his work ethic. >> he was in the office been 6:00 and 6:30 every morning, and he would always plop his briefcase down on the chair while i was sitting at my desk and not shoot the breeze. immediately what's happening, what's going on? >> reporter: what if you're not a good briefer? >> then you're done. the boss likes a good briefer. they would study for two hours before briefing the boss. >> there wasn't a lot of back and forth. very quickly you're going to go through the details of the case. >> reporter: would you assume he's handling the fbi investigation the same way? >> i wouldn't assume it. what's going on today? what do you got? i want to hear what the facts are. let's talk about it. i never saw any curiousness or
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nervousness ever. >> reporter: the pressure is intense but he's seen worse. >> this is man in his early 20s fought in vietnam. >> reporter: mueller grew up in the wealthy philadelphia suburbs and attended an elite boarding school, a classmate of john carrie. then to princeton. >> he was wounded in combat, shot through the leg, received bronze star with valor, purple heart and goes right back in the fight a couple of weeks later. >> i always consider myself fortunate to have lived through the war in vietnam, and there were many men such as david hacket who did not. and in some sense you feel you've been given a second lease on life and you want to make the most of it it to contribute in
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some way. >> reporter: mueller soon found his way to the department of justice and remained there for most of the four decades. >> my colleagues here at the department of justice -- >> reporter: with two short breaks to give private practice a try. >> bob mueller has been notoriously unhappy every time he has tried to be in private practice. you just can't defend guilty plea. they'll meet with a client, they'll explain his problem, and he'll say, well, it sounds like you should go to jail then. >> reporter: so he'll tell his client -- >> sounds like you're guilty. bob mueller is someone who sees the world in very black and white terms. >> up next for us, part two of this look at the man behind had mystery including robert mueller's trip to the bedside of a very ill attorney general. ♪ if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, little things can be a big deal.
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now more of our look behind the russia investigation. james comey is a big part of his world now and this is not his first rodeo together. by 2004 mueller was running the fbi when his phone rang. it was james comey, then deputy attorney general. it was the first time mueller and comey would find themselves in a very controversial legal drama. >> he was worried the bush administration was determined on keep a warrantless eavesdropping program that they and john ashcroft was illegal. but ashcroft was in the hospital recovering from surgery, leaving comey in charge. >> i was concerned that given how ill i knew the attorney
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general was, there might be a request to ask him to overrule me when he was in no condition to do that. he had been a great help to me over that week. i told him what was happening. he said i'll meet you at the hospital now. >> they had to literally race administration officials to ashcroft's bed side. >> they requested the fbi agents present not to allow me to be removed from the room under any circumstances. >> in the end, ashcroft backed and many mueller. >> he enlisted bob mueller because he knew bob mueller had this incredible nonpartisan reputation in washington. while comey might be able to be personally blamed for having political motives or thinking politics, no one would be able to attach that label to bob mueller. >> that was then. now trump views their relationship with suspicion. >> he is very, very good friends
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with comey, which is very bothersome. >> mueller loyalists deny it. but it is all part of the new land scape as he investigates the president. >> we just assume politics affects and invades everything. >> and it has. news of disparaging text messages about trump led mueller to remove a member of his team. >> i think they're devastating. they're beyond showing political preferences. it very much impacts people's perception of fairness. >> then the president declassified a document challenging the fbi's professional behavior. >> i think it is a disgraceful what's going on in this country, i think it is a disgrace. >> the intended message to mueller was clear. your investigation is contaminated. mueller remains silent. instead, letting his work speak for itself. >> he is the best hope to produce a product that my fellow
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citizens can have confidence in. it will not come from congress. let me assure you of that. it is not going to come from a bunch of politicians. i hope kit come from a former marine who is from the fbi and a u.s. district. i will give him the benefit of the doubt and wait on the product he produces. >> our thanks to gloria bornlger for that. we'll be right back. people confuse nice and kind. but they're different. it's nice to remove artificial ingredients. kind never had to. we choose real ingredients like almonds, peanuts and a drizzle of dark chocolate. find your favorite and give kind® a try.
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-present. -together we are unstoppable. so, what are we gonna do? ♪ insurance. that's kind of what we do here. that's it for us. time now for don lemon. >> this is cnn tonight. multiple big stories tonight. we're going to catch you up on all of them. first breaking news in the mueller investigation. the special counsel is tightening the screws on donald trump's former campaign chairman. charges alleging manafort secretly paid a group of former politicians to covertly lobby for ukraine in washington. that coming less than two hours after manafort's former business partner rick gates pleaded guilty to criminal charges and
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