>> we're note going to settle it and solve is right now. thanks for spending your sunday morning with us. thanks. in is gps the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the kworld. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you today from los angeles. we'll start the show with guns, why is america so different from the rest of the world when it comes to firearms. >> why do we have to march on washington, just to save innocent lives. >> and just what does the second amendment really mean? i will talk to two great experts. then, what is russia's response to robert mueller's indictment of russian nationals? will the charges have any effect

on moscow's meddling. we'll explore. also, the ongoing war in america over immigration. what disease the trump administration want the face of america to look like? how should the democrats respond? but first, here's my take. alfew weeks ago, the economist intelligence unit published the 10th edition of its democracy index and for the second consecutive year the united states failed to make the top bracket of full democracy and was grouped in the second one, flawed democracy. in this year's report, scores dropped for more than half the world's countries. professor larry diamond described years ago, it shows no sign of ending. it's best seen by looking at the

press of the free press worldwide. take kenya. last month, kenyan president instructed the country's main television stations no the to cover an opposition event. and when they refused, he shut them down. turkey is now the world's foremost jailer of journalists according to the committee to protect journalists. let me underscore that fact. government that has imprisoned more journalists than ever is democratically elected. one year after the failed coup attempt, a poll found 177 news outlets had been shut down in turkey. it might be possible to brush these stories aside but what to make of the turn of events in hungary and poland. administration in hungary has used a series of clever tactics

to muzzle the free press. government taking over public pro broadcasting and cut advertising spending. many are being employed in poland which has been a poster child for its stellar political and economic reforms since the fall of comunism. >> even in israel and india, we're witnessing systematic efforts to shrink the space in power of media critical of the government. >> in israel the allegations against the prime minister include his dealing with press barons to ensure favorable coverage. in india the government has launched a highly questionable fraud and money laundering case against the critic of some of its policies. more than 20 years ago i warned the distinctive problem was elected governments that

systematically abuse the power and restrict freedom the and liberties. i subsequently worried america could head down this path. most people dismissed the danger because american democracy they said was robust. press freedom after all is guaranteed under the first amendment. but consider poland and hungary which exist within the embrace of the rule-based european union stugss th stu constitutions. in america in just one year in office donald trump has already done damage, threatened to strengthen libel laws. his administration has blocked the merger of a news organization he considers biassed while facilitating one with more favorable coverage. emerson once wrote an institution is the length and shadow of one man. institutions are just

collections of rules and norm the agreed upon by human beings. if leaders attack and abuse them they will be weakened and this will weaken the character and quality of democracy. american system is stronger than most but not immune to these forces of democratic decay. for more, go to cnn.com/fareed and read my washington post column this week. let's get started. the shooting at marjory stoneman douglas high school has argu opened up the robust argument on guns. but the question is will just as little action come of the debate as came of it back then. well, president trump said on wednesday it's not going to be talked like it has been in the

past. yet he and republicans ardently embrace the gun lobby. in addition, even gun control advocates recognize the second amendment does seem to protect americans' rights to bear arms as the phrase goes, but what does the amendment say and what does it really mean? and why is gun culture in america so pervasive and different from the rest of the world. joining me now are two scholars who have taught, written and spoken at length about these issues, one a professor of american history and the former director of the second amendment institute. and a professor of criminology. thank you both for joining me. adam, let me begin with you. what i want to ask is the debate about guns and violence, it seems to be me, in america should begin with the recognition that we're just on a different planet. that's why i think the mental health issue is a dodge because we have 20 to 30 times as much

gun violence as any other advanced strooindustrial countr. it's not plausible we have 20 to 30 times people with mental issues. you've looked at it and run correlations specifically with gun ownership. explain your findings. >> sure. i did a global study of public mass shooters over 40 years, and i liked at 171 countries. and i did test for differences in suicide rates, homicide rates, firearm ownership rates, national wealth and i was trying to explain why does the united states have so many more public mass shooters than other countries, and you're right. so when it comes to suicide rates, there are more than 40 countries around the world that have worse suicide problems than the yooiunited states does. of the but by far the

association was between firearm ownership rates and public mass shooters. we're number one in the world in public mass shooters by a lot. number one by in terms of firearm ownership rate by a lot and of course number one in the world in terms of total firearms, way more than even bigger countries than us, such as china and india. >> wouldn't it be fair to say that what that suggests is while other places may have troubled people and by the way it's a sneer on mentally troubled people to assume they're all violent. by and large they pose -- the only danger they pose is to themselves. they're not more prone to violence towards others. but even if that were the case the fact that those people don't have easy access to guns limits the damage that they can do either to themselves through suicide or to others through homicide. >> yeah you're absolutely right about that. in other countries, where you have someone who does decide to

commit an act of mass murder, for example, in china, the most common weapons there are kitchen knives and blunt intrumentes. when you have mass murder in china you don't see 58 dead as we saw in las vegas, or 26 dead as we saw in southerland springs. you see five, six, seven dead. it does make a tremendous difference when you talk about representens availability. >>. >> professor cornell. there is a limit to what can be done about all this. you studied the history. what i recall in the 1930's and 40's of the federal government placed a lot of restrictions on gun own eership and the supreme court went along with them. how is it possible we have the

fixed view of the second amendment. >> the simple fact is we've always had gun regulation. it existed at the time of the second amendment. it actually got more intense after the adoption of the second amendment, and even if you accept justice scalia, who was pretty pro gun and who is decision for the first time defined the second amendment not in terms of a ma lilitia based right e even he conceded there's wide room for regulation and that guns have been regulated for a very long time. so really, the second amendment poses no barrier to gun regulation. particularly if you think that the political process would weed out extreme gun regulation measures, we could pretty much do almost anything debated now would be consistent. really problem is a lack of political will. >> when you look at the issue, there is this broader issue of the gun culture. we can't get away from it. nra is very effective, one

reason is there is grass roots support. how is that different in america? australia has great huchbnting hurt, outdoors. but america seems almost unique. >> yeah. i think you're right. and certainly part of that is based on our history. this idea that a lot of americans believe we need guns because we need to be able to protect ourselves from tyranny. i guess the irony here is the biggest threat being posed these days is not the government coming into your house and terrorizing your family. it's sending your kids to school, going to work, going to a movie theater, going to church, going to a night club, and then being faced with this threat of public mass shooters. so the tyranny is really being perpetrated by the public mass shooters, and other countries take a frankly a much more practical position.

>> professor cornell, what are the simple things that could be done that in your view are incontrovertibly constitution and will pass muster pretty easily? >> first thing to realize is that people who seem so pro second amendment don't seem particularly supportive of the first amendment. congress has made it pretty clear if you work for the cdc or nih you can't do research and we can't formulate more effective policies unless we can gather data and analyze it. 9 first thing we need to do is allow people to do research on gun violence. clearly there's nothing in the second amendment that prevents that. we need to despite people saying we should enforce the laws on the book. we have to furchds tnd the atf. they are prohibited from updating the methodologies to take advantage of searching capability. if we can do a background check

for a gun we could do some about ammunition. i think we want to know when suddenly there's a spike in consumption of ammunition. if someone's buying thousands of rounds and not starting a competitive shooting hobby. we want to know that. >> gentlemen. thank you both. very, very sensible sane perspective i hope has impact. next on gps. how have robert mueller's indictments reverberated in russia? any chance of an upgrade? any chance of an upgrade? upgrade? pretty please? look into my eyes. could be twins. have you thought about being a model?

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my ci can worry about it,ine. or do something about it. garlique® helps maintain healthy cholesterol naturally. and it's odor free. and pharmacist recommended. garlique.® robert mueller's indictments of russian nationals landed with a boom in the united states. even president trump's national security advisor mcmaster said

the evidence of russian meddling was now really in controvertible. >> president trump tweeted his satisfaction with those remarks but didn't hear much from moscow. i wanted to talk about that and the effect the indictments will have on us/russian relations. joining me now steven cohen. and david is a national security correspondent for the "new york times." steve cohen, let me ask you. mueller's indictments of course are symbolic or meant to persuade none of these people are ever going to see the inside of an american courtroom but i suppose they were meant to convince those americans who doubt there was in fact a sys m systematic government election to interfere. you have always been skeptical that there was such a plan, that

it was some kind of great crime and needed to be investigated. are you now convinced? >> absolutely not. let me issue the obligatory disclaimer. i am not, nor have i ever been a supporter of donald trump. but i am a supporter of facts. let's railroemember what the st is. it's the overarching narrative in which mueller and this investigation operate. according to the story, russian leader putin directed kind of attack, they say, an american democracy in 2016, which included stealing mrs. clinton ae 's e-mails and disseminating them. what is being said is that president trump was put in the office or abetted by the russians and people go on to say that he is therefore in some way under the control of the kremlin

and therefore treasoness. so i see here two crisis. with this i'll stop. one, a crisis of the american presidency. this has never been said by an american president before so far as i know. secondly, a crisis of american/russian relations because we are now in a cold war much more dangerous than the preceding one. we have to ask ourselves, if we don't trust our president to keep us out of a nuclear conflict or any kind of war with russia, are we doomed? these are the consequences of what we call russia gate for which i can find no factual evidence. >> david, no factual evidence? the mueller 37-page indictment did have a lot of facts in it. >> it sure did, and when you go through the 37 pages, what you get are intercepted conversations between people who were working in this patrol factory, as we call it, four

story building in st. petersburg who were churning out the facebook posts, twitter posts, the advertisements calling on americans to come out in the streets sometimes to bring both sides on divided issues on the streets at the same time. and clearly, mr. mueller had access to some intercepted american intelligence. he didn't say where some of this came from, and it appeared, if it you read the indictment carefully, that they've also turned some people who they didn't name, but who were participants in all of this. so i don't think there's much of a question that it happened. now, to mr. cohen's question did it affect the election, as it created a crisis, we don't know and mueller does not state whether it had effect on it. i think the reason he was so

upset is he didn't restate what vice president pence said, which was it had no effect on the election. we simply don't know what the effects were u and we may never know. >> let me point out, so called troll factory in st. petersburg began as a strictly commercial operation a number of years ago to promote the guy's restaurant. he didn't learn if you got fake people to say his restaurant was great business ticked up. so he began to sell this service, sort of fake news service to russian politicians, and the market was so good he decided to expand it to the united states. people who have is it tustudiedd don't even claim it's had any impact on our elections. let me add to what david said. neil mcfarland reported in the "new york times," there is no evidence it was even tied to russian intelligence and he says it's unlikely that it was,

because it was such a clumsy essentially commercial operation. now are we really going to endanger the american presidency and our relations with russia with what is not truly, so far as we can see, hard intelligence, factual, but scuttlebu scuttlebutt. >> let me ask david, the sort of central question, i imagine that mueller is looking at is whether the release of some of this data that the hillary clinton e-mails and such, was in some way coordinated with the trump campaign, and it seems to me that is where you get at the issue of not the russian interference but the issue of whether there was some connection or collusion with the trump campaign. >> that's a very good question. i think the president was initially quite happy with the indictment, because he looked at it and it indicted a group of russians, and you didn't hear much criticism of director mueller, special counsel

mueller, for that indictment, because he was going only after russians. next indictments may well look at the -- we don't know this for a fact, but we believe one of the things he's looking at are these intelligence agency connections that went into the dnc and in john podesta's e-mails and then would come the question were they getting any guidance, any coordination from anyone on the campaign. there's been no evidence of that, hard evidence out there yet, other than what you describe. which has been the overall statements of president and some others in the campaign made during the campaign. and it's very possible that the russians didn't need any guidance. that they seem to be pretty savvy about how to operate in the american political environment. it's also possible there was some level of communication, and i think, as the president got increasingly upset last weekend as he thought about the indictment, it's because it struck him that that's the direction that mueller is going.

>> fascinating stuff. we've got to leave it at that. we will be back on this topic with both of you. thank you both. last week on the show you heard bill gates tell fee he's not worried about the artificial intelligence to china. another disagrees, does the ai future belong to beijing? hey, joy, you should let your new pals know that according to a leading independent study, the most awarded network is now best in streaming. i think you just did. you both can get a much better view of the game on the iphone on verizon unlimited. thanks. thanks. hey, thomas, when's your flight? (gasps) someone stole my watch. hey! (avo) unlimited is only as good as the network it's on. so get the best unlimited on the most awarded network. and right now, when you buy iphone 8, you'll get one on us with no trade-in required.

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now for our what in the world segment. bill gates one said that a break through in artificial intelligence allowing machines to learn would be worth ten microsofts. >> they can learn to play chess. machine learning and artificial intelligence are transforming entire professions and vast swaths of the economy from medicine to automobiles. most experts believe the country that dominates ai will lead the world in the next technological era. it might seem the u.s. is indeed the obvious and only likely winner here but in fact there is another country that many

experts say is gaining ground. it's china. race to dominate ai hinges on data. more data you have, the better your machine can learn, and the smarter your algorithms become. china is a datdata-rich market e no others. three times as many users as the u.s. according to a december report. most of them come through mobile phones, which have a dezzying amount of data on the users. it also have has a government that has reams of data it can gather and share with private companies almost at will and weak privacy regulations. in an interview with gates for last week's show i asked him about the rise of china in this area. he said no one can beat the americans on tracking. so on the commercial side, america is still way ahead. but china may have a sizable advantage in a significant area. fields that often require government involvement, like

health care, education, planning, the military. that's because the chinese government has wholeheartedly taken on multiple roles vby ai. co-authoring the december study. in july, china announced a detailed plan to become a world leader in ai by 2030 when it says it will have built $150 billion industry. chinese government's ability to collect and dole out data will help enormously. tech companies share data openly with law enforcement, and they don't disclose publicly what they are sharing, according to "the wall street journal." for china necessity breeds adventure, home to one fifth of the world's population. it needs solutions now. despite the advantages, experts including gates argue that these advances are not a zero sum

game. many of the algorithms are shared openly and will benefit everyone. others are not so. they believe the u.s. government needs to get involved fast. an obama plan was put out at the tail end of 2016 to little effect, experts say. white house office of science and technology policy is currently understaffed. white house hasn't even appointed a permanent director for it. trump administration seems more focussed on manufacturing jobs which is really about the past, than ai, which is where the future lies. at a tech summit in november, google's representative spoke about the man. urging the u.s. to develop national artificial intelligence strategy. >> if you believe this is important as i speuspect all ofs do, we need to get our act

together as a country. >> this to be the moment for america. a race for the future that you just cannot afford to lose. next on gps, los angeles where right now is one of america's two biggest hubs for undocumented immigrants. it's a great place to have a discussion on immigration. is daca a hill the democrats are willing to die on, as the saying goes? should they be? back in a moment. you know what they say about the early bird...

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last year the research center published some eye opening statistics on america's immigrant population. u.s.'s remarkable in many ways starting with the fact it has more immigrants than any other nation, out of a total population of about 320 million people in 2015, 43 million were born in another country. more than 13% of the population. they say two citiy dwarfed the

rest. with political battles pitched, i thought it was a perfect time and place to dig deeper. joining me now is hilda solis. steve phillips is a best selling author. he's a regular contributor to the opinion pages of the "new york times." his column there last week entitled trump wants to make america white again. let me start with that provocative title. you say that the democrats should call the trump immigration policy what it is and they're scared. endings plai explain. >> they clearly, the washington post had a good analysis of this. the proposals are designed to undo the policies which are the finally eliminated the prowhite

preferences. from 1790 to 1952, the official restriction on immigration in this country, as you had to be a free white person. that was the policy of the united states. upheld by the supreme court. you really only got a chance in 1965 when you had no race based immigration. that's what trump wants to go after. post has done the analysis showing the impact will be to make the country whiter, reduce the immigration of people of color. it's very clear and quite unapou unapologet unapologetic. the dpremocrats are fearful not enough white people will stand up against that. >> when you look at this, what i wonder about is are the democrats more kind of shrewdly navigating this space because the country is what 70% white? if you take very extreme

positions on immigration are you worried about the backlash? >> well, here in los angeles, it's very different. of i think we are much more progressive than other parts of the country, much like, however, new york, i would say, but i think, here, we have been able to see more elect the officials of diverse backgrounds in particular latinos, asians, we see a grossiwing acceptance. we have for the first time, women, openly lgbtg individual. we have an african-american, latino. we represent 10 million people about and i would say 3 million in our county of immigrants and 1 million undocumented. that's why we're not allowing this administration to lead us down the path that wants to segregate our communities. we're far beyond that. >> one of the things i hear from

people who are generally supportive of immigrants, generally like the idea, is the whole issue of undocumented immigrants and the breaking of the law. that it's one thing to support immigration, it's another to reward law breaking. how do you get around that issue? these people did break the law. >> well, the whole question of who is illegal and legal in this country, depends on your interpretation of the status quo for crimes in this country. this country was stolen from the native americans. where, here in california, which was taken by force from mexico. so one could argue that everybody is here illegally except the native americans. and so if you -- >> but that's a long time ago. >> exactly. what is the statute of limitations. there are people who have been here for decades and decades who have been contributing and good

parts of the country, and availab valuable part to their community. what point do their contributio contributions morph to their ear pa part of it. >> when we come back, what do we do with the dreamers? daca recipients, children of undocumented immigrants. it's an issue democrats have made a stand on, but the right says that allowing them to stay is like allowing the children of bank robbers to keep those ill-gotten gains. i'll ask me guests about that when we come back. we took legendary, and made it liberating. we took safe,

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and we are back with l.a. county supervisor and activist talking about the politics of immigration. let me ask you, hilda, l.a. is

one of those cities where there's talk of sanctuary cities, talk about standing up to federal law enforcement. i mean, this sounds like what you're saying is that local officials should violate federal law by not enforcing it and not helping federal law enforcement enforce it. again, it must -- i think it would sit uncomfortably with a lot of americans if you were to describe it differently. when i think about the civil rights government, this was the argument of the southern states. they were not going to enforce federal law because it violates our culture and values. so, shouldn't local democratic officials enforce federal law whether they like it or not just the way in which they wanted local southern officials to enforce federal law? >> well i think for us, here, we have gone a step beyond. we have abided by i think rules of the game that do protect the safety of our communities.

no one is here saying that we want to have criminals. no. we know what that means for the community but we also know there are good law-abiding people just being picked up because they happen to be at the wrong place or wrong time. they came in through no fault of their own. a and you have another population of people that overstayed their visas, from china, europe, russia, south pra africa. >> steve, what do you think. this is cha-cwhat used to be ca- >> well the presumption the law is a, moral, but also sensible the. we have immigration quotas that were designed to make the policy more equitable. you limit immigration to roughly 25,000 people per country to every country in the world. any country in the smaul country in europe or mexico, which is right next door. it's not illogical or in

inexplicable that the largest numbers without papers come from mexico and china, the largest country in the world. we have to have a policy based upon reality and facts. it's not like there's just one line and everyone gets in it. >> that's an argument to change the policy, no the to violate the law as it exists. >> that's why i think a lot of people are coming to the issue can we agree on daca, the children. they didn't in their minds break the law and sneak into the country. they have been there their entire lives. they see themselves as americans. children. can we start with them. >> let me ask you. there are people on the right who say that's like saying a of lawbreaking. why should they reap the benefit? >> many have left their countries because of civil warfare, poverty, crime, trafficking, all kinds of

different situations. we have a policy in the united states where we allow for refugees to apply for political asylum. many didn't have the means to monetarily come in that path. some of these came in as young as six months as infants and the only culture they know is ours. i don't think they crossed the line in terms of criminal violations, and that's where i do differ with those other opponents who say, oh, well, they're breaking the law. guess what, the laws are flexible. we should be flexible. and the reality is they have made economic contributions. if we were to get rid of even 8 million individuals that currently work in our system that are in the underground economy, we would see some hemorrhaging in terms of job loss and economic strife in different parts, i think, of our country. >> steve, when you look at daca, certainly there does seem to be a majority in favor. but i'm intreigued by your

thought that the democrats should be easier on this. the polling i've seen suggests that the public is pretty -- i don't know -- you can read it different ways, but they're skeptical about the idea of too much immigration. >> i would break it out in two different levels. the polls make it very clear in terms of the daca, in terms of the children, there is two-thirds-plus support bipartisan. everybody supports there being a solution for the youngsters. and so that's an issue. why can we not be more resolute, more forceful and apologetic in that regard? what i'm pushing democrats to act on is to take a stronger stand in terms of reframing this issue. so if the discussion is, well, people are breaking the law and there's criminals coming over here and we have to protect our safety, that's one argument that's really a losing argument for democrats. if the discussion is that there is an effort to socially engineer this country in order to benefit and prefer white

people, which is what is happening and what has been the history of this country. there was a whole effort in the 1920s. even then, it was, which white people are better? should which parts of europe should people be coming? and this whole notion about blank whole countries the president was talking about, that's the same mindset around he wants to prefer white people. if you have that discussion and if democrats point that out, most people in this country do not agree with that. >> we have to leave it at that. a pleasure to have you both on. next on "gps," we are here in glamorous tinseltown. but it is not all fancy cars and mansions. we'll tell you about a staggering problem of poverty in a city with great pockets of immense wealth, when we come back.

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i'm in l.a. this week, and you might know that los angeles means the angels in spanish. but many don't know that some of the original settlers who arrived here in 1781 gave the early incarnation of this town a longer spanish name meaning the town of our lady the queen of the angels on the river. luckily the long name did not stick, but it brings me to my question. which world capital holds the guinness world record for longest place name? baku, beijing, bangkok or beirut. my book of the week is "the second amendment."

by michael waltman. he makes us realize just how the democracy has been. the streets are home to those without a home in los angeles. last year there were nearly 58,000 homeless people in l.a. county, accounting for an astonishing 10% of america's entire homeless population. tents and camps exploded downtown near the subway. it was considered to be a state of emergency. but the number of homeless people has actually climbed another 30% since then. why has the crisis reached such epic proportions? officials point to rapidly increasing rents in a strong economy compounded by a mental health crisis and insufficient resources for those facing

homelessness. citizens of l.a. are not turning a blind eye. in the last two years, new funding measures have passed to send more money to combat the crisis. but even so, a new report from the county's homeless services authority found that despite this new funding, there are still over 20,000 beds needed to fill the gap against the uphill battle of bureaucracy and communities that are resistant to welcoming the homeless into their neighborhoods. some oadvocates are turning to more innovative solutions like this prototype brought by college students that allow pods to be erected in parking lots. let's not forget the growing crisis of l.a.'s shanty town. the answer to my gps

challenge is c, bangkok. that's 168 letters in 21 words. the locals don't use the official name much, of course, but only foreigners call the city bangkok. thais usuallily call it cruntae which means the city of angels. from the american city of angels this week, i will see you next week. hello, everyone. thanks so much for joining me. i'm fredricka whitfield in new york today. it's been nearly two weeks since the mass shooting in parkland, florida and since more questions than answers as pressure mounts on washington to do something to prevent another tragedy like this from happening. congress will get back to work tomorrow on capitol hill, and students of marjory stoneman douglas high school also set to return this week as classes resume on wednesday. meanwhile, a brand new cnn poll showing president trump's approval rating matching the