>> impossible. she hasn't offered any of that evidence. when i was skeptical about this, the man said we're trying to slow down deportation right now. we could have gone home to russia very quickly and not have to be suffering in this overheated jail. we're trying to wait for the americans to come and talk to us and that hasn't happened to us. >> thanks very much. that's it for me. erin burnett outfront starts right now. good evening. breaking news. defients aant and speaking out, nunberg refusing to come ply with the sue pea thbpoena. he's challenging robert mueller to arrest him. he's going to be my guest onset in just a moment to talk about this. we have the subpoena that

muller's team issued him. it's two pages. if sam nunberg was not a household name, he is now. he was fired from the kpacampai for offensive and racist messages posted online. tonight he's refusing to come p comply with the mueller subpoena. he doesn't want to waste his time turning over receiver single message. he's already talked to muller's investigator and said he thinks mueller's team may have something on the president. nunberg is accusing carter page of colluding with the russians. he's saying president trump knew about the trump tower meeting. the one between trump's son, his campaign official, russian lawyer, jared kushner. they were all in the room.

sam is saying the president knew about it. they have all said he didn't. we're going to talk to him about all of these accusations and the evidence he has. sarah sanders was asked about sam nunberg and tried to shut him down. >> just said on msnbc moments ago i think he, meaning the president, may have done something during the election but i don't know that for sure. your reaction. >> i definitely think he doesn't know that for sure because he's incorrect. there was no collusion with the trump campaign. anything further on what his actions are, he hasn't worked at the white house. i can't speak to him or the lack of knowledge that he clearly has. >> sam will be here in just a moment. how are white house officials responding to nunberg's comments and the point he's making behind the scenes tonigh

>> good evening. you heard the press secretary say right there, he doesn't work here at this white house and there is a bit of anger from white house officials who say he's not worked for president trump even in the general election campaign. he didn't make it through the summer of 2015. that said they are very concerned. i talked to several officials who said they could not stopwatching all of these interviews this afternoon. it was bizarre. it was interesting. it was something that they could not control. that's the biggest worry. it's monday evening. that has him testifying on friday. how does this week play out? the white house did not want to have this in the headlines this week. they wanted to talk about anything else except this. they thought they turned the page from this. this investigation continues to come nate everything here. they point out again and again that he doesn't have the president's interest at heart. he was fired from the campaign.

that said, it's something that everyone here has been watching. i suspect they will be watching the interview coming up. >> thank you very much. sam, thank you. >> i was a campaign advisor from 2011 to 2015. when everybody was laughing at donald trump. >> you were campaign advisor from 2011? he was thinking about running that long? >> yeah. for sarah huckabee to start criticizing me and i know you may not like the way i say it. she should shut her fat mouth. >> i don't find that at all. i find that completely irrelevant. i'm bizarre. it's pretty bizarre what her father does. that's pretty bizarre. >> okay. >> we won't get into it. >> i don't think she used the word bizarre. i think he doesn't know that for sure because he's incorrect. >> i don't no for sure.

>> she had her people do background. >> what does her appearance have to do with it? >> i didn't mean -- no. i meant she should shut her mouth about talking about me. not about her appearance. >> i wasn't planning on asking about this this early in the interview but you talked about her fat mouth, i want to ask you about this. it is important. you've done six interviews this the past four hours. bizarre was a word that some white house officials were using to describe some of your interviews. nuts is another one. that's probably where you got it. >> i would like whoever said that to say it on the record. >> let me ask you this. you talked about her fat mouth. you called her a fat slob in another interview.

i reached tout a trump ally. what would you say? this person told me, i just want to be direct because he's not the only one to say it. you're drunk or off your meds. at least half a dozen other cnn reporters have received similar messages. is this a hit job or is something wrong? >> i don't care what they say. i really could care less what the trump white house has to say about me. they have a president, as you know, what was your poll that you produced last week. he's at 38%. >> you talking about approval rating? >> yeah. any of them to criticize me, i could tell you, if roger and me were in there, trump would billion at 55%. >> roger stone? >> yes. they can say whatever they want me abo about me. they're doing a terrible job.

>> are they trying to do a coordinated hit job on you by saying about your state of mind? >> i don't know. this is the first time i've heard about this. they are more than -- they can do whatever they want. >> i wanted to give you chance to respond because it's something people are talking about. it's important you have a chance to respond to it, sam. >> i would once again say that sarah huckabee is a terrible press officer. trump has a 38% approval rating. that the republicans are going to lose the house in the midterm. that's a fact. they can say whatever they want about me. they have treated roger and me terrib terribly. roger won't say that. >> he won't. that's not what he said at all. when we reached out to him about what you've been saying that he's been treated terribly. i'm going to look for his exact quote. he said that i was briefly part

of the trump campaign and have been the president's friend and advisor for decades. >> he was. he was. the minute your former colleague, by the way it's a joke that your network hired him. the minute your former colleague was hired -- >> who are you talking about? >> cory lewandowski. >> former campaign chief. >> that was a joke. the minute he was hired there were two separate roles for people like roger and me. i can tell you as we have discussed before, i came up with the wall. i came up with a lot of that messaging. >> what do you moon two separate sets of rules? >> two separate rules. trump decided he was going to treat roger and me in a very bad way and going to treat corey,

his special corey in a different way because he valued him more. that koultd have been something i learned after working for him. >> why is roger not giving the same message as you are tonight in. >> i don't know. >> when is the last time you spoke to the president? when the the last time you spoken to him? >> i have not spoken to him since a week before he swore into the presidency. once again i know he may not value this or whatever but i'm a supporter despite what he thinks. >> even though you're raving about his 30 something approval rating. >> i think he should with doing better. i think he's done very good things on foreign policy.

i think the economy is doing well. i don't like he's spending money like a drunken sailor. i don't know why because we have a 3% gdp. he shouldn't be doing this. >> i want to talk a bit more about this. it asks for communications with various people. he played that role. close advisor. michael cohn, paul manaforand ste -- manafort. >> i've thought about this in a previous interview. i would be willing to go in for

testimonyo be fair. paul manafort, rick gates, crooks. they didn't pay taxes. >> they haven't been charged. >> i believe they were crooks. i've heard they have been very loose about money. i'm not going to have mueller and his team target roger. roger is like a surrogate father to me. i'm not going to do it. i'm not going to do it. >> why though fall on the sword for someone else? i sd that veask that very speci. susan mcdugall was involved in the white water investigation. she went to prison for 18 months. >> mueller is not going to send me to prison for this. this is ridiculous. i never spoke to carter page. >> why wouldn't you be happy to provide your communications if

there aren't any? >> i'm not going to g over when i have 15 e-mails a day with roger stone and steve bannon and have to spend 80 hours. you could go to prison for this. in the communications do not show collusions with the russians, why wouldn't you just go in and testify about them? what do they show that you're so embarrassed of? >> they show nothing. >> you said earlier you talk about people you hate. are there things you were just talking smack about them? >> no. that's not the reason. what i don't like and this is a separate issue. i always find, erin, there are two separate rules for republicans and democrats. why did they not ask hillary clinton and hillary clinton's folks to produce these e-mails? >> perhaps they will. i know you've been bringing that point up today. that would be a separate investigation. right now we're talking about

the specific investigation about donald j. trump. >> he did not collude with the russians. vladmir putin is too smart to collude with trump. >> do you have a lawyer? >> yeah. i have a very good lawyer. >> what has patrick told you? is he happy about these interviews today? >> no. he didn't know about any of this until i did it. i had a 3:00 p.m. deadline. i was going -- >> to respond to mueller? >> to respond. they sent this to me on friday. who am i? am i some crook. trump fired me within six weeks of campaign. >> did you hit the deadline and told him no? >> no. >> you had a deadline and you didn't respond in. >> i started going over my e-mails and i was like this is ridiculous. what do i have to hand over all

my e-mails to a federal investigator and why because they don't like me? because they don't like roger stone. they don't like steve bannon. when did i talk to michael cohn after i was fired? it's ridiculous. november 1, 2015. >> i still don't understand, if you don't have kplcommunication why you would something to hide? >> i have nothing to hide. >> so what? what i don't understand is why you'd be willing to go to prison? i think that's what's confounding. >> i'm not going to get sent to prison. >> someone has been before. >> one person. you're mentioning from a long time ago. do you think robert mueller is going to send me to prison for this? >> i don't know. he would be within his rights. you've been thumbing your nose at him all day. >> here's what upset me.

i went and spoke with their investigators who are highly professional. i've only said nice extremely professional. it really showed me, i was very impressed this was the government runs. now they want me to go back. i have to spend more money to go to d.c. more money on legal bills and sit -- am i allowed to earn a living? >> is this about money? >> no. it's about the fact i don't think it's right. also, i don't think it's right, once again, i don't think it's right in regards to the way hillary clinton was treated by the fbi. let's be honest, i've said to you repeatedly. we spoke the other day. >> we've spoken before. i said that trump, trump caused this inn vevestigation. >> you have said that.

>> do you know the way i've been treated by donald trump. i hate the guy. for me -- >> is there's something we don't know about how he treated you? other than private. was there some kind of conversation that you could tell us about? >> i was told i was not going to get fired when those facebook posts were released. i thought that corey and hope hicks had released them. i was told i was not going to get fired. i was then called that morning when donald trump did sunday interviews with the sunday shows. he did those interviews. then trump called me afterwards to tell me i was being fired and that they were issuing a press release. he called me a low level part-time consultant. i was being laughed at for years. i supported him. he was like -- i shouldn't have

been but he was like a father to me. he treated me like that when he fired me and he let corey and hope hicks collude -- by the way, mysteriously then corey's -- then trump's cell phone is released the next day. it was leased on a monday after i was fired on a sunday. i was told trump told me, he told me in that conversation he was going to keep it quite. >> trump told you? >> yes. corey called multiple reporters. >> then he referred to you as a low level. >> he let them draft that statement. >> is this payback to him for treating you so badly? >> pay back for him was i worked for ted cruz. let's get it out. i worked for ted cruz. i endorsed ted cruz. i did that at the point where he was going around campaigning with chris christie who got around five votes in new mexim

hampshire and allow him to run his campaign. >> do you have immunity? >> they say you're not a subject. when you go in there what they say is as long as you tell the truth anything else you tell them you're not going to get charged for. sgr everything you told them they say they will not charge you for? >> yeah. back to this point about the taxe texts. >> they can get them from your service provider. >> i was thinking to save time, i've been advised against this, maybe i'll just give them my

passwo password. >> then you're going to comply. >> then i would. >> you willmply. >> i have no problem of complying. i will not sit 15 hours after i've sat with them. >> is there more to these two page pages? >> no. there's something else i didn't get from my attorney and say you have to show up to the grand jury next friday. >> march 9th. >> that's what i've been told my my lawyer. >> to your knowledge he did not respond before 3:00 p.m. today. sdplm. >> you haven't talked to him today? >> i tried to contact him and he didn't call me back. >> on these text, the former u.s. attorney. he's been tweeting about you today. >> what did he say? >> i'm prepared to bet special

muell mueller's team has the e-mails. >> i hope they do. why do i have to sit here like i'm a paralegal? why do i have to sit here and produce these things? i can tell you that steve bannon and roger stone, i e-mailed with them like 30 times day. it's how we communicate. >> you're assuming they have those communications. you're unwilling to answer in front of a grand jury. >> i'm not going to answer in front of a grand jury if they do not explain why i have to go in now. vladmir putin is too smart to

collude with donald trump. donald trump won't keep his mouth closed. >> how do you know donald trump would not collude with the russians or allow others around him to do that? >> there's an issue when trump said that he liked putin being in syria. he said that. it was inherent that trump understood because he has a very good understanding of middle america that average americans at that point where we're not going to remember -- remember isis was chopping off american's heads at that point. barack obama was pretty pathetic. he had withdrawn from iraq. this is my opinion. he had withdrawn from iraq and we had watched isis take over this wide wrath of land.

i said, at that point, i said look, it could be a problem. people like marco rubio will come out against us. jeb bush. they are being very anti-russian. rand paul, ron paul supporters wouldn't. it wouldn't be so bad if trump took that position. >> i know that you have said that you do think that they have something on donald trump. >> yeah. >> investigators. >> i don't know what it is. >> you're confident in that. what made you feel that way? >> i can't explain it unless you were in there. that's the answer. you're not going to like that

answer. i can't explain it. they have something. now, remember, we learned about trump towermoscow. trump signed a letter of intent to do business with russia. michael sent the thing -- >> the tower that never went ahead. >> right. i had never known about that, obviously. we had never -- until i read about it. i just get a feeling he did something. by the way, you're going to be fine when it comes out what he did but people like sean hannity, lou dobbs will be very embarrassed. >> by what it is. let's talk a pause. we'll talk about the trump tower meeting. we'll take a quick break and be right back. let's begin.

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message. donald trump himself did not attend this meeting. >> what do you think? >> you tell me. >> i mean if you see it, if you see there's something he said, i already saw that within a week. i don't know why he couldn't just admit he knew about this meeting. i believe he did. if he did, i don't think -- you're talking to somebody who doesn't think anything. you're sitting here talking to somebody. >> you're saying he knew. you believe he knew about that meeting. >> i think he knew it. i think if i had to guess don informed him about it. once again, don gets an e-mail. the e-mail says that hillary clinton was indicted by whatever the equivalent of a russian --

the russian justice -- department of justice. okay. why should we know about it. i wanted to bring something else up with you and i was thinking about this. you've been very fair. thank you very much. did they ask hillary clinton who made a point not to protect her e-mails, did they ask her -- >> i don't think we got provided the subpoenas as you have provided those to us. you're saying you think he knew in advance. i don't think there's anything wrong with that. you think there's no way that meeting happened without don

himself knowing about it. >> the travesty of that whole thing was when it was reported by the new york times initially that they handled it so badly, the communications of it. it was no problem with it. you remember that week. i remember watching your show. why not just tell the truth. what was the big deal. there was no deal there. >> what about carter page? he's another trump aide. he's on the list. i think he was dealing with the

russians. >> now, i don't think that he had the power within the campaign but i think he was trying to put himself off, that he had this au he could help with the gas company. he gives that speech that summer. yeah, sure. i think he colluded. >> he responded today as you have been saying. he calls your claim laughable and he texted to our congressional reporter ask him for specific rather than more mindless rhetoric. >> why did he go to russia that summer? what went on in russia. >> that's where you get that? >> i don't think he knew about the e-mails. i don't think anybody in the

campaign coordinated with russia on the releasing hillary clinton e-mails. i believe vladmir putin did do the e-mails. when they put it on another network that they start saying it wasn't russia. no, it was russia. it was russia. julian assange coordinated with russia. >> you said he was your mentor and father figure. he did communicate with wikilea wikileaks. >> why are you putting your reputation online? >> here's my problem. what i think is and once again, you may -- it may not sound reasonable. i think there are separate rules

for republicans and democrats. the fact that heillary clinton got away with what she did with what her husband was doing during barack obama's administration is ridiculous. thi they decided and they wanted to go after them for years. i'm not going to be a part of them targeting and trying to set up some case against roger. roger and i, once again, i don't care what the white house says. we were treated terribly. we did not help we got fired.

i planned out to have my facebook post. we were treated terribly and we had no contact with the campaign. we didn't. >> i got to squeeze one more break in. i want to ask you something specific about those ten people and the president's trip to russ russia. we'll talk about that after this. . and back pain made it hard to sleep and get up on time. then i found aleve pm. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid... ...plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. on the only bed that adjusts on both sides to your ideal comfort, your sleep number setting. does your bed do that? it's the last chance for clearance savings up to $600 on our most popular beds. ends soon. visit sleepnumber.com for a store near you. let's team up to get the lady of the house back on her feet. and help her feel more strength and energy in just two weeks yaaay!

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meeting. he are saying he wants you to come from front of committee and talk to them about this and to understand what you're saying about how trump wouldn't have known about this meeting. what do you say to adam schiff in. >> i like what roger said. i think adam is trying to run for senator. i think he's probably to use this. i think the democrats will probably win the house. >> is that a yes or a no? >> i would go there. sure. >> you'd go there but you won't bo in front of the grand jury. >> i don't think i've been clear about this. i won't sit for 80 hours to produce every e-mail i had with roger stone and steve bannon. >> are you saying -- if it's a less amount of time that you will? >> maybe. i don't know. i just think this is ridiculous.

once again, say what you want and i've said that rosen steen was right to launch this independent counsel but after i sat there and i cooperated with them every communication i had with steve bannon, roger stone. >> because they asked for it and it's the special counsel. >> we'll find out. we'll find out. >> is it a game of chicken for you? >> no it's not game of chicken. after i went in there, what do we have -- what do all of us have to do to continue with this -- what are think going to continue to ask us for stuff. it's ridiculous. >> does come back to the question that we've all had is

if you have nothing to hide, why not answer every question they have. who cares? it's 80 hours out of your life. you don't do it, you could go to prison. why not? just answer the questions. >> this goes back to something else and, by the way, whatever trump did, if he did something, whatever trump did, he was going to get away with it. she shouldn't have fired comey. i don't like the fact they treat hillary clinton people like this when investigating the e-mails. did they? did they? >> we don't have the subpoenas. i'm not sure. sam, i have to ask you one other thing. it's an awkward question to ask. you're sitting very close to me. we talked earlier about what people in the white house were saying to you. talking about whether you were drinking or on drugs. talking to you, i have smelled alcohol on your breath. >> i have not had a drink. >> you haven't had a drink.

because it is the talk out there. i know it's awkward. let me give you the question. no you haven't had a drink. >> my answer is no. >> anything else? >> no. >> no. >> no. besides my meds. >> okay. >> anti-depressants. is that okay? >> i'm just saying. >> they're pathetic. their president has a 33% approval rating. what was the number? >> i don't know the exact number. it was in the 30s. >> whatever they want to say about me that's fine. roger is very nice. he has a relationship with the president. he's very loyal to the president. i don't care. i'm the one who was treated terribly by him. i'll say that a thousands times.

whatever they want to say, they've tried to use that against me. this was their big thing. i'll tell you one thing, i didn't steal from the campaign. i didn't have an affair with a married man. all i did was work for him for four and a half years. now i get this crap after legal. >> sam, i appreciate your time. i know you gave us a lot of it. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> that was sam nunberg with all of this important story he's talking about today. next, what can robert mueller do to sam nunberg now that he's defying him. the question sam was asking to all you jeffrey toobin joins me next. claritin-d relieves eight, including sinus congestion and pressure. claritin-d relieves more.

want us to do about what woulthis president?fathers i'm tom steyer, and when those patriots wrote the constitution here in philadelphia, they had just repelled an invading foreign power. so they created the commander in chief to protect us from enemy attack. the justice department just indicted 13 russians an electronic attack on america that the chief investigator called "warfare". so what did this president do? nothing. and is he doing anything to prevent a future attack? the head of the fbi says no. this president has failed his most important responsibility- protecting our country. the first question is: why? what is in his and his family's business dealings with russia that he is so determined to hide, that he'd betray our country? and the second question is: why is he still president? join us today. we have to do something.

the act of defiance. you just saw it. the former trump campaign aide sam nunberg refusing to comply to the subpoena by robert mueller to appear before the grand jury. he could go to prison if he refuses. he said he didn't care. he thinks it won't ever happen. >> i'm not going to get sent to prison. >> how do you know that? someone has been before. >> one person. fine. you're mentioning from a long time ago. do you think robert mueller is going to send me to prison for this? >> i don't know. he would be within his rights.

>> our chief legal analyst joins me along with bob mueller's special assistant at the justice department. jeffrey, your response to sam. >> well, he sounds like a troubled person. he's really wading into some big, big trouble. just start with the basics. he's got a grand jury subpoena. he's due to appear on friday. you cannot say it's ridiculous and not show up. >> he said he had a 3:00 p.m. deadline and if he didn't meet it but his own lawyer hasn't talked to him today. >> i don't think mueller wants to get into a big circus with this guy. i'm sure what mueller will do is go to the lawyer and say, look, let's work this out. maybe it didn't have to be friday. maybe monday. maybe next week. he can hot just defy a grand jury subpoena because he doesn't feel like it or feels like he was ill treated by donald trump two years ago. he has to testify. if he doesn't testify, if he

continues this defiance, mueller is going to lock him up. he can lock him up until he cooperates which could be as long as 18 months. i don't think mueller wants to do that. mueller does not want a side show like this. he just wants the guy to testify which he's obligated to >> michael, what happens here. you keep hearing sam in that interview, i think trouble is fair word but saying he's not going to lock me up. what do you think he's going to do? there's a precedent here and other people he's subpoenaing. you can't ignore this and let this defiance go out there. what does bob mueller do? >> the way the process works is he's received a grand jury subpoe subpoena, he can come in and narrow the scope or quash it. if that's unavailing then he has to offer his testimony.

generally speaking the prosecutor will go to the supervising judge and say this person is refusing to answer my questions. they will hold a hearing, a show cause hearing, at which the person will have an opportunity to present the basis for their not testifying. could be he's asserting the fifth amendment. he could have legal privileges. the court will determine whether or not that showing is adequate. they can hold the person in civil contempt and find him or imprison him as jeffrey said for the length of grand jury. it's not mueller who sets the penalty, it's the court. in this civil contempt proceeding like we saw with susan in the white water case, the judge says you can get out of jail tomorrow if you cooperate or you can sit there as long as the grand jury is in session. it's an indefinite sentence that the court imposes. >> civil contempt is, you don't

get a trial. you don't get a jury trial. it's you go to jail today. that's what the judge can do. i mean this is not a complicated legal process. >> to go to prison. >> what i'm trying to understand is this a personal to him. it's about donald trump. the other part of it that i couldn't truly understand was why he would go so far for roger stone. roger stone can handle roger stone. he kept trying to make it about roj state's attornger stone. this father figure, this mentor. he's willing the fall on the swords for roger. >> i've covered roger over the years. he's very loyal to his people and who gives a great deal of loyalty. i can understand sam nunberg's affection for roger stone. this is not a game about who you like and who you're loyal to. this is grand jury subpoena. this is a criminal investigation. people are put in awkward positions by grand jury subpoenas all the time. unless it's your wife or your

husband where you have a privilege, you don't have a privilege -- there's no such thing as a mentor privilege. you have to testify even if it's unpleasant. >> what's the purpose of if they have done the interview and very professional, he's talked to them. he moved from complete defiance to it's a 50/50 if i appear. this is a moving target. the point is what is the purpose that mueller would have if he's already done an interview of him appearing in front of grand>> t. and when you have your case ripen so when you are ready to take action, you bring those documents or both into the grand jury for them to receive information. there is only the grand jury

that can indict. the fbi doesn't have the power. it is the grand jury who takes the formal legal action. and that is what prosecutors do. >> and mueller has actedosecuto. you do an office interview first . and then you decide whether you want to bring someone into the grand jury. and the idea is that one is a substitute for another is wrong. they do both. >> and what is interesting about this to sme is the substance tht mueller is asking about. we saw in the social media do t indictments in the russians that part. and now we are going to see the hacking ones. >> the important question people

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ask your doctor if once-weekly trulicity is right for you. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ there are two types of people in the world. those who fear the future... and those who embrace it. the future is for the unafraid. ♪ ♪ breaking news, former trump campaign aide sam nunberg speaking with me. several cnn reporters received calls and e-mails. i communicated by text with the

trump ali. given all of this and the talk on social media, i asked him about it. talking to you, i have s not ha. >> you haven't had a drink so that is not true. >> no. >> anything else? >> no. >> no? >> no. besides my meds. anti depressants, is that okay? >> "outfront" joan walsh and steve cortez. what do you make from what we heard from nunberg? >> i thought it was sad. that ending, i'm on anti depressants, there is nothing wrong with that. >> no. >> you did the right thing

asking, and giving him the chance since the whole media has been speculating about this. and i felt like he would have sat here with you all day. he seems lonely. he seems to need to hear himself talk right now. it would be better if he spent time with his lawyer and also a counsellor. whatever sacrificial thing he thinks he could be doing could get him in trouble. >> i never met him. he appeared unwell to me. and quite frankly for any network to put him on is irresponsible. i don't think he was in a position to be talking in front of a live studio audience. >> he received a subpoena from the special counsel so he is relevant. so i would strongly disagree with you, that he is not worthy

of an interview. >> i didn't say he is not news worthy. i am not sure he is ready to be on air. >> that is not the point. >> here is what i think mainstream media rushed to put him on because they thought he was going to give incriminating evidence on donald trump. and he quote said he hates donald trump. he was fired 15 months before the election. so whatever problems he had personally and professionally, those were identified early by the trump campaign. he was not relevant to the campaign. and number three, all of his assertions about what did or did not go on about russian collusion are pure speculation. no direct knowledge about any of that. this is emblematic of the continual efforts of the mainstream media trying to discredit election 2016 --

>> he is the guy that worked for donald trump from 2011 to 2015. he said the president was getting ready to run. that is news worthy. because when the president was getting ready to run is important to the investigation. >> he is almost a separate point but he is important here. bob mueller thinks he is important enough. >> he is a news maker. he is claiming he is going to defy the subpoena. but i think maybe he is going to comply with part of this. this is news worthy. this man seemed to unravel before our eyes. he seems absolutely convinced

that russia got the e-mails and gave them to wikileaks. how he knows that, i don't know. but he wants to keep roger stone out of that. which is interesting. other speculation about trump knowing about the trump tower. >> thisi am going to say sometht you probably will like. and trump knowing about the meeting, he would have no way of knowing that. he was volunteering a lot of information that he wasn't in the position. >> he was fired in 2015. he was fired well before the primary of 2016. so the idea that he knows what donald trump was thinking or what he knew is ludicrous and i think again, what is going on here, let's be honest, the left continues to get lost, get mired in fascination about supposed

controversies and conspiracies of foreign nationals in 2016 rather than the american people of wisconsin and michigan and ohio. >> we are out of time in the so how. i will say the people around the president who were involved and helping get ready to run and running itself is hugely important. thank you both for joining us. anderson's show starts now. >> breaking news up and down the line tonight for the first time an ex-trump advisor openly and loudly defying a subpoena from special counsel. refusing to testify before the grand jury friday. refusing to turn over e-mail conversations. robert mueller wants it, but today talking to gloria borger, nunberg told mueller what he could do with the subpoena. >>