well. >> thank you, chris. we're following a lot of news. what do you say? let's get after it. >> good morning everyone. welcome to your "new day," it's wednesday, march 14, 8:00 in the east. we have special election results. democrat conor lamb declaring victory in pennsylvania. lamb performing strongly in the state's 18th congressional district which donald trump won by nearly 20 points. earlier on "new day" lamb told us how he's feeling this morning. >> i was at a lot of polling places yesterday with cars parked outside that had president trump's bummer sticker on them. he's a popular person here. i think what happens when you campaign in real life as much as possible is that those divisions go away. everyone gave me a fair shake. and i know there are people that voted for the president who also voted for me, and i thank them for hearing me out. >> lamb leads by less than 700

votes. it is such a slim margin that cnn will not call this race at the moment, but if the margin stands this improbable upset in a deep red district could spell trouble for republicans in the 2018 midterms. we're bracing for more shakeups at the white house. president trump signaling he could be ready to dismiss more senior officials after abruptly firing secretary of state rex tillerson. who else might the president fire this week? let's begin our coverage with alex marquardt live in cannonsburg, pennsylvania. alex? >> reporter: good morning, chris. riveting night of political drama in the pennsylvania 18th. we have conor lamb up by .2%. that's 641 votes. at this point there are still votes to be counted but it would be a long shot for saccone. he has said there would be no

decision made, no concession made until all the votes are in. the lamb campaign is very confident they have won. listen to the candidate's remarks from last night. >> it took a little longer than we thought, but we did it. tonight we celebrate regaining our voice and our vote in the great business of governing this country we love. >> we're still fighting the fight. it's not over yet. we're going to fight all the way to the end. you know i never give up. >>. >> reporter: now, the saccone campaign does have legal recourse. there's no automatic recount in the state of pennsylvania for congressional races, but they can mission for one. now, they are huddling with lawyers this morning. we understand -- the saccone tells me there are lawyers from the rnc, nrcc to advise them on what they can do, and they will be making a decision later

today. why is this race so significant? people on the ground, people in washington have considered this a referendum on the trump presidency. trump won this district in 2016 by some 20 points. the last two congressional races, 2014, 2016, the democrats did not even field a candidate. massive amounts of money spent here, some $10.7 million spent by outside republican groups to prop up this saccone campaign. as we're looking forward, however, despite this money and the symbolism, what it may come down to is symbolism. the pennsylvania supreme court decided that the congressional districts were so gerrymandered that they had to redraw the map. looking forward to november, these two candidates could be running in two different districts. chris. >> alex on a cold morning in pennsylvania giving us the cold hard facts. thank you. joining us the chairman of the democratic national committee tom perez.

good to see you. >> great to be with you. >> you think conor lamb pulls this out? what's your take on the state of the decision? >> conor is going to win. there aren't enough votes left for saccone to catch up. it's remarkable, a district trump won by 20 points. conor won because he was fighting for what people are worried about, worried about their pensions, the opioid epidemic and wondering who is going to fight for them on this. i met conor when i was at the justice department, chris, and he is an authentic politician, an authentic leader. just like doug jones, these are folks who are speaking to the kitchen table issues that people care about. that's why he won. this shows democrats can win everywhere. these were basically obama-trump voters who came back to the democratic party. it shows we can win in every zip code as long as we organize. that's why we're winning everywhere. this isn't an aberration.

this is a trend. we won state special elections earlier this year, kentucky, wisconsin, new hampshire. >> the party has done better on the stateside. that's important. those losses on the democratic level all across the country led to redistricting efforts that made it harder for you guys to win congressional seats. that was a problem that was realized. now we'll see if you can remedy it. let's take one step backwards. what was the calculation that led to the party identifying this seat as one you could win despite the 20-point lead by trump over? >> one of the top lessons i've learned over the last year in this job is we can win everywhere. when we invested early in alabama, people thought, frankly, it was a fool's errand. i thought, no, it's not. we can organize everywhere. when you field good candidates and organize everywhere and speak to the issues that keep people up at night, that's how you win. that's exactly what we did in

alabama. that's what we did in places like oklahoma, kentucky and elsewhere. you saw in pennsylvania, a district that donald trump won by 20 points. we didn't even compete there the last two cycles. >> that's why i asked about identifying the race because democrats didn't put up a challenger in the last two cycles. >> what's interesting about that is you look at the margin of victory in pennsylvania in the 2016 election, and district 18, the margin of victory for trump was something like 70,000 votes which exceeded the margin of victory in the state. it shows we have to flood the zone, field candidates everywhere. when we don't do that, that's a shame-on-us moment. that's how we won virginia. we fielded candidates everywhere. we're doing this across the country. it's knost just candidates, it's good candidates. >> a different type of candidate. conor lamb is not a cookie cutter democrat.

he checks boxes that ordinary democrats don't. whether it's pro life, gun policy. is this a nod toward a new move in this country to pick candidates who may not meet all the traditional criteria but are competitive in the district where they're going to run? >> i've always said, and i learned this from my former boss ted kennedy. we should never confuse unity with unanimity. i unity understands, and this race really illustrates it, that what we agree on far exceeds what our differences are. conor lamb talked about his grandfather and how he was a democrat because it was the party of f.d.r., the party that fought for the labor movement and fought for good pensions and

wages and health care. donald trump is fighting to take away people's health care. donald trump has had an opportunity to help the mine workers down there to get access to their pensions and he hasn't done it. mitch mcconnell hasn't done it. these workers knew that. we can win everywhere. whoever says you have to either compete for white working class voters or for communities of color, i categorically reject that false choice because we've won in alabama. we won here in pennsylvania, a district that's 93% white. we helped elect people like the mayor of atlanta, the mayor of charlotte who are remarkable african-american women. we can win everywhere. we are winning everywhere. we're organizing everywhere and that's why democrats are back. >> parties aside, it was refreshing for a lot of people to see someone mounting an insurgency in conor lamb, but not just going after the president and republicans, but giving people something to vote for not just against. tom perez, if this win holds up,

congratulations. let's see what the party does next. >> great to be with you chris. >> republican congressman charley dent says the result in the 18th district should be a warning sign for the gop. >> i think most republicans realize we're running into a very serious head wind, hurricane-force win. we have to be ready for it. some are better prepared for these fights than those in safer seats. if you're a republican member in a pretty safe seat like this one was, that's where i'd be nervous. >> joining us now is cnn senior political commentator rick santor santorum, a former pennsylvania senator and before that a congressman from that 18th congressional district. great to see you, rick. >> great to be with you. >> you're the person to talk to. it appears at this hour that conor lamb holds this narrow victory? >> only a couple hundred votes left to be counted in greene

county. that's not going to be enough on the raw totals. there may be a recount. if there is a recount, again, 600 votes is what it's going to come down to. that's a lot to overcome in a recount. i'd rather be in conor lamb's shoes that's rick saccone's shoes at this point. this was a perfect storm for the democrats. they had a very good candidate, a candidate that was not picked in a primary, but picked by political pauls who did a good job in matching someone for the district. he ran, as you mentioned, as a very moderate blue dog democrat, someone who was historically fit with western pennsylvania, blue collar democrats. that's what conor lamb ran as. he was a former marine, strong on guns. ha is the kind of guy that you used to get elected to western pennsylvania. in fact, most of pennsylvania that the donald trump party doesn't nominate anymore and

doesn't run. certainly doesn't run for statewide or national office. if there's a lesson learned, to fit the candidate for the district. conor fit that district. secondly, charlie is right, there was a head wind out there. there's no question that donald trump is creating some problems across this country. i would add one other thing, to point to congress. the signature issue that the republicans ran on that motivated the republican base for the last four elections was to repeal and replace obama. not only did they fail last year doing it, but they've given up doing it and they're poised here in the next couple weeks to pass a bailout of obamacare. that is a huge deflator of the base. if you look at what happened in this race, everyone talked about it through the entire course, the intensity on the democratic side was 20 points higher than on the republican side. why? because republicans are deflated because republicans aren't delivering on what they said they were going to do, and you have the excitement caused by

donald trump and frankly a lot of the personal things he's doing that energizes the other side. >> it's very interesting both you and charlie dent are using this hurricane lingo. you say it was a perfect storm to work for the democrats. he says that the republicans are facing in the midterms hurricane-force winds. so how nervous are you as a republican? >> well, i think it just -- it's more imperative on the republicans to actually try to get something done here in the congress to show that they're in touch with the concerns of people out there across america, that the inaction on just about everything other than taxes -- i think most people will find the tax reductions to be a favorable thing, but, look, it also raised the deficit. people are concerned about that, particularly in districts like this, heavy on seniors. conor lamb hit this point hard, about the threat to potential cuts in senior programs because of the increasing deficit. so in districts like in

pennsylvania, it's the second old estate in the country per capita-wise. those issues will resonate a little more. you need to find answers in washington that are going to connect with voters. whether it's an infrastructure bill or a health care bill, something like that that's going to say, look, we understand the problems out there, we're going to do things to address it and deliver on our promises, you're going to have a lot of problems come november. >> very quickly. president trump, as you know, campaigned for rick saccone as he did weeks ago for roy moore. should president trump keep campaigning for republicans? >> i think if you look at a couple things, every poll i was tracking and i was checking daily was showing conor lamb was up four or five weeks for the last couple weeks of this campaign and ended up winning by .2. i don't think there's any question that, again, intensity, that the president coming the weekend before increased intensity among republicans and caused that race to close at the end.

the problem was created in part by the intensity driven by trump overall, but he was able personally to go out and raise the republican intensity to turn out more vote and close the gap. if you look at the absentee ballots submitted before the trump visit, conor lamb was running ahead of where he ran on election day. i think that goes to show you, yes, trump can go in and energize, but he can't do that in 50 congressional districts next november, and he's not going to be effective in that way. they have to do something to raise republican intensity here between now and election day and that means they've got to start delivering on your promises. >> rick santorum, thank you very much for the perspective. >> you bet. thank you. the white house seems to have a revolving door and it keeps spinning. who is next to go in trump's firing line? we discuss next. are defined by the things we share. and the ones we love.

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with president trump's world view. so what does that mean going forward for the next year? >> i don't know that it's parroting. it's certainly apparent that the president is putting together a year two team that is much more inclined to allow him, the president, pursue his basic instincts, his gut level approach to things whereas team year one there were a bunch of people he put into place that sort of were i think trying to be boundaries that he would bump into. this stead he wants to go ahead with his gut on things, whether it's foreign policy or some do mystic policy and not be encumbered by people trying to rein him in in some way. >> what's the plus-minus on the move, chris? >> the plus is he gets someone much more in line with his world view. i think donald trump liked the

idea of rex tillerson, exxon chairman, titan of industry, a guy no one saw coming, sort of an outsider. i think he liked the reality of him. the idea of tillerson was clearly not what donald trump imagined. they clashed repeatedly. tillerson seemed to think he had his own portfolio, his own space to operate in. trump didn't view it that way. the plus is you get someone who broadly speaking echoes what your beliefs are as relates to foreign policy and diplomacy. the minus is you fired someone via twitter and promising more first to come. there's a lot of turmoil and chaos, and i think donald trump welcomes that, believes he thrives in it. i don't think everyone likes it and believes they thrive in it. i think it makes it hard to do

the everyday work of the government and the long-term strategic planning that's required to get a president who is, at best, in the low 40s, into a better place politically speaking before november or you're going to see more results like pennsylvania 18. if you see more results like pennsylvania 18, then democrats are winning back the house. >> here is the list according to our reporting of who may be on the chopping block. there's david shulkin, va secreta secretary, jeff sessions, h.r. mcmaster, john kelly in the crosshairs for some time. ryan zinke. >> ryan zinke and scott pruitt might be able to breathe a little easier on that list. when he's in this kind of mood and this kind of public display

as chris was describing of that chaotic nature that he likes to create, you wouldn't feel very comfortable being any one of those people. >> shulkin has to be the low fruit, right, an obama holdover and seems to have gotten caught in terms of what he said and what is true with his travel. >> that and the ben carson headlines have been a disaster for the president. >> could he get rid of ben carsons? >> he can get rid of anyone he wants. he could. he fired rex tillerson via twitter, chris. >> the shutup and dribble crowd at fox say that's not true, it happened on friday, he knew -- >> he knew something was coming. >> he was a little vague on it. his undersecretary said they t got. >> secretary tillerson had every intention of remaining because of the progress he made on

national security issues. he established and enjoyed relationships with his counterparts and will miss his colleagues and enjoyed working together with the department of defense in an uncommonly robust relationship. >> that shows he didn't want to leave, but in terms of timing when he was told, what do you have, chalian? >> i think what we understand is that the white house and chief of staff john kelly made it clear to tillerson when he was over in africa at the end of last week that the gig was up and that the president was sort of done with him. and then i don't think the secretary was out on a tweet on tuesday morning at 8:45, but i think he was aware his time in the administration had come to an end. that's all semantics, guys. we should note it is not tenable for a president of the united states to have a secretary of state going around the world on a different page from him. no president of the united states should have that much

daylight between himself and the secretary of state. that really is a relationship that needs to be fully aligned. >> i don't think you can deny a president your cabinet. they should pick who they want. how you fire people matters. this inability is going to breathe disloyalty in his house. this is about what continuity he has in terms of the loyalty to him, how strong people are in their positions and also your operational continuity. now this may be a better fit for him with pompeo, this is new leadership, you'll have to redo who is at the top, redo the priorities. it slows things down. >> there's people that have to be confirmed. you don't get to say you're this, you're that. they have to be confirmed by the senate. that takes some time. i think turmoil and constant churn is not typically how successful operations, whether

that's political or otherwise, operate. you see -- take sports. the san antonio spurs are successful for a lot of reasons, one of the reasons is that gregg popovich has been the coach for a very long time. there is a steadiness that exists there. look across any very successful sports team, for the most part you'll see a continuity of management and leadership. it's hard when everyone is kind of doing the -- to make sure they're not the next guy or woman to be let go. we have a president of the united states who not only fires the secretary of state let's just say in less-than-ideal circumstances, then how do you not feel -- if you're betsy devos, shulkin, carson, zinke, kelly, mcmaster -- i left people out. but how do you not get distracted by that day in, day out, when you're trying to do the operational maintenance and management of government?

you wouldn't be a human if that didn't happen. >> i'd just tell them to keep checking the president's twitter feed if they need to know their status. >> a good way to run the government. >> david, pennsylvania's special election. what does this tell you that conor lamb appears to be at this hour the winner? >> poised here for a major upset when every last vote is counted in a district that trump won by 20 points. this is a huge deal. i know the republicans will do their darndest to say our candidate is not so great, this is true. there are going to be two big conversations. one, the worrisome conversation inside republican ranks, just how big is this democratic wave we're facing in november and what can i do to make sure i'm not wiped out by it? is it possible to not be wiped out by it? that's a conversation on the republican side.

on the democratic side there's going to be a whole conversation about -- the path forward for the party, is it through people like conor lamb? can we not be completely identified with identity politics and look more for people who do fit their districts? there's going to be an internal battle as it emerges and tries to find its leader for 2020, and the results last night is going to be the beginning of that conversation for that party. >> chris cillizza, david chalian, thank you very much. former trump adviser roger stone denies he had any contact with wikileaks before the stolen e-mails were leaked. former trump associate sam nunberg tells a different story. he joins us live next. oh! there's one.

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roger stone is denying a report he met with wikileaks founder jewel jan assange in 2016. former trump campaign aide sam nunberg says stone told him he was contacting assange. now robert mueller wants the details of that conversation.

joining us is sam nunberg who testified last week as part of the mueller probe. nice to have you here. >> thank you very much. >> you were interviewed by mueller's team on friday? >> by his team. >> did they ask you about whether roger stone met with wikileaks? >> in general. first of all, i had the voluntary interview which was earlier. last week i had grand jury testimony. i don't want to undermine the evidence they're presenting to the grand jury, but i think it's pretty obvious that they asked me about this. i won't discuss any other issues. yes, they asked me about the conversation i had with roger. >> so this is a big deal because roger stone is obviously a long-time donald trump confidant, and if he was meeting with wikileaks which then revealed they had these hacked e-mails from john podesta and the dnc, that's a close connection, that's a big deal. so does it seem to you that that's a focus of robert

mueller. >> i warned roger during repeatedly during the 2016 summer, do not associate yourself with julian assange. for two reasons, one, at that point it seemed pretty obvious that hillary clinton was going to win and there was surely going to be a special counsel into these matters. if there was a democratic majority in either body of congress, then he was going to be called. little did i know that donald trump would be elected and we still have a special counsel. >> how did roger stone respond when you said don't deal with wikileaks? >> roger is going to do what roger is going to do. we're very stubborn people. roger's argument is different than mine. i don't believe jewel jan assange is a journalist. i don't believe that when julian assange releases information that shows methods, shows who is helping the united states. that's not the same as releasing

the pentagon papers which is a study showing -- >> fair enough. but you do believe roger stone met with wiki sfleeks. >> no. i believe he told me he did. >> what did he tell you. >> i was trying to reach roger. we can talk 15 times a week or cannot reach him for two weeks. i said where have you been? he said i met with julian assange. >> now he says he was joking. here is what roger stone says about this this week to "the washington post." >> i wish him no ill will, sam can man eye cli and persistently call you. >> true, by the way. >> stone said recalling nunberg had called him on a friday to ask about his plans for the weekend. i said i think i'll go to london and meet with assange.

the idea i would meet with him is ridiculous on its face. >> alisyn, in "the washington post" story, i did not come out and contact josh foss si and say i want to broadcast to the world. josh said they had somebody on background that said roger had told them he had met with julian assange, but roger's quote was directly discussing -- >> i know. i get it. >> i just want to explain that. >> you weren't the source on that. i get it. however, he says it was a joke. why didn't you see it as a joke? >> well, it's irrelevant how i see it. my issue is when i go to a voluntary interview and i'm told i'm not a subject or target, there's only one violation to get me in deep trouble which is not tell the truth. if you don't tell the truth, if you're not a jikt or target, you're in trouble. >> so your truth is that you still believe that roger stone was serious when he told you he

met with julian assange. >> i don't want to get into the specific specifics, but the e-mails roger told me were coming out -- i will actually. will roger told me the e-mails were going to be about the clinton foundation. i asked roger if assange had any new information about benghazi. now, look at the e-mails assange released. they had nothing to do with benghazi or the clinton foundation. >> but there is something fishy about all this because roger stone tweeted all these things -- we have a few of them. this was before wikileaks put it out. so before wikileaks ever put out their hacked e-mails of the dnc, he says, trust me, it will soon be podesta's time in the peril, #crooked hillary. >> that was going on when the manafort ukrainian stories were coming out and people like roger and me assumed that podesta's brother who profited and made

money, and then roger wrote an article in "the daily caller" subsequently that talked about podesta's brother working with -- >> you're saying this is a lucky guess? >> no. time in the barrel means time in the barrel, you're going to have an article about you, you'll be exposed as well. the others are very problematic. >> problematic ones that roger stone seems to know. on wednesday, hillary clinton is done, #wikileaks. julian assange will educate the american people. payload coming. i mean this is a man who knows something. next, jewel jan assange will deliver a devastating expose on hillary at a time of his choosing. i stand by my prediction.

he sounds like he knows something. >> roger will have to speak to that. once again, i'm not a jan assange supporter. >> but you are a roger stone support supporter. have you hat a split? >> we've not had a split at all. >> is he comfortable with you talking about him? >> is he comfortable? i don't know if he's comfortable or not. the issue is, once again, this story, as i told you before, i did not approach "the washington post." somebody else did. and i was called throger immediately said he was talking about the conversation i had which is why i responded publicly about it. >> got it. you have said about what you've gleaned from the special counsel from robert mueller's team -- let me quote you. you say this is a big deal and you've said if they have something on donald trump, it's going to be a very big deal.

>> right. well, first of all, in my humble opinion, if they find something that's financial which i don't believe -- i've never seen any corruption around there, it has to be something that then candidate trump did. the minute he left, he went down that escalator. it has to be annish yu like that. i don't think that -- when you meet these people, these aren't bureaucrats, these aren't the type of people sitting around collecting 120-plus a year and surfing the web. these are people that can work in any fortune 50 company and they're not wasting their time and they would wind this up if they had to. i also believe that's why the president needs to eventually meet with mueller's team if he really wants to wind this up and expedite getting it done. >> it's not a witch hunt in your mind? >> no. let me explain why. when i was first called by the fbi agent, the tuesday after the wolf book came out: i was frankly rude to him. i hadn't looked into it that much. i stayed away from it.

as i have to do, one as a lawyer and one in general in new york, i look at what the other side is saying. there was a book called "collusion" and things like that. donald trump, had he just fired comey and sticked to the rosenstein mags neal, i think he could have gotten away with the lester holt interview, but then he has the russians in the oval office and doesn't allow american photographers in? there's something going on there. >> very quickly, the last time we saw you was the sam palooza to be on all sorts of cable shows. >> by the way, we beat fox news that hour, in total and demo. >> watching the ratings, sam nunberg is a big draw and it sound like you are. but people were concerned about you. >> sure. >> how are you doing? >> i'm great. i'm great. i was very stressed out. >> buzz you were called by the special counsel. >> it wasn't because i was called by the special counsel. the voluntary interview is more

stressful than the grand jury testimony. in the grand jury all they want is the information. i want to say, too, they never asked me for my opinion, especially in front of the grand jury. facts, facts, facts. what do you know firsthand? no hearsay, no even double hearsay. i think maybe i did too many interviews at that point. but it was a fun day. we're still talking about it. i don't want to keep repeating the line, sam had a tv meltdown. i think it was great tv. i think erin for the interview. >> sam nunberg, thank you very much. >> thank you. britain's prime minister is set to take action against russia after the nerve agent attack on a former russian spy. we have a live report with new developments next. so, that goal you've been saving for, you can do it.

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we're following breaking news. the british prime minister is speaking and just announced that the uk will expel russian diplomats after the nerve attack on a russian spy. let's bring in cnn's nick paton walsh with the breaking details. how is the message being received and what will be the impact? >> reporter: she's still laying it out. the detail is really 23 russian diplomats have a week to leave the united kingdom. she accuses them of being undeclared spies, undeclared espionage activities. she says there's a high level contact wean the uk and russia would cease. she said they'd be doing their best to prevent it from re-establishing itself. she said after, frankly, in her words, the sarcasm of russia in

terms of its response to uk requests, that they explain how the nerve age against sergei skripal, they had no choice but to hold russia responsible. i'm pretty sure we'll see some elements of visa-bound individuals. s the big question is exactly how tough will the even tiert of this response be? it has to react now. i think many believe the uk and have to be sure ik will take personal harm because many think last time in 2006, since then not doing enough. >> nick paton walsh. please keep us in the loop. 23 russian operatives who have been identified as being relevant but not registered as

state actors and diplomats, they're out. they have one week to get out. it does remind us of obama and his administration getting rid of 35 for the same kind of reason here in the united states, not attached to a nerve agent, but raises the question what will the trump administration do? they kept saying when we get the facts. you've got the facts. >> and what will the new state department team and national security team do about this? we'll take about all that and analyze it next. ee the sign? when i needed to create a better visitor experience. improve our workflow. attract new customers. that's when fastsigns recommended fleet graphics. yeah! now business is rolling in. get started at fastsigns.com. but he's got work to do. with a sore back. yeah! now business is rolling in. so he took aleve this morning. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. tylenol can't do that.

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so we've been listening in to the british prime minister theresa may. she says they have no question that russia is behind the nerve agent attempted murder of people on their soil, and as a response they're going to expel 23 russian operatives. they are people the prime minister says have been identified as working in the interest of that state but not registered. they have one week to get out. now, what will this mean for the

united states? the white house has said they stand by their ally. here is what they need to stand by. here are the words of theresa may. >> no explanation as to how this agent came to be used in the united kingdom, no explanation as to why russia has an undeclared chemical weapons program in contravention of international law. instead, they have treated the use of a military grade nerve agent in europe with sarcasm and contempt and defiance. so, mr. speaker, there is no alternative conclusion other than the russian state was culpable for the attempted murder of mr. skripal and his daughter. >> there's theresa may. how will the united states government respond? let's get perspective from robert beaer and phil mudd. bob baer, strong words by the prime minister there, theresa

may. a very different message coming out of the white house, let's wait and see, sarah sanders wouldn't mention russia. rex tillerson did. now he's out. the president seemed to fas late saying when we have the facts we'll accept the facts but they don't have the facts. they do have the facts. they say it was russia. what are the implications for the u.s.? >> well, first of all, we had the facts right from the beginning. this nerve agent is unique to russia. the cia found out about it in uzbekistan. horrified by the lethality of this thing. only one place it could have come from was russia. the way i understand it, the only person who could have authorized this is vladimir putin himself. so the facts are not in dispute here. i would just say may has president gone far enough expelling russian diplomats. it's got to go way beyond them because vladimir putin knew he would be caught in his attempt

on this russian colonel. something has to be done about russia. we simply cannot pass this off as a one-off. it's happened too many times, and this country needs to follow its obligations to nato. there's no question about it. >> look, that's the sticking point, would be nato and what it requires of people. now, the pushback will be, listen, this is their problem, we'll support them. there's no reason for the u.s. to jump in every battle. president trump did say she'd stand by his ally. is there any room for being conservative here? >> heck, no. i see zero room. i will tell you by the end of the week, maybe the end of the day, the united states will do something. this is not a democrat or republican issue. in national security circles this is going to be seen as a test of an alliance that has stood solid since world war ii. if you're in a british seat i guarantee you're on the phone today saying are you with us or

against us. the americans have to lead. one quick comment, chris. this is not just about two people subject to an attempted murder in the uk, this father and daughter. the russians are trying to reassert empire. that's the acquisition of crimea, the partnership with bashar al assad who has used chemical weapons in syria. this is about the brits and others in europe looking to america saying, not only are you going to respond to this, but what's our leadership from the west and across the atlantic as russia reemerging. this is a bigger test than it looks like, chris. >> it is, and it's in a weird context. the president of the united states seems to be spoiling for a fight with anybody when it konls to words except russia. how will that play out here? bob baer, let me ask you about about something while i have you both. ms. haspel set to take over at

the cia. she shouldn't be judged by that policy and the time and endorsed her choice as cia head. do you agree, bob? >> absolutely. she used to work for me. i supervised her on her first overseas assignment, fact-based, tough. she was not the architect of the torture program. she, better than anyone, will tell you that it doesn't work, torture, and if there's any chance of getting this across to trump it's going to be gina haspel. so whatever she can do to get this guy back on track is going to be helpful. >> we do remember that trump has in the past said torture works. phil mudd, you have said many times that was not your experience. but the criticism will be, hey, we don't care who put the policy in place. if she was someone of conscience, she wouldn't have done this, i'm going to hold it against her, maybe i'll vote against her as a democratic senator because we know the republicans will probably be on board. what's your response to that

criticism? >> pretty basic. everybody who said that forgot the past. let's relive the past, the spring and summer of 2002, the american people including the president and vice president, these are the people who represent american values, we, and i was among them, went down to speak to congress and leadership on multiple occasions. they either said nothing or okay. to ensure this was legal, we went multiple times over years to the department of justice and they said it's okay. the american people have since said it's okay if you look at polling. that's what i'd say, chris. >> appreciate the perspective, gentlemen. who knows better than you guys. bob, philip, be well. cnn "newsroom" with john berman will pick up our important coverage right after the break. please stay with cnn. the fastest samsung ever demands t-mobile, the fastest network ever. preorder the new samsung galaxy s9 for half off. ♪

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new olay whips ageless good morning everyone. john berman here. kaboom. a not-so-dramatic reenactment of the political explosion that went off overnight. a democrat is poised to win a special election that donald trump carried by 20 points. a district no democrat has any business coming close in. it's not official yet but conor lamb leads rick saccone by 631 votes. saccone has yet to secede. democrats can compete in more places than they are in years and have a real shot to win the house next fall. this morning one republican called it a political earthquake, and it is safe to say the party is shaken