i'd of said... i'd of said you're dreaming. dreaming! definitely dreaming. then again, dreaming is how i got this far. now more businesses in more places can afford to dream gig. comcast, building america's largest gig-speed network. this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from london today. on today's show, a secretary of state fired. a poisoned spy and the kremlin holds elections. first up, the american secretary of state gets fired via twitter. what does rex tillerson's departure mean for america and the world?

then, a poisoning in britain sets on a major international incident with russia. >> the united kingdom will now expel 23 russian diplomats. >> where does the former spy go from here? >> it's also election day in russia. but that really begs the question, will putin be president for life? i'll ask one of his opponents, but first, here's my take. if confirmed as secretary of state, mike pompeo will arrive at a department that has been battered by proposed budget cuts, hollowed out by resignations and vacancies and neutered by president trump's impulsive and personal decision-making style. but pompeo's most immediate challenge won't be rebuilding the department or restoring morale. it will be dealing with an acute

foreign policy crisis of the president's own making, regarding the iran nuclear deal. pompeo will have to take on a challenge soon. president trump has agreed to meet with kim young un before the end of may, but before he even sits down with him to discuss a nuclear deal, they have to discuss how to handle the preexisting deal with iran. from the outset, mike pompeo has cheered trump in his hard-line posturing toward iran. trump announced that america will no longer abide by the nuclear pact unless the european leaders agree to fix it. they seem sob worried about more than cosmetic changes and iran refuses to renegotiate. that means by may 12th, the united states is set to pull out of the iran accord, which could lead iran to do the same thing, and we start its nuclear

program. this would happen at the same time as the summit in north korea where the united states will be trying to condition vince north korea to sign a similar agreement. recall that iran did not have nuclear weapon, only a program that could have led to them. still, the deal required the iranians to scale back significant aspects of their program, dismantling 13,000 sen tro fusions, and shutting down their plutonium react eor in ir. the agency has cameras and pt iners in iran at every stage of the nuclear fuel cycle from mines to labs to enrichment facilities. iran has, in fact, abided by its end of the deal, and even mike pompeo conceded as much. the iran deal is not perfect, but it has stabilized a dangerous and spiraling situation in the middle east. with a deal to unravel an already similar region would get

much hotter. in an interview, this man affirmed his kingdom would go nuclear if iran did. this is the self-inflicted crisis. there was enough instability in the world that the administration did not need to create more. pompeo needs to know that he should solve problems, not produce them, and preserve the iran greagreement and spend timn north korea. take a page from his boss' book. remember what president trump said about nato? >> i said it was obsolete. it's no longer obsolete. >> he promised to label china, a currency manipulator and then decided against it. he insisted talking to north korea would be a waste of time, and then eagerly announced he would. whatever pompeo said months ago

is now ancient history. he should declare right now under the circumstances the deal is worth preserving. there are significant costs to the nation's credibility and reputation. if washington keeps reversing its positions on core foreign policy issues, yet there are greater costs to stubbornly persisting with the wrong policy. so mr. pompeo, repeat after me. the iran deal was bad, but now it's good. for more, go to cnn.com/fareed, and read my "washington post" column this week. now let's get started. it was a week filled with foreign policy sbeintrigue in o fell swoop or tweet to be precise, the president fired his secretary of state and named a new one. he admitted to fibbing to the ka

n nad yan prime minister, and of course, there is the big row between britain and russia over a spy poisoned on english soil. joining me now, the former secretary of the united kingdom, he is now the president and ceo of the international rescue committee. we have the president of the council on foreign relations. and here we me in london is the editor in chief of "the economist." what do you make of the tillerson firing? have you ever seen anything like it in all your years in diplomacy? >> no. rex tillerson was inexplicably abusive toward his own department. he tried to take on the state department rather than with the state department. but the manner of his dismissal and more important, what that portends for the future of the american foreign policy, is a

grave concern. i can't think of a more dangerous moment when you have crises around the world, not just north korea and iran, but the tragedy in yemen, the man-made tragedy, and dysfunction in washington, the kind of the tillerson firing represents and then you have belligerence on the part of the president that portends some really very, very major decisions coming up. i think that the rising fear is on the part of the administration because until now, the combination of tillerson and mattis has helped keep things in check. >> when you look at it, what is the -- what is the personnel change meaning in policy terms? >> well, i think you have gone from a weak and ineffective secretary of state, but one that was broadly viewed as a grown-up who held the conventional view of alliances and the global order, to a man in mike pompeo

who is someone clearly who the president gets on with, and who knows how to flatter the president. who is somewhere between a hardcore realist and not america firster. you have trump there saying i'm going to do it my way, and you have had president trump in the campaign, he was all holds barred. he wanted to make america great by distancing the world as it was, and when you start it in. foreign policy, and we're seeing him get rid of the people that he doesn't like or don't look good on tv, and bring in people to his liking. >> you have said that tillerson should resign because he obviously didn't have the confidence of his boss. the historian says rex tillerson is the worst secretary of state since 1998, do you think that's true and do you think that the

pompeo announcement is also a big policy shift towards a more hawkish or america first direction? oh, i'm sorry. let me ask you, do you feel like when you look at the new configuration, is it something you're likely to see new policy on? for trump, this is in some ways having people who are congenial around him, and it seems like he didn't enjoy the company of rex tillerson. >> i think that's right. he doesn't like people who may or may not have called him a moron, but we definitely -- i think we now have people who have a different view on certain important things. as you said earlier in the show, on the iran deal, mike pompeo

shares the president's view, and rex tillerson didn't. before that, you have that rex tillerson was, you know, in favor of the climate change deal. he was much cleaner on alliances. on north korea, he didn't know anything about what was going to happen in terms of direct talks and partially the fact he was a weak secretary of state, but it was also partly that the president didn't respect him. is it better to have someone as america's chief diplomat who speaks for the president, which i think mike pompeo will do much more, but also you have someone who is much less likely, perhaps to restrain the america first agenda? >> all right. we are going to come back with this panel, including richard haas, and we will talk about trade and russia when we get back.

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and we are back with david miliband, and ropefully richard if we can get him back. david, big foreign policy challenge in your country. what to do about russia? we all know the circumstances, but i want to get your take has theresa may been tough enough in their response to what they believe was vladimir putin personally ordering a murder on british soil? >> i think she has made the right start, but it can only be the start because this is an attack not just on the uk, but it's the first use of chemical nerve agent since the second world war on european soil, and that is an attack on the western alliance. the absolute key going forward will be two sets of allies that she needs to bring into play. the first are the obvious allies in the u.s. and around europe

where they need to work together for targeted financial sanctions that really address people around putin as well as putin himself. the second thing is that we have to understand how russia has been building alliances elsewhere in the world. it has been reaching out to saudi arabia, and israel. those countries too who like to see themselves as close allies of the u.s. or the uk, they need to be part of a very clear demonstration to president putin's regime. the attempts to discord around the world, and undermine fundamental aspects of global stability, are not acceptable. frankly russia is now a member of the u.n. security council that behaves like a rogue state. unless that is met with a very clear and very united response, it's going to get worse. >> let me ask you, david, briefly. the leader of your party, the labor party in britain has been much less tough on putin and russia than you just were. does that worry you?

>> what's extraordinary to many of us, and i live in new york now, running a humanitarian agency, but watching the uk debate what one see social security a symmetry between what jeremy corbin says and what donald trump says. both of them seek to evade pointing responsibility to russia. both of them have a deep skepticism about the west that they end up excusing or at least finding ways to avoid, pointing the finger at russia undermining the system, and while skepticism about intelligence is important to policy making, when skepticism is greater of the west than of russia, it's worrying indeed. >> richard, i think we have you back. let me ask you, where does the administration go from here? are we likely to see a more america first policy, a neogod policy? give us the picture. >> the administration now has

also sorts of challenges in its inbox. some it inherited like north korea, and some as you suggested are its own making. the iran on the trade thing. we have already got a new secretary of state, but the rumors are true, and it's a question of when and not if we have a knew national security adviser and the constant is the president. the challenge is dealing with the real world as it is, and my crystal ball is no better than yours. i would simply say that this administration is on the edge of the most difficult two or three months of foreign policy in my memory, and rule of thumb, maybe only one nuclear crisis at a time. so i would argue for shelving the iran one, and focusing on a reasonable approach to north korea and basically walking back the issue on tariffs. it's very hard to confront your adversaries at the same time you're in a trade war with your friends. >> he really believes in the tariff issue.

this seems to me, possibly the biggest danger out there. >> i think he absolutely believes it, and i think the one thing that donald trump has been very clear about in the last 30 years is he doesn't believe in multilateral trade and he thinks america has had a rough deal, and he plans to trade that. one person we can't talked about is the new white house chief economic adviser. he is someone who was brought in i think in part as a tv pundit because he looks good on tv, but he is a free trader. it will be interesting whether this man can convince the president not to be as extreme on trade as he would like to be, and the one area that i think you really need to look out for is what he does with china because china is the place where he has the biggest grievance on trade. the stuff didn't really hit china very hard, but there is a question, will he slap tariffs

on for the theft of international property? we can see things get nas ity vy quickly. >> richard, president trump did hire ludlow, and he said, i like what you said on tv, and you're very handsome. i recall president trump said he liked what he heard you saying on tv. i wonder if you would have gone to him, would you be secretary of state right now? seriously, tell me what you think of the personnel. you have got 60 seconds, but have you ever seen more chaos in the administration, you know, in just the kind of staffing of an administration? >> no, and the president's making a dangerous mistake. he is hiring people with whom he is comfortable, but that's not what you want as president. you want people who will speak truth to power, experienced and confident. he may end up in the cabinet and staff he wants, but it's far

from the staff and cabinet that he needs, and the contrast potentially between this most daunting of worlds and inboxes, a russia that has become a real outlier, china and venezuela that's unraffling, the middle east that's unravelled. the pressure on this set of people and the chaotic process at the risk op being self-whatever. i wrote a book about a world of disarr disarray, and the combination of a world and administration in disarray, that ought to keep people up at night. >> as you say in a tweet of you yours, peter navarro, one of the president's chief economic advisers said, he thought his job was to find ways to justify -- find analysis to justify the president's views, which is a rather bizarre way to look at it. you would think that you first do the analysis and not just try to justify whatever the president's views were.

do you worry it's now going to be yes men all the way? >> well, again, the secretary of defense is not a yes man. the question is though whether he will be marginalize. and we'll see who comes in as national security adviser ultimately, and mike pompeo, there's an old saying, where you stand depends upon where you sit. my question for mike pompeo, is he in favor of tearing up the iran agreement when he was on the hill, or does he now take responsibility for the full dimension of american foreign policy? have a serious, practical approach, maybe entertaining an agreement with the north koreans because we're not going to get full de-nuclearization. does he decide not to tear up an iran agreement when we have nothing to replace it with? will he moderate the tariffs? he has to decide i think whether he will be secretary of state or whether he is going to be a confidant of the president. there is tension there, and i

think how that plays out could be critical. >> all right. we have got to go. thank you. fascinating conversation. when we come back, we'll dig deeper into the russia story with a terrific panel. ♪ for all the noses that stuff up around daisies.

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diplomats and he retaliated. we have the author of the last known book called "a very expensive poison," and we have the pulitzer prize winning historian, and we have bill browder who was once the largest foreign investor in russia, who has become one of the fiercest critics of the putin regime. what do you make of this affair? what is the significance of what happened? >> the significance is that the russian government used chemical weapon, a middle grade chemical agent which it would have known, would have been traced back to moscow, and that's because they invented it. and in the city, they carried out the brazen murderer of somebody who had been a russian

spy but traded in a spy swap for people who were based in the united states, and in other words by doing so, russia broke all kinds of unstated rules, you know? you don't attack spies who have been traded and pardoned. the use of a military grade chemical weapon in the middle of a crowded city center of a small city, all kinds of assumptions that we make about how civilized countries behave inside one another's borders were broken, and the message had to have been one of disdain for london. we don't believe you're going to do anything to us. we are above the old deals and arrangements and we don't care anymore. >> why would putin do something like this? it seems provocative and reckless. is it, you know, is it a new kind of aggression? what is going on? putin is supposed to be a smart guy. what is the strategy here? >> well, i think there's an interesting question about

timing. this attack happened two calendar weeks before today's russian presidential election. it plays well with conservative nationalist voters inside russia who maybe otherwise who wouldn't have gone to the polls. that's one dimension, but i think ultimately the target of this attack is the russian elite. i think skripal was mainly the instrument. it's to anybody inside the russian elite whether they are an oligarch or a spy who is thinking about cooperating with the west in general, but i think i would say with west intelligence in particular, that we can strike you at any moment. we will damage you, your family as well, and i also think it's partly to do with robin miller and his investigation. bear in mind that the espionage operation to influence the 2016 isolation involved a lot of people, and they will be thinking very hard and carefully before telling anything of what they know. >> bill browder, what to do

about this because, you know, i was struck by alexa niavalny, ad he says look. the west responds so far, and britain's response so far has the kremlin laughing because this is precisely what they wanted. they wanted what he calls another installment in the tv show that they are running called, "look, look, the west hates us," and that that, you know, feeds putin's nationalism and his base. so where do you go from there? is this crisis provoked for that reason? and if that's the case, the more you oppose him, the more it plays into this game. >> first of all, kicking out 23 diplomats is not going to have any impact on putin. it's not going to prevent this from happening again. this is the second time that something like this has happened in the uk. lit venn yenko was killed in

2006, and the way to deal with this whole situation is to go after him with targeted financial sanctions, so go after him and the people around him, his cronies and the oligarchs who look after his money by seizing their assets in the uk. everybody in the uk says we don't have any -- our cup boards are bare, and that's not true. what we have elsewhere, they keep their property in the west, and if we go after that, this wouldn't happen going forward. >> you wrote a "washington post" column saying the reason london is not responding more strongly is because it has been in collusion with russian oligarchs laundering their money and al w allowing them to move their assets and you say, go after oligarchs and more money in london. >> that's true, and it's although not just london, although that's the primary place. we have not acknowledged the dee

to which we are complicit in putin's power. he showed how he took money out of the russian state, he and people around him. he laundered it abroad, and brought it back into russia and brought property, and that's how they engineered the rise to power and western banks, western tax havens, western havens and lawyers and shell companies, all kinds of people particularly in london and also in new york, miami and paris helped them all along the way, and this is why they have so much disdain for the west because they know -- they think of us as it's corrupt, you know, we can buy them. we can buy their lawyers. we can buy their political parties. i think the reason why they were so sure of themselves interve intervening in the u.s. election is partly that. we can use money to get anything. we got ourselves to power using western money sort of leveraging our money in and out of russia using western institutions. why not keep going? >> stay with us.

when we come back, we'll talk about just that. russia and trump. new reporting reveals that contacts between russians and the forum that helped the trump campaign target voters, what to make of that. it's ok that everyone ignores me while i drive. it's fine. because i get a safe driving bonus check every six months i'm accident free. and i don't share it with mom! right, mom? righttt. safe driving bonus checks. only from allstate. switching to allstate is worth it. and lose weight with contrave.

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methods. what do you make of this report that cambridge anylitca that tried to help the trump campaign bring out voters and suppress voters and the russians had some contacts? which had been previously denied by both sides. the contacts were through a big russian oil company. is that a direct tie to the kremlin? is it possible this was something just unrelated? when you read that story, what did you make of it? >> i was deeply disturbed. it was an astonishing investigation published today, and of course, it's not like your regular oil company. it's an appendage of the kremlin, and i think the big point here is the way in which unscrupulous powers like russia can take advantage of the porousness of the western system and the fact that we're open,

and for decades, the kgb was trying to reshape european and american politics, but now these methods have been updated for the age of facebook and twitter and social media, and what we're seeing is an astonishing ability to microtarget people, and to push people to the extremes to try to polarize the conversation and what putin has been doing is instead of trying to instrumentalize social divisions in europe and america and elsewhere, it's for their own advantage. it's scary, and our democracy is in a more precarious and perilous state than at any other time in the 21st century. >> bill browder, you know, the reason this is potentially important is we know the russians know how to do cyberattacks and now how to hack. they know how to use facebook, et cetera, but they don't have a

reputation for having a deep and detailed understanding of which demographics in rural ohio and michigan to suppress and bring out and that seems to have been provided by cambridge an lit ka. if that is how they got the know-how of where to do this, that does suggest that there was -- i don't know what one would call it, but it suggests that someone was helping them in the united states. >> if this link turns out to be true and, you know, there are people who as anne was talking about before, there are the western enablers in all differen different fields. there are lawyers and investigators and now apparently there are election and analyzer manipulators and they are doing it for money. they don't see it as treason or being unpatriotic and they are doing it for money, and to that extent, the link is proven and it's highly disturbing. you have a major russian company

under the thumb of vladimir putin somehow involved in a situation where somebody knows how to microtarget 50 million voters. >> do you think the trump administration's response to the poisoning, you know, in general, is it getting tougher? does it feel to you like, you know, that period where trump seemed strangely unwilling to criticize russia is over or are we still in that kind of world? >> i think his response to the poisoning was peculiar. we made an initial comment saying it sounds like it's russia. maybe it's russia. he hasn't tweeted about it, which is his preferred form ofs communication as we know. he doesn't want to say it's russia and a break of the rules and we're standing by our ally. i was struck by the fact that john mccain made a much more clear statement about who is responsible, and it's true. the administration that has signed onto a couple of big statements together with germany and france in support of the uk

and our ally and so on, but it's very pro forma and it doesn't come from him, and there remains something peculiar about his attitude to russia as if he is afraid to attack them. he doesn't want to attack them or seem to be criticizing them and whatever apart from -- whether it was kal bridcambridg working with lukeoil, who are whatever his exact role in that was, we don't know. but there is something in his mind and something that is keeping him from acknowledging what russia is and the kind of threats that they pose to the united states. >> we have to leave it at that. pleasure to have you all on. next on "gps," it is election day in russia. we will take you to moscow for the latest news. ar. when it comes to hibernating, nobody does it better. he also loves swiping picnic baskets. hee, hee, hee yoooogiiiiiii!!

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russians have been voting for their next president this weekend, but i can say with almost certainty they will re-elect their current president, vladimir putin. let's go to moscow with cnn's senior national correspondent, matthew chancellor standing by. it's a strange sort of election, so i want to throw at you, three pieces of polling that i have seen recently. "the washington post" particular, an interesting package, and it was vladimir putin's approval rating which is still at around 82%, and i'm wondering when you look at poll numbers and you see it is done by reputable independent often western polling agencies, what do you sense on the ground? are those numbers real? are people scared to say something or is putin genuinely popular? >> reporter: well i think this,

fareed, is an underappreciated fact about russia and about vladimir putin. yes, i think he is genuinely popular, and i know love russians personally and professionally, and despite their western leanings in many ways, i do genuinely believe that vladimir putin is the right kind of leader, the strong kind of leader as they would characterize him, needed to manage a country as diverse and vast as this, and putin placed of that of course. he also plays to this hypernationalistic card which is that russia under putin is a strong country. it will stand up to interference and intimidation from the west. we saw that most recently the day before the election when putin's foreign ministry announced its retribution to britain and upping the ante by closing down the british council

and the consulate in st. petersburg and, you know, we thrives on this idea that he is seen as somebody who is a strong leader, who will stand you to the west and yes. i do believe that although there are a lot of people in russia that despise him, there are far more who think he is the right guy for the job. >> let me ask you, matthew, again if looking at these polls -- there are two more i want to esshow you and get your response. there are numbers of people who regret the collapse of the soviet union, and putin said this was the greatest disaster of the 20th century. look at the number of russians who agree, 58% of russians still believe that the collapse of the soviet union was a mistake or they regret its decline, and this final one which strikes me as interesting. do you believe russia as an enemy, and of those who said they do, 22% believed it was the

united states in 1999, and now it's 68% think it's the united states. so my question to you, matthew, is russia now, you know, of a mood that they wish they were the kind of great power they were in the days of the cold war, and do they really want to stand up to the united states for specifically? >> well, i mean look. >> reporter: i think that one of the things that putin has done is give russians back a sense of their national provide, which they lost so dramatically and suddenly when you think about how the soviet union collapsed back when that massive geopolitical event took place. they were on equal footing at least in their minds with the united states, and they were suddenly reduced to an impoverished nation that had to go hand in hand looking for food even from other countries. and it was a deeply humiliating

experience for many russians that fell off that perch, and, you know, they clung on. they have clung onto vladimir putin as their leader who can give them their pride back, and that's past been one of the main reasons for his enduring popularity today that he has given russians back their sense of pride, and i think we shouldn't dismiss that incredibly important factor in this election and in putin's popularity in general. in term of russia's response and russia's attitude towards the united states -- i mean look. there was a moment when donald trump was the candidate, when he was elected president of the u.s., but russians really believed after years of being, you know, kind of jostled around and being, you know, kind of disrespected i suppose they could see it by the administration of those earlier, they thought the situation was going to turn around. they had really high hopes that

donald trump was the president who was going to see the world from their point of view, and so they have been immensely disappointed in the past year and a half or so since the trump presidency began that that did not happen, and i think when your hopes are high, and they are unfulfilled, your disappo t disappointment is greater and i think that's why we're seeing those heightened figures that the united states is perceived as the enemy. >> fascinating reporting. what that suggests is putin will be re-elected, reaffirmed and there will be tough relations between him and the united states and the entire western world. we will be following it, and we will be back. it's ok that everyone ignores me while i drive. it's fine. because i get a safe driving bonus check every six months i'm accident free.

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with pg&e in the sierras. and i'm an arborist since the onset of the drought, more than 129 million trees have died in california. pg&e prunes and removes over a million trees every year to ensure that hazardous trees can't impact power lines. and since the onset of the drought we've doubled our efforts. i grew up in the forests out in this area and honestly it's heartbreaking to see all these trees dying. what guides me is ensuring that the public is going to be safer and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future.

the debate on allowing circumcision of boys is now being reignited and brings me to my question. which country recently introduced a bill that would ban the circumcision of male children? iceland, france, sweden or belgium? stay tuned and i'll tell you the correct answer. now, i want to make sure you're aware of many ways to stay connected with "gps" outside of this weekly show. first, if you ever miss a show, download our podcast and make sure you sub skrub scribe to it. go to itunes or wherever you get

your podcasts and we have a weekly quiz. go to cnn.com/fareedquiz, and you can see how good you are at predicting world events. we have teamed up with good judgment open to allow our viewers to tell us whether there will be world with iran. you tell us what you think. go to gjopen.com/fareed. the answer to this week's challenge is, "a." after passing a law in 2005 that makes female genital mutilation a crime, icelandic lawmakers want to change the wording of the law from girls to children. they say that would make it the first european country to prohibit male circumcision although many icelandic doctors support the bill, it has come under fire from jewish organizations who say it would restrict freedom of religion. thank you for being part of my program this week. i be see you next week.

president trump taking on robert mueller. i'm brian settler and this is "reliable sources," our weekly look at the story behind the story about how the news gets made. there is breaking news involving the mueller probe. president trump's allies in the media have spent almost a year trying to discredit this probe. they have been acting like there is something to hide, but the lawyers have all preached cooperation up until now. they are saying he is cooperate asking going along with it, et cetera. this weekend, that has changed. they are saying the investigation seems illegitimate. one of trump's lawyers says he is praying that the investigation gets shut down, and trump himself is tweeting mueller's name for the very first time ever saying the mueller probe should have never started at all. the president says there was no crime even though people have already pled guilty. he also says the special counsel's office is