so. >> you're republican? >> i am. i voted for donald. there you have it. yes, die hard republican. so we dropped it. then later on maybe a week or two later, an exfriend or old friend of mine started on social media talking about my relationship. she knows everything. he started putting it out there. it was being seen. so i came to johnny one day and said look what she's doing. do i need to worry about this? he's like absolutely. he said you need to get ahead of the story now. before everyone else takes your story and manipulates it. and make it this very ugly thing. you need to control your story and tell your truth. i said you're right. that's what we decided to do. he comes over and he's like you know, our mutual friend that we have found this guy named keith. he's going help you share your

story. >> keith davidson. attorney. >> correct. >> an attorney who was an attorney for stormy daniels. >> i didn't know that. yes. >> and others in this business. >> clearly. >> so what did you do then? you contacted dafd davidson? >> i didn't. johnny did. and a mutual friend. we lunch together and wanted to know details. we sat down at lunch for a couple hours and gave him details. this story is worth many millions and i'm like okay. so we talked about it. and that's when keith brought it to ami. >> did you know that keith your attorney was going to go to ami? which is the parent company which owns national enquirer. >> he said ami i didn't know what it was to be honest. we have a company that will probably want to hear your

story. so -- >> what was the thought of selling this story? in your mind. >> to get me truth out there. i wasn't looking for money. but when he said it's worth millions i'm like, you know. >> that was hard to pass up? >> sure. of course. but if you fast forward, i ended up not wanting to do that deal. so we were going to go to abc and tell the story. just to get the story out there. and for nothing. there was no pay. >> did keith have a meeting with ami, did you? >> we did. >> you told them your story. >> told them the story. they didn't think it was very credible. even though off the record they said dillen bloefs your story. but clearly they said it wasn't believable. >> dillen being? >> dillen howard. with ami. so they had a 12 hour window. to i know im probably skipping around i'm sorry.

they had a 12 hour window to accept the story or not. they didn't want the story. >> had they named a price? or what they might be willing to pay? or had keith said -- >> he had thrown out numbers. many millions. not just millions. so, when they turned it down, i said okay that's fine. i still have to get in front of the story. because it's still getting put out there. so we went to abc. they were very interested in this story. they knew everything. they know everything. and i just got cold feet. i said i can't do it. >> you met with people from abc news? >> yes. we met with the people. they were interested in the story. when it came down to it i got cold feet. i didn't want the story coming out of my mouth. i didn't want anyone to know what i had done. i didn't want anyone to know from his side what he had done. i wanted to keep it a private matter.

it was private between us at the time. >> did you feel a sense of loyalty? >> absolutely. yeah. of course i did. i didn't want to hurt him or anybody. yeah. >> then what happened? you decide not to go ahead with abc. >> i decide not to go with abc i told them i got cold feet. my mother wouldn't be happy with me for sharing this story. again i always put my mom in the mix. but i just backed out. i just backed out. the republican he won the republican nomination. and ami was interested again. >> once donald trump won the nomination, you're saying ami suddenly came back to you with interest? >> to koeith, yes. for the story. >> why do you think was after he was the nominee they came back? >> they wanted to squash the

story. >> you're saying they wanted to protect donald trump? >> i'm assuming so, yeah. the offer which we didn't discuss yetd or haven't discussed. they had offered me a big contract. for work. for modelling. and fitness and things like that. my life has been health and fitness. >> they said you were going to be a columnist. >> i would write columns. i would get one article per month in okay magazine. one article in star magazine for two years. and four columns per month on radar online for two years. and two magazine covers. their reasoning is you're a successful model we want to help you continue and rebrand you. and you're older now. we want to jump start into a new career for you. in really get you out there to work. i'm like this is perfect.

who doesn't what model wouldn't want that? especially an older model. this is great. so yeah, then the side deal was we're squashing the story. okay. it's a win, win for me. i get the work. and my story doesn't have to come out. >> did you know they were buying the life rights to your story? >> i did. i knew i could never talk about him. sure. >> so that was for you this wasn't a non-disclosure agreement. this was a great business opportunity. you're going to get paid, you're going to be able to write columns and launch a new aspect of your career. get the cover of some magazines. and on top of it, you're going to sell them your story. but they're not going to publish it and therefore there's not ramifications. >> correct. >> for the story getting out. >> who wouldn't want to get this work and that work could lead to other work.

who knows where it could lead. of course i was kpoited. >> in essence you were happy to have this story killed? >> yeah. of course. like i said i never wanted to come forward. >> you were going to get $150,000 for it for having it killed and launching a new career. >> well more importantly i looked at it i was doing work. the columns and covers and getting paid for that. and my life story never has to be shared. it was about the way it was presented. it was protecting me. it was about we don't want to tarnish your image. we want to keep your brand wholesome and whole. that's awesome. that's great. that's the way i perceived this contract. it was a win, win. >> have you heard the term catch and kill? >> i had not. >> do you know what it is now? >> i do now. yeah. >> what's your understanding? >> catch is from what i'm learning.

somebody for yourself for example taking a story about somebody you like or care about. and they squash a story so it doesn't hurt you. >> so the allegations -- ami which doesn't do catch and kill. but a number of former employees told the new yorker routinely they have done catch and kill. purchased the rites to a story. done an interview in your case with you. get your story about donald trump. then they never publish it. and they own the rights to it. you can't tell it to anybody else. the story is effectively killed as a favor to in this case donald trump. >> right. >> did you know that that's what was -- that's the allegation of what was going on here. did you realize that at the time? >> i knew the story wasn't going to be printed. >> why do you think they squashed the story? >> back then or now? >> now. >> they didn't want to hurt him.

>> you think it's because of a personal relationship with the guy who runs ami is friends with donald trump? >> correct. >> do you think -- you wouldn't know this. do you think trump would have been aware of of this deal? they were doing him allegedly doing him this favor? >> i wouldn't know. but based on what i'm learning as we're all learning together as we read. and one of the big complaints with why i think my contract is illegal is because his attorney was talking to my attorney. so. >> donald trumps personal attorney michael cohen speaking with keith. >> without me knowing. without my knowledge. i would assume that maybe he knew. i know his attorney did. i can't say he knew. his attorney. >> how do you know michael cohen

and your attorney keith were in communication? >> i didn't know. i'm learning this as you're learning this. it's been reported. my attorneys they know. >> to you the idea that michael cohen would be in communication with your attorney at the time, there fwhoub reason for cohen to be having communication with your attorney because this was a deal between keith davidson, you and ami. >> so why was he involved in my deal. and why wasn't i told. it's not fair. and illegal. >> how quickly was the ami deal done? >> once we agreed upon the jobs the financial payment and things like that. it was done quickly in a matter of a day or two. basically i was going out of town, and i said i'll get back to you in a week. they said the deal needs to be done. i'm like okay. so i think it was done within

that night or the next day. >> do you remember what day this was? or what when this was in the presidential race? >> it was in august. i signed the deal august 6th. it was probably august 5th or 4th that i finalized and signed on the sixth. i can't tell you. i don't remember. >> this is in the last month or two. of the presidential race. >> yes. >> do you think the presidential race had anything to do with the deal getting done? >> when i'm looking back now, possibly yeah. >> how so? >> well, as an american citizen we know that if you don't put all your evidence out so to speak that you know or if you're paying to squash a story or if you're given illegal campaign fund it's illegal.

so i'm new at this. i'm learning you all probably know this. i'm learning this stuff. and. >> would it have been potentially damaging if your story had come out in the last month or two of the campaign? >> i don't know how damaging it would have been. you have seen the other stories about him. that didn't hurt him. could it have been damaging politically speaking? probably not. however, i think it could have damaged maybe family. i don't know. but i mean, it depends on who you ask. it could have damaged i don't know. with that illegal campaign fund. the rumor of somebody's rumor or someone saying they had an affair-over relationship. does that damage people? >> the thought though of telling your story to ami, some people hearing that will think you want money and you want to damage the

president. >> voited for the president. i voted for donald. why would i want to damage him? that's my party. republican party. that's my president. i didn't want to damage him or hurt him. in any way shape or forment but i didn't want to put out the story i didn't want my reputation to be damaged. i care about myself. like i said i was excited about this modelling contract. and writing for the magazines and who knows where that could have went. i love fitness and health. that's where my focus was. >> when you went it ami and had they said okay we're going to run this story and pay you $2 million? would you have gone with that. would you have done that? >> probably not. >> really? >> it's hard to say. probably not. >> it's a lot of money. >> it's a lot of money. but you have your conscience. i'm a different girl today.

i have returned to my roots and my faith. spirituality. i'm going church and involved in ministry. it's not where i want that to go. >> if donald trump hadn't been running for president would this deal have been made? knowing what wrou know now. >> probably not. no. probably not. >> you're convinced now this was in effort to do a favor for donald trump in the last few months of the presidential race. >> unfortunately, yes. >> when you heard the access hollywood tape come out. what'd you feel on a personal level? >> i was disgusted. >> more of her answer to that question next. and the legal consequences she could face for speaking out and how she feels about that possibility. when our exclusive conversation continues. i let go of all those feelings. because i am cured with harvoni.

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and his hand is always on your back or shoulder and always introduces you. i didn't see that side of him. until i started watching tv. and that's not the man i knew. i was disgusted on the comments. i have brothers. my brothers say things. that was bad. >> it wasn't just locker room talk? >> no, i have heard my brothers locker room talk. did he mean to say it? he said it. would he really do it? i don't know. i have noefr seen that side of him. >> when you heard other women coming forward alleging inappropriate touching and inappropriate behavior. what'd you think? >> again, i was kind of mortified. i was like wow, is he capable of that. i didn't see that. clearly, women have their stories and their opinions. and if they were violated like that they should come forward. >> ami put out a statement

saying that you can talk to the media. you're free. >> i saw that statement too. but according to to their attorney, i can't. there will be financial ruin. >> they own the life rights to your story. >> they do. >> they can transfer according to to the contract they can transfer the life rights to some other publication, correct? >> i don't recall that part. i'd have to see the -- it's been a while since i read it. >> ten months after the election. david pecker had lunch with you. what was the genersis of that. what was the point? >> i was told that david pecker wanted to have lunch because he was happy about the way i answered my interview. and one of the articles magazines. i don't remember which one, sorry. he wanted to thank me and wanted to thank me for my loyalty. >> loyalty. >> he said loyalty is everything to him. >> loyalty to ami?

loyalty to -- >> i thought to ami. i don't know exactly. i think it's probably maybe a combination of both. i don't know. >> do you know what happens next with ami and now you're speaking? >> there could be a big lawsuit. against me. it could be financial ruin. but that's why i have good attorneys to make sure it doesn't happen. am i scared do i feel threatened? absolutely. i feel i had to protect myself and stand up for myself. i almost feel violated in the fact that i didn't know what was going on behind the scenes. so i'm quite mad at that. i'm angry. i feel taken advantage of in a sense. i want the right to be made. i want it to be right. >> you filed the lawsuit. you are speaking to us. what's the point of the lawsuit? >> why did i file lawsuit? >> yeah. >> i want my rights back. >> you want the rights the life rights to your story. >> i want my life rights back.

it's been -- yeah. i want my life rights back. i feel like the contract is illegal. i wasn't presented correctly. i was lied to. and everybody involved in this deal. i want the rights back and i want to share my truth. everyone else is talking about my truth. which i need to share my story. everyone else is talking about it. i have never talked. since the day it happened i have refused to speak publicly and privately. my friend know and family know. no one else knows. now that it's out i need to control it. >> do you feel better having spoken? >> i do in a sense. i do because i'm actually standing up for myself now. and i really didn't do that before. now people know my truth. i'm not a liar. i have perceived as a liar or this and that. all the bad names. i did what i did. i'm not proud. i feel terrible. but i'm a new woman. new creation. and i'm standing up for myself.

>> when we come back karen mcdougal's answer to this question. >> if melania trump it watching. what do you want her to know? ♪ at&t gives you more for your thing. your snapping pics all day, all night thing. your getting the low-light, just right thing. ♪

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story. the catch and kill. mcdougal is seeking to be released from the agreement which raises questions about what more she may hope to gain from speaking out. some people hearing that will say look, this is you're in it for the money. they'll say obviously we're not paying you for this interview. but you may go from here and write a book or make a movie or whatever it maybe. to that you say what. >> bottom line this. i offered to give back the 150. i got 55% of that. just to have my story rights back. the story is out there now. i'm not telling the nitty-gritty details. as you can see. i'm selective of what i'm saying about the relationship. i'm not out to make money. i'm out to get my rights back. to prove a contract fts illegal. i was taken advantage of.

and go back to my life. period. >> did it anger you -- part of this because people the white house have said you're lying you're not telling the truth? >> no one likes to be called a liar. it's more about the illegal portion of the contract. and them not fulfilling what they promised me. they promised this work. to date, there are only ten articles in okay magazine. ten articles in star magazine and maybe seven on radar online. i'm supposed to get four per month. the two years is up in august. i got nothing out of this. >> you think the talk of helping you relaunch a new whole new faze of your life skbl it was fake. they didn't want to help me. i thought they wanted to keep my reputation clean and rebrand me. they wanted to i'm an older model now. they want to make something a new start. they promised me all these wonderful beautiful things. even when i met with david

pecker and dillen and keith. in new york. after this is back last august. they offered me many more opportunities. but i haven't seen anything. that's not part of the contract. my point is they keep dangling the carrot. i'm in the playing that game anymore. >> are you aware or have you spoken to any women with similar stories that have come forward? >> no. i haven't spoken to anyone. i have heard other stories from other people. it's hearsay. it's not like the girl directly to me. no. i can't comment on that. >> would you have come forward publicly if stormy daniels hadn't come forward? did that make an impact on you gl i think it made a little bit of an impact on me. it gives you more it takes the fear away. however, i probably would have just because as im learning about this contract and the people involved and the way i

was treated and all the behind the scenes i was unaware of. and all the work i'm not getting. which i contracted for. yeah i probably would have come forward. if you didn't get what you were told in a contract work wise, wouldn't you say something? of course. >> do you have regrets about the relationship? with him. >> back then? >> yeah. >> the only regret i have about the relationship that i had with donald was the fact he was married. if he wasn't married i wouldn't have regrets. he treated me very kind. he was respectful chl it was a good relationship while it happened. had i known at the time there were supposedly all the other women. i wouldn't have been in the relationship. i didn't know that at the time. no, no regrets except the fact he was married. >> if melania trump is watching this, what would you want her to know? >> that's a tough one.

>> or say to her. >> yeah. what can you say. except i'm sorry. i'm sorry. i wouldn't want it done to me. i'm sorry. >> karen mcdougal. reaction from our panel. david gergen, just in terms of the lawsuit she has filed. is it clear to you what legitimacy it has? >> i don't understand it. i'm perplexed by it. i don't understand why she's doing an interview with apologies to you. with i think that the it could have been handled differently. it's just inexplicable to me. the idea suing keith davidson as well for not telling her she was talking to michael cohen.

my guess is, i haven't talked to keith, my guess is keith thought he was doing something good. he was talking to michael cohen to leverage a deal. with ami. because of michael cohen had not blessed it i'm sure ami was never going to pay her the money in the first place. so. >> she wants the life rights back from ami. that that's essentially what they own in that contract. is that something she can actually sue to get back? >> yes. she can sue to get that back. when you say you want your life rights back and you're not in this for the money, that's another thing this is perplexing. i don't understand what the end game is. it's probably above my pay grade. but it doesn't make a lot of sense. unless she's just out there and wants to increase her fame kwoegs. or figures this is a good way to get her out there and reinvigorate the career because they promised her that. that might be the case. in terms of a legal case, most judges that i know are going to

rule that she violated this. she got what she was supposed to get. 150 grand. there maybe something where they would have had a better case if she hadn't violated. if she said i was supposed to get these appearances and write columns. some judge will say you have a way to enforce this. you didn't do it. going out and violating the agreement is not the solution. >> how do you see this? >> this was an astonishing interview. i feel like i'm trying to grasp, i want to take a shower. only because -- have we ever seen something like this when we're talking about the president of the united states? she was totally credible. i'm confused about what her legal strategy is. but i know what she described in her suit being double dealt i can understand why she wants --

why she's mad about that. she feels like she was it was under handed. >> you believe the affair itself was existed when -- >> she was, she had very specific. she knew his number and the name of his assistant and specific dates. i don't think there's a question about that. to me, the fact that ami did this catch and kill thing is a real question about whether this is an contribution to the campaign. and that issue is obviously before the fec which is a problem. that's not going anywhere. and the only other recourse on the campaign finance thing whether -- is this a violation, is it illegal? did the team act illegally. or ami give a contribution lix like that. that has to be resolved through the department of justice. who's the u.s. attorney? it's appointed by jeff sessions.

an interim. >> that's one of the things that interest me. affair is one thing. people have affairs and it is what it is. i hadn't realized about the catch and kill thing. which ami says they don't do. >> come on. >> they interviewed employees who said that's something they do. >> yeah. i agree with governor. this is first of all i couldn't take my eyes off it. it was such a compelling interview. and she because she was so -- this is going to sound maybe weird. she was very relatable. she was relatable. just as a human. not in terms of what she did. a human being. because she gave some honest answers about feeling guilty. and came across as somebody who was sympathetic in that way. certainly there are people who will say there's no sympathy here. you were a misstress. and you were messing around with a married man.

just in terms of the legality. we'll see what she does. from my perch looking at this in terms of politics. i'm not sure how much this moves the ball in to the president's de detriment. this is more meat on the bone that we knew he had affairs. and never hid that. >> except she was so credible. he has denied it. so what do people in the religious community say about it? is there something -- there will be another interview on sunday. a boom, boom. >> i will tell you, can i tell you because this some of the things came out. before hefrs elected. and the answer. >> he denied them. >> yes. but even hearing what he said on the access hol wod tape. the answer in the evangelical community. which supported him in a big way. we're keeping our eye on the

ball. his courts and policies and so far he's delivered. >> and we're not electing pastor. >> this was a long time ago. it falls into the same category with him. we had a president that this happened to. it was bill clinton. he had an affair and sads it didn't happen. with jennifer flowers. had lied about it. this isn't something we haven't seen before. i'll be consistent. when it was with clinton it didn't have any baring on anything. it was between him and hilary. this is between melania and donald trump. i don't understand what miss mcdougal is trying to accomplish. she said she was happy they didn't run the story. so she said she didn't want the story to come out. and says she doesn't want to hurt melania or the family. yet she has this hour long conversation. talking about this. so i'm just in a total loz to understand what's the end game

here. what she trying to do? >> in terms of the lawsuit. this is a bogus lawsuit. there's an offer, acceptance and consideration. she didn't like the deal. there's no way there's an fec violation. this is more than the stormy daniels issue. there was a payment by a company. a payment that goes that people admit happened time and time again. it's consistent with what happens in the industry. to say it's a pay off to influence the out come of an election. >> it's legal to have a contract between in the case this magazine and her. that may benefit donald trump. but he's not necessarily named in it. that's legal. >> correct. right. there's no indication this is a violation. whatsoever. >> except the timing is suspect. do you not agree? you have to agree a couple of months before the general election they don't want her talking. and they pay off to have this story killed. that is a benefit to him.

>> how often does ami make these payments? >> how often has ami's executives been a friend with donald trump. and how often have they done it on maf behalf of a president? probably never. >> it goes back to john edward. it was settled. it's settled now. >> if it had come out in a campaign. it wouldn't have made a lick of difference. he would have won the election. i saw she had affection for trump. was in love and thought they were going to get married. still has an affection. i voted for him. i never saw that side of him. i see someone who has warm feelings. on the politics of thisment the polling in december and where it is today, both trump and the republican party are in better shape. in december he was in the high 30s. today among a registered and likely voters he's in the 40s.

44 today. the a six point spread. right now. and in a couple of polls that have dom out it's less than that. there have been people asking is this hurting donald trump? not according to to the polling. these interviews may change the public relations dynamic. this is not hurt the president one shred. >> david? >> well, i don't know where to start. i thought the interview was well done. i found it painful to watch. it just seemed to go back to jennifer's point. having president of the united states have his life intimacy of his life. other presidents had affairs. kennedy. could go three days without having a relationship with somebody. he told that to the british prime minister. so to have that out there is just like his demeaning for the republic. it lowers our sense of what politics. we're down in the muck. having said that i thought she

was very credible. on the relationship. the details. and very importantly the fact her lawyer called the president's lawyer. he wouldn't have made that call did he not believe it was absolutely true this is what happened. he believed there was credible. i think she's much less credible on why she's going on tv. >> she said that's what she read. we have confirmed that call between keith davidson -- >> that's a good point. i think on the question of why she did this interview, given the fact as you were saying. she said she signed the agreement. with ami. because she wanted to kill the story. it wasn't catch and kill in the way we have been led to believe. she wanted it killed and said that's part of the deal. why she's turned around like this. there are many explanations. i think -- there's a certain repugnance. i don't know how it will play

out. it ain't going to help. we're playing right into a year when women voters are going to be extraordinarily important to the determine the 2018 election. and i think you have a series of these stories coming out and a loft women will stay yuck. >> we have to take a break. one quick note. we mention the interview ami released a statement about the contract and her allegations about efforts to keep her from speaking. i'm quoting. karen mcdougal has been free to response to press about her relationship with president trump since 2016. thus the suggestion ami silenced her is without merit. she signed a contract that gave ami the editorial discretion to publish her story. she promised to write columns. ami has a valid contract with mcdougal and with we look forward to reaching an am

amicable resolution story to her. we did get a statement from mr. davidson yesterday. saying attorney compliant privilege he cannot discuss it in detail. finally, as we have noted. the white house denies any allegation that any affair occurred. back more with the panel and other break news. mcmast r out. bolten in. john bolten says his past comments are behind him. we'll hear the comments and talk to the panel about what this means. ♪ hey, sir lose-a-lot!

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another change tonight in what seems like a never ending shake up in the white house. had hr mcmaster is out. bolten is in. he told fox news his past comments are behind him. just a few of those past comments. >> there is no united nations. secretary in new york has 38 stories. if you lost ten stories today, it wornt make a bit of difference. >> our biggest national security crisis is barack obama. we have to know the facts here. it's in the clear to me viewing

it this from the outside that this hacking into the dnc and the computers was not a false flag operation. >> the only option left is to end the regime in north korea. but effectively having south take it over. >> again he says the comments are behind him. what matters is the president says and the advice. how big a change is this for the white house? >> it is a big change. john bolten is somebody who i am told had very good meetings with the president. they after those meetings kind of clicked personally. which as we know from the way the president has been operating lately has become more and more important. >> all the reporting he didn't do that with hr mcmaster? >> he didn't at all. he didn't like his style. particularly the briefing style. and with john bolten it was different. having said that, they couldn't have more different world views.

when it comes to the big things. which is let's say iraq. >> bolten was a supporter. >> still is. to this day doesn't say it was a mistake. basically they would have done it again. and the president campaigned aggressively on the idea that he thought it was a terrible idea. and he's much more of a hawk. he's an internationalist. having said that, he is now working for the somebody who doesn't share the views. and there's no question, it's hard to believe they didn't have the conversations at their differences and how it would work if -- >> you work for the, as did bolten. >> i'm a bolten fan. i come from the hawkish wing of the republican party. the president deserves to have a stf ghets along with and trusts and can have actual exchanges with in the oval office.

office. it's his job to help the president make the best decision. he was very clear about understanding his role as a staffer and not someone out there actually setting the policy. so if the president is more comfortable with this, i think that's good. it is interesting, though. the president's posture on north korea right now is far different than what ambassador bolton's posture has been as recently as february when he was advocating the possibility we might good ahead and attack. he might have adjust his view on north korea as we head towards these meetings in may. >> that's absolutely right. the president deserves to have the people around him, and he has the right to have the people around him that he wants. but to suggest this is not going to make a difference when they come down and have a council and a meeting of the nsc with the president, i think these two appointments at state and the nsc have both moved the center of gravity toward a much harder line position on north korea and

iran. it looked like the president was tilting toward getting out of the iranian agreement. i think the chances have gone up a lot he is going to get out of the agreement. they're going to go in with lower expectations on the north korean talk. john bolton is a very smart man. and he's had a lot of interesting statements. but he is not going to be able to put his beliefs behind. he is not going to go and be a neutral arbiter. he has views he will advance. he's done that all his life. he is going to be trying to advance his policies. i think it's really significant now that the president on a series of personalities, everything has moved toward a harder line, a more combative line. whether it's trade or north korea or iran. you can go down, you can go down the whole series. even his personal lawyers. >> there have been controversial people in this position. i mean henry kissinger has very strong viewers, absolutely. he had a huge impact on policy.

it's the rare national security adviser, brent scowcroft was one of them who saw himself as you collect all the views and present them fairly to the president. you don't push your own agenda. john bolton doesn't come from that. that's just not who he is. >> but he also hasn't been a serious foreign policy player for a long time. i mean the last job that he had was from the bush administration, and he was under secretary of state. he's really -- this is the president sort of, again, looking to this conservative infotainment people that he thinks are policy people. and i just think that there's just that problem. and then also he does say very extreme things. he wrote the forward to pamela geller's book. she is a top of the line islam phobe. he takes really extreme positions on things. this is not somebody who is on the margins. he is a hard-liner. and so i think it says something that this is the kind of person

that the president wants to have around him in this position. >> and to me, i mean, everything that he has written, this aggressive interventionist is totally opposite of what the president campaigned on. and so i give it ten months. >> carry all the hardline. i agree he is a hardliner. he is hawkish. but i also heard all night tonight on the news channels, folks talking about how the president keeps appointing yes men and people who are going to yes him. i submit pompeo is not a yes man. pompeo has his own strong thoughts. and everyone here around this table -- >> but the world view seems to be in line. >> philosophically they can be in line and they can get along. but that does not mean they're going to disagree in a civil way in the oval office. i think see putting good people in place that he trusts. >> it is interesting the television aspect which you raised on this. one goes back to where he talks about the generals that he learned from watching on

television, and which was sort of an offhanded remark and some made fun of at the time. i'm wondering how much of that is actually playing into this. is his familiarity with john bolton from watching him on television? >> i think it's hugely impacting. you don't see any other staffers ending up there because they're on tv. whether it's mercedes schlapp or larry kudlow now getting a position there. >> joe digenova. >> sam stein made a joke the chiron operator at fox and friends has more power than anybody in the white house in foreign policy. he looks to fox and friends every morning to sort of get his ideas. i think the idea that him seeing john bolton, who is on fox all the time, has definitely played a huge role into this. >> just because you're good at messaging and a good messenger doesn't make you a bad at policy. i think the president's right. he is going into a 22018 year. we what midterm elections coming up.

he is looking to folks who can carry that message. >> that's what maggie haberman was saying the last hour too. he feels there is not enough people saying what he wants on television, pushing his agenda. >> regardless of his advice what he is getting from these people, if we can't commute it publicly, we're never going get better. >> i agree. >> he clearly didn't like the way mcmaster was communicating in the oval office. he wasn't a tv presence. he likes the way kudlow talks. he likes the way bolton talks and can make an argument and engage in debate. i agree with you. they can be good on policy and be good arbiters of policy. if the white house never finds a way to communicate all the good things they're doing, it will be harder for them to get to 50% which is where we want them to go. >> he is pushing out people who are more moderate or at least seem to be willing to work with mueller and bringing in hard liners, not to change the subject on it. it's the similar you're going to have a bunch of bulldogs in there, a whole bunch of them. while he wants people who are going to be aggressive and muscular, they also have ideas

that may not be consistent with one another. so it's going to be interesting to see the internal dynamic. >> thanks, everybody. we'll be right back. more news ahead. (daniel jacob) for every hour that you're idling in your car, you're sending about half a gallon of gasoline up in the air. that amounts to about 10 pounds of carbon dioxide every week. (malo hutson) growth is good, but when it starts impacting our quality of air and quality of life, that's a problem. so forward-thinking cities like sacramento are investing in streets that are smarter and greener. the solution was right under our feet. asphalt. or to be more precise, intelligent asphalt. by embedding sensors into the pavement,

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that's more speed than at&t's comparable bundle, for less. call today. thanks for watching "360." time to hand it over to don lemon. "cnn tonight" starts right now. this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. here is our breaking news. h.r. mcmaster out. john bolton in. president trump replacing his national security adviser with the former u.n. ambassador and fox news analyst. a source telling cnn the move comes after weeks of discussion. so when sarah sanders denied mcmaster was on the ropes last week, the president was actually in discussion with the general's replacement. and when the president himself called the story very false, that was a lie. >> so there will always be ch