predicted to have in a lifetime. deaths outnumbered births for the first time last summer. they are trying to reverse the problem. thank you for being a part of my program this week, and i will see you next week. hey, a manufacture crisis at the border. i'm brian stelter and this is "reliable sources," the story behind the story. we have dean mccabe. lots to ask him. plus the growing uproar inside sinclair a reporter promos. i'll tell you about one journal it's who is blowing the whistle on the news giant. but first a story that

symbolizes everything that's wrong with the trump era. president trump receives faulty information, then he makes impulsive decisions and his staff has to scramble. ask yourself, why is there so much talk about the u.s.-mexico border all of a sudden? why are national guard troops suddenly being deployed? the answer involves president trump's favorite channel. let's try to slow down time for a minute. let's look at the timeline from last week to really understand what happened here. the line where fox news ends and trump begins is getting blurrier by the day. you have to see this timeline to believe it. i think it starts right here. about a week ago the president dining with sean hannity last week in mar-a-lago, the entire week talk about immigration including action on the border seemed to be a result of the dinner he had at mar-a-lago and all the other conversations the president is having with right wing media voices that are disappointed in him, disappointed in the omnibus

spending bill, disappointed in the wall construction. then there was an article for a propulsion of the caravan. now lawmakers are covering this caravan of migrants, some of whom are tryiheading to the uni states. someone took this buzz story and ran with it. >> an army marched to america, and the media is marching with them. >> do you see the time? this was around 6:30 in the morning eastern time. just 20 minutes later, the president tweeted, the border is getting more dangerous and the caravans, plural, are heading to the u.s. this feedback loop continued for days. it ping-ponged back to fox. fox went full steam ahead with

border coverage on "prime time" on monday. >> honestly, why isn't this a hostile act against our country? >> you know what, the president's instincts are correct. no more. build the wall, militarize the southern border, and then we can have a discussion on this. the military had its choice. >> until we can have a wall and proper security, we'll be guarding our wall for the military. >> we are preparing for the military to secure or border between mexico and the. it seems that the department of homeland security and other agencies are scrambling to catch up to what the president said on tuesday. i say this is a symbol of everything that's wrong with the trump era. a lack of quality information, first of all, reaching the

president. he's relied and set on his fox friend, sometimes on the tv, sometimes in person. his daekz lead to compulsive actions, leading to fears and catching his staff off guard. then they have to scramble that it looks like he knows what he's doing. that's how we ended um. he wants a wall built. as it is, we're talking about a national crisis at the border. jeff greenfield, am i wrong about this being what's so wrong about the trump era? >> i think i would add maybe a layer of complexity. remember that trump's belief about immigration, trump's

belief about foreigners taking advantage of us and ripping us off and killing our buffalo or whatever he's into, that is at the core of trump's world set of beliefs. he has believed this for 30 years. so it's not just that "fox & friends" are sending out false information about anything in particular, they're hitting the note that most is likely to get trump riled up. there are those at fox that wouldn't come near this. it's not that he's just listening to fox, he's listening to the very source of misinformation that comes unmediated. it's not like any of those fox. so he may be the right or wrong

person to respond to it viscerally. >> fox news' newsroom could have sent people to the border to find out what's really going on. instead they make it really scary and we see days and days of coverage. >> i think the rest of that headline, there was an episode stil of what are the people fleeing? what are they dealing with on a daily basis that's causing them to flee? without using that as a moment of empathy, trump is using this as a reason to strike back. >> 20 minutes later the president tweeted, not once but

twice, about that exact same subject. is this in any way to run a country? >> we've seen it again and again, though, since inauguration day, where the president sees something on fox news, he sees something on hannity or jeanine pirro, and he turns it into a policy proposal and it becomes the policy proposal. i don't think it's anything new, but it's a pretty clear pattern that has emerged over the last 15 months of this presidency. people are very confused. there has been a lot of confusion over what exactly the president meant by sending the military to the border. you had julia kam here on cnn saying maybe he was confused and he meant the national guard, which is what dss is talking b. >> and which is ultimately happening. i think your point is important, jeff, it's not all fox news,

it's about the commentators on fox news. those commentators love to blame obama like the democrats like to blame this president. now that we have new pictures of another chemical attack in syria, i guess i just wonder if president trump is going to take fox's advice. >> you would have to watch, particularly, "fox & friends," because as we've seen for the whole administration, it's almost like a pass-through. there are two questions about this. one of them is shock revelation. this is a different kind of president than anything we've ever seen. most presidents, whatever their idealogy, they might believe things, but they would not issue preside president.

whether it's people voting 50 times a day in california or the muslims are in jersey city. mr. president, here are the facts. >> but won't he get off the hook by them saying, if he believes that, he believes that. >> you would think the political process. the congressional base loves this guy and the congressional leaders use word like to the extent fox news is a journa journalastic enterprise, which it is most of the day, they don't tell "fox & friends" that it bears little resemblance to

the facts. >> but it's one of the most highly rated news shows, isn't it? the president surprises everyone with these tweets. it will come up on cable news and give most everyone shock. >> on thursday where he throws the papers up in the air. he's out there giving a speech about tax reform. instead he talks about voter fraud and immigration and other subjects. >> this is trump as a showman. he knows what's. if you're a trump support efr efrlt -- supporter, you're baffled. >> some have shrugged their shoulders and said that's trump being trump. is that a sensible response to

this kind of report of flatly false information? of course, it isn't. but that's why we've just gone through the passover season. this president is different from all other presidents. we know how to answer that question. >> it is notable to me that cnn and msnbc didn't air any of that speech live, and fox only aired about 10 minutes and cut away. it does make me wonder if there are more returns, if they're going to treat these tweets differently in the future. after the break, one of the most influential kids in the future. >> tell me a facebook message about what you want to know from him. it will be live after this. all while performing the grandest grand jeté? she could... but in real life she pays her sister, for that sweater she stained. (phone buzzes) chase. make more of what's yours.

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and on tv, roseanne is good, others are bad. how does this affect the bad outlets? joining me now is dan mckay, the executive editor of the "new york times". i wonder, dean, what is the cumulative effects of these attacks? >> i think president trump missed the part of high school civics where the first amendment was explained and where the role of free and independent press was explained, and i think this is debilitating. i think the press will keep doing what it does, but a president has two roles. one role, of course, is to pursue his agenda. the other role is to sort of build an understanding of the culture and to sort of creates a

culture where jesse waters in effect will have done bad and provided a civic outpouring from the country. the "washington post" story today, it was about disarray under the president. so far every one of those deeply reported inside stories about the white house from "the times" or "the post" have all been verified. when bannon talked about life inside the white house, when he left the white house, he verified them. reince priebus came out, he verified them. this stuff so far is all held up. >> the "new york times," cnn and

the journal all reports this stuff. usually you're their big rival, right? normally people expect you to battle the new york post. this is one of those areas where you want to talk about it. >> we will fight to the death on daily stories. it's healthy for us, it's healthy for the countries to have institutions fighting for the death. but we believe in the same principles. i will defend them on these principles and they will defend me on these principles. the white house said the president won't go to the dinner this year. he has pulled out of that the last few years. >> i don't like politicians appearing chummy. >> do you think it means anything that he's not going again this year? >> not to me. i think, to be frank, the correspondents' white house dinner ought to rethink their

mission. they should not need for the president to come. if they want a way to raise scholarships for people, i get that, but the whole spectacle of the president of the united states, whether it's barack obama or george bush, is not a good image for us. our image should be we have a tense relationship with the governmen government. the president criticizing the times on a financial level, if we can put a few on the screen. you're at the point where you have 200 million disney only subscriptions. how much is that is the trump effect? >> some of it is, because i think some readers said, oh, my god, the president of the united states is undermining the american press, we need to

support them. some of that is coverage of half vee weinstein, so it's not just trump, but i think people understand right now that there is a need for an aggressive, independent press to cover a government that right now is in more turmoil than it's been in a generation. >> is it a surprise to you that we haven't seen more of a calming influence in the white house? it's been more than a year and the president is still promoting conspiracy theories about voter fraud, for example. i think the conventionals. sometimes the -- made the mistake of saying, here's a guy that it is going to calm things down. we have a history when things

went like that. kelly hasn't had the ability to calm this one down and this will be the next four years in american politics. >> really interesting stories developing this weekend. your reporter said ambor is right about it. an editorial basically saying, "please save our paper." the staff is fed up by years and years of cuts, more layoffs happening now. what can news outlets like "the times" do to help outlets? >> we're big, we can stand it, we can even thrive and it can even inspire us. the biggest crisis is the decline of local newspapers. we just did a long project with new orleans times where i worked. it was about coastal erosion.

we learned from them, they learned from us. i would like to do a lot more of those, but i think calling attention to the problem is having fewer than 100 journalists. the newspaper i started in new orleans had more than that. that is unbelievable. that means school boards are not being covered. this is a crisis in northern jr.i jr.ism. there's world this weekend of a palestinian journalist being shot and killed, six more. po what does it mean to you to see an ongoing death and injury toll among journalists all around the

world? the conservatives find it's a much more dangerous world for journalists than a decade ago. >> it's two things. first, it's scary. i have journalists working for the "new york times" in this country and elsewhere. i hope people see it as a reminder what we do. i hope people see tm, that criticizes the perils of the journalists around the world and understands that what we do is very important and vital and helps the world understand the world. >> it's been great to see you. thank you for being here. please come back soon. >> thank you. the sinclair broadcasting that created a firestorm. now a sinclair staffperson who

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here, to come on this program and address these questions. they have declined. but i do have a new statement from the company. beal g we'll get into that. first a little background about sinclair. it's the largest operator of local tv stations. it owns or operates 200 of them across the country. and now it's trying to widen its influence by buying tv stations. they've been taking a bash from the commercials aired last week. it became widely covered by cnn, msnbc, all the major networks. we heard from some of the anchors of these stations who say they were embarrassed they had to participate, and even a few said they refused. here's an example from norma holla holland. she had some regrets, it looks like. she said, i could have chosen to quit, but who among us has an

alternate career in their back pocket ready to go? i have a family to support. that's not an excuse -- that's reality. people can't leave right now. and there's also contractual reasons. my next guest left sinclair and then they sued him. he's a former reporter at the cbs affiliate in west palm beach, florida owned by sinclair. john, you're now the president of "inside advantage psr." what happened to you when you left sinclair? >> basically when i walked into hr, they told me, if you do this, we're going to rain down hell on you unless you pay us $25,000 to get out of your contract. i was making $44,000 a year, brian, so of course, as a 24-year-old i couldn't cut them a check for 25k. i told management, look, i'm mentally fatigued, i'm physically fatigued. i don't like this culture of chaos and i want out. and they told me basically, no,

you're going to stay unless you pay us the 25k. i talked to my attorney, i left, and before the statute of limitations was up, three years later, last october, they filed a lawsuit in orange county court for $2700. which is but for somebody like me, $5700 is something. >> i manuaimagine. what's the current status? >> in mediation just a few hours before the hearing in orange county court, their sleezeball attorney phoned me to say, "$2700, cut a check, you get out of it. at that point i was ready to give in and sign on the dotted line, but he said we have to make a gag statement that you can't talk about your former company if we want this to go away. that's when i told him to jump

in a lake and ever since then they've been unresponsive. >> sinclair's response was, hey, this type of contractual language is standard in our industry. i think a lot of people have been surprised to hear how onerous it is, and there is actually an editorial in the providence journal from a former anchor saying, these deals need to be fixed to free reporters and anchors from these contracts. i also want to know from you, jonath jonathan, what you experience in terms of bias at the station. how prevalent is this conservative bias that creeps in the coverage? >> it comes from the top down, brian. it comes straight from corporate where, msnbc, everyone knows they lean left. fox news, they lean right. at sinclair, they focus on small to midsize markets throughout the u.s. from macon, georgia to bows man, montana. they focus on the person who works 12, 14 hours a day, comes

home and maybe watches 15 minutes of fox news. this can be as simple as must-runs at the end of the show or it could be copy fed from sinclair headquarters to one lone producer inside the studio. it also affects journalists because they tell you what stories you can and can't do and what angles you must take. >> this has been going on for years. let's be clear, you left sinclair years ago. what i'm getting from these stations is it feels like it's getting more oppressive. this is something that seems to be increasing and now president trump is in office. olivia is with me. you had an experience with david smith, long-time ceo. tell us what he put in an e-mail message. he said to you the print media is so left wing as to be meaningless drivel which accounts for why the industry is

and will fade away. no credibility. what did this tell you about his bent? >> i think he meant meaningless drivel. it's not shocking for us to hear from a far right politician someone running for office these sentiments. but media executives in america, which he is. he was under the radar until recently, it's shocking to hear such a blanket statement condemning the media. i've been talking to people at sinclair in the fall, and at the time the big issue were those must-run segments that they would air overnight. people were embarrassed by them. when he said that to me, i didn't know what to make of it. i think it's pretty extraordinary the way that they were able to turn this into a mainstream story, this kind of

difficult to understand thing about contracts -- >> in local markets and stuff. >> exactly, and how important local news is. my aunt diane watches someone named brian stelter every day and it's very important to her. >> may i remind you that by my work here in new york, american journalism has such a connection with people. when they stop my mother on the street, it's because they spend every morning with her. >> that's right, the weather report, you talk about the people that is pretty extraordinary, and how the president chimed in the way he did, it's alarming. it's very alarming. >> john, real quick, what do you want to see sinclair doing? if you could give advice to the company. >> i would tell them to pull their head out of their ass.

it was a culture of mysogeny and xeniophobia, and i don't want to see my colleagues who still work at sinclair to have to continue to sustain that. furthermore, i want the young journalists out there to look at who you're applying to. i would tell sinclair to get their act together. >> jonathan, thanks for being here. olivia, thanks for sticking around. let me reiterate, sinclair forks. up ahead, next interview you won't see anywhere else. don't go away. with the power of 335 turbo-charged horses lincoln mkx, more horsepower than the lexus rx350

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welcome back to "reliable sources." laura ingraham will be back at fox news this week. fox news has strong the supported ingraham. they said they didn't want to kowtow to this type of boycott, but it remains very much in the news. let's talk to a former fox news contributor. eric, how do you view these b

boycotts, whether they're for the right or the left? >> i'm generally against boycotts in general. to hurt surprise and suppress a voice you don't like, i think, is in bad form in general, whether it's from the left or the right. >> the reaction i received from last week's program when i said something similar was the only th thing viewers and readers can do it protest advertisers. that's the only thing they can do to seek out the offensive or damaging commentary. how do you rationalize that? >> i think people can change the channel. tv networks measure things in ratings when the ratings go down. people change the channel. i think you're forcing advertisers to take a side, and we're seeing is more and more not just on extreme opinion, we're seeing it more and more because you don't like someone's politics and that goes both ways now. people are boycotting advertisers over less and less major things.

>> i mentioned you're a former fox news contributor. there was a controversy about why you left fox. you mentioned you weren't being booked much anymore because you weren't promoting trump. is that what happened? >> to some extent. it was getting more uncomfortable to be there. i have tremendous respect for fox, they're good people, but if you were not a trump conservative, just a conservative, it was harder and harder to get air time. honestly, i've been on tv more in the last two months than i was on fox. >> what does that tell us about fox, though? they were putting conservative writers who weren't always pro-trump out to pasture. >> listen, i think this is a trend. it's not just me. there have been others as well. it got to a point on certain shows where i learned if a family conflict came up and i wanted off the show, i could tweet something about trump and

the reality was i would get canceled, anyway. i think they understand the president has their eyes and ears and they're using their influence on him. >> i feel like if that's the case, those producers and anchors have the responsibility to give accurate information and be balanced and have voices like yours on the air. >> this is president trump. he's being fickle and you don't want to risk him going anywhere else. >> that's a sad statement. big story at the end of the week here. williamson is no stranger to controversy but "the atlantic" went ahead and hired him and then fired him. they hired him which caused a two-week uproar. williamson likened a black child to a primate. he also tweeted in the past that those receiving abortions should be hanged. this became an outcry on twitter and facebook. goldman initially defended

williamson. he said that taking a person's tweets and assertions in isolation is the best journalistic practice. they went on to say that you should give people second chances. that changed when a 2014 podcast by williamson resurfaced. let's listen to what he said on the podcast. >> someone challenges me on abortion and said, if you really thought it was a crime, you would support things like life in prison, no parole, opportunities of a homicide. in fact, i do support that as i wrote what i had in mind is hanging. >> he also had a speech that was easily accessible on google from hillsborough college in 2015 where he said he really doesn't favor capital punishment, but he

treats abortion the same. he did this in 2014 and 2015. i think to hire him in 2018 for a week and then say, oh, well, we can't now, i think is in bad form. they could have given him space in the pages of "the atlantic," saying this is what i believe. >> this isn't a mainstream view among conservatives, that people who have abortions should be hung. >> williamson wasn't hired for this one view. he was being hired for a provocative, interesting conservative who has a million views and words already written. i think to hire him and then fire him for one issue on a magazine that exposes readers to both sides is bad form. it's not a first amendment issue, don't get me wrong there, they can hire and fire whoever they want. but i think it's a dangerous precedent to hire him and then

fire him for things he said years ago. >> you think it was bad news to hire him? >> maybe, but when they are going to fire him for something he said five years ago, that's not really encouraging for where thought is headed. this reminds me of liberals on social media who block every conservative because they don't want to hear their views at all -- >> is that a thing? >> yeah, it is. even some that the "new york times" hires, fortunately they've stood by some of their employees. more "reliable sources" right after a quick break. she could... but in real life

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president trump versus amazon is a proxy for his war with "the washington post." i can't believe that's even a real sentence. this morning the po-- he's been covering this amazon versus trump thing going on. and then we have this new tweet where he blasts the post. do you think he's trying to get under jeff bezos' skin? >> you can make the very same correlation looking at some critical "washington post" stories that somehow get under the president's skin and then he immediately attacks the "washington post" and amazon pretending they're one and the

same, when they happen to share an owner, but nothing more. >> you've been writing about this issue for the post this week, let's take a look at what the president said on air force one talking about amazon. >> amazon is just not on an even playing field, you know they have a tremendous lobbying effort, in addition to owning "the washington post," which as far as i'm concerned just another lobbyist. >> "the washington post" has done some critical reporting on amazon, bashed some of his posts and reviews. but what's really going on here is that the president according to some people inside the white house has sort of a jealousy

issue with jeff bezos, where jeff bezos is at number one and trump is 77th. donald trump doesn't have -- doesn't use a computer has never sent an email, so the whole idea of e commerce, he just doesn't get. he's a bricks and mortar kind of guy. amazon has a deleterious effect on -- it's a legitimate position that it gets lost in the bluster of donald trump. >> one final note before we go. when you're a billionaire, you don't usually have to do things you don't want to do. but that's not the case for mark

zuckerberg this week. he's succumbed to lawmakers demanding answers dealing with the cambridge analytica. there's a lot of questions for zuckerberg, i'm sure you have some, i'm sure lawmakers have many. what the company is doing about election meddling and many other subjects so i'm sure lots of people will be tuning in for this coverage. for all the day's media news at "reliable sources".com. and i have just posted a new story about sin claire, and we'll have coverage of that

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