this is gps, the global public square. well to awful you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria live from new york. on today's show, trump strikes back. the president punishes syria or an alleged chemical attack on its own people. did the stroik send a strong enough message? what are the consequence sns i'll have a great panel to discuss. also former secretary of state

madeleine albright raises the alarm about facism saying it's on the rise around the world and worries about even america. >> he is a president that has undominatingic instincts that trouble me a lot. >> also are we watching the end of human rights? that is the worry of no less an authority than the u.n. human rights chief. he is now quitting his job and naming the worst offenders. an interview you will not want to miss. but he first my take. in april 2017 donald trump ordered a missile strike against the assad regime in syria for its use of chemical weapons. i supported the action then because i thought it was worth punishing a regime for using these dreadful weapons. i was heartened to see president trump who campaigned on the narrowest possible conception of america's interests was acknowledging broader global

values. final i i was gladdened to see he was willing to act forcefully against putin against many whom he conducted a flir flirtation. for all those reasons i support his demonstration of power this week especially since done in collaboration with britain and france. we're living at a time when global institutions and values built up over decades are eroding or under threat. to have some action taken to even symbolically enforce the norm against using chemical weapons is worthwhile. but it doesn't change the reality about which i spoke at the time that the administration still does not have a serious strategy. in fact, you see the incoheroins in the approach by the fact that days before deciding on the military intervention in syria trump announced american troops were withdrawing altogether.

this is selmer a heightened version of the dilemma that the trump administration sinced start of civil war. it cheers on democracy. it's dismayed by assad's brutality. recognizing the dangerous of lawless areas in which islam radicals like isis emerges. but has never found a viable moderate partner on the ground in syria that was large enough or effective enough to have even a chance of becoming dominant militarily and politically. so under president obama, the policy became a wish more than a strategy. announce that assad must leave by refrain from trying to make that happen with the massive and pro longed american commitments it would entail. fight isis but limit american involvement to that specific goal. and take actions to deter the use of chemical weapons. in obama's case this involved working with the russians to confiscate the stock piles. in trump's case it has been two limited strikes. but the overall approach is

remarkably similar. trump like obama is wary of american involvement and yet can't completely stay away. so he has come up with a few discreet ways to use american power without actually getting much involved in the syrian conflict. it is perhaps a sign of america's few options that on syria, despite his protestations and constant digs at his predecessor donald trump has morphed into barack obama. and let's get started. we will get reaction to the syrian strike from many quarters today. let's start by going live to northern syria with cnn nick peyton walsh joins us. nick, what do you make of the extremely limited nature of the strikes, almost surgical, as far as we know no casualties.

>> well it's clearly designed to send a message that chemical weapons were the key focus here. now, as you said there are reports that possibly three individuals were injured by a missile that was intercepted. we heard today from bashar al assad, the syrian president meeting russian lawmakers he claimed it was soviet era legacy air defense missile system that is took out the precision cruise missiles laser guided. obviously that's a bit of an ask to believe that. also, too, is the notion from the russian that is a similarly aged syrian defense system took ou two third of them. the pentagon providing before and after pictures commercially verifiable what they hit and what it looked like after. say that everything hit the target before the anti-aircraft got into play. all the same this was limited strike. but it carried one important message. all the brafd o of russia being a resurgent power in the region syria getting its way this still occurred with very little if not no russian pushback.

they were warned in advance they weren't the target. they may have been told something was coming. but they didn't choose to step up and intercept. maybe they were technically unable. maybe they didn't want to. that sends a message about the moscow and iron being in the driver seat. that the the u.s. can strike if he wants wants to. russia and iron may feel they have to arm for that idea at some point. >> given what you know of the you balance of forces had the united states done something more significant, could it have altered the balance of power against i assad? >> probably not, frank. if you launched of an adequately comprehensive strike against syrian forces you probably end up hitting russians as well. they didn't want that to happen. it's too much of hypothetical. there is no one to take the place. the world would be aghast if the syrian regime was gone

overnight. the vacuum would be an awful situation worse than what we have now. after the last ten days of diplomacy moscow and tehran are not happy. they were getting their way on the ground despite the unrelendent willing ghastly months of horror they inflicted on ghout ohha. the world just did not care. it sent aid and retired are rick in response. .. process the use of chemical weapons makes everyone sit up straight. you have to imagine surely this military response and the cohesive retire are rick from three separate powers who often kwant see on the same page with the trump white house now in play but possibly damascus are getting a bit of heat from the allies if it was just damascus's idea choosing to dplie the chemical weapon peterson it was putting a spotlight on something they were getting away with. >> nick peyton walsh terrific reporting thank you. let's bring in david mil band.

and marry slaughter was director of police plan in milgt's she is president and ceo of the thing tank new america. david, you said to me before the program began this is kubacki bombs. >> the horns of the dilemma you described in the opening take are clear high pressure. they go back to the beginning of the syrian war. when the end the west set removal of say sad were the not matched by means. and the whole debate is what are we talking about transition to. everyone can see assad is bad. but there is never sufficient clarity about what the transition would be to. my take is not doing the easy things, not giving support in sufficient quantities to the neighbors like jordan and lebanon. not taking in refugees to our countries which we can come to.

and the hard work of diplomacy involving applying pain to some of the supporters of the president assad to dry a political settlement is not being opened up in a coherent way either the fundamental we have today is that bombing is not a strategy whether or not you think it's justified. >> ann marie, is there something realistically one could do beyond bombing? >> yes and if we were really serious about bombing to stop the government from inflicting horrific atrocities on its people we would have been bombing airstrips when they use barrel bombs. but that -- that's not something we're going to do. and you have to see this as drawing a line against chemical weapons. i think there is a good reason for that. chemical weapon wassing biological weapons, nuclear weapons are uniquely horrific

weapons of mass destruction. but it's an event, not a strategy. i do not think the trump administration has a strategy other than. >> anymore the obama administration had one, i would say. would you agree. >> it's funny. >> having serve. >> in previous debates i would have said you said they had a strategy and i didn't think so. they were at least trying to arm a particular group. and they were pushing diplomacy. the trump administration doesn't even have a diplomatic strategy. macron in france says he we are bombing to stop chemical weapons and return to diplomacy and do the right things around refugees and humanitarian aid. trump says i want to wash my hand of it. and on the other hand this is a bad thing zpl david, talk about the frujee issue. because it's striking to me on this point, on the important issue, the world's leader is now germany, not the united states. >> germany has learned from its own history and has established

leadership both on the international aid front and the refugee welcome front. it's chilling that more syrians were killed in the chemical weapons attack last weekend than admitted to the united states in the whole of this fiscal year, 44 syrians have been allowed into the united states since the first of october 2017. the president is decimating the refugee ve settlement program it's been a beckon of american leadership over the last 30, 40 years. ronald regan welcomed more refuge ayes than they american president. we're down to a situation where the 45 refuge ayes isn't going to be delivered. he is delivering 21,000 cared to 90,000 last year. we're talking about the slow and silent strangulation of the american refugee resettlement program sending a terrible message not just to the refugees. but if you're the king of jordan with your country at breaking point.

and you know america has not just on sfrang las vegas ray rations when it comes to aid but also not welcoming refugees themds it's a politic willing and moral problem. >> the quiet success here- we have to take a break. the quiet success of germany is extraordinary. they took a million people without vetting basically. and remarkably there have been no -- there's been no great you know disaster, no -- they were predicting terrorist attacks. >> a lot of politicking pushback. >> given how many scare scenarios people had about the million people coming in rapidly. this is the dog that didn't bark as it were. when we come back we will talk about something interesting for me. why has there been so much hostility to this attack from the left, not only the united states but also in europe. we have two bona fide left wingers who will explain. she does for us which is kinda, a lot.

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and we are back with david mil band and ann marie slaughter. i wanted to ask about the reaction to these strikes. what's interesting there are a few people, the usual suspects, lindsey graham saying we should do more, there should be a bigger strategy, depose assad. mostly the response, the more spirited response has come from the left, it's been saying why are we cheering on american military intervention? why are we bombing another country? as i said both of you are really legitimate bona fide liberals. i've known you a long time there was an enormousment -- look at my twitter feed. there was invektive about both of you because you've been interventionist on humanitarian issues. what's going on, do you think?

>> so i think there are different strands coming together. one is very much the part of the american left for a long time that is opposed to the use of american military force, that thinks the use of american military force does more harm than good in the world. i recognize it's done a lot of harm. but -- my grandfather fought inned world war ii for belgian, britain. i think it can do good. but there is the visceral response that bombs won't do anything even to stop chemical weapons. alongside that i see veterans who have come back who say at least in my twitter feed, fine you go fight that war. you're stitting in your comfortable world sending others to do your fighting. and i think that plays into a kind of anti-elite, pro trump argument, or on the left more populist argument. then there is a kind of why are you so concerned about people a abroad and not people at home?

i would say actually it's the garment of mutuality. you can't in fact say we turn our backs on the people of syria and just take care of our own. the world doesn't work that way. >> you know, i noticed, david, that the leader of your party in england if one can describe it jeremy corbyn said what ann marie said. bombs won't bring peace or stability. of course, one can think of examples when bombs wraut some degree -- it took military force to defeat hitler, to deter the soviet union. but there is this deep suspicion it seems to me in the new labor party and the modern left of any use of western military power. >> well, i wouldn't get into the second world war question. i wouldn't want to tar people on the left with questioning the engagement in that war. but there are two things going on. let's not underestimate the dope

and shocking experience of iraq and afghanistan. all of us need to learn the lessons. the danger is that we become imprisoned by the iraq and afghanistan experience. the second thing is of course i'm the sfirs to say bombing on its own is not a strategy. the gaping hole has been the lack of a coherent strategy, the development of diplomacy or military effort without that political goal of a political settlement or the clarity about what a political settlement means isn't going to work. it's really important that military force is always a last resort. can't be a first resort. secondly it's allied to a political strategy. >> third do you think the left in britain -- do you think the labor party has moved left from the koofs days. >> they saw the impact in coast a voe. iraq and afghanistan have cast a

long shadow and given pause to all of us who think in some circumstances military power is used. and for those who believe it's always wrong, it's obviously given them an easy stick to take forward. i run a humanitarian organization. i'm careful in my mind to have a thousand irc staff in syria. i'm fearful about idlib and i'm fearful where the people could be attacked by the regime. and any group that sams an answer without the political settlement is doomed to fail. >> does this represent something new on the right? what's happening politically? is the left becoming isolationist? but the right doesn't seem to cheer this particularly. they support it kind of because it's trump. >> alex jones was weeping yesterday on tv. no, i think it's similar to the politics of trade, the far right and the far left actually agree

that we should be focusing only on the united states. that's more the right. that force doesn't work, more on the left. but they're equally opposed i think. >> and so they're sort of -- the thoughtful center one might say might think this is a good idea. but that's the part of the political spectrum that has lost a certain amount of credibility with the -- with the spirited parts on the right and left. >> that and i think the belief that one can have an international order and one can in fact make progress against the unspeakable atrocities that people are capable of inflicting on each other. the 20th century was a narrative of the slow advance of human rights. but a real human rights movement that does have successes and a continued belief that it is possible to make a better world, again, forces never a strategy on its own. i completely agree with david.

but that force and diplomacy and standing up for individual rights around the world can lead to a better world. i don't want to give up on that hope. >> you have 30 seconds to tell me. do you have any hope that the situation in syria is improving? >> no. the situation is getting worse in syria, 2.5 million people in now in idlib. hundreds of thousands in the southwestern dara. we have to move on the front protect the civilians in country. macron son agenda. make sure the turks don't throw all the loot in with russians and iranians. get started on that. and thirdly bring the u.n. system back into the political process. >> we hope people take notes on the very important points. we will be back with madeleine albright and facism. try align, the #1 doctor recommended probiotic. with a unique strain that re-aligns your system. re-align yourself, with align.

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benito mussolini in mill. . two days later adoll of hitler committed suicide. facism it appeared was dead. the writer went on to make the case that this much revield political philosophy is not dead and rearing its ugly head again. the argument was strikes as was the person who pen to do. i asked her to tell us what she is seeing. born in czechoslovakia. madeleine albright she was the first female secretary of state. the author of a new book titled simply facism, a warning. welcome back, madam secretary. >> thank you so much. good to be with you. >> a lot of people would listen to that and say i kind of get it but you're going too far. whatever trump may be, facism -- you're going too far with that analogy. >> i'm not calling him a facist. i'm saying that he is a president that has undemocratic

instincts that trouble me a lot in terms of somebody who derides the importance of the press, calls you all the enemy of the people, who thinks he is above the law, who is in fact exacerbating the differences that exist in our society, and is somebody that kind of plays the crowds in a way that i find dangerous in terms of propaganda and has created a situation where there is identification with one group of people while there is no recognition of the individual rights of the others. and so that's the kind of thing -- and i went -- the book is actually historical in terms of not just looking at mussolini and hitler, but what are the issues, where has facism poked its head up again and what's going on? it is a warning. the saying, see something, say something, i'm saying do something. and that's what the book is about.

>> you point out in the historical sections that one of the important things people forget is how incremental the rice of facism was. it didn't all of the sudden happen. there was a step here, a erosion of liberty here and there, weakening democracy z. >> that's right. and one of the incredible quotes is something mussolini said. you pluck the chicken one feather at a time and people don't notice. it's not some overt overthrow. what i also found interesting in doing the research, that mussolini and hitler, and what is going on now in parts of europe in hungary and poland and turkey, the philippines and venezuela, these were people either elected or got power constitutionally. it's the communists that actually had revolutions. but the part that got to me was the fwakt that it undermined the

democratic institutions and yet in fact in some ways they came in democratically. >> won you say when you look at those comparisons it's been heartening in the american case to see the pushback, the kworts have pushed back, the press continues to push back i would argue. independent agencies like the fbi, even the department of justice push back. >> very important. and one of the things i do talk about is the resiliency of democracy. i believe in it fully. it requires active participation of people. on my to do list is to make sure more people run for office, speak out, and then there is this push for the press to be able to operate and a recognition that our leaders can't be above the law. i do think that's what's important. and i do believe in the resiliency of democracy, thank goodness. >> for you, facism is very personal. you were actually in europe when

hitler invaded czechoslovakia. >> well i was born in 19 process 37. my father was a czech vac dplmt. when the nazis marched in 1939 he escaped with my mother and me to england. and we were fortunate to be able to spend the war in england. mostly in air-raid shelters. and you know, that's when the americans came it really changed everything. that's when i fell in love with americans in uniform. i also found out later that my 26 members of my family had died in the holocaust. and so i can see what the effects of facism really -- what happens. and another part that does happen, and it's happening in various places now -- you always have to find a scapegoat. it's somebody else's fault that whatever is happening. and so obviously hitler chose the jews. but what is happening now, orbon

who won an election in hungary is blaming the migrants. i have to say here in the united states there is the sense that we don't want immigrants. i think you and i have a lot in common. but one is we come from somewhere else. and i do think to see immigrants as a threat and undermining what is so great about our country is diversity. but if you are looking for a scapegoat it will be somebody coming from a different place. and that's worrisome. >> you say in the book at one point i think in the conclusion, you say there are some people who might read this and say it's alarmist. you're right. it is alarmist. >> well, it is a warning. and i figure the following thing. i am in my 80s. and i do have -- have seen an awful lot. and frngly -- you've known me a long time. it took me a long time to find my voice. i didn't have a high-level job until i was 55 years old. i'm not going to shut up, frankly, because i have learned a lot.

i do think it's important for those that have seen these kinds of things to put out a warning and to then decide what we're going to do to make sure that america can have that leadership role and that we believe in the rights of others. and we can't be for torture and for deciding that we don't care what goes on in other countries, and that for america to be great that we have to shut our borders and treat those that come here with disdain or seem to think they're terrorists or rapists. i think it's outrageous. so i do think -- i'm very glad that i have been able to put this book together historically. i think that's the part to show that this is not new, and that we can't keep plucking the chicken one feather at a time, because it will be very evident that we're going in the wrong direction. >> madeleine albright, i for one at least hope you continue to speak out for many, many years. >> thank you for having me on the show, fareed.

>> pleasure. next on gps, the u.n. human rights chief is stepping down. because it seems so many of the most powerful nations care so little about human rights anymore. "it's like watching paint dry." that's how the world describes boredom. but some of you know

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and i can't wait for ten years from now when i get to talk to them again and see, like, who they are. ♪ a warning to our viewers, you are about to see some graphic images. this week, the world finally paid attention again to human rights in syria. but only after ghastly images spread swiftly around the globe.

videos of sick children, some seemingly dying, others desperately gasping for air. global opinion is one thing, great power politics another. less than a year ago the u.n. security council was supposed to here on the human rights situation in syria. the u.n. ace high commissioner on human rights. zeid ra'ad al hussein. he asked him to explain the reason he is quitting his important job. >> fareed, i was invited to brief the security council on syria. and there was a procedural motion introduced by russia. i need to nine votes of the 15 members of the security council to provide the briefing. and i only secured eight votes. >> they wouldn't hear it. >> they wouldn't hear me speak about human rights violations in syria. i mean, it's almost an

absurdity. what else would you talk about in the security council if it were not for the severe violations? and it was clear to me that were to signal my intention to continue the procedure in the u.n. is that the permanent five of the security council, russia, china, u.s., france and the uk, would -- and this is tradition, would have to agree. and it was just inconceivable that they would agree unless i compromised. and the office i lead is outspoken. we do also conduct quiet diplomacy. and we do technical support. but we have made our mark as an outspoken office. in this current environment you could only be that. and if i were to continue it would have involved compromised and i was not willing to do that. >> you also point out that france has not -- has itself been use its veto and power to sometimes act against human

rights. >> well, i mean, the problems we have had most recently is with the horrific terrorist attacks and movements that spread across the world. it's impeled the governments to react but so heavy handed have the reactions been that it's quite -- it's quite obvious to us that in some cases as neitze once said when fighting the monster be careful not to become one. that governments are violating the rights of peoples in defense of them. and it's an absword sort of position to take. you see massive denials of, you know, the right to privacy, freedom of expression, peaceful assembly and association, all on the back of a narrative of fighting terrorism. in the end terrorists can create great harm. but it's only governments that will break this world, as we all

know all too well. >> i think there is a tendency to believe that with all the things that trends were moving in the right direction. yes bad things happening in china, bad things in russia, but the trend line was in the right direction. but i look at a place like china or turkey, which you have again been outspoken on -- it seems in turkey certainly things are going very much the wrong direction. >> yes, it's hard to defend a position when the arrests have been so large scale. and the mantra of accusing everyone of being affiliated to a terrorist movement or terrorist group being applied to clearly liberal, let's say, media outlets. and when at the time half the journalists imprisoned around the world were in turkey, it's hard to explain it other than a growing repressing, a growing

movement to repress and stifle freedom of expression, peaceful assembly and the like. we see the growing authoritiarianism. with it the world is increasingly unstable. because with it you have rejection and repudiation of the laws constructed to keep this globe somewhat stable and safe. >> up next, is america the country that set up the current international human rights system now abandoning its legacy? yes, says human rights chief zeid ra'ad al hussein. indeed the u.s. record on human rights is only getting worse he says.

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interview with the soon to be former u.n. human rights chief zeid ra'ad al hussein. he says less than a month ago

the u.n. security council refused to let him give the council a briefing on human rights problems in syria. it's just one example he says of how the world is turning its back on human rights. which has led him to leave his important position. >> let me ask you about another important country, perhaps the most important country. >> yes. >> you said that you feared that the united states for the first time since 1946, from the founding of the united nations and this whole system, that the united states was now backing away from the promotion of human rights internationally. >> yeah, again, looking at this vote in the security council. i think years ago it would have been unimaginable that we couldn't brief on syria. >> but you think that in the past the u.s. would have forcefully insisted that the u.n. human rights -- >> i think so. i think so. i served on the u.n. security

council a few years airing and think that would have been the case. but in overall terms, at the human rights council in geneva, there is no u.s. ambassador appointed, which is rather stark. and you sense the absence. and the feeling is that, yes, there are certain issues which either the president has spoken about, whether we go back to the executive orders at the beginning of his presidency or since then and of course this year the dreamers, the daca and how we are in a sort of state of limbo. and then the various comments that the president has made in respect to race, agenda, and

attacks on pilots. not only is it out of sync with what history has been, especially for the second world war for u.s. government, but also it provides the example for others to mimic what the u.s. has been saying and doing. >> you've also been tough on arab countries. have you gotten -- have you been chastised by the government of jordan? are you finding -- i think people have always assumed these human rights commissioners. you don't criticize your own. do arabs regard this as a betrayal? everything you said, of course, is true, but it's been tough on your own part of the world. >> well, the relationship i have with my own country -- emotionally, it's a country that i love a great deal and i have a great deal of devotion for. but professionally i do not distinguish it from any other country. and if we believe there are positive developments, we recite

them, and there have been a few with respect to the human rights of women. if there are negative developments, we will also speak about these negative developments. but i think any more objective examination of the record will bear out that we've tried to be, and my office tries to be as fair as we can possibly be. it's one of the small sacrifices that one has to make, unfortunately, when one has this sort of position that you will lose the support of those who want you to be partisan and you simply cannot in this position. >> does that mean given how much of an equal opportunity offender you have been, does this make it difficult for you for your next step? i can't imagine some of these countries are going to support your higher position in the international system of something like that. >> in the end, fareed, when you see human rights defenders,

usually journalists and lawyers around the world who are willing to forfeit everything -- everything -- a chance to be with their families, to be with their friends knowing that if they publish a piece, if they report on a corruption story or if they speak out about abuse of authority that that's going to land them in jail, maybe even be tortured, possibly never see their families again and yet they still do it. ask it and it's a courage of a sort that normal people are not used to seeing and we see a great deal of it. that inspires many of us to be more courageous. it's not easy to speak out constantly about these issues. but you do it because the victims need you to do it. and the other human rights defenders, the real heroes in this confrontation of ideas, because they're willing to risk their lives, they inspire us. and so in the end, it's a no-brainer. you end up -- you do it because it's the right thing.

>> pleasure to have you on, sir. >> thank you so much. thank you, fareed. next on "gps," where does america rank among the world's nations on political empowerment for women? near the top, the middle or the bottom? we'll tell you when we come back. at a comfort inn with a glow taround them, so people watching will be like, "wow, maybe i'll glow too if i book direct at choicehotels.com." who glows? just say, badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com. ♪

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women make up 90% of the house and 20% of the senate, and it brings up my next question. where does the united states rank in terms of political empowerment of women? 22nd, 57th, 96th or 112th. my book is called "post truth" from lee mcintire. the author gives us a look at how things should be. the answer is 96th. it is a global report on the

world gender gap. some of the higher ranking countries including rwanda, china and ukraine have higher numbers. of course, the united states is expected to rise as more women run for senator this year. thank you for watching. i'll see you next week. happening now in the newsroom, renewed outrage by the president over comey's tell-all book. >> the president tweeting questions in mr. comey's book aren't answered, like how come he joined the classified information? why did he lie to congress? >> not because president trump told the truth, not because president trump's ties a