>> mr. president, donald, madame first lady, dear melania, and dear friends. it is an honor for brigitte and myself to be here with our friends you were so kind to invite. >> we'll go back to jeff zeleny and kate bennett. jeff, this is -- why is this the first state dinner? is it traditional that it's taken so long to have one? >> it's not, anderson. actually, this is a little longer than most state dinners. they're so -- it's no question, though, that the reason that france was picked for this was indeed because the trumps were invited last year to paris, to the bastille day parade, and they were treated to quite a show in paris. i remember it well. that's why the president decided to have france be the first state dinner here. and, anderson, i am struck so much by watching the president there, talking about the warm relationship, the special

relationship. this does not sound like candidate donald trump who often made fun of the french when he was running for president. this certainly is a sign of how he has grown in office, at least in one respect here. now he has a new friend on the world stage, and he indeed is the president of france. also the new president of france. so i'm struck by that as he really has developed this bond here. but i assume that this is one of many state dinners to come, but it certainly has taken them slightly longer than other presidents in their first year, anderson. >> kate, as far as the event goes, the first lady really took a lead on the decision. >> on all of it. to add to jeff's point, i think the state dinner probably happened so late in the administration because the first lady wasn't living in the white house, really, until june. she wanted a hand in this. it takes months to plan. she has been working on it for months. she chose everything from the china, which is the clinton presidential china, to the menu, to the seat cushions, to the

music, to the dripless candles and all the gold accoutrement on the table. so, certainly, this is a melania trump event. she did not hire a planner. at the head table, it looks to be tim cook sitting next to brigitte macron. bernard auneax, who has a large french business that extends into fashion as well. those were the guests sitting at that table. obviously melania trump had a hand in those seating charts, interestingly enough. this is definitely a moment for the first lady. you can talk about the white hat all day today, but tonight is her first time as state dinner host. >> jeff, kate, thank you very much. now some stunning allegations tonight for the president's choice to run the v.a. and a name for him. the candy man. physician ronny jackson already under fire for having no

experience to run an organization the size of the department of veterans affairs. now he's facing multiple complaints about his temper and temperament and dispensing drugs without prescriptions. some of that news was broken tonight at the top of the last broadcast from the veterans' affairs committee which has suspended confirmation hearings for him. don tester is the ranking democrat. we spoke to him in the last hour. >> i understand he had a nickname. >> he was the candy man because he handed out prescription drugs like they were candy. >> the white house doctor is nicknamed, among some people at the white house, the candy man. >> that's correct. that's what we were told. >> that's not a nickname you want in a doctor. >> that's not a nickname you want in a doctor, and when you consider we have a problem with prescription drugs in this country, it's not the example we need set. >> he appeared drunk at a meeting. in which administration did that happen? >> it was the obama administration, and admiral

jackson was the primary health care provider for the president. if you're drunk and something happens with the president, it's very difficult to go in and treat the president how it needs to be done. this is totally unacceptable in this environment, and multiple people told us this was the case on several different trips. >> do you know under what circumstances he was drinking? was this a social occasion? >> i believe they were social. there were comments about him being in the hotel room and couldn't respond because he had been drinking so much. >> he couldn't actually respond to requests that were made of him. >> that's right. >> someone else had to fill in. >> that's correct. >> in a moment i'll ask another u.s. senator, richard blumenthal, about what his colleague said. i understand there are new allegations of jackson's behavior while allegedly drinking on the job. >> that's right, anderson. i spoke to four sources familiar with this incident, including

one with direct knowledge. they told me and our colleague manu raju that during a trip in 2014, ronny jackson, the white house physician, was intoxicated. he banged on the hotel room door of a female employee. that incident became so noisy, according to one source familiar with this allegation, that the secret service stopped him out of concern he would wake former president barack obama. now, two sources who previously worked in the white house's medical unit with ronny jackson described that same incident to me, one of those staffers telling me it was definitely inappropriate, happened in the middle of the night, and that it made the woman in question uncomfortable. this is one of the most specific allegations we've heard about these allegations about jackson. they have been making the rounds on capitol hill. jackson was set to appear on capitol hill for his confirmation hearing wednesday evening. that has been postponed. the white house and secret service have so far declined to comment on this story. >> it sounds like the secret service were involved.

>> we are told that at that time it was reported to the chain of command. sources tell us it was one of multiple episodes involving jackson, alcohol, and overseas trips. of course, what you just heard last hour from montana senator john tester. members of the committee have been working through all of these allegations. but they haven't been able to substantiate these claims because there's so little documentation to be able to corroborate it. we're not hearing from the white house just yet on this specific matter. >> where do things stand? how might this affect his nomination? >> anderson, we've heard lawmakers on both sides of the aisle say if these are true, they want to learn me. you saw the top republican on the veterans committee, and john tester, the top democrat, reaching out to the white house. they want more details about any allegations, any inspections into ronny jackson's behavior while serving as the white house physician. he served, again, let's keep in

mind, under three administrations. certainly a lot of concern on capitol hill for a nominee that's already facing questions before any of this came out about his management experience and his ability to run such a sprawling federal agency. >> thanks so much. joining us now is senator blumenthal of connecticut. first of all, your reaction to the reporting of the allegation of the doctor banging on the door? >> these very serious allegations adds to, really, the important questions that have been raised, serious and significant questions about his integrity and qualifications for this job. remember, anderson, there already were questions about his experience and expertise, his managerial ability for the second largest agency in our united states government. this nominee is rapidly becoming doomed by the administration's own stonewalling. its failing to come forward forthrightly with facts,

precluding members of the v.a. committee, for example, from seeing the background check done by the fbi and providing the inspector general reports from the navy of 2012. this kind of nominee, if he fails to clear up these questions, is a disservice to our veterans, and we want the best qualified. as you depicted the president saying it again and again and again at the top of the last hour, the best people, and especially for this job, the best person. >> does it concern you? obviously the v.a. is the second largest agency, 300,000 people, that there are, according to senator tester, as many as 20 people that they have spoken to so far who have made some sort of allegations, and a number of them seem to be about his management of what is a very small office, frankly, in the white house. if there is problems managing a small office, how does he go

about managing 300,000 people? >> the problems demonstrated with managing a small office creating a hostile or toxic work environment. if applied on a much larger scale could create much larger problems. and there are already problems in the v.a. that need to be addressed by the best possible health care to our veterans. we've been working hard on the v.a. committee to help reform the v.a. health care system, as well as employment and job training opportunities. but here is really the more fundamental point. there is an abject failure of vetting in this white house. i count more than 20 high-level nominees who have been forced to withdraw because of serious revelations about their past. scott pruitt already on the job, now having to come to terms for

similar ethical violations in his past. so the lack of proper vetting is deeply disturbing, and right now, we're going to continue investigating on the v.a. committee. the inspector general navy needs to investigate, and most importantly, the white house needs to do its job. >> the president made a particular point of hiring the best people. that was one of his big selling points. there's two ways to look at this. either they've hired the best people but they can't keep them, which says something about the management in the white house. or they're not hiring the best people, which says something about the decisions made by this white house and by the president about who to hire. >> they're far from hiring the best people. the president himself hired rex tillerson because he looked the part. the report is that he has nominated admiral jackson because he looked the part. but more than looking the part is required for these kinds of jobs.

vetting, checking, scrutinizing has to be done by the white house. >> what i don't understand, though, if one's report is accurate, and i have no reason to believe it's not, about this incident of him banging the doors. this was in the obama administration. senator tester said many of these incidents occurred during the obama years. he was able to keep his job then. shouldn't flags have been raised back then if, in fact, these incidents were as egregious as they now sound? >> perhaps those flags should have been raised back then. remember, his job has been as the president's physician, a highly significant one, but not a managerial one at the cabinet level and not one requiring senate confirmation. but here is the really important point that's raised by your excellent question. to come forward as these men and women in uniform or retired military have done takes tremendous courage and strength. because the threat of

retaliation is so great, they have volunteered this information. we have not solicited it from them. and that is a very important fact, the courage that it took to come forward in spite of the fear of retribution. >> senator tester is saying a number of them are very concerned about retribution, that if dr. jackson does not get this job with the va, he goes back to running that medical office and the many people that currently work there. >> exactly. and right now there is no clear path for this nomination to succeed. so he may be going back, and the questions and allegations, serious and significant that they've raised, may prompt it. >> you say there's no clear path for this nomination. do you believe he should get a hearing? >> he should receive a hearing as long as the white house does the work of investigating these claims and provides the documents and evidence that are necessary to resolve these questions. and then we will have the basis

to ask informed questions. he will be under oath, and he'll see those documents. there has to be investigative work by the white house. that's where the task and the blame lie right now. >> senator blumenthal, thank you for coming. appreciate it. we're going to take this up with the panel coming up next. later on, details about the state dinner at the white house and the larger visit by the french president. whoooo. when it comes to travel, i sweat the details.

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an abject failure of

vetting, that's how senator blumenthal described the hiring of certain people in the white house. here with the panel, senator sanders, let's talk about jackson. man, i did it again. that's the second time i think i've called you senator sanders. senator santorum. >> it just ends different. >> sorry. we consciously put you on the right this time. these allegations, if vetted and true about jackson, does this make his nomination impossible? >> in a brooklyn accent, please. >> look, this just doesn't sound right to me. this was a man who served president obama, and a lot of these allegations are from when he served president obama. he stayed in that position even though it sounds like he was not

doing his job or was doing things inappropriate in the job. he obviously must have been recommended to the next administration. you don't normally keep someone like that unless there is some good feeling about him in the white house. and then all of a sudden, all of this comes out that he's this scandalous individual. it just doesn't fit. and so i'm just trying to figure out, is it true, or is this just, you know, maybe a little bit of hysteria trying to continue to undermine this administration and make them look bad? >> it's possible -- i think you're right, it is strange, because this is somebody that president obama had spoken very positively about and promoted, but i think we're in a different culture now where people feel like they can come out and make complaints against people who are powerful, so it may be that they weren't complaining before, and now they are coming forward and saying, oh, he was drunk and he was banging on my door, as he did allegedly with a female

staffer. and that there was abuse in this happening. so it's possible people just didn't feel empowered to come forward before. >> especially if the secret service was involved. if the reporting is true and the secret service knew about this and it went up the chain of command so the fact that the secret service did nothing, if i'm the woman in this situation, i don't feel that me continuously bringing it back up to the powers that be in my office will make a difference. i do think it's strange that president obama and folks in the obama administration recommended that dr. jackson continue on. i think it's problematic that so many problematic men in washington continue to be able to do their jobs at the expense of so many women who just want to go to work. >> dr. jackson has earned a lot of goodwill from the obama administration as well as the trump administration. people really like him. >> and the george w. bush administration. >> exactly. and so, i think, unless and

until he was promoted to another job he was qualified for, i don't think this would have come out. so it's people looking at, can he handle the sprawling bureaucracy, is he qualified for that, who started to complain about his management style in this small place where he sometimes behaved like a tyrant, other times his drinking, and the list went on to include this misprescribing of medications. he would have continued on as the happy doctor because people like him. he's very well liked, and that's why it seems to senator santorum and a lot of us that it sort of came out of left field. >> so, first of all, he's president obama's personal doctor. so when you talk about -- and going back to previous administrations. so the idea that there should be something better done in the vetting process, clearly if these are true, that's obvious. but you can also forgive an administration for thinking, you know what, this person has been vetted. they've been passed through administration after

administration with one of the most important jobs that anyone in the federal government has, which is keeping the president healthy at all times. you can forgive someone for thinking that's probably a pretty stand-up guy and all the reports we've gotten are pretty stand-up. secondly, if he's handing out drugs to people, that's obviously a non-starter. if that's proven to be true, he's not going to be the next v.a. secretary, especially with the problem we have in this country, and how the president feels about it. he'll say no immediately. but who in the obama white house was going to the doctor and getting free drugs all the time? this doctor was just handing out drugs without prescriptions. oh, really. who to? obviously, the obama white house, that's where i start to think, some of this is getting a little bit extreme. look, if he was doing it or if he had a drinking problem, he's

not going to be the v.a. secretary. but some of it does make you wonder a little bit how extreme we've gone in the space of about 12 hours with these allegations. >> this is one person's fault. it's donald trump's fault. you say that about vetting but you know, as a political professional, how many people reach very high offices and then are promoted into a cabinet secretary role or to work in an administration and suddenly you find out things that voters back home, if they're a member of the house or senate, didn't know, and you're just at a much higher level, and that's why the vetting is so important. think of tom dashell when he had to withdraw because he had tax issues. it happens all the time. so i disagree with you that just because he was the white house doctor, he was somehow vetted thoroughly. >> i can see that he should be vetted better. everyone should be. but my point is this wasn't just someone who was like trump's guy that he played golf with that happened to be a doctor in palm beach, this was the president of the united states' personal doctor going back through a democratic and republican administration. you can forgive someone for thinking, hey, this is vetting enough, this guy is pretty solid. it's a mistake and they're going to pay.

but if donald trump just liked the guy and he's his buddy and he put him forward without thinking he's trusted to keep president obama for eight years in the white house, his personal doctor. >> you can be a great doctor, and have misconduct issues, and still be a great doctor to the president and the staff around him. the core of the problem at the white house right now is their office of personnel. they're not doing vetting. this isn't just a jackson problem. this is a problem across the administration where you hear senator after senator on these committees are saying, these people are coming to the senate without the vetting that they usually get in previous administrations, and i suppose it's fine if the white house doesn't want to vet its nominees, but again and again, they're going to trip into this issue. >> let's take a quick break. a lot more to talk about. dr. jackson not the only hire facing personal questions tonight. the latest on epa administrator

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are all the best people the president promised to hire in his campaign? >> i'm going to get the best people. >> we're going to deliver. we're going to get the best people in the world. >> we don't want people who are "b" level, "c" level, "d" level. we have to get the absolute best. >> we're using our smartest and best. we're not using political hacks anymore. >> it's a sophisticated chess match. but i have the best people lined up. >> we need people who are truly, truly capable. we have to get the best people. >> back now with the panel. mike, do you think the president has hired the best people? >> i do. i think he had a tremendous team from the very beginning, and when they don't live up to the standards he has, he'll get rid of them. i don't think he'll have any problem getting rid of ronny jackson if this happens, and if the v.a. doesn't like it, they're going to get rid of him. term limits have been a popular issue for decades because we get sick of our politicians not doing what they said they would do, and i don't think this president is afraid of changing out cabinet members over and

over again, until he gets the results he wants. which is why shulkin is gone. >> if you've done some vetting, why do you have to change them out? >> obviously, on the campaign trail he's going to say we're going to hire the best people. the transition i thought was run extremely well. they brought in a great team. some of them have not worked out. he's getting rid of some and putting new ones in. he's doing it a lot faster than other people. there were other administrations that people probably wish the president had traded out sooner in those administrations as well. >> look, mike, i think this is a little different because scott pruitt is a sworn enemy of the epa prior to him being installed as epa administrator. >> which is the real reason he's being attacked. >> the white house should not be his personal piggy bank. there is even an ethical investigation into his conduct. even his political mentor is

asking for an investigation into his conduct. scott pruitt is not suited to be the epa administrator to begin with and has no business being there. two, this job has exposed exactly who he is. >> mike, mike, mike. it is not the sierra club's fault or the media's fault or some deep state's fault or liberals' fault that scott pruitt is an ethical dumpster fire. he was absolutely qualified to take this job. but my three high school students could deregulate and undo all the obama era regulations at the epa. it's not really rocket science. anyone could be in scott pruitt's position doing the best to sort of -- like i said, scale back everything obama did and put in place every policy priority of the president's. it is his doing and his doing alone that he is in the situation he finds himself in, and they want to get rid of him. it has nothing to do with his policy practices. >> one thing you have to keep in

context in washington, d.c., is look what happened with the secretary of state's nomination. it has been completely bipartisan, where people have been confirmed overwhelmingly -- >> that has nothing to do with scott pruitt. >> but what happens, what democrats do, they ruin their credibility when senators come on here and start attacking every other nominee. >> the difference, i believe, between pompeo's nomination as secretary of state, you are the person who is the top diplomat for america. pompeo has said and backed some extremely problematic things. he's been anti-muslim, he's been anti-gay people, he's been problematic with women. which, if that's what we believe as americans across the board, sign him up and send them through. i do not think that's who we are as americans. >> those things are okay in the cia, then. >> i didn't think they were. okay, but the job description as

a cia director is a little different than secretary of state. >> nobody made scott pruitt go to morocco on a multi-day trip and have one, one-hour meeting. nobody made him do that. nobody made him go and have this shady setup with a lobbyist and pay $50 a night. that's why he's being investigated by one of his top supporters. senator inhoff is totally one of his top supporters. i don't think you can pin it on the left or some liberal establishment. >> i really cannot believe that you think this is the administration with the best people, as that word is traditionally defined. there's none better. i mean, there is a word that gets thrown around a lot by the left and democrats to describe the administration as a catistocracy, government by the worst.

whether you believe that or not, i don't remember republicans talking about the obama administration that way, or the bush administration being described that way. so if you're part of this before the trump era, you probably have some problems and you're not getting the absolute b-e-s-t -- >> this is what they do. >> but wait, this white house has had a problem because there were a number of republicans who were never-trumpers or who said critical things about the president, which clearly this white house ruled out those people. do you believe that that may have been part of the problem in terms of the limited pool that they had to -- >> there's no question the bench to choose from was not as deep as -- well, for any administration. there was a clear division, really, the old bush folks, a lot of the old bush folks never got over the treatment of jeb during the primary and were

never-trumpers. and a lot of those bush folks didn't want anything to do with this administration. but i disagree. look, i was very critical of the obama administration because it was filled with a bunch of academics, people who had no practical experience at all. in fact, it had the highest percentage of academics in any administration since fdr, and they had no practical experience on how to deal with these agencies in the real world. trump went in and put in a bunch of real world people. you can say they were -- i don't even know that word, but whatever the word you were just saying, and yes, you bring in people who are not government people, who are not academics and you're going to have some difficult times in this town because you're doing things very differently. >> do you think the best cream of the crop, the best? >> yeah, i think if you go through the list of folks in there, you have some really outstanding people. look -- >> and also the country was tired of really slick politicians that didn't have any

problems with no real world experience that were doing things that were harming them. so they voted for a president that was completely different, from the private sector, that never hold office before. >> let me tell you that that is not true, as someone who has spoken with these particularly persuadable voters, people they call obama voters. it's not true they will just put up with what's going on in this white house. >> what i'm saying is they want their lives to be better, they don't care about the scandals in d.c. if somebody is going to come to d.c. and offend everybody by appointing people they don't like, they're like, good. >> that's not a governing philosophy, is it? >> i think you just hit on

something i hear a lot on the right. i don't care about anything, i just want to piss off my political opponents. >> the right is we have policies, and the reason scott pruitt may survive this is because he's actually policy driven and he's doing things in this office that conservatives won't do. >> i saw his quote, he said these are questions we need to look at. and he has a right to have his day in court or before congress, to have these questions answers. >> let's take a break. when we come back, a lot more details we're learning about the first state dinner of the trump administration. ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun♪ ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun

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tonight, the president and first lady are hosting the first state dinner of the trump administration under way now with the president and first lady of france. melania trump helped plan a lot of the dinner, choosing the china, the menu and the state dinner teams. the president has had multiple interactions with president macron throughout the day. a lot of interesting variations on what it means to shake hands. so, i understand the planning of this dinner was done by melania

tonight. >> sure. she did a lot of gold and white, some china, some honey from the beehive on the south lawns. she certainly looked at things to inspire her. the gift she gave the macrons was a piece of fabric from the blue room of james monroe. i'm bad at my presidents. she thought it all through. and president trump is so off the cuff, and his history is fuzzy at times. she's very meticulous. wncht >> who was on the guest list? >> what stands out to me is who wasn't there. we didn't see pruitt, we didn't see nikki haley. we saw mnuchin, we saw ross, we saw more of the sort of trump friends in the cabinet. not a lot of democrats. certainly not the star power we're used to seeing. >> i think only one democrat was invited, the governor of louisiana.

>> who is -- >> obviously french history in louisiana. >> exactly. some cajun food was served tonight as well, cajun-inspired jambalaya. certainly not the bipartisan affairs we've seen in the past. >> rupert murdoch, i think, was there, obviously, from fox news. >> and also tim cook, the ceo of apple, and interestingly, tim cook took lisa jackson, apparently, we saw them together there, and lisa jackson was president obama's epa administrator, a well-known liberal democrat. she now works for apple. pruitt, not there, but at least jackson was there. i think it's kind of sad that we're at such a place with the trump administration that even as a gesture just for the optics, no nancy pelosi, no members with, maybe democrats

with a french background in congress, you know, just a completely -- even state dinners now are almost entirely partisan. >> there is also -- i don't know much about hats, but there was a lot of talk today about the hat. why was this such a big deal? >> i think it was a moment, and i think she thinks her outfits through very carefully. as i was saying to some people today, i don't really remember what the president was saying when he got to the podium because everybody was, hat, hat, hat. certainly she took the spotlight away from him, really. it was a custom-made hat by her personal stylist. people said it looked like beyonce, olivia pope in "scandal." certainly there was an influence of something. she left it on all day, inside and out. she trended, as we say, with that hat. she looked great, but it was a moment to take away a spotlight that was an important diplomatic moment. >> it is interesting that this is the first state dinner of this administration. i don't know what it says, but

it's interesting. >> it's been a while. >> most presidents have one in their first year, right, and it usually sends some kind of statement about maybe a change in policy or reorienting towards one country or another. you know, i think -- as someone who thinks it's really important for an inexperienced president who is a bit impulsive like donald trump to have some guardrails, i think it's a good thing that he and macron have this relationship, because macron seems to have figured out sort of the trump psychology. you know, you praise him a lot, you say nice things about him, he'll be your best friend. and frankly, that could have important dividends for our foreign policy when you have someone -- trump doesn't listen to any of the democrats, he doesn't listen to any of the sort of traditional liberal foreign policy establishment. if he's going to listen to the president of france, that might be a good thing for the united states. that's one thing you get out of this relationship that i personally think is a positive thing.

>> it is interesting the degree to which it seems like macron has sort of figured out a way to work with president trump. >> yes. he's effusive and he prefaced this meeting by preparing a great strategy, which is get on fox news and make points about serious policies like the iran deal and terrorists and those kinds of things. but he plays up that they're both mavericks, that they were the outsiders who came in, they have that in common. and they represent the people and not the establishment. trump loves that. and then there's a lot of touching and now double kissing. >> also sort of a weird bro hug today. >> yeah. it got a little strange. but trump was obviously enjoying it, it's obvious. when he was answering the questions on the iran deal, he made it clear he came to provide trump an off-ramp on the iran deal that would make it look like he wasn't recertifying but

he wasn't entirely pulling out. he strategized long and hard about this, and the way he greased it, at least by the reception of the press conference, thus far seems like he's pretty successful. >> there was one item that did not agree with the president. reporters questioned him about michael cohen and the answer from the president is next. wor" todd. hold on. [ engine revs ] arcade game: fist pump! your real bike's all fixed. man, you guys are good! well, we are the number-one motorcycle insurer in the country. -wait. you have a real motorcycle? and real insurance, with 24-hour customer support. arcade game: wipeout! oh! well... i retire as champion. game hog! champion. this one's below market price and has bluetooth. same here, but this one has leather seats!

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comcast, building america's largest gig-speed network. the president's lawyer, michael cohen, is under criminal investigation. today in the oval office, john karl had a question about cohen's future and the president didn't like the question very much. take a look. >> thank you very much. >> what about michael cohen? >> that's a stupid question. >> back, now, with the panel. called it a stupid question. in one sense, it's a difficult question because michael cohen has not been charged with anything. the question of a pardon may be premature. but people can be pardoned before they're charged. >> i think it's a reasonable thing to ask, given his willingness to pardon some people, like joe arpaio and

having questions about other pardons. and the fact he is enraged about the fbi raiding cohen's office. i don't think he knows for sure. he has tweeted out he believes that michael cohen wouldn't flip. but i don't think he's necessarily positive about that. >> he's clearly still -- you know, we talked to maggie earlier. he's upset about her article, in great detail, through numerous sources, details the way that donald trump as a citizen has treated michael cohen in public and private. >> it's been reported that his legal team dangled the idea of a pardon for some of the people that mueller has indicted or is looking into. he had two high-profile pardons that were controversial. the sheriff in arizona and recently scooter libby. >> and he's reached out to michael cohen on the phone and had him to mar-a-lago to dinner. >> at the peak of this

conversation, will he or will he not pardon cohen? he does a mysterious tweet about sylvester stallone calling him about a posthumous pardon. pardons are in the air. several staffers and administration officials have been indicted. it's a good question. >> senator santorum? >> i don't think the pardons he issued to joe arpaio or scooter libby were controversial. scooter libby should have been pardoned a long time ago. i don't think the pardons are outrageous. >> why didn't george bush pardon him then? >> it's pretty controversial. former presidents deeply disagreed with it. >> he wanted him to do it. >> this the another special prosecutor operation, that the special prosecutor knew he was not guilty. >> it was controversial enough that president george w. bush

and his vice president, they're relationship blew up over it. >> do you think it was coincidental that the president did it with scooter libby when he did it? and the joe arpaio one? and jack johnson out of the blue. >> i don't think the president does anything about thinking it through. is it possible that the president is trying to send a message. >> there's a game being played between mueller and his team. and raiding cohen's office is part of that game. you take it on face value, there's a lot of news, let's report that it was raided. behind the scenes, these teams are having a chess game back and forth. the mueller team is trying to get him to set down. the president is saying don't cross the lines. we're going to force you to cooperate. and there's sort of messages being sent like a cold war sending messages to each other.

and i see some of this being a part of the message. he should pardon jack jackson and look at a lot of other cases like his. >> to say that a game, that means that a judge -- you're not saying that there's not potential reason to do those raids. a judge signed off on it. >> i think a prosecutor also plays games. i think, of course, we don't know they're just following the law and investigating people. when people are indicted and make a big show, they probably did that to send a signal, of course they're playing games. they're trying to match wits with his team and put pressure on them. and the trump team, hopefully, is pushing back in a sophisticated way to put pressure on them. and of course, who is the lead lawyer in the trump team? president trump is. he's the chief of staff, the communications director and the legal counsel for his team, as well.

he's going to send messages back to mueller's team like, i'm not afraid to do x, y and z. >> mueller didn't raid the office. i don't understand. he didn't have the fbi -- >> he referred something to new york. they're the ones who got the warrant. >> you can't do the raids without meeting the high threshold of the likelihood of evidence. >> he referred it. it's considered -- if you don't think that president trump thinks that mueller had something to do with that, there's signals being sent. my belief, i don't know this. i'm not privy to this. reading about investigations like this, prosecutors and the people that are being investigated are sending signals to each other. that's happening. >> here's my question. >> the president tweeted that michael cohen wouldn't flip.

he didn't tweet that there was nothing to flip on. i think he's sending signals. there's something there. maybe we'll find out what it is. >> we'll be right back. more news ahead. i have to tell you something incredible. capital one has partnered with hotels.com to give venture cardholders 10 miles on every dollar they spend at thousands of hotels. all you have to do is pay with this... at hotels.com/venture. 10 miles per dollar? that is incredible. brrrrr. i have the chills. because you're so excited? because ice is cold. and because of all those miles. obviously. what's in your wallet? i'm not sure. what's in your wallet?

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quick reminder about tomorrow night. tune in for a live town hall with james comey and his new book and all of the controversy it's creating. tune in wednesday, 8:00 p.m. eastern. i hope you join us for that. thanks for watching "360." time to hand it over to don lem lemon. "cnn tonight" starts now. "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. why the controversy deepens into a scandal, the first state dinner is happening at the white house, honoring emmanuel macron and his wife. the event a high-profile demonstration of what looks like a close relationship between the two presidents, you can call it if you want, a bromance. but the star of the evening, melania trump, getting her moment to shine, after taking the lead on all of the details of this evening, from