>> jeanne moos, cnn, new york. >> thank you for joining us. and don't forget, you can watch "outfront" any time, go to cnn go. ac 360 starts right now. >> good evening, we begin with growing signs the white house is truly on war footing with robert mueller and the justice department. on news that could be another vacancy on the legal team. we know that tie cob was not just retiring at the end of the month having done a treerrific job. he had been clashing with the president for weeks. now he is leaving and flood is joining the legal team which wasn't exactly a surprise.

cnn political analyst, maggie haberman reported on that months ago. back when maggie reported, two months ago, the president went out of his way to tell a falsehood and attack maggie as well. president trump is in decisions with a veteran washington lawyer who represented bill clinton during the -- joining the white house to help deal. instead, he chose to tweet this, and it shows you a lot about his honesty, quote, the failing "new york times" purposely wrote a false story. wrong, i am very happy with my lawyers, john dowd, ty cobb and

jay sekulow. so keeping them honest, and went on to say she knows nothing about. first of all, maggie haberman was right. the president said he was happy with his three lawyers. two of those three lawyers he was happy with are no longer his lawyers. as for the claim that haberman is not given access and knows nothing about the president, that is a refrain from the president. -- who i don't speak to and have nothing to do with. now, you can believe the president on that or you can believe your eye, oh look, it is maggie haberman and mr. trump, they go back many years. interviewed him many times has had countless scoops.

and poses a photo. ongoing legal shakeup we white house. the jousting on whether president will sit down with mueller. and jim acosta joining us now with the latest. >> reporter: as you were setting up there, it sounds as though the trump legal team was getting on a war footing, taking on an aggressive posture and tone. according to the source familiar with his departure, i am told that ty cobb was not only happy with the tweets going after the special counsel mueller that he didn't want to be a part of a mudslinging campaign. it was a path he could not go down any farther. what you are seeing at this point is the beginning of the next stage which is go to war with the special counsel's

office. we are also hearing rumblings that perhaps another member of the president's legal team may be out soon. dan mcgahn, we are hearing from a couple of sources saying that mcgahn is expected to leave the white house in a couple of months. mcgahn may be going back to the campaign this time for re-election. take somebody who has been involved with the president for months now, on all of these legal matters will be moving on. i was told emmett flood was coming in to replace mcgahn. if you do that again, you have another vacancy. >> and the president again, threatened to get involved with the department of justice.

>> this was a tweet that ty cobb was objecting to. effectively saying the president is going to get involved, that is rhetoric that ty cobb didn't want any part of. now obviously, he is boxed in at this point. if he tries to shut down mueller, republicans on capitol hill say this may impeach this president. at the same time he is also thinking about the possibility of not sitting down for an interview with robert mueller. giuiliani who is also on the outside team told the "washington post," they are trying to taylor the number of hours that mueller can use. that is if the president decides ultimately this is something he wants to do. and earlier this evening, he put out another tweet quoting john dowd his outside attorney saying you are messing with the business of the presidency of

the united states by trying to tie him up with all of this. that is what john dowd told the "washington post." it is not clear whether he can succeed in all of this. from what we know about the nixon tapes, that went to the supreme court. the supreme court said no. you have to cooperate with the authorities. >> there is also that and also breaking news involving one former trump campaign aid. michael michael cap paouto. he went on to say, they know more about the trump campaign than anyone who worked there. the senate and the house are net fishing, quote the special counsel is spear fishing. i want to bring in jeffrey

toobin. just about their abilities, their focus, how concerned should the president's people in his orbit be tonight? i would be very nervous. >> the mueller investigation is like an iceberg. think back, a couple of months now when mueller's office indicted 13 russians for the social media conspiracy. most people didn't know they were investigating that subject. i mean, they are operating with the secrecy that we have never seen in washington. and they are learning a lot. it is an a team that they have there. and i have tried, a lot of journalists have tried to figure

out what they know. the witnesses all sound like caputo that they are shocked and impressed. >> caputo said spear fishing. how does that undermine the president's reliance on house intelligence. >> anderson, the house republicans shot themselves in the foot over and over again, first with the so-called unmasking scandal that turned out to be a nothing burger. the nunes memo. the president can't rely on that. increasingly, he has no cover. mueller knows what he is doing. he is very experienced. he has got the a-team, the delta force in there.

it is not a comfortable feeling for the fish when the spear is coming his way. so trump is feeling that discomfort. and you see it in the frantic tweets that he is issuing these days. >> jim, the president can tweet all he wants, but if caputos experience, mueller's team doesn't seem phased at all. >> it is hard to know how much caputo knows about the campaign. and there were a lot of folks that came and went from that campaign throughout the process. so it is speculative. >> what is interesting about what he is saying, is it is more about his perception of mueller's knowledge of the campaign. >> i guess we will hear more about it at 9:00. i am anxious to here what he has to say.

the fact of the matter he himself was not there all that long. i am not sure how much he knew about the campaign. >> fair point. jeff, when the president threatens on twitter to get involved in the justice department. how do you read that? >> it is very serious. we are in a deadly serious moment now. the firing -- not firing, the departure of cobb and arrival of flood. and rod rosenstein is the most vulnerable person. mueller, it would be too dramatic to fire him. but rosenstein is clearly hanging by a thread. and the specific controversy he is talking about is that rosenstein is honoring years of tradition in the justice department that they don't turn over to congress material

relating to pending investigations. that is an old established policy that the house republicans are upset about because they want to know what is going on. rosenstein is holding firm on that but we'll see. i mean the house is talking about impeaching him. and the president is upset. i mean, i think rosenstein is, they would love to get rid of him. he's not gone yet. >> ambassador eisen. >> anderson, the fascinating thing and it is a crisis for the country, but one can't avoid the drama of the crisis. this is a battle that is fought in all courts. there is clearly has been activity. and there will continue to be activity in congress. should the house of

representatives flip, there will be an intense new oversight. there is parallel civil cases that bear upon what is going on and most of all, it is being fought out in the court of public opinion. this is an all-fronts war. emmett flood is a pro at fighting those battles. trump has finally brought in a true general. it is lake when lincoln cycled through all of those generals before he finally got grant to come on board. the only question is, trump is no lincoln. it is pretty tough to have donald trump as your client. >> what leverage does rudy giuliani have? if the president even agrees to talk at all?

at what point does mueller say, look, we'll get a subpoena. >> okay. and what is going to happen there, that would drag on this investigation longer and longer and longer. no one wants to see it protracted court battle here. that is why you see rudy giuliani coming in just prior to the appointment of emmett flood to talk about scope. and narrowing the scope and getting the public ready for what is coming. the president is willing to talk but on reasonable topics for a reasonable reasonable amount of time. just like bush did in the scooter libby issue. >> i think judy giuiliani is on solid ground in trying to set a time limit. when bill clinton testified in the lewinsky matter.

and you know, he cannot be expected to testify for two full days. the idea of a time limit whether voluntary or impose by the court is something that is likely to happen >> i couldn't agree more -- >> sorry, you go ahead. >> bringing emmett flood in, he is an experienced professional and he knows the special counsel laws and on the heels of what giuiliani is saying, he is going to be effectively be counseling the president on what he needs to be doing and should be doing in getting ready for these interviews. i think it is important to note ty cobb was replaced by flood and not mcgahn. and mcgahn is going to be in that white house as long as he wants to be there. >> sorry, i lost jim. sorry about that.

thanks very much. as i mentioned i will talk with former trump campaign aide caputo. what happened when mr. trump was deposed in the past when he was a citizen. and what is the truth these days especially when it comes to president trump. according to the washington post, lied thousands of times while in office. touch is how we communicate with those we love, but does psoriasis ever get in the way? embrace the chance of 100% clear skin with taltz. for people with moderate to severe psoriasis, up to 90% had a significant improvement of their psoriasis plaques. with taltz, 4 out of 10 even achieved completely clear skin. don't use if you're allergic to taltz. before starting, you should be checked for tuberculosis. taltz may increase risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection, symptoms,

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new information about the president's legal shakeup. giuiliani is speak ougt to reporters about the possibility of special counsel robert mueller. >> when you are in the middle of investigation, you can lose objectivity, is are they objective about the president's interview meaning do they have an open mind that he will be telling a truth and comey may be lying. if they have an open mind to that, then this is something we will consider. if they don't, then given the irregularities of the investigation, well be foolish to have him be interviewed. >> it is certainly a big if. the president has been in exactly that setting before giving depositions as private

citizens. here is randi kaye on how some of those turned out. >> reporter: if it was a test of honesty, the future president didn't fair well. lawyers asked about trump's boast regarding how much he was paid for a 2005 speech he gave as new york city's learning annex. trump, i was paid more than a million dollars saying the same thing to larry king in 2005. >> you got a million dollars for appearance in the learning annex. >> that's true. >> reporter: but it wasn't. what he didn't reveal was that more than half of the $1 million he claimed he got for the speech was his own estimate of the value of the publicity that came along with it. the lawyer asked how much of the payments were cash?

trump, slight, approximately $400,000. also not coming clean in a stake in a manhattan real estate project. trump claimed 50%. the lawyer asked do you own 30% or 50% in the limited partnership? the answer, i own 30%. he asked that the real estate community would interpret your interest. on the subject of his net worth, author said trump was worth far less than the five to $6 billion trump claimed. he was asked have you ever not been truthful about your net worth? his response is my net worth

fluctuates. lied exaggerated or told false hoods 30 times during the deposition. 30 times. on the subject of the number of people working for him. >> how many people work for you? >> 22,000 or so. >> in court, the lawyer asked are all of those people on your payroll? no, not directly. turns out he was factoring in other employees of other companies that he contracted. and on his claims that he had ze zero borrowings in his father's estate, he said about $9 million. he said members had been going for $300,000. and again proven to have stretched the truth when the lawyer questioning him provided an internal document showing the

correct figure, $200,000 per membership. trump was cornered. correct, he conceded. >> as part of a government investigation, but saul wisenberg was part of the white water team. he joins us. thanks for being with us. >> obviously, still, a lot in the air, but if the president agrees. and he were to not tell the truth, what happens in real time? how does that play out? >> well, nothing necessarily happens in real time. what a typical prosecutor would do would be to decide later whether or not to prosecute the person for perjury and of course with the case of president trump, you deal right away with the difficult question of whether or not you can indict a

sitting president. now what you would do, you might try to humiliate him by showing he was lying. you can do that. but fot linot like you can stop grand jury and say we think you are lying. and we are taking you to the truth. >> they can get the person to reverse themselves. >> you can do that. you can question someone at the grand jury in whatever manner you want. you can treat them in a friendly. or treat them like a direct examination or treat it like a cross-examine. when i questioned president c n clinton, i treated like a cross examination. >> does that original lie still count as perjury? >> it is tricky.

two different federal perjury statutes and under one of them, if you come in and recant before you are charged, it can be a defense and also, people at the grand jury are told, if you misremember something, or need to change your testimony, you can contact the prosecutor. it is difficult to charge and convict somebody for perjury. it has got to be clear-cut. there is a thing called true but misleading statement. something that is literally true even if it is misleading is not perjury. >> if the president were to lie to mueller in a voluntary interview which in and of itself were to be a crime, could that end up with the president being compelled to testified before a grand jury. >> i think the president could be compelled to testify in front

of a grand jury as a general matter. the presidents are not above the wall and certainly mueller can issue a subpoena. i don't think it has to do with whether or not he told a false statement first. there is a very interesting point that i don't think has been stressed enough here. everybody talks about u.s. versus nixon. the decision that said nixon had to hand over tapes. in u.s. versus nixon, the supreme court thought it was significant that the special prosecutor had specific authority to litigate the issue of executive privilege and to challenge it. bob mueller as far as i can tell does not have that authority. what could very well happen here, is mueller issues a subpoena and the president goes

into court and claims executive privilege and says bob mueller is my inferior officer he doesn't have the right to question me about that. >> i appreciate your expertise, thanks for being with us. coming up next, keeping them honest, the bigger picture with this president. two views, whether it is a problem at all. i feel a great deal of urgency... i think, keep going, and make a difference.

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we began doing keeping them honest report the in the wake of hurricane katrina. the basic promises government can make to their citizens. keeping them honest is taking on new dimensions where politicians once shaded the truth changed the questions and flat out lied. today it is defereifferent. lies about big things and small and amplified by repetition from the bully pulpit. and keeping them honest every day seems to bring a new one or

reveal yesterday's dubious claim as an outright false hood or concoction. such as this one revealed yesterday about president trump's health. >> if your health is as strong as it seems, why not share your medical records. >> i have no problem in doing it. should i do it? i don't care. it is two letters. one is the report and the other is from lennox hill hospital. >> that letter from dr. harold bornstein sounded outlandish at the time. his physical strength and stamina is kpoextraordinary. and of course yesterday dr. bornstein said those glowing words were dictated by mr. trump. about his over-the-top patient, except it had to do with the

physical and mental fitness of the man to be commander in chief. the president has made more than 3,000 false or misleading statements in office so far. none of the 49 questions mueller wants to ask him has to do with collusion, in fact 13 do. or now according to the post fact checkers he has reported that. lies on the campaign trail but never cease once the president was in office. >> a field where it looks like a million, million and a half people. honestly, whatever it was, it was. it went all the way back to the washington monument.

and by mistake, i get this network and it showed an empty field and it said we drew 250,000 people. that is not bad, but it is a lie. we had 250,000 people literally in the little bowl that we constructed. >> well the president sent his press secretaries out to defend this untruth and repeated it several times. and even formed a presidential commission to investigate. the president says and continues to say this about the border wall. >> we started building our wall. i am so proud of it. we started, we have 1.6 billion. and we have already started, you saw the pictures yesterday. what a thing of beauty. >> we sent garry tuckman. the president has repeated lied

about that. the question is does anybody care? several of the president's supporters don't seem to. digging deeper now, with former trump campaign strategy, and anti trump strategist and thor. >> what does it say about his relationship. it speaks to that and also to this man's incredible vanity. this is a guy we know very little about his health status. having to have his personal doctor and then a navy physician reflect things about him that may or may not be truth except in his own head. even when it comes down to things like his medical facts. does it concern you at all that

he dictated this letter to his doctor? >> look, you know, with all due respect, we know rick is no fan of this president and his position is quite clear where he is coming from. i think the president may dictate the letter, we are taking this gentleman's word who breached this doctor/patient relationship by telling "the new york times" what prescription the president took. as regards to his own personal information. if the president did in fact dictate it, what does it say about the doctor, is he telling the truth? the doctor signed the letter. he is not saying nothing in the letter is false. >> you are putting it on the doctor. >> what does it say about the patient, his lifetime physician is a guy that he can manipulate

to do whatever he wants. >> i don't think that is fair. i think again, going with your assertion the president dictated the letter, the president may have said, look, this is what i would like to emphasize, if the doctor went and head and signed it. i have run up flights of stairs with this guy, he is in great shape. the president is in great physical shape and reflected not just by this doctor, but by dr. jackson. but also that dr. jackson was not telling the truth. >> you are telling me if hillary clinton had dictated to her doctor or barack obama had dictated to his doctor say i have the best genes. >> we all watched hillary clinton pass out completely pass out.

>> and people's heads exploded. >> and we were told she had a fainting spell and everybody saw that and she was whisked away. and i don't hear anybody clamoring about her medical records. >> she is also not the president. >> who are you calling a liar? are you calling dr. ronny jackson a liar. >> i remember broadcasting a lot about hillary clinton's fainting. and we questioned all of this stuff. but you are telling me honestly, you are telling me if hillary clinton, if it turned out that she dictated her doctor's later or braarack obama, that republicans would not be making a big deal about this? >> no. bottom line question is this, just wait -- is anybody saying

either of those doctors in these instances, is anybody accusing them of lying in these cases. >> let's hold on to that. >> lies of omission are still lies. >> i want to continue this right after the break. when we come back we will talk about the relationship and his truth as well. your friend @just_marea. you like her. she's really good at social media. she buys stocks in companies that "stand for something." you like her.

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talking about president trump, the truth, his

relationship to it and whether it should matter. the issue at hand, the president's health and the doctor's admission that it was patient and not doctor wrote the glowing report. is anybody saying that dr. jackson or bornstein that is correct they are actually lying? >> well, i think there are certain degrees that we have to look at lies of omissions being lies as well. you can have the literal truth written down on paper. >> is that -- >> wait a second. or you can leave out relevant facts. you can leave out important details and there are a lo tt o reasons to ask if there are important details left out of

the medical records. the president has found have lied over 3,000 times. once again, anderson's question is relevant. if barack obama or hillary clinton did this, the right would be losing their damn minds, and i would be. >> i talked to jim jordan a couple of weeks ago and ask him if he ever heard the president lie whether to his face or to american people. let me put you on the spot. have you heard the president ever lie. >> no. the president has never lied to me. and i don't think the president lies to the american people. >> when newspapers report that he has lied or misconstrued facts, thr3,000 times.

>> listen, i have not sat next to the president -- >> no, watching on tv or anything, publicly. >> the president is prone to high b hyperbole. purposely lied to the american people, i do not. >> wow. >> i am not sure i believe you that that is what you really believe. >> i really believe that. the president is prone to hyperbole. >> factually he has said things that are not true. the millions of illegal immigrants who voted and is the reason why hillary clinton won the vote. >> i put that in hyperbole. >> what is the difference. >> some is i believe during the campaign. i can play tape from 535 members

of congress and i would promise, you would say is that a lie or campaign hyperbole. >> i still haven't heard the difference between hyperbole and a lie. rick, do you know the difference between hyperbole and a lie? >> a hyperbole is an exaggeration that could be truthful or untruthful. a lie is misstatement of fact. donald trump makes them thousands of times a year. look, there are things thaw know donald trump lied about. he lied when he said i think president obama was born in kenya. that was a lie. that was not campaign hyperbole. >> did you know his state of mind? >> it doesn't matter, it is an untruth. >> no, you are saying you know the press knew it was a lie when he said that. >> absolutely he knew it was e

lie. >> the president has been shown the facts and still say that. it is a lie. it is just something which is not true and he knows it. he doesn't want to believe it. >> call me old fashion, but i would love to have a president that believed truth mattered. and put your best spin on something, make your best case for something, but don't say i have accomplished the following thing when it doesn't happen. the following threat exists when the following threat does not exist. it would be nice to see the president at some point settle down a little bit and stop trying to bs the american people about everything he does. and not just play the showman. >> even stuff like they have started to build donald trump's border wall, i mean that is not true. the $1.6 billion, the

refurbishing existing wall which is something that has happened under every administration maybe that not a big deal. do you not worry there is a danger just american people becoming numb to it. >> you are not going to let him become numb. you and rick are going to pound away at this. >> i think lies matter whether it is president obama or hillary clinton or anybody. it used to be that lies matter. >> i agree that lies matter. >> let me ask you one more time. did millions of illegal immigrants vote in california and is that why hillary clinton won the popular vote. >> it doesn't matter what i think. >> i am wondering if you think it is true or not. >> no. >> so the president has said that and the commission he set up is now disappeared and they found nothing. so let me give you one more

chance. >> he is incorrect in that instance. >> is that a lie? >> i don't know if it is a lie or being incorrect. i will say he is incorrect. >> thank you, guys. i appreciate it. >> thanks. >> new details on a deadly plane crash in savannah, georgia, we will tell you the latest. [ drum roll ] ...emily lapier from ames, iowa. this is emily's third nomination and first win. um...so, just...wow! um, first of all, to my fellow nominees, it is an honor sharing the road with you. and of course, to the progressive snapshot app for giving good drivers the discounts -- no, i have to say it -- for giving good drivers the discounts they deserve. safe driving! for giving good drivers the discounts they deserve. i am totally blind. and non-24 can make me show up too early... or too late.

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one o of the workhorses of the military the aircraft fleet crashed today. you can see it in the top center of the screen what appears to be a steep dive. the four-engine turbo prop with nine aboard was headed to arizona to be decommissioned when it went down. cnn's nick valencia is there for us tonight. what are you learning about the plane and its crew? >> reporter: anderson, as you mentioned, this flight was on its way or this plane was on its

way to be decommissioned in arizona in what appears to be its last flight, when it was involved in a deadly crash. we know that there were nine airmen onboard, nine airmen that have yet to be identified. and according to a puerto rican government official who i spoke to, no one appears to have survived. we did speak to the national guard, as well, earlier until puerto rico. they tell me that this specific plane, this c-130 had undergone routine maintenance in the last few days and had been cleared to fly and make that flight to arizona, where it was going to be decommissioned and put into the boneyard. it was such a violent crash that when we got here, anderson, about three or four hours afterwards, there was debris that was still smoldering, smoke was still in the air. in fact, at this hour, the rear portion of the plane is still here on this georgia highway. anderson? >> there were witnesses, i know, to the crash. what did they describe? >> reporter: we spoke to one witness who says that the pilot in this case was a hero. this witness claims that the pilot was doing evasive maneuvering and it appears trying to avoid crashing into any cars or any people.

and it really is miraculous, when you think that this thoroughfare, it's such a busy thoroughfare, and about 200 feet or so here off camera, anderson s , is a gas station. and you can imagine what is already a huge and enormous debris field, 600 by 600 feet, would have been a lot bigger and a lot worse had that pilot crashed into that gas station or something else more hazardous. >> just awful. nick valencia, appreciate your reporting. coming up, we'll talk with a frequent guest of ours who today was a guest on robert mueller's panel. his take on what the special counsel knows and whether the white house is equipped to cope with it, next. little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months, ... with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla.

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tonight, someone who just went up against robert mueller's team and what he learned about the case that mueller might already have. michael caputo has a lot to say about that and how the special counsel's investigation compares with the house and senate probes. this caps a day with the president beginning with a threat against the justice department and finally presidential attorney rudy giuliani laying down the terms under which he believes his client and mr. mueller might talk. >> what i'm concerned about, because i know how when you're in the middle of an investigation, you can lose some objectivity, is, are they objective about the president's interview? meaning, do they have an open

mind to the fact that he may be telling the truth and comey may be lying? if they have an open mind to that, then this is a -- something we would consider. if they don't, then given all of the irregularities in this investigation, we would be foolish to have him be interviewed. >> rudy giuliani on fox news. he also spoke with "the wall street journal," calling the proposed mueller/trump sit-down, and i'm quoting here, a bs interview that should never be taking place anyway. with that as a buildup, we're joined now by former trump campaign aide, michael caputo. michael, thanks for being with us. i'm sure it's been a long day. so based on your interview today, how much does mueller's team know, duo you think? >> well, i think, the mueller team knew more about what i did in 2016 than i did myself. and i think they know more about the trump campaign than anyone who ever worked there. these guys have got every single e-mail, anything that's ever gone down, and they're clearly