good evening. john berman here in for anderson. there is breaking news tonight in the form of reporting from "the wall street journal." when the president and his team will decide when the president will testify in the mueller probe. may 17th is the date they reportedly want to decide. may 17th, you might remember, is the one-year anniversary of robert mueller being appointed special counsel. "the journal" details some mock q and a sessions the president has been involved in, and the

results have been, shall we say, interesting. the reporter who broke the story will join us shortly. but we begin tonight keeping them honest with a new noteworthy chapter in the never ending ever changing story coming from the president and the newest member of his legal team, rudy giuliani's new interview is full of twists and turns and at least one statement that is just not true. >> what happens if robert mueller subpoenas the president? will you comply? >> well, we don't have to, he's the president of the united states. we can assert the same privilege as other presidents have. >> keeping them honest, it is not true that the president does not have to comply with a subpoena simply because he is president of the united states. in fact, let's remember how this has turned out for other presidents. the supreme court has been pretty clear, there was a subpoena ordering richard nixon to turn over tapes in the watergate case and the supreme court ruled against the president, concluding the fundamental ghapds of due process of law overrode the president's argument to keep them private. then there was the paula jones

civil case against bill clinton. again, the supreme court ruled that president clinton could not invoke presidential immunity to delay that case. and the monica lewinsky skas, ken starr did get a subpoena for clinton to testify, when the president agreed to the interview, that subpoena was withdrawn. so, it's true the president could fight any subpoena, argue executive privilege, but there is certainly no guarantee that fight would be successful and historical evidence to the contrary. now, giuliani showed up to this interview having already rocked the boat, admits the president reimbursed michael cohen for the hush money payment to porn star stormy daniels. that was after the president said on air force once he didn't know about the payment. and the new interview, giuliani dropped another doozy, what may be, if you forgive the oxymoron, the world's least surprising bombshell. >> and you said he, this was a regular arrangement he had with michael cohen. did michael cohen make other payments to other women for the

president? >> i would think if it was necessary, yes. he made payments for the president, or, he conducted business for the president. which means he had legal fees, moneys laid out, and expenditures. >> sarah sanders was asked about this at the white house today. >> are there other women out there who received money from the president to stay quiet? >> i'm not aware of any other activity, but i would refer you to rudy giuliani to respond to any of those questions. >> ah, yes. punt to rudy giuliani. that should clear everything right up. so, getting back to the mueller probe, there was giuliani's statement that the president would not have to comply with a subpoena, again, historically not true, and then there was this -- >> are you confident the president will not take the fifth in this case? >> oh, how could i ever be confident of that? when i'm facing a situation with the president and all the other lawyers are, in which every lawyer in america thinks he'd be a fool to testify. >> so, sarah sanders was also asked about this at the white

house. >> i want to know why the president would even go that route if he hasn't done anything wrong as he said repeatedly that there was no collusion and there was no obstruction of justice. >> that's ta question you'd hav to ask the outside counsel. >> the president is also not an attorney, but he has addressed what he thinks about people that do take the fifth. >> have you seen what's going on in front of congress? fifth amendment, fifth amendment, fifth amendment. horrible. horrible. the mob takes the fifth. if you're innocent, why are you taking the fifth amendment? when you have your staff taking the fifth amendment, taking the fifth so they're not prosecuted, i think it's disgrateful. >> so, it is safe to say the president and white house already face serious questions about credibility, whether it's the stormy daniels timeline or issues surrounding the mueller investigation. the story is also changing. after giuliani said the

president did, indeed, reimburse cohen for the hush money, sarah sanders said he was unaware of that fact until giuliani said it. and the president said giuliani was still on some sort of learning curve. >> rudy knows it's a witch hunt. he started yesterday. ah -- he'll get his facts straight. >> so, he's new. he's learning. he'll get his facts straight. that was friday. this was giuliani yesterday, sunday, talking about the mixed messages about the stormy daniels case. >> right now, i'm at the point where i'm learning and i can knowledge -- i can't prove that, i can just say it's rumor. i can prove it's rumor, but i can't prove it's fact. my issue is getting up to speed of the facts here. but it could have been recently, could have been awhile back. those are the facts that we're working on and maybe in a little bit of dispute. >> dispute? i can prove it's rumor? the facts we're still working on? now, i did not go to law school, but i'm pretty sure that is not how the law works.

or facts, for that matter. one nice thing about facts is they just are what they are. they don't need to be worked on or written or rewritten. it's actually pretty easy for everyone to be on the same page if that page is a list of facts. this white house, this president and this lawyer seem like they're not just not on the same page, the page got ripped out, dropped in a puddle, torn to shreds and now barely legible pieces are scattered all over washington. but maybe we should cut them some slack, after all, it is still rudy giuliani's first day. except that it's not. now, to that new reporting tonight from "the wall street journal" about how the president has been getting ready for a possible interview with robert mueller and when the legal team hopes to make that decision. peter nicholas of "the wall street journal" is with us now. rudy giuliani told you that the president's legal team hopes to decide if the president should testify, they want to make that decision by may 17th. what did he tell you about what's factoring into that decision? >> well, the may 17th is the

one-year anniversary of the appointment of bob mueller and there's some skepticism and giuliani talked about why this could be a risky move for the president. he's concerned that it could be -- he could be leading the president into a perjury trap, if he green lights something like this. worried about specific questions that mueller might ask. and worried about how the president -- his lawyers are worried about how the president might answer these questions. one thing that we learned is that there's a concern that trump is a little too loquacious, he goes on too long, he goes off on tangents and all this could invite more questions from bob mueller. so, there's some great skepticism on the part of the trump legal team about whether to go forward with this. >> giuliani told you that every day, they swing a little different, as he puts it, on whether the president should sit down with robert mueller, so, did he explain why they're going back and forth on this? >> yeah, i think they see there's public relations value in the president agreeing to do this interview. that there's some expectation on

the public's part if the president is saying he's innocent, this is a witch hunt, there's no obstruction, there's no collusion, then why not go before the special prosecutor and say those things? so, they understand that, and they're weighing that, or balancing that, against the peril that any witness would face who is the subject of an investigation, going before the special cown semi. >> giuliani said he thinks the safest course and the course he would prefer is for the president not to testify. why does he think that? >> well, giuliani is a former u.s. attorney, a wlur has represented people in private practice. he said that he was pretty blunt about it, he said he always -- he never wanted his clients to testify, and as u.s. attorney, he felt that the witnesses who did testify, subjects of investigation, were walking into some peril, and he could exploit that and take advantage of that, as prosecutor. so, he comes at this from a very skeptical place, where i think

he is well aware of the pitfalls this presents. >> something interesting in our article, you reported on a practice session that president trump's attorneys put him through. what did your sources tell you about that? >> well, yes. so they ran some sample questions by president trump in the white house residence to see how he would do, and they made very little headway. they were there for four hours, but they were repeatedly interrupted. national security advisers would come into the room, they want to talk to the president about north korea, or iran, the lawyers would have to leave the room, because they did the interview privy to that, then they would come back, try to resume the q and a, and they found that the president was kind of, as i mentioned, long-winded in his answers and they weren't able to cover very much ground. so, it was not a successful experiment, is what i'm told. >> peter nicholas, great reporting. thank you so much for being with us. >> great to be with you. >> joining us now, jim acosta at the white house and cnn chief political analyst gloria borger.

has the white house responded to this idea of a may 17th decision? >> reporter: not yet, john. they have not responded yet. i will tell you that earlier today, sarah sanders, the white house press secretary, she was sort of raegd from different talking points today. i think gone are the days where they're really going to speculate a whole lot on these legal troubles facing the president. she was essentially just referring us over and over again to the president's legal team, but i did talk to a source close to these discussions recently, who said that the president's legal team is making a final push to make this determination one way or the other as to whether or not the president is going to sit down with robert mueller. this source i spoke with said the odds are around 50/50, and that rudy giuliani's comments obviously complicated matters and they are trying to work through that. >> gloria? >> well, i think there's once source that talked to pam brown who said they are looking forwards this may 17th deadline, about deciding whether he should or shouldn't testify, but this source said it's all fluid.

and my sources are telling me the reason this is fluid is because this league team right now is being run by two people. the president of the united states and rudy giuliani, who, as you pointed out earlier, is not readily read in on the legal case. don't forget, he has a new lawyer coming in, emmet flood, who has to undergo all kinds of security clearance in order to deal with this case, he hasn't done that yet. you've got the raskins who are coming into this case new. and most of the attorneys believe the president should not testify. and i think they would agree with rudy giuliani on that, but they have this sense, watching this, watching it play out over the weekend and last week, is that rudy giuliani and the president are kind of freelancing here a little bit -- >> what would give you that idea? >> i don't know. and that every time they see it, they want to kind of pull their hair out, or at least pull rudy giuliani into a room with all of them, which is what i think they're going to try to do, and get on the same page.

they like his pr message, which is, you know, to try to discredit mueller and the whole team and the investigation, but as to the specifics about what the president's going to do, and what the legal team is going to do, not so much. >> jim, what are you seeing in terms of tension from the legal team? we should say, there's only been tension whatever legal team it seems the president has had. >> reporter: there are tensions inside the legal team. there was one person who was referring to this as an s-show, i'm not going to use the full expletive there, when describing rudy giuliani's performance last week. that obviously is a sign of some tensions inside the legal team. i think somebody else used the term wtf, i will just use the abbreviated portion of that there. but john, there's also a frustration inside the white house press office. they feel like more and more they should just keep themselves walled off from questions about the mueller investigation, because you saw what happened with sarah sanders last week, her own words came back to haunt her, and i think that's why you saw her earlier today really

just overand over again almost robotically say, i want to refer you back to the president's legal team. it makes you wonder whether, at some point, they're just going to have to put somebody else in that briefing room alongside sarah sanders to answer some of these questions, because that is going to become sort of a broken record, just to hear the white house spokesperson say that over and over again. it sounds like from what gloria is saying and what peter is saying, we are getting close to something. the question is whether or not a subpoena is issued, and at that point, we could see this stretch on for months if this goes all the way to the supreme court. so, these questions, whether they're robotically answered or not, may continue for some time, john. >> and i think the legal team would like to find a spokesperson, so, sarah sanders doesn't have to stand up there and do that. but it's hard to get a spokesperson, because that person knows they're going to have to hire a lawyer themselves if they were to become a spokesperson at this point. so, it's a very difficult job, which nobody is actually running to fill. >> is rudy giuliani actually

doing anything more than being a spokesperson? i'm having a hard time following his law efforts here. >> well, you know, we're not in their meetings yet, because they probably haven't had many meetings yet. so, i think when they do all get together, we'll learn a little about that, but we do know that he and the president are on the same page. the question that i'm hearing is, how long will rudy giuliani last until the president decides he's getting a little too much publicity, maybe he's getting a little too out front on this one, and maybe he ought to cool it. >> he is the public face of this, that is for sure. gloria, jim, thank you very much. joining me now, jeffrey toobin, elizabeth foul lley and david gergen. rudy giuliani, by his own admission, still doesn't have his facts completely straight. he's sure about the rumors, but still getting up to speed on the facts, which he says are still in dispute. at the same time, he's saying to "the wall street journal," they're going to have their decision by the 17th, at the

same time, he's saying things about michael cohen. is any of this helpful to the president? >> no. look. i think we can all acknowledge that rudy giuliani is making a fool of himself, because he doesn't know what he's doing, he doesn't know what he's talking about. he's talking about the hostages in north korea, just things he shouldn't be talking about, and as you point out, he doesn't know the facts. but i do think we are heading for a resolution, which will include the departure of rudolph giuliani. they will make a decision about trump's testimony and giuliani will say, that's what i came here to do, now i'm leaving and that will be by popular demand, especially by the president of the united states. >> you know, elizabeth, professor foley, obviously the president does have other lawyers besides giuliani, but giuliani is the face of it. is that a functional relationship, having the guy who may not be as up to speed on the law out there talking the most

about the law? >> yeah, i mean, it is always a good idea, when you have a complex legal situation like this, to have someone who is the sort of legal face of your legal team. and then beyond that public face, you have sort of a team of minions going about doing sort of ordinary lawyerly things. so, you know time will tell whether giuliani sort of settles into this public face role. i do think he sort of shot a little fast out of the cannon in the beginning. but we'll see. i mean, otherwise, he's shown that he has a lot of sophistication and experience with the media, and that may prove to be worthwhile. he obviously has experience as a federal prosecutor, so, that could be useful, too, especially if the subpoena that we're all speculating may come out eventually comes out of the southern district of new york, rather than special counsel mueller's office. >> on balance, up until this point, has he been helpful? >> ah, you know, i think there's

pluses and minuses, that's really sort of outside of my wheelhouse. i think as far as public spokespeople go, he's very aggressive, but that may be intentional. >> but in terms of lead lawyering, which is supposed to be his job here, that's another question. david, "the wall street journal" reports that the president was only able to get through two questions during this informal four-hour practice session. >> whoa. >> one of the reasons was because of national security interruptions, but also because of his loquaciousness. which gets to an issue here, i mean, do you think, are there signs they're taking this quite seriously? >> wow, two questions in four hours. how many questions did we have from mueller, something like 48? can you imagine, it could be a couple of weeks they'd do that. and i think -- i think in the end of the day, the president is going to have to answer questions under oath. how they get there, i do not know. whether it's going to be, you know, going to voluntarily do it, whether it's going to be a

subpoena, which is challenged by the white house and they lose in the supreme court, or whatever it is, ultimately, he's going to have to speak. in the meantime, i think rudy giuliani's made this a circus. rudy has many very good qualities. he was an excellent mayor of new york, as we all know. he can be -- he's a great combatant in some ways, but he's gotten very loquacious on this. everybody is speaking too much. he's turning it into a circus. and he's freelancing, which is the worst thing you can do in a serious complicated case. you need people, good judgment, who are thoughtful in this, because this is a game against a group of people led by mueller who are very smart, they're very serious, and they do not create circuses. they know how to roll over circuses. they close down circuses. >> berman? >> go ahead, jeffrey. >> there's a point to be made here that the loquaciousness that we're -- is actually helpful to the president. >> sure. >> not hurtful. because this is -- this is going to have a time limit. there is no question this

interview will be three hours, four hours, five hours, it will be some time limit. and if the president is just going to ramble for the whole time, that's to his advantage. and there will not be a judge there, if this is a grand jury type proceeding, so, you know, there's method to the madness, if the president just wants to say, as he can wont to, there was no collusion, no obstruction of justice, he says it 17 different ways and doesn't address the questions in front of him, that could very much work to his advantage. >> it's a filibuster and it is hard to tell the president of the united states to be quiet. >> absolutely. >> you do not know if a prosecutor would do that. david, go ahead. >> i just -- jeffrey's taught about this a lot, he knows more about this than i do, but i just cannot imagine that mueller is going to sit there and let him filibuster for four hours and walk away without having to answer any real questions. i mean, it defeats the whole purpose of it, and i think

mueller will have a perfect lly good case if he answers three questions in three, four hours. this is totally evasive. >> all right, guys, two nowhere. you're all going to be back after we take a break. ahead, the latest from hawaii where the lava is still flowing after an eruption on the big island. we're going to have a live update when "360" continues. d g? ♪ now fight both fast new tums chewy bites with gas relief all in one relief of heartburn and gas ♪ ♪ tum tum tum tums new tums chewy bites with gas relief

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rudy giuliani is saying that it is settled law that the president does not have to comply with a subpoena. now, it's an open legal question but it's certainly not settled law, is it? >> no, i don't think it's settled law. i do think there's a good argument to be made, however, that a president being served with a subpoena to testify in a pending criminal case probably has plenty of leverage to defy that subpoena and ultimately, i suspect either a subpoena will not be issued, or if it is, it will simply be used as leverage to work something out with the president to sit down and define the parameters of an interview. >> sure. >> and what those parameters would be, ultimately, who knows. but think about it, you know, you can't really enforce the subpoena against a sitting president of the united states, there's no court in the country that would ultimately hold the president in contempt and threaten to imprison him. there have been two olc opinions that say a president can't be indicted because of the disruption of the presidency, and i think the same argument would hold true with a subpoena.

>> but the subpoena -- >> in 1997, the supreme court said that bill clinton had to give a civil deposition in a civil case, the paula jones case, so civil cases are lower in priority, always, than grand jury subpoenas. i think this is a pretty easy legal issue, that he will be required to testify if -- >> this is not a civil case, though. >> exactly. >> this is a criminal grand jury. >> hang on, david. because in a normal universe, the issue here would actually also be political, that there -- no politician would want to sit and deal with the potential embarrassment of having the supreme court having to weigh in on this, but we may be in different times here. the president, this president, might be willing to deal with just that. >> well, that's true. i was there in 1974, working in the white house, when the supreme court ruled, and as i recall, it was unanimous.

president nixon had to answer a subpoena to turn over documents, and of course, those were the tapes that sank him. i cannot understand why you can have a subpoena that is enforceable against a president for documents and why then a subpoena against him to testify in person, why they're so different. it seems to me they're quite close together in their nature, and i would be interested in the response from jeffrey, especially. >> elizabeth, to you quickly, and then jeffrey. >> yeah, the rationale is, time consuming, but not time consuming in terms of taking the president personally away from the production of those documents, where as a subpoena for testifying does require extensive preparation, i know no good criminal defense attorney who wouldn't want a lot of hours with any client who was going to appear before a grand jury, to give testimony. so, the idea is that you really have to, if you're a court, sort of balance the need for the

information against the burden on the presidency, and subpoena to testify would take away the president from his duties for a good deal number of more hours than a subpoena for documents would be. so, there would have to be some showing that there is some need to get this information from the president and there's no other way to get that information. >> jeffrey? >> well, i just think that's -- i mean, yes, it's true there would have to be some showing, but if the supreme court said the president has to testify in a civil case, which is not nearly as important as a grand jury proceeding, as they did in the paula jones case, why wouldn't they say he had to testify in a grand jury proceeding? i just think it's an easy legal issue. >> jeff, let me move onto something else here, because rudy giuliani just spoke to politico, and he spoke about the idea that he should stop speaking on tv. he said, quote, if i'm not up to it, i don't know who is, he told

politico. he said, i know the justice department better than just about anyone. so, first of all, does that answer make sense to you? and second, jeffrey, you said earlier, you think the likely outcome is that they work out some kind of deal that rudy giuliani runs off, or walks off or rides off, into the sunset. is that something you're piecing together, or do you have any reporting on that? >> absolutely. i think that's right. this is an embarrassment. i mean, and, you know, to have the president, his client, saying, well, you know, this is sort of part of the rudy giuliani continuing education program, i mean, it's embarrassing, it's ridiculous. and donald trump knows when people are doing well on television and when they're not. and giuliani isn't. look, i think there is a simple solution for donald trump, that eliminates all these legal issues and legal complexities, and that's simply that he takes the fifth. you know, it will be a bad day, the people will play those tapes that you played earlier, berman, and it will be -- it would be

embarrassing, but donald trump has been in 40% in the polls since the day he was elected. he's not going to go down if he takes the fifth. and that just eliminates this whole controversy and ends the whole thing. >> david, quickly, on that political point, can he afford to take the fifth? >> it's good legal advice, it's terrible political advice. i just think it would be a disaster for him to take the fifth. >> professor? >> there will be no invocation of the fifth amendment. you have to realize that first of all there has to be a crime that's investigated. we don't even know what crime mueller would be investigating the president for -- >> obstruction of justice. >> obstruction of justice. >> well, i talked about obstruction many, many times, there's a reason why this is not obstruction of justice, there's no pending proceeding when he did fire james comey. the statutes require a pending proceeding. there was no pending proceeding before congress or the judicial

branch, and it's that sample, because the president has constitutional authority to fir the fbi director. >> let me say thank you one and all for joining us this evening, i appreciate the discussion. all right, first lady melania trump steps into the spotlight on her own to unveil her agenda to help america's children. stay with us. feel the clarity of non-drowsy claritin and relief from symptoms caused by over 200 allergens. like those from buddy. because stuffed animals are clearly no substitute for real ones. feel the clarity. and live claritin clear. ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun♪ ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun

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trump presidency, melania trump unveiled her first initiative as first lady called be best. >> my hope is that together, we can be best at helping children and families find effective ways to educate themselves and support each other. i'm asking you all to join me in providing support and guidance to our children so that we can make a real difference. how we raise and educate our children on a variety of topics will provide the blueprint for the next generation. together, let's encourage children to dream big, think big and do all they can to be best in everything that they do. >> the president joined the first lady on stage after her speech. the event comes a day after "the washington post" published a story about the couple titled inside melania trump's

complicated white house life. separate schedule, different priorities. joining me is now is mary jordan, one of the reporters sharing the by line on that story. also michael dantonio. you reported that the president and first lady lead very separate lives at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. what can you tell us? >> there's basically a de facto wall between the west wing and the east wing. we've talked to all kinds of people, and they just say that, you know, normally, there's a more give and take, they just have a very separate life. and why does it matter? i think because right now that the headlines are dominated by two women that said they had an affair with him. her support, if he runs again, as he said he would in 2020, is going to matter. and so, that's why people are looking at how the trumps are getting along. >> michael, a new poll out today shows the melania's poll numbers are on the rise, and far higher

than the president. we know the president pays close attention to the polls and mary's story, he particularly fixates in melania's numbers. what impact would her rising popularity have on the president? >> well, the president has a record in his past of actually being jealous of his wife, when she gets more attention. this was the case when he was married to ivana trump and i think it was the case when he was married to marla maples. he doesn't like to lose at anything to anyone, including his wife, and here we have a case where one person in the couple is the one that wives turn to their husbands and say if you ever do anything like that, i'll kill you, and the other person is regarded as dignified and kind and quite decent. so, i would expect that her numbers will continue to rise and it will be a problem for the president.

>> mary, regarding the first lady's initiative announce today, particularly the cyber-bullying part, you write that she'd been advised to champion another cause, any other cause, and yet, still she persisted with this one. >> well, clearly she has an independent streak, and it is noticeable that, as we see more of her, remember, she was pretty much silent for the entire first year. we just recently have seen her more in the last few weeks than we have the entire first year. and when she's raising her profile, she's almost always doing it by being the ant anti-trump. she is the least like all the trumps of the trumps, you know, he's a big extrovert. she likes small crowds. you know, she's talking about, today in the rose garden, about kindness and not being mean online and, of course, he's famous for his taunts and insults via twitter. it's a very interesting first couple and going to be more

interesting because she has promised that we're going to see more of melania trump in the coming months. >> it's a initiative that really anyone can get behind. michael, do you think this is a way for melania to send a message to the audience of one, i mean, the president was sitting right in the front row for the speech. >> boy, so many people have used their public appearances to address that audience of one, namely, the president, and i'm sure that the first lady was doing that in part. we shouldn't doubt that she has a sincere interest in the issues that she raised, the opioid crisis and cyber-bullying in particular. chef has she has a young son that has been thrust into the public stage, through no cause of his own, and he has to cope with being challenged as a young person, so, she must have empathy for kids, but she sure is sending a message to the president, that she's opposed to the kind of trolling and

bullying and harassing that he does online, and make no mistake about it, when you're the president and you're enfwajed online in a debate with someone, you're always the bully, you're not the victim, because you have the power, he's the most powerful person on earth. >> michael, mary, thank you so much for being with us. mary, thank you so much for your reporting. just ahead, it sounds like it's straight out of a spy novel, and a bad one. did a private intelligence firm called black cube try to target former obama administration officials? i'll speak to one of those possibly targeted. them. so we're committed to helping veterans through job training when their service ends... and to hiring 10,000 veterans and military spouses to be part of our workforce in the next 5 years. because no matter where you serve... or when you serve... t-mobile stands ready to serve you.

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president trump says he will reveal his decision on the iran nuclear deal tomorrow afternoon in an announcement. meantime, "the new yorker" is reporting tonight that an israeli intelligence firm called black cube has been working to undermine the iran nuclear deal by ptrying to governmenter information on two key obama administration officials who were key in fashioning the deal in the first place. the guardian and the observer said trump administration officials were behind accusations against the officials published mostly in the right wing sprepress. colin call was an adviser and involved in the iran nuclear

deal. he joins me now. so, colin, can you just walk us through exactly what happened? because from what i understand, you were a target of this operation through some kind of a company trying to get at you through your wife? >> yeah, it's very odd. let's back up just a bit. about a week ago, i was contacted by reporters from the observer and guardian, who said that in the course of their investigation into cambridge analytica, they came across information suggesting that trump aides had hired an israeli intel firm to dig up dirt on me and ben rhoads in an effort to discredit the iran deal and they asked, had you heard of this before, and i responded no, i had never heard about this before. and then a couple days later, the guardian story came out, and when my wife read the story, and the story alleges that this firm was hired last may, so, we're talking may of 2017, it triggered kind of a creepy memory that my wife had, which was that she had been approached by, supposedly a woman, a p

perso persona, from a company called ruben capital partners which claimed to be a firm that kind of made socially responsible investments. and my wife, who is mostly a stay at home mom, was volunteering at my daughter's elementary school, public charter school in washington, d.c., and the e-mail pitch was, you know, school is great, we'd love to talk to you about maybe making investments in your school. this all sounded weird, so, my wife reached out to some friends in the finance world, in the education world, nobody seemed to think this was on the level. so, my wife went back to this persona and tried to get them to talk to somebody else on, at the school, somebody else on the committee and they kept insisting they wanted to talk to my wife, at which point we concluded it might be some fishing scam, something, and we just discontinued that conversation. and that conversation went from may 26th, the first e-mail, through june 15th. so, in the same timeframe that

this happened. >> so, at this point, we should point out that black cube has denied involvement, and that no connection with the white house has been made, but, and this is a big but you say, again, the timing of comments made by trump officials tells you something. >> yeah, i mean, first thing, your -- the folks watching should know that the black cube denial is not really a denial. they said, they don't talk about who hires them. but they, you know, they weren't hired by the trump administration. what is weird, what kind of got my spider sense tingling, last spring, a number of trump aides started a public smear campaign to blame the entire, you know, what they thought was this deep state conspiracy on the ben rhoads colin call nexus, happened to coincide exactly at the same time that this black cube firm was hired, and coincidentally, also happened around the same time as the president's trip to saudi arabia and israel. >> you know, if you are, in fact, in the middle of this and

if you were a target, how does it feel to be in the center of this all? >> well, i athink in general, i feels creepy. when you're a government official, you expect intelligence entities to spy on you. when you're a former government official, it's much weirder. it also is, you know, especially creepy with a firm and even doubly so if they are coming at you through your family. let's keep in mind, for your viewers, that they came at me through my wife doing volunteer work at my 6-year-old daughter's public elementary school in washington, d.c. that's pretty scummy. and that may happen in the business world, it doesn't happen in my world. and if, look, i have no idea, i have no evidence that this has any relationship to the trump white house, you know, the guardian alleged that was the case, i have no idea if that is true, but if there is any connection, obviously, to the white house, then it takes on a particularly authoritarian cast

to it. >> do you suspect they were involved? >> i don't know. but i hope people ask -- i hope people ask them the question, because maybe it was just a coincidence that the exact same two people which seemed to be the kind of obsession of a handful of senior aides to the president at the very same time that this firm was hired to dig up dirt on those two people, maybe it's just a coincidence, but it's suspicious enough that i think people need to be asking questions. >> colin call, thank you so much for being with us. >> sure. >> so, breaking news tonight. new york governor andrew cuomo is calling for the resignation of new york attorney general eric schneiderman. this after four women accused the attorney general of violence against them. the accusations are breaking news tonight in "the new yorker." two of the women spoke on the record, saying that schneiderman had hit and choked them both, both sought medical attention because of the alleged abuse. in a statement on twitter,

schneiderman says he has engaged in what he calls role playing, but he claims that he has not assaulted anyone. she w schneiderman was a prominent opponent to president trump. again, new york governor andrew cuomo calling on schneiderman to resign tonight. up next, incredible video, molten lava pouring into neighborhoods and releasing dangerous fumes into the air. the latest on the volcanic eruption in hawaii, when "360" continues. the commute is worth it. you and that john deere tractor... you can keep dreaming up projects all the way home. it's a longer drive. but just like a john deere, it's worth it.

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on hawaii's big island, the danger is far from over from an erupting volcano. 35 structures including 26 homes destroyed. and authorities are pleading with people to please stay away from the danger zone. more now from cnn's stephanie elam.

>> reporter: rivers of smoldering lava threatening hawaii's big island. the red hot magma spewing up through fissures that emerged since the eruption of the kilauea volcano has ravaged roads and destroyed dozens of structures. watch this time lapse show the all-consuming flow of the lava as it slowly creeps across a road engulfing a parked car, leaving a smoky black trail in its wake. more lava spilling through neighborhoods, turning lush green island vegetation to walls of blackened rock. at least 1,700 people in leilani estates and lanipuna gardens have had to evacuate. tell me what it was like when you first saw lava coming out right by your house. >> it was bionic, really orange. the highest splatter i saw, personally, was about 60 feet tall. which is pretty big.

>> reporter: add to that potentially deadly volcanic gases. the eruptions have released high levels of sulfur dioxide into the air. and then there are the big island earthquakes. more than 1,300 in the last week, alone. from a helicopter, we can see where all of this began and the destruction is massive. to the south, the pu'u o'o vent of kilauea collapsed. >> all collapsed into one big hole. >> reporter: some residents in leilani estates have been allowed to return temporarily to check on their homes, but the threat and the uncertainty remain. >> just watching everybody come out of there with all their things and, it's sad, it's just so sad. >> stephanie elam joins us now from the big island. see the scene behind her.

stephanie, you've actually been close to this toxic sulfur dioxide gas coming out of the volcano. what's that like? >> reporter: john, there's nothing that prepares you for it. it takes your breath away. also the thundering, pounding sound of the lava erupting from the earth, along with that gas, you feel it in your chest. and as you heard, the man that we interviewed in the piece say, steve gebbie say, we it's coming out, the orange is so intense, it almost looks fake. nothing prepares your eyes for what you're seeing. and to know how hot that's burning and the danger that it poses for the people living in these communities, john. >> pictures are simply stunning. stephanie elam, please stay safe. thanks so much for being with us. up next, our latest on the breaking news from the white house, "the wall street journal" reporting the president's lawyers hope to decide within days if he should testify in the mueller investigation. according to "the wall street journal" a q&a practice session did not go as planned. the details when we continue.

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