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never know when and where he will pop up on their tv screens. tonight, politico was reporting the president is griping that giuliani has not shut down the stormy daniels scandal. politico spoke with giuliani just tonight, and he pushed back against the idea that the president is unhappy, saying, "if i'm not up to it, i don't know who is. i know the justice department better than just about anyone." meanwhile, the president's legal team reportedly wants to mark the one-year anniversary of the appointment of special counsel robert mueller with a big decision. whether the president will sit down with mueller and his team, with the anniversary a few days away, there are a few potential hiccups. in a recent practice session, they didn't get very far. this is all according to new reporting in the "the wall street journal." a short time ago i spoke with reporter peter nicholas. >> they ran some sample questions by president trump in the white house residence to see how he would do and made very little headway. they were there for about four

hours but they were repeatedly interrupted. national security advisers would come into the room, wanted to talk to the president about north korea or iran. the lawyers had to leave the room. they didn't need to be privy to that. then they would come back and try to resume the q&a. and they found that the president was kind of as i mentioned long winded in his answers and weren't able to cover very much ground, so it was not a successful experiment. >> on the table tonight, that interview deadline looms, or at least a deadline to make a decision about it. we'll take a look at the stakes and the pitfalls. also, did michael cohen make more payoffs to women on behalf of the president? the president's other lawyer suggests it's a possibility. and "be best," with two words, the first lady launches her platform and a lot of discuss. by begin with boris sanchez at the white house. what more are you learning about the white house and frustration with rudy giuliani? >> reporter: this may not shock

you, we're hearing mixed messages from the white house on this, for one, sources indicated to cnn that president trump is thrilled with rudy giuliani's performance, saying that he enjoys seeing his attorney be so aggressive in contrast to his legal team previously fully complying with the special counsel. further, we heard sarah sanders from the podium today saying the president values rudy giuliani as a member of his legal staff, though as you noted, sources are telling others news outlets at the president is unhappy with giuliani not making the stormy daniels saga go away. we've also heard from white house officials that suggested that giuliani is catching a lot of officials at the white house off guard with some of his statements. they were surprised by some of what he's saying. one white house official actually comparing his tenure to that of anthony scaramucci, someone who came in with a brash personality, was very vocal. that source telling cnn, quote, either he'll change his behavior or will not last.

we asked the white house for comment on this. they have yet to back to us. >> scaramucci tweeted he's flattered by that comparison, by the way. boris, has the white house responded yet to the idea of the possible may 17th decision to sit down with robert mueller, his investigators? >> reporter: not yet, john, but we suspect that if they do respond, they will repeat something that sarah sanders said from the podium today and refer us back to the source of those comments. rudy giuliani notably, i did want to point out something that giuliani told the "the wall street journal," he said, "every day we swing a little different." that, of course, on the question of whether the president should sit down one-on-one with robert mueller. we know where the president stands on this. he told reporters he's looking forward to testifying before the special counsel. giuliani over the weekend on a sunday morning talk show suggested the special counsel was laying a trap for the president saying that the president should not have to comply with the subpoena, if the special counsel submits one, and further, trying to suggest that the president may plead the fifth.

so it seems like there is a bit of a battle still going on between the president and his legal team. one source indicates that it is still a 50/50 decision, but they suggest that this is still a very fluid situation, and could go either direction, john. >> boris sanchez. to my panel. gloria borger, maria cardona, alice stewart, paris dennard, bakari sellers. i want to start with you. what's the latest you're hearing on the president's either satisfaction or lack thereof with rudy giuliani? >> as we know from history, any time somebody gets way out front and he's on tv a lot, remember steve bannon, he wasn't on tv, but he was way out front. people -- the president gets upset. i think what happened is that the legal team is upset. with rudy giuliani. because he seems to be freelancing. he is consulting with the president, so it's the president and rudy giuliani and the rest of the legal team. rest of the legal team is new.

you've got the raskins who are just starting out, you've got emmet flood who hasn't gotten his security clearance yet, hasn't even started yet. and you have rudy giuliani setting deadlines and saying, okay, we want this -- we want to make this decision by may 17th. so, what i've been told, what my colleagues at the white house have been told, is that, you know, this really is a goal and not so much a deadline. >> it's aspirational. >> let's call it aspirational. and so the legal team is kind of like herding cats right now, and the person in charge is the president of the united states whom as we all know loves chaos. so that's what he's got. >> it's hard to believe, the rudy giuliani interview with sean hannity was last wednesday night, not even a full week since that happened. it went the way it did and the next day it went even worse then he was on tv again this weekend, he was on the phone with politico and the "the wall street journal" all day today. how is it that this is still going on?

>> we still actually don't know what the story is, we don't know which of giuliani's statements and the white house statements stand as the official account of this episode. you know, all this time later. i want to say a couple things, one about getting too close to the sun in this white house. absolutely. bannon wasn't on tv so much, but had the book about him, he was on the cover of "time" magazine. >> right. >> we know from the famous scaramucci ten days that at first, trump really liked scaramucci, he liked, you know, all the stuff he was doing, liked when scaramucci was punching people in the news. >> like you. >> then the blow-back came and everyone said this guy's a bit of a joke, making you look bad and trump discarded him. i don't know if giuliani crossed the scaramucci line yet where he's become a complete liability and sort of a joke to the president but we've definitely seen some of those hints. i noted that jonathan swan of axios yesterday reported some white house aides were using the

mooch as an example as a reference for giuliani. so he has -- giuliani has to be careful. we now how this president sours on people. >> paris, you're a supporter of the president right now. it's a basic question. do you think he is being well served now by the public appearances of rudy giuliani? >> you know, there's two things that i think any supporter will look at. and i think this is the way the president looks at it. is the president pleased with the fact he has somebody that's aggressively defending him on president who's being combative and just going to the, you know, hitting the ball real strong and hard for him? yes. he likes that. and i think -- >> unquestionable, he does. >> i think that's a good thing. i think when you've seen avenatti out there day after day, night after night, 24/7 constantly combatting and going up against the president, we were wondering where is the defense? you have it. now, the problem we have is that giuliani is sort of being fast and loose on the facts, and the president has said -- and the president -- >> by his own admission which sort of blows my mind. >> true. he said that and the president said he needs to get caught up with the facts so the question

becomes when is he going to get all the facts straight? and when will the president get fed up with him being a distraction and earning him negative press rather than the positive press and the positive reactions that he wanted from giuliani in the first place? and i think for a lot of trump supporters, like myself, we are hoping that that is sooner rather than later because giuliani means well, but he can also run the other way and do more harm than good. >> i actually see it a little bit differently. i think that, yes, i agree that he loves people to go and defend him, but then it's the blow-back that he looks at. when you have somebody from fox news telling the president that he is responsible for his own swamp stink, then you know -- >> neil cavuto. >> if fox news is turning on you, that's kind of a tipping point. i'll say this about giuliani, i don't think the president or the white house is mad because they -- because giuliani didn't get his facts straight. i think they're mad because he actually told the truth.

he talked about how the president knew about the payment. that is what is getting him in trouble. he also wondered out loud, which the majority of the american people do, too, whether this retainer from michael cohen has been used to pay off other women. so, giuliani is out there talking about things that perhaps he shouldn't be talking about because they might be the truth. so actually as a democrat, i hope that giuliani is out there 24/7 talking about this. >> here's the thing, before you do any national media, you learn the facts. you're briefed on it, you go through war-room and they ask you the questions, you know exactly what you're going to say, you know the timeline. he didn't have that in his first interview with sean hannity and even after the president said he's going to get the facts, he still hasn't gotten them. but that being said -- >> or maybe he has. >> -- he is all over the place and we can have all of these white house people say that giuliani is off message, he's stealing the spotlight, he is creating havoc, he is doing harm. he clearly is getting the red light -- the green light from the president, the president is telling him to go out there

because he wants someone who's going to fight for him. the problem is giuliani can sit there all day long, you're the lawyer. you know, you can sit there and say we're going to do 2 1/2 hours, we want the hillary clinton treatment, we're going to do it on our timeline. it's not up to him to dictate a timeline of a mueller investigation. that's up to mueller. until this president recognizes he's on mueller's timeline, not any attorney, whether it's ty cobb or rudy giuliani, we're still going to be in the situation. >> bakari, what do you make on that note, of this may 17th deadline? >> rudy giuliani is not making any deadlines in this investigation. he's not going to all of a sudden come into this investigation and tell mueller what he's going to do when he's going to do it and how he's going to do it. you know, i don't really blame rudy giuliani or ty cobb or any of the other lawyers that have come through his radius. the president of the united states is a horrible client to have. just imagine someone that you cannot control at all. someone that you cannot advise. someone who just literally flies by the seat of their pants and

when you try to explain to them the gravity of the situation they're in, their narcissistic approach says they're too big to fall. that's what you have here. rudy giuliani is doing his best vinny gambini impersonation, what he looks like flailing around on tv. there are a few things. the president is unmanageable, uncontrollable, he's a liar. those three things make it very, very difficult for a lawyer to represent you because the first thing i tell my client, you can lie to everyone, you can lie to your boss, you can lie to your wife, but do not lie to your lawyer. because i do not want to be surprised. >> but i think rudy giuliani is supposed to be their spokesman right now. >> right. >> and maybe their negotiator. i know they're kind of looking for a spokesman, but it's hard to get one. and he's supposed to have a message. a clear message. and alice, you know about this, supposed to have a clear message, and if you want to discredit the special counsel, go ahead and do it. you want to discredit the fbi, go ahead and do it. that's what they want to do.

you want to, you know, discredit those democrats in congress. go ahead and do it. but instead, he's doing some of that, but instead, he's all over the place getting the president in hot water. >> is funneling money. more possible -- >> are there more women, you know -- >> i get the sense we have a lot more to talk about. all of you, stick around for a moment. we're going to continue the conversation. next with this burning question, could it possibly be that there are other hush money payments besides the one that we know about to stormy daniels? as we mentioned, rudy giuliani certainly left open that possibility. we're going to talk about that next. and later, as senator john mccain battles brain cancer, word tonight about which president he would like to speak at his funeral. and which will not be invited. 1234r50i6789

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we already know about the payment to adult film actress stormy daniels from the president's lawyer michael cohen right before the election to, admittedly, by his own account keep her quiet about the sexual encounter she says she had with the president, but were there other payments to other women? the president's lawyer, rudy giuliani, left open that possibility. >> and you said he -- this is a regular arrangement he had with michael cohen, did michael cohen make payments to other women for the president? >> i have no knowledge of that, but i would think if it was necessary, yes. he made payment for the president or he conducted business for the president which means he had legal fees. money's laid out, and expenditures.

>> so back now with the panel, ryan lizza, there is another possible answer to that question he could have given which would have been no. he chose not to give the answer, no, there. >> even if he says i have no knowledge, going a little further but saying it's possible -- >> right. >> -- i mean, does anyone really get the sense that he knows one way or the other? i don't think so. it doesn't seem like he's operating -- >> no, but he knows donald trump which is why he wanted to keep that option open. >> no, actually what we saw was rudy giuliani being a very good lawyer. he did not answer something he did not know the answer to. he said, i have no knowledge of that, he said, if necessary, yes, which is -- >> i raise the hypothetical -- >> kudos for being honest. >> can't criticize the guy for being honest. >> here's the problem -- >> as a lawyer, seems to be falling down on the job. >> supposedly hired, as gloria said, i agree, to be the spokesperson. as a spokesperson, he just failed media training 101, which is don't answer a question you don't want to answer and pivot. he had the perfect pivot. he said at the beginning, i have no knowledge of that.

he should have just left it there. he should have just shut his mouth and go to the next. can't help himself. >> had a similar answer out of the briefing today. there are four different types of responses when a question is asked. there's a direct answer, there is a not to my knowledge answer, to my understanding, and this is what i knew at the time. those were the four kind of answers we get out of this administration. that's what giuliani is saying, look, to the best of my understanding. look -- >> the two of you could sit giuliani down and media training -- >> he needs it desperately. >> if no other money was paid to other women, which i would hope that's the case, but i doubt it, he would have simply said no. >> bakari, answer how you want here, as an attorney, would you ask your client, would you say, mr. president, you're my client here, have you paid other women? >> yes. i mean, because you would want to know the answer to that because you're dealing with possible campaign violations, you're dealing with other things that you just want to know the answer to. i think that we're all confused as to the reason why rudy giuliani was hired.

is he your criminal attorney, one, or supposed to play impeachment politics, too? because the president when he is bastardizing mueller, talking about democrats -- going down this list of things, he's playing the game the right way. goes back to the clinton playbook. the problem is when rudy giuliani is your criminal attorney and sucks at it. he's not doing his client service by bringing up what ifs. we saw the list of 50 questions going to be asked by mueller. the question we all believe, i think we all think the answer to is yes, after watching rudy giuliani, does mueller have more questions? yes. >> of course he does. >> rudy giuliani is not the criminal attorney. i mean, we know that. the criminal attorney are the raskins. >> emmet flood. >> emmet flood. >> he's playing criminal attorney on tv. >> he is playing one on tv. >> that's the problem. and the danger in doing that, whether you're a criminal

attorney or you're a pr person, is you need to know the answer to the questions before you go out. >> i think bakari hit the nail on the head when he talked about the kind of client that rudy giuliani and all of this lawyers have, which is donald trump. somebody who is a liar, somebody who will not tell you the truth, even if you ask him the question straight out. to me, it's still baffling, gloria, you reported this, that before giuliani went out on the sean hannity, supposedly he and the president were on the same page. nobody else was, nobody else knew what they were talking about or what giuliani was going to say. supposedly, giuliani and trump had agreed that this is what giuliani was going to do. not only that, let's remember the president's tweets that absolutely underscored everything that giuliani said before he got the blow-back and before then he tried to walk back what i believe was essentially the truth. >> paris, i mean, there are two different things here in a way, which is the mueller investigation, which is what we all thought rudy giuliani was really being brought in for, and then there's really stormy daniels, what he's ended up

talking about an awful lot. i mean, he chose to walk down that path with sean hannity, which they walked hand in hand, sometimes awkwardly. >> yeah. i think -- i think there's a reason why emmet flood and raskins are the ones that are his actual criminal attorneys. they're going to be behind the scenes. i promise you -- i can't say that -- i would suspect that they know the answers to the questions that we've been asking. i think there's a reason why rudy giuliani does not know the answer to that. i don't believe he was ever brought on to know those answers and to be that person. he's not going to be negotiating and doing all the things in the courtroom. he is there to be the person in the media constantly defending the president. and the problem is when he takes the -- his responses are too long, makes them too long. the president has the same problem of talking in long stanzas for a long time. you have to keep it succinct. the problem with giuliani, he said, i have no knowledge of that. like you said, if he would have stopped there, that would have

been fine. moved on, if necessary, yes. that opened up a whole line of questioning he didn't have to have opened up. >> we'll give him the benefit of this -- this one been fit of the answer he answered correctly, he at times pivoted back to no campaign funds were used. if it was, it was paid back. that's still to be debated. however, if that's going to be his story -- >> that's a violation. >> i hope he'd stick with that. >> the big question out here, what is michael cohen's relationship really to the president vis-a-vis his business, vis-a-vis all of these llcs he's opened, et cetera, et cetera? and rudy giuliani seemed to be at one point throwing michael cohen under the bus. >> yes. >> i mean, we've run out of buses. there are so many people that have been thrown under them. but at one point, he was throwing him under the bus. now he can't answer certain questions. so all of this becomes murky and the question you have is is this all part of the same story now? >> right. can i ask you very quickly, this

idea of talking to robert mueller. there's the legal question here, there's also the political issue. it just seems this president may be in a different political situation than any other has in the past. every other president, bill clinton sat down with ken starr. they didn't want the political blow-back here. i'm not sure that president trump is concerned about the political blow-back. >> nixon and clinton cooperated at the end of the day because it was death not to. we seem to be operating in a different political time. even the idea of the president taking the fifth amendment has somehow been normalized. we use that word a lot. his supporters are being prepared for that possibility and frankly don't seem worked up about that possibility. one thing, rudy being -- if you ignore all the craziness, one thing he has tried to do is he has tried to -- hate to use this word again -- normalize michael cohen as a fixer. he's basically tried to come out and say this is just no big deal, yes, he paid off women, yes, he did this, the president gave him money, that's the way

it was. this is a celebrity who had a lot of issues. if he had a strategy going into this, that's the one message -- >> all right, guys, stick around. you guys are around for many more question. ahead, a new cnn poll shows melania trump is viewed more favorably than her husband. the first lady unveils her new initiative to help children. stick around.

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first lady melania trump stepped into the spotlight today on her own to unveil her agenda to help america's children. during a white house speech, she said the be best campaign will focus on fighting cyber bullying and the opioid crisis. this comes as a new cnn poll show 57% of americans have a favorable impression of the first lady. that's up ten points since january. and 16 points higher than the president's job approval rating. in our new poll, 41% support the work he is doing. back now with our panel. you know, gloria, when it comes to poll numbers, we know the president follows them very, very closely, will melania trump's rising popularity, is it tied in any way do you believe to the president? >> no. i believe, honestly, that it's tied to a few things. one is stormy daniels. i think that people believe that by saying nothing and by doing her job, and by continuing to sort of be out there and trolling the president in her

own little way, that she is to be respected for that and that she has behaved admirably. so in a way, it is tied to the president, to a degree, and his -- and the tabloid stories about him. and i think that, you know, i give her credit today for going out and doing whatever she did. people said you can't talk about cyber bullying because your husband is one. she said, you know what, doesn't matter to me, i'm going to -- i care about this stuff, and i'm going to -- and i'm going to do it and she did a fine job today and she is independent and i think people kind of admire that. particularly women. >> inversely proportional, her approval rating to the president. >> exactly. >> bakari, there is some irony the president was sitting in the front row. >> irony is dead. this administration killed it. if you think there is -- coming out and talking about cyber bullying when you can't go down the hall and control the biggest cyber bully we have in the united states, then that irony

is completely dead. and i actually think that this -- her approval rating is directly tied to the president, to be completely honest. i think there are a lot of people who have a sense of sympathy for the first lady. >> that's another thing. >> because let's take this away because i have a hard time judging and critiquing and talking about somebody's wife or somebody's mother, but people -- we remember that she was, you know, the co-birther in chief with donald trump. we remember she plagiarized michelle obama, right? so it's very hard to take that away from her when she's trying to roll out these new initiatives. i wished her the best of luck because actually young people in this country need role models. they need somebody to look up to. they need someone to help them prepare for a world i now say is flat due to our interconnectivity. i hope she's successful. i just can't separate the melania who was donald trump's wife from this "be best" melania. although i wish her the best of luck. >> i think another component of the "be best" initiative that is important that we mention, the social media, stopping cyber

bullying, promoting wellbeing for kids and the opioid crisis. this is a serious problem, it's something that needs to be addressed. i think her calling attention to this will help address this issue. but look, we all know that donald trump is a cheater. he cheated on her before. and he got elected, anyway. our cnn poll out today says 80% of people polled say they believe that he cheated. 70% say they believe michael cohen paid these people off. 60% say they believe he knew about it. >> it's a good segue because those are some of the biggest numbers in the poll. another number in the poll is, what the 57% of people right now think the country is moving in the right direction. >> yeah. that's a big number. maria cardona, that's a very good number for any administration if we're looking back the last 10, 15 years, yet the president's approval rating is at 41% in the poll. are these things divorced? people who believe the affair, look at president's approval but look at where people think the country is going. >> i kind of think it is divorce. everybody talks about how voters only care about the economy, how

voters only care about jobs and how they only care about their own pocketbooks. of course, to a big extent, that is true, but if they were wholeheartedly 100% true, then donald trump would be at 70% approval rating. he's still at record low levels. what that tells me, yes, people care about the economy and the 57% number talks about that, they're happy with the way things are going to go, but it also tells me they care about the character, they care about the type of person in the president of the united states is, they care about how their leader, the commander in chief, should display basic decency. and that this president does not. >> ryan? >> i want to add one point to the melania thing before we move on. that's an excellent point. one of the fascinating things about why melania's poll numbers have gone up. think about it, republicans have always loved melania. always gotten solid numbers with republicans. no different than donald trump's.

what boosting her poll numbers are democrats. >> absolutely. >> and soft independents. why is that? why do democrats suddenly rallying around melania? i think it's very interesting, they see her, people who hate donald trump like melania. they see her as a victim of this president who they despise. so it has to do with the stormy and the affairs that she was, you know, she's been maligned. they also see her almost as, like, trapped with this president that they have a very low opinion of and, you know, as a consequence, they have sympathy for her. it's a very interesting dynamic that's going on. >> paris, on this, or on the president's approval rating of 41%, which is not a good number, but the 57% think the country is moving in the right direction, you know, is the glass half empty or glass half full here? >> i think the glass is half full because, look -- >> for the president. >> for the president. i think at the end of the day i think the american people are responding about how they feel. i think they feel things are on the right track as we have 57%, look at what's happening in north korea.

they see what's happening with regards to tax cuts and the economy and unemployment rate going down. they think these are good things. back to mrs. trump, our first lady, traditionally, the first lady is more popular than the president. >> sure. >> normally has high approval ratings. >> and -- >> hillary went through bad times, though. we're going to get involved with politics. >> the more unpopular they become. >> what you see with mrs. trump is people are now saying who is she? they're getting to see more and more about who she is, what she cares about. every holiday, she's going to visit children, those are positive things. the american people are getting to see her more, they'll respond in kind. >> very quickly, i also think a reason why her numbers are going up is because people have seen the footage of her swatting away the president's hand. i'm not trying to make a joke. i think that's actually true because it goes to the fact that she in her own way is standing up for herself. >> all right, guys, stick around. everyone's going to be here. when we come back, senator john mccain battles brain cancer.

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as senator john mccain battles brain cancer, his staffers are reportedly sharing some of his thoughts on his funeral which will be at washington's national cathedral. according to "the new york times," one person the senator does not want in attendance is president trump. today, one of mccain's senate colleagues, republican orrin hatch, told cnn he thought that was ridiculous. back now with our panel, you know, gloria, this "times" piece is interesting, it's odd to have so many details being leaked about the funeral of someone who is alive right now and battling brain cancer, but it is out there. so what does it tell you, if it is true, that john mccain wants president obama, president george w. bush, two men, by the way, who beat him in elections, he wants them to speak, but not the current president. >> it's so john mccain. first of all. he doesn't like donald trump and he's not going to be a hypocrite and say, i want you at my funeral, number one. number two, he's been spending a

lot of time talking about civility, bipartisanship, getting things done. so what he did was he invited two people who beat him, as you point out. neither of whom he was particularly close to, but people he respects, and, you know, he fought a hard fight against barack obama, but his concession speech when obama won was one of the best speeches i've ever heard. and i think the fact that he invited a republican and a democrat to speak at his funeral is just quintessential john mccain. >> and he also, remember, during the heat of the campaign with obama when it was very tense, someone at one of his events spoke ill of the president -- of barack obama, he said no, no, no, we're not going to do that, we're going to be civil to each other. i think this is an example of how he wants to bring both sides together, talk about civility in washington. also he asked mike pence to attend for the president. good for him. i think honestly what president

trump said about john mccain, saying he's not a hero because he was captured is despicable. and i -- i don't blame john mccain for not wanting him to be there. >> paris? >> who am i to tell somebody who to invite and not to invite to your funeral? i'll say this, this is a tough one for me because i know senator mccain, the entire family. i worked for him, 2000, 2008. i've been to the home. i went to high school with the children. i know the mccain family very well. i'm a tremendous supporter and fan of president trump. i think senator mccain is making a mistake by saying he does not -- he's not inviting the sitting president of the united states to attend his funeral. i think that the bigger thing to do would say, despite the fact that you said all these things about me, everybody heard it, you still should come and sit at my funeral and hear all the great things that people say about me and celebrate me despite of what you may think about me politically. i think that would be -- but i will say, i understand why he's not doing it, not inviting him. i think the bigger moment -- >> i actually think -- >> the president of the united states isn't invited to

anybody's funeral? like, you know -- >> he's invited to mine. >> george h.w. -- listen, there are two things, "goin' up yonder" is what i want played at my funeral, and donald trump is not invited. donald trump has not risen up to the pedestal of the president of the united states. john mccain recognizes that and wants to rest in peace. he does not want to rest with someone, someone who acted a complete ass sitting out in the audience. he was disrespectful to him -- >> donald trump should apologize to john mccain. >> that's what should happen before john mccain leaves us. actually, i -- good for him, good for john mccain. he has the right to say how he wants his funeral, how he wants people to come and honor him. he doesn't think that trump being there will be a way to honor him. i completely agree. i think it was very telling also in the reporting that cnn did about joe biden's visit to john mccain. and what he said about how john

mccain is so worried about our country, about the image of our country, about the civil -- the lack of civility in our country and it all points back to donald trump. and interestingly enough, he also said he regrets not putting joe lieberman on his ticket, and by doing that, he's also saying he regrets putting sarah palin on the ticket and a lot of people believe that sarah palin was like the gateway drug to a donald trump. >> quickly, i always wanted to know, what would you have said as a democrat if john mccain had put joe lieberman on the ticket? >> oh, i probably would have hated him, but, you know, that's what politics are. i also think that -- you know, looking back at it, i actually think that it's a big thing for john mccain to say that he regrets having put sarah palin on there. >> i do, because, you know, he's never criticized her. >> ever. >> he has -- >> it's huge. >> he has said, he's told me, i -- you know, lieberman was my first choice, but he's never gone that second step. can i say one more thing about

the trump -- i think he may be doing it for his family, not inviting trump. because his wife and his daughter, in particular, were so offended by everything that donald trump said about john mccain. and perhaps when he was -- i'm just surmising this. i have no idea. when he was talking to his family about his funeral plans, and they said, maybe they said, you know what, that would be so hard for us. >> can i just say -- >> john mccain, i mean -- president trump is still out talking about john mccain in an unflattering way. brings up the health care vote. he was doing it just last week. i will say, ryan, it talks a lot about john mccain's role in our civil discourse that he can choose which presidents attend his funeral, which do not. >> i hate this story so much. it's just -- it makes -- >> morbid. >> -- so raw how -- >> divided. >> -- divided the country is right now that someone like mccain who will be when he passes will be one of the most celebrated united states

senators in history. and that one of his last wishes is that he didn't want the president of the united states at his funeral. and i cannot think of a historical example. maybe go back to the 19th century when things were particularly ugly, but you can't think of a modern example where a sitting united states senator in advance of his death is letting it be known that he doesn't want the president there. he has such a low opinion of this man. >> of his own party. >> such low morality and ethics. this is a military man. would have been his commander in chief if he were still in the military. he doesn't want him there. >> of history, himself -- >> i'm not criticizing mccain for a second over this. i think you're right about the family. he forgave the vietnamese who tortured him two years. he went to vietnam, befriended people who tried to kill him and he won't -- >> paris, very quickly. >> i hope that mrs. trump is invited to attend. i think that would be appropriate. i think she has exhibited much grace and class and would be appropriate to have her there. >> i hope this is a discussion that is moved for many months to

come. thank you all, very much, everyone, i appreciate it. coming up, we do have breaking news. another call for the resignation of the new york attorney general eric schneiderman after four women reportedly accuse him of violence. that's next. if your adventure keeps turning into unexpected bathroom trips you may have overactive bladder, or oab.

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we do have breaking news just in. new york attorney general eric schneiderman has resigned. this comes after four women accused him of violence. the accusations are in "the new yorker." that came out just a few hours ago. two of the women spoke on the record saying he'd hit and choked them. both sought medical attention because of this alleged abuse. two others asked to stay anonymous. schneiderman posted this on his website. he writes, "it's been my great honor and privilege to serve as attorney general for the people of the state of new york. in the last several hours serious allegations which i strongly contest have been made against me.

while these allegations are unrelated to my professional conduct or the operations of the office, they will effectively prevent me from leading the office's work at this critical time. i, therefore, resign my office effective at the close of business on may 8th, 2018." that happened very quickly after the story was published a few hours ago. as our chief washington correspondent and anchor of "the lead" and "state of the union," jake tapper gets his daily fill of real life political drama. now jake is turning his attention to historical fiction. he is the author of the new novel "the hellfire club." some parallels to today with claims of abuse of power, conspiracy theories. it takes place during the 1950s when the intimidating joe mccarthy was senator and carrying out his communist witch-hunt. anderson recently spoke to jake about the new book. >> jake, your book is set in the mccarthy era. it's easy to make comparisons, you know, from then to now. you actually started this before this administration was even

kind of a glimmer in anyone's eye, right? >> yeah, i just thought it was such an interesting era on the veneer, it's romantic, seems pleasant. the eisenhower years. you just scratch a little bit beneath the surface, there are literally communists infiltrating the government, the rise of mccarthyism, the atomic race, the country still segregated, it's still a very sexist society. so it looks pleasant, but it's really, there's this undertone of menace throughout the 1950s. all of that was cooking long before donald trump came down that escalator, but then once he became this candidate and, you know, they say history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. there's a lot of rhyming when you read about the 1950s and look at president trump and 2018. >> explain what the book is about, "a," it's fiction which i'm so impressed you were able to write, you bring amazing nonfiction books but i can't wrap my mind around the concept of trying to write a fiction book. >> it's about a young world war

ii hero, academic who becomes a congressman and his very strong, independent wife who is a zoologist. and they move to washington and get caught up in this conspiracy having to do with secret societies. in a larger sense, the book is about compromise and how far are people willing to go to compromise their principles in order to achieve an end, whether it's all the people i see who come down here to washington, d.c., to try to do good and end up selling little bits of their soul bit by bit until all of a sudden it's not clear why they're in washington other than for their own self-aggrandizement. and a larger scale, it's about what are you willing to do to protect the country? mccarthy was willing to lie and smear and attack people in the name of what he thought was defending the country. so, compromise, which is what this town, what washington, d.c., is about, that's the theme of it, but, you know, wrapped in what i hope people will think is a fun thriller. >> yeah. i mean, it's a political

thriller. it really is a, i hate the cliche, a page turner. it is. i read it. i really enjoyed it. how do you go about actually writing? not just how you find the time given your family and your work, but for writing fiction, do you map it all out? do you have an outline that you kind of do first? >> yeah. a friend of mine who's a really creative guy said there's two types of writers. there's gardeners and architects. gardeners let the flowers grow and see what happens. architects have to plan everything. i'm definitely more of an architect. in terms of the schedule, i have a very busy schedule as do you. i tried to have a rule that i would write at least 15 minutes a day. you know, if you write 15 minutes a day, by the end of the week you've written for an hour and 45 minutes. that's not nothing. >> it is a great read. i encourage people to get it. jake, thanks so much. >> thanks so much, anderson. all right. more news next. an update on the lava leaving a path of destruction in hawaii.

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♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun♪ ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun transitions™ light under control™ tonight on hawaii's big island molten lava pouring through neighborhoods. video here shows you the damage. can do as it destroys that car. stunning.

35 structures including 26 homes have been wiped away by the lava flow from an eruption that started last thursday. the other dangerous toxic fumes and earthquakes, the officials are warning people to stay away from the danger zone for their own safety. that's all for me tonight. i'm john berman. time now to hand it over to don lemon. "cnn tonight" starts now. this is cnn breaking news. >> this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. we do have breaking news to tell you about. four women accusing new york's attorney general of physical violence, according to the "new yorker" magazine. moments ago, eric schneiderman resigned under pressure from the governor and other prominent democrats. he has cast himself as a prominent opponent to president trump and a defender of the me too movement. this has been a fast-moving story, and we will bring you all the latest on the stunning developments in just moments. and also tonight, the white house insisting that president trump's