as they await. >> reporter: oh, yeah, meghan and her mum staying about 20 minutes away. they will drive here together tomorrow morning in one of the queen's limousines. >> of course, so many around the world will be watching, with all of the challenges in the world, it's nice to have a wedding for people to join in caring about. don't miss our coverage of the royal wedding. it begins tomorrow morning at 4:00 a.m. eastern. thanks for joining us. anderson's next. welcome. there is nothing good about this evening, but there is much to report. ten people have been killed at a texas high school and ten others wounded. chris? >> reporter: all right, anderson, thank you very much. we're just about a mile from the school. it's down this road behind us. the reason we're so far away is it's still a pretty active scene. as you probably have heard at this point, the authorities found explosive devices. it's one of the real distinguishing characteristics about this particular tragedy and school shooting. they found pipe bombs and

perhaps pressure cooker explosive devices at the scene and in the surrounding area. so the perimeter here is a little bit pushed farther back than we're used to. we do know that the suspected killer has already been charged with capital murder, and he will face arraignment, he did not put in a plea. we're told he's being held in solitary confinement. and there is consideration of bond, but highly unlikely in a situation like this. we do not know as much as we usually do at this point, because of the injected uncertainty here. these explosive devices. the police are still really busy. the wounded are being cared for. ten people's lives were stolen here, just as many were injured. they were sent out to different hospitals, different types of injuries, as we're leaker more about what happened. and there you have a pistol that was used, a shotgun that was used, and there may have been an explosive device at play as well in terms of injuring people. tonight, we're going to see here

what we've gotten all-too-familiar with. there will be a vigil tonight that is held, to get this community together, to tap into their interconnectedness and their strength, and to deal with this, anderson. they just started the vigil. it goes into the night. we know how this place out, unfortunately, with painful frequency, more than one a week we're averaging this weekend, anderson. another community here surrounding santa fe high school. we are going to talk to somebody who survived the shooting. they have a lot to tell us that we haven't heard yet. >> chris, i know you'll be talking to people throughout the next two hours, we appreciate that, including some of the students who survived. as you said, as always on this program, it will be their stories to tell. theirs and the lives of those who did not name it. the name of the alleged killer will not be said or his face be shown. the only thing he deserves is justice. his victims deserve far better. today, the president spoke out. here's some of what he said. >> this has been going on too long in our country. too many years, too many decades

now. we grieve for the terrible loss of life and send our support and love to everyone affected by this absolutely horrific attack. to the student's family, teachers, and personnel at santa fe high, we're with you in this tragic hour and we will be with you forever. >> well, the president earlier today. now, this is the country's 22nd school shooting of the year. more now from cnn's rosa flores. >> we have several more shots. >> reporter: police say a majority of the dead and wounded at santa fe high school in texas are students. the alleged shooter, a 17-year-old classmate, now booked on capital murder charges and talking to police. >> the shooter has information contained in journals on his computer and cell phone that he said that not only did he want to commit the shooting, but he wanted to commit suicide after the shooting. as you probably know, he gave

himself up. >> reporter: texas governor greg abbott says at least one student has been detained as a person of interest. >> he's actually shooting. he's in the art room. we've got shots fired right now, guys. we need all of you. >> reporter: gunshots rang out just after 7:30 this morning. >> the weapons used in this attack, there are two weapons. one was a shotgun and the other is a .38 revolver. neither of these weapons were owned or legally possessed by the shooter. it's my information that both of these weapons were obtained by the shooter from his father. >> reporter: explosive devices, including pipe bombs, were also discovered on and around campus. >> one was a co2 device. another was a molotov cocktail. and there are various other types of explosive devices that have been identified, both in a

home as well as in a vehicle. >> reporter: officials say they now have search warrants for a vehicle and two residences connected to the suspect. students who escaped the shooting described the scene. >> we went to go drop the backdoor and they rerouted us out the front door. and when they re-routed us out the front door win went to press the handle and did see blood on the handle. >> reporter: parents rushed to the scene, as their children called from inside. >> i kept telling her to listen to her teacher, be quiet, stay down, stay on the phone with me. just really scary. really, really scary. >> reporter: lori williams' sn,, a junior, safe now after telling her just how close he was to the killer. >> he was in the classroom where the shooter was, according to him. there were students down in the classroom. and when they were coming out, there were two more students down right outside the back door of the school. >> and rosa florist joins us now. i know, rosa, you've been on the ground. you were at the high school all day today. what have been you been hearing?

what are you learning? >> reporter: anderson, they've kept us about half a mile away from the school. we haven't even really been able to get close to the school, to get our eyes on it, to figure out if we see any shell casings or what the actual school looks like. what we have seen is just about every imagineable local, state, and federal agency in marked and unmarked vehicles going in and out. the road is completely closed. the other thing that we can learn here is from what we haven't heard. and what i mean by that is, anderson, in that piece, and you've been talking about this, how authorities say that they have found explosive devices. we are close to the school. we have not heard any detonations, any controlled detonations, so it's unclear exactly what they are in the process of processing the scene and also removing those explosives. >> all right, rosa flores, thanks very much. we'll, of course, continue to monitor any late developments in the investigation as they come

to light. in the meantime, sadly, and as always, we're primarily hearing from young people, talking about what ought to be unspeakable things for anyone to experience. >> i heard three gunshots and then after that, the teachers didn't say nothing, and then we heard more gunshots and i seen someone running from like across the field where we were at before the school. and then we -- the teacher just screamed at us to run and take off. we took off through the back. i ran through someone's yard and jumped someone's fence and took two people with me. and after that, we grouped up at the chevron. >> it's been happening everywhere. i always kind of felt eventually it was going to happen here too, so -- i don't know. i wasn't surprised. i was just scared. >> yeah, what was going through your head in those moments? >> well, i really just wanted to leave, but i thought it better to stay and just hide for -- and hide with everybody else. >> i was scared for my life. nobody should go through this. nobody should be able to feel that in school. this is a place where we're

supposed to feel safe. this is somewhere we come most of the week. nobody should have to go through this. and nobody should feel that pain. it hurts my heart to see this. >> nobody should have to go through this. i want to go back now to chris cuomo in santa fe. chris? >> reporter: all right. it is hard to hear these voices, but we have to, anderson. up with of the biggest mistakes we can make in these situations is to become numb. i know there are so many people who are saying, oh, no, not another one. every one counts. and it's because of people like the young man you're about to meet right now. survivor damon raybond. damon, thank you. i know this is not a day where you wanted to just keep going and keep talking about this, i understand. 18 years old. a senior, you've got your whole life in front of you. it almost ended this morning. you say school started about 7:00 in the morning. what happened not long after that? >> well, at 7:00, routine day. everyone heard the tardy bell,

sw so we knew -- just a routine day. we were doing our review, and probably about -- >> it's all right. let it go. >> probably, i would say around 7:20ish to 7:30ish. >> train going by normal life. it's nice to hear it, right. >> life in santa fe. >> all right. so the train's going by. at least this is something familiar. life as as you know it here. obviously, everything this morning totally different. keep your voice up and tell us, you're sitting in class, going through a review. what do you hear? >> we hear a loud, battling noise, at first it was just one. we thought maybe someone was banging on the shop door or something fell. we were like, you know, just something happened. and my teacher, mr. west, actually walked outside the room and i followed him and you know, i'm a curious student, trying to see what was going on. and he turned the corner and we

heard about three more like banging, rattling noises, like i said, gunshots, rattling off all throughout the school and you can't tell exactly what it is at the time. we heard that and he was walking down the hall and the shooter came out of the art hallway, like, a backpack to his left, the art hall, we're on the right, and he walked out of the art room, dragging this backpack on the left and turned around and went back into the classroom. at this point, we knew like, this is the real -- like, it's really happening to us. like, we, with honestly were in complete shock. so the teacher came back and got everyone in the classroom. he told everyone like, this is the real deal. i'm not going to lie. it was complete chaos for a good minute and a half or so until we finally got the whits about everyone. we started barricading the doors and telling everyone to calm down, calm down, be quiet, be quiet. >> so you were one classroom away? >> yes, we were hearing the gunshots going you have.

>> you have to be thinking the obvious, she's cohe's coming th. >> as he was shooting the gun, probably shot 16, 17 times, and as he started progressing shooting, you can hear him progressively getting closer. and it's no feeling at all any student especially here in this great country should ever have to go through. the feeling, we're next. our life is about to end right now in this high school, like, we are about to die. and everyone was just crying, in complete tears, just in utter belief. i'm still at a loss for words. my heart truly goes out for the families and the loved ones that honestly lost someone today. and to every teacher, not just the teacher, the school cops that responded the in the manner that they should have responded in. and took the situation under control. >> you started to hear the police response, also. you started to hear what sounded to you like competing gunshots zp.

>> yes, sir. at first, you could hear the obvious shotgun, boom, boom, boom, probably five times. and then you hear, pop, pop, pop, pop. pop, pop, pop, pop, all kinds of shots, handgun shots, from the cops and to the shooter, shooter back. from our point of view, we were like, someone's shooting back, we may be all right. but at the same time, it's right outside of our door. and we were -- it was complete, utter disbelief. >> so you say you heard something else. as we were saying earlier, authorities are really busy here. they've been finding explosives, there were pipe bombs, pressure cooker on the scene. they found some in the surrounding area. there's a nearby trailer where they think it may have been assembled. so they've been trying to deal with what's still kind of an active situation. you think you heard something that wasn't a gunshot. >> yes, sir, it's definitely not like the rattling gun-type noise. more like a deeper boom. almost like door getting kicked in, but the door was right next

to us, so we were like, hopefully that's the cops kicking in doors trying to get situations under control. but now come to find out, we think it was an improvised explosive devices. >> you think it was one of the ieds. what did you hear afterwards, your mom said, she thinks someone was hurt by shrapnel, not a gunshot wound. >> yeah, i spoke to two students earlier, we were the last class cleared, we were the very last class cleared. and when we were cleared, the other students that were hurt, but not badly injured, that were actually in the art class were telling us what happened. and i remember the look on this one guy's face, just complete -- he was blown away. like, he was trying to tell us what happened. and he was like, looking around, and i say one of my friends drop and another one of my friends drop. and he flew -- he described it as a cylindrical canister device and put his hand up and he has

cuts and stuff all over his hand and his jeans are ripped and stuff, so would definitely leave me to believe that. >> you made it through. >> yes, sir. >> 1,400 kids in that school. >> yes, sir. >> he stole ten lives. >> yes, sir. >> a dozen more were hurt. you'll take some solace in hearing it could have been much worse. you guys could have been next. but where's your head and heart coming out of something like this? >> my heart is honestly thanking the lord above that we're here. there could have been so many more kids. so many more. you have a school of 1,400 students. and it's just unspeakable, the fact that someone can even get inside of a school with that type of guns and explosives and all types -- i mart truly is out for the victims and the ones that truly lost something today. i just cannot believe -- no mother, no parent should ever have to go through that type of pain of burying their own daughters and sons. it's just, it's unspeakable. >> the nightmare that so many people are living.

is it true, damon, that you have a school resource officer? >> yes, sir. >> that has a weapon on him? >> yes, sir. we have two of them. and they responded very quickly. you could hear, it was probably dish mean, for us, it felt like an eternieternity, but it was almost -- >> they were there. >> yes, sir. i'm thanking my life right now that they were there. because you could definitely tell with the gunshots that it wasn't just one shooter shooting, they were shooting at each other. and -- yes, sir. >> well, there's no question that people were putting up a fight to get rid of this guy as soon as possible. he's now in custody. as anderson said, we'll leave him to justice. the stories to tell are yours and those who aren't as lucky as you. young man, thank you for talking to me about this. i know this is the hardest day you've had so far, hopefully it is the hardest day you ever have. >> yes, sir. >> and i thank you and your mother for bringing you over here. you be well. >> yes, sir. you too. >> damon rab oon, one of the people who made it through.

anderson, as he said, 1,400 kids. graduation is just next week. and we'll have preparation for it tomorrow. and then this happens and now no one's life in this community or in that school will ever be the same. >> yeah, that's for. still a lot to learn. i appreciate it. coming up, we don't yet know the whys of what happened here in texas, but we do know at least a little about who, cnn's senior investigative correspondent drew griffin is next with what we know about the alleged shooter. and later, the latest talking point from the president and his allies who claim an informant was planted inside the trump campaign to collect information. been trying to prepare for this day... and i'm still not ready. the reason i'm telling you this is that there will be moments in your life that... you'll never be ready for. your little girl getting married being one of them.

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for that, here's cnn investigative correspondent, drew griffin. drew, what are you learning so far? >> surprisingly, very little about the warning signs we usually get in these kind of cases. we can tell you tonight, just a little while ago, he was brought into court, charged with capital murder, and aggravated assault on a public servant. he was not asked to enter a plea and bail has been denied. i can tell you, he's 17 years old. he is a junior. he obviously planned this, according to the governor. he kept a journal. and in that journal, we are told, he said he was going to kill himself after this attack and later told police he didn't have the courage to do it. those were his words. he didn't have the courage to kill himself. authorities from the governor on down say at this moment, they can find no flags, no warning signs. somewhat frustrating for them, as they do this. and i know we're not showing his picture, but i can tell you, on his facebook, his picture looks like an average teenager.

he was on the freshman football team a few years back. he was an honor student in middle school. the students that we talked to that knew him, not friends, but knew him said he was very quiet, often wore a trench coat to school, was wearing a trench coat today to school on a 90-degree day and that is what allowed him to hide that shotgun underneath his trench coat. that's according to the lieutenant governor of texas. anderson? >> i know you've also been combing through his social media postings. >> yeah, and there is not much to that, but for two interesting posts he made on april 30th. this was just less than a few weeks ago. we can show you those, i think. one is a t-shirt. a black t-shirt with the words "born to kill" on it. the other someone another piece of wardrobe. it is this duster type jacket, which has nazi symbolism on it. also, some fascist-type symbols and some religious symbols.

not much else. we've tried to reach many of his facebook friends and family. we haven't gotten anybody to talk. certainly, nobody who could come on and explain what was going on in this kid's life or what could possibly explain what took place today. anderson? >> yeah. drew griffin, appreciate it. let's go back to chris cuomo in texas. so many questions, obviously, chris. and a lot of times, i mean, it's impossible to get in somebody's head. >> reporter: it's true. look, motive is only relevant to help us understand how to stop this the next time. what can be identified. as you've laid out perfectly with the audience, it's not about this morbid fascination with what makes someone kill. it's understanding if there were warning signs. we're get information about what makes this case different. let's get to some experts. we have two law enforcement veterans who are with us right now. we have -- and unfortunately, this team has been together too much. we've got retired fbi supervisory special agent jim

gagliano and we have charles ramsey. you'll remember him, the police chief in washington, d.c. we also have him as the police commissioner in philadelphia, okay? so you remember charles ramsey from these situations. charles ramsey, it's good to have you. jim, once again, we're standing side by side, trying to make sense of a situation that makes no sense. there are some different features this time, most notably, what we see with weapons, access to weapons, and then the explosives. is that how you size it up? >> sure. the case has some parallels, obviously to columbine, which happened 19 years ago last month. we understand there might have been a pressure cooker device as well as part-tiipe bomb, which used in 1999. the second part of this was weaponry. we can look at things like universal background checks, raising the age. >> doesn't matter here. >> he was a 17-year-old kid who got access to his father's

weapon. two home defense weapons, a shotgun and a .38 revolver. listening to the of witness you were talking to earlier, senator john cornyn said that the barrel was shortened. a standard shotgun barrel is anywhere between 18, 20, 22 inches long. you're not allowed to have one with less than an 18-inch barrel or 2 in6 inches in total length. the maximum rounds may have been four, five, six rounds. he would have had to reload. we don't know if this was buckshot or bird shot or a deadly shrug round. and the five or six rounds he would have had with the .38. enough damage in that time before the police were able to interdict him to kill ten people, unfortunately. >> school of 1,400. imagine if he had something that would have allowed him to be more productive. now, there's this other aspect. charles ramsey, let me bring you in.

daymond rabond, i heard something else and i was told by kids in the room where he went in, they say he threw a cylindrical device that exploded and hurt some people. now, we haven't gotten official word about this, chief, in terms of whether any of these i erked went off. but it sounds like, unless this kid is a telling a story, but he said he saw injuries that looked like shrapnel, that changes the analysis. >> it does. and we do know that he did have ieds of some kind. so it's very possible that he could have set one off as he was firing his weapon or shortly after he fired his weapon. it's certainly within the realm of possibility. more information will come out as time goes upon right now there's still information that perhaps the police are not putting out. but as time goes on, we'll learn more and more about what actually took place inside the school. >> so, look, usually, in the

analysis here, we're talking about what kind of weapon, how he got the weapon, and what tells us about access. i don't see those as particularly relevant right now, as the facts lay out. but there is something that continues to be relevant. how do you make the schools safer? that seems to have been a factor here. this kid was able walk in. he knew the school, obviously, because he was a student. and he was able to do what he wanted to do. it does seem to once again raise this issue, and we heard it echoed by the governor, one of the u.s. senators here, ted cruz, governor abbott, ted cruz, the local representative, they all said, we have to do better to make our schools safer. what would make a difference? they had two resource officers with weapons that engaged. >> they cannot allow schools to be presumed soft target. single-point entry, but they had that in parkland. you've got to come in one ingress and egress point. students will always take the path of least resistance, hold

the door open. >> and you have code concerns. what about if at last fire or a natural catastrophe, you've got to have more than one way in and out. >> and it goes the same way about locking students into classroom. if you're able to lock yourself into a classroom, what if the bad guy is in that classroom and can lock and prevent the good guys from getting in. >> that's a god forbid. last point, access to the weapons. these are the father's weapons, let's assume, obtained legally by him. how you keep your weapons safe is an issue that often doesn't get much attention. there's a reason for that. one, there are really low-grade raws. here in texas, it's an "e" misdemeanor. a fine up to maybe a year in jail. but that's not going to change anybody's behavior. but do you think this case, because ordinarily, they don't prosecute, because the people who own the weapons already suffered so much, usually their kid is gone. or their kid killed one of their own children, statistically, so they've already suffered.

do you think we may see investigation on whether or not these guns were properly secured? >> well, it's a possibility, but, i mean, it goes to the issue of just responsible gun ownership. not necessarily whether or not it's a violation of a law or not. but if you've got weapons, you need to be able to secure them, so they don't fall into the hands of your children or anyone else who should not have possession of that firearm. and so we all have a collective responsibility to see to it that if we do own weapons, that we properly secure the weapons. you know, i've heard a lot about, you know, there are no red flags or whatever. who knows what family may know. obviously, there's been a change in the behavior, others, we wouldn't be having this conversation now. so obviously, we have to dig a little deeper to find out more about this kid and exactly what was going on and what led him to this particular incident. >> chief, thank you very much. james, you're going to stay with me. i appreciate it. anderson, one of the reasons

we're raising this is that james recognized in the research that there are approximately 1.4 million households in this country with over 2 million weapons, where they are not kept in safe storage and they are often kept near or fully armed. so it is an issue. and there's a debate there as well. >> yeah, there certainly is. chris, appreciate it. just ahead, we're going to hear from an emergency room nurse who was among the first to tree the wounded. we'll be right back. ( ♪ ) it's the details that make the difference. only botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet and forehead lines look better. it's a quick 10 minute treatment given by a doctor to reduce those lines.

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amid the death and mayhem, the remarkable story of a teenager who survived what could have been a fatal bullet wound. he was graczed by a bullet, not only survived, but was back home on his parent's porch tube o ta about it. >> it went into the back of my head, kind of in the middle of the back of my head and came out right here. >> what did doctors tell you about that injury? >> they told me, this is the perfect scenario for getting hit in the head and that if it would have done anything else than what it did, that i could be paralyzed. feel lucky to be here and just wish this didn't happen. it shouldn't happen to anybody in that school. nobody deserves that.

>> incredible. right now i'm joined by lana hall, an emergency room nurse who was one of the first to treat those injured today. i understand eight people came through your emergency room doors after the shooting. >> shortly after we started our day. we were going through our normal routine of routing our patients, stocking the rooms, getting them prepped for a normal day e.r. we got a people that people were responding to the scene of an active shooter. didn't actually get what was coming in at that point, but knew we needed to be prepared. spoke with our leaders and the doctor that was on, dr. noyua. at that time, he was -- he was there and kind of prompted the trauma team. he got all the trauma people involved. we started contacting blood

banks and contacted a nursing home for all the e.r. staff that was there. kind of went into a plan "b" mass casualty mode and assigned people to trauma teams, trauma rooms. had everybody's role lined up prior to people arriving. we got the first wave of patients. three incoming, all gunshot wounds, one potentially really serious. the other ones still had the potential, but we didn't know exactly what time of gun or anything at this point. and when they arrived, the trauma surgeon, dr. welsh and i kind of assessed the people as they were coming through the ambulance bay and delegated where they needed to go, what team needed to see them, which one was most appropriate and let the teams take it from there. first wave went through, our people stabilized them, downgraded them to other rooms, to the back of the nurse's station to kind of declutter and were ready to roll with the next wave that came in.

>> lonna, how are the patients doing tonight? >> well, i'm pleased to say that everybody that came through here is doing well at this time. we have one that's still a little critical, but she was able to come out of surgery, so we're happy for that. >> that's great. >> we were able to discharge six of the eight that came in within about an hour or two, from their arrival. >> and dr. mudane, your hospital is a level two trauma center. did you ever imagine that you would have thoono handle someth like this, with this amount of people? >> absolutely. i mean, we never want to have another school shooting, but a level two trauma centers are well equipped, just as equipped as level ones to handle mass casualties and pretty much any trauma that comes through. so we were prepared. we've been preparing for something like this for quite a while. we had a drill last week. and the incredible staff at clear lake regional of nurses,

the techs, lab, radiology were all part of those drills every time. the incredible providers with vision health care were part of those drills. and unfortunately today, we had to do it, but everything ran as planned. >> and lonna, how are you and your colleagues holding up after everything today. it's one thing to do this drill and thankfully you did do these drills, but to actually see those folks and to see these kids. >> my colleagues today were impressive. they were the most professional calm in the state of chaos that was brought in. it could have been potentially a lot worse, thankfully it wasn't, that came to us, but they were amazing. held their exposucomposure, tre everybody with empathy, got everyone in and out, stabilized quickly. they're just amazing. the team that i work with is incredible. >> well, we appreciate all the

work you've done. lonna hall, thank you. dr. safi madain, thank you as well. hard not to remember that horrible day in 1999 when the columbine national shooting became a tragedy played out on national television. up next, i'll speak with "columbine" author david cullen about these scenes we see repeated far too often. ♪ ♪ (baby crying) ♪ ♪ don't juggle your home life and work life without it. ♪ ♪ and don't forget who you're really working for without it. ♪ ♪ funding to help grow your business... ♪ ♪ another way we have your back.

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just gotten the first two names of the ten fallen. cynthia tisdale. she was a substitute teacher. and sebeka sheik was an exchange scho student from pakistan. it's been 19 years since the massacre at columbine high school and that shooting taught many lessons to many groups, to schools, to law enforcement, and to the media.

a lot of what was reported in the early aftermath of columbine was frankly wrong. with that in mind, we want to be careful in drawing too many parallels to today's shooting. but it seems there are some. journalist and author dave cull cullen wrote what was really the definitive book on columbine. it's called "columbine." he joins me now. da dave, i talk to you in the wake of each of these shootings and often, too often, i've got to say. do you see parallels to columbine? or what do you think has been learned since columbine? certainly from a law enforcement standpoint, a lot has been learned. >> a ton has been learned. in fact, i was kind of shocked today to see the governor announce a journal. and i thought, we don't normally find that out the first day. the more i thought about it, the lead fbi agent who ran the whole investigation for the fbi didn't find out about eric harris' journal until friday, three days later, and dylan's much later. and he found out about i when an

atf agent kept being like, you know, oh, my god -- like, what have you got there? they didn't even know to look for things like that. they brought everything from the killer's room and didn't go through it. today, 19 years later, obviously, by 3:00 in the afternoon, they had searched the room, knew what they were looking for, had identified this journal, had read it, then they summarized it, gave that summary to the governor and he went on national television and announced the summary. that whole process has changed. killers usually explain themselves in this stuff. he's going to tell us why he did it. go find it immediately. >> that is the case. there usually is some sort of journal or some sort of explanation where the killer tries to explain themselves or at least kind of vents what's going on in their head? >> almost always. the las vegas shooter is the huge anomaly, although i keep cautioning people that at this point, this far out from las vegas, we still don't know after columbine about the basement, the tapes that the two kirllers

left. they may have something from las vegas that we haven't heard yet. but if that turns out to be true, that's an incredible anomaly where the person did not explain themselves. it's almost 100%. >> you know, i remember, obviously, in the wake of columbine, too, there was a lot of talk about sort of the trench coat, obviously, there's images from this person's social media postings of a trench coat, he reports that he wore a trench coat today. some of that stuff about, you know, that the profile of the two kirllers in columbine and i try not to use their names, but a lot of that early reporting, it was kind of an echo chamber. it was not accurate. it was some kid said, described the killers in one way, and through really, it was in your reporting over the years that a truer picture of them emerged. skb >> yeah, you totally named it

right there, that's exactly what happened. and some of the echoes start from preconceived notions. most people in the country still think there is a profile, which is incorrect, that most of these shooters are loners and outcast and bullied and so forth. most are bullied, but most of the rest isn't true. so a lot of the kids who don't actually know the kids say that to a reporter. we're starting out from a problematic case. i always caution people, consider if you were a really close friend of a mass murderer, where would you be today? you would be hiding away in your house, not talking to anybody. in almost all cases, the people we want to hear from most, we're not going to hear from for a couple of days. they may be talking to the cops today. we don't know. we may be getting mostly acquaintances, people who knew him in third grade, maybe a couple of people who actually knew him. but we're getting a mixture. some probably is good information we're getting and a lot of bad mixed in. take everything today and for the next couple of days with a

huge boulder of salt. >> and finally, in terms of law enforcement tactics, those have changed completely since columbine? >> yeah, they surrounded the school, perimeter, not letting anybody out. everything has changed. the active shooter protocol now, the first police officers are supposed to go in immediately. in fact, that is so engrained there's a huge controversy at parkland that that didn't happen. so complete change. i made the point, the school system changed dramatically, the cops changed dramatically. the only thing that hasn't changed is the legislature of trying to do anything. our representatives who are supposed to be for us, they have done nothing after this. and that's what's kind of astonishing 19 years later. they're part of the world that's still stuck in 1999. >> dave cullen wit, the book is "columbine." sorry it's always under these circumstances that we talk. i want to quickly go back to chris cuomo in santa fe. >> you guys are making all the right points. look, this current tragedy is a

little bit different, right? because this murderer's access to weapons isn't as questionable. the types of weapons aren't the ones that raise concerns necessarily. but when you deal with mental health warning signs and resources, when you deal with how schools are made harder targets. when you deal with what is sensible in terms of who gets guns how and why, they're all the right questions, they're just never getting asked, anderson. that's why you hustle the team to come down here, even with you being across the pond, because we think the l we can't let any of these events go. if we forget we're interconnected, and these could be my kids, we'll never get anywhere. we've got to keep pushing for people to do something. >> chris, thanks very much. glad you're there. coming up next, other news. a campaign conspiracy theory the president is pushing and saying would be worse if watergate if true. the question is, is that true? new reporting that goes straight to the heart of the matter. details ahead. ked about this.

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became a hot fake news story. if true all time biggest political scandal. on top of yesterday's tweet which is wow word seems to be that the obama fbi spied on the trump campaign with embedded informant. yesterday rudy giuliani was shocked. >> i'm shocked to hear they put a spy in the campaign of a major party candidate or maybe two spies. and now i'm going through my brains -- you know i was a big part of that campaign. trying to figure out who was the spy. >> right. >> now i wonder is this person or that person or this person. >> today when asked for evidence giuliani had none to offer chris cuomo. >> here is the issue i feel strongly about this with this informant if there is one. first of all i don't know for sure if there was one backup we're told that. >> told that by whom zboo by whom who for a long time we were told there was infiltration. at one time the president

thought it was a wire tap. there were -- there were some fisa applications. we have never been notified tlchs tap or intercept. >> there was never proof he was on a wire tap either. >> no. >> but he he said it as fact as many times. >> ichk he thought that. >> but that don't make it true. that's part of the problem with understanding this situation. the president feels something states it as fact winds up no proof but you have a lot of people believing it. >> he made be coalescer to the truth than people thought. because we're told there were two infiltrations. two embedded people in the campaign. >> now when you say you were told just let's clear the record. you mean you are gleaning this from reporting out there. >> no the reporting corroborates what people told us off the record you know you don't foe if they're right or nont not. they knew a i will about the investigation. >> now, a number of republicans on the house intelligence committee want information about this informant and it's not an abstract argument because the

informant in question is obviously a real person with much at stake. something fbi director chris ray under storied this week in testimony on the hill. >> human sources in particular who put themselves at great risk to work with us and with our foreign partners have to be able to trust that we're going to protect their identities and in many cases their lives and the lives of their families. and the day that we can't protect human sources is the day the american people start becoming less safe. >> well perspective now from a exact on the house intelligence committee. congressman jim holmes of connecticut. have you seen any evidence to suggest there was something improper in the fbi investigation or reason to reveal fbi and cia informant identity to the president's allies? >> none, anderson. and there is none. look you heard rudy giuliani. in legal terms what he was doing he was trafficking in hearsay.

we knew some people who might have known a little something about the investigation. the tell with rudy giuliani, anderson, is the language he uses. a spy. oh, yeah, fisa washts. rudy giuliani is a former prosecutor. he is a lawyer. he conducted dozens of investigations himself. he knows that there is no such thing as a spy in an investigation. there might be informants. there is no evidence of that in this case that he can offer. there were -- there were in fact fisa warrants. the republicans on the intelligence committee made sure america knew about that. and now to the back half of the question, director ray is right. the fbi to keep us safe relies on informants. the intelligence community relies on people in places like pakistan and yemen and russia all over the world willing to risk lives to work with the cia, work with the fbi, because they think that the fbi and the cia will protect them from being killed, in many cases in horrible ways. what deafen nunes and what the president and his people are

telling the world is that when we peel like it we will expose sources, expose informants, expose assets and in dangerous places around the world. that will make the country less safe than it is today all in the effort of throwing mud in the wheels of this investigation. >> the senate intelligence vice chair mark warner issued a statement saying that it could quote for members of congress to use positions to learn the identity of an fbi source. do you believe that's true? >> well, it may be. you know, it would certainly be illegal to do what devin nunes and mark meadows and the fwang of defenders of the president have been doing which is leaking this stuff talking about fisa applications some of the most classified stuff we have talking about it illegal. but what's more concerning is the fact that they demand of the fbi that congress for political purposes -- let's face it -- you

know you listen to rudy giuliani 30 seconds and you know he is there for political not legal purposes. for political purposes they demand the department of justice and fbi let them look into an ongoing investigation. five years ago, ten years ago, a hundred years ago that would have been absolutely unthinkable. completely unthinkable. and it's damaging law enforcement in this country and damaging our ability to get people to cooperate with us abroad at risk to their own lives. >> so the "washington post" reports that the house intelligence chair devin nunes who you talk about is no longer speaking to president trump because of the optics the past interference he ran on the president's behalf. instead nunes is going through don mcgahn. the president is reportedly talking to gop congressman mark meadows about this. and he isn't on the intelligence committee. does that concern you? >> it does. mark meadows and jim jordan don't have three facts to rub together on this investigation. they're not a member of of any of the investigatory committees.

don't know the background. they are willing -- it's interesting because of course they are the leaders of the right wing faction, the conservative faction of the republican party which today brought down the all important farm bill for the republicans thank you very much. but what they have done as leaders as of a conservative republican movement they have said we're setting that aside traditionally we stand for law and order. and we are danging the law and order institutions of the country in favor of simply defending the president. these guys are skating close i think to the letter of the law and to ethical behavior by demanding information from an ongoing investigation from the fbi. and they are certainly doing profound, profound damage to the ability of the fbi in the future to do its job and the ability of the cia to recruit human agents around the world, because it turns out that a couple of politically motivated congressman might be able to out you and it's game over and you're six feet under. >> thanks very much. up next the latest from

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