r drive. but just like a john deere, it's worth it. nothing runs like a deere. now you can own a 1e sub-compact tractor for just 99 dollars a month. learn more at your john deere dealer. hello and welcome to this cnn special, the steve bannon interview. i'm fareed zakaria in rome. bannon came to worldwide attention in august of 2016 when he was named the ceo of donald trump's presidential campaign. after president trump's victory and inauguration bannon was named chief strategist at the white house, reporting only to the president.

but for many he was also the chief ideaologist of a nationalist, protectionist p populism, his ambition is nothing less than to remake conservatism in the world and america and that's remaking politics. but everything from a goldman sk executive was set to clashed with white house officials including the president's family. not even a year into his job, steve bannon was fired. when he was dismissed, bannon didn't disappear. he resumed his post at breitbart, the conservative news outline and continued to give advice to the president. then in january michael wolf's provocative inside account of the white house fire and fury was published. bannon was a chief source which painted the president in a less than flattering light. trump had enough. in a statement he said that when

bannon was fired he not only lost his job, he lost his mind. after his presidential dressing down, bannon also resigned from breitbart but has continued to work to spread his brand of populism and in high demand all over europe especially in italy. he invited me to rome to interview him. why rome? for a place that's been accused of being chaotic. italian politics are more chaotic than ever. what's caused all the trouble is a recent win by italy's populist who bannon has been supporting. we'll dig into that later in the show with steve bannon. over the next hour you hear his thoughts on the wave of populism rising around the world on the republican chances in the mid-terms back home and on his former boss, president trump. here is my exclusive interview. >> steve bannon pleasure to have you on.

>> thanks for having me, fareed. >> you said that you thought that don jr.'s meeting with the russians in trump tower was treasonous you said somebody should call the fbi. >> but i did make a -- >> but i want to ask a question about the issue there. >> yeah. >> the substance, not the. >> yeah. >> in a sense rod rosenstein called the fbi in the sense he appointed something to investigate, that guy's name is bob mueller. >> isn't that good. >> yeah. i've been a big proponent of mueller. i was the guy that said don't fire comey. this is petering out. it's the c block on anderson cooper. nobody is interested anymore. it will be done in 90 days and done with that. >> i have to protest that lots watch the c block of anderson coop sfwroo when anderson has something it's in the a block. if you get a special.

i've been a proponent of mueller. i've been a witness of fact. i've always said he is a combat marine great individual. that will play out as it plays out where you have a problem and i said the guy that said publicly that ty cobb should be fired. he gave the president i thought terrible advice. i think lied to the president consistently about the nature of this investigation and the timing of it. and giving overall dockage. unlike all the presidents that sat with every other president we went and give a million pages of documents and allowed the white house counsel, the chief strategist, the head of communications, to expedite this, which i thought was not wise. >> okay. >> i said that cobb should be fired, and i also said that -- i was a quite supporting rosenstein and i was there when sessions brought him up as the

guy for it and that he should be terminated. and here is why. not mueller but rosenstein. and here is what i think you really -- the focus ought to be is that the president of the ups is the chief law enforcement officer of the country. he ought to order rosenstein to do what deafen nunes did and release every document associated with steven halpern and all the people associated about whoever happened in cambridge. we ought -- not to cnn not to "the new york times" not to "washington post" or the white house, to give it to the chairman of the house intelligence committee. we have to find out all the paperwork who got paid, what happened when a spy and a recruiter of spies which appears from public things if rosenstein doesn't do it he shall be terminated. >> let me ask you about rosen stein's boss. >> yes. >> you were instrumental in getting trump sessions to endorse trump. >> yes very close. >> donald trump says he wishes he picked another attorney general is he right. >> i think the president is wrong. i think he has been wrong from the beginning about -- if i can respectfully disagree with the

president of the united states, i think that -- i think the whole concept of recusal is not even an issue. i think that rudy giuliani or chris christie or jeff sessions anybody associated with the campaign would have had to recuse themselves before grassley's committee even voted him out to go to the floor for a vote. so i think the recusal is an issue -- yes it's an issue dealt with and had to be dealt with. whether you picked roddy or christie. this thing about sessions was not the first pick. rudy was always the first pick. jeff sessions and rudy wanted the secretary of state. even rudy knew there was this issue of recusal. i think the president is wrong. if you look at what jeff sessions has done on immigration, migration and all the key issues of the justice department. sessions is personally doing an excellent job. i think sessions has done a job of devolving this down to

rosenstein. i think the question is rosenstein particularly with the southern district of manhattan involved in the cohen thing. the southern district of manhattan is involved in the trump organization. now he refuses to give some sort of briefing to the gang of eight. they refused to give the documents to nunes, i think now that rosenstein ought to be -- he should be give and direct order simple. you turn every document associated with this spy over in cambridge and whatever foreign institution was involved, whether mi five or mi 6 or anybody else. you give whatever the fbi did, whatever the cia did. you see clapper and these guys and brennan they're bitter old men. you turn over every document. and if he doesn't turn it over you give him 24 hours. and if he doesn't fire him. that's giving a law enforcement officer a direct order to turn over documents to capitol hill. and if he doesn't do it i would fire him. >> next on this cnn special, steve bannon has complained

president the preponderance of innocence of immigrants from certain parts of asia in powerful positions in america. so basically you are saying there are too many people like me in america isn't that racist? are you one sneeze away from being voted out of the carpool? try zyrtec® zyrtec® starts working hard at hour one and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. stick with zyrtec®. muddle no more®. and try children's zyrtec® for consistently powerful relief of your kid's allergies.

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>> what do you mean? >> because immigration is about not just sovereignty. it's about jobs. massive -- i remember the first bucket when we got on the trump campaign. the first bucket was make massive illegal immigration is the -- and the illegal immigration the central issue about jobs. massive immigration is the chamber of commerce and a lot of the republican republican party that want to flood the zone because it's unfair competition for black and hispanic working class. in other words you got so much labor right that you have basically an agriculture. you have the unlimited pool of labor that you continue to from. legal immigration at the top of the same thing. you can't take the hispanic system from the s.t.e.m. system in grammar to the best engineering schools to computer science in the great jobs unless you limit the h1b visas and

unfair competition they have from east asia and south asia. it's no hit to the people from china or yand they're fantastic. we have to carve space out by allowing our citizens to get the jobs. that's why i'm saying from day one the exactic party and particularly the progressive part of bernie sanders in the labor movement i've said this from day one we can carve off 23 to a third of bernie sanders movement is at the end of the day they don't have the answer for immigration we have to limit massive illegal immigration. you're seeing this in the trump administration. what he has done with the legal immigration that's why we have the lowest black unemployment and hispanic unemployment. that's why rages are in agriculture. >> is why donald trump has gone very hard line on immigration? is this the strategy that will limit the damage on the midterm? >> here is what i think happened in the first year administration we clearly had conflicting

voices of the globalist, the gary cohen and mcmasters good guys but they come with the thing on the nationalist. i think as president trump looks at the midterm and the republican party paul ryan quit. the republican party has had attitude we'll fight this by congressional district by congressional district. what trump has done i think is moved aside the chief of staff. he is now -- five or six people directly report to him. he hasew nec, new ncs. nick mulvaney reports to him coms reports to him. he's doing what he wants to do to execute on his plan and that plan he sees is the promises he made, up until build the wall which i'll get to in a second. this is playing for november 6th of 2018 it's a base plus election. okay if you want to limit -- by the way it's it's up or down vote on impeachment. trump is on the ballot in every congressional district. this is not some democratic congressman versus republican congressman.

this is donald trump versus nancy pelosi and tom stein. >> and he is nationalizing it using immigration. >> you are seeing more of this. more of the central beating heart issues. immigration is definitely one. >> thinking about football players who happen to be black. >> no actually the opposite. if you see kanye west, black america is now understanding i got the lowest unemployment in history. my wages are rising. what this guy is saying is making sense. it's not about a minimum wage of 15 bucks. it may cost $20 to flip a hamburger. what we have to limit is limit the unfair competition. the working class blacks and hispanic have been hit more than any other segment of our country. these are some of the best patriots. they're in the u.s. army, the rifle platoons in the marine corps that working class black and hispanic have been eviscerated. between the financial collapse and this unlimited competition they have from foreign labor, that has to stop. trump, i think -- this is going to be. up or down vote on november 6th.

this is going to be about impeachment, it will be about the tax cuts all the economy will go up. but the republicans have been running ads on tax cuts alone, it's not resonating. you're either with nancy pelosi or with donald trump. to a degree -- remember the democrats have questioned his legislate macy from the beginning, the nullification project .. the one things democrats in the opposition party media cnn you guys got one thing right. you're getting a do over. trump's second presidential race will be on november 6th. he is on the ballot. up or down vote. do you back trump's program okay with all the good and bad? but you back trump's program or do you back removing him? because that's what pelosi and tom styer and these guys what. >> you say you're not a racist i take you at face value. but i want to ask you about the policies and the intended or unintended consequences they sure as hell attract a lot of people who are avowed not to be

racist. i think the exchange you said with trump on breitbart. trump said he was in favor of high skilled immigrants. wait a minute if you're ending up with two thirds of kohl son valley ceos being from south asia and then you paused and you said a country is more than an economic community. >> yes. >> basically you're saying too many people like me in america isn't that racist. >> no, no. economic nationalism doesn't care about race, ethnicity, religion, doesn't care about have gender, doesn't care about your religion, sexual preference, it cares about if you're a united states citizen. >> those people -- in silicon valley. >> we don't -- hang on we don't know -- no, no we don't know what's coming through by hb 1 visa or not. we can't get the country sorted out until we have now taken the entire elementary school and made it science, technology, engineering and math. >> steve with all due respect, what that answer implied was that they had come from the wrong culture. if they came from the right

culture if i was white and christian you might have a different. >> makes no difference no. >> what you mean. >> if you're from asia and you hear secontion american citizen absolutely no problem. these hb1 visas where you come here and you take the jobs of american citizens is just not acceptable. that's not racist. the central beating heart of this is that hispanics and blacks have to get into the high valley tech jobs we're not doing that as long as they have unfair competition. >> by the way, they're not going to do that by gutting spending you're celebrating the did he constructing of the administrative state but it's the scholarships and programs ing and pre-k and nutrition programs that help poor people rise up. >> we just passed a $4.3

trillion budget. they added to the programs. when they added to defense programs they added to all the other programs. we candidate cut one penny from the programs. by the way, it's $1.3 trillion of discretionary spending. we have $1 trillion deficit structurally. >> but the trillion and a half dollars tax cut. >> that was supposed to be the concomitantantly part was supposed to be significant cuts in the budget. and the political class failed to do it. when president trump woke up to the fact that he had been sold a bill of goods. remember he says this will never happen again. one of the events to watch in the coming election before november 6th -- september 30th is the end of the appropriations year. he has already said i'm not kicking the can down the road more. we're not having crs that's why you see on capitol hill people are talking about we have to get this done before the august recess. >> okay i got to get a few more things. >> by the way what i'm saying is i think that what president trump is nationalizing this.

the prwall is central. the wall is not just totemic. it's central to his program. i believe that what he is going to do is as we come up on september 30th if that appropriations bill does not include spending to fully build his wall, not some $1.6 billion for prototypes, i mean to build the southern wall. i believe he will shut down the government. i believe the government will shut down in the run up to the election. >> you've been really about trump in this interview and yet he called you sloppy steve. he says you've lost your mind. he says you had nothing to do with his election. what's your response? >> he is donald trump. i think he is doing a fantastic job. look every day is different. you just got to hang -- you got to swing with it. i knew trump for many, many years before i stepped into the campaign. not really well. >> does he call you to tell you steve i'm kidding. >> trust me he does not do that.

every action he is taking, i am really happy with. i think he has the right with larry kudlow -- when larry kudlow went on cnbc and cn dmrks widmrks -- cnn in his first interview, no, no, no sat down with kudlow, he went on with the interview he said we have to be on china. china has cheated us. you said it in your column two months ago. we've got china dead to rights in this thing. they can't happy talk -- they can't go to davos and give a speech about globalization about how the world is-free trading when he they run as a america tilist society. >> why did i come all the way to rome to interview steve bannon? well italy's politics were in absolute chaos this week. and bannon has a lot to say about the subject. much more on that when we come back. >> we're coming up on the tenth year anniversary of the financial crisis. the fuse lit then that brought the trump revolution is what's happening here in italy. and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams

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the trouble stems from the march elections. that vote saw the populist party surge in popularity, rejecting traditional party politics. the party ran on italy first mentality promising a crackdown on immigration if that sounds familiar and the populist coalition threatened the italian relationship with the european union causing grave concerns among italians and europeans and global stock markets. from italy anne own stocks were tumultuous based in large part on the turmoil in italy. steve bannon is here to support and learn from the italian populists. >> in a sense you think we're in italy in an unusual moment because this is the future and it might be the united states. let me set the scene and then you tell me why this is the future. and it might be the united states. let me set the stage and you

tell me. you had a strange left/right coalition, a populist movement with the five-star movement along with the northern league kind of separatist movement of northern italy. they won a majority in the election. why is this the future and what does it mean for the -- you know politics in the west. >> we're coming up on the tenth year anniversary of the financial crisis, the financial collapse that happened in september of 2008 as you remember and the presidential election of obama and john mccain. the implosion of the world capital markets has never been sorted out. the fuse lit then that eventually brought the trump revolution is the same thing happening in italy. you've had the stagnant economy. the economy today is aller than 2008. you've had a populist and nationalist movement kind of form. one in the north and one in the south. what happened that was so amazing --s reason i came over and saw this trump rally type intensity, you had a full vetting of particularly the centrist party, which was the

traditional centrist parties in this populist an nationalist movement on the right and the populist movement on the left. they won. in fact two thirds of the vote that took place in march was really anti-establishment saying we want to tri something different. what was most amazing talking about big ideas and incredible participation by young people. young people were engaged particularly on the feist-star movement really an internet based movement. >> that's the only populist movement in europe at least that draws young people. >> yes for right now. i mean you do have some young people in the populist movements. the five-star movement is a young person's movement, right? it's compelling not just from the south but drawing young people. they then over the eight-week period -- i was vocal after the election in the media here saying you know it would be interesting if they put together -- leave the old dichotomy of left and right aside and put together a unify government that would unify north and south. >> you see this as sanders plus trump. >> elements of the sanders movement and elements of the trump movement or the trump base. what was most important, i think

for american audience or world audience is what five star represents and anti-crony capitalism and it's the political class and the permanent political class, that foisted this burden on us. we want to get rid of those guys. they're not schooled in government. the head of demaio was a waiter. the mayor of rome, the young mayor of rome was formally a secretary. these are people from every day walks saying we are the anti-political party. in 80 days they put aside differences of north and south, right and left and came together with a government in a 56-page or 60-page document that layed out flat tax, how they do the guaranteed income graduated thing. really well thought through on the migrant issue, on the flat tax on growing the economy,

getting the pay back up to 3%. >> brewedly speaking fair to say the policy was left wing on economics but right wing on immigration. >> except the flax tax. this is the steve forbes rand paul dream of a flat tax. hungry poland and other countries experimenting with it. remember, italy is the fourth largest economy in- one of the founding members i think the eighth largest economy in the world. still a major industrial power. people forget this is not just for tourism it's a major industrial power particularly in the north. they were going to the 15% flat tax which is radical. it was well thought through not wide eyed. here is what impressive about de mayo and slovenia, put their egos aside. they put another guy up unknown law professor as the prime minister and put a guy, dr. safen o, an pert in the eu and actually the you're owe

database did dsh he was controversial because he said this is a german cage. france and germany are killing us. but they put him forward and the central guys rejected it. >> how will this come to america? why do you think. >> i think the tea party revolt of 2010 which saw 62 seats go in the house kind of petered out a little bit with the romney campaign and obama. what i -- i saw in the european elections in 2014 with nigel faraj, the reinvig ration ofreie populist movement. europe is base a year ahead of the united states. and i think you're seeing now pieces being put together where you see populist nationalist movements with reform, with people saying hey it's the permanent political class. what we have to do is get rid of politic. s, get involved citizens. that's i think the power you see here. you could begin to see the elements of bernie sanders coupled with the trump movement that really becomes a dominant political force in american politics. >> next on this cnn special trump has yet to build the wall and the tax cut disproportion knitly helps corporations and

people who are already rich. has the trumpian revolution, as bannon envisioned it failed? i asked steve bannon. >> i was the guy that argued there there ought to be a 44% tax for the upper brackets. but that was kind of dismissed early on. you have to make manufacturing competitive in the united states. and that's the heart of that -- by the way -- >> but it hasn't come -- investment hasn't come back. instead the estate tax has been exemption has been doubled. steve, .2% of americans pay estate taxes. >> fareed, i do disagree, because i think sometimes you're caught up too much in process. tk for heart attack or stroke. can one medicine help treat both blood sugar and cardiovascular risk? i asked my doctor. she told me about non-insulin victoza®. victoza® is not only proven to lower a1c and blood sugar, but for people with type 2 diabetes

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i thought after sandy hook, where 20 six and seven year olds were slain, this would never happen again. it has happened more than 200 times in 5 years. dianne feinstein and a new generation are leading the fight to pass a new assault weapons ban. say no to the nra and yes to common-sense gun laws. california values senator dianne feinstein say no to the nra and yes to common-sense gun laws. ithe race for governort. has turned into a scam. gavin newsom's trying to elect a republican who was endorsed by trump. and villaraigosa's being bankrolled by a handful of billionaires. it's everything that's wrong with politics. and none of it is helping struggling families. here's my pledge to you. i'll keep our budget balanced. invest in affordable housing. fight for universal healthcare. and stand up to donald trump.

as governor, you can trust me to do what's right- because i always have. so you think at the heart of this populism that you see sweeping the western world is the economic populism to take care of working class people who have been left behind. i wonder, 500 days into the trump administration, the signature achievement of the trump administration has been a tax cut basically been disproportionately to the wealthy, to corporations, there hasn't been much return of manufacturing jobs. you gave a speech once where you said three things they have to do. control immigration. you have to take care of -- bring back jobs from china and get out of the wars. >> yes. >> none of that's happened. there's no wall, there's no jobs

back from china. they are still -- >> let's -- let's go with taxes. >> all you have is a big tax cut. i can't believe you approved of that. >> let's go to the tax cut. when we first came in paul ryan and guys had been working seven or eight years the border adjustable tax made on the model of germany to make us a export nation heavy inducement to manufacturing. 100% expensing of capital kwichl. equipment. that blew up in the first 90 days. the cokes and wal-mart and the retailers said this is a value added tax. we have to get rid of this. then the trump program was i believe in the center of it i think is quite wise. what they did is said hey we can't get it done we have to get competitive with germany and china as far as taxes and repatriation. the heart of it -- remember i was a guy that argued there ought to be a 44% tax for the upper brackets, but that was dismissed early on. but the beating heart of it i

think even bringing the populists came together it was a major first step for getting investment backs to the united states. you have to make manufacturing competitive in the united states that's the heart of it the tax cut. >> but it hasn't come bam investment hasn't come back. instead the estate tax has been exemption has doubled. steve .2% of americans pay estate taxes .2. it's not the one%. >> i think fareed sometimes you're ut up in process. you are seeing the animal spirit reinvestment in the country. one of the reasons we have 3 growth at the fourth quarter 2.2% but the projection is for the 3%. a lot of that is for the reinvestment and manufacturing. was it a perfect tax cut and was it a perfect populist tax cut? the answer is no. but it's starting to rejuvenate the american economy and gives us an engine to drive the -- the

answer is yes. you'll see president trump later in his first term and second term start to address some maybe inequalities in the tax code which should have been addressed in the ryan bill. but that blew up early on in the administration. >> so then the other part. >> by the way, one thing about the elites, here is the thing. i don't believe that people focus enough on what started this. it's interesting your show started about ten years ago. the financial crisis of 2008, the brought on by the elites of both parties, okay, where they bailed themselves out, remember that was when bernanke and others when leman brothers went bankrupt, the smartest guys, the geniuses didn't realize that the lehman brothers was the heart of the world commercial market. they go to bush and said we need a trillion dollars by 5:00 in the afternoon. >> i got it, steve. >> no, no but they took. >> but the same people. >> you are giving them another tax cut. i don't understand that. >> no, no. >> is the price you're paying to keep the republican party with you? be honest you're paying a price to the republican establishment. >> listen when we first got into

the kpap you have to bring -- remember we're a coalition, a coalition the republican establishment and this populist nationalist movement. and it takes both to win. we're very cognizant of that. i do believe that at the heart of the tax cut was the r for corporations to be competitive overseas with germany and china. it's a winner. my point with the establishment, the balance sheet of the federal reserve in 2008 was $880 billion. it's 5.5 trillion a day. the same crisis happened in the euro zone what the elite did did was flood the zone with liquidity. there wasn't a deflation and collapse of the financial markets. in the euro zone if you own stocks or intellectual property, it's the greatest ten-year run in history. the working guy is stiffed the entire time. that's led to the revolt. that's what you see in italy. the elites don't have a response.

what has stunned me in being over here, is the arrogance, people think that united states is arrogant to the heartland of the country, that's nothing compared to brussels and the city of london are to the individual countriecountries. they have basically dismissed. here you had an election with two thirds of the people voting anti-establishment parties. almost 50% voted for five star and the league and completely dismissed after putting together a government, they completely dismissed and said not acceptable. >> stay with me here. i have more of the interview come up. i'll ask him, did donald trump take over the gop or did the gop take over donald trump? managing blood sugar

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so the second part of your program was bringing jobs back from china. i'm wondering, again, you look at what is happening with the administration. there is a lot of talk on being tough on trade but very little action. steve mnuchin walked back a lot of the comments. then the president throws a life line to zte, a chinese company that basically exists on american technology and says he's doing it because he's worried about chinese jobs. you must -- >> you had a column a couple of weeks ago i couldn't disagree with more. about trump as a negotiator versus a marketer. okay. let's step back a second. weave been told with the rise of china, both from the cheerleaders, the rational accommodationists and even the hawks that it was inexorable,

the rise of china donald trump has done something extraordinary that wall street and the corporatist told us can't be done. he has three weapon processes one is tariffs on a massive school. the 50 billion we're talking about and another 100 billion after that and another 100 billion. maybe up to a quarter trillion dollars of tares i was. number two is the 301 where china forces not steals our intellectual property. forces us to give the intellectual property. and the last is the actions like zte where we can implode a company by cutting them off from the supply chain. >> but the action has been to throw a life line to zte. >> remember, the whole thing about the grand bargain with china do we set the geostrategic balance with china for the next 50 years. and that's one of the things i think president trump is working through. on top of that he has the south china sea and north korea. he has to balance the two flash points in the world probably are the two or three most intense

flash points where war can actually start. in doing that -- >> this is not answering the question because i know you. >> no, no, wall street told us all weather watcher is the blunt instrument of swift system or cutting off capital markets. trump brought in three weapons. put them on the book foot thp they came over because they had a sense of urgency. >> one of the heads of the chinese me. >> they doesn't get on without a sense of urgency. they have always wanted to tap us along and have these strategic conversations. you have the split in the administration, wall street guy was mnuchin that want to accommodate. and to steve's defense work out a short term deal. and then you have the hawks be lightheizer miller, saying to we have china where we want them. and the president's negotiating strategy is give a little take a little et cetera. here is where we are nafta around the world, we're at the beginning stages of the renegotiation of the economics

of the united states and how we are treated throughout the world and what our place is in the world. it's at the heart as you said a couple of months ago of the republican party in the reformation of the republican party. his biggest enemies are the republican party. and it shouldn't be losing people when cane went to capitol hill. he went because he knew the free traders are. he had basic backing when he said going to the negotiations i understand that congress is full of free traders from the heritage and kato and also democrats i got free traders there. trump has done an amaze be job. he has taken us farther than anybody has ever done with china. he has real engagement. it's not happening overnight. but you'll see in the next six months to a year i think a real recalibration of the relationship with china we are putting america first and stop being treated as a tributary state.

right now it's barbarian management 101. we are jamestown, they are great britain. we send natural gas, soybeans hogs and they send us back -- they send us back advanced manufacturing. >> let me ask you from the point of view of somebody in the republican establishment, and i've talked to a few after that column you referenced. they said look from our point of view, things are working out fine. trump talks tough on some of the things. very little actually happens. but the stuff that gets implemented is the core republican agenda. and what you'll see is he makes some of the attempts at protectionism but look at the reality. he doubled down on afghanistan. doubled down on iraq. more engaged militarily in all the wars that you wanted him to get out of. there is no wall. there is no great tariff war with china right now. when they look at it it seems to me their saying, donald trump hasn't taken over the republican party, the republican party has taken over donald trump. >> okay, let me beg to defer. you have to remember is that

what he is doing is the right way populism is different than the populism you see in europe. europe always looks for a state solution. part of what right wing populism is, is destructing the right wing state. and getting more of a piece of the action for the working class and lower middle class. what trump has done with judges, deregulation and really under the surface as deconstruction state, total place for the the populist agenda. remember, these trade deals are complicated, the trade deal, walk away from tpp, we have all these bilateral deals, we're deep into it with nafta. we're very deep into it with china, on the fact we just laid on $50 billion in tariffs. he's making progress on these every day. let's talk about afghanistan and the wars. the central thesis of the trump movement in donald trump is

america first, it's not america isolationist or america alone. what he looks at, he does this in a very sophisticated way, he says look, the postwar liberal rules based order. they came after world war ii is essentially today from europe, the persian gulf, the straits of malaca and the north china sea and the northwest pacific is essentiay the combination of trade relationships, commercial relationships, capital markets and security guarantees and alliances is basically underwritten by the american taxpayer. under written by the american tax payer and deplorables where that tax burden goes. in addition, it's their kids in the hindu chris mounts of afghanistan. south korea and peninsula. there has to be a recalibrations of this. it's not that america is backing off. but america is more than an

expeditionary humanitary cop of the world. in nato, he said, hey, it's got tb 2%. you have to be an ally. >> that stuff obama also said, the point is -- >> the difference is -- >> there are more groups, more bombs. >> no no, this is an important point. what he's doing, whether it's in northwest pacific with japan or korea, he's engaging our allies to say, hey, look, this has to work for america overall. korea i'm going to renegotiate the trade deal, tame we talked about the fed system and you pained the fed system, same thing in japan. it's the foreign policy community that has bifurcated this. donald trump looked at this as a practical businessman and said, you can't bifurcated these. these are inextricably linked.

these are trade relationships and national security. that engagement, people, the first thing media says about him, he's an isolationist, we wants america to go alone, it's the opposite. like anywhere, it's engagement. in iran it's the front line nations of saudi arabia and united arab emirates, in egypt, israel, jordan, they're the ones that are the biggest cheerleaders for what he's done. if you look around the world it's the exact opposite as he's been portrayed. america seems to be deeply polarized under donald trump. european countries also being torn apart. how will steve bannon end this wave of polarization and bring people back together. i ask him when we come back. >> i keep saying, bernie sanders had been more confrontational and had more stones, he would have been the nominee and would have had a real fight with donald trump.

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you bind the wounds of the country back together? >> we don't have the wounds yet. i think it healthy. i think it's healthy like it is here in italy. people are more engaged in these topics than they have ever ben. these are the great issues of the day, this is why i keep saying this theory of history in the fourth turning, the country's going to be one thing or the other. this battle between national list and globalist. is at the fundamental roots of what america is and what america will be. i love the confrontation. i welcome it. in fact i keep saying if bernie sanders had been more confrontational and had more sterns, he would have been the nominee and we would have had a real fight with donald trump in the run up to '16, not hillary clinton. i think this is very healthy and for the folks at home i think this is going to go on a long time. i think it's a long time before we bind up the wounds, we have a lot more fighting and a lot more scar tissue to go over.

>> steve bannon, pleasure to have you on. >> fareed, thanks for having me. >> that's it. thank to all of you for watching. don't forget, you can catch fareed zakaria every sunday on cnn. check cnn.com for your local air times. ciao from rome. i'm brian stelter and this is "reliable sources." this hour, the term fake news is out, the term double standard is in. the pro trump -- are they the ones with two sets of rules? and speaking of double standards, joy reid is apologizing for old blogs.