>> with the rise of donald trump, fox did become a propaganda machine. and frankly, you know, as a former military officer, i took an oath to support and defend the constitution of the united states and i saw in my view fox particularly the prime time hosts attacking our constitutional order, the rule of law, justice department, the fbi, robert mueller and, oh by the way, the intelligence agencies and they're doing it for ratings and profit. and they're doing it knowingly in my view doing a great, grave disservice to our country. >> i don't suppose the obvious needs more elaboration but politico's now reporting tonight that a high profile fox news host wants to be the trump's attorney general says judge pirro quote repeatedly told the president's aides she wants to take over the job and the report continues that president trump

dangled the possibility of a top appointment. politico said it has not xh ent -- comment from the white house or janine pirro. thanks for very much for watching. "cuomo prime time" starts now. chris? >> appreciate it as always. welcome to "prime time." president trump's approval rating climbing. as midterm season approaches. economy and tough talk paying off? or, is sowing division paying dividends? we'll test both. also, bernie sanders, senator from vermont, he says trumpism is still a loser and he has something better for you and he's here to make the case next. and this could be the next shock of the new normal. is one of the president's favorite fox news hosts really up for jeff sessions' job? plus the president shrugging off preparation, study?

really important before a big meeting. he says he doesn't need it for the summit and says attitude is what matters more. we'll take on the state of play in the white house with corey lewandowski. what do you say, friends? let's get after it. independent senator bernie sanders here right now. only a few months from the midterm elections. donald trump's approval rating on the rise. here are the numbers. was about 39, 40, now 44% in a new poll. economy is up. penchant for punching opponents and ceding animosity apparently paying off in the polls. we see in the numbers the race for congress is unusually tight. why are democrats and senator sanders confident they can regain the majority? let's test. senator, thank you for joining us. a true pleasure. i appreciate it. >> thank you for having me, chris. >> when we look at the poll numbers, i know you hate polls but apples to apples, the

numbers now close to where obama was right before his first midterm. why do you believe trump will suffer the same fate obama do d or akin to it where the out party, the democrats, regain the majority? >> i think for a couple of reasons. one of the reasons the poll numbers are going up is the economy is very strong. worldwide, what we are seeing now is relatively low unemployment rates, japan and germany, canada has the lowest unemployment rate of 40 years. mexico's unemployment rate is very, very low so the world economy is now rebounding from the terrible wall street crash of 2008 and any president is able to take advantage of that. that's true. this is the problem that trump will have. he ran for president and he said to the people, i'm going to provide health care to everybody. remember that, chris? >> yes, sir. >> to everybody. good, quality health care. he supported legislation to throw 32 million people off of health care and costs in this

country are rising number one uninsured are rising. trump said that he would support tax reform which would not benefit the well think and at a time of massive income and wealth inequality trump's tax proposal gave 83% of its benefits over 10 years to -- >> but the middle class, senator. they like the tax cuts. >> no, they do not like them. >> why. >> everybody likes a tax cut and people do not at a time when three people in this country, chris, own more wealth than the bottom half of the american people. very few people, poll it, thinks it's makes sense to building and large profitable corporations. the other point to be made, we'll make this on the campaign, is that while unemployment today is low, do you know what the increase in wages -- real wage increases for the american worker was last year? >> 3%. >> zero. nope. it kept pace with inflation for the average american worker. didn't make a nickel after

inflation. >> so you're saying zero. nets to zero because of the cost of living increase. let's ask you something you went over quickly. don't you think that president trump deservedly gets credit for the strong economy, not just a by-product of going on globally? he made moves and gave confidence to industry that is benefiting the american people and we see it in the poll numbers. >> no. honestly, look. the truth is every president, democrat an republican, says, hey, when the economy's going good, all my brilliant ideas. but trump or anybody else will have to explain is why in germany right now unemployment rate is lower than the united states. japan it's lower. in mexico, now 3.8. the world's economy is doing well. our economy is doing well. in terms of unemployment, but we are not doing well in terms of raising wages for working workers. i was in disneyland saturday.

they're working for disney who are making literally starvation wages. all over this country. people trying to make it on $9, $10, $11 an hour. they can't make it. they can't feed their families. they can't afford to send their kids to college. they don't have health care. the crisis of the time right now is not unemployment. unemployment is very low. the crisis of our time are low wages, people can't afford health care, can't afford prescription drugs and send their kids to college. those are the issues that trump is not dealing with. >> he said he is. reduced regulations to make corporations happy. more money to people. wages up. now putting in place tariffs and people like bernie sanders and elizabeth warren and the democrats traditionally like for an uneven playing field. the workers do better and more jobs and investment in steel companies being made already

even before the tariffs take their bite. how can you do better than that, senator? >> first of all, first of all, as i said just wages are not going up. >> they are going up and netting them to zero with a cost of living adjustment. >> if you're an average worker -- chris, chris, that's what economists do, you know? if you are an average worker paying more for gasoline, health care, child care, more for affordable housing, you are not getting ahead. the bottom line is despite the strong economy is not getting ahead. >> right. >> those are the issues. and then i got to tell you -- you know, trump campaigned you said you remember this. i will not cut social security. medicare and medicaid. believe me. i'm not paul ryan. that's what he said. his budget trillion dollar cut in medicaid proposal. $500 million in medicare. massive cuts in education. nutrition programs. he is a tool of the wealthiest

people in this country. and i think the american people understand that. >> all right. one more beat on the political state of play and then policy. i did a lot of homework for you tonight, senator. on politics you said part of the remedy is new blood, new candidates. a great book about this. handbook for revolution. you know, with a small "r." how you take back control of the democracy. your candidates are not doing great. what did you get wrong? >> not -- not true. look, chris. do you think that -- you know a little bit about politics. do you think in a year or two suddenly we transform the entire democratic party, take on big money, take on the establishment? the truth of the matter is what we have been focusing on is grassroots activism and doing extremely well. we have been -- >> why aren't the candidates winning more? >> oh, my god, they're winning all over the country. >> you had a lot of gios lose. i don't think you're even at 500. >> chris, that is in all due respect not an intelligent way

to look at it. i can be at 100% if i keep -- supported candidates who had all the money and the power and the poll. we are trying to support candidates who are fighting for working people and by the way where we are winning hands down is that our progressive agenda which is as you will remember is considered to be fringe and extreme, that's kind of mainstream now. the people support med daicare all. raising the minimum wage to 15 bucks a hour. making public colleges and universities tuition free. rebuilding the infrastructure. >> right. >> our ideas on winning and at the grassroots level more and more people are getting involved. >> more in a second but a pushbacks is it's expensive what you want to do. howard schultz head of starbucks stepping away. he may run. what do you think of him as a candidate for democrats? let's play you sound from him. >> it concerns me that so many voices within the democratic

party are going so far to the left. and i ask myself, how are we going to pay for all these things? in terms of things like single payer or people, espousing the fact that the government to give everyone a job. i don't think that's realistic. >> all right. now, bernie sanders won't like that spirit of that statement what do you think of the left shuts of businessman versus businessman? >> chris, i honestly do not know mr. schultz at all. all that i can say -- >> what do you think of the comment? >> well, i think his comment is dead wrong. i think you have a guy who think that is the united states apparently should remain the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all people. the truth of the matter is that i think study after study indicated that medicare for all is a much more cost effective approach toward health care than

our current dysfunctional health care system which is far and away the most expensive system per capita than any system on earth. >> all right. so you're going to deal with it just in terms of expensive to fix some of these things but costs us a lot of money now. now the meat of the matter here. can i get up? good with that? good. senator,dy a lot of homework, talked to experts, some of you which you used, as well, to break down single payer health carement it's complex and scary to peep. i have three big main points of pushback for you to defend. here we go. the first one is i have written the word socialism. i'm not here to call you a socialism but it smacks of the end of capitalism and that people will say -- >> oh really? does it, chris? chris? chris? >> okay. >> chris? you will have to do some more homework because i think you have to explain to the american people if canada can provide health care to all people, uk,

every major country on earth provides health care to all people, i don't think it's that scary. >> they call it socialized medicine. >> well, some people may. so what? >> that's kind of what it is. government paying for everything. taking the private -- >> no. medicare -- no. actually, chris, chris, actually, it is not. canadian health care system has private doctors, private hospitals, private nonprofit hospitals. doctors practice on their own. what we have in this country, chris, which does not scare people but which people think very highly of is medicare. right? >> yes. >> medicare is the most popular health care program in america today. >> true. >> people are saying, if it's good for people 65 and older, why shouldn't it be good for everybody in this country? >> good. that's the suggestion. now the point of pushback might be. 70% of people in polls say health care is top priority.

worried about it. want it better. now on trump's plate because of the individual mandate and popping premiums. you are right about that. however, the only thing that unites people more with health care is the fear of change. okay? so that's going to take trust and right now there isn't a lot of trust with you people down in washington because they see you as breaking this. what is your pitch for how this is better? that means, better outcomes, better experience, better on their pocketbook. how is single payer going to be better when it will require people like me, a generous health care policy through the employer, 170 million of us, we will have to change and come into your new plan. why is it better? >> well, you're going to change, chris, not in terms of the doctor you go to. you go to the -- >> huh oh. watch with that promise. i heard that got somebody in trouble once. >> no, no, no. no, no, no. you're going to change in that

the color of your card is going to be a little bit different. instead of saying blue cross blue shield or united it is going to say medicare. and i think at a time when people who are watching this program have deductibles of $5,000 or $10,000 a year can't afford to go to the doctor, 1 out of 5 americans can't afford the prescription drugs they need because we are ripped off by the greed of the pharmaceutical industry, i think it is clear that we need health care that guarantees quality care to every man, woman and child in this country. lowers the cost of the prescription drugs and expands primary health care in america. today we have the most expensive system per capita in the world by far. >> we'll get to that. however, when you look at canada, the uk, even look at taiwan, they have problems with drug pricing. in fact, most of those plans require supplemental policies

for drugs, explicitly -- >> it is not true. >> it is true. you have people in canada having to take out separate insurance. taiwan. >> right. all right. but, but -- no. that's true. canadians now see one of the weaknesses of their system, chris, is that they don't cover prescription drugs as part of their health care system. and they're moving on there. but having said that, the costs of prescription drugs in this country undeniably are far, far higher than they are in canada. >> true. >> millions of americans today are buying their prescription drugs from canada and other countries. >> true. >> because only in america can the drug companies charge you any price they want for the drugs you desperately need. >> true. >> meaning millions of people cannot afford the medicine they require. >> strong point for sanders there. that now takes us to the crux of the matter. what do you do about the costs? pretty much everybody -- you still hearing me, senator?

>> yeah. i am. >> good. because, you know, sometimes people say they can't hear and you don't want do listen but that's not you, senator. money, how do we deal with the money? this is expensive. the trillions of dollars to cost and how you deal with it. two main ways. the first one is cut the costs you're talking about, have the government be the sole -- not just pooling the people together because in numbers there's strength but it would mandate what the pricing is. sounds good. force the companies to kneel and come into an obeyance but 1 in 9 people in the economy employed in medicine. within healthcare. you would destroy that industry and becoming cheaper and affect access, it could affect employment for people. how do you sell that, cutting costs will work? >> first of all, i think when

you have the function of health care, chris, let me back it up, a minute. should not be make profits insurance companies and ceos to earn $20 million or $30 million a year. again, chris, what i'm suggesting to you is not a radical idea. it exists in every other major country on earth. the function of a rational health care system is to provide health care to all people in a cost effective way. that's the function of a rational health care system. >> understood. >> now, to answer your question, is it true that today there are some people if you go to the basement of a hospital, you got hundreds of people, dozens of people who are doing nothing else but billing. right if they're sending out telling you that you owe them money. you have people hounding doctors about what kind of medicine they should be able to use. >> right. >> so forth and so on. will they lose their jobs when we have health care guaranteed? the answer is, yes.

on the other hand, we have a lack of doctors in this country, a lack of nurses, a lack of nurse practitioners and dentists. we are an aging population. we need more people working with the older people. we'll create more jobs under a rational medicare for all system than currently exists. there will be a transition just as the same way to transform the energy system. we create more jobs and pain and you got to deal with that pain. >> all right. dealing with pain is not something that's done well in politics and why the idea of raising taxes to pay for this single payer plan, almost a guarantee, is hard. your own state vermont tried it in -- >> chris, chris, chris? >> they couldn't do it. >> chris, chris, you're talking about raising taxes. >> yes. >> but you're forgetting the other half of the equation. people are not going to be paying private insurance costs. so if hypothetically we say to you, chris, bad news is you're

going to pay $5,000 more in taxes. good news is you're not paying $10,000 to blue cross. are you really going to come crying to me? >> but i'll tell you. depends on who i am. i'm a cuomo. never cry. i have a problem of emotional limitation. it depends on the salary. if it's a 10% vig for this, that for someone making $40,000 is one amount of and then $100,000 for someone else and balance that. would you accept anything short of this? work on some kind of halfway plan. >> chris, let me just say this. chris, chris, i would not be fighting for medicare for all which, by the way, a majority of the american people now support, i would not be fighting for this unless it benefited financially and in a health perspective ordinary americans. so let's be clear about this. at the end of the day, the middle class and working families of the country better off under medicare for all system. you have unions. i talked to union workers the

other day. what do you think happens every time a contract comes up? spend half the lives arguing about health care costs and they don't get a wage increase. >> same time, one of the most expensive labor costs in the country. one thing about politics before i let you go. i said we'd talk policy for most of the interview. you never talked about the plan as much as tonight and this is just the first of the conversations. we'll do it a lot between now and the mod terms. your son's running for congress. you said i don't like die nastic politics. why? it's only two of you. that's no dynasty. >> i have more than two. my son is running on medicare for all, raising the minimum wage. >> right. >> he is running on programs that -- >> like a better locking bernie that guy. >> i think -- i think that, you know, i don't believe in dynastic politics. he's on his own and i'm sure

he'll do well. >> you can't cut your son loose. your brother is running in the uk. >> i don't. i don't believe in dynastic politics. that's my view. i think and i'm proud he's standing up for the people of mn new hampshire. >> who's better for working people, you or him? >> he's doing a great job. we'll let the voters of new hampshire make that decision. >> i love to see people struggle with it. senator sanders, i appreciate you taking a first step with us here to explain your case to the american people. these are big issues. we'll keep talking about it here. i promise you that. >> thank you. >> all right. all right. so there it is. i know it seems complicated but breaking it down boo the main points you get to see this is the case making to you. do you want to buy it? this fox news host, hearing about this story, reportedly

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all right. i'd never tell you news that the president is threatening to fire his attorney general. we hear that almost like what? daily. but now this is a good twist. there's word that one of his favorite fox news hosts is gunning for the job. jeanine pirro, could she succeed in ousting jeff sessions? we're going to debate it. but first, i got to give people a little taste of what jeanine is cooking. >> does hillary clinton drop off the pantsuits here for dry cleaning? looking for hillary. i can't find her. hillary! we need to kill them.

we need to kill them. if the devil called me and said he wanted to set up a meeting to give me opposition research on my opponent i'd be on the first trolley to hell. jeff sessions is indeed the most dangerous man in america. the fbi is the crime family. there's a rat in the white house. and once we catch him, what do we do with him? >> kill him? >> okay. let me ask you this, rick. the idea of jeanine pirro taking the job of jeff sessions, you support the senator and now attorney general and doing a good job and we know crazier things have happened. make the case for pirro, for or against. >> i'm not going to make -- i know the judge. i like her very much. i consider her a friend.

but, you know, she's stepping out of the public life. and has gone into, you know, hosting a tv show and as you can see she is very colorful, very entertaining. in my mind very funny at times and that's her schtick right now and does a great job at it. but that doesn't put you in a position for the highest law enforcement officer of the country. and the bottom line is she could not get confirmed to the united states senate and i don't think the president is up for any kind of battle in the senate over an attorney general. i think one of the reasons jeff sessions will stick around for a while. >> the reporting is out there, governor granholm. they're saying that the president likes her, he likes the way she represents her. >> i bet. >> the strength. what do you think of this? >> whatever. i mean, come on. the president likes her because she's loyal and what will he do? clear out the fox bureau and put them on his team? this ain't going to happen, chris. i mean, actually, i agree with rick on something which is that she is not going to be certainly

if she was appointed she would not be affirmed. lindsey graham said last week there would be holy hell to pay if jeff sessions were fired. plus, i mean she has a bit of whiff of scandal in the background, too. she tried to be attorney general of new york. and lost significantly to another cuomo. and there was a whole series of issues around her background and raised in that. this is not going to happen. >> how about, rick, the idea of needing people like you, voices within the party, to call out to the president and his team to say, stop doing this? stop putting this out there. stop undercutting our own, stop trying to pit people against one another? how come you guys don't say that? >> well, i think i have said that and i -- >> not tonight. >> many times, unfortunately. well, i think i did say that jeff sessions, agreed with you, jeff sessions doing a good job. look.

i don't agree with everything jeff has done and i think made a mistake on recusing himself and agree with the president and since attorney general he's done his job and he's done it in spite of the criticism. i don't know too many people to put up with that. as you said, he's very strong support on capitol hill. and the opportunity for, you know, for making a decision on jeff sessions before not after he was nominated and it's time for the president to move on and focus on getting a peace treaty with north korea. >> all right. next topic. >> i can't believe rick -- >> go ahead. if you can't believe something i want to know it. >> i just can't believe you would say that he did the wrong thing in recusing himself. it was like the one good decision that jeff sessions has made since being attorney general. he's -- i mean, jeanine pirro calls him the most dangerous man in america and for immigrants

and other people he is but that was the one thing he did that was right. >> you disagree because? >> well look. i never -- first i don't believe in special counsels. i think they're exactly what we have seen here. they're a complete and utter distraction. 99% of the time the thing that's investigated is never the thing that's being -- ends up being prosecuted. it becomes a witch hunt for anything that is -- you know, happens to be in the public square at the time. it's just -- it's a bad idea. we should trust our justice department. we should trust our fbi. we should have an open process. without leaks and people should be given, you know, the opportunity to be able to do their jobs in the justice department instead of making a political circus with special counsels are. >> the leaks are the least of the problem. something else. north korea. jennifer granholm, the president says i don't need to prepare that much. mostly about attitude. good answer? >> come on. oh my god. so, if i took the bar --

>> that's the bumper sticker on the back of the president's vehicle. >> ridiculous! i mean, come on. i'm going to take the bar exam, i'm going to go in and pass it with attitude? i go and take a final exam and pass it with attitude? attitude without preparation is losing. i want -- there's millions of people's lives on the line here and he is going to not do the preparation necessary? he doesn't read the briefings. he stays in the executive suite until 11:00 watching fox news. never presided over a national security council meeting in preparation for a country unstable and potentially launch nuclear weapons? without preparation? i want a president who is prepared. you can have attitude but be prepared. >> rick, he can just wing it. that's how you are in the art of the deal. win it with your eyes. >> i think the president will be fully prepared in the matters

that are going to be at the level that he's having the discussion. i think that what -- i think the president's probably referring to is that all the minutia, vitally important, will be worked out by people that frankly you and jennifer and i feel comfortable working them out. national security folks. and they're the ones doing the details. donald trump is going to -- is going to take his cues from those people. and -- >> taking them from them when he said to trudeau -- every day seems like a year right now. he says to the pm of canada, didn't you guys burn down the white house? don't you think a straight line like that out of the seat of ignorance could be very unsettling? >> the straight lines -- the straight lines that have come out in the north korea negotiation over the past year and a half got us where we are today. i think the straight loins and the unpredictability of the

president have really shaken north korea to the point where they're sitting down like they had never decided to do before. >> shaken us? they've been dying to do this for generations and you know that. and you know that so many diplomats and people who understand these issues far better than i will ever said you've given them everything they've ever wanted. a man that kills his own family, denies the people freedoms, took our own and sent them back almost dead in the form of otto warmbier and now parody with the president of the united states. what do you mean you got them right where you want them? we'll see what deal they cut, but, rick, come on, you've given them everything they wanted. >> first off, there's no deal. i truly believe that ginn the advisers, the president's own, you know, hard edge coming to negotiation, as well as the pretty hard liners around him on this negotiation, that i don't

think north korea's going to get benefit out of this unless they do something that's verifiable and immediate. >> you say that. one hard liner -- >> people concerned about -- >> one hard liner named bolton, saying the name it echos now. why? because he's gone. he said libya model, a show of strength, jennifer, and now he is out. why? they don't want do go that way. what did we hear from the president yesterday? sweet letter, nice letter. come to the white house and cookies and milk on me. let's be very clear. do you believe that this is the rudy giuliani theory of why this is happening, that they're begging for this meeting in korea because they're so scared? >> are you asking me? >> well, yes, jennifer granholm. >> well no. no worries. i think that -- that giving kim jong-un this legitimacy is a huge gift to him. i think that is true. donald trump going into this

meeting without being prepared is a sign, a, of laziness, and, b, complete ego. but what rick said is we would be comfortable with the people who are negotiating this. which means that the summit itself is really going to be nothing but a greeting. it is going to be a wash of a formal meeting and the president isn't going to do a negotiation. it's going to be perhaps a series of meetings where he kicks off a hello, little greeting and somebody else does the work. frankly, as rick said, i would much prefer that than him in the meeting and shooting off his mouth without having done the preparation. >> here's the problem. i can sit here and say it's wrong for him to say he doesn't want to be prepared. quick lines won't get it done and treating the press and treating different freedoms in this country. you know what? the proof is in the polls. rick, the president is up in the most recent poll. at about the same level as obama before the midterms.

up from 39%. so, what is working for him? obviously, the things that we criticize him for aren't affecting the poll. >> no, look. people are saying that their lives are better. that's always americans vote with their pocketbook and see unemployment as was mentioned lows. contrary to what bernie sanders said, you're right. wages increased since the obama administration. they were flat for the entire term of president obama. in fact, declined originally but now up and increasing. .3%. one of the largest in recent memory. you know, people are seeing real economic benefits from president trump's policies. think like the fact he is fighting. i know republicans and democrats alike are concerned about the tariff fights but i think americans like the idea to fight with the chinese and others to protect our markets and to protect our workers so all of these things just i think are sort of hitting stride for him

right now and more work to do. i think bernie's plan he laid out in the earlier segment in the idea of the democrats to make health care number one issue going into this election is a huge liability for the this president if they don't do anything. if they run on health care and we just ignore it, i think that's a huge problem for the president come -- >> especially after chopping up the mandate and now going to be blamed for people for premium pop. we'll see how that battle plays out. >> yeah. i don't -- i don't think it's the big reason premium going up but a legitimate thing to attack republicans on. >> make the case and the democrats will. jennifer? this is bad for you. this is bad for you, though. >> no, no. >> the poll numbers. >> we know that -- polls go up and down and one thing consistency is that he's underwater and why is he underwater? look at the poll you're referring to, the interesting part of it to me is that by a margin of 25% people want to see

in the upcoming midterms, people who are put in power to check this president. democrats on the generic ballot, the number is up 10% or winning by 10%. yeah, the economy is getting better. this is a worldwide phenomenon. people may be crediting donald trump but the poll showed that his base is getting more and more in love with him and the rest of the country is not. and health care is the number one issue on people's minds. so this is not -- i mean, the poll, so he ticks up a couple in job favoritability but if the intensity of the democrats is 15 points higher which it is, than republicans, then republicans have a lot to be concerned about but the bottom line for our team is don't listen to the polls at all. get out and work your butts off. >> well, second problem for you is what you're about as a party. it is always interesting to me

that i think senator sanders still has to be at the top of the cull in terms of who you put out for president and he won't join your party. you know? is there a little bit of concern within the ranks that the people who are doing well around the country aren't running as regular democrats? they're running as locale specific. joe manchin. west virginia senator open to voting for trump if he like it is policies in 2020. that's a new reality for your party, is it not? >> there is no litmus test to be a democrat. what we care about -- >> don't vote for the other guy for president? isn't a test for your party? cares about health care for people. he cares about affordable housing for his people. having jobs and wages. >> opioids. >> honestly, if you asked these democrats in the local democratic party meetings they are not even talking about trump. they're talking about what is

important to them on the ground. which is health care, et cetera. i'm here, talking to you from dallas. here, i mean, people really do care about whether they're able to put their -- to get their child some health care if there's an emergency. >> it is. it is huge. >> health care. who will make the best deal? we'll see. jennifer granholm -- >> donald trump threw 32 million people off. we are just saying, democrats are going to be energized. >> that's just -- that's just not -- not even close to being true, jennifer. >> we'll be talking about health care a ton. it is a priority on the show. rick, appreciate you being here. jennifer, as always. all right. time to tangle with a sticky subject. the credibility crisis in the white house and the war with the media. a celebrated trump insider is going to join us next to argue that blaming the press is the secret to winning. next.

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dynamic of the white house and media sucks. look. proof of performance was last night in part. i wanted to give sarah sanders a chance for a positive pivot. admit the obvious. there was deception surrounding president trump's role in the response to that russia meeting. instead, she chose a path that's very familiar, attack the messenger. i'll all for productive confrontation. that's what #let's get after it is all about but this dynamic of lie, deny and then vilify the media is getting us nowhere so here's my question. does the trump white house actually like this and think it is working for them? the president's former campaign manager corey lewandowski is here. appreciate you taking the opportunity. >> appreciate you having me, chris. >> you help me make sense of this situation. here it is. >> not your lawyer, a president's lawyer.

you're saying he didn't dictate this. he did what any father would do. that turns out not to be true. you agree with that? >> once again, i know -- i answered this question on monday. i answered it on tuesday. and i'm going to answer it the same way today and you probably won't like it more on wednesday than it sounds like you liked it on monday or tuesday but this is a legal matter. >> one, corey, it's not a legal matter. not what she said. she said isn't a legal matter. sekulow doesn't represent her. i don't think she has counsel. unless you know differently. why doesn't she say here's what changed. i wish that we had corrected it sooner. all of the typical rational answers. >> you know, i don't speak for anyone in the white house, chris, as you know. but i think probably what sarah was trying to do when she relayed the information originally when she was asked and we have seen this now on more than one occasion is sometimes the forward-facing

department of the white house doesn't have all the information and does their best job to give the information they have at the time and my guess without having spoken to her about the issue was the information that she provided to the media at the press briefing way back whenever it was a year ago now about this particular topic was the best information she had at the time and now a memorandum written in january of this year saying something different from the previous and continued member of the president's legal team. but now rudy giuliani who is a member of that legal team come out and said that that memorandum was either inaccurate or the statements made previously inaccurate and corrected. >> right. that's not exactly -- that's not exactly right. rudy says them not getting it right was a mistake. not a lie. in fact, he swore to god in jerusalem to that fact which i had to worn him that could carry more stink on it than ordinary. but so -- >> 4,000 years of history over there.

>> that's exactly right. not that this is an open question. they said he had nothing to do with it and then something to do it and then wound up at everything to do with it. somebody's lying because there's no way that the people close to the president let alone in that plane going on didn't know his role. but all i'm saying is this. you don't want to cop to a lie. i get it. this white house, corey, they never admit a mistake. and when they're confronted with anything that's been said that's wrong let alone a lie they just attack you. like happened last night. you really think that's winning? >> you know, chris, but you have to play both sides. look, we have seen a disproportionate amount of wrong reporting on this administration. from multiple outlets. from, you know, just last week i had the privilege of traveling with the president to tennessee. reporter said there's 1,000 people in the arena and after the fire marshall said not only were you inaccurate but off by a

factor of five was there a correction made and that's because the media was wrong. >> good example. >> here's the problem with that, chris. think about for one second, if the president would have said that the number of people inside the arena was over exaggerated by a factor of five, the media and so look, i think it's fair to say there's been multiple occasions, like your previous guest, jennifer granholm, the former governor, said the president is not prepared for the meeting in north korea. she has no way to know this is a fact. >> the former governor of michigan is saying that because that's what trump said. i'm not going to prepare that much. i love your example of tennessee. that reporter went back on in public and said, i was wrong.

i misreported. it was a mistake. tell me when the president has done that. put up a graphic of the lies. these are the recent ones because i didn't have enough data in the system to put them all down. what has he said, i was wrong? i apologize? i shouldn't have said it? >> here's the problem, chris, it is on both sides. i remember the day that he was sworn in and the "time" magazine reporter said that the bust of martin luther king was removed from the oval office. >> this is what i'm saying -- >> 6,000 outhlets said he was racist because of that. >> maybe the reporting was intentional. i'll give you every benefit of the facts. it does nothing to remove the responsibility from the president of the united states and a white house from telling the truth and owning when it does not. your argument is very simple. other people do it, too.

not good enough. you have to own your stuff. and they never do. this lie about the response to trump tower is perfect proof of that. >> but chris, this administration has given more time than any other administration -- >> what does that have to do about lying? >> they give information all the time. people make mistakes all the time. >> and they won't own it when it is corrected for them. >> you don't think that's wrong? >> chris, chris, people make mistakes all the time. in their job, particularly figures. when al gore said -- >> you're supposed to own it. >> do you remember when al gore said a leopard can't change his stripes. do you remember when joe biden asked a man in a wheelchair to stand up? >> you can't just keep saying

other people do it, too. they get called out. joe biden was chased and had to admit when he was wrong. so does al gore. so did obama. so does everybody except this man in your estimation. and that's why -- >> that's not true. chris, chris -- >> you have never said the president should go out and apologize for this. the president should admit it, never. you always say somebody else did something else. false equivalency, is what we call it. that's why people who watch this show -- not all, but some -- will say oh, you're having him on? you're having her on. all they do is lie and spin. they never tell the truth about anything did you. don't have them on anymore. is that's where we've arrived. this is unhealthy. it's unproductive. you know they weren't telling the truth about what happened on that plane. why not just call it out. your integrity. >> chris, chris, look, look, look, i had nothing to do -- i wasn't on the plane. >> but you know that jay sekulow went from saying he had nothing to do with it to saying he dictated it. >> when you have him on, you can ask him about it. >> he won't come on, that's the point. you can say they got it wrong,

they should admit it. cory, just say that. they got it wrong, they should admit it. >> chris, chris, you know what i want to talk about. i want to talk about what the american people care about. here's what we know. going into election day of 2016, the mainstream media, this channel included, all predicted that donald trump was going to lose at 5:00. and the american -- >> so that makes everything he's done since okay? final word. >> the media was lying. >> the media wasn't lying. they were wrong. the difference between a mistake and a lie is knowing the truth and being deceptive about it. >> chris, where was the apology from the mainstream media for noin months that donald trump was going to lose. >> what i just did, he's never done it. 100 times we said we were wrong. that point was not your strongest of the night. i appreciate you being here. i may be ridiculously optimistic, but we've got to keep talking. we need productive dialogue. >> we'll do that. >> take care. don lemon with a preview

tonight. if i was shaking my i head as much as you could right now -- >> you should have seen me. >> they won't admit any flaw. >> i am one of those people who asks you, chris, why do you waste your time, an apologist is always going to be an apologist. >> i don't think it's a waste of time, but i hear you. >> a spinner is going to spin and a liar is going to lie. kim kardashian west told our very own van jones how she worked her way from ivanka trump to jared kushner to donald trump to get that pardon. she says she is just getting started. some critics wonder if she's being used as a pawn and others as well to legitimize this president. >> that's a good one. when we come back, there was a moment from last night and there's an ugly truth hidden therein. we're going to expose it for you next.

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>> when sarah sanders tried to dunk my questions last night by taking a shot at cnn for not covering the entire veterans event at the white house it bothered me, and here's why. not only did cnn recently win all kinds of awards for showing the problems at the veterans administration, not only do we cover veterans issues so consistently and consistently that the head of one of the biggest veterans organizations, the iava, a group that was boxed out of that trump photo op for not being nice enough to him apparently tweeted this today. you look up there and it's just saying she's wrong. but the criticism spoke to a larger hypocrisy. if they care so much about veterans, then instead of just trotting out our heroes when it is easy, do what is hard. put in a v.a. secretary. use your dealmaking might and