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this drama, what dhs secretary nielsen called today a country of compassion and heart, so we begin tonight keeping them honest with how the trump administration can reconcile that claim with images like these. and sounds like these. those are children crying waiting for the parents they have been taken from. the audio obtained by pro publica. we don't know what facility it was recorded in. this is not separation anxiety, this is separation. real trauma. in just a moment, we'll be joined by a pediatrician. her organization has written several letters now to dhs calling for this to stop. it stems by a decision by the president to enforce longstanding immigration law in a way that neither his democratic nor republican predecessors did, if part because it could lead to this.

it was, as we reported and as members of the administration openly stated when they were actually selling this policy, a deliberate choice, yet now when faced with the continue quesequ it, the bipartisan uproar against it, the response from trump on down has been to deny responsibility and shift the blame. >> and i say it's very strongly the democrats' fault. they're obstructionists. we are obstructing. we're stuck with these horrible laws. horrible laws. what's happening is so sad. it's so sad. and it can be taken care of quickly, beautifully, and we'll have safety. this could really be something very special. it could be something maybe even for the world to watch. >> something very special. well, the world is definitely watching and they are reacting.

former first lady laura bush in the "washington post" said, i quote, "i live in a border state, i appreciate the need to enforce and protect our international boundaries, but this zero tolerance policy is cruel. it is immoral and breaks my heart." she continues, "these images are eerily reminiscent of the japanese american internment camps of world war ii, considered to be one of the most shameful episodes in history. former first lady michelle obama weighing in as well and citing laura bush and tweeting "sometimes truth transends party." roslyn carter said, "it is disgraceful and a shame to our country." condemning what's been done, including texas senator ted cruz late today. >> all of us who are seeing these images of children being pulled away from moms and dads in tears were horrified.

this has to stop. kids need their moms and dads. >> the president says he hates this. he hates what's happening. yet he and his top officials refuse to take responsibility for the policy decision that they in fact made happen. in fact, late today, the dhs secretary would not even concede the existence of a policy. listen. >> this administration did not create a policy of separating families at the border. >> so keeping them honest, secretary nielsen seems to be splitting hairs, no, the administration did not literally create a policy to specifically tear children from their parents. it created a zero-tolerance policy that resulted in children being torn from their parents. what's more, they were okay with that. in fact, touting it as a deterrent to child smuggling. listen to chief of staff john kelly, then-dhs secretary, when asked about it in march of last year. >> if you get some young kids who are coming in, manage to sneak into the united states with their parents, our department of homeland security

personnel going to separate the children from their moms and dads? >> we have tremendous experience with dealing with unaccompanied minors. we turn them over. they do a good job of putting them in foster care or linking them up with parents or family members in the united states. yes, i am considering in order to deter more movement along this terribly dangerous network, i am considering exactly that. >> so in order to deter people from bringing their kids. so what the administration decided was to try each and every unauthorized border crosser in criminal court under existing law which hasn't been done before and because parents charged with crimes can't be detained alongside their kids, families would have to be split up. again, keeping them honest, this was a policy decision and intention at least in part was to send a message. to act as you just heard kelly say as a deterrent. when asked today about something general kelly was on record

saying in 2017, secretary nielsen seemed or acted offended. >> are you intending for this to play out the way it's played out, are you intending to send a message? >> i find that offensive. >> so what was a talking point in march is now offensive to even ask about. a white house policy, that's not a policy, it's democrats refusing to change a law that contains nothing actually mandating the breakup of families. here's how senator ben sasse put it, "the administration's decision to separate families is a new discretionary choice. anyone saying that their hands are tied or the only conceivable way to fix the problem of catch and release is to rip families apart is flat wrong." a discretionary choice, he said, yet the administration will neither own it nor odd mitt wad we're seeing at detention centers is even happening at all. >> how is this not child abuse?

>> be more specific, please, enforcing the law? >> the images and the sounds we've seen from big box stores, walmarts, other stores. when you see this, how is this not specifically child abuse for these innocent children who are, indeed, being separated from their parents? are there any examples of child abuse, do you believe, and how could this not be child abuse for the people who are taken from their parents? not the ones who are sent here with their parents' blessings, with the smugglers, the people who are taken from their parents? >> unfortunately, i'm not in any position to deal with hearsay stories. >> hearsay stories. m more now from a white house under fire from all corners. cnn's jeff zeleny who asked that last question joins us now. you tried to press secretary nielsen on the up to 2,000 kids taken from their parents as you said, not ones brought here or sent by their families with smugglers. what else did she say about it? >> reporter: anderson, that's about all she said about it

right there, she cesaid i can't react to hearsay stories. if any specific examples come to us, we'll look into it. the whole idea the secretary would not acknowledge today is, indeed, the idea, the images and sounds that transfixed the country on this. she would not acknowledge that this is, indeed, playing out. and she quickly tried to change the subject. you know, when i was asking just a simple question about child abuse, she said she simply couldn't answer that. then changed the subject to the fact that there are all the children brought over here smuggled sort of with the blessing of their parents. on the specific case, she said she has visited those detention centers and they're treated well, but on the specific examples of the images that we've seen in mcallen, texas, and other sites across the border, she simply didn't have an answer. and there was a sense, as she stood in the briefs room, anderson, that all of these answers came without much

humanity or emotion. you heard senator ted cruz there, republican of texas, he's on the ballot in texas. he was saying it's heart wrenching to see these images. that is one thing we did not hear today from the white house. any sense of the fact, never mind the policy that these im e images and the sheer fact that this is heart wrenching. the message was congress needs to fix it, it's the democrats' fault. she came out here andanderson. >> the white house kept pushing the briefing later and later. why did that occur? >> reporter: the white house briefing was supposed to be at 1:15. ended up happening four hours later around 5:15 or so. the reality is secretary nielsen is running the front of the house on this, taking the lead on this. white house press secretary sarah sanders kid not, we're told, want to address these questions all by herself because they wanted someone with more gravitas, if you will, someone with more specific information on all of the specifics ofborde.

secretary nielsen was in new orleans giving a speech earlier today again saying the administration is not backing down. . she flew back here to washington, arrived around 1:30 or so, had a series of briefings throughout the afternoon and then finally the white house was ready to have this briefing. anderson, it was an example of the fact that this communications system here was in breakdown. the white house was a lot of anger in this building, they're hearing republicans, democrats, evangelicals, you know, the former first lady, laura bush, who never weighs in on things like this, they were figuring out how to react to the criticism so they left it to secretary nieceson at the end of the day. she didn't clear up the questions, anderson. the president, of course, going to capitol hill tomorrow where many republicans have questions of their own. >> yeah, jeff zeleny, thanks very much. there's new cnn polling on the policy showing widespread disapproval, 67% among all voters, however, among just republicans it's far different with 58% saying they approve the

zero tolerance policy. spoke about this earlier with congressman will herd, a republican of texas. congre congressman, secretary nielsen said this administration does not have, did not create a policy of separating families at the border. why does this administration refuse to take responsibility for what is inarguably their policy? it's based from the zero tolerance policy. . >> yeah, it's a question to me as well, anderson, and something that if there is a homeland hearing, i'm looking forward to asking just that question because it's very clear that it's within department of justice, it's within dhs' ability to not separate kids from their parents. and so acting as if this is something that congress is preventing from happening is just incorrect and it's something that this administration could change right away. >> sectary nielsen said congress alone can fix that. i mean, you said obviously this

administration, the president, could change their policy. this is by their discretion you're doing this. >> you're absolutely right. they also could be focusing more atteion on working with el salvador and nicaragua and honduras on addressing some of the root causes in those countries that is causing this migration. she talked in her press conference about the increase of folks that are coming to this country illegally. i think part of that is because of the violence that's happening in central america. we see an increase in that. i think it's compatible. they need to be talking about why when they made this decision of zero tolerance, what did they think was going to happen? because we haven't seen a decrease in illegal immigration coming into our country. and what other alternatives did they look at before they accepted this policy? there's a whole lot of questions. i also don't know if doj, dhs, and hhs are talking to each other.

the way they should. i experienced that over the weekend when i went to see a facility in my district. >> well, what do you say to secretary nielsen or the president who says look, this is a deterrence. this is going to deter people. from making the dangerous journey with their children and trying to cross over illegally. and in effect, while it's terrible to see, long term, this is actually going to be better for kids because it's going to essentially prevent parents from making that trip. >> taking a 4-year-old out of his or her mommy's arms is not going to prevent terrorist or drugs from coming in this country. if we've already seen a net increase in illegal immigration since last summer, it's not stopping illegal immigration. what we need to be doing is focus on root causes and increase the amount of immigration judges that are working so we can decrease the amount of time we have people in

detention. we need to make sure we have smart border policies and then we need to make sure that we're doing this in a bipartisan way. i think that's the only way we solve this problem and we also need to remember, and i said this a bunch of times, and snd, in the land of the free and the home of the brave, we don't use kids as a deterrent. >> according to cnn's latest poll, 58% republicans support this change of policy toward immigrant families, undocumented people crossing over. what does that say to you about where your party is right now? obviously, you are republican, but you, you know, your district is -- you have more border than anybody else. >> well, what i'm seeing on the ground is the exact opposite. i'm seeing on the ground people that are appalled by this. people that have been republicans all their lives, independents as well. so i can't speak to any of the national polling, but i do know in the 23rd congressional district of texas, the supermajority of people believe this is something that shouldn't

happen and shouldn't be continuing. >> the president of the american academy of pediatrics earlier today described the separation of families as a form of child abus. do you agree with this? is that a form of child abuse? >> i'm not a doctor but seen the same reports that separating kids unnaturally from their parents have long-term effects on their development, on their growth and that's something we should not be doing. >> where do you think this ends? is there a scenario where the president picks up a phone and ends this policy? as it's in his power to do or will it come down to congress to try to fix this? >> look, i hope the president comes to a realization that this is something that should end. i'm glad there's voices out there like laura bush and anthony scaramucci talking about how this policy should change. it's unfortunate that we have to even debate whether a law needs to be put in place to say let's not use children as a deterrence

and let's not separate kids from their mother and father. >> congressman, i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. a lot more to come on this including we'll talk to a pediatrician on the kind of trauma that kids on the border are experiencing when separated from their parents. we'll have more on how that recording was taken. also later the russia story, these two failed to tell congress about a certain encounter with a russian during the campaign. what they're saying now, when we continue.

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>> just want to repeat, the recording is propropublica. we don't know what facility it was recorded at. the images you saw there on the right. those images are provided by custom and border protection. a pediatrician who's seen firsthand the consequences of the trauma these kids can be experiencing, she chairs the immigrant health special interest group, the american academy of pediatrics.

dr. linton, can you just describe what the short-term or long-term effects of this kind of separation could be on children? >> absolutely. so what we know is that highly stressful experiences like separation of children from their parents could cause irreparable harm to children. in the short term, we might see things like changes in bodily functions. so difficulty sleeping, difficulty eating, changes with toileting. we might see changes in their behavior, so we might see aggression, or we might see anxiety and we might also see changes in their memory or their ability to learn and to develop. in the long term, we know that highly stressful experiences place children at risk for things like diabetes and heart disease and depression. >> it can have that kind of a long-term impact? >> absolutely. when you think of what kind of stress children are faced with being in centers like detention

centers and processing centers which i've seen with my own eyes, that in itself is profoundly traumatizing to a child and then when you take away the protective support of the parent, you place that child in one of the most stressful experiences that i can imagine and you take away the ability to buffer that support with the love, comfort and protection of a parent. >> earlier tonight, the homeland security secretary nielsen was asked whether or not this amounted to child abuse. i just want to play part of what she said. >> we have high standards. we give them meals. we give them education. we give them medical care. there's videos. there's tvs. i visited the detention centers myself. >> i'm wondering what goes through your mind when you hear that. >> as a pediatrician, i know that taking a child away from his or her loving parent threatens the health and

will well been wellbeing of that child. you can play a video in front of a child who is profoundly traumatized, and all they want is mommy, they are not going to watch the video. when you take a child and put them if a situation where they are faced with cage-like fencing, faced in situations where they are so frightened, all they want is that love and protection of the parent. >> the president of your organization reported when she visited one of these shelters that the shelter workers couldn't touch, pick up, or hold the children. they couldn't console them, which is the rule. i presume that's in order to prevent some kind of abuse. to not be able to console a suffering child who's been away from their parent, that just seems kind of stunning. >> i agree. it's profoundly stunning and we are traumatizing these children in two ways, through the trauma

of detention, which is not a substitute for not separating parents from their children, and then the worst trauma imaginable, which is taking that child away from a parent. to not allow that child to have the comfort and the protection of anyone is child abuse. >> dr. linton, i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you, anderson. we heard tonight from the white house, from politicians and childhood trauma experts. coming up, we're going to take you to the southern border and conversations with those families on the ground still desperate to come to the united states. never mind the dangers. ♪ ♪ ♪ raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens ♪ ♪ bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens ♪ ♪ brown paper packages tied up with strings ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ ♪ ♪

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for president trump, the issue of children belonging to undocumented immigrants being separated from their parents at the southern border came down to one thing which is politics, pure and simple. >> immigration is the fault in all of the problems we're having. we cannot get them to sign legislation. we cannot get them to the negotiating table. i say strongly, the democrats' fault. they're obstructionist. they are obstructing. the united states will not be a migrant camp, and it will not be a refugee holding facility. won't be. >> for those families on the ground desperate to enter the united states, politics is the last thing on their minds. "360's" gary tuchman tonight is on the border. gary? >> reporter: anderson, i'm standing in mexico, 20 feet

behind me behind this gate is the state of arizona and the united states. the people on this line right here have passports. documentation. they can go in and out at will. but the people here are migrants. who have traveled hundreds of miles. they're with their children. they're hoping to get an interview inside and they're hoping if they get that interview, that their children aren't taken away. in the border town of nogales, mexico, the other side of this gate is the united states. and right next to the gate sitting on the ground are migrant families. living and sleeping outside hoping to be allowed to proceed just a few more feet into america. amalia is from guatemala. her son, kevin, is 7, and the other 3. what do you want to say to the united states? the 29-year-old mother says "i want to go protect my children and have a better life for them." amalia says she fears for her life in guatemala because of

gang violence. as other people with passports and documents passed through the gate, these migrant families wait and hope for what is known as a credible fear interview, with u.s. customs and border protection. they say only one person has been called in for an interview all day. she is from southern mexico and has three children with her. the 46-year-old says "i'm scared, my kids are all i have in my life. i live for them. i'm scared for them." half the mothers here heard about the children who have been separated from their parents after crossing into the united states. each mother we talked with said they heard nothing about it weeks ago when they left their towns. miriam came from guatemala with her 2-year-old son, franco. the 23-year-old says "i am scared. i'm hearing rumors they could take my child away." amalia says there have been people telling me they're going to take our kids away, but i'm not sure." so why are these women willing to take such a risk?

amalia says "because if i go back, they're going to kill me, so this is the better option." the u.s. government claims children will not be taken away from parents who turn themselves in at legal ports of industry. many others including the aclu and immigrant advocacy groups dispute the claim. what doesn't bode well is the recent decision by the trump administration to overturn a recent decision about gang violence victims. i ask the u.s. custom and border protection officer on the other side of the gate this question. when do you start letting the migrants in for their interviews? >> we need to make sure we have enough assets to do it. my supervisors are working on it. if you want, you can go and ask the supervisor. >> reporter: okay. we did. the supervisor said they were not permitted to comment out of this office. the migrants mere who have been provided food, water and diapers by volunteers say they don't want to lose their place in line so they're not leaving.

miriam says she will not allow anybody to take her toddler away. what's happening now will not deter her, she says, and if she gets sent back to guatemala -- "i will come back," miriam says, "i want to be in the united states. i will come back again." >> so they're trying to cross at a point of entry where they can apply for asylum. a lot of people who are caught illegally crossing are not crossing at ports of entry where they can even apply. what happens after they apply? >> reporter: well, the problem, anderson, is applying in the first place. we heard the hhs secretary say today go to a legal port of entry. these people have. yet, today, not one person's been called inside this building for an sbriinterview. the women you saw in our story are still here. hello, miriam, over there in the purple. they're still here. no one is going in. yesterday one person went in. it they're doing it by the book.

no one is being called in for the interrue. for whatever reason, this is the first step of applying for asylum. >> thank you. the trump administration continues to insist congress could fix all this practically overnight. when we continue, has the situation become so politically radioactive solutions will with difficult, not impossible, to find? e. and get netflix included. so your family can watch what they love in more places. get an unlimited family plan with netflix on us. and right now, buy one samsung galaxy s9 and get one free. which is why i use armor tall ultra shine wash wipes.y. they effectively remove dirt, dust and grime with no water. that car is in tip top shape! we are both in tip top shape!

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more breaking news tonight. the woest woe"washington post" reporting that president trump is defiant in the crisis at the boa border, reading from a story, "at a reading with senator richard c. shelby, senator shell shel shelly moore-caputo. at the white house on monday. josh dawsey is joining us now.

josh, explain what you are reporting tonight that the president is closely monitoring news coverage of what's happening at the border. what's he been telling people in th his inner circle about what he's seeing? >> right, anderson, thanks for having me. on what the president has been saying is he -- he thinks he has been weak on immigration in recent months. here, could be problematic. sorry for the fire truck, anderson. and he says that, you know, he has to do what he can to keep this fight going. this afternoon he demanded the border wall in the oval office meeting. the issue of child separation merely came up. some of his advisers predicted this over the weekend, he may change course, videos and footage of children, all over television, promulgated everywhere. so far that's not occurred. one thing we've found today, a number of his aides have shown him more positive pictures of the children playing video games, exercising outside, not really images you've seen on tv

and that's been one reason they've been able to convince him that some of the coverage is unfair and suspicions of it. >> is it clear to you the extent to which the president is being swayed by those other images? i know you're reporting he's been shown some other ones. >> right. that's where we are right now. the dichotomy is this, inside the white house, you have a number of advisers, john kelly, who said this should be a deterrent. stephen miller who has embraced this adds a policy of the administration, argued for it forcefully. the president who so far has been unwilling to go for it but falsicale icallly claimed it's f the democrats. if the sustained coverage of this continues and the president hears from more and more republican allies. you noticed over the weekend, anderson, evangelical leaders who are normally with him publicly broke on this. you've seen some senators today, orrin hatch said today to us that the president can -- susan

collins said they thought it was amazing that kirstjen nielsen keeps saying it's on congress. a lot of the traditional flank with limb, kind of crumpling a little bit, whether that completely deteriorates on this issue will be key to whether the white house moves at all. >> all right, josh dawsey from the "washington post" posting that story. thanks for much. with us now is bakari sellers and jason miller. jason, you heard secretary nielsen earlier saying this is really up to congress to deal with. this isn't some policy put in by this administration. but, i mean, this is clearly, i mean, wouldn't you admit, a result of the zero-tolerance policy put in by this administration? >> certainly congress does assume some of the blame here. i think it's both republican and democrats assume some of the blame. president trump ran on these tough border policies during his campaign and known since he won the election this day was going to be coming. >> right. they only recently put in -- may

actually only recently put in this zero tolerance policy and you heard from the former secretary of homeland security who is now the chief of staff who said, yeah, he was thinking about doing it as a deterrence. so for the administration to say it's not being done as a deterrence, that's clearly how they were selling it up until recently. >> what i was saying is this, i think there are two parts of this. as a trump supporter, i'm ticked off yet again he's been let down here. congress should have fixed the catch and release loopholes. address that. dhs in a lot of ways dropped the ball with their implementation of this. they should have had the necessary judges and necessary administrators down at the border to be able to be ready for this surge that was going to be coming. i think they also needed to make sure they were doing a site-by-site scan of -- because they knew at a certain point the media and other people would be coming through and make sure all the different locations were up to snuff and taking a look at these and walk through the optics of everything.

as a trump supporter when i see congress dropping the ball, don't think dhs has done everything they needed to, it's a right policy but wrong i implementati implementation. this critical mass here. >> bakari, jason is saying the policy, itself, is the right policy. >> no, it's not. i don't know how anybody who's a father, anybody who believes in what the statue of liberty reads, believes in what the essence of america is can say this is the right policy. the white house has bumbled messages before. we've seen it. they came out and lied and said this is the law. you had surrogates say this is the law. you ask them what law are you talking about, no one can point to it. this is policy. policy implemented by one person and it can be changed with one phone call. here we are, we're praying that donald trump gets positive images of children, we're talking about kids, we're talking about human beings, playing in cages, smiling so that he may one day reverse course. that's what we're talking about here. it's a travesty. this is not who america is.

i understand having a hardline approach on immigration, but this is exactly who donald trump is. and i am disappointed that we weren't able to connect the dots. he talks about people being aliens, talks about people being animals and treats them as such. the problem we're having here now, the outcry is he's treating the least of these. he's treating kids like pure trash and that's not what america is. >> i got to take a break, but jas jason, we'll have you respond and continue this discussion when we come back. also we'll get reaction from -- we'll play the reaction from senator john mccain who just tweeted on this. we'll bring you that ahead. when you're particular, you want things done right. that's why we test all of our paints and stains for months. or even years. we dedicate 175,000 square feet to getting it wrong... ...because you deserve paint that's done right. that's proudly particular. benjamin moore.

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more breaking news. senator john mccain just weighed in on policy the white house still insists is not a policy. he tweets, "the administration's current family separation policy is an affront to the decency of the american people and contrary to principles and values upon which our nation was founded. the administration has the power to rescind this policy. it should do so now." back with the panel. bakari sanders, jason miller. your take on that. again, i mean, i know you point to congress and say it's a failure of dhs to kind of have

all their ducks in a row before they start this policy. this is, i mean, do you agree that this is a policy that the administration, itself, could reverse? the president could just decide to do what prior administrations did which is, i know he says is kicking the can down the road, but to not have the zero-tolerance policy? >> my understanding is it does need a congressal fix to get this done. it's also something, it's not like we have to sit around wondering who's going to come up with the legislation. ted cruz has something that addresses a lot of this that will keep families together as they're going through the process. obviously, after they're arrested when they're trying to enter the country illegally. i think through some of this, we're losing sight of the bigger picture here. that we are a country of laws. unfortunately we can't allow just everybody in the entire world to come in whenever they want. we have to go and actually start enforcing some of these laws. now, if we built the wall or

start building the wall, obviously that will go and help. i think what the ted cruz legislation will do is keep families together as they go through the process and return them back to their country. we can't have an open border, otherwise we're going to completely lose our sovereignty as a nation. this is an actual real crisis down at the border. you look at the impact not just to the families trying to come across, what happens to them, whether it be through the coyotes or other things that we're seeing with the children, you look at the impact obviously with the gang members. look at drug traffickers. and all the bad people that are coming through. this is a real crisis at our southern border and i feel like we're being a little poly anna and playing pick and choose on what crises we want to talk about. >> we're talking about 2,000 children in detention in wire mesh cages, chain-link cages essentially. obviously, there are gang issues but there are 2,000 kids and those are real. >> that's why i said i think this -- this could be dealt with very quickly. i think the president does want

to have a humane solution to this. obviously you can't let everybody into the country that wants to come in especially illegally. congress can move fact. i think the administration can move fact here and zeal wideal this. this isn't as difficult as other challenges we face. we >> bakari, what the administration says is that people should come in at legal entries and apply for asylum. hardly anyone is allowed to apply for political asylum. >> donald trump has closed the door. you can look at the policy that jeff sessions implemented last week cutting off victims and women who are victims of domestic abuse and rape and violent crimes are actually gaining asylum here in the united states of america. so you have a very hard line approach. but i think jason and many

people in the trump administration are conflating the issue. we have a larger immigration discussion that needs to be had, but right now donald trump is causing a humanitarian crisis. falling back on this line that we are a nation of laws, yeah, true, but we're also a nation of immigrants. i think this administration fails to realize that and forgets it conveniently often. we had a problem that donald trump can fix tonight. donald trump can pick up the phone, resend this policy, speak to his secretary at hhs and -- or excuse me, homeland security, and make sure that these children are not taken away, ripped away from their family. and look, we're supposed to be the beacon of light for the rest of the world to follow, and we have kids in the united states of america eating off the floor in cages, and we have trump and trump surrogates that want to excuse it. it's mind-boggling this is where we've come. >> mark, what the supporters of his policy will say is, look, you can't let everyone who wants in the united states in the united states, and if you allow

these families with their children to come in, it's going to encourage more people to make a dangerous journey and this is, in fact, a deterrent which long term may be better for kids because it prevents people from trying to make that dangerous journey. >> i hate to integrate facts in that discussion, because yes, that is an argument people make, but this policy doesn't even work. while we're destroying our global image while we're actually ruining young people's lives, children's lives, putting them in harm's way, we have a policy that doesn't even work. it's proven to be flawed. >> you think there was no crisis until now? you think the ms-13 and the drug traffickers and the human traffickers, you think none of that was happening until now? >> with all due respect, mason, these kids are not ms-13. these kids are not animals. these kids are children, jason. so when you're talking about this issue, we have an ms-13 gang problem in the united states of america.

that's one issue. but don't try to put the audience in a pretzel conflating the fact that we have kids there, and the president of the united states, your former boss, calls this a humanitarian crisis and he can fix it. >> i get that you don't like the zero tolerance policy, we can't have a 100% tolerance policy. that's why they're losing on this. chris cuomo comes up in a few minutes on "cuomo prime time." hi, chris. >> it's clear the president doesn't want to, he favors this. the polls suggest he's right. he's got republicans moving his way on this issue. the problem is they have every two or three other people in the country against him. tonight he has his great defender coming on the show, "prime time." kellyanne conway will be here to make the case. we also have what the democrats will do, and we're going to have a debate of our own tonight. two on one.

both chairs will be filled with people who say this is the right policy. coming up, roger stone missed a meeting that he did not admit to when asked under oath about meeting with russians. we'll explain ahead. ♪ raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens ♪ ♪ bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens ♪ ♪ brown paper packages tied up with strings ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ ♪ now that i'm on my way ♪ do you still think i'm crazy standing here today ♪ ♪ i couldn't make you love me applebee's 2 for $20, now with steak. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood.

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they said they forgot to tell congressional investigators about it. this is not sitting well with democrats. here's what mr. caputo said about all of this tonight. >> this was something that i didn't remember and answered to a question that where i should have responded to this, i said not that i recall. i do recall now -- i recalled it when i was preparing for my testimony before the senate intelligence committee and the mueller team on may 1st and 2nd just last month. >> in a letter to congress, the trump confidante offered dirt from the clinton administration for $2 million.

from candidate trump. the congressman said he declined that offer. we have gloria borger. >> all we know is that he organized a meeting with roger stone. henry green burg. who spoke with a thick russian accent. with roger stone. roger stone meets with him, according to roger stone, and the guy says i've got this dirt on hillary clinton if you'll pay me $2 million for it. we know from the text messages that were exchanged between caputo and stone that stone kind of dismissed him. and of course, this was first reported in the "washington post" over the weekend with stone saying, sorry, donald trump doesn't spend $2 million on anything. >> if nothing came of this, stone's lawyer is arguing, from the lawyer's letter, it's another example of a person associated with the trump campaign meeting with the

russians seeking damaging information or offering damaging information on hillary clinton. >> right. by our count, there are 14 trump associates who have met with russians, and, you know, the attorney is saying -- and he had to send a letter amending the testimony, of course, but the attorney is saying, and these two men are saying, look, it turned out to be nothing. what we do know for a fact, anderson, though, is that russians were knocking on every door they could possibly knock on, and they didn't get a lot of resistance from a lot of folks in being willing to meet with them or collect dirt on hillary clinton. we know that from the donald trump jr. meeting in trump tower, of course. >> so this was only revealed after mueller had the text messages and asked caputo about it, correct? >> michael caputo said he only had it when his lawyer was reviewing text messages, but he was asked about it in early may