i'm a small business, but i have... big dreams... and big plans. so how do i make the efforts of 8 employees... feel like 50? how can i share new plans virtually? how can i download an e-file? virtual tours? zip-file? really big files? in seconds, not minutes... just like that.

like everything... the answer is simple. i'll do what i've always done... dream more, dream faster, and above all... now, i'll dream gig. now more businesses, in more places, can afford to dream gig. comcast, building america's largest gig-speed network. geeng. thanks for joining us. we begin tonight with political and policy confusion and the children suffering as a result of it. yesterday president trump signed that executive order to solve a problem that he himself created some 2300 kids taken from their parents at the border now scattered to all corners of this country. he promised it would end family separation. then we were told it won apply to the kids already in custody, the ones who'd been separated, then later that would, and today on capitol hill more confusion from dhs secretary kirstjen nielsen. asked about how families will actually be reunited she said there was a plan in place.

>> we have a plan to do that. we do have the back end. hhs reuniting as quickly as we can. >> keeping them honest, her answer seemed to refer to current procedures, which require parents to call government hotlines to locate their kids. she also appeared to be referring to the thousands of unaccompanied minors in custody, not the recently separated 2,300 kids. as for them, we've gotten no clear plan nor apparently has the department of health and human services. a spokesperson telling cnn they are "awaiting further guidance on the implementation of the executive order." so mixed signals on the implementation and mixed signals as well on the meaning of the order himself, even from the man who signed it. here's how the president described it yesterday. >> it's about keeping families together while at the same time be sure that we have a very powerful, very strong border and border security will be equal if not greater than previously.

so we're going to have strong, very strong borders but we're going to keep the families together. >> it's about keeping families together, he said yesterday. unless of course it isn't. >> i signed a very good executive order yesterday but that's only limited. no matter how you cut it. it leads to separation ultimately. >> so it leads to separation ultimately. just as a point of fact the president appears to be referring to the court settlement requiring children accompanied by parents to be released from custody within 20 days. it's not entirely clear that he was, though. if he was he seems to be ignoring the fact as aw former acting i.c.e. director told us last night that this does not have to lead to family separation. the president now calls it inevitable. this thing he started three months ago and yesterday claimed he was ending. and if your head's not spinning already listen to attorney general jeff sessions today on the practice followed by his thoughts on it just last month. >> it hasn't been good and the american people don't like the idea that we're separating

families. we never really intended to do that. >> if you're smuggling a child then we're going to prosecute you. and that child will be separated from you probably as required by law. >> so today he said we never intended to separate families. previously he indicated they did intend to do just that. and if that isn't confusing enough, there was this. the first lady leaving to visit migrant children down in texas making a compassionate visit wearing a jacket with these words on the back -- "i really don't care. do you." she did not wear it in texas but had it on when she landed back in washington. and she kept it on at the white house as calls poured in to the white house about why the first lady might be wearing a coat with that rather large seemingly insensitive sign on the back. her press secretary said, and i quote, "it's just a jacket. there was no hidden message." okay. but then a couple hours later, late today, the president contradicted his wife's spokesperson tweeting that oh, no, there was a message intended

in the sign. "i really don't care do you written on the back of melania's jacket refers to the fake news media. melania has learned how dishonest they are and she truly no longer cares." really? that was the message? okay. but remember, this was the trip to unveil this message. was that really the best trip to unveil that message? who exactly came up with that idea? because the first lady of the united states was making a trip to the border in the midst of a crisis in which kids have been ripped from their parents' arms, a trip designed to show compassion and caring and she's wearing a giant sign that says "i really don't care, do you." then the white house says there's no message to it, it was just the coat she happened to grab off the rack. and now the president's claiming it was actually a meta statement about the media. i was going to say you can't make this stuff up. but you know what? every day it seems like the white house sure does try. it's worth remembering that at all the center of this noise, all this confusion, all the politics and posturing, the confusion and outright dishonesty, are 2,300 kids.

2,300 kids are now scattered across the border region and the entire country having endured the iend of trauma we first heard on that recording which had such an impact for so many people. audio of a child at a detention center calling out for her parents. today we found the mother also incarcerated. you'll hear from her in a moment. but first some of that audio of her child obtained by propublica. >> joining us now is rosa flores from the facility where the mother of one of those chirnltds children is being held. you spoke to sindsy madrid for

about 45 minutes. how is she doing? >> you know, she's in despair. she's depressed. she's paralyzed with pain because she says that she misses her daughter. here is what she told me. >> [ speaking foreign language ]. >> and anderson, cindy also says that her daughter has never been apart from her mother. they've never separated since birth. it's very tough for this woman. >> rosa, at the facility melania trump toured today the manager there said that the children at his facility are able to talk to their parents by phone for ten

minutes twice a week. is that across the board at all these facilities? has cindy been able to talk to her daughter? >> you know, that was one of the astounding things about this conversation with this woman because despite what the administration has said and cindy was describing how they were watching television when president trump signed that executive order and all of these women in this facility started cheering and crying and thinking that things were going to change, that they were going to be able to talk to their children. but that was not the case. take a listen. >> [ speaking foreign language ].

>> now, cindy shared that phone number that immigration gave her with us. so during our interview we tried that number twice. and here's what we heard on the evened of the line. take a listen. >> [ speaking foreign language ]. >> and anderson, this woman said that she's not the only one. most of the women she knows in this massive facility are just like her. they have not been able to

communicate with their children. >> rosa, i understand that cindy madrid said she had a message for the first lady. what did she say? >> you know, i was actually doing the interview with her when the news broke about melania trump landing in the rio grande valley, visiting a separate detention center. so i asked her about the first lady's visit. and here's what she said. >> [ speaking foreign language ]. >> and anderson, i was also able to talk to cindy's sister. so this little girl's aunt. and she says that she actually was able to talk to the little girl and the 6-year-old she said is very worried about her mother, asking her aunt if her mother had eaten, if she was

still in detention, if her mother had had her detention hearings, and then process this with me. this little girl, her wish about leaving detention is she hopes to take a shower at her aunt's house, according to her aunt. and she said that she wants to buy and eat as much cereal as she can. >> rosa flores, i appreciate the report. as we said. children taken from their parents are spending their nights not just apart from them but sometimes several thousand miles apart. approximately 700 here in new york state. today new york's governor andrew cuomo visited one such facility in the new york city area. he joins us now from albany. so governor, the facility that you toured, what were you able to see? and what were you actually able to find out about the kids there? >> well, anderson, the -- first, it's a hodgepodge, to use a word. i think what happened is when they started the zero tolerance policy april 7th, that triggered once they decided to arrest the

parents, that triggered the problem of where do you put the children because the current law says you can't detain the children. and hhs then has been in this scramble ever since sending children all over the country as we well know. we have a very large system in the state of new york, so we wound up with many of the children. basically, today the young people we spoke to, they're basically traumatized. they're in limbo. they showed up at the border with their parent. they were all excited they were going to america. salvadoran running from ms-13, guatemalan running from a dangerous condition. they get to the border and they are separated from their parent immediately. they are shipped to a state they've never heard of. they can't speak the language. your point about contacting the parents is very different. it depends where the parent is

and what detention center. we have one young person who has been there for several months. only spoke to a parent once. but they're traumatized. many of them have psychological issues. they have anxiety. they have depression. many of them are on psychotropic drugs and under the care of a psychiatrist. and they don't know what's next. they don't know what's going on. are they seeking asylum? are they going to be sent back? and much of this started in april, may as soon as the zero tolerance policy went into effect. this is either gross government incompetence unparalleled or it is the most disgusting political display we've ever seen. right? it's one or the other. this was either a debacle -- >> what's so -- >> but in any event -- >> go ahead. >> you have 2,300 children -- i'm sorry.

in any event, for me you have 2,300, 2,500, who even knows what the number is. i tried to get hhs, health and human services, to tell us how many children were in the state today so i can provide help. they won't even tell me. i don't know that they even know. in any event you have 2500, 2700 young people being used as political pawns, traumatized. and this is a trauma that can last them a lifetime. it really is that kind of traumatic situation. >> what i don't understand is when general kelly was head of homeland security, he was publicly raising this idea of separating families when he was running it. you would think if they were talking about it back then, at the very least they would have had a lot of time to figure out the -- where kids would go to figure it out and it wouldn't be to use your words such a hodgepodge. did the workers at the facility

you were at, did they seem to have guidance as to what was actually going to happen next or how these kids would be reunited or what the next step was? >> no. they had no idea. but anderson, it's what you said. april 7th they put in the zero tolerance policy. we're arresting everyone. we're tough. we're strong. strong borders. the law says you can't detain children. that triggers the children having to be sent somewhere else. the president does the executive order yesterday. the headline is president reverses himself. he didn't reverse himself. the executive order is a sham. a reversal is a 180. this was a 360. this was a political pirouette. he wound up just where he started. the executive order says the attorney general must go renegotiate the florez decision, which is the decision that guides the fact that you can't detain juveniles.

the attorney general hasn't even started that. and good luck. the obama administration tried to renegotiate florez, and they couldn't. today they say we're going to set up camps for 20,000 family detention. you can't do that either under the florez decision. so none of it makes sense. none of it follows the law. i think what this is really about is making a robust political statement, we're strong on the border, we have an infestation, and the children are the pawns in this national debacle. >> and it's not going away any time soon. governor cuomo, i appreciate your time tonight. more on what the governor just spoke of. because there is no overestimating how wrenching it is for these kids. we remember the fear of being separated even momentarily from

a parent. joining us is dr. colleen kraft, the president of the academy of pediatrics. the governor was talking about the trauma the kids are going through in detention centers. there's also the trauma i would imagine in the many unknowns of when and how they'll actually be able to be reunited with their parents. it's one thing to be certaintied. it's another to not really know what the future holds. >> absolutely. and so the kids who can tell you they are traumatized are telling you this. and acting out. and we're seeing anxiety and depression. all kinds of other problems. the kids that i've seen were the really little ones who some of them are preverbal. and all they know is that that one foundational relationship in their life has been taken away from them. and they either externalize their behaviors. they become aggressive, crying, screaming. or they internalize them and they become withdrawn. >> doctors talk about the first two to three years of life of a child as the most important.

if you have kids who are preverbal, you have the children of that age being separated from their parents, there's no telling what that does to a kid for the rest of their life. just in terms of their own development. >> absolutely. so the brain develops most rapidly between birth and three years of age. and that's when we want positive experiences and positive relationships to build that brain architecture correctly. and what's happening with these kids is that the trauma is causing something we refer to as toxic stress where their fight or flight hormones are staying high in their system. and that actually keeps them on red alert all the time and disrupts their brain development, disrupts their ability to speak, to -- gross motor, fine motor movements, to develop relationships from here on out. >> the fact the president's executive order is allowing for these families to be reunited but that they may be held

together possibly indefinitely or if they don't pass -- if they don't alter the florez settlement within 20 days they could be separated again. >> so after the president's executive order the question we have is now what. when are these families going to be reunited? when are these children going to be reunited with that foundational relationship, that parent who loves them? and where are they going to be kept? are we going to have them in a place where they are retraumatized again? you know, where's the action now that this executive order has been declared? >> you visited one of these detention centers. can you just describe a little bit about what you saw, what you heard? i mean, are caregivers there able to touch them, to console them? >> what i saw was in one of the tender care shelters and it was a very homey environment. there were appropriate books and toys and blankets and things there for the children to keep them clean and fed but when you

walked into the toddler room, which should be a den of activity and noise, rambunctiousness, you had several very quiet little toddlers who were just looking at you frightened. and one little girl who was just sobbing in the middle of the floor. and couldn't be consoled. the workers who were in the room were trying to help this little girl out. they were giving her a book and a toy. but they couldn't distract her. and they weren't allowed to hold her or touch her. so this child was really in a great deal of pain. and the rest of us felt so helpless because we knew she needed her mother. and we couldn't give that to her. >> i guess the reason they're not allowed to touch a toddler or an infant is for -- to prevent any kind of abuse. at the same time, the idea of a child not getting any kind of affection is -- it's kind of stunning.

>> it's sad. i don't know what or where or why this policy exists but i saw this in action happening on the day that i visited. >> dr. colleen kraft, i appreciate your time. thank you. just ahead the message that wasn't a message until it was. new reporting on how the white house is handling the outcry over the first lady's sign on the back of her jacket today. also later breaking news. something you'll only see here. exclusive evidence of the confusion and chaos surrounding the president's executive order. [music playing] (vo) from day one,

we always came through for our customers. it's how we earned your trust. until... we lost it. today, we're renewing our commitment to you. fixing what went wrong. and ending product sales goals for branch bankers.

so we can focus on your satisfaction. it's a new day at wells fargo. but it's a lot like our first day. wells fargo. established 1852. re-established 2018. first lady visited a child detention center. by all accounts it went well. the headlines were eclipsed by the words on her jacket, "i really don't care, do you" which we showed you at the top of the broadcast. she wore it on the stairs going up the plane. it's 81 degrees in washington and she's wearing a full length jacket. as we mentioned at the top, her spokesperson's claim that she wasn't sending a message was contradicted later when the president tweeted about it. here it is. i really don't care do you, written on the back of the jacket refers to the fake news media. melania has learned how dishonest they are and she truly no longer cares. cnn's dana bash, on the other

hand, really does care about the story behind all this. she joins us now along with cnn political analyst kiersten powers. dana, first of all, you hear the president's explanation which obviously couldn't drakts the first lady's own spokeswoman. let's just tick through the other possible ways of interpreting this jacket. either tone deaf or trolling directed not at the news media but somewhere else or a staff who couldn't or wouldn't raise a red flag beforehand or perhaps a combination of all three. >> i think it's a combination of all three is the more likely of those scenarios. then there's just what we don't know which is obviously a lot. what we do know, anderson, as you very eloquently pointed out, was this was no question intended to sej a message. and the irony of this is that the message had a code ha tha has been so hard to crack that even the staff in the west wing and guess the east wing, the first lady's staff, have had mixed messages about what the coded message on her jacket could be.

it would actually be comical if it weren't about the first lady completely stepping on the message that was supposed to be the one of the day, her going down and being the only person at the senior level from the trump administration to see firsthand what is happening with some of the children. no, it wasn't one of the most -- one of the tender age facilities but it certainly was and is one where there are children who are in need. illegal immigrants who were brought over. most of them came over unaccompanied. but some of them, about a handful of them, were separated from their parents. the one other point i want to make is just by way of knowing that this was a big deal inside the west wing among the president and his staff, melania trump when she came back wearing that jacket again knowing on the plane full well that this was a big thing, came back and walked to the president's office, to

the oval office along the colonnade, which by all accounts does not happen. she doesn't go and visit the oval office when she gets back. and jeff zeleny, our white house correspondent, reports that she -- he heard from a source who saw her in the oval office upon arrival with kellyanne conway and mercedes schlapp and she was still wearing the jacket, having a discussion. >> kirsten, i mean, it's crisis management 101 to not distract from your core mission. i mean, if you're on a journey of care, a visit to show you care, to wear a giant sign that says "i don't care," it's -- i literally thought it was a joke. i thought someone had put that up on twitter and sort of doctored it or photoshopped it. >> right. but i think this is their core message, that they don't care. that she would go down there and do this tells us everything that we need to know. she's officially the marie

antoinette of this administration. she should just say let them eat cake. that is literally the message she is sending, that she just don't care about what's happening there. it was -- i was in washington this morning. nobody's wearing jackets, first of all. second of all, this is a woman who spends a lot of time very carefully picking out what she's going to wear. she's very fashionable. this was not an accident. this was intentional. so i think -- then the president tweets out, well, it was all about the fake news. which also just again shows that they don't care if that's what it was about because i'm sorry, but it's a much bigger deal what's happening there on the border. with people who really haven't broken the law, contrary to what we're being told. they're seeking asylum. that's not illegal. there's no reason to be locking them up without their children. this is not how it was handled in the past. so i'm just going to take it at face value and say melania doesn't care. i don't think we need to overanalyze it. >> dana, what's interesting about this, though, is her spokesperson's initial statement in which she said there was no

message to, it the last line of the statement was something along the lines of i hope you don't make this a story about what she's wearing, implying how stupid it would be for the media to be focused on what she's wearing. but again, she's wearing a giant sign that says "i don't care, do you," going on a mission that's supposed to show how she cares, and then the president takes the time, the most important person on the planet takes the time to craft some sort of a tweet coming up with some belabored explanation. that's what he spent time doing today. >> exactly. it's the basic notion that her spokeswoman initially said it's just a jacket, there's no message, and then her husband, the president, sends a tweet which is just absolutely not believable in the least saying that she was trying to say that to the fake news media. i'm not so sure that this is a marie antoinette moment.

i think that you're right, kirsten, to sort of try to take it at face value, and maybe we are overanalyzing it. but with melania trump because she does use her wardrobe so often to send messages, not as blatant as this, that were actually written in paint on the back of a jacket, but things like the pussy bow after the "access hollywood" tape came out or the big white hat or the white outfit around the "me too" movement. she was sending a message. she was wearing it in washington with her back turned towards washington. my sense is that she was trying to send a message to somebody in washington and it backfired. >> grow up. i mean, i'm sorry. how old is she? this is like high school stuff. we're talking about -- we were just listening earlier to children crying and sobbing for their parents. >> you're absolutely right. >> and she's like a teenager. literally. like this is something a teenager would do. although honestly, a teenager that was the child of a president would not do this

typically. so she needs to grow up if that's what she's doing and she needs to talk to her husband and work things out. people are going to see this around the world. how does this feel to people watching this and seeing this and they've been separated from their children and this is what she thinks is the most important thing. >> i also think -- and we're going to stop this first, but i also think if you do the experiment of had another first lady done this in the past, had michelle obama gone to a disaster or a crisis wearing "i don't care do you" or laura bush, i mean, people's heads would explode. or hillary clinton. the idea that people are probably on the republican side, the president's supporters-r going to bash the media for reporting on this even though the president devoted crucial time today to talk about this and make up an explanation. up next, why the president's zero tolerance for those cross the border illegally may not be the case. what government e-mails now suggest. reaction to the confusion over the separated children from a democratic senator who is seeing some of this crisis up close. we test all of our paints and stains for months.

or even years. because you deserve paint that's done right. that's proudly particular. benjamin moore. the standard for paint professionals. only at local paint and hardware stores. that you don't think about is very much. counties it's really not very important. i was in the stone ages as much as technology wise. and i would say i had nothing. you become a school teacher for one reason, you love kids. and so you don't have the same tools, you don't always believe you have the same... outcomes achievable for yourself. when we got the tablets, it changed everything. by giving them that technology and then marrying it with a curriculum that's designed to have technology at the heart of it, we are really changing the way that students learn.

and i can't wait for ten years from now when i get to talk to them again and see, like, who they are. ♪ where we're changing withs? contemporary make-overs. then, use the ultimate power handshake, the upper hander with a double palm grab. who has the upper hand now? start winning today. book now at lq.com.

we have breaking news. yet more evidence of confusion and disarray over president trump's executive order on immigration. the administration is saying loudly the zero tolerance border policy continues. however, e-mails exclusively obtained by cnn seem to say otherwise. cnn justice correspondent evan perez joins us now. what exactly do these e-mails reveal? where are they from? what do they say? >> well, anderson kufrks is really the picture that emerges. todd copeland, our colleague here in washington, obtained these e-mails from inside the customs and border protection agency. it really shows there were some instructions that were being sent from headquarters to the field offices of cbp telling them they were to suspend referring adults, people who showed up, parents who showed up with their kids and were caught crossing the border and they were supposed to suspend sending

those people to the justice department for prosecution. essentially neutering the policy of no -- the policy that the administration says was still in force. however, we are now learning that there were additional e-mails going around saying perhaps one parent and then there were no parents that were going to be sent. it looks like inside the customs and border protection agency, yesterday and today, there's been some confusion over whether or not one parent or two parents or no parents were to be sent over to the justice department for prosecution. >> that's counter to what the justice department told reporters just today. right? >> right. exactly. >> they said the no tolerance policy is still in force. the justice department issued a statement saying there's been no change to the department's zero tolerance policy to prosecute adults who cross our border illegally instead of claiming asimon at any port of entry at the border. and the customs and border protection agency also said, "the border patrol will continue

to refer for prosecution adults who cross the border illegally." now, in practice, anderson, it looks like for now at least the guidance that is being put out to field offices is don't refer people to the justice department for prosecution if they're caught crossing the border with their children. >> all right. evan perez, thanks very much. all this is adding up to outrage from some lawmakers. earlier i spoke with democratic senator jeff merkley who's toured a detention center in texas. >> senator, are you clear as to what's happening right now with regards to family reunifications and the current policy on arrests at the border? >> well, i have a fairly clear sense of it, and that is that the president has not laid out a strategy for reuniting the more than 2,300 kids who've been separated from their parents and he's replacing one policy for future families, that is, the family separation policy, that afflicts kids, with another policy that flakts kids, which is handcuffs for all. don't just put the parents in

jail. put them all in jail. >> is there any evidence at this point the white house, the justice department, health and human services, and homeland security, they're all on the same page, they're communicating well? >> well, there's a lot of evidence that they're not communicating well. because after we heard the administrator of children and family come out last night and say that no one's grandfathered, then we heard a little bit of a walk back of that. it's -- there's chaos right now. but what i'm looking for is a clear strategy to quit hurting children and qi using them, the pain of children as a strategy of deterrence. that is immoral, and so far the president doesn't get that. >> it also seems based on the florez settlement that if the trump administration doesn't get a favorable ruling in federal court that allows them to detain families together for more than 20 days, which is the current limit, that kids can be in custody, that they could go back to separating families again 20 days from now.

>> that's right. and here's the thing. what the president is proposing is the equivalent of internment camps when during world war ii we locked up japanese-american families together. that was a dark spot in our history. and creating internment camps for those seeking asylums. escaping persecution. would be another horrific dark spot. i hope the court doesn't grant it. they shouldn't grant it because the original decision was about doing what's right for the health of the children and here is a president wanting to overturn a strategy that's supposed to be good for children with one that isn't good for children. >> as we mentioned before, attorney general sessions said today the administration never really intended to separate families. that contradicts what he said just last month when he publicly warned migrants that they would be separated from their children if they crossed illegally and that others in his administration have talked about frankly as a deterrent as part of the policy. do you understand the contradiction? >> absolutely. everything we read about the

discussions that were held with the chief of staff, with the secretary of homeland security, with jeff sessions, the attorney general, it was all about how do we deter people from coming to america, and how do we inflict this chaos on the families, this injury on the families so as to deter families from coming here. and for him to come out now and say well, that wasn't the intention at all is absolutely absurd because it's the argument that he made and he made it publicly. >> on twitter today the president questioned whether a republican-led house should even bother to pass an immigration bill because it would need some democrat support to overcome a potential filibuster in the senate. what he doesn't say is that republicans in the house aren't even in agreement on an immigration bill, which is presumably why they postponed their vote until tomorrow. is there any bill you can see passion the house and the senate at this point? >> well, it's hard for me to imagine. but let's turn the clock back to 2013. the democrats and republicans

got together four and four, a group of eight, and they forged a bill that was security at the border, which is what the president wants now. with security for people overstaying their visa which is another important piece of the puzzle. it addressed visas for the high-tech community and the agricultural community. it says let's use security at the borders and visas and restore a structure of law and treat people with dignity and decency. and so that passed overwhelmingly in the senate. it had a supermajority. and the only reason it didn't become law is that the speaker of the house wouldn't put it on the floor of the house. so there is a foundation there that we could turn to for an immigration bill. then we have to undot harm the president has done to the dreamers and their families and the harm that he is inflicting on those pursuing asylum in the united states. >> senator merkley, i appreciate your time. thanks. >> you're welcome, anderson. >> since i had that conversation with the senator word came postponing a vote on immigration until next week. coming up next, how the man in charge of this during the last administration responds to the chaos today.

at&t gives you more for your thing. your getting serious thing. that moving out of the friend zone, moving in together and getting two of everything thing. those fur babies preparing you for real babies thing. that one for me, one for you, us together for the rest of everything. buy one iphone 8 and get one iphone 8 on us. more for your thing. that's our thing. visit att dot com. which is why i use armor tall ultra shine wash wipes.y. they effectively remove dirt, dust and grime with no water. that car is in tip top shape! we are both in tip top shape! armor all, it's easy to look good.

with tripadvisor, finding your perfect hotel at the lowest price... is as easy as dates, deals, done! simply enter your destination and dates... and see all the hotels for your stay! tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites... to show you the lowest prices... so you can get the best deal on the right hotel for you. dates, deals, done! tripadvisor. visit tripadvisor.com

at the marine mammal center, the environment is everything. we want to do our very best for each and every animal, and we want to operate a sustainable facility. and pg&e has been a partner helping us to achieve that. we've helped the marine mammal center go solar, install electric vehicle charging stations, and become more energy efficient. pg&e has allowed us to be the most sustainable organization we can be. any time you help a customer, it's a really good feeling. it's especially so when it's a customer that's doing such good and important work for the environment. together, we're building a better california.

tonight's breaking news speaks to confusion within the administration about the president's executive order. he said yesterday the zero tolerance policy remains. government e-mails seem to indicate otherwise. amid the confusion president trump likes to blame his predecessors for the crisis today. earlier i spoke with jeh johnson who served as president obama's homeland security secretary during his second term. >> secretary johnson, as someone who has dealt with this issue under prosecute obama, what's your reaction to the policy as well as this executive order the president signed yesterday? >> anderson, thanks for having me on. experience shows, my own experience shows, that perceived changes in immigration enforcement policy do have a reaction. at best, they have a short-term effect on illegal migration. but so long as the underlying conditions in the countries from which the migrants are coming continue to exist, illegal migration's going to continue to exist. that's what the 2014 experience, my three years as secretary showed and so we looked at doing

a number of different things. we embraced a number of different things. some of which i freely admit were controversial. but the one thing we would not do is separate children from their parents when they got to the border. >> attorney general sessions now saying they never intended to separate kids. it's the opposite of what he said last month. this administration did talk about this as a deterrent. it doesn't seem like this administration can get their story straight much less this policy. >> well, anderson, i have to say that a sure sign of the weakness of a policy, lack of confidence in a policy is when you can't simply get your story straight to explain what you are doing and why. >> president trump has said that images in detention affect everyone and he's also said the images of children in the obama administration was worse and it's a double standard. does he have a point? there was criticism in the way kids were handled under the obama administration. >> well, very clearly, illegal

migration is a fraction of what it used to be 18 years ago. you did in fact see images very plainly from 2014, 2015, 2016 of women and children in border patrol facilities after their apprehension. there's no denying that. i saw them in person myself on the numerous trips i made to south texas to address this problem. >> the president has also been critical of the legal process when releasing someone or family saying it's not realistic to expect them to return to court for a date that could take many months or even longer. i'm wondering what your reaction to that is. because yesterday, last night i spoke to john sandweg, the former acting i.c.e. director, who said that that could be addressed by using things like ankle bracelets, monitoring like that. it's actually cheaper and has been effective in the past. >> without a doubt this is a problem. migrants not returning to court when they are released.

a number of deportation orders are issued in absentia. which is why one of the things we tried to do when we had the families coming in was to expand family detention. but even with the expanded detention a number of migrants are still released. i think we need to do a better job of making informed decisions about who is a risk of flight and who is not. this is a real issue and we cannot have a system of catch and release. we are a sovereign nation. we have to secure our borders, and so we just simply cannot have a situation where people are apprehended, released, they don't return to court and they know they're able to do that. that's effectively undermining your own border security efforts. >> so what's the solution? you're saying detaining families together? more judges so this is processed quicker? >> well, plainly, we need more immigration judges. and i hope that congress will continue to fund more immigration judges.

we're at about 350 now. and the backlog among those 350 judges is enormous. it goes back years. but again -- >> the president said there's thousands of them and that's not the answer. clearly there's not thousands of them. >> 350. 350 is the number. i know we're trying to get up to somewhere in the fives. but i think that there are a lot more needed. again, and this is something politicians in washington don't do very well. we need to make the longer-term investment in addressing the underlying push factors. it's basic human nature to flee a burning building and take your family with you. and that's tantamount to what we're dealing with in guatemala, honduras, and el salvador. the push factors are enormous. >> secretary johnson, i appreciate you being with us. thanks. >> thanks. >> there's a lot more news ahead tonight. but first a quick check with chris to see what's coming up on "cuomo primetime." chris? >> it's interesting to listen to jeh johnson because what does that tell us? the legal problems and practical

problems have existed for some time. how to deal with them have always been a problem. to hear former secretary johnson saying we can't do catch and release. but that was a big part of the obama policy, something that trump campaigned against. now how he determined to show strength has got us in all this trouble. we're at the whiteboard because we start with this executive order which was supposed to fix things and we're going to take you through how it's created more and more open issues. some of them may be intentional on the part of this administration, betraying what they really want the policy to be, and we'll take you through it, and we have corey lewandowski who's wound up in the middle of this mess. we'll take him on as well. >> about 11 minutes from now. coming up, all the way the current immigration chaos resembles another mess over another controversial policy. ♪ if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months, ... with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques.

and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. tell your doctor if these occur. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. other side effects include upper respiratory tract infection and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ♪ otezla. show more of you. join t-mobile. and get netflix included for the whole family. so you can get lost in space in your own backyard... or get pumped up for your grand entrance. only t-mobile lets you watch your favorite movies and shows in more places, without paying more.

get an unlimited family plan with netflix on us. and right now at t-mobile, buy one samsung galaxy s9 and get one free.

washington state attorney general ben ferguson today along with a number of other state attorney generals said he will file a lawsuit challenge the administration's policy of forced separations of kids and parents. we should note that it was general ferguson who filed the original lawsuit against the trump administration's muslim ban. he joins us now along with cnn's chief legal analyst jeffrey toobin. so attorney general ferguson, bob ferguson, attorney general

ferguson, you called the policy to separate families rogue and cruel. what makes it unconstitutional, though, in your opinion? >> sure. thanks so much for having me on, anderson. i appreciate it. there's really two buckets of claims here which we often have as we've challenged the administration now 27 times in court. one, there is statutory claims. it's our view, for example, that the administration is violating federal law. when someone seeks asylum and comes to a poverty entry in the united states, what we want them to do, what we're getting reports on from our own investigation is that united states officials are saying to folks's, no, we're full, and sending them away. that does not follow our asylum laws, our federal laws. we also have a group of claims that are constitutional claims. think due process, equal protection. those are important. the executive order signed yesterday does not grandfather in the more than 2,000 kids that have already been separatesed from their parents. federal law, constitutional law says there's a very strong desire to have families intact. the government cannot separate a family unless they have a compelling interest. we don't think that compelling interest is anywhere close to being shown in a situation here.

>> you intended to file the suit before yesterday's executive order, correct? >> that's correct. we've been preparing for this for some weeks. we were set to go for thursday. the executive order came out yesterday. so we did stop to take a close look at that executive order, to re-evaluate our case and make sure we still thought we had a strong case. and we do feel that way. but we'll adjust our complaint a little bit. that's why it will be filed here in the next couple business days. >> do you agree, jeff, has the trump administration violated due process, of the rights of parents and kids by separating them? >> i should know better than to be skeptical of the attorney general who proved me wrong about the travel ban. but i am skeptical of this case because the president has extremely broad powers when it comes to the issues of immigration and also individuals, especially individuals who are not legally in the country have fewer rights at the border. all of us know that when you cross the border, you could be searched, you can have search

and seizure, which people can't do within the united states. and i think the policy may be unwise. it may be cruel. it may be wrong. but is it unlawful for the president to approach -- to pursue this policy? i'm skeptical. >> toernlg ferguson, as jeff mentioned you also challenged the administration on the travel ban. do you see any similarities between the executive order of the travel ban and this one, how little preparation has gone into them before how they were signed and rolled out? >> you both raised good points. jeff is correct that presidents have a lot of authority in issuing executive orders and making decisions around immigration. jeff and i had this conversation as he mentioned for the first travel ban. the clear point here, though, is that authority is not unlimited. the president still has to follow the constitution. to your point, anderson, yes, i think there are parallels to a hastily drawn up executive order. this one is reminiscent of that first travel ban. we think there are holes in it. and last thing what i'll say is yes, i have filed 27 lawsuits against this strings. administration. nine courts have reached

decisions in those cases. we're 9-0. we haven't had one federal judge rule against the state of washington on the merits yet. and i do not plan for this case to be the first. >> jeff, the justice department is now seeking to modify the federal court order that limits the ability to detain kids for 20 days. or longer than 20 days. what are the chances of that actually happening, jeff, in your opinion? they're essentially asking a judge in california to give the president maximum ability to detain families. >> one of the many problems with the executive order, it's based on the premise that they will succeed in overturning this consent decree which is known as florez which says that parents and children -- or children even if they're with their parents, can't be held longer than 20 days. i don't see why the federal judge would say what reason do i have to allow you to hold children for longer than 20 days? that was the whole point of this lawsuit. i have ruled. you have agreed that you will keep it to 20 days. what good reason is there to

extend it? so i think the administration is going to be back in a lot of trouble when they lose their effort to overturn this. >> jeff toobin, attorney general bob ferguson, thank you very much. up next, some sad news to report tonight on a writer and a thinker who made us all think harder. is literally my baby. which is why i use armor all ultra shine wash wipes. they effectively remove dirt, dust and grime with no water. that car is in tip top shape! we are both in tip top shape! armor all, it's easy to look good. with tripadvisor, finding your perfect hotel at the lowest price... is as easy as dates, deals, done! simply enter your destination and dates... and see all the hotels for your stay! tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites... to show you the lowest prices... so you can get the best deal on the right hotel for you. dates, deals, done! tripadvisor. visit tripadvisor.com

sometimes you need an expert. i got it. and sometimes those experts need experts. on it. [ crash ] and sometimes the expert the expert needed needs insurance expertise. it's all good. steve, you're covered for general liability. and, paul, we got your back with workers' comp. wow, it's like a party in here. where are the hors d'oeuvres, right? [ clanking ] tartlets? we cover commercial vehicles, too. i think there's something wrong with your sink. ♪ crawl inside, wait by theles, light of the moon. ♪ applebee's to go. order online and get 20% off $20. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood.

he. some sad news tonight. charles krauthammer, a leading conservative intellectual who'd been a columnist for the "washington post" for 30 years, has died. he was 68. krauthammer won a pulitzer prize for commentary in 1987, a