on an insurance bill. a bill that would have taken insurance from more people. than the bill the senator voted for. >> trump unfortunately is entire when i capable of disrespecting people no matter their predicament. if it suits him or his interests. look, look at what's happening on the boarder. kids ripped from their families, still not returned. despite promises to fix it all. and the executive order. lies those were. yes, trump did say he respects journalists after the mass murder, but why would you believe that? why would you believe he's not lying again. i don't have time to play all the attacks on the media, you know the truth. and now you know even if they get murdered, the president won't respect the media appropriately. it's the truth. it's as true as it is shameful. and sensitivity to the dead.

preserving his ability to bash the media to his base? is that what matters? well, this matters too. they were good people, murdered in cold blood doing a job that's fundamental to your democracy. certainly as fundamental as the presidents. the founding fathers were sure about a free press. before they knew what shape the government would take. it was a no-brainer, thomas jefferson would prefer to have newspapers over any government. this isn't about history, it's about now. larry hogan didn't think twice about lowering state flags last friday and right through today, because he did something decent. the president chose not to. because the families of the dead and the dead themselves don't matter to trump as much as his playing political favorites. and it raises a really ugly suggestion. i wonder if it were an outlet he prefers. or is he aware of? would he make a different choice?

that might be even worse? don lemon is off again tonight. i hope he's enjoying himself. you know what that means, a double dose of prime time. we have no shortage of news on this monday before the fourth of july. the president's former fixer sits down for an interview, not on camera, but on point. since those raids his life has changed, michael cohen, and you're going to hear him as you have never before. and it sounds like if you're looking at the situation right now that his loyalty to president trump is wavering, that cannot be sitting well with his former client. the white house punting today on the subject. we have more on that in a moment. first, we are now exactly one week away from the day the president will reveal his supreme court pick. he met with four potential nominees and said, he plans to interview two or three more ahead of his announcement. a decision that when it comes it's going to set off a bitter showdown in the weeks and months to come. let's start right there.

something we're calling cuomo's court. we have former virginia attorney general ken cuccinelli. and former white house ethics tsar norm eisen. let's talk white house. ken cuccinelli, the idea of push back now that this won't be about roe versus wade. do you believe that everything trump said during the campaign about doing exactly that? >> well, i certainly think that roe versus wade is going to loom large here, it's going to loom large because the type of justices and judges that so far trump has picked basically just read and apply the constitution, and that isn't how you keep a roe. as prominent scholar as larry tribe and there's a long list of liberal scholars who have all said, roe versus wade was poorly decided. so when you -- >> it's not what chief justice roberts said.

he said it was -- >> no, he didn't say it was well decided. >> he said it was starry decisive. >> it's the only one that matters. >> justice kennedy used to talk a lot about starry desis is except when he didn't. especially in his last week as a justice, deciding cases he reversed a 40-year-old one from the '70s. you know, it's not a foundational principle, it's a stability providing principle. >> norm eisen, do you agree with that? >> well, chris or should i say judge cuomo, thanks for having me back in court. i think that ken is being laudably honest. yes, roe versus wade is up for grabs. i write with larry tribe all the time. he's not saying we have to throw it out, he's saying we have to keep it, even if the reasoning

wasn't perfect. the conclusion was correct. it's essential to a woman's right to choose. that's up for grabs. chris, this is one of the most consequential supreme court nominations that our country has faced. not just roe, also health care, and the president's own liability. all of those are at stake. i appreciate ken conceding the vulnerability of roe. >> people feel that this -- tgs it's a 5050 split. decision shouldn't happen before the midterms. this is a different poll, how do people feel about roe. this is an important point, people believe in this decision as law. now, republicans as a group don't. that roe vs. wade loses in close to a 50/50 split. more people in the republican party are against roe than for it. the people in the country,

should that matter in this analysis? >> no. polls are exactly what you don't want judges to look at. you want judges to look at the law and the constitution and that's it. you really want to get judges and justices that ignore everything else and try to interpret properly interpret, not reinterpret whatever's in front of them. whether it's a statute. >> does that ever really happen? am i being cynical. >> yes, no, there are -- >> this process is the same, the judges come up, the politicians say they want someone -- >> judge cuomo, you might not. >> no, what i'm saying is -- >> judge cuomo doesn't. >> it's a legitimate question. >> every time, these men and women come up, they say, i don't know anything about anything, they look at the laws and the facts, they get on, and it seems like every decision goes along with their politics. >> well, look. different people up for judgeships and to become

justices bring different judicial philosophies to the table, and it's no surprise that those who come under democrats take ruth bader ginsburg. she's rewritten laws without real reference to the law itself. and the constitution. and that's common often the left much. >> do you agree with that? >> i don't. >> ruth bader ginsberg is one of the best justices on the court. what a statute is not clear. you try to make sense of what congress intend ed i do agree we don't decide the constitution by popularity polls. i think the most respected supreme court justices are the ones who try to get to the heart of the matter. you have someone like justice suitor, who would have been a great supreme court associate justice, merrick garland. and a very important part of

this fight is now, of course, he was not given a proper opportunity to get on the court. you have the majority flip-flopping. that's going to be a big issue in all this. >> should mcconnell have >> should they have seen what the decision is and then decide on the import. >> it's a legitimate distinction. days merrick garland was not voted upon. it's the president who picks, not the senate. they either approve or disapprove. >> one last point. americans don't vote on process. they don't vote on process, it's a basis to argue, democrats are using it now.

i would too if i were them. >> 50, 50 say it should happen before or after the election. >> does kagan kill the argument? they gave you okayingen during a midterm year. >> mcconnell is the one -- we never saw anything like mcconnell did with garland. you are the strict construction ist >> you say read the constitution, the constitution doesn't say the senate advises and consents on a supreme court justice. except in an election year. mcconnell established that principle. it's a stain on the court, whoever gets on there there's going to be an asterisk now. that has to be made right. that was one of the most uncivil political acts i've seen. it's not going to go away. you read the constitution, that was wrong we have to make it right, this should not be heard this year either.

>> i'll tell you what's strange. >> it doesn't look like it's going to happen. he has the control, so it looks like he's going to be able to do what he wants. you know what i thought was more destructive than the process, than the timing there you wound up having gorsuch instead of garland. 50 votes to get a supreme court gist 'tis. instead of 60. >> do you think in this era. >> you disagree? >> you think toxic partisanships it's easy to have a simple majority? for something so permanent? >> no, i think this isn't much talked about, since we're in cuomo's court. >> anything goes in cuomo's court. >> it's unconstitutional when it comes to presidential nominees of any party i was saying this to republicans when obama was president. that does invade the advice and consent role they have the right to advise and consent. they do not have the right to

change the rules, the president is not subject to the philly burster, that subjects the presidential power to rules of the senate that is not appropriate. >> that's a fair point. what do you think about that. i feel like it needs more, because i don't trust these men and women to do the right thing. what about his rules that you would then have a president held hostage to a senate rule? >> can occasionally takes a creative fresh look at the constitution. that nobody, not even his fellow republicans much less the courts. >> the filibuster rule has been there. >> chris, the filibuster rule was lived under. it's still there for legislation. we lived under it. it was a vehicle for civility, when you had to get those extra votes. when you had to get from 51 to 60. it forced people to compromise.

when i arrived in washington, 25 years ago, the parties talked to each other, they sought the middle. there was an effort, that was true civility, it was the civility of process, and it produced compromises. i think we need to go back to. >> agreed, i give you that last point. the demise of decency is it a big deal. i take you on that point. about the filibuster >> can i tell you why? >> i appeal. i want to file a notice of appeal. >> you can both do it on twitter, i'll follow it. i appreciate you both being decent on this discussion. i will retweet them. thank you for making us smarter tonight. >> appreciate it, fellows. >> split decision. less than a week after a single primary upset rocked the democratic party, it is divided tonight. over whether ice should stay or go. now that we see in the most recent poll, that immigration matters most to voters, this is a big deal. i've got one of the president's harshest critics in congress.

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the queen c2 mattress. now only $599, save $300. it's the lowest price ever. ends sunday. visit sleepnumber.com for a store near you. remember what got trump into office, in part, election promise after election promise. tough talk on immigration. now, that seemed poised to continue with the upcoming midterms. several prominent democrats are calling for the abolition of ice. this quinnipiac poll that just came out is so rare for immigration to be above the economy, in terms of what someone wants to vote on. now, are the democrats setting themselves up for victory here? especially with the president who's no stranger to a rhetorical street fight. let's get after it. congressman, good to have you on the show. >> thank you, chris. good to be on the show.

help me understand the play you have trump in a bad place, he made a big mistake with how he treated those kids on the border. he went from having high ground about law and order to low ground. back peddling, terrible situation there that we're tracking night by night. but then your party decides to play to advantage by saying, abolish ice. is that the right play? >> the president is still making the same mistake, there's over 2,000 kids that were ripped away from their parents and have not been reunited. in terms of ice, i believe three things need to happen. first, homeland security secretary needs to resign. the ice director needs to complaining the culture of ice. congress needs to change the policies of ice. so they don't terrorize communities. if that doesn't happen. i support abolishing ice. and replacing with an agency.

>> you don't think that position puts you right in the crosshairs of trump saying, you are about no borders and letting in anybody? >> well, ice is not customs and border control, ice is not down there at the border. that's a whole different agency, the president is misleading the public. this president has been bashing immigrants since the day he got inaugurated and democrats have flipped 43 special elections. we won a senate race in alabama, congressional race in pennsylvania. trump can keep bashing immigrants. you see the majority of americans supporting democrats. >> this is an extreme position. i'm saying that objectively. i don't want to get caught up in language i guess that he wants to call radical. i leave that to you guys. to say we want to get rid of this agency. i've been hearing it more and more from the party, and i think that it is a position objectively that is fraught with some political risk attached to it. what are you hearing within your own party about how much people

want to embrace this. >> well, we're a big party. we welcome all different views, when you listen to what people are saying, they're not saying abolish ice and do nothing. they're saying abolish ice and put it with a new agency that is not going to terrorize communities across america. ice is a relatively new agency. it was created -- >> patriot act after 9/11. >> if you look at what trump has done with his muslim ban, he did nothing against saudi arabia, even though 17 of 19 hijackers came from saudi arabia, terrorists are not coming in from the southern border this is a wholly different issue, ice has strayed far afield from what it's supposed to be doing. >> it's one thing to attack the policies and the culture, they're doing what the president and the director instructs them to do. through the cabinet selk -- secretary. that's different than saying get rid of it. when i hear it from lawmakers, a couple of them here in new york, where the show is out of, with

the new congress member and one of the sitting senators saying, it's got to go. it sounds like enforcement of the law is not a priority. fear of criticism. >> i don't think it's fair, if you listen carefully to what they're saying, a lot of media takes the first half of what they're saying. the second half is, they're saying, put it either with a different department or put it with a new agency. they're not saying do nothing. everyone in the democratic party supports enforcement of the laws, it's how you do it, and you shouldn't be terrorizing communities. by the way, ice has many missions including handling child porn, dealing with child sex trafficking, counterfeit merchandise. there have been ice officials in the media and public reporting saying, this focus on deportation is keeping us from dealing with these other critical missions. and i think if the american public were to see what ice does, they're going to say, we don't want ice to be wasting our time on deporting these folks who are not doing any harm to

america. >> how sure are you of that? it could be the main spring of the november elections. are you sure that the american people believe because we don't see it in the polls as you know. polls can change. the idea of, well, they came in illegally, but that's okay, we'll find another way, that does not have popular support. decency does. humanity does. being humane with who does come across illegally, i hear you on that, the idea of coming across illegally is not the end of the game for people. i don't know that that has public acceptance, does it? >> i agree with you, chris, and democrats are not saying open borders, because ice doesn't have do do with our borders, it's a totally separate agency. what we're seeing is ice terrorizing communities, in a way that makes us all less safe. what we want is people who are willing to go to the police and law enforcement, if they see a crime, they want to be a witness, two things they have

happening, what ice is doing is making people go into the shadows and that makes all of us much less safe. >> i hear you on that argument. it's an interesting contrast heading into these midterms. the democrats for them, the given is that you seem to have your heart in the right place. is your head going to be in the right place, in terms of how you enforce the law and keep the borders safe. they've shown a a aposty of heart. separating the kids at the border. their head was in the right place in terms of securing the border, how they decided to do it put them in a hole. we'll see who winds up on top because of this. good to have you on the show. >> thank you, chris. >> all right. >> so president trump is encouraging democrats to keep calling for the abolishment of ice, because he believes what i was just suggesting to ted lieu, it's going to help republicans at the ballot box? is he right? let's debate. angela rye, jason miller. two great debaters. angela has the glasses on,

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we've been talking tonight about the growing push to abolish ice by many in the democratic party, is it a winning midterm message or is it risky for democrats to take this on. is it going to maybe help the gop. we have angela wry and jason miller here now for a great debate. let's start with the operative premise. jason miller, immigration has popped up all of a sudden not that we readily need it. people put it ahead of the economy in terms of what they might vote on in november. and on the issue that really is resonating, you're taking a beating which is what was done to the kids on the border, americans think it was wrong and it hasn't been handled well since. how about a concern should this be for you? >> i think if we went back a week or two, this would be a much bigger concern, if we look at the space where it is right now, the former clinton pollster mark quinn is out with, 70% of americans believe we should have stricter enforcement of our

current immigration laws and 69% oppose this radical idea of getting rid of ice. when you get the -- >> you stick with the kids? >> no. >> you're skipping the kids, my brother? >> no, people support president trump's plan of zero tolerance policy. >> but not how he handled it? >> we didn't have strong enough resources for dhs to fully implement this. we had to introduce the 19967 flores settlement. capitol hill still has some things to do after the executive order. the overall plan, the zero tolerance policy is very popular, in fact, the president is from that same poll for broader comprehensive immigration reform is supported by 63% of people, there might be a lot of media outrage and a lot >> no, no, it's more than that. the polls show it, that people think what was done separating kids on the border was wrong indecent and may have a political price attached to it,

that is different than saying that people also want enforcement of the laws, angela. those two things can live together, can they not? >> they have to live together. this is a land of laws and they should be properly implemented. i think the challenge that we have is that from the election, donald trump promised to do something that a number of people didn't take seriously, including the 53% of white women who voted for him, and they're now backtracking because they had no idea it would be cruel and unusual punishment to kids that didn't do anything wrong. that is really what you're facing, everyone in this country has talked for some time since the senate tried to pass a comprehensive immigration bill that the house was too chicken to take up several years ago now. that it's time for some changes in the laws, the how is key. it's not by any means necessary. get to the end goal, it's how you get to the end going that really matters. the fact that this administration regularly calls catch and release policy, anything that will release someone regardless as if they've

committed a crime or not, is highly problematic, the narrative around people who migrate into this country is highly problematic, ways in which they've treated kids, you heard people in this administration say, they're not our kids, highly problematic, we have to talk about all those things in one of the key pieces. >> i heard it from the guy on fox and friends, maybe he counts as an administration. >> maybe that's who it was. it all blurs together. >> you've got a problem here, and i'm going to bounce this back to you. i get how the democrats could play to advantage based on how the laws were enforced separating the kids. then this call starts to rise up with democratic ranks and leadership ranks of abolish ice. are you giving away advantage by articulating and arguing a position in a way if abolish ice becomes part of the party platform that does seem weak on law enforcement that does play into open borders attacks by the right?

>> that's exactly where i was going with this whole idea about catch and release, and things that used to be defined a certain way means something very different to this current administration, i think the narrative is problematic if you don't understand what the heart of it is. people are hurting, they're watching these kids hurting, and i think the reaction is to just say how can we ease the pain? never mind the fact that ice is responsible for raids on u.s. soil not for capturing people. at the border. the fact that people are even misaligning which agency's mission is responsible for this all they know is dhs is a mammoth agency that was stood up to respond tonight at 11:00, to 9/11. they're not thinking necessarily which individual agency is responsible for this, should we abolish cbp too. it's not a matter of a mission, it's a matter of who's responsible for implementing these policies. it's the president, the president would just move that mission somewhere else. if it wasn't ice, it would be

cbp. if it's not cis, it's going to go to doj. should we abolish hhs too, since they're responsible for the shelters and housing. i think us having the conversation about the why is very important. and i don't want to blow off the purpose. i understand the push. but i think we have to get to the heart of the matter. should we be changing how funds are appropriated to these agencies? perhaps. should the budgets change? perhaps. what happens to physical conservatism. >> i hear you. >> are you making a new answered position, there's been a vulnerability. >> 100%. that's not what the party people are saying, the elected officials and -- >> it's not the party people. i talked to -- >> chris, we can cut through the nonanswer here. >> no, no, she's giving an answer. >> it's not a nonanswer. >> she's giving you a new answered take on it. but a lot of the lawmakers, the reason you jumped on it early, the reason trump is jumping on it, they gave you an opportunity. abolish ice.

>> here's my issue. >> they have no replacement plan. really what this whole abolish ice effort is, it's a big call for open borders. >> that's not true. >> people want stricter enforcement of the current immigration laws. that is what people want. the ice enforces inside of our borders, and people don't want to just turn a blind eye, and say we no longer have a sovereign country. it's not even just immigration policy, ice handles drug traffickers and human traffickers, this is important, to say that we want to go and abolish ice is so far out side of the mainstream, this is why democrats are losing. there's another point here, it's not even just the abolish ice. it's also the fact that these radicalized democrats are now essentially verbally assaulting people who work for ice and work for the government enforcing our immigration policy, it wasn't enough when they were going after sarah sanders and steven miller.

now they want to go after these career government employees. >> we can get a lot of credit on this show for the democrats starting the name game. tone starpts at the top. this is the most indecent. the most hostile, the most ugly language i've ever heard from somebody in the position of the leadership. comes from the president. >> that's not saying that my point. >> he's got to take some ownership for that. >> back to you on this, the democratic party created an opportunity for the gop to make the case that jason is making right now, new answer doesn't sell well in politics. when they hear abolish ice. the conversation is over for one half of the aisle, how do you get past that? >> here's my point. i think that nuance has to sell. sell, if you cannot discuss and negotiate policy language, you don't get a bill passed on capitol hill that is the problem. we are so polarized in this country we can't have an honest discussion. i'm not talking about whether or not we should abolish ice and the mission, i'm saying the

mission is going to change. the problem is who runs these agencies, who's responsible for it, the problem is the commander in chief. we go back to this idea of fiscal conservatism. if that is indeed what you all are about, about saving money, why are you -- the executive memo that he issued, actually argues for constructing new facilities, that is basically creating a new private prison. he's basically trying to enrich his friends. i think the winning argument is one that is rooted in truth, and that is, why would we not hit them right where it hurts. why are you standing up new facilities to catch and release and put into new facilities here instead of sending people back to where we came from. let's have that nuance i'm not interested in politics. that is the problem, jason, you're not going to let me finish. i stopped while you were talk. >> that's all right, we're out of time. no one had a nuance ice poster. poster.

they want to abolish. >> that's not my issue, they didn't work for the committee on homeland security like i did, jason, so i'm giving you the background which is important. i know you all can't handle it, but it's not real -- >> 63% -- >> i don't know where you're getting those numbers, they're not real. >> guys, i have to leave it there many. >> a dime a dozen. >> we know this, people are reacting with their heart to what happened on the border. >> absolutely. >> the battle for the head, in terms of how to fix it, is the open question. you guys were helpful on that. thanks to both of you. one of the most experienced americans when if comes to north korea is bill richardson and is here tonight. the question is an obvious one. are we being played here in the united states by north korea? that desire for a win by the president wind up kind of jading our government's view of what's happening with the kim jong-un regime? richardson knows the answer, he's going to give it to you right after the break. two motorcycles, a boat, and an r.v.

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wanted to help the school. they would put these signs on the door to let the teacher know you didn't cut off the light. the teachers, they would call us the energy patrol. so they would be like, here they come, turn off your lights! those three young ladies were teaching the whole school about energy efficiency. we actually saved $50,000. and that's just one school, two semesters, three girls. together, we're building a better california. president trump returned from his summit with north korean leader kim jong-un. don't worry, threats over all because of me.

we're learning kim jong-un has no intention of fully getting rid of nukes. what's the reality? what is our hope for better on all of this. let's get after it. >> governor bill richardson. good to see you. >> thank you, thank you, chris. >> so i hear two things, help me discern what is true. the first one is, that what we hear from bolton and pompeo, who are doing the hard work of the diplomacy here, we know what they're about, this isn't going to be easy. >> the other side we hear is the trump hyperbole. i took care of it, we're great. what is the reality in your eyes. >> the reality is i'm increasingly worried. there's no question the summit, i agreed with the president, he should meet kim jong-un, it was a risk well taken, at the same time, i was concerned we made the first move. the north koreans always want

you to make the first move, that was to stop some of the military exercises with the south. now, three weeks after the summit, north korea hasn't dn anything. you can see an increase in production and their nuclear fuel, they haven't disclosed how many nuclear missiles they have exposed. they have 20 to 60, they've made no moves whatsoever. they've also said they were going to return the remains of some of our servicemen, 200. that hasn't happened yet, i'm getting a little worried that, you know, this is typical north korean, chris. i've negotiated with them. they bob and weave, they delay. they say oh, i didn't mean that. >> they were supposedly so worried about the sanctions and about trump and the strong talk that they came to the table. how do you see it. >> i do think that they came to the table because of the sanctions. china was very active in pushing

these sanctions now it seems with all these summits between the chinese and the north koreans, the chinese are lessening the sanctions, they're giving a little space to the north koreans, and i think it doesn't help that we're in a trade war, a tariff war with the chinese, you want the chinese on our side, so i don't understand the logic sometimes of the president's moves. look, there is less tension on the peninsula, at least we're talking diplomacy, there are no missile tests. no nuclear tests. the reality is, an agreement was signed by the united states and north korea, full denuclearization, and the north koreans have not made a move, the good news is that the secretary of state is heading to north korea, the two trips that the secretary of state has taken before, have produced some results, one was, not to cancel the summit, the second was to prepare for the summit, now, this time he's got to get one, a full accounting of all the

nuclear missile materials that north koreans have, and then a schedule for denuclearization, but i think national security adviser bolton is going a little too far saying that the north koreans are going to do it in one year. that's not going to happen. >> what do you think the chance -- >> bolton is -- >> what do you think the chance of success here is, and success has to be defined as they don't have nuclear capabilities any more, you have to use the iran agreement model. what's the chance? >> well, there is no chance of that. but there is a chance of a positive outcome, if you move towards north korea freezing the their production, finding ways to halt any nuclear and any biological activity. stopping them from aiming their conventional weapons at south korea, the missiles not coming to guam and continental united states.

so, you know, it does make sense to keep pushing. but full denuclearization, i mean, that's the way that north korea is going to survive. they're going to survive with some nuclear weapons, otherwise, they have no leverage, at the same time, i do think it makes sense to continue pushing very hard, but you know, i know these guys, they're moving, they're bobbing and weaving, they're delaying, they're saying, no, no, no, we didn't mean that, then they made us do the first move, i think that was a mistake, to stop some of those military exercises with south korea. we'll see, pompeo, i'm going to give them credit for fixing things before, hopefully he can do it now. >> we'll see, the administration said we'll put the exercises right back, we can undo it, do it, with the whim, so we'll see if that's what happens, and where that leads. bill richardson, appreciate the perspective, thank you. >> thank you. >> all right, this next story, i don't know if you've heard about this, you're going to now, but you're going to be grateful you

did. what a story of survival. a dozen kids and their coach found alive after being trapped in a cave for 9, really 10 days, but they've been found. you see them, but they can't get them out. what is the deal? next. dust and grime with no water. that car is in tip top shape! we are both in tip top shape! armor all, it's easy to look good. and it's time to get outside. pack in even more adventure with audible. with the largest selection of audiobooks. audible lets you follow plot twists off the beaten track.

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dramatic video shows the moment rescuers located the team who disappeared after hiking. take a look at this. >> how many of you? >> 13. >> 13? >> yes. >> brilliant, indeed, now, rescue workers are trying to get a four month food supply for the kids. four months, why? because they're not sure how to get them out. andny want to teach the group how to dive so they can make it out of the cave. let's bring in someone who knows everything about survival skills. former cia operative robert behr, good to have you for this. >> thanks.

>> now, i want to be happy because we thought they were gone and they are not, they're alive, but four month food supply? learning how to dive? what is the predictment that although we can see the kids, we can't get them? >> well, they can't put diving suits on them and take them out this way because the chances they'd panic, probably be some casualties. you couldn't assure it. there's probably a problem getting a decompression chamber into that cave. that water is very treacherous. by the way, the divers that went in, it's amazing how dangerous that is, and the fact that they found them, they were 400 feet away where they were supposed to be. they are going -- they have to teach them to dive, that could take four months, and the food and medicine and hyperthermia. could you pump out the water from the cave, apparently not. >> they're not out of the woods here. when you say "teach to dive,"

what happened? monsoon season, a collapse and flood in the cave. what do they have to do to get out? how far do they swim to get out in what conditions? >> it's a question of teaching them how to dive, go down and come out. i don't dive myself, but, you know, it takes weeks and weeks to be a proficient diver and especially in water where you can't see. they're going to have to go deep. i don't think it's going to take four months, but if they are planning for that, that's a serious situation. >> what happens if that's plan a and it does not work? >> you know, i think, chris, it's going to work. we should be optimistic. it's like bringing people out of a sunken submarine. the u.s. navy has done this for years. they are good at it. they'll bring in experts. like i said, decompression chambers, dive suits issue and the rest of it. they're going to have to get to know their way into the cave before they are prepared to do

it, but i think at the end of the day, this is going to be a happy story. >> oh, god willing. i have to tell you something, what a harrowing thing, and you're right, it's going to be the most important thing is getting these kids, you know, young kids, and their coach to figure out how to stay calm, get prepared, and really take on the challenge of their lives. they are the kids before they went in. you know, one of the rangers there saw their bikes chained up after the rain started to come and realized these kids were missing, so they found them. that's the good news. how to get them out is a continuing adventure, thank you for perspective. appreciate it. >> thanks. all right, now, coming up, a story not getting a lot of attention, but it needs to. it's racist, antisemitic, bigoted cartoon posted on the twitter account of a former republican presidential candidate. let that sink in. why not ignore it?

because what you ignore, you give power. we have closing argument next. salads should look like this. crisp leaves of lettuce. freshly made dressing. clean food that looks this good. delivered to your desk. now delivering to home or office. panera. food as it should be.

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i'm a small business, but i have... big dreams... and big plans. so how do i make the efforts of 8 employees... feel like 50? how can i share new plans virtually? how can i download an e-file? virtual tours? zip-file? really big files? in seconds, not minutes... just like that. like everything... the answer is simple. i'll do what i've always done... dream more, dream faster, and above all... now, i'll dream gig. now more businesses, in more places, can afford to dream gig. comcast, building america's largest gig-speed network. all right, closing argument. what we ignore, we empower. that's the context for this. did you see what former congressman and former president, candidate ron paul sent out?

this. take a look at this. i want you to see it. it's ugly, bigoted bs. deleted and blamed on a staffer. no words on consequence for that staffer yet, but the message remained and it deserves attention. this is not who we are at our best. blacks, jews, asians, hispanics, calling out russia as a pernicious influence, but spreading diversity as this ugly concept, not for election meddling, something that so many on the right still hide from. all right. forget the political hypocrisy. that's the least of the transgression. the case is this. demonizing who is different is a cancer, and look who sent it. republican ron paul from texas. he matters somewhat. his son is rand paul, the kentucky senator, nothing from him about this, by the way, and we need to expose it because the

ugliness is contagious. the bs from paul resinates. it encourages more us versus them ugliness. like what? well, here's the proof. calling the cops on 12-year-old from mowing somebody else's lawn by mistake while working for a neighbor. like this lady calling the cops on this 8-year-old jordan for selling water in front of her own house. are you kidding me? are we this estranged? this disconnected? this anti that we're going after kids that we can't just go out and talk to, one, somebody who is your neighbor? of course this is true. this is where we are. how do we know? look at the border. now, i know some people say don't show it. it's ugly. don't encourage this kind of thing. don't give it the attention. if i do that, then i'm spreading it.

no. i believe when you ignore, you empower. hate lives in shadows. it withers in the sunlight of truth and decency. that's why we shine the light. that's all for us tonight. thank you for watching. we're going to get after it again tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on cnn. have a great night. ♪ it's a time of enormous turmoil. >> '60s are over. >> here's michael at the foul line. good! >> we intend to cover all the news all the time. we won't be signing off until the world ends. >> isn't that special. >> any tool for human expression will bring out both the best and worst in us. and television has been that. >> they don't pay me enough to deal with animals like this. >> people are no longer embarrasses to admit they watch television. >> we have seen the news, and it is us. ♪