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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  July 3, 2018 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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partisan bickering on the senate side. people can come together. republicans and democrats, and put out a document that backs up the intelligence community. chris cuomo, great talking to you. we'll see you later on tonight on cnn. be sure to tune in for "chris cuomo prime time" here on cnn at 9:00 eastern. thanks very much for watching. happy fourth of july. "erin burnett out front" starts now. >> breaking news, chief scott pruitt's personal appeal to the president. why he wanted jeff sessions out at the state department. plus, the official white house twitter account used to take on top democrats over immigration. is that normal? and we're live on the scene of the cave rescue. i'll talk to a diver who is desperately trying to get the soccer team out. let's go out front. good evening, everyone. i'm kate baldwin in for erin burnett. embattled epa director appealing to president trum top fire attorney general jeff sessions and let pruitt himself run the
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justice department. this as we're learning about additional supreme court nominees that the president met with today. we're "out front" at the white house. what can you tell us about the appeal from pruitt directly to the president? >> kate this is just another interesting chapter and twist in this ever running scott pruitt story. we're told earlier that scott pruitt the head of the epa met with the president in the oval office. he had a solution for him about one of the president's biggest problems, that, of course, is the attorney general jeff sessions. we know the president has been displeased at jeff sessions for a long time for refusing himself. scott pruitt offered to be the next attorney general. and it's called -- he essentially would have filled the position for a couple hundred days under the vacancies act. it takes a confirmed member of the cabinet who is a lawyer to replace a fired attorney general. of course the president has not fired the attorney general. this didn't come to pass.
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scott pruitt was volunteering to be the acting attorney general. he said after his time is up, he would go back to oklahoma to run for office. of course, a lot of things have happened since then. he is still the subject of some 14 separate investigations into all types of wrongdoing. so the president declined that offer. but it certainly interesting that he was making the offer, perhaps looking for a different type of exit because he certainly in the hot seat still at the epa. >> i can't wait to see what the next cabinet meeting looks like. also, the president promises a big announcement on the supreme court nominee just days from now. we find out today that he also spoke with even more candidates, even more of a short list, if you will. >> he did, indeed. we are told by white house officials the president talked to three more potential supreme court justices. that brings up the number to seven that he spoke with individually in the last couple days here. the president is still leaning toward an announcement next week if prime time on a monday evening. he is looking at a variety of
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conservative justices, of course. and i am told by white house officials the president believes he'll make up his mind long before next monday. some of this is simply an exercise to get some potential candidates vetted publicly here. we know one thing, kate. the president is intent on appointing, nominated someone who is young. most all of the candidates in their 40s and 50s. he has told people he wants someone on the supreme court to fill the seat of anthony kennedy to be there for some 40 or 45 years. that certainly would place a conservative imprint on the court. so all of the candidates have clerked for justice scalia, kennedy, others. they have one thing in common, they're all quite young. >> all right. stand by to stand by. great to see you. also right now, president trump is on stage in west virginia speaking to service members and veterans. but one big question tonight as he is speaking, will he be speaking the truth? today the country got another look at president trump's
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alternate twitter reality. the president is in just a few short hours sending out a number of factual lyn accurate statements, tweets which the white house says are officially presidential statements, tweets with no proof though to back them up. there is one thing backing him up, it appears, fox news. here are two examples just from today. here's the tweet. just out that the obama administration granted citizenship during the terrible iran deal negotiation to 2500 iranians including to government officials. how big and bad is that? that would be big. but so far no evidence that it happened. the former senior director of president obama's national security council jeff prescott, he tells cnn this. the allegation is absurd and entirely false. so where did the president get this idea? he probably -- you probably guessed it, fox news. >> the obama administration also granted 2500 u.s. citizenships to families and friends of the
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iranian government. >> but even fox news admits their story is based on a claim by a single iranian cleric and member of parliament quoted by the iranian state media and their own fox news analyst and former state department spokeswoman says this, "this sounds like totally made up bs." and then there is this quote. "many good conversations with north korea. it is going well. in the meantime, no rocket launches or nuclear testing in eight months. all of asia is thrilled. only the opposition party which includes the fake news is complaining. if not for me, we would now be at war with north korea." here are some additional facts for you. the president's own intelligence community, not the opposition party and not the media is making the case. things are not in fact going well. the defense intelligence agency believes that kim jong-un has no intention of giving up his nukes any time soon. that's their report.
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so who says otherwise? you're probably sensing a theme here now. here's what he heard watching fox news. >> no missile tests going on. and the north is clearly seriously negotiating and that is a major, major step forward. >> not to put too fine a point on it, but the untruths are officially statements from the president of the united states. you don't have to take it from me, of course. here's the president's former press secretary. >> are president trump's tweets considered official white house statements? >> the president is the president of the united states. so they're considered official statements by the president of the united states. >> that was true then. so i guess it's true now. out front now, frank bruni is here, a "new york times" columnist, the white house counsellor to president clinton and steve cortez, a member of president trump's 2020 advisory council. thanks for coming in. frank, this is a president who has trouble with the facts. according to "the washington
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post" fact checker, it's on average six misstatements or mischaracterizations or just lies, false, misleading claims a day that, is 3200 since he took office. are there any signs that this is changing? what's the real impact of it? >> i don't think we're going to see this change at any point in the trump presidency. i think a lot of us are thinking at some point he's the president. veal to behave more presidentially which you would think includes having some tether to the truth. that's not the case. that's not what's happening. i think president trump learned there are certain number of americans not going see our fact checks, not going to hear the conversation that you and i are having now or the great lead in you just did. they're going to come in contact with a tweet and hear something he says and take it at face value or they're not going to think any further than that. he has seen that sometimes repeating an untruth, repeating an untruthful suggestion can have great impact. he brought down the approval numbers for robert mueller over the last month. he's done that by making unfounded accusations and using
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the phrase which hunt over and over again even in context where it had no relevance or completely unsubstantiated. donald trump is learning that there is more upside than down side to telling lies and i think he'll continue telling them until the very end. >> and branding has worked for years for him. worked during the campaign. branding seems to be working now. steve, these are official statements from the president. are you okay with him tweeting these things that are not proven? >> look, i'm glad that fred mentioned witch hunt. if you look at the lies that "the washington post" categorizes as such, many of them are opinions. so they will say when he says witch hunt, that counts as lie number one. it's an opinion. by the way, i think a very correct opinion. regarding what you just said about iran, i don't know if it's true or not. by the way, you don't know either, quite frankly. you don't. neither do you, frank. we don't know. >> steve, i'm not going into a place where it's now my job to prove the negative. if the president has this information, it's important for the public to know and important
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for the president to say it. >> agreed. >> but you heard what marie hart on fox news says she thinks it's totally bs. >> that is a very liberal analyst. it's like me on cnn saying -- let's be honest about that. i typically don't agree with most people on cnn nor does she on fox news. but here's the point on the president and iran. i have learned when he says something that seems a bit outlandish, i learn to believe him. it normally becomes the accepted reality later on. i could have never believed that we would handbi billions of dollars in cash to the mullahs in tehran. i would have never believed that. >> is it a safe place to say that donald trump is the truth teller of all truth tellers? that's what i'm talking about here. >> i think this. when he offers opinion, he offers opinion. when he says it's a witchunt, that's an opinion. when he says something on iran, i don't know if it's true or not.
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i frankly don't. again, i learned to believe him because he's right so often even when he says something that seems as if it's hard to believe. when you don't know either if it's true, you call him a liar immediately. you don't know that it's a lie. so to call it a lie is a lie. that is important for the american people. >> i'm offering up the evidence that exists right now. if there is further evidence that exists, we're happy to report it as always. >> that's not true, kate. >> paul, go ahead. >> but you don't know it's not true. you don't. >> paul? >> what you see -- >> you are speechless? >> i am never speechless. i just wanted to mabke sure tha brother cortez had a chance to make his case. wow. it was staggering. this is the point. president trump has a strategy here. i do think the left is wrong when they say he's crazy or stupid. he is neither. he is strategic.
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and he is brilliant in his communication. he is trying to kill the truth. he is at war with truth. the truths are likely to come out in the mueller investigation. so when you go to war with truth like this which demagogues have done through history, it's the first thing they do is attack truth. that's why he attacks the press. it's not that he doesn't like you, kate. he doesn't like truth. your job is to be faithful to facts. his job is to deny facts so that at least some portion of america, some small portion, will stand by him as he proudly bragged. i think that is exactly what is happening. we're watching in real time a classic demagogue strategy to attack the truth. >> frank? >> for you to call him a demagogue is so irresponsible.
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and we've gone down this line 1,000 times. if we enforce our border, we're nazis. if we vote for trump, we're nazis according to donnie deutsche, according to james clapper, former head of the cia. these are not fringe people. and for you to call him a demagogue is along that same line of reasoning. it is condescending and number two, it actually is helping our success, believe it or not. >> steve, if we're going down the path of opinion, the press is the enemy of the people. you're comfortable with that opinion out there? >> no. he said, let's be precise here. >> oh, my god. >> he said the fake news press is the enemy. >> depending on the day, steve, is all press. >> okay. >> depending on the day is all press. >> do you come on cnn because you want to speak to the enemy
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of the people? >> i think the white house briefing room, i know most of the people. they detest the president. and they believe they are opposition party. they think in the twisted view, they truly believe that they're doing some sort of noble service by serving as his opposition. they report on the falsities when it fits the narrative. >> they often do have to fact check him in real time, real facts. real fact checking, as in this was your policy that separated kid at the border. can you change it by an executive order? i absolutely can't. and then he says he can. frank, you need to come in. >> steve says the press, you know, is mocking us saying we think we're doing a noble service and we're not. are you doing a noble service to vouch for the character and truthfulness of a man that tweeted said he would have won
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except for illegal votes? are you willing -- are you doing a noble service when you vouch for the character and truthfulness of a man that says there were muslims in jersey city celebrating the fall of the twin towers? i don't understand why you are so forgiving. he tweets something about iran that has no backup. we're exposed to believe him before we doubt him i don't think you're offering a noble service to vouch for him in the circumstances. >> i think the noble service, by the way, is we're a country that is becoming more prosperous and more safe under his leadership. and he is becoming, by the way, massively more popular as our economy grows. >> his approval ratings are still below 45%. >> the economy is doing well though. let's deal with that one fact. paul, go. >> final word. >> as you know, i went to the university of texas austin. and at the main building there, the tower, etched in stone is
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this phrase from jesus christ, ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. donald trump fears if we know the truth the truth will destroy him. that's why he's at war with the press. that's why he's at war with the truth. that's why he's trying to destroy truth at least in that slice, maybe it's a third of the country, who voted for him and who believe in him. >> i'm glad that my attempt to cut through the noise and get through the facts today seems like it went down in a blaze of glory. great to see you all. thanks so much. so uplifting. next, raising eyebrows. the white house twitter account going after top democrats by name. is that ethical? and taking on scott pruitt. >> i urge you to resign before the scandals push you out. >> the woman in that video is out front tonight. plus, troubling allegations against jim jordan accused of
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(burke) so we know how to seen cover almost anything. even a "cactus calamity". (man 1) i read that the saguaro can live to be two hundred years old. (woman) how old do you think that one is? (man 1) my guess would be, about... (man 2) i'd say about two hundred. (man 1) yeah... (burke) gives houseplant a whole new meaning. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ president trump in west virginia now comparing i.c.e. raids to liberating a town in war. here he was just a few minutes ago. >> it is. it's like liberating a town. in a war, you liberating a town in an area. and i.c.e. goes in there and they go in there and sometimes
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they have to go in swinging. they don't mind. they're tough. and then i hear democrats saying i want to band on i.c.e. we want to band on. we're not band onning i.c.e. and we're not abandoning our law enforcement. zbl . >> out front now, congressman from arizona. thank you for coming in. >> thank you. appreciate it. >> thank you. what you just heard from the president, i.c.e. raids are like liberating a town in war. what do you make of the comparison? >> the comparison is consistent with what is coming from trump. the director that just retired, it makes this into a war zone, a military operation and the point of the spear in that and the analogies that he's made from infestation to swarms of
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criminals and ms-13 coming over the border. everybody is a criminal. and the results have been family separation. the splitting of children from their moms. the result has been that we have not taken care of the issue with the dreamers. and the result has been that the rhetoric has gone up. i.c.e. has become, i think, because of the weak leadership of the secretary of home land security, quite frankly, the political implement for the rhetoric that donald trump has. and that is frightening. and the calls for i.c.e. to be scrutinized, refocused, split up, band oabandoned and abolisha crisis. >> let me ask you, because that is something that is absolutely seems to be a debate within the democratic party right now.
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do you think i.c.e. should be abolished? >> yeah. i think we reached the point. abolish is, you know, the issue we're dealing with. they ask a commission to study, audit, look at mission and look at how we restructure. >> isn't abolish and audit quite different? >> yeah. they're quite different. but at the end of the day, the process is going to -- i think it has to involve a restructuring of what i.c.e. they have everything from detention to internal and border enforcement and this administration is asking for additional $2.9 billion for detention for profit prisons. they're asking for 10,000 new i.c.e. agents and building a force that doesn't have the
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accountability, doesn't have the same structure as any other federal law enforcement for that matter even a town or city police department. there are so many things that have gone on that focusing on this issue is important. this whole midterm is going to be about this same rhetoric that we're hearing from the president today. >> so you remember the congressional hispanic caucus. cnn is reporting that the caucus has been circulating talking points that push back on what you're talking about. that push back on calls to abolish i.c.e. one quote for you is abolishing i.c.e. without changing president trump's immigration policy will not solve the problem. are they being too soft? >> no. i don't disagree with that. i don't think that any of us including members of the hispanic caucus are -- >> i feel like you're saying two things at the same time. >> we're not band onning law enforcement. the fact of the matter is and maybe i differ on that, that if
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we don't look at i.c.e. as a principle instrument of the rhetoric of donald trump, if we don't look at it for what it has become and not what was intended to become when it was consolidated, then we're shirking our responsibility. i don't think there is a thing wrong with looking at i.c.e. with the end result being a different configuration. if the word abolishment is appropriate, then it's appropriate. >> so you think abolish means wipe it out and not have it back. that's what that means. >> there is no abandonment of law enforcement. before i.c.e., there was border enforcement. before i.c.e., there was unauthorized entrants were dealt with. before i.c.e., the smuggling -- >> do i hear democratic repeal and replace coming? >> i hope not. i think what we're talking about is looking at an agency that in many respects has gone rogue and needs to have the constraints and other federal law
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enforcement agents like marshals, fbi, aft, et cetera have. >> real quick, congressman, what do you say to folks who -- trump looks like he is very happy to have this conversation. are you playing into his hands? >> yeah. i think that's a concern that i talked to with my colleagues. we're providing him with additional ammunition. quite frankly, the rhetoric around immigration, the rhetoric about increasing enforcement, rhetoric about the bigotry that comes with this issue as well, it's not going to go away. that is the red meat issue for what he believes are his supporters. it's not going to go away. so us not discussing the need to look at i.c.e. and to have everything on the table including changing it is not going to change the emphasis or the concentration of rhetoric that is going to happen around the issue of immigration going into this midterm. us not saying anything about it
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won't change it. >> meaning red meat with red meat. thank you for coming in. i appreciate it. >> no problem. thank you. >> out front next, scott pruitt interrupted. >> i just wanted to encourage you to resign because of what you're doing to the environment. >> the woman who con fronted pruitt is my guest. plus, an influential jim jordan turning a blind eye to sexual abuse. he denies the accusations. that story just breaking to day. that's ahead. ahh, a h...and a half.... but they can relax. they got an unbeatable price on a suite. with an extra bed. no one looks out for you, like travelocity. with price match guarantee, you'll always wander wisely.
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it all started when donald trump tore thousands of immigrant children away from their parents. we the people challenged him in court and in the streets. then trump was forced to admit that his policy was wrong. and he caved. the court just ruled that trump must reunite every family he broke apart. (clock ticking rapidly) time is ticking. these children must see their parents again, and they're counting on us to act quickly. does it look like i'm done? shouldn't you be at work? [ mockingly ] "shouldn't you be at work?" todd. hold on. [ engine revs ] arcade game: fist pump! your real bike's all fixed. man, you guys are good! well, we are the number-one motorcycle insurer in the country. -wait. you have a real motorcycle? and real insurance, with 24-hour customer support. arcade game: wipeout! oh! well... i retire as champion. game hog! champion.
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embattled epa administeror in a washington, d.c. restaurant. the confrontation, something to watch while she is holding her 2-year-old son in her arms. >> i just wanted to encourage you to resign because of what you're doing to the environment and our country. this is my son. he loves animals. he loves clean air and clean water. we deserve to have somebody that can actually does protect our environment and who believes in climate change and treats it seriously for all of us and including our children. i urge you to resign before you are pushed out. >> the woman in that video, she is out front now. thank you for coming in. >> thank you for having me. >> so tell me, why did you decide? what was it about the situation that you decided that you wanted to go up to scott pruitt when you saw him at the restaurant? >> well, there was never a doubt about it my mind. as soon as i knew he was there, i wanted to take the opportunity to talk to him. i think probably maybe having my child there with me gave me a
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little extra push because this is the man who is literally undermining my child's future, the future of all of our children, the next generation. he is actively sacrificing our clean air, clean water to line his own pockets and the pockets of his friends. and this was my opportunity to call him out on it. >> i saw from what i saw in the video, pruitt sits there stoically throughout. did he say anything to you? >> when i came up, he said hello. and he confirmed that he was mr. pruitt. and, you know, he was -- smiled and seemed, you know, friendly enough. at first i think maybe he thought i was a super fan of some sort or something. and then, you know, of course, i suggested that he resign and the smile faded pretty quickly. he seemed annoyed at that point. and then when i started listing off some of his scandals, that's when his demeanor changed and he definitely stiffened up and looked angry, defensive,
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uncomfortable, as he should. it is embarrassing what he is doing. >> did he respond after the fact? >> he did not. i know that his office put out a statement he said thank you or something. and, you know, i may have missed that. we may have stopped filming and walking back and missed that. i think it's telling that what they want to focus on is oh, you know, he said thank you. that's not really the issue here. my 2-year-old can say thank you. the issue that we would like to address is what he's doing to our environment and the way he's spending taxpayer dollars on personal expenses, the way he's getting discounted rent from energy lobbyists that the epa is supposed to be monitoring. that's what we would like to talk about. of course, his defense is well i said thank you. i think that is telling. >> sarah sanders was recently asked to leave a restaurant she was eating at. today she had this to say. listen to this. >> i think it's sad the situation and where politics
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have gotten. look, we live in an amazing country. and certainly people should be free to disagree. but i think that we can do that in a way that is much nicer, that doesn't call for people to never be able to step foot in public. >> does she have a point? should scott pruitt be able to eat in peace? >> listen, i'm not surprised that's what they want to talk about is the where and when as opposed to the issues. it's a distraction. we pay these administrators' bills via taxes. they are our employees. their jb is ob is to serve the public. if they're doing the job properly and if they want to do their job effectively, they should want to hear from us. that's what i'm telling him how i feel. if they don't want to be called out in public, then they shouldn't make decision that's harm the rest of us. >> there are other confrontations with cabinet members. someone was recently heckled at a restaurant over the administration's zero tolerance policy. i'm sure you saw the video.
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for the viewers, here's what it sounded like. >> >> shame! shame! shame! shame! zbl >> were you inspired by that or do you think it's important to take different approach? your approach was different. >> i don't -- i didn't actually take any of those things into consideration. i only had a couple minutes. i scribbled down a couple talking points on the back of my receipt and i went up to talk to him. so i wasn't kind of running through the, you know, the events that made the news in the last week or two. and i really was approaching this not, you know, not as an activist or protester. that was me speaking as a mom. this feels very personal to me. he's making the decision that's are undermining the future for our children. you know, he has kids. it's unfathomable to me how he can do this. so that's what i wanted him to see. >> since it is just happening this evening right now, i did
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want to get your thoughts on cnn has some reporting that pruitt actually asked president trump this spring to fire jeff sessions as attorney general and let him, pruitt, take over as attorney general instead. your thoughts? >> you know, it doesn't surprise me that scott pruitt thinks that he didn't have to follow the rules. i think that hearing that -- look, i'm not a jeff sessions fan by any stretch of the imagination, obviously. but him making that request to donald trump is beyond a breach of decorum. that is wildly unethical. i think it's time for scott pruitt to get entirely out of this administration. >> kristen, thank you for coming in. appreciate it. kristen mifrp kristen mink. >> thank you. >> up next, allegations against jim jordan. did he ignore sexual abuse and reports of that at ohio state university when working as a wrestling coach. and the soccer team in tie stand still stuck in a cave. it could take months before they
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i we worked with pg&eof to save energy because wenie. wanted to help the school. they would put these signs on the door to let the teacher know you didn't cut off the light. the teachers, they would call us the energy patrol. so they would be like, here they come, turn off your lights! those three young ladies were teaching the whole school about energy efficiency. we actually saved $50,000. and that's just one school, two semesters, three girls. together, we're building a better california. s. jim jordan, a powerful republican is being accused of turning a blind eye to allegations of rampant sexual abuse of male athletes by a team doctor at ohio state university years ago. former athletes are speaking out about dr. richard strauss claiming he sexually assaulted students starting in the mid 70s
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through the late 09's. jim jordan was an assistant coach to the team. the statement from jordan's office is defiant and unequivocal saying that congressman never saw any abuse, never heard about any abuse and never had anything reported to him. what is his law firm saying? >> the legal counsel for ohio state university says they did previously contact jim jordan's office by e-mail and phone to request that he participate in an interview. they say he has not responded to those requests. >> he said despite claims to the contrary, he has not received a request from the investigative team. we demand they send us the communication and remain willing
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to assist in any way that we can. the team physician forage lettics from 1981 through 1995 at the university, he treated athletes from 14 sports there including wrestling. and that's where he overlapped with now congressman jim jordan, a former assistant wrestling coach. ohio's attorney general's office in conjunction with legal counsel for ohio state launched an independent investigation in april of this year and interviewed more than 150 stormer students and witnesses. kate? >> that's amazing. you just spoke to one of the former students who is coming forward. what did he tell you? >> i did. his name is michael. he is a former student at ohio state university. he was also a member of the wrestling team at the same time that he says jordan was an assistant coach.
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he said everyone knew about it including jim jordan. to his knowledge, no run reported this to authorities. he said it was a "running joke." that if you went to the doc's office, he would touch you inappropriately. >> doc strauss was a serial groper of our bodies including our testicles. it's unfortunate. i consider jim a friend. but for whatever reason, he's made the decision to deny something that was absolutely happening. he had knowledge of it. i have personal knowledge he knew. his locker was next to doc strauss locker in the locker room. >> and as we have said, jim jordan defiantly has said he never had any knowledge of abuse going on at that time. kate? >> 150 people interviewed. amazing. jean, thank you for bringing us that. all of this. out front next, why could it
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take -- why would it take months to get a soccer team out of the cave? we're going to show you what it's like inside. and proud to be an american. well, jeannie moos heads to the streets in search of the answer. >> if i had an opportunity, i would get the hell out of this country. ahoy! gotcha! nooooo... noooooo... quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent. bounty, the quicker picker upper. you shouldn't be rushed into booking a hotel. with expedia's add-on advantage, booking a flight unlocks discounts on select hotels until the day you leave for your trip. add-on advantage.
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tonight rescue teams are working around the clock scrambling to free a youth soccer team. just found alive yesterday, two navy seal divers, a doctor and nurse, were tending to the boys inside the pitch black cave now. rescue crews have been bringing in food and water. authorities there are looking at all of their options, none of them easy, to get the boys home. we're hearing we have more from there tonight. >> they are preparing for these boys being trapped inside these caves for potentially four months. that's to sit out the rainy season. it is monsoon season in tie land. we had a break in the weather. but they are expecting heavy rains in the next couple of days. now they are pumping water
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furiously from the cave, hundreds of thousands of litres every single hour. and they are making progress. reducing those levels. but they are now looking at ways to get the boys out, perhaps using a full face oxygen mask and being led out by those navy seals. so if that happens, if they can get the boys feeling comfortable, this could happen a lot sooner than we expect. now as for the spirits, we understand that they are in good spirits which is quite remarkable considering we are now entering day 11 of the saga. you mentioned the navy seals. there are seven to ten navy seals that have been by their side ever since they were discovered. and we also understand that there's a real camaraderie among these team members and this they are extremely resilient. they are desperate to get out and be reunited with their families. >> remarkable they're in good spirits. just remarkable. anna, thank you so much.
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tom foreman, this is a system of caves. it's more than six miles long where the boys -- where the cave -- part of the cave where the boys now is one mile in. more than a mile in. explain what rescue workers are working against. >> they're working against darkness and cold and rushing walter and time. let's take a look at the structure of this mountain and the caves inside, what they have to deal with in terms of challenges there. this is where the boys went in. they're more than a mile into the mountain side. more than a half mile down. and there is as far as we can tell no really complete diagram of the inside of this cave. no really good map. but if we took a hypothetical cross section, we can explain why they're trapped there and why so hard to get them out. let's say they came in down here. they walk through the cave, they would have gone up and down and up and down. then when the monsoon rains rushed in, the water started filling in those gaps. and in some cases, you can see right there would have made it completely impassable.
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how many there are like this, we don't know. are big as a house? big as a football field? we don't know. we know the divers a taking quite a bit of time from here to there. and if they want to bring the boys back out that way, as anna mentioned, they face real challenges. first of all, some of these boys are unable to swim. a diver could tow someone through there, but he would still have to wear a scuba mask and be underwater for quite a bit of time. there are cramped passageways, all of which complicates the process and it could lead to panic, which is dangerous for the rescuer and the person being rescued. >> absolutely. so what about the alternatives? >> well, anna has mentioned a few possibilities there. they could take the model from the chilean rescue of 2010. remember when the miners were caught underneath the town there? they bored under the mountain.
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remember, there were three different bore holes and it took more than two months before these happy reunion scenes finally occurred. so maybe they could go with another option as again, we heard a moment ago. keep supplying these kids. move them to maybe a slightly higher, safer platform there. but again, you're betting on the waters going down. there is no sign that will happen any time soon. >> betting on mother nature is a scary thing. thank you, tom. i appreciate it. ben is a caver diver on the ground in thailand, part of the team trying to figure this thing out. ben, thank you so much for taking the time. you saw firsthand what the conditions are. help us understand what it's like. >> and with zero visibility, these were the first days when we arrived there. so we had very little hope of getting them. but as the rain stopped, it got better. the current got less and we actually made good headway, and
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we made those, like your reporter said, the 1 1/2 miles into the cave to the place where the kids were. >> how long did it take you to get in there? >> four hours. >> wow. >> i spoke with one diver today who said that cave diving is tough for even some of the most experienced divers. it takes training, months of trach. how difficult is it going to be to teach some of these kids to dive when some of them don't even know how to swim? f that's what it come downs to? >> in comparison, we dive caves every day. we do a lot of exploration. we wouldn't have dived this cave in any conditions at all. that's why there is no fixed lines in there, because it's only being done when it's dry and safe. so diving this cave is a mt. everest of cave diving with heavy fixed lines for about 1 1/2 mile into the cave. and it was the hardest job of all to connect the lifeline with the kids.
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>> wow. >> there is now a doctor and a nurse that are in the cave with the boys and their coach. can they survive in there for three, four months until the floodwaters recede? is that a real option right now? >> they're running out of options. the conditions were quite good. heavy pumps are doing their job. the water is receding quite a bit. it dropped six foot in the last days. they were hoping it would be low enough so they could literally swim the kids out. but the water has risen. yesterday the water came up a bit, and they're expecting heavy rains, which would flood the entire system. you've seen the base on footage. if the rain starts, these would all flood, making the distance to the entrance double, which would make it impossible to get to the kids. so yes, they would have to be literally locked up for three or four months until the rain stops and the water resides. they would take big packs of food with them for this time.
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>> real quick, ben, you said you were surprised that they were all alive and in good condition. i think everyone probably. do you know how they spent those nine days in pitch-black before they were found? >> i have a team of doctors that are consulting me. they were a bit worried about their mental state. obviously ten days with no solid food, no light, probably bats flying around against them, which is not very stimulating for the mental health. but surprisingly, yes, one of the british surfaced there first, and they were talking english with them, asking them what day it is and do you have food this we are hungry. so yes, they are in very, very good shape. obviously, muscle atrophy, too weak to walk. and that's what they're doing right now, supplying them with a little bit of food and slowly getting their powers back. >> it's a good news and scary news story all wrapped into one. thank god they're alive. really up against some
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challenges still. ben, thank you for what you're doing. thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me. >> thanks. coming up next for us, a new poll finding patriotism is fading. did anyone tell the president? it's time for the 'lowest prices of the season' with savings on the new sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your every move and automatically adjusts on both sides to keep you effortlessly comfortable. and snoring.... does your bed do that? don't miss the 4th of july special. save up to $500 on sleep number 360 smart beds. plus 36-month financing. ends sunday.
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the others? nope! get internet on our gig-speed network and add voice and tv for $34.90 more per month. call or go on line today. tonight, on the eve of the 4th, do you feel proud to be an american? here is jeanne moos. >> reporter: is once exploding american patriotism starting to fizzle? would you call yourself extremely proud to be an american? >> not at the moment, sorry. ♪ i'm proud to be an american >> reporter: only 47% of americans say they're extremely proud to be an american. that's the lowest level since gallup first asked the questions 17 years ago. >> extremely proud, very proud, moderately proud, only a little.
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>> very proud. >> i think i could be prouder to be an american. >> 100% patriotic. >> i would say i'm embarrassed to be an american right now. >> reporter: and you're a proud citizen? >> super proud. >> reporter: immigrants gave us especially heartfelt answers. this naturalized citizen from india. >> i used to be very proud. i would say i'm moderately proud now. it makes me heartbroken and hopeful that shall be extremely proud again. >> reporter: those who admit to a slide in their pride tend to blame a president who has wrapped himself in the flag. >> i'd be extremely if trump wasn't president. >> it's a shame. it's disgusting. >> i'm going to put you in the not at all proud to be an american. >> not at all. if i had an opportunity, i would get the hell out of this [ bleep ] country, excuse my french. >> reporter: 32% of democrats told gallup they were extremely proud compared to 74% of republicans. the president's patriotism never flags. >> so many stars.
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if she wasn't my flag, i'd be dating her. >> reporter: jeanne moos, cnn. ♪ god bless the usa >> reporter: new york. >> all right, people, let's be a little glass half full on this fourth of july eve. at least we're still american. thanks for joining us tonight. john berman is in for anderson cooper. "ac 360" starts right now. so in a couple of weeks the man who directed an attack on this country and the man who took an oath to protect it will meet face-to-face. what on earth could shea ever talk about? john berman in for anderson cooper with new breaking news from a bipartisan led senate intelligence committee involving an assessment that russia on orders from vladimir putin waged cyberwar on this country during the 2016 campaign to help get donald trump elected. to be clear, the senate intelligence committee says it happened to hurt hillary clinton and help donald