so that's just craziness. >> tony schwartz, good to have you on again. appreciate it. reminder, don't mess our new interactive daily newscast on fiction fbs you can watch. it's called "the full circle." weeknights at 6:25 p.m. go to facebook.com/andersoncooper full circle. that's all one word. the news continues. i want to hand it over to chris. cuomo prime time starts. >> i like the shirt and black tie. >> i'm copying you. >> are you a neither writes and reads or neither writes nor reads? which would you go with? >> i pronounce it neither it. >> of course you do. of course you do. i'll talk to you later, my brother. thanks, anderson. i am chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time." with the weight of the free world, the u.s. intel community, his cabinet officials, and most of his party pushing the president to stop lying about

rush interference, what does he do? as of today still refusing to forcefully call out putin for ordering the election attack. why? next question. if members of congress are so upset by the reality of trump and putin, what are they going to do? republican jeff flake has harsh words for the president. but what will they do? and just in case you like trump are almost completely immune to the truth about russian interference, how about this? the man the president hand-picked to run the fbi tonight says clearly the mueller investigation is "not a witch hunt." impact. and yesterday it was would and wouldn't. now the white house walks back the word "no." another cover story to clean up. another mess for the president. we've got to get after it. what do you say? let's get after it. all right. clearly president trump is not all in when it comes to keeping

our elections safe from russia or anyone else. so what will congress do? is this sanctions bill that we're hearing about, is it for real? junior senator from arizona republican senator jeff flake joins us tonight. thank you for making it, sir. i know you were on the hop to make the hit. >> thanks for having me on. >> it's good to have you. so let's get right to it. i know you don't like and a lot of your colleagues within your party don't like what has happened over the last few days. yes? >> that's putting it mildly. yes. >> so what do you think will actually be done in response? >> well, chris, just today chris coons and i introduced a bipartisan resolution. this is a non-binding resolution but a sense of the senate. that one, we stand behind the intelligence community and we reject the claims of vladimir putin when it comes to interference in our elections. we know that he did it.

and i wish the president, rather than asking him, would have made the statement, we know you that interfered. so this will put us firmly on the side of our intelligence community. and it will also say that the sanctions that have been passed by congress, by a vote of 98-2, should be immediately and fully implemented. and also it says that we commend the department of justice for the investigation that led to the indictment of 12 russians. we know they did what they did. so i think that's important for congress to state that and we'll bring that up tomorrow. >> it is. it gets you into the feels of it. you know, a resolution is what the kids would call a little bit of meh today. you know, it's not going to actually make anything different. but it's a start in terms of coalescing down there in washington. towards a joint purpose. let's talk about what that purpose may be in light of what you're up against. which is this from the president

today. zw >> you say you agree with u.s. intelligence that russia meddled in the election in 2016. >> and i've said that before, jeff. i've said that numerous times before. and i would say that that is true, yeah. >> he goes slow when he says it because you know he doesn't mean it. he thinks it's bad for him. we're going to have a whole fact-based wall in a second after this interview about what he's done and why it actually happened. he is not going to make any signature move against russia. what can congress do to force his hand? what can congress do to do that without him? >> well, before, last year, when he said that he would veto any sanctions that we placed on russia, we moved ahead and passed something 98-2 in the senate. i think it was 330-2 in the house. >> vetoproof. >> exactly. and he found a way to like it after that, or say that he was for it. so that's what we've got to do,

is pass things with a veto-proof majority. >> is there a chance there will be more sanctions put on russia but by you guys? i know there's a bill walking through right now. when i got off the plane from helsinki, senator, i could almost feel the energy dropping. people were outraged but there's something about president trump where people tend to get over it quickly when he does something. i was thinking maybe this time would be different. what do you think? >> i hope that's not the case. but i've experienced what you've experienced. the same thing. that over time we tend to forget about it and move on. in this case i think this is as dan coats has put it, this is a clear and present danger when it comes to our future elections. i can tell you anybody who sat through a classified hearing does not question that russia has been involved and is still involved in trying to thwart our elections. >> right. >> i hope that that's different. one other thing we can do is the

president seemed certainly a couple of days ago unconvinced, maybe he's changed now, but unconvinced that that indictment of the 12 russians was serious, or that was valid. one thing we need to do, we're not expecting them to be extradited. but what we typically do is put out a red letter which -- and work with interpol that if these individuals travel beyond russia we can get them. >> that's something you can definitely -- you can definitely do that. the executive doesn't oversee that. in truth they've been putting -- they put more energy today into slow-walking a decision as to whether or not to let putin interview u.s. citizens about his own grievances than they did about how they're going to implement the 12. now, let me ask you about one other mechanism. you and i talked about this a little bit earlier today. in terms of leverage the only real leverage coming up is the supreme court nominee. that is the only thing where donald trump needs all of the

gop votes. it's 50-49 going in. i'm assuming, and i hate doing, this i'm assuming that senator mccain won't be part of it. god willing, he is and he can stick it in my face for even questioning whether or not he'd be ready for a vote. hopefully he is. but if he isn't it's 50-49. now, you're a conservative. a real one. kavanaugh is probably going to be appealing to you on that level as a conservative. it is your only point of leverage. people will make the case to you that you should consider that and see what you can get for that vote. are you open to that? >> no. i'm not. when you look at using leverage like this, i have used leverage with circuit court judges but not to move the president. but to move my own leadership here on capitol hill. i was concerned that we were just doing the president's executive calendar, not moving something to the floor like tariff relief. to make sure that the president misusing his authority on section 232 to declare a

national security emergency and impose tariffs on goods from mexico and canada. i said that i would block or not vote for circuit court judges until we had a vote on tariffs. but that was something i could do with my own leadership here, moving them. here you'd have a hard time finding a tangible outcome here. >> you could do the same thing with mcconnell on sanctions. and it's not just gop. i felt the same way about the democrats when it came down to their big moment with the shutdown. i was saying to the democrats, this is your moment, this is your only leverage, what are you going to do with it? the supreme court might give you an opportunity and maybe other gop senators to say to mcconnell you're going to give us a vote on these sanctions. we're going to do something to protect ourselves from russia. or you're not getting my vote on this. you could do that. it takes away the walk versus talk problem that you guys are having. >> i expect that we will get support from senator mcconnell on this issue. remember, we passed the last sanctions 98-2.

>> yes. >> he was a vote in favor of it. so i do think that we'll get it. what we're unlikely to get is a change in presidential behavior. i just don't know what the ask is. do you say to the president, hey, until you start not liking president putin we're going to not pass your supreme court justice? i mean, it's -- you can use leverage here on capitol hill but it's more difficult to use it to move the president on positions. and also to expect conservatives like me to say hey, we're not going to put a conservative on the supreme court or somebody who's qualified, which i feel kavanaugh is. we're going to have having some hearings. i'm going to ask very tough questions when i meet with him tomorrow in my office about things that he's written in terms of presidential authority. i think we'll have a fulsome hearing in the judiciary committee on those issues. >> that's a good one. >> but i think it would be hard to argue that he's not qualified -- >> well, it's a political

decision. you're going to have to have your meetings. i'd love to talk to you after that. because you know, he's out there when it comes to presidential authority. that's the one case he said as a circuit judge hasn't been reported much, he says he can't wait to overturn it. he'd love to be the final nail in overturning that 1988 decision that allowed for an independent counsel. now, of course that's not what mueller is. but it will be interesting to get his thoughts on that. senator flake, thank you for joining us tonight. i know you had to rush. it was important, and i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> all right. sought president kee so the president keeps boasting no one has been tougher on russia than he has. he says that was even true in helsinki. now, i was there, and that ain't true. but what about all the other claims? it is time to test the facts. i'm going to lay them out. you judge. next. ♪ ♪

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whatever your home may hand you, behr through it, in one coat. behr marquee, #1 rated interior paint. guaranteed in 1,000 plus colors. find it exclusively at the home depot. facts first. here is trump's claim. no one has been tougher on russia than he has. of course, this notion falls flat given the helsinki horror show where trump went bad on his own country's intel and equated the united states with russia as moral agents. and his clumsy cover story yesterday where he insisted that maybe it wasn't russia cemented his allergy to the reality. so today he said he doesn't want to get into whether putin lied by denying the interference. but he didn't hesitate to blame all the criticism of this situation, of his breach of trust with you and the country, on fake news. but know this. that too is proof. proof president trump cannot

handle the truth. so let's test his case to you on russia. here it is in short. >> there's been no president ever as tough as i have been on russia. >> back it up, you say. and he says fine. just yesterday the white house put out this long list of everything that they've done against russia. now, this is very imrefpressive. but there's a rule in politics. sometimes when people throw a lot at you it's because they haven't done anything really big. and you know what? that's the truth here as well. how much of this is about election interference and how much of this was spearheaded by trump? now we get the answer by looking at things up close. this one. this is one of the few things that deals with election interference specifically. the trump administration has maintained the closure of two russian compounds and the expulsion of 35 diplomats in response to russian interference in the 2016 election.

why did i underline it? because i like to use the magic wall. why else? because this was done by obama. okay? he's keeping obama's punishment in place. this wasn't his. here's another one. this one is from march. notable. why? because there's an irony here. in march 2018 the administration imposed sanctions against 16 russian entities and individuals for their roles in russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. what else happened at about that time? mueller's team indicted the russian trolls. at the time you heard nothing from trump about that indictment. his treasury secretary had to announce some sanctions. so this was him echoing what had been discovered in the probe that he says is a witch hunt. now, interestingly, in this long list, this one, there's nothing in here about the biggest step the united states has taken so far, the punishing sanctions. why? i'll tell you why.

the bill remains seriously flawed. this was a 98-2 vote by the senate. it was 300 something in the house. it was vetoproof. because they were forcing the president's hand. at the time he said this. "seriously flawed." he hated it. particularly because it encroaches on the executive branch's authority to negotiate. authority to negotiate. what was he talking about? he was talking about what we saw in helsinki. his ability to take it easy on putin. by january trump told congress he wasn't going to impose these sanctions after all, that the threat of sanctions alone was already serving as a deterrent. when the sanctions were finally imposed in march of this year, okay? it was way past the deadlines imposed by congress. then there's another situation that is russia-relevant. syr syria. okay? obama, you'll remember, held off on crossing the red line action. now, i did the first interview with the president after that situation. i pushed him on it hard and for

good reason. if gassing your own people doesn't cross a red line, what does? obama took a different path. he went to congress, he wanted their involvement, they didn't want to dmoig with it because congress is all about giving up its authority to the executive branch. so he did nothing. trump did do something. he hit syria. he bombed them. but. but when it came to hitting russia over their role in syria, what happened? nikki haley was on tv saying this. >> you will see that russian sanctions will be coming down. secretary mnuchin will be announcing those on monday if he hasn't already. >> now, you remember what happened there? the next day the administration suggested she was confused. nikki haley did not like that. she said i wasn't confused, i said exactly what i wanted to say. but ultimately, they all walked it back. why? trump didn't like the idea. he didn't want to go toe to toe with russia on this. the poisoned spies in the uk.

that led to some sanctions. but trump dragged his feet on the initial response. he waited almost two weeks after theresa may said russia did it. trump issued a half-hearted condemnation, saying he would condemn russia or whoever it may be. it was russia. so what has he done that was not forced on him to do? what was a signature move against russia? that's what helsinki was supposed to be. him, mano a mano, strong man versus strong man, and he'll make his mark. he made a mark, all right. a stain on the presidency, on the country, and that's in the word of his critics. so the president now admits that putin must be held responsible for the attack on our electoral system. but you have to listen to why he says this is the case. and then you have the bigger question, about whether congress is going to make a move to limit the president's powers over

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all right. what do you say? let's get after it. it's time for the great debate with ana navarro and steve cortes. good to have you both. steve cortes, here's the proposition. >> thank you. >> i can't trust the president when it comes to putin. i can't trust him to do the right thing. he's done it too many times the wrong way. make the case. >> well, i'll tell you this. i think in your last segment i think you asked for i believe the word you used was the signature move to show that he's serious in confronting russia. i'll tell you the signature move. it was the united states military in syria literally slaughtering hundreds of russian mercenaries in the battlefield. if nothing else tells you that he is serious about taking on russia when it's an adversary to the united states, that certainly does. this is a president who -- and listen, i was critical of his words in helsinki. i thought he had a poor performance at the podium. but his actions are the opposite. and in terms of the actions, and i think there's a lot of actions that show his toughness against russia, i can think of none, though, more serious than actually taking on pair

amilitary forces from russia and, again, slaughtering them in the field of battle in syria. >> all right. the counterfactual is the war is far from over there and president trump wants to pull the people out. but let's take your premise as it stands. ana navarro, is that good enough for you? >> of course not. look, if you take a look at just what's happened in the last seven days, it should be of extreme concern. it should be disturbing. it should be worrying. we should be scared about what's happening here. the breadth and scope of the conspiracy of the russians with the united states, with the elections, with what's going on in our nation is very, very scary. what have we seen in the last seven days? we've seen a debacle in helsinki, a president of the united states slobbering over putin, a murderous, corrupt oligarch. like if he was a poodle. what else have we seen? we've seen a russian spy get detained, arrested, who had worked her way into the nra and other conservative circles and gotten very close to the trump

circles. we have seen for the first time in four years that the state department did not issue a condemnation against russia for the downing of mh-17. the anniversary was two days ago. we have seen that this white house is actually considering, has not absolutely ruled out the idea of turning over an american citizen, a former u.s. ambassador, mcfaul, to the russians for questioning because they want him there? i mean, how much more do you want to see? and this is just in the last seven days. and add to that, you know, what we have seen, the zig-zagging of donald trump on this, you know, failed cleanup attempt on aisle russia. it has been a disaster. and i'm just talking about the last seven days. >> so cortes, let's do one of your favorite things to do. let's play the if obama did it game. if obama had that list of accomplishments over the last seven days, you wouldn't even use his last name. you wouldn't use his first name. you would only call him by his middle name. all you'd be saying is hussein

all the time because you would believe that somehow he had some type of nefarious connection and that's what it was all about. how do you justify it? >> no, i wouldn't be saying that. listen, as much as i disagree with his policies i would never question his patriotism and his love of our country. even though on a mike that he didn't know was hot he promised "flexibility" to medvedev, who said i will transmit that. >> conan the barbarian compared to what we saw in helsinki in terms of the weakness of that move. >> i really believe here's what's going on with ana and with a lot of people on the left right now, is this has become the birtherism of the left. because it really has -- >> racist and bigoted. >> agreed. and so is this. >> where's the racism and the bigotry? >> hold on. chris-i was on record saying it was fake and it was nonsense. it was an attempt to delegitimize president obama because we didn't beat him at the ballot box and the way to counter that is not by resorting

to falsehoods. this is the exact same tactic. >> how? >> because the left still can't get over -- because the left still can't get over -- >> trump lied about russian interference. he said he agreed with putin. >> no. >> he said it might be somebody else. come on, man. >> chris. >> no, no. hold on. >> let me just say this 37. >> that's a key word that -- >> ana -- >> listen, every time you are on, steve, you like to call me part of the left. let me remind you that i have been a lifelong republican. >> well, you are. >> let me remind you that i was a republican -- >> there's a lot of leftist republicans. >> listen, i don't interrupt you. don't interrupt me. you know i can't stand that. i was a republican when donald trump was a democrat. i was a republican when donald trump was independent. the i have supported every republican that's run for president. and i will tell you today that ronald reagan who had the strength of his convictions when he was confronting russia during the cold war, when he was confronting gorbachev, would be rolling over in his grave today if he saw the behavior of donald trump and this administration

and he saw the number of so-called republicans who turned the other way and somehow find a way to excuse this inexcusable behavior. >> look, here's i think the reality. this idea that donald trump is somehow a russian agent, this is the birtherism of the left. it is. i mean, that is the reality of the situation. and why? and let's be honest about this, chris. because you and many people still can't believe that he won in 2016. and -- >> you couldn't believe won in 2016. you didn't think he was -- >> it's not true. >> you didn't think he was going to win. >> it took me a while, but i did in the end, chris. >> like after the results is when you thought he could win. come on, steve. you've got to do better than this. you've never heard me say that trump is a russian agent. i get criticized all the time because i practice this i only know what i show edict. i don't know if it's my legal training or just journalism. i don't get into the speculation about what we know. i just say the probe should end. i'm not saying he's a russian

asset. i'm saying he sat on his asset when he was supposed to be confronting putin. that's why he went there, to be man to man, steve. remember? nobody can be in the room. one on one. and he came out of there and said really bad things that hurt the country. and you know that. so don't put it on me. don't put it on fake news. put it on the president where it belongs. >> i agree with you. and i was very public about that, that i think he performed poorly -- >> well, then don't say we think he's a russian asset. don't say that. it's not true. >> hold on. >> reason people have questions -- >> but this is being says all over -- hold on. >> not here. we're having a reasoned debate. >> reason people -- >> he is -- >> poppycock. >> the reason people have questions is because it is hard to explain. it is impossible to explain and understand this behavior by a u.s. president, to undermine his own u.s. intelligence agencies over and over again. this is a guy who likes to pick a fight with just about anybody. >> true. >> and he picks a fight with dead people. and yet when it comes to putin all we is he is deferential

treatment. >> that's the weird part, steve. >> you have to ask yourself if you're a reasonable person who is not a cult member -- >> that's the weird part. >> what is the reason? it could be he's compromised in some way. whether it's golden showers or laundry -- >> i don't put any stock in any of that stuff, by the way, because i haven't seen any proof of it. but i'm telling you the curiosity is contagious because it doesn't make sense on its face, steve. and you guys think that he's doing the right thing by going on trump tv to the mother ship over on fox where they don't ask him any questions and he gets to lie about whatever he wants and that's good because it reinforces the base. it doesn't expand the tent. it doesn't reassure the american people, the majority of whom did not vote for him, that he has their best interests at heart. and that's where you should be focused, not on blaming me with birtherism. that's nonsense, steve. >> no, this -- i believe this is birtherism. but by the way, he went on cbs news tonight. he's not only going on fox tv. that's an unfair criticism of him. and cbs news has been no friend

to him. >> you think that interview was like what happens when people are on here? you think it's the same standard? you think it's the same job that's being done? you know he picks his venues very carefully. >> i think cbs news has -- look, i'd like him to come on cnn. >> me too. >> i'm a cnn person. i think he can handle it. he'd do great. >> he would. he's his best advocate. no offense. >> yes. and i hope he does. it's one of the reasons he's president, right? >> but all i'm saying is this -- >> here's the thing too. >> go ahead, make your last point. i've got to go. >> when you talk about -- by the way, the american voters, and you say the majority and the popular vote didn't vote for him, that's true. but you know what? the electoral college, which is how we elect our president, which is not insignificant, the reason he won the electoral college vote is he spoke to voters who don't care very much about moscow, russia. they care about moscow, idaho. they care about their wages. they care about jobs. >> that doesn't mean they -- >> moscow, russia cared about the elections. and we have no idea what their influence led to. >> all of those metrics, on all

of those metrics he's succeeding immensely as president. >> he has good things going for him, but they should not be used as an excuse for the bad. >> he has succeeded in carrying vladimir putin's water all over the world. attacking montenegro. >> this is birtherism. >> it's not birtherism. >> when the birtherism was carried out by donald trump? >> i sure did. >> really? >> i'm going to check it. >> yes, i did. thanks to both of you. >> how ironic to throw out birtherism when donald trump is the guy who birthed birtherism. >> this is the birth of irony. ana, cortes, thank you. >> the death of shame. >> we're going to talk to a man now who's very concerned about where america is heading. you know the name. mitch landrieu of new orleans fame. what's he going to do about the troubles that he sees? we'll put it to the former mayor. next.

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with pg&e in the sierras. and i'm an arborist since the onset of the drought, more than 129 million trees have died in california. pg&e prunes and removes over a million trees every year to ensure that hazardous trees can't impact power lines. and since the onset of the drought we've doubled our efforts. i grew up in the forests out in this area and honestly it's heartbreaking to see all these trees dying. what guides me is ensuring that the public is going to be safer and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future. all right. we can't just traffic in the negative. we have to figure out who out there has the ideas. what's going to be done, how do we get better. let's bring in democrat and former nawlins mayor mitch

landrieu. the author of "in the shadow of statues." a white southerner confronts history. mitch, good to have you here. i only call him mitch because he told me top i believe in deference to his elected office but he wants me to. you watched the debate. >> thank you for not putting me on nanl. i don't ever want to be on a panel with ana. she's tough. >> she's tough about but fair. she believes what she believes. >> scleez not a democrat, by the way. >> no. i called her that once when we were in south florida during the conventions. it was a mistake. so the argument zh. you're going after trump because you can't take that he won. this is the new birtherism because really he's great for the country and he's tougher on russia than anyone. do you accept? >> well, of course that's not true. you know, i think all of us, or at least i did, i was against president trump. i did not want him to win. and i'm sad that he did. but like every american, when he ran all of us hoped that the person that's in that office will find a way to be tempered by the majesty and the strength

and the responsibility of that office and actually hoped he was going to get better. we've now seen some 500 days after that it's just getting more complicated and more difficult. one of the challenges that i think we have is we spent a lot of time trying to psychoanalyze the president, why is he doing what he does, it doesn't make any sense. and sometimes if we step back and say actually, just what is it that he's doing. and if you think just in the last 45 days, he tried to kneecap trudeau. i think he backslapped merkel. he tried to undo may. and those are all of our friends and our allies. and at the same time he took a knee to putin. and i think america -- >> it sounds like a ufc match. >> it's kind of a weird thing. but here's what americans have to start thinking about. we expect especially on foreign soil our president to protect our interests. and it appears as though that all of oirnlgs folks have now come to say that russia tried to interrupt our free and fair elections, in other words, a threat to our democracy. that is an enemy trying to hurt our country. and if there was ever a time for our president to battle for us it would be then. he didn't do it. >> instead of --

>> i'm not saying people shouldn't be angry about it. we should. but we ought to start thinking if he's not going to do it who is going to do it? so i wonder as an american citizen where our leaders are. and in the balance of power now shifts to the house and to the senate to basically kind of exercise -- >> what should they do? jeff flake came on and said he and democratic senator coons passed a resolution. that's nice but it doesn't mean anything. >> taz talk. you have to have action. now, obviously the executive is really the power person when we're talking about the chief executive officer. but it doesn't mean congress and the courts can't check the president. it's a weird thing to have them checking the president in a relationship with an enemy. and the public i think is beginning to understand that really simple notion. ana kind of made the point that he seems to be fighting our friends and hanging out with our enemies and it's just a weird thing because i don't feel protected by that and i want him to protect the safety and security of free and fair elections. that's just a fact. the other side can argue all they want. it really isn't consistent with the birtherism movement. there's no racial intent to hurt the president. we're just looking at his

behavior and we're judging his behavior as opposed to where he might be born or his legitimacy. >> that's some talking point that -- >> he is the legitimate president of the united states. democrats freak out about this because he didn't win the popular vote. but he won the electoral -- that's kind of the way it goes. >> right. but i check that all the time, mitch, because first of all, it's counterproductive. you're not going to relitigate the election. it's over. but also, it cheapens the interference in the mueller probe because the president can't separate the two. in part because -- in part because of some democrats who he feels think they're going to get rid of him through this because of what happened during the election. but collusion, who was involved with the russians, relevant, but that it happened at all more relevant he can't separate the two. we saw that play out on the world stage. >> i think a lot of americans saw that the other day and they were humiliated by it. >> it was embarrassing. >> it looked like collusion in motion, which was just really -- it was just interesting. so i think the question people have is if you don't have anything to worry about why are you protecting somebody who is

clearly our enemy while so easily just smacking kids who cross the border -- >> they said because we need russia to fix the worst situations in the world, syria, iran, middle east peace in general, you need them. >> that may be true, but as nations talk to each other there are boundaries and when you come into my yard and try to steal my stuff even if you're helption me cut my grass you've got to say, hey, man, you can't have my barbecue pit. it seems somewhat simple in that regard. but i do think that if the republicans in congress are not going to exert their responsibility to be the balance and the check on the executive, the best thing to do is to change them and then see if congress will exercise their authority. if they don't change them again. because now the president has succeeded this week in uniting the united states of america around this issue. there are other important issues that are always raised, infrastructure, trade, immigration, all of those things are critically important. but congress isn't making much headway on that either. >> he was making ground on nato. i understand why what happened most recently with one of his

fox friends where he was saying, well, montenegro, i don't know that we defend them until they pay in. i get why that is offensive to people who understand international politics and diplomacy. however, to the ear of the american, yeah, i don't want to pay more than they do, they should pay up. it plays well. the economy plays well. >> as it should. >> him telling the allies you guys get too good of a deal off us plays well. >> as it should. everybody should pay their fair share. everybody should honor their responsibility. but beating them into a pulp while at the same time taking a knee to russia when russia tried to actually take our democracy away, people go, well, that's kind of weird. and i think there's a weirdness to it. >> here's the problem for you guys. you think you can beat him? >> i think it's not going to be easy to beat him. and i think the democrats have to be very thoughtful and circumspect about that. independents in the country are now beginning to say do i really feel more secure? is america heading in the right direction? what really does make america great? this strain that's running through this country about nativism and isolationism, everything that i know about

every organization is the more insular you get the more isolated you get, long term you get weaker you don't get stronger. you get smaller, you don't get bigger. so yes, the economy is moving in the right direction. that always benefits the incumbent president. >> 100%. >> we can argue all day long about -- >> and negativity's not -- >> but he's got -- he will good kret and he should get credit for strong economy and the growth. >> and negativity's not enough. 94, sweeping change, took pop out as governor of new york. 2010 after obama. those weren't just negative movements. they weren't just negative reactions to democratic administrations. they were also positive messages of a promise of something better. where are you guys on that? >> first of all, i don't speak for the national democratic party. i'm just a citizen now. i can tell you, this that having run, been in office for 30 years, 16 as a legislator, six as a lieutenant governor, six as a mayor, if you don't give people hope about a better tomorrow -- >> you a reason to believe. >> -- they'll stay where they are. but i can tell you this, we are in fact better when we're doing

stuff together, when we honor our diversity, when we actually bring people in and when we actually grow and do things that are productive. putting people back to work is critically important. when you find a nation that is afraid, they're wet, they're cold, they're hungry tharks scared, demagogues can move them in a strong way. but fudge come up with a hopeful message and say everybody has responsibility, everybody has opportunity, and by the way, we might be doing okay now, but what price glory, how much of our soul do we want to lose, do you actually have to take people's civil liberties away, discriminate against people for a better job, that discussion is not something we had in the last election? we kind of have time to have it now. and that really probably is going to be the talk for the next couple of years. >> two questions. one macro, one micro. the macro one you just asked. at what price do you do what you do? >> there is a price for it. >> the micro is at what price are you willing to pay? i'm going to ask you this question several times between now and the next election. where are you in terms of wanting to get in the race? >> i'm not running. >> 100%? >> well, you never say never. you know that. >> yeah. i say never all the time.

my kid says i want this, my wife says i want this, i say never. >> then you suck up to them and give them what they want. >> that's true. >> but i don't intend to do that right now. you know the world can change. lots of things going on. i think there are going to be a plethora of candidates. having said, that it is absolutely not a fait accompli that donald trump is not going to get re-elected. and i think that when the country starts thinking about what they want to be and we're talking about what really makes america great, how we really can be strong, how we can -- >> that's the best chance you think? >> i think that's the best chance to frame issues. >> so mitch landrieu is not in but you are not 100% out. >> correct. >> politician. >> good one i hope. >> i appreciate it. i'm looking forward to seeing you this saturday, by the way, mitch landrieu. he's going to be on "the axe files" with david axelrod. >> and he told me not to answer any of your questions. zblul answer his. he's a better mind and he's a better interviewer. trump's case needs to be tested when it comes to nato. you heard us talk about this a little bit. what is our responsibility? how is it supposed to work?

look who we have. what a great guest to talk nato. general anthony tata. he knows the law. he knows the reality. he knows what's right. next. ♪ if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months, ... with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. tell your doctor if these occur. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. other side effects include upper respiratory tract infection and headache.

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let's bring in brigadier general anthony tata. general, i'm not going to take a lot of your time. i just have one question. this idea that the united states will back you as a nato ally if you pay your share, is that the right message to send? >> i think any discussion on the threshold on decisionmaking with regard to combat or decisionmaking regarding coming to the aid of a nato member is a good discussion to have, because, if you remember, 9/11 was the first time article v was enacted in our defense, and they employed forces to assist us in afghanistan, early warning and that kind of thing. the president has been consistent in his message, you've got to pay your fair share. >> but the idea that it's an if/then, if you pay, then i'll take your back, that's not the

way it's supposed to work. >> the way it's supposed to work, let's look at what president obama did when france was attacked, when germany was attacked, he flicked lint off his suit. he didn't even talk about article v. france had over 260 people killed in two separate attacks by isis, an enemy we were fighting at the time. and there was zero discussion of implementation of article v. i think it's perfectly valid for the president of the united states now to have a conversation, what is the threshold. >> that's fine, but his threshold is financial. he's not talking about some of the higher concepts that you are. that's why i wanted to bring you in for this conversation. i understand your point, it's just not the point he's making. and it's interesting that making it about money, saying you have to pay into nato, as you know and the audience should know, nobody pays anything, it's about your commitment to your own

defensive preparations. what he's saying goes against one of his main advisers says. listen to what bolton said in 2016 about the idea of what trump is saying right now. >> he offers this hypothetical, if a baltic state is attacked by russia, that he would decide then whether or not to come to their aid, only after reviewing whether these nations have fulfilled their obligations to us. that is an open invitation to putin to attack. >> that's the situation we're in right now. do you share the concern? >> i don't think that's the situation we're in, chris. montenegro, i've been all over the balkans, i've been in bosnia, croatia, montenegro, macedonia, kosovo. montenegro is well-protected. they may have some cyber attacks or whatever. i don't think there's any threat from russia. i think it was just the president being very consistent with his messaging with regard to nato.

member nations must pay their fair share. it makes the alliance stronger, chris, if everybody does. and that sends a message to russia that this is a stronger alliance. meanwhile our military has the largest budget it's ever had. and we are a stronger military. we have exercises going on all across western europe. we're in the face of russia. we have attacked syria, a russian state, for lack of a better term, that russia has a naval base right close to where several of our attacks came in. we killed about 200 russian mercenaries and didn't apologize for it. we just steam rolled right through. we've been very tough on russia. >> i hear are are yyou, general. i'm just saying it's been a mixed picture. i'll have you come back to help us make sense of it. general, thank you. >> thank you, chris. so russia says its

willingness to help the u.s. investigate election meddling is a little contingent on whether or not the trump administration hands over a former ambassador for questioning. crazy talk, right? the white house says "we're considering it," next.

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no, we're not letting you interview any americans. listen, chris, russia is not a democracy in the way of united states is. they don't care about the rule of law. they don't care about due process. and the fact that the president and his administration now are saying they might possibly entertain this, i just think it's really outrageous. i think that most people do as well. intelligence officials are responding, members of congress are responding. this tweet is from eric swalwell, a democratic congressman, he says, take this to the bank, donald trump, you turn over former u.s. ambassador mcfaul, you can count on me and other americans to make you ex-president. >> i still don't think the gop would do anything. he's advancing their agenda and they play to party before anything else. that doesn't make them unusual. the word you used, "absurd," is the same one that heather