hospital tonight. two children and two adults. this area of the ozarks being a popular tourist destination. the governor made a point today of saying that many of the victims of this tragedy were traveling here from out of state. you can see the waters of this lake calm behind me now but severe thunderstorms, again, in the forecast here in southeast missouri tonight, erin. >> horrible thing. kaylee, thank you. thanks to all of you for joining us. anderson starts now. good evening tonight. an exclusive interview with the attorney for alleged russian spy maria butina. the attorney joins us. that's ahead. so is the latest on the mystery surrounding what happened behind closed doors when president trump met vladimir putin. it's a mystery because the white house won't tell us or tell you. in fact, we're getting more from russia than we are from washington. we begin, though, with the president's former personal attorney and longtime fixer, michael cohen. today, we learned he had made tapes of conversations with his client and others and federal authorities have those tapes. they were seized when the fbi

raided cohen including one from september of 2016 when cohen, then-candidate donald trump, were talking about paying off former playboy model karen mcdougal who as you know alleged an affair with mr. trump about ten years prior. while melania trump was pregnant and even after the birth of their son. money above and beyond an arrange nlt with the "national enquirer's" parent company, ami, to buy miss mcdougal's story and kill. this conversation took place two months before the election, september 2016. several weeks later, just a few days before the election, the campaign denied any knowledge of the alleged affair, or the "national enquirer" deal but that's getting ahead of the story. let's start at the beginning as told to me exclusively by karen mcdougal earlier this year. so tell me about your first date. >> our first date, i was told we were going to go to the beverly hills hotel for dinner. so he had told me that keith, his bodyguard, was going to pick me up at a certain time, and he did. and then we were driving over to

the beverly hills hotel, and keith drove around to the back and he said, we have to get out here because we don't want to walk through the hotel. and at that minute, i'm li, lik thinking to myself, are we going to a room? thought we were having dinner at the beverly hills hotel. >> in the actual restaurant. >> right. we did have dinner at the beverly hills hotel but in his bungalow instead. we had dinner for a few hours. we talked for a few hours. we had a great time. we were getting to know each other. we were talking about this birthd birthday. then as the night ended, we -- we were intimate. >> when you got to the beverly hills hotel, and keith said we're not going to go through the lobby, we're going to go -- was it to a -- to a room at the beverly hills hotel or a suite or -- >> it was a bungalow if h back. >> a bungalow. >> it's the one he said he always stayed at, in fact, every time i met them there, it was the same exact bungalow. and he called it the nicest bungalow they had. so i guess that's why he chose that one. but that's, yeah, that's where we went every time. >> well, fast forward to

november 4th of 2016, the "the wall street journal" breaking the story of her allegations and the arrangement with the "national enquirer." spokes person hope hicks telling the "journal" we have no knowledge of any of this. i asked karen mcdougal about it during our interview back in march. hope hicks has said catego categorically you did not have a relationship, there's no truth to this. when you heard that denial, what did you think? >> i think somebody's lying and i can tell you it's not me. it's a little hurtful, but at the same is time, i have to understand, like, if he were to tell hope hicks that he didn't do it, i guess i understand because he's trying to protect his family, his image, things like that. but it was definitely a little, like, wow, you're going to lie about that? okay. >> now, of course, it's possible that hope hicks, herself, was being lied to, but barring that, we now know that four days before the election, the campaign's chief spokesperson was lying to voters. the cohen/trump tape shows

candidate trump was made aware of the "national enquirer" deal at least that september, two months before hope hicks said they knew nothing about it. keeping them honest, perhaps we should have known given team trump's chronic trouble with telling the truth. back in january of this year, of course, spokesman rob shaw said none of the allegations were true. here's the white house press secretary in march. >> look, the president has addressed these directly and made very well clear that none of these allegations are true. this case has already been won in arbitration. anything beyond that, i would refer you to the president's outside counsel. >> a month later, here's what the president said. >> mr. president, did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> no, no. what else? >> why did michael cohen -- >> well, you have to ask michael cohen. michael's my -- an attorney and

you'll have to ask michael cohen. >> do you know where he got the money to make that payment? >> i don't know. no. >> well, a few weeks later his other attorney rudy giuliani said the president did, in fact, pay michael cohen. >> when i heard cohen's retainer of $35,000, when he was doing no work for the president. i said, that's how he's retained? how he's repaying it. with a little profit and a little margin for paying taxes for michael. >> that's giuliani essentially coming clean on the lie his client and people around him have been telling for months. as for karen mcdougal based on what we seen so par, tfar, the has just begun. joining me now, maggie haberman who shares a byline on the breaking story today. there have been two explanations from the president's attorney, from giuliani today, since your story posted. what's his latest explanation for these conversations? and let's talk fast because the story might change again. >> so, we were given an initial

explanation in which he indicated this was a separate payment, that this was a payment to mcdougal that was separate and apart from this arrangement mcdougal had with ami. he called back later to clarify that this was actually supposed -- on the tape, what they're discussing, is obtaining the rights to her story from ami. they are -- giuliani was strenuously denying that this should be construed as a reimbursementme reimbursement, although some i think would interpret it that way. he's adamant that it is not. i think that that has legal implications when it comes to the campaign finance piece of this. and in his telling of it, it was trump who said, let's do this properly and with a check. and it was michael cohen who either had suggested cash or didn't suggest a check in the first place. someone close to cohen has adamantly denied that version of events that suggested that the presentation in which the

then-candidate was saying, let's do this all aboveboard, is not how this went down. we're obviously not going to know without hearing this. the conversation is short. it's around two minutes long. it cuts off at some point before the conversation is done. there are portions of it that are apparently inaudible in the transcript. and it will, you know, i think it will have to be heard, you know, by any of us to really understand what's being said. but what it clearly does, as you say, is undercut what the campaign told "the wall street journal" in october of 2016 which is that they knew nothing about this. that's obviously not true. whether hope hicks who made that statement was aware of that, i don't know. it's very possible that dronald trump didn't tell her the truth. it raises questions about the president's credibility at a time when his folks are trying to undermine michael cohen. >> what's amazing about giuliani's -- both of giuliani's explanations. the first one is this would have been -- they were discussing an additional payment to karen mcdougal. ami was claiming we weren't

paying for her silence, we were paying her for the rights to her story, which we then didn't really believe, so we didn't publish it but we also wanted her to a columnist. if they were discussing just giving another payment to karen mcdougal, that is certainly pretty stunning. i understand why he would call back then and say actually, no, that's not what that was, even though that's what i just said it was. it was actually they were buying the rights to the story. >> that doesn't make much more sense. >> it doesn't make any sense. >> donald trump is not a publisher. >> right, "trump" magazine i think lasted for one or two editions and doesn't exist anymore. >> this would not have been a story you would have seen in it. >> that is also true. >> the distinction in the explanations i think has a legal one, as opposed to a personal one. the personal one, either way, is problematic for the president. there is no landscape in which this is a good thing for him. >> right. >> in terms of -- in terms of what he has said about this before. >> frankly, what makes the most

sense in terms of them paying ami is it does sound -- i mean, what makes the most sense just logically is they are reimbursing ami for doing them a solid of buying karen mcdougal's life rights and so that seems to be what the president, what donald trump would have been talking to his attorney about, not, like, buying her life rights so that they could do something with it or bury them because ami had already buried them. >> well, or it could be that they were trying to buy it just so they had control over it and bury it, themselves, but what i don't think they were trying to do was buy them so that they could tell her story. again, just back to the original point of why someone would own the rights and what you do with them. there is no credible explanation why donald trump would want those, other than to put them on a shelf somewhere. >> yeah. >> so, i think that's where this ends up not making sense. i mean, again, giuliani kept describing this as exculpatory and it may be in the legal sense. i think -- i'm not a lawyer, so

i can't -- i don't know what specifically is said on the tape because we haven't heard it. what we were told by people close to both sides is this is the only -- and this was another point of clarification, initially we were told this is the only audio of them. then we were told this is the only one of substance meaning this is the only one that isn't, you know, call me, call me back, i'll call you. this is the only one that features a conversation of anything that is material to that search warrant on michael cohen in the first place in april. >> and -- and the -- your understanding is that the president had no idea that michael cohen had recorded him? >> no. the president did not know that he was recorded. it's still confusing to me how this recording came to be. why it's so short. and so forth. you know, we know that michael cohen had a long history of taping people, but, you know, he offer to often told people he taped himself as well as reminders of notes or to, you know, to, you know, prompt him about something

in the future when he was trying to do projects or take care of things. we don't know how many recordings were seized. you know, there are a lot of unanswered questions with this, but what is clear is the timing of the recording is evidence that the president had to have known about -- >> right. >> -- karen mcdougal and those payments when his campaign was saying that's not true. >> right. then that is essentithe big hea. maggie haberman, thank you. joining us is former federal prosecutor, jennifer rogers. john dean who has his own stories to tell about pivotal tape recordings obviously. criminal defense attorney and cnn legal analyst, mark geragos. jennifer, there's a lot of back and forth of whether or not the recordings are good or bad for the president. giuliani is trying to paint them as exculpatory. what do you make of that? i guess it comes down to the tail of t tale of the tape. if the president knew of the payoff, certainly, previously,

at the very least, it shows his canal pain w campaign was lying. >> well, that's right. there are a couple things that are interesting here as a legal matter. one is that the recording is apparently in the hands of the investigative team now. the prosecutors and the fbi who were doing the michael cohen case. that means it's not privileged. so it's been handed over. so it's either not privileged in the first place, meaning there was no legal advice being sought, or the crime/fraud exception applies meaning the privilege has been vitiated. that's interesting. it means it's usable in court. it's not going to be excluded on privilege basis. number two, this is a campaign finance violation, almost certainly, as you pointed out, we don't know exactly what is on the recording, but here is the president and michael cohen talking a couple of months before the election about getting a benefit for that -- for the candidate, and that is to keep quiet cakaren mcdougal. so it's making it look more and more like the facts are there for a campaign finance violation. it's unlikely that will ever be brought, but if nothing else, this will probably be spelled out in mueller's report which

goes to the house for whatever they may do with it. >> john, i mean, a campaign finance violation really, i mean, normally what -- it's basically a fine, if he even -- i guess the federal election commission can refer it to the department of justice, but it's -- there's democrats and republicans on and they all have to unanimously agree. and that seems unlikely. >> that is unlikely. it's a body that is almost totally dysfunctional in doing anything. that wouldn't preclude necessarily a prosecutor looking at a campaign act violation, but not likely. so this is not -- you know, this doesn't look like a major item to trade some sort of crime and some sort of immunity for mr. cohen. >> yeah. >> i'm not quite sure why this was floated when it was and particularly when maggie added that this is apparently the only substantive recording he's got. >> that's what giuliani is

claiming. >> yes. that's what giuliani is claiming. >> john, it's so -- >> we don't know if that's true. >> as someone who so famously flipped on president nixon, considering how loyal cohen claimed to have been to donald trump, what do you make of the reporting of president trump's reaction to the recording saying i can't believe michael would do this to me? >> well, i've heard other stories where he was well aware as he told erin burnett one time in an interview that he was in the real estate business in new york and everybody secretly recorded everybody. so i don't think he was particularly shocked. he might not have thought that michael cohen would have done it because he was -- had a legal relationship, attorney/client relationship, but i must say also the new york city bar during many of the years that michael was working for him had made an exception for attorneys recording conversations. >> so, mark, i mean, there's been a lot of discussion about the expectation of attorney/client privilege between president trump and cohen. just the fact that the

president's current attorney, giuliani, is out there talking about the details of the tapes and to jennifer's earlier point, i mean, already, i guess, any attorney/client privileges have been deemed either not to apply here, or invalidated because of the nature of the discussion. >> remember, trump had lawyers who went into that courtroom, and i believe it was judge wood's courtroom. they were able to successfully get a special master appointed. so somebody ruled or looked at everything that was seized which is normally not how it operates in the federal system. usually, you have a dirty team and a clean team. here they had a special master which was a retired judge who either ruled that it was a crime fraud or ruled that it wasn't privileged. and rudy giuliani would obviously have access to the list or the privileged log that was submitted by both of all of the lawyers on the respective

side. so i think what he's doing here, he's trying to spin it as exculpato exculpatory. i can understand in a legal sense why he's saying it's exculpatory. he's saying that, look, all of this shows is that in real-time, the president didn't know that the payoff was happening and they were discussing something after the fact. it doesn't take away from the fact, i don't -- i'm not as familiar with the new york city bar rules that john just referred to, but there is something entirely reprehensible to a client about their lawyer recording them unbeknownst to them. i mean, the wohole idea of attorney/client privilege, you're supposed to have a client be able to unburden themselves, tell you everything that they want to tell you and get your best advice. if i'm doing that with a lawyer who then when he's caught in the crosshairs is turning that over, leaking it, or releasing it and commenting on it, that does some great damage to the attorney/client privilege.

and as somebody -- i don't care how you take what your view is on trump, there's something that's just unseemly about the fact that these recordings, attorney/client conversations. >> jennifer, i mean, you know, the more someone always says, well, i'd take a bullet for you, i'd be loyal to the end to you, the less i believe them. i mean, people who generally are like that don't actually have to say that over and over and over again. and certainly, if you really are that loyal, you don't record secretly the person you're talking to. >> yeah, it is very strange. i think the president has a right to be angry. i mean, unfortunately, for the president, it's not a legal defense. he can't keep the recording out just because, you know, michael cohen shouldn't have done it. but that's right. and cohen is now in a position of having to decide what's he going to do? is that loyalty that would have him take a bullet enough to send him to prison for years and have him do that? that's what he's deciding now, and i think we'll know fairly soon here, as soon as charges are filed, which way he's decided to go on that. >> john, the circumstance

certainly different between what you went through in watergate, do you see parallels in your situation and what michael cohen is thinking? >> there are. he has to make a decision if he's going to come forward and tell the truth. i happened to make that decision when the cover yun w-up was goi internally in the white house and broke rank. he's at that point right now. my advice to him would be to break rank and tell truth. >> john dean, mark geragos. coming up, why would russia's special counsel robert mueller want to from a woman who once ran a high priced new york call girl ring? known as madam manhattan. we'll ask roger stone. late e the interview you'll only see here, the attorney for the alleged russian spy joins us to talk about his client. to boo. with expedia's add-on advantage, booking a flight unlocks discounts on select hotels until the day you leave for your trip. add-on advantage. only when you book with expedia.

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learning about this? >> anderson, as you said, we have learned today that special counsel robert mueller has made contact with the lawyer representing kristin davis. as you said, she's a woman that some members of the public might better know her as the manhattan madam. she was ran a high-end prostitution ring in new york city. if you recall, she actually went to jail as a part of the prostitution scandal that took down former new york governor eliot spitzer. now, if there's going to be a subpoena that mueller and his team hand down to kristi in, davis, this woman, that has not yet happened. we got in touch with the lawyer who would be representi ining hf that happened. now, we do not know at this point why the special counsel, robert mueller, is interested in talking to thisle wo woman. certainly a really intriguing and unexpected twist in this robert mueller investigation. >> she also has a connection to roger stone, who was obviously

at a time an adviser on the president's election campaign. >> that's right. at this point in time if we were to make an educated guess, that might be one reason why robert mueller and his team are interested in talking to kristin davis. the two have known each other for a long time. roger stone is actually the godfather to her child. davis actually did some work were roger stone including, i'm told, doing some clerical work including some work related to his websites. now, mueller, of course, as we all know, has been very interested in roger stone, and has also taken an interest in some of the aides that have worked for roger stone in the past. so, again, this might be the connection and the reason for his interest. now, i do want to read a statement that we got earlier today from kristin davis' lawyer. it said, "kristin davis and roger stone are very good friends and she has worked on and off for him for the last ten years. roger is the godfather to her son. she is currently in the cosmetology business and she knows nothing whatsoever about russian collusion with the 2016 election." now, obviously, you can see there that she's trying to sort

of get ahead of the story and make it very, very clear from the get-go that she knows nothing that robert mueller might be interested in. >> m.j. lee, thanks very much. joining us nonow is roger stone. thank you for being back on the program. so with mueller wanting to talk to kristin davisi, it would be the third ex-associate that's been caught up in this investigation. do you think you're a target of this investigation and that's why they want do talk to miss davis? >> i have no idea, thank you for having me back, anderson. first of all, last week's indictments made pretty clear i had no advanced notice of the alleged hacking of the dnc, received no materials from guccifer 2, the russians or no one else, passed no material on to donald trump or wikileaks or julian assange or anyone else. now, kristin davis is a good friend of mine. she's a brilliant woman who has paid her debt to society. i always thought it was unfair

that she went to prison after the fall of eliot spitzer and he went to cnn to host a tv show. she has remade her life. she was not working for me during 2015. she worked for me during a portion of 2016. she went back to school to learn i.t. skills. she has helped me build some websites, but she has no knowledge whatsoever of any russian collusion, collaboration with wikileaks, or anything else improper having to do with the 2016 recollectioelection. >> can you see any situation where they want talk to her that doesn't have something to do with you? and on top of that, i guess has mueller's office been in contact with you or your attorney? >> i cannot imagine anything other than that question. she has been an associate of mine for over ten years. she's someone i have great affection for. i am, as m. jj. lee reported, t godfather to her son. she's a single parent.

she's now in the cosmetology business. >> so would she have been handling e-mail -- sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt. would she have been handling e-mail correspondence, things like that, that would be of interest to mueller? >> at this juncture, mr. mueller has had full access to my e-m l e-mails, therefore, he's well aware that there's no evidence whatsoever, not in the o possession of kristin davis or andrew miller, another associate of mine who's resisting a subpoena from mr. mueller, or anyone else of collusion with the russians, collaboration with wikileaks or any other inappropriate act. in my view, in all honesty, this is a phishing expedition. perhaps it is the payback for the fact that i broke the story yesterday on infowars that tony podesta has been -- that the special counsel has asked for immunity for him in the manafort investigation. or the manafort prosecution.

i know that has not yet been reported on cnn, but i reported it yesterday at infowars. i have multiple sources. fox has also reported it. i believe it to be true. perhaps this is payback for that. >> sam nugburg, a former trump aide, onetime close associate of yours was asked by the hollywood reporter what's next for you? he said roger is going to be indicted, he's a critical piece for mueller. obviously nunberg doesn't have inside knowledge into mueller's thinking or his operations though he did talk to mueller. do you think he's right? do you think you'll be indicted? >> mr. nunberg has no evidence wikileaks collaboration. sam is a very smart guy. i think he has substance abuse problems and, frankly, i think responsible members of the media should be very, very careful when they take what he says at face value. >> lastly, you told "the new york times" in regards to michael cohen, quote, donald goes out of his way to treat him

like garbage. now that we know cohen was recording at least some conversations with his client and also vowed to be loyal to his family and country, do you think michael cohen is out for revenge on the president? >> in all honesty, i have not had a chance to follow the developments of the day. i know that michael cohen wanted very badly to be in the president's presidential campaign. he was not. hi wanted very badly to be in the president's white house. he was not. i honestly do not know what he knows and whether any of it is detrimental to the president. i'm going to go by what mayor giuliani is and believe this is benign, but i have no special knowledge to the contrary. >> roger stone, appreciate you being on. thank you. >> thank you very much. it's now day four since the helsinki summit ended. senior u.s. officials including the nation's top intelligence officer are saying they don't have any idea or concrete idea of what was actually discussed between president trump and vladimir putin. russ russia says agreements were reached.

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breaking news now about the invitation to vladimir putin from the white house to come to washington. yesterday, director of national intelligence dan coats learned about the invitation while talking to andrea mitchell on the stage at a conference in aspen. a source familiar with what took place said white house aides talked to coats' staff 45 minutes before his appearance but didn't inform coats of the invitation because the press staff on site had not yet been told. four days and counting since the helsinki summit ended, four days and counting since we've been in the dark about exactly what happened when president trump and putin met behind closed

doors. four days we asked for a readout as they say in white house press speak and got nothing, and no, the director of national intelligence didn't know anything about that, either. >> i don't know what happened in that meeting. i think as time goes by, president has already mentioned some things that happened in that meeting, i think we will learn more, but that is the president's prerogative. if he had asked me how that ought to be conducted, i would have suggested a different way, but that's not my role. that's not my job. so, it is what it is. >> again, that's america's chief intelligence officer saying he doesn't know what was discussed between the two men. interestingly, perhaps not surprisingly, russian officials continue to say they are delighted by what took place and say there are agreements reached between the two sides. the question, of course, is what agreements? since we're not getting answers from the white house, yes, we've asked, we're going to have to go to moscow for answers because that's where we are now. matthew chance is there. so, matthew, we still don't have

any readout from the white house, what are you hearing from russian officials? >> well, to be fair, anderson, we haven't had a readout, either, from the kremlin in terms of the sort of usual readout we'd expect after a big, important summit like this. just general characterization of the summit as being positive. vladimir putin, the russian president, said that there had been useful agreements that had been made there. but having said that, there have been a number of sort of, you know, kind of revelations that have trickled through for various other russian officials, the russian defense ministry, for instance, has spoken about the two presidents in helsinki discussing security arrangements internationally. arms reduction treaties. deals over syria. things like that. the russian ambassador to the united states, he was briefly in moscow to attend a meeting here in the russian capital, said

that there have been concrete agreements on eastern ukraine. and local media reports have spoken about how vladimir putin, again, the russian president, has spoken to ambassadors about the possibility of holding a referendum in eastern ukraine to decide the future of that sort of war-torn region. and so, you know, that's the kind of, you know, revelation that we've had come to us via, bleakle from russian officials but no firm read yout of the kind we'd expect. >> it's fascinating that vladimir putin made this offer about mueller's team going to mosc moscow, and then russian intelligence agents coming here and being able to sb interview u.s. fiofficials, interrogate u. officials that the president, apparently, i assume in one-on-one meetings and publicly talking about sounded like a great idea, sounded like really

interesting or something to really seriously be considered, when most russians out of hand said that would never -- that should never happen. and now the white house has walked that back saying, well, the president doesn't think it's a good idea. >> it was -- i was in that press conference, and it was absolutely fascinating and horrifying, frankly, as we discussed earlier, to see the u.s. president in such a sort of, i suppose, submissive kind of role in that relationship. the expectation was, even amongst trump's critics, is that -- was that he was going to, you know, make a stand, at least, you know, kind of, you know, talk about all the areas of conflict between the united states and russia. but he didn't do that and he even submitted when it came to that suggestion that the united states basically give up several of its key figures for interrogation by russian

authorities. and i think the sense here in moscow is that, you know, may have gone well on the surface, but did it go too far? is there a possibility of a backlash in the united states? the kind of backlash that we're seeing already that could place a further strain on relations between moscow and washington? >> interesting. >> so, you know, there are mixed feelings here in moscow, i think it's fair to say. >> matthew collapse, appreciate it. thank you very much. a lot to discuss with former cia officer steve hall. david axelrod, obviously key aide to president obama. david, was there ever a time you remembered president obama meeting one-on-one for more than two hours with somebody who is in an adversarial relationship with the united states and the public not having any information about what was said? >> all the meetings that he had that i know of were read out to the public. he had lengthy meetings with -- with people in foreign

governments. he had a lengthy meeting with putin in 2009 that was -- when putin was prime minister. not when he was president. it was the regular practice of our administration and every administration to read these meetings out, but more importantly, anderson, it was certainly the practice of this administration to have people monitor these meetings, and to make sure that key national security advisers and cabinet members were advised after the meetings of what happened, and were instructive or involved in prepping the president before the meeting. so everything about this was unusual and troubling. >> steve, in the absence of the white house providing an account of what happened or the state department, it's really the russians are the only ones kind of doing the talking. has the u.s. lost the ability to control the narrative here? and how does that impact the relationship? >> it does, indeed, seem that

the russians now control the narrative, which is obviously never a good thing. we're getting dribs and drabs of information. i was just reading something that there was the possibility that there was a discussion where the russians were pushing the president on not allowing ukraine in georgia, any plan for nato ascension. you know, that's obviously a very serious policy issue. not to mention all the issues with regard to syria and some very valid issues that need -- and complicated issues, such as, you know, ies and so forth. all of that stuff needs to be out there. there's no reason really for it not to be out there. experts need to take a look at it. congress needs to take a look at it and it let the russians be the ones who do this is a recipe for disaster because, of course, they will spin it. they have no -- there's no open and free press in are russia, so there's no advantage to the united states for that. it's another situation where i think the united states is lost out of this particular summit.

>> david, yesterday it was announced the white house extended the invite to putin. in terms of the politics of it especially in the fall, i don't know if it's going to be before the midterm elections or after the midterm elections, if putin accepts the invitation before the midterm elections, and comes, does that create a huge problem for congressional republicans? i mean, won't they have to answer questions of whether they support the president's decision to host the man who -- >> yeah, i'm sure. >> -- not only attacked america but continues to attack the country's democracy according to the intelligence services? >> i'm sure the news of thisgred enthusiasm in the republican cloakrooms on capitol hill, anderson. look, this has been a terrible week. the republican party coalesced, at least the rank and file according to polls have largely coalesced behind the president. independent voters have been deeply troubled by this. obviously, democratic voters, and in many of these swing districts, this is an unhelpful issue. you see will hurt, for example, from texas, who's a former cia officer, has been very outspoken

on this. he's in a very tough race in a swing district. there's a reason beyond his professional sense of outrage or whatever he feels about this that he's speaking out. it's because it is a political liability for him. so, you know, it's trump's habit to double down when he has a disaster, to be defiant about it. this invitation seems to be -- seems to be part of that pattern, but from a political standpoint, i have to believe that mitch mcconnell, paul ryan, and others are urging him to postpone any kind of meeting until after the election. >> steve, do you -- i think -- i don't think it was you, i think it was ralph larson on the program a couple nights ago who said that he wouldn't be surprised if the russians had a recording or transcript of what went on in that meeting one-on-one. do you think that's possible? and if so, how would -- how would that have happened? >> yeah, no, it's absolutely possible, and something we would have agreed on. the russians certainly have

capability to do that, in a very private meeting like that, it's child's play for the russians to get audio and video on this. it can be used for a number of different things. >> i guess for the u.s., too, then. >> it's possible for the u.s., but then, of course, you have to ask the question, the guy who makes the decision as to whether or not there's clandestine taping going on is the most senior guy in the room. on our side, donald trump, on their side, vladimir putin. in a meeting like this, it would seem to me it would be much to the benefit of vladimir putin to clandestinely record this stuff so he could later trot things out and shape the conversation, say, actually the president said this and here's the clip. so, you know, yeah, makes all sorts of sense that they would do that. they don't have to. they could keep it to themselves. but, yeah, it's certainly possible and could be very useful for them in the future politically. >> i guess given that one of the reasons the president allegedly didn't want to have other people in the room is because he didn't want leaks. i guess since he doesn't trust the intelligence community, he wouldn't want the intelligence community bugging that room and having that tape for that very

reason. >> now the russians -- now the russians can leak it for, you know, for him, for themselves. >> steve hall, david axelrod, thanks. a quick programming note, catch david axelrod and "the axe files" saturday night 7:00 p.m. on cnn. up next on "36 0" a woman sits in a washington jail tonight accused of being a kremlin spy and attempting influence american politicians. she's entered a plea of not guilty. coming up, i'll talk exclusively to her attorney about the charges against her. dear great-great grandfather, you made moonshine in a backwoods still. smuggled booze and dodged the law. even when they brought you in, they could never hold you down.

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pleaded not guilty to charges of conspiracy and acting as a covert russian agent. the russians set up a hashtag in their defense. her onetime poifboyfriend, paul erickson, adds to the intrigue. it's not clear where he falls into the alleged scheme. prosecutors suggest he may have been manipulated by butina who's half his age. joining me exclusively, maria but butina's lawyer, robert drisc driscoll. i want to read one between ther and the russian official she was communicating with immediately after donald trump won the election. she writes, "i'm going to sleep, it's 3:00 a.m. here. i'm ready for further orders." the rulgs russian official says "think about it. isis, understandably, what else we need to look at the american agenda." you say your client isn't a russian spy. why is she asking for further orders? >> i think that like most of the government's case is taken

completely out of context. the twitter direct messages, by the way, most russian spies don't speak by twitter messages which are unencrypted. there are thousands of them between them. twitter direct message about picking up toothpaste in america, direct messages of pictures of kids and dogs and everything else. they both had an affinity for better american/russian relations. that tcertainly he wasn'wasn't purpose of the trip to the u.s. >> here's the other thing the government says they have, they flagged several direct messages between her and the russian official, your client talks about going, quote, underground, going incognito and having to be quiet and careful. the government alleges the messages show her acting in a covert manner. to that, you say? >> again, maria never said she was anyone other than who she was. she always said she was a russian. she said she worked with al

alexander to arrshin. friends with him, assisting limb him in his endeavors. any discussion of them underground or covert, versus conferences, or have more private dinners. >> it's interesting for someone w who's alleged to be a spy, from what i read from accounts of people at the university with her, she had a picture of vladimir putin on her phone and often spoke in defense of vladimir putin in class, which if she was trying to be incognito and be here as a spy, i'm not sure that -- it seems she'd have a high profile in defense of vladimir putin. i think if i was a spy for vladimir putin, i would actually go the opposite way and kind of downplay my like of vladimir putin. >> i actually asked her about that today. i read about it, i think cnn, the story about the phone cover. it's a picture of vladimir putin shirtless on a horse. so, you can imagine, you know,

she had as a gag. she's the russian student and everyone knew she was a russian student. so she had -- >> i'm saying it actually argues in your favor in this case which is, like, if she's trying to have a cover position -- >> exactly. >> -- it seems odd she would be publicly out there promoting vladimir putin positions in a classroom. >> she was head of a -- she was well known in russia before she even came here. she's been getting publicity since she's been in the u.s. for well over a year. if she were a spy, her relationship with torshin was disclosed in articles online over a year ago. >> so -- >> according to the government's theory, her cover was born over a year ago and she didn't leave. >> let me ask you, paul erickson, the man she had a relationship with, is he the u.s. person number one named in the indictment? it seems like he is. >> i'm not going to confirm nor deny that here. >> okay. >> i think you're on the right track. >> can you sigh exactly what her relationship with erickson was, was she using him to gain access to the nra, to republican elite?

>> no, i mean, i think that they have a personal romantic relationship. and they have for about five years and they attended lots of events together over time. >> was she using sex as a means to manipulate erickson? there was some indication -- there was one report she complained about being -- >> no. and i think it's very unfortunate, the government kind of dropped those allegations without any evidence the other day in open court. i vehemently asked the government for any support for those allegations about trading sex for things because i frankly find it kind of offensive just because she's an attractive woman that that's the direction people go in. i haven't seen any evidence of that and >> well, i think someone from the school said the men she hung out with seemed to be above 60 which sort of struck them as odd. but there were handwritten notes found in her apartment. in particular, one said how to respond to fsb offer of employment. how do you explain that? >> i believe those notes were found in another apartment of

person one. >> right, in person one's handwriting. >> in person one's handwriting. i don't think it's up for her to explain that. but i will say this. that as -- >> the fsb is offering full employment either to subject number one, who she's in a relationship with, or to her, that's certainly again raising questions. >> i think that anyone who is russian has to meet with the fsb when they go back and forth and frequently is asked at the airport what they're doing in america, if they had any information for the fsb. what would happen if the fsb approached her gun rights group or not group. i think those kind of things were discussed by her. >> but talking about employment, if the fsb is talking about full employment, that's of concern, no? >> again, and if there were any evidence she was employed by the fsb, you know, but there's just -- there's just none. >> have you ever represented erickson? >> no. >> and so bottom line, in terms of what your clients want, is it

a plea deal, a return to russia? something else? >> my client's innocent of the charges. so what she wants to be is we're going to establish that the government cannot prove the case here. the government has brought a case into the foreign registration act, which by the way, no one was ever prosecuted under. essentially it's a registration statute saying if you're going to do certain activities in the country, you have to register with the attorney general of the united states. so they're acknowledging that everything they did is legal under u.s. law. >> i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. let's check in with chris and see what's coming up on "cuomo prime time." it's an interesting distinction legally between being innocent and the government not being able to prove a case. usually lawyers avoid the word "innocent" because it means you know for a fact your client did absolutely nothing wrong. usually there's an ethical hurdle that comes with that. tonight bewe're going to be takg

a look at the cohen tapes, what they mean, what they don't mean, and why they're coming out now, which, surprise, surprise, i don't think is a coincidence my friends. we're going to take people through that and talk about what vladimir putin did with his first chances to prove a friend to trump. that's the show tonight. >> all right. seven minutes from now. thanks very much. just ahead, a look at the cnn special report, the trump show, tv's new reality. that airs at 10:00 p.m. eastern. brian stelter is the host. he joins us with details next. ds the plan they want, without paying for things they don't. jet-setting moms can video-chat from europe. movie-obsessed teens can stream obscure cinema. it's like everyone gets their own flavor of unlimited. (chuckles) it's a metaphor. simile, not a metaphor. hm. well played. (vo) one family. different unlimited plans. starting at $40 per line. buy one of our best phones and get one free when you switch. all on the network you deserve. for my constipation, my doctor recommended i switch to miralax. stimulant laxatives forcefully stimulate

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at 10:00 p.m. eastern tonight, a new cnn special report, the trump show, tv's new reality. here's a quick look. >> in the trump era, last minute script changes are the new reality for scripted tv. >> we will see what we will see. >> there's this impulse to be relevant and to comment on what's going on. >> alex ganza is the co-creator

of homeland. >> when a story breaks do you talk about that, how to make that a part of show? >> it's the first thing we discuss every morning in the story line, especially now when the news cycle is so crazy. >> breaking news, defending putin. >> breaking news tonight, a stunning shake-up at the white house. >> is this something germane to the story that we're telling? >> a porn star and a major staff departure, just another day in the trump white house. >> we were all utterly, utterly blown away. we are all trying to adapt to trump's american. >> veteran show runner a line shaken. >> is it fair to say hollywood is a hub of the so-called resistance? >> it's no secret that hollywood leans progressive and there's a certain dangerous presumption that everybody that walks into the room is going to share your politics, and not everybody does. >> people feel insulted. >> journalist selena zito. >> people in the middle of the country believe that hollywood only portrays things in a certain way, as though they are the butt of the joke. that their views aren't respected.

>> i'm joined now by brian stelter, host of reliable sources. it is fascinating to see this. i mean it's not only the trump presidency has changed the way we cover news. the news cycle itself just is amped up in a way, the speed of it now, it's not like anything i've ever seen. >> yeah. that affects hollywood as well as us in the cable news world. it affects these show runners producing sitcoms and dramas who normally didn't care much about what was going on in washington, but now there's this pressure, partly from the audience, to be reacting to what's going on in the real world. >> it's hard to compete there. a lot of this stuff seems like it comes out of hollywood, and yet, you know, they risk being left in the dust if they do a storyline and then, you know, the next week a whole new turn has taken place. >> that's been a through line in these conversations. which spent months talking to tv's top producers, as well as critics who watch all these shows. they have said there have been a number of times they have to rewrite scripts.

for example, on cbs's the good fight, there was a reference to stormy daniels suggesting she was just a flash in the pan. people moved on. well, as had been made clear, people have not moved on from those stories. avenatti always in the news. they had to rewrite that plt line, change that part of the script. that's happening all the sometime now. on the comedy side, we're seeing so many jokes at the president's expense. perhaps too many. it is clear in left-leaning hollywood, they do feel they're part of the resistance. >> i'm wondering if there's a fatigue factor in hollywood either among viewers, people want a break from that? >> there's always a desire for escapism. because we live in this age of peak tv, there's something for everyone. there's more shows than ever talking about the president, taking him on. there are also plenty of shows in the opposite direction. look, i've been wanting to binge watch the americans on fx. it recently ended. it's all about russia, all about the cold war. it feelsic lie could learn a thing or two from it now. there's a lot of shows like that that help you process the day's

news. >> look forward to it. 10 tonight. the trump show, tv's new reality. 10:00 p.m. eastern right after chris cuomo. don't miss our new interactive on facebook. you can watch full circle. go to facebook.com/anderson cooper full circle. that's one word. i'll see you there on monday again at 8:00 p.m. on cnn. the news continues. i'll hand it over to chris and "cuomo prime time." good news. we designed "cuomo prime time" to do exactly what stelter was saying, process the day's events. anderson, have a great weekend. i am chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time." secret recordings of president trump taped by his longtime lawyer and fixer now in the hands of the fbi. juicy. but why are we learning about them now? that's the real story tonight, and we are all over it. we also have the good, the bad, and the ugly of what the tapes could