this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. today on the show, the wall. specifically the one president trump wants to build between the united states and mexico. he tweeted about it again this week threatening to shut down the u.s. government over it. >> nobody builds walls better than me, believe me. >> i'll get the view from the other side of the border. my guests will be mexico's foreign minister. and the united states and iran,

this week began with president trump saying he might sit down with the islamic republic's leader. >> i would meet with iran if they wanted to meet. >> and ended with iran's show of force in the all important straits of who mhormuz. where will relations go from here? put down your popcorn and pay attention. >> ladies and gentlemen, we are about to begin our descent into los angeles. >> why are the first few minutes of so many great movies so important? my favorite college professor will explain. >> but first here's my take. donald trump campaigned as someone who wanted to get america out of the middle east. but he also casts himself as a tough guy and his initial instincts in office would show force in america's war zones, added troops, more aggressive rules of engagement, bigger bombs. now we get reports that the

trump administration is searching for a negotiated settlement with the taliban. however, meandering the road, the administration is on the right path. but it is a very difficult one to navigate. the war in afghanistan which began in 2001 is already the longest military operation in american history. both the bush and obama administrations saw a way out of afghanistan but found it difficult to leave and declare victory. the simple reality was the taliban inextrickably advanced putting the democratic elected government in kabul, friendly to the u.s., in mortal per iperil. it was also clear that other countries, regional powers like india, china, russia, would fill the vacuum. yet the united states cannot stay in afghanistan forever. our presence distorts american foreign policy tieing significant resources to an area

of limited national interest to americans. and it also creates an inevitable dependency for the fragile afghan government. america is spending $45 billion a year or security and economic aid for afghanistan. that is more than double afghanistan's entire gdp. so what is the right exit strategy? barn net ruben argues any political settlement will be extremely difficult and require negotiations with both the taliban and regional powers. the central reality washington must come to grips with is that it will to allow the taliban a more formal role in power share. a pair of scholars observed historically the key to ending inurgencies has been to accommodate in a new political order. ruben offered guidelines for a possible pathway to a political settlement. don't let the u.s. military be

the lead negotiator as he cautioned because their stark message to the insurgents to john nickelson has made clear, reconcile or die. ruben said this is not the way to start a dialogue with people who's entire culture is organized around personal and collective honor, which by the way is a much bigger factor in this war than so-called extremist islam. he added it's obvious that this conflict has no purely military solution, even maintaining the current military involvement requires better political ties with afghanistan's neighbors. look at a map, ruben said, afghanistan is land locked and america needs supply roots. the three countries that could help with access are pakistan, russia and iran. and we have bad relations with all three. ruben's chief advice is to work hard at diplomacy and recognize other countries have an interest in afghanistan and engage them, a successful outcome is entirely

dependent upon involvement from india, pakistan and russia and iran. so washington cannot keep fan at a sizing about overthrowing the iranian regime. it has to decide how much would involve india, which would shift the landscape all together. this is the difficult painstaking work of diplomacy that the trump administration so far tried to ignore, demean and defund. but if the president actually wants to extrick ate america from the unending wars, this is the only way out. for more, go to cnn.com/fareed and read night "washington post" column this week. let's get started. >> another day, another head scratcher tweet from donald j. trump. this time about immigration. it read in part, i would be

willing to shut down government if the democrats do not give us the votes for border security which includes the wall. the wall has been a long time obsession of sorts for the president of the united states. listen to what he said in june of 2015. >> i would build a great wall and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me. and i'll build them very inexpensively. i will build a great, great wall on our southern border and i will have mexico pay for that wall. mark my words. >> what is the status of the wall from the mexican perspective? joining me now is mexico's foreign minister, louis viterguay. >> nice to be back. >> the need for the wall was even more urgent now because of the dramatic rise in crime in mexico. how do you respond to that? >> well, first of all, it's -- it's not a mexican issue. it's not part of the bilateral

conversation to talk about a wall. we understand american sovereignty and it's full right to protect its own borders but we will not allow such an issue to define the relationship. we need to see through our differences. the mexico/u.s. relationship is essential for both countries. we're neighbors and do a lot of trade. we share 3,000 kilometers border. and we need to work together and that's how we've been approaching this in a constructive serious way. and definitely the border will not allow -- we will not allow the border to define the relationship. it's not for mexico or mexicans to decide on the border. certainly it's an idea which is not a friendly one. i personally don't think it would -- it would work particularly well for the interest of the or objectives of the united states but it's not -- it's not part of the conversation and should not be. >> what do you make of his

argument that the reason we need it is because crime is running ram pant in mexico? >> president trump has been talking about the wall for three years now. and he said we have not carried on the relationship through twilt twitter. we don't negotiate our agreements through social media. we do it through diplomacy and serious way and construction way. it's definitely not an issue we should allow the relationship to be defined by. >> do you have any sense from your negotiations with them as to whether they have ever brought up the issue of mexico paying for the wall in a serious way? in other words, is there any proposal? there any american proposal that is serious that would have you pay for the wall? >> look, we've made it very clear since before the election, president pena nieto has been transparent about the fact there is no circumstance in which mexico would pay for a wall.

therefore, he says not being part of the conversation, i've been part of every significant negotiation since the trump administration started and we never discuss that because it's an issue that we all know, i think they very well know what's mexico's position about it. it is not a position that's going to change. i don't think -- you would not find any mexican willing to accept the notion of that. so that is -- that is not an issue and certainly not an issue that defines the negotiations. >> another joint problem it seems to me is the fact that mexico is now no longer really -- i think you yourself described it as such, a country that is exporting migrants as it is a transit country, this is to say there are more people trying to get into mexico from central america than they are mexicans trying to get into the u.s. this would seem to be something that -- do you find the trump administration is understand -- sympathetic to this issue and tries to work with you on it? >> i think that there's a much

better understanding of what the actual numbers are for over 15 years, net migration from mexico into the u.s. has been negative. that means every year there are more people coming back into mexico than people from mexico, mexicans trying to get into the united states. however, mexico you're absolutely right, has become a transit country. we are -- every year facing the fact that hundreds of thousands of central americans try to get into mexico, with the purpose of staying in mexico but to get into the united states. this presents as a significant challenge for every country involved, el salvador and mexico and the united states. this is a shared challenge and we should work together in share gs human rights that all migrants have treated well and it's -- we cannot just address a problem by trying to enforce voter control.

that's part of the solution but the real solution is to invest jointly in development of central america. this is something that our current president has been asking for, our future president is strongly proposing. >> i want to ask you about the election of the president, for the last 20 years mexico has been electing governments that have been very pro american in the sense of being pro trade, pro integration and good relations between the united states and mexico and that transformed the relationship which for many decades before that was add seversariadversari. >> when he was running for presidency, polling very low numbers. and then donald trump announces his nomination and starts blasting mexico. do you think that mr. lopez was elected president of mexico because the mexican people wanted to show a kind of an act

of defiance against donald trump's anti-mexican rhetoric? >> i'm not a political analyst and i'll defer that question to the people who really understand political science. but what we know is that mexico had a very successful election and it was a transparent process in which we elected a new president which -- i'm particularly very encouraged by the fact that the transition is happening very smoothly and we're collaborating with the future government, with the future president and to ensure we have a successful transition and that includes relationship with the u.s. we'll remain neighbors and it's much better for the people of mexico to have a good relationship. it's encouraging no matter what it was said in the campaign, both in the u.s. and campaign here in mexico. that's in the past.

what i see is a -- a buildup of a good relationship and nothing can be better for the people of mexico than having a constructive respectful relationship with the u.s. >> mr. foreign minister, pleasure to have you on, sir. >> thank you, it's great to see you. >> next on gps. >> little rocket man -- >> president trump has gone from calling kim jong-un names a few months ago to tweeting very nice things about him. is it possible to imagine such a 180 degree turn on iran as well? the president seems to have opened that door this week. more on that when we come back. jimmy's gotten used to his whole room smelling like sweaty odors.

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counterpart hassan rouhani, never ever threaten the united states again or you will suffer consequences, the likes of which few throughout his tri have ever suffered before. but then this monday, trump took a different tone saying this at the news conference. >> i would certainly meet with iran if they are willing to meet. i don't know if they are ready yet. they are having a hard time right now. it was a ridiculously deal. i have a feeling they'll end up wanting to meet. >> he went on to say there will be no preconditions to a meeting and at the end of the week iran conducted a naval exercise in the all important straits of horm hormuz, an action would antagonize the u.s. and others. what is going on inside iran? joining me now to fill us in thomas hebring, "new york times."" thomas, what do you make of this naval exercise? >> this is of course muscle flexing by the iranians. they have always said if we want

to, we can close off the strait of hormuz, the narrow entrance and exitway into the persian gulf which 20% of energy flows and send a signal to the united states and regional allies, saudi arabia, united arab emirates that iran can actually do this, can close off the strait of hormuz. >> if the iranians were to close off the straits of hormuz, would that not cause huge ripple effects not just for the united states but presumably for a place like china that imports a huge amount of its oil through those straits? >> absolutely. that's why i don't think that iran is really intent on closing off the strait of hormuz because if they would do so, not only would they not be able to export their own oil, they would very possibly also invite military action by the united states or its regional allies and as you

mentioned, china, iran's only remaining customer for oil, plus iran's main trade partner, would be hit very hard by a rise in energy price and shortage of oil. they would actually alienate the chinese if they close off the strait of hormuz. >> what are iranians making of donald trump's offer, somewhat casually stated that he would be willing to meet with rouhani with no conditions? >> well, what the iranian officials would say -- have said is something that is obviously pretty clear, idealogical and haven't wanted to speak publicly to the united states in the past 40 years but i went on the streets and spoke to many ordinary iranians, a building construct constructor, lawyer, hair dresser and all said unanimously, why don't we talk to donald trump and of course, this remark comes from a certain background and background is

iran's declining economy, the iranian national currency lost over 80% of its value, fa reed, in the last hour. take your bank account and just deduct 80%. that's the -- that's what happened to iran's -- to the purchasing power of iranians here in this country because of mismanagement by iran's leaders but also because of the threats of sanctions, sanctions that will be implemented in a first round u.s. sanctions from august 6th. these people are saying why don't we talk to the united states and why do we have an idealogical obstacle to talk to the united states. north koreans are talking to the united states and taliban wants to talk to the united states. why can't iran do that? that was the sent. on the street, fareid? >> the rouhani regime is clearly under pressure. economy is doing badly and iran deal seems to have fallen through, not many successes and meanwhile the u.s. a

administrati administration, mike pompeo is clearly outlining a strategy of regime change. the israeli government is feeding these fires. is it -- does it feel we're in some prerevolutionary moment where this regime could collapse? >> for revolution you would need lots of people on the streets. ironically we are seeing protests in iran in the past six months there have been simmering protests across the country. in january you might remember, over 80 cities people took to the streets, 25 people were killed, almost 4,000 people arrested and in the months falling that period, there have been low level protests if you will, hundreds of people in this city, hundreds of people in that city. and those protests, fareed, have picked up. protests in big cities. there was a smaller protection in tehran. but what is not yet happening at this point is that the bulk of the iranian middle class is joining in this protest.

they feel that the outcome of such protest is still too uncertain to join in. many people say they are fed up with their leaders and many people also say they dislike donald trump but they at this point in time don't yet see how this protest can change their life for the better. >> as always, pleasure to have you on. >> thank you. >> next on "gps", when the hoover dam was built it was perhaps the most ambitious and innovative project of its time. now nearly a century later, modern innovators have new plans for the dam that could rock the world again. find out what is going on when we come back. >> tech: at safelite autoglass, we really pride ourselves on making it easy for you to get your windshield fixed. with safelite, you can see exactly when we'll be there. saving you time for what you love most. >> kids: whoa! >> kids vo: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪

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the energy produce that drove the great west cities into modernity. now a fascinating "new york times" story reveals a new plan for the dam that could be just as revolutionary. engineers with the los angeles department of water and power want to turn it into what the times called a giant battery. in other words, a place not just to generate but to store renewable energy. here's how it would work. they built a pump station as far as 20 miles downstream from the dam powered by the solar and wind farms that pepper the american west. that pump would drive water upstream to lake meade to the dam's massive reservoir where it would turn into energy again when needed. this is what's known as pump storage and it is an impressive fete offal chemny, spinning solar and wind into hydroelectric power and solves a very real problem. we're clearly in the midst of a renewable energy revolution.

the first phase was about generation, harnessing the awesome power of the sun and wind. there's been lots of progress on that front as cheap chinese solar panels flooded markets, increased more than 25,000%. wind generation grew by more than 2,500%. that's good news in terms of limiting depend again ens on fossil fuels but now we need storage. solar and wind are so-called intermet ent sources. that means they are here one minute and gone the next. as they scale up, they start causing problems. take california which leads the nation in solar capacity. in the middle of the day when the sun is shining, solar floods the electricity grid but then disappears at night when people need electric power most. sometimes the state simply shuts down solar panels during the day to avoid overloading the grid. so more isn't always better

unless you have storage which is the next phase of the energy revolution. in taming the sun, a fascinating new book that tackles these issues, the author reveals a startling statistic. if the united states turned off all of its sources of electricity immediately, it currently has enough storage capacity to power the country for just 43 minutes. so storage has a long way to go but many smart people have very big ideas for what to do about it. last year elon musk made the worth's largest lithium eye on battery from a sprawling wind farm in australia. resulting in outages in a fraction of second and store up to 129 mega watt hours of wind energy. that is still a drop in the bucket of country's demand but it's a start. here's another wild idea, solar fuels.

scientists are working on technology that would use the sun's rays to split a molecule of water into its component parts and funnel the hydrogen for fuel and fuel is an easier way to store energy than batteries. bill gates is funding some research, noting one ton of gas leern relean contains same amount of energy as batteries, it may sound ambitious but so did building the hoover dam. the democratic party is in the midst of a soul searching debate about its energy. i talked to his economic adviser about her radical ideas to rethink the federal government and how it spends its money. i ts ♪ it's so hard to believe ♪ but it's all coming back me. ♪ baby, baby, baby. all you can eat is back, baby. applebee's.

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-yeah. -sure, i want that discount on car insurance just for owning a home, but i'm not compromising. -you're taking a shower? -water pressure's crucial, scott! it's like they say -- location, location, koi pond. -they don't say that. american unemployment is way down but there's still more than 6 million people in the u.s. who would like a job but don't have one. what to do? my next guest has a plan under her job guarantee plan, everyone who wants to work would be guaranteed a job that pays at least $15 per hour. who would pay for this? the federal government. how exactly without racking up even more debt? well, stephanie kelton, an economic adviser for the bernie sanders presidential campaign says the federal government doesn't have to worry about how to pay for it. i wanted to understand more.

she started by telling me how she came up with a job guarantee plan. >> so when fdr talked about a bill of economic rights, he was talking about really guaranteeing certain things to all americans and number one on the list was the right to employment. and so this is an idea that's become sort of popular lately. you've got a number of people in both of house and senate who have introduced bills or have plans to introduce legislation to try to make fdr and martin luther king's dream a reality. it is what it sounds like it is, right? it basically asks the question, could we create a job for everyone who wants to work in america? >> but isn't that flying in the face of basic capitalism, which is to say, the market determines whether there are needs and companies try to fill those needs and that's the process by which it happens but the idea of actually intervening in the job market, is seen as very market

unfriendly? >> i actually thinks it's extremely market friendly and pro-business. what it does is say, right now what we're doing is leaving millions of people behind. they want work and can't find it anywhere else in the economy. on some level, the real economy and private economy is failing millions of people. what the federal job guarantee idea does is what if we ensure that everybody who wants to work is afforded an opportunity to a job. what we find in our work is that if we in fact were to put people to work, what you do is raise economic prosperity for everyone in the economy. it benefits private business as well. >> how much would this cost? >> it depends where you are in the business cycle, if you implement it now, when most economists would argue we're fairly close to full employment, it would be less costly if you try to do this when you're shedding 800,000 jobs, a month, it's going to be more expensive. the answer to the question is probably that you're going to

end up employing around 15 million people and spending something between 400 and $550 billion annually. >> and the premise underlying all of this is, is it fair to say your basic viewers, the government can't run out of money, that all of the people frankly on the right and left who worry about social security and medicare and student loans and say oh, my god, this is trillions of dollars, what you seem to be saying, it doesn't really matter? you're base he canally saying the government can just print more if it runs out. >> i don't use that terminology, but that's essentially what it is. look, the united states government, federal government in the united states of america is the source of the u.s. dollar. they are the issuer of the currency. and they have given unto themselves the exclusive right to create the currency. you and i can't do it. if we get caught it's called counterfeiting and there's big trouble. they have the exclusive right to create the dollar. that gives them extreme power. they have the power of the

purse. it means they can never face bills they can't pay. the financial constraint isn't the relevant constraint. the relevant constraint is inflation. it's do we have the real resources in the u.s. economy, the people and raw materials and machines and factories to do as much as we'd like to do. >> but isn't the problem if you print all of this money, you produce inflation because the expectations of everybody changes. this is what happened in germany in the 1920s which led to hyper inflation, this is what's happened in various latin america countries. aren't you condemning the united states through a banana republic future? >> no, printing money doesn't cause inflation. spending money can potentially be inflation nar. that's why i keep saying the limits are real and governments can't just spends willy nilly, don't have cart blanche. >> don't you think you're already up to these limits when you have debt to gdp as high now after world war ii, in three and

four generations, people say we're already at those limits? >> those aren't the relevant limits and aren't inflation. if we had 21 trillion in debt and paying intd and interest income was being received and it's spent into the economy and creating an inflation problem, then i would say we have a limit, we hit the limit. that's not the case. >> do you think the democrats are ready to be as bold and radical as you're describing? >> i think they are reaching really high. i don't know if they are ready to be as bold as i'm suggesting we could be but i think what we're starting to see from a lot of democrats are some pretty ambitious policy proposals and i think they are reaching high. >> cane said behind every politician was an academic scribbler and we hear the voices in the democratic party so we'll know who was scribbling behind the scenes. >> thanks for coming on. >> pleasure. >> the godfather, the graduate,

shindler's list, why the first few minutes of a film can be so important. fascinating stuff from the woman who opened my eyes to the wonders of mow vvies. back in a moment. could their journey inspire yours? order your kit at ancestrydna.com.

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when i speak at college campuses, i'm often asked a question for me is easy to answer, the question is, what was your favorite college course? you might expect the answer to be some wonky esoteric course on history or economics. it was not. the course i took at yale was classics of the history of american sin that ma, something like that taught by annette insdorve, once a week in the classroom i was able to escape the pressures of a student aegs life and enter other words as imagined in the greatest films of all time. it's my great pleasure to be reunited with my professor today and annette is the author of

cinematic overtours how to read opening scenes. welcome. >> i'm delighted to be here. >> so, why is it that you want to write a book about the opening scenes of movies. why are opening scenes so important? >> first impressions count. whether it's meeting someone for first time or sitting down in that theater and watching the opening images, that's going to determine whether you want to stay with the person or the movie. and in terms of film, i have found that most of the great movies tell you, they give you in first few scenes the keys by which to unlock the rest of the movie. >> so you give an example of shindler's list. describe the opening scene. it struck me as such a powerful illustration of what you're saying. >> it could have begun in any number of ways but spielberg chose the lighting of a sabbath candle and you hear the hebrew

prayer that promotes ritual and survival. but the smoke from the candle becomes the smoke of a train in a landscape which immediately takes you into a rather immediate world of world war ii where jews are being transported to get toes and camps. that's the second of two layer of the opening. in the seconds one you see lists being typed at the krakow train station, the importance of typing names. and then you see a man but only through his hands in a room and the mystery who is this person? we assume it's the title character, shindler, but all we see are details as we hear gloomy radio and even when he goes to a nightclub, spielberg refuses to call shindler's face. why? i thought about that a lot after watching the film twice and i decided, he's introducing so

many important elements of film such as the mystery of oscar shindl elimina shindler, why did he risk his life ultimately to save 1100 jews during the holocaust. we'll never really know. >> there's an opening scene where -- don't talk about as much about it in the book, "the god father", many think of as the greatest film of all time. that opening scene is extraordinary and the line it begins with, this immigrant says i believe in america. >> i believe in america. >> i love also the gradual reveal. this is what when i first saw "the godfather", even though i was quite young at the time, i knew i was in the hands of a master storyteller, not just the line being spoken directly and close up to the camera but the gradual reveal. the camera slows pulls back to slow you we're in a darkened room and don corleone, a slight

wrist tells me he's in the frame. then we cut to him and i understand how the power of this man is indirect, it's quiet. it's extensive. i didn't know there were other men in the room at the beginning of the shot. then i realize, a-ha, this is his domain. >> you talk about how you can have a very intelligent filmmaker convey his intelligence immediately. mike nichols in "the gararaduat" >> the first line of dialogue as we see benjamin sitting in an airplane is we're beginning our descent in los angeles. nichols once said he was proud the entire theme of the film was incapsulated in that. and the camera did something very interesting, a zoom shot in films very different from a tracking shot where the camera actually moves, a zoom flattens space. so we move from benjamin's face

in a way that is appropriate because it expresses his emotional situation returning to his parents' home. that kind of flattening. when he gets to the airport, it expresses his lack of control. he's on this conveyor belt, much like suitcases. and there's even a line when you see the suitcase. do they match? so filmmakers are not content to merely tell a good story. they find the exactly appropriate cinematic language, like a poet does with words, to convey layers of meaning and to render coherent the totality of the movie experience. >> in a way, your message to people who go to the movies is if you're seeing a movie by an important director, they're being very thoughtful about how they construct these movies, particularly the opening scene. so pay attention, right? >> that's exactly my message.

you said it as succinctly as i could. it's to be alert, to have an active engagement with a movie. some people still go to movies just to absorb, like a sponge, and have popcorn images hit you. i'm interested in another kind of cinema, and i'm going to use that term. it's part of the history of art, and it's part of how still so many of us learn about the world. >> pleasure to have you on. >> thank you. next on "gps," finding christ and finding votes. how the power of the evangelical vote in the u.s. is swiftly being replicated south of the border. that's story when we come back. -we're in a small room. what?!

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earlier this summer there were reports of a government task force to revoke the citizenship of naturalized americans who are accused of cheating on citizenship applications. the u.s. isn't alone in trying to strip citizens of their passports. which nation is poised to strip the citizenship of approximately 4 million people? egypt, india, brazil, or belarus? stay tuned and i'll tell you the answer. my book of the week is "fact fullness: ten reasons why you are wrong about the world and things are better than you think." it's a fact-filled book with great charts that will teach you more than thousands of pages of prose. the lead author was a "gps"

favorite. now for the last look. that was no ordinary baptism. first the location was the jordan river. the same waters that christians receiving baptized christ. then there's the man receiving the sacrament, a hard ride brazilian fire brand who's been called the donald trump of brazil. last week he officially announced his candidacy for his country's presidency. he's already the front runner. according to the atlantic, that's in part things to evangelical christians, a new force in latin american politics, but one whose power is growing every day. from mexico's recently elected leftist president andreas manuel lopez obrador, to colombia's conservative hard liner, latin american populists from across the political spectrum are getting elected by courting the support of evangelicals.

and with conversions on the rise, their clout could continue to grow. so what is the secret to gaining their trust? well, some in latin america have quickly learned how to win them over with anti-abortion and anti-gay rhetoric. let's hope in their urge to throw the bums out, latin america's e van jevangelicals d anoint too many false prophets. being tough on gays is easy, cowardly, and wrong. if they want something to get tough about, how about corruption, crime, and mismanagement. the answer to my "gps" challenge question this week is "b," some 4 million people in india's northeastern state have had their citizenship put in peril because they could not prove they or their direct ancestors had arrived in the country prior to 1971. in that year, bangladesh fought a war for independence from pakistan. that war forced some 10 million mostly muslim refugees into neighboring india, where 80% of the population is hindu. prime minister modi and his bjp

party have a tense relationship with india's muslims, but the government said monday it had no immediate plans to deport anybody. nonetheless, human rights watch has warned that those left off the list risk becoming stateless persons. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. hello, everyone. thank you so much for joining me. i'm fredricka whitfield in washington, d.c. it's the meeting that just won't go away. more than two years later, the story is still evolving on the infamous 2016 trump tower meeting. president trump now taking a firm stance on the true purpose of the meeting, tweeting today, this was a meeting to get information on an opponent, totally legal and done all the time in politics and it went nowhere. that message very far from the initial statement