♪ i'm michael smerconish in philadelphia. we welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. should the media stop broadcasting president trump at every rally and responding to his every tweet because it is just feeding the beast? no, keep it coming. says thomas freedman, he thinks exposing trump's personality will discourage moderate republicans. but how did that work in 2016? laura ingraham under fire for saying america's going downhill because of immigrants. were her comments racist? or part of a larger white culture war? ohio's special election in what's normally a deep red congressional district still too close to call. many are trying to blame this

man, green party joe manchik. i will ask another famously accused green party spoiler jill stein what she thinks. does the media help or hurt president trump by covering his rallies? this debate persisted ever since we elected donald trump. this week came an interest crop-offer, however, from an unlikely source, "new york times" columnist thomas freidman, and this set off a new fire storm. keep up the blanket coverage of trump, it hurts him. freedman says "it appears to be the toxic lying and bullying and unpresidential behavior that trump exhibits most in his rally and tweets which we so incessantly cover, that's turning off those trump will

need. bring on the coverage. the reaction like places of fox news was -- isn't this what everyone said leading up to the 2016 election? >> what a great idea, remember what happened the last time the media covered every tweet and rally and every word of donald trump and every wink and nudge cough became part of the media's snark-nado? they elected donald trump, the bozos. is it a no win situation or if you are the president, no lose? i want to know what you think. smerconish.com, answer this question at this hour. does covering every one of president trump's speeches, rallies, tweets and utterances, hurt or help the gop and trump's reelection? tom wrote "thank you for being late." tom, great to have you back.

i would be remiss if i did not say it in the outset. here you are of another summer of extreme weather. >> well, we can talk about that in a second, let's talk about this whole question of coverage of trump. i don't know who was the moron from fox news who made that point of how did that work in 2016. that's the question that i would ask is how is it working in 2018? what happened in 2016, donald trump was running against hillary clinton. we know there were a lot of moderate democrats, suburban women, and just enough that in a choice between trump and hillary ready to say, really don't like hillary and i think i will take a chance on trump. what has been happening over the last two years? trump has been locked at 43% approval and around 50, 53 disapproval. i think wonderful key reasons for that, and we saw in the alabama election and the pennsylvania election and we saw it in the recent

election in ohio is that group of independents, moderate republicans and others were ready to take a chance on trump verses hillary are no longer ready to do so because they got the proof of the last two years of his incredibly divisive and toxic behave. and so what do we see in ohio? we saw an election in a district that a democrat has not won in over three decades, a district that trump won by 11 percentage points, the republican is barely leading over the democrat. it's too close to call, by less than one percentage point. there is only way one way to explain, and pollsters will tell you, that moderate republicans and suburban women and independent voters are turned off by everything they see and hear trump doing. they see him tweeting, calling lebron james a dummy after lebron james just built a school

for 400 above rich children in his home state? they see that and it reminded them what a despicable president this is. i think that's his biggest vulnerability going into the next election. let me play devil's advocate. the latest gallup number i think is 89% approval. so where is the evidence of these moderate republicans who are leaving? is it instead the explanation for both the ohio 12 or the pennsylvania special election that there is great enthusiasm among democrats but not that republicans are turning their back on the president? >> i don't think so. >> i don't think you can explain that big of a gap in the ohio election. a district that has not sent a democrat to congress in over three decades, almost sending one now?

let alone the alabama election. i am sure there is greater democratic enthusiasm. but, by the way, let's say he only has 89%. let's see 80% among republicans, he narrowly won those states. i don't expect republicans to abandon trump. but if enough moderates just stay home, trump is not a winner in those states. >> you made an observation that from the get-go he made no effort to reach out and expand his base. i think that observation is undeniable. but it occurs to me he has boxed himself in. i want to put up on the screen this reprehensible tweet about my colleague, don lemon, and mis something, you also made reference to. here is what it occurs to me, tom, we read it and we find it objectionable. >> lebron james was interviewed by the dumbest man on television and he made lebron looks smart which is not easy to do. i read that and i am appalled by it.

but it occurs to me that the people who fill those arenas for him, they love it and he knows their sweet spots. >> you are exactly right. the very things that keep his 40% are the things preventing him from going from 40 to 50. he has a problem. he is the first president in our lifetime, once he got to office he made zero effort to pivot to the center. i think that worked when you have hillary clinton as your opponent. there were just a lot of republicans you who found her so toxic and they were not going to work for her. and they didn't know that much about trump, and thought he'll moderate when they come in. he has not done that. i think that's going to be a real vulnerability going forward. >> when i travel and people recognize me because of my association of cnn, i will hear the comments and criticism from trump detractors --

you guys elected him because you guys gave him all that attention. thomas freidman is saying from the times, saying give him all the attention. >> let's say you don't have a -- let's say you have a decent democratic candidate to oppose him. you don't have the punching bag of hillary clinton. i think the contrast between trump and that candidate could be very large if he continues to go around and calling people like don lemon and lebron james dummies or his daily kind of divisive and really unstable behavior. >> take my final minute and answer the lay-up that i gave you. this is another summer of extreme weather. >> i think, michael, that the sleeper issue for 2020 presidential election could in fact be that we have an election that's not about left or right but about hot/cold.

if you look at what's going on now or the west that's burning of the center of the country is baking, the east is flooding. you've got fires in sweden above the arctic circle and crazy drought in australia. maybe by 2020, the big question on the ballot is not who lost north korea but who lost planet earth? in that election, a democratic candidate or opponent to trump, who focuses on reenergizing america could have a lot of resonance against a president who is telling people that climate change is a hope when death valley just set it's all-sometime temperature record of 120 degrees. waft that issue. mother nature could be on the ballot in 2020. >> it is a good prediction. tom, thank you so much. come back. >> always a pleasure, michael. thank you. what are your thoughts? tweet me at smerconish or go to my facebook page. what do we have, catherine?

the more the media covers him, the more his base loves him. they keep on calling y'all fake news. that's the point i was making to thomas freidman. trump loves the attention. i have often said this about the president. the only thing worse in his mind than negative attention is no attention. he gives good ear. he knows how to push the buttons of his base. he's at it today in bedminster tweeting already. >> it does not help the gop at all. they have to answer the inevitable question of the most recent absurd statement. you take away covering rallies you take away all of his oxygen. that's the conundrum. does it help or hurt him? my attitude is when it's relevant and important, you cover it and try not to get sucked in by the ball of yarn he

throws in on a daily basis, hoping the kittens will all change it. i want to know what you think. go to my website @smerconish.com. answer this question -- does covering every tweet of trump's speeches and rallies help the gop and trump's reelection? >> up next, laura ingraham. she delivered a monolog and blamed immigrants both legal and illegal. was she expressing nostalgia, fear or racism? ♪ ♪ ♪ raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens ♪ ♪ bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens ♪ ♪ brown paper packages tied up with strings ♪ ♪ these are a few of my favorite things ♪ ♪ ♪

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laura ingraham set the internet on fire this week of saying america has radically changed by immigrants. she was responding to remarks by alexandria ocasio cortez

regarding the changing demographics. >> in some part of the country it seems like the america that we know and love does not exist anymore. massive demographic changes have been forced on the american people. there are changes that none of us ever voted for and most of us don't like. from virginia to california, we see stark examples of how radically in some way the country has changed. much of this is related to both illegal and some cases legal immigration that of course progressives love. many on twitter called ingram's comments racist. >> ingram felt compelled to explain herself last night. >> the purpose of last night's angle was to point out the rule of law meaning security of border is something that used to bind us

together. i made explicitly clear that my commentary had nothing to do with race and ethnicity but a shared goal of keeping america safe and her citizens safe and prosperous. >> was she being racist or offering a cultural comment shared by a wide swath of american voters? maybe both? joining me now is david french, all thor of "the recent peace," david, how did you interpret her remarks? >> i didn't interpret her remarks as racist, i interpret them as opportunist. and here's what i mean. i think there is a culture that's been cultivated in parts of the right where the goal is not necessarily to inform so much as it is to inflame, and the goal is to never back away from a fight and never be seen as politically correct. that's an instinct that could get you in trouble particularly

when you find yourself using language that if not bordering on racist, it was language that racists love, and they expressed their love for it. and that's on her. i think there is an argument and a sensible argument to be had in this country of how many people should come into this country under what circumstances and whether immigration should be, for example, family based or merit based. those are serious arguments to have. the problem is when you say you are fundamentally changing america and you are using the word demographics, what that is doing is sending a message to people who pay attention to these things that there is some sort of racial mix or ethic mix that's fundamentally american and there is a racial mix and ethnic mix that is not. the problem with her climb down is it kind of insults the intelligence of the viewers. it was obvious from context, she was not just talking about the

rule of law here. when you use the word like demographics, you are not implying anything of the rule of law. you are implying something of the mix of the country, that was the real problem with the remarks. >> i heard her expressing frustration at change in this country and wanting maintenance of the status quo, and as i watched it for the first time, i thought she was flat-out wrong, because the change in demographics of this country have more to do with birthrates than they do with immigration. would you agree with that? >> they got a lot to do with birthrates and some to do with immigration and the changing demographics of this country. this country has had changing demographics throughout history but what we have had is a broad consensus around certain patriotic ideas. america is more of an idea based country or should be more of an ideas-based country rather than

an ethnicity-based country or demographically based country. you know look the unfortunate thing is we do need to have a series conversation about immigration. it is not the case that there is only one sensible and only one non-race position immigration debate and that only non-race position is more immigration. that's not the case at all. we do need to have a debate around things like should people come into this country have a certain set of skills or language skills. we need to have those kinds of conversations and what happens here is now we are yet in another firestorm over whether the real issue of immigration restriction is whether or not they are xenophobic or racist. >> that topic she is was seeking to address drove a significant part is of the president's electorate in 2016. do you agree with that? >> i think it particularly drove a significant part of the primary electorate in 2016.

i think it was a significant reason why donald trump was the gop nominee and a significant reason why he's the president of the united states and running against hillary clinton. absent the immigration issue, it's fair to say he might not be the president today, but i think primarily it was because of the primary campaign. >> so in closing tell me about this great, white culture war, it pits who against whom? >> this is in response to the controversy you saw of sarah young out of "the new york times," there is this talk of can you be racist against white people? it was -- my colleague said what she was imitating was a lot of language from white people. there are white people who celebrate the end of the power of the white male. or there are white people celebrating the end of the power of the white voter in this country. the point i was making is that a lot of those same people making

those arguments occupying the elite level of the ivy league, the academy and the media. they're not talking about celebrating or losing their power. what they are talking about is celebrating the loss of power of white americans that they don't like. they'll still remain on top. what they are really talking about is this battle between the cultural battle between more elite progressive americans who live on the coast who are disproportionately white, and more working-class americans and religious americans who live in the heartland and who are disproportionally white. when you look at this and you realize the person that's making this argument in harvard or in silicon valley isn't arguing for the loss of their own status. they'll be fine. their kids will be fine. they're arguing of a political defeat of people they don't like and it is becoming -- race plays into this in many, many ways,

but what i was saying is it's a little hard to take when a white progressive elite from the coast says the day of the white person is over but they're not talking about their day. >> it's a provocative piece. i have pinned it on my website. thank you for coming back. i appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. what do we have -- ingram needs to be stifled. she is hoping for an all white america. i like diversity of my country. >> i think she was speaking all about demographics, but those so unsettled about the changing face of america, like laura ingraham, clearly i think are misdirected in looking at immigration because there is much more going on causing the changes apparently have her so unsettled. >> still to come, rudy giuliani

admits that negotiations with robert mueller seems to be delayed. but with mueller avoid making james comey's mistake and ignore the political calendar? and the green party candidate in ohio says he's from another planet and many accusing him of siphoning off crucial votes. where have we heard that argument before? the chili pepper sweat-out. not cool. freezing away fat cells with coolsculpting? now that's cool! coolsculpting safely freezes and removes fat cells with little or no downtime. and no surgery. results and patient experience may vary. some common side effects include temporary numbness, discomfort,and swelling. ask your doctor if coolsculpting is right for you and visit coolsculpting.com today for your chance to win a free treatment. i get it all the time. "have you lost weight?" of course i have- ever since i started renting from national. because national lets me lose the wait at the counter...

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then attorney general eric holder laid it out in a 2012 memo, and the president's lawyer rudy giuliani have been hammering hard on the idea that mueller has to wrap up his findings by labor day. >> you do not want to run into the november elections. so back up from that, this should be over with by september 1st. >> yet he's clearly behaving political. here's what he told cnn this week. when i first got involved, i would have told you not testifying would be the right legal strategy but then hurt politically. now i am thinking the continuance of the investigation would actually help because people are getting tired of it. the president needs something to energize 'tis voters, because the democrats look like they're energized nothing would energize reps more than, let's save the

president. so but what if you are robert mueller? >> remember, thinking about ramifications is what got james comey in instrumental. in the summer before the 2016 election, cohen held the conference to criticize hillary clinton and handling her e-mails but he did not bring charges. and then brought up the weiner e-mails? why did he do that? presumably he thought that she's going to win. he didn't want to look like he if thinking about the ramifications instead of just doing his job is what got comey in trouble, what were mueller do publicly in the weeks ahead? joining mess is scott frederick son in the d.c. office of foley and wadner. counselor, let's put the memo from eric holder.

he says in part, politics must play no role of federal investigators or prosecutors regarding investigations or criminal charges, law enforcement officers and prosecutors may never select the timing or criminal charges for the purpose of affecting the election. it sounds to me that you should not do something affirmative but should you avoid something you would normally do in the conduct of your business? >> well, i think you are reading the holder memorandum correctly. it does guide prosecutors, including here mueller, not to take any action with the direct intention or impact on the political process. but that doesn't mean he stops work on his investigation. it means he has to be careful in any action he takes that it does not have a direct impact on the election. he'll continue with this investigation.

i think mr. giuliani is dreaming if he thinks the report will be done and provided before september 1st. on the other hand, i don't think you'll see the report coming from mueller during the period after labor day, as you get closer to election. mueller has a trial coming up in september of mr. manafort here in washington, d.c. he's subpoenaed individuals to the grand jury and he's actively involved in the investigation. none of that has to stop and he won't stop doing any of that. i think with respect to the report and if he envisions any charges that come close to mr. trump or close associates or family, that's the kind of thing that he'll avoid as we are closer to the november elections. >> what if he concludes that rudy giuliani is stonywalling him right now, and that the negotiation continues for a few more weeks, all of a sudden it's october.

can robert mueller drop a subpoena on the president in october or will he be precluded by doing so by virtue of this protocol. >> the protocol is not something that would preclude him. there are situations where he can subpoena someone. s i think subpoenaing the president close to elections is an action that he'll be reluctant to take and only if he's forced to do so. now, look, i don't think there's any question that rudy giuliani is stonecalling and trying to play this out to avoid an interview of the of the. there is no way he wants the president to be interviewed and so you hear things like perjury trap and such like that. that's obviously not what mueller is going to engage in. that's a form of prosecutorial misconduct. and on top of that mueller if any prosecutors were to bring a case that was based on a perjury

trap, it would be thrown out of a federal court by a judge in a heartbeat. that's not what special counsel do. >> mr. fredericksen, donald trump's name was not on the ballot. why isn't the lesson from james comey's -- i'll say it was a debacle for him to stand up and hammer hillary without bringing charges. that's something a prosecutor does when bringing charges. why isn't the lesson from comey, just do your job, put on blinders and ignore the election timeline? >> i think that's what every prosecutor would like to do but here you have a situation where it is the president who is at the heart of this investigation. and mueller will do his job, mueller will put his blinders on and do everything except when it comes to something that could directly impact the elections. the comey press conferences that he held there, that's exhibit a

of what you don't do, and mueller is not going to take any action for which he could be accused of throwing the election to the democrats or the republicans. i think when it comes to something close to trump, when it comes to the report, i don't think we'll see that running up close to the elections. >> my final comment, i worry that this investigation is going to continue through the election and i am not talking about 2018. i am talking about 2020. i really appreciate your counsel, thank you for being here. >> of course. i want to remind you to answer the survey question at smerconish.com. >> does covering every one of the president's speeches and rallies, does that hurt or help the gop and trump's reelection? up next, why are so many angry at this man? he says his ancestors came from another planet. many accuse him of siphoning off

crucial votes. are they right? i will ask a candidate who is has some still angry at her 2016 presidential bid. dr. jill stein is here. adjusts on each side to keep you both comfortable. and snoring? how smart is that? smarter sleep. to help you lose your dad bod, train for that marathon, and wake up with the patience of a saint. and now, save up to $500 on select sleep number 360 smart beds. plus, no interest until january 2021. ends wednesday.

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did long-shot candidates upsend elections. it's usually deep red. the difference between the front-runner and the democrat randy o' conner is 1,074. the groan party candidate had 1129. the eccentric candidate has he once wrote he ascends from a planet and he he speaks 19 languages including spanglish and she'd music. he was attacked on twitter, even though there's no proof his voters would have otherwise voted for o'connor. then there's the kansas gubernatorial it contest. several other candidates are

also amassed votes, including tyler rusich having a thousand vote. we had rukich here, including ryan ferguson. is it fair to blame long shot candidates and those who voted for them in close elections or those who did not vote at all? that question was just answered with regard to the 2016 presidential election by the folks at the pugh research center. new data makes it clear, nonvoters handed trump the presidency. 30% americans who were eligible to vote decided not to. a higher percentage who voted for either trump or clinton. demographic groups who -- were to be a bigger part of the voter pool than non voters. among groups who preferred

clinton, they were likely to be a bigger part of the nonvoting community. joining me now jill stein, dr. stein, did you and gary johnson elect donald trump? >> absolutely not. and in fact if you assume that my vote belong to hillary then you have to assume that gary johnson's vote belong to trump. if you put those two together, it delivers more support to trump than gary johnson delivers more to trump than my vote allegedly hurt clinton. the point i am making here is that voters deserve to actually vote for who they want and who they support. we know from another study and most people who voted for trump were not actually for him.

they were voting against hillary clinton is their main motivator. the point is not whether we blame independent voters or blaming people who stay home. the blame belongs to two-party system which is essential out of step with the majority of voters. we know in fact that 60% of voters are clambering for a new independent party that'll not throw them under the bus. that will provide health care and education and that'll deliver a climate that we can live in for the future. the win-win here is not rocket science. there is a small simple voting reform that changes the way our votes are counted. it was call rank choice voting. it was passed by the state of maine and used in the primary and they had a bigger turnout than ever. it makes the point that people don't show up to vote or don't vote for the establishment candidate because they are not speaking to their needs.

we deserve a voting system that lets us vote for who we want and instead of against who we most hate. >> i agree with you. i would love to see rank choice voting across the country. i don't like the status quo. i don't want just two choices. i don't think that voters and dr. stein, i fight this battle every week on my sirius/xm radio program, because many disagree with me. i do not want voters doing a cal inclusion of, i like this candidate, but can he or she win? because a stronger showing by jill stein or gary johnson or whoever it may be sets the table for the next election. we need to break out of this spiral, where we only have two choices but we'll never get there if people are always doing that type of calculus. >> exactly.

and what the recent pew study showed, the one that you mentioned that was reviewed in "the washington post," it shows that the people who are staying at home which you pointed out is the largest plurality of voters. the pew study says it's 40%, not 30%. 40% of eligible voters are not voting. those are the voters primarily hurt by the system that's millennials. young people who are inheriting this world that's going up in flames that can't provide food and a stable climate and in an economy that we can live with. it is people of color being hurt most economically, and it is people within average income of $30,000 which is barely poverty. if the people who are being most

impacted by this failing two-party system, don't have a choice that will bring them out to vote, we are never going to fix it and democracy is in real trouble. those who think they are benefiting democracy by vilifies independence voters or candidates, they have it exactly backwards. it is authoritarianism that suppresses, but it's voter choice that should be available to us, can be available, and if rank choice voting got more coverage, it would be implemented in the blink of an eye because voters like it and it brings people out to vote. it's a win-win for everyone and assures that whoever gets elected actually has majority support. >> i have only 30 seconds left. i want to say this. i know how this data will be regarded by the parties. republicans will continue to object to any effort that increases ballot access because they'll look at the data and they'll say hey, if we bring

more people out to vote, we'll jeopardize our own standing. you get the quick final word. >> that's right, and, you know, for the same reason, democrats have also refused to advance rank choice voting. that's why it is up to us. democracy at the end of the day is we who needs healthcare and jobs and living wages and getting out of students debt. there are real solutions here that make sense, that save money, and that are good for the people of our planet. it's up to us to reassert our democracy, and that can start with a simple rank choice voting in your state. it can be implemented by voter's referendum. we can open up our system and start taking it back. >> yeah, i am for that. and i'm for voting by mail. >> thank you dr. stein, thank you for being here. >> good to talk, mike. >> still to come, what do we have? third party is hardly the

problem, it may be the solution. yes, rick, and rick, bemoan for your neighbors who did not vote, not to those who voted third party. one more if we have time. don't have another one for now. all right. we'll give you the results in a moment of the survey question. this is a beauty. does covering every one of president trump's speeches, rally, tweets and utterances help or hurt the gop and the president's reelection? in just a moment. (harmonica interrupts) how they could save 15% or more by... (harmonica interrupts) ...by just calling or going online to geico.com. (harmonica interrupts) (sighs and chuckles) sorry, are you gonna... (harmonica interrupts) everytime. geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance.

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all right. let's do it. time to see how you responded to the survey question at

smerconish.com. i love this one and i don't know how it is going to turn out. does covering every one of president trump's speeches, rallies, tweets and utterances hurt or help the gop and trump's reelection? survey -- whoa! whoa, daddy. 8,289 and we have a -- we have a deadlock. a 50-50 deadlock. you know, i'm not surprised. i think it can so easily be argued either way. i'm going to leave it up for the rest of the day so you can continue to vote at smerconish.com. let's see what came in during the course of the program in reaction to what we had going on. since trump thrives on attention, if media quits paying attention to him, he will wither on the vine. skip, i said myself that he wants the attention. what is worse than bad attention is no attention, so maybe you have a point. what else do we have? 50/50 deadlock. if republicans were prepared to vote for trump the first time

even after seeing his disgusting attacks on women, disabled gold star families, mccain, they will not be put off by anything he does right now. anniep, his standing according to gallup, approval rating among republicans is at 89%. 89% are digging it. one more if i have time. what to we have? i'm told we had many, many come in on this subject. wow! really? i mean, yeah, i guess, the glasses, the beard, the hairline, the white shirt, the blue sport coat. and the red tie. yeah, i see it. all we need, catherine, is the same headline. gang, thank you for watching. here's some of -- you can catch up on -- any time at cnngo and on demand. i'm off next week. i will see you in two weeks. ♪ call. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis,

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♪ good evening, i'm van jones. welcome to "the van jones show." tonight's installment makes me so happy. for once i am not the only jones on the air. we got the comedy genius, "saturday night live" superstar leslie jones with us tonight. i'm so excited. oh, so amazing. it is hard to keep up with the joneses. hard to keep up with the joneses. also, i get back in my van -- yes, we call this segment "van in a van." that's what we do. i'm