said, look, this is against the law. you can't spend campaign funds on yourself or your family, and he himself if according to the indictment it's true, said that's silly, end quote. >> a reminder don't missed full circle on facebook, it's a lot of fun. you pick some of the stories we cover. 6:25 p.m. eastern. the news continues. want to hold it down to chris down in d.c. "cuomo primetime" starts now. welcome to prime time, we are in the nation's capital in washington, d.c. tonight. the president's former lawyer says the president directed him to commit crimes. the president said you cannot believe michael cohen. well, can we trust one of his closest friends who says the same thing as cohen.

today we learn a tob bloid mogul gets the same immunity and accuses president trump of knowing and being involved in everything. remember that may to be why the president actually said that allowing the government noo pressure people into working with them to make a case, maybe that should be illegal. yes, he said that to fox and yes he got a pass. but not here. tonight we're going to test what he said and one of trump's top advocates white house counselor kellyanne, conway is here, and we'll get after it. also, in all the legal news you may have missed what could be the most concerning tweet 06 the week from the president of the united states. did he really support a white nalsest conspiracy theory? every day there's a new challenge, so what do you say? let's get after it. all right, i got one eye on you, and one on my twitter feed because i expect the president

to add another long time friend to the list of people. this time it's david pecker, the head of the company that publishes the national enquirer and he was granted immunity into a formal investigation on michael cohen and in exchange he was granted immunity. according to him pecker also provided investigators with details about the payments cohen made for the women. so let's get the white house reaction to this and a lot more. counselor to the president, kellyanne conway, good to have you back. you literally were just whisked in here as the show started.

let me ask you this, ininterviewi interviewed interviewed the president's former lawyer last night, and do you agree with that assessment, there's no criminal exposure, perhaps in your opinion but that he lied about this? >> the president has said that he has not lied and the president has said no charges were filed against him in either the manafort or cohen matters, as you know. and that's important here. the other thing that's really important to note especially for the cnn viewers, christopher, is despite a year and a half of searching high and low where exactly is this fictitious russian collusion, which the

collusion means two people are getting together and maybe do something illicit. it's not kaen conspiracy which is getting together to commit a crime. ia spent so screening graphic and time to talk to experts about impeachment and collusion. cnn is not waiting for mueller's investigation because you've been talking about collusion and promising it to your viewers for nearly a year and a half. >> we talk about the dossier all the time. >> last night michael cohen's attorney lanny davis made very clear to your calling and many other appearances yesterday there are at least 13, 14, 15 falsehoods about michael cohen in the dossier including the fact they say he's never been to prague in his life.

>> you're defending michael coman? >> no, what i'm saying you can't have it both ways. you can't say for a year and a half this is about russian collusion and i was part of the successful campaign of this man who won fairly and squarely as you well know. >> i disagree with your assessment. >> tell me -- >> because it's patently untrue. we don't promise the audience an outcome. you have to respect the democratic process. i think he won the electoral college, and that means he's president of the united states. >> thank you very much. he's your president, too. you need to show respect to the president. we can't even get our agenda covered on cnn -- >> that's not true. we cover it all the time. the truth matters. that's what we sell to our odd krns because that's the only reason we have a job. the truth is you lied about this. you knee about what michael cohen was doing with these women

and the payments. he lied about not knowing. says me, says the facts. because i heard the tape in his voice, it's donald trump and he is listening to his lawyer tell him what he needs to do to finish his deal with his friend pecker. everybody's heard it. if you want to i'll play it again. >> no, cnn plays it on a loop. >> so you know it already. and what it shows is he was aware of what he was doing before he did it. >> no. >> that's the truth. he's lying. >> when he was asked on air force one, did you know about that -- that was the question about stormy daniels payment and he said no. and not at the time. the whole world knew about it by january. this morning he said he knew about it after the facts. >> i know. but that's not true.

>> i don't want your viewers to -- and i know your viewers expect to be fed anti-trump -- every single night. >> you could say, look, did he lie, he lied. it's not perfect but it's not illegal. his own lawyer admits that. >> is he his current lawyer -- jay goldberg -- >> i would argue when he called to ask how to handle michael cohen just months ago. >> you know who his lawyers are now, right, rudy giuliani, and jay sekulow. >> i don't think that just because you're not returned currently you're not a good gauge of your client. >> let me tell you something, the president spoke on this just this morning for the world to see. let's focus on the two big stories of the week according to cnn and msnbc -- manafort, and

cohen, let's focus on those. where in the manafort trial is russia collusion with trump. >> the president lied about what he knew about these women. he should not lie to the american people in their face time and time against. "the washington post," it's the first lie they ever flagged -- >> why is it not important for you to replay and talk about it in the president's own words? >> because he's lying. >> but you don't want people to see him answering his own question. >> we play his voice all the time. play the tape. remind everybody what he said to michael cohen. >> no, not that tape. you know what tape -- >> i have spoken to allen weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding -- yes, and it's all the stuff. >> did you know about the

$130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> no, no. >> did you know about the payment? >> later on i knew. later on. >> yeah, he knew later on. he knew before. he's lying. is that michael cohen and president trump talking about the deal? >> yowl know what tape i want to hear -- tell us what's on the tape of chris cohn and michael cohen. >> there's a little difference between you and the shop you work with -- it's as plain on the nose on my face. you should admit he's lying, and you don't and that's why people don't trust you. and you want me to answer your question, i will. michael cohen had a conversation with him -- excuse me. he asked me not to record it, i said i won't. he said just to be careful let me have your phone, i did.

he then recorded me on a secondary device. >> how do you feel about that? >> i think it was dishonest. you know what we talked about in the conversation? i'm not going to tell you, eyou know why? because it was off-the-record and i'm going to respect that. i'm still not going to burn him even though he did something wrong. there's nothing on it that i'm worried about. i know why you guys want to leak it but -- hold on a second, this isn't about a me. you tried, you failed am he's on that tape, on there with michael cohen and he's on there lying about these payments and you should admit it. >> no, i don't. >> i'll tell you why because you say to people the truth isn't the truth. he says don't believe what you see and hear -- >> no, no, he's saying -- >> and it's all destroying people's sense of normalcy and diseasan

decency and integrity. >> you've asked me ten times the question -- >> he's lying. >> no, that's what you think. >> that's what "the washington post" says, david pecker says -- you're disappointing me right now. doesn't mean i think you're not my friend just because you're disappointing me. >> here's a very, very simple answer to you. when you say to me that this is why the audience doesn't trust you, you know why the audience doesn't trust the white house because all day long on your network all they hear is how terrible we all are, that we lack integrity, that we lie. what is it that you think i lie about? >> i'm asking you to admit that he is lying about what happened on these payments? i don't think it is helpful to you to play games about

something. i'll give you that free advice. >> true or false, do you think it's a lie that i.c.e. and cvp were honored for all the great work they're doing, that the mayor of philadelphia danced the jig or whatever the heck he was doing after -- philadelphia let him go and he raped a 5-year-old child, none of this is fact, none of this mat snrz. >> who said it's not true? you keep ducking it. he lied. >> why are his words not important to you? >> because he's lying. they are important to me. i'm asking about them because they are material misrepresentation of fact for the purposes of deception. it's a lie. >> what crimes were commit snd what charges were filed against donald trump this week? >> the bar of proper behavior by

a president is a felony. it's a crime of leadership, it's a crime of integrity. stop lying to them. and he is lying. >> and you know what a lie is that on july 27th you guys came out with this big report, nobody is retracting it yet, three big bylines. >> let me get you on the record the other way, do you think the president is telling the truth that he never knew about the payments until after -- >> he said he knew about them after the fact. i never knew about them. >> i don't know when you knew about them. >> you should care about them. you should absolutely care that the campaign manager for the campaign thinks that there's nothing to be gained with meeting with russians and talking to people in moskow instead of people in north carolina and michigan -- you

should be reminded that every single night cnn was featuring another woman with another story. you play the "access hollywood" tape constantly thinking it would hurt the candidate, he would never be elected. cnn interfered in the election dale a daily by shifting the scales -- >> are we a phony anonymical power? >> i get $50 every time you say the word, it used to be collusion -- >> by the way, both words matter. we don't know if there's proof of one. there's an investigation going on that our president disrupts every chance he gets, and lying matters. >> you've covered it more than the low unemployment rate, more than the consumer -- you were a world class journalist who used to go to plane crash sites --

>> iiest in helsinki -- >> would you take that back -- >> it was embarrassing what happened in helsinki, and i'm glad you didn't have to experience it the way we did. i'm not ignoring anything. i'm speaking to what is true. >> booming economy, consumer confidence -- >> these are indices. >> the president was asked the same question you were asking me and he answered it. >> but he's lying. >> only he knows what he believes, only he knows what he knows. >> but that's not true. because it's not a matter of perspective. it's not eyewitness testimony. he's not the only one who knows if he's telling the truth or not. michael cohen knows, david pecker knows.

mr. wisingbering maybe knows. >> do you think he should be impeach s impeached? >> it's not my call to make. do you think we should tell the truth to the american people -- do you think he should tell the truth to the american people? >> yes, i think you should, too. >> do you think he should be impeached for being shown to lie to the american people consistently -- is he going there before or after he goes to south africa to help out those white farmers that the president mistakenly told people they're being humtnted down and killed d having their land stolen. >> i'm not perched, telling everyone and pontificating to them. i go out and talk to people. >> and they say we don't care if the president lies to us about criminal conduct? >> no, what they care about is

the president is doing everything he promised to do. >> did he promise to drain the swamp? >> we were told that everything, the economy, would never be the same, it would be a huge disaster and it went in the opposite direction. >> is it okay to lie about criminal conduct? >> is this all you're going to talk about in this show? >> i want you to own the truth. that's what i want you to do. >> -- that he has denied. and i work next to him every single day. i see someone who's doing his best for this country and the results show it and you know it. what is the message of this opposition? >> i don't know it because the division -- you're using one simple metric of success in leadership. >> if you're one of 6 million americans that received a bonus or a range -- >> who did better, 83 cents of every dollar went to people like us. you want to play facts, i study

them all the time. please, i treat you as somebody as somebody who comes in here to represent the president. man, woman, or other you're going to get the same treatment. no one can shut you down. >> you're not even letting me speak. >> 83 cents of every dollar went to the top, okay? the black unemployment rate went down with the main unemployment rate, but relative to white it is still just as bad. okay? that's the right measure. >> why doesn't it matter it's the lowest in history? >> it does matter. >> why doesn't it matter there are 6.6 million able jobs right now. the president is working on the back of the opioid crisis. >> he's not working on the opioid crisis. it's terrible, it's spreading. i can't let you say things that aren't true. go to fox. >> okay, i'm so glad you mentioned fox because none of

you are able to get through most of your shows without talking about them. >> i almost never mention fox news. i'm jealous of the opportunities they get to test power. they just don't take them. that's what i'm jealous of. >> that's where you got the answers. >> listen, i'm not in the business of attacking people with the answers. let me tell you -- if you're going to argue you've got to be straight about it. if you want to talk about african-americans and the economy, be straight about it. the gap between rich and poor, black and white is as strong as it has been been. >> do you think it went up or down, the number of people in poverty? oh, i know up. what is the unemployment rate among african-americans and hispanics, veterans, women, way down. >> it was good when it was happening under obama, too. now it's good it's happening under trump. i just did a whole comparative

analysis. >> how many americans don't have health care after obamacare? >> and let's see what's happening with people's insurance now all over the country. >> there's this whole government approach and the house legislation hr-6, i know it'll never get a platform on cnn because -- >> who brought you on tv to talk about opioids? >> what is it about -- >> i did on this show. >> you don't have to play cheap with me. just own what's real. >> in '16 to '17 it increased by 10%. >> slowing the growth is not shutting it down. i think what you're trying it to do is good. i think the president saying what he said the other day, you have to look what china is doing

and importing all these opioids into the this country -- i had you on to talk about it. what you're say is disingenuous and another attempt to make people dislike the media. it all matters. >> yeazero died because of collusion. >> that's not the bar -- so if the economy is good, you can lie whenever you want, you can divide the country anyway you want, you can play the racist sympathy whenever you want but it's okay because the stock market is up? is that your argument? i think the president lied about something that refers to criminal conduct. >> he's telling you right now why -- >> old on. i didn't call you a liar. i'm saying the president lied about something. you refuse to acknowledge it.

that makes you complicit in the lying. >> oh, cut it out. >> sure it does. if you won't own something you know is a lie -- >> where is the charge against the president? >> you don't need charges to be a liar, and you know it. >> chris, where's the charge against the president? >> by law there probably can't be any, so that's a false standard. he was just namedads a coconspirator with michael cohen. >> he wasn't named. >> he's in the plea agreement. who was the person running for federal office? was it someone else? >> has the president been able to respond to that? >> 100 million times. >> and he did on tape yesterday and today. >> and he's lying. do you understand? >> that's your opinion. >> "the washington post" covered it all. michael cohen says it, david pecker says it, the government says it. >> okay, all of you were against him and said he could never win, never -- >> that doesn't make it okay to

lie. >> do you think anything you've discussed in the manafort or cohen trials -- excuse me or cohen discussed tonight would have made a difference with hillary clinton? >> i don't care about that. that is silly distraction, very trumpy. >> no, no, excuse me to quote influence an election -- >> how do i care about any of that? he's the president of the yoourns united states, he lied about criminal conduct. >> you're talking about 2016 -- >> no, i'm not talking about 2016. >> you are. >> i'm talking about him lying about the these payments again and again to the american people. and he shouldn't do it. and if he wants to pardon manafort, that's his power. rudy says that if the president says he didn't want any pardons until this is all over, that's up to him. that's his pardoning power. if he wants to pardon manafort

that's his right, that's his role. do you think he should pardon paul manafort? >> i think if you invite a white house guest and is with the president, talks to him every day, was in three meetings with him just today you ought to have basic curiosity if not decent integrity to ask me what it is we do there, what we're working on. you're not covering the meeting they had together -- >> you don't think it matters he keeps disrespecting his attorney general, undermining confidence in him by the american people in his own department? >> the president is very clear on this through his tweets, his statement on fox news, highly rated fox news, christopher. he said to them he's upset, frustrated, rightly so. many of us are frustrated that we never had an investigation on the other side. >> some people investigate on the basis of merits. >> so you think it's not merited? >> so you've got your own

attorney general who loves donald trump even though he just defecates all over the guy on a regular basis. well, he does. i've never seen anyone treat someone the way he treats his attorney general. he should leave if he's going to attack him all the time. >> no american is impacted by your nonsense collusion, your fana fantasy in 2016 -- they were together after that. aren't you the least bit interested -- >> i think it speaks to jeff sessions having a hell of a lot sense of duty to the american people. >> i would at least expect you as someone who love his country and i know you do to say, you know what, kelly, here are five things donald trump has done as president. can you name them? >> because that's not my job. that's not my job. >> your job is to say the president of the united

states -- >> to make sure the integrity of their leadership and their about to look to the american people and tell the truth is intact. >> the corporate tax rate -- >> does the truth mat, yes or no? >> the truth always matters. >> good. is he telling it truth about these papyments. >> you decide selectively -- >> is he telling the truth about these payments in. >> there's wall to wall coverage about a missing woman woman in iowa until she was found, and god rest her soul and you don't even have the decency -- >> you're not letting her soul rest. you're waving a flag. how dare you and how dare the president and you do that. just like kate stein lelee. if you don't want to abuse them

like the president does then you don't care about -- >> you don't care about the ones who have been murdered. >> over 17,000 murders in this country in 2016. how many times has he stood up and said this is an atrusty when it happens. only when the people who killed them is someone he wants to target. >> that's not true. what happened to the democrats, cnn covered 5 minutes of a cabinet meeting in late january where he was flanked by the democrats and republicans from the house and senate to talk about daca, the dreamers. where did they go -- >> they brought out a deal, schumer told me, and he denied it. there's the truth. here we go. >> why don't you respect i.c.e. and custody -- >> the real racism problem -- >> yes or no. >> it's not my job to make policy decisions. it is my job to test them. i'll tell you what i think is

wrong. saying you care about mollie tibbetts and calling her permanently separated from her family, is that how you describe someone that -- >> i said god rest her soul. >> he said she was permanently separated from her family. is that the time to play ugly politics because he's upset and about putting kids in cages -- is he upset about what happened? we did two segments on it yesterday. >> do you think the grief of laura and -- >> i think you should do whatever you can to stop illegal immigration but you don't have to treat the immigrants like crap to do that. you don't have to reduce yourself -- >> he said he would do a deal on the dreamers. >> then he didn't. >> where are the democrats? >> they brought him a deal and he didn't. he was never going to do

anything about it. he put it on congress. >> you start s this year off shutting down the government right after they -- >> i have no party. what i have is a purpose, and the purpose is to try to test power and get them to tell the truth to the american people. that's the purpose. let's see what he does. >> -- and are eligible and we're trying to help them reenter into society. >> let's see what he does. i think that's great. you know what's also great, not calling them sons of bitches. >> who? >> people of color. >> oh, stop it, christopher. you don't care that he's trying to help people. >> how was he helping people by saying that. >> was that about the national anthem and about standing for the flag -- >> and he said get the hell out the country.

>> -- you disrespected people -- >> because it's my damn choice and i'm an american and i'll exercise my freedom anyway i want to and that's what they're doing, too. it is your right not to. last time i checked there are few things as much of a signature right in america as i understood it than to protest injustice in a nonviolence -- >> he has said he likes to bring peace wherever he can. that's why he went to helsinki, to singapore, he tore up the awful iran nuclear deal, which just shovered over piles of cash and turned over too much to them. that's why just this week benjamin netanyahu said this is the best friend israel's ever had. this is why a very democratic councilmember i believe or a state assembly member from queens said thank you to the

president for -- say, kellyanne i disagree with the president -- >> i'm agree with the president for holding him to account for what he says and does. >> hold him up when yes, i was deports a nazi who's responsible for many, many deaths. >> when you refuse to -- >> why did the president say i'm going to move the embassy to jerusalem and i'm going to create jobs -- >> i'm going to tell you this now and i make it to you as a promise. as you know no one workers harder than we do to do this job? on my shop, in this place, on this team, on cnn. all i wanted to tell you is you need to own the truth.

you said in a condescending fashion and i never said anything to you about it. listen, i'm out of time. >> you gave yourself a lot of time because you talked pretty much the entire time. >> i don't think that's true. i'll give you a word count at the end. >> the guest should have many words. >> no, i think it's to the test power. >> i am power, but you don't even ask what we work on. >> i'm asking about things that matter not just what you want to talk about. he's lying to the american people about criminal conduct. he should have disclosed loans he didn't, should have told the truth about what happened, shouldn't have been part of a conspiracy to get around election laws. those are things he should own. >> do you respect the things i do on behalf of the country? >> yes. >> do you think i need to be in the white house? i'm one small molecule in the

government that's trying to do well. do you respect the president? do you sigh what we're trying to do -- >> i respect what i see and hear. >> when the veterans have the accountability act, whistle bloel blower act -- >> and you have his country club buddies in the va who haven't been vetted -- >> the secretary confirmed by the senate something like 86-9. >> and he had these guys from mar-a-lago who are helping on the side that should have never been done that way. >> and you're not telling he gave veterans benefits at -- >> i've got to go. >> next time let the guest speak. >> i will always give you an opportunity to come on about what matters. >> the whole truth also includes the good economic news. >> no, that's not how the truth works. the economy is true -- it's what you try to make people believe it is. the truth is how is the economy

doing, did he lie about these payments, separate but equal. thank you for coming on this show. stay don't leave yet. we've got to wait for the commercial. all right, wave got to take a quick break. when we come back we'll debate what everything that happened this week means. everyone on both sides as always. i'm going to start with some balayage clip-ins, then razor cut up to a blunt angled lob. i'm retiring; you're my swan song. what?! he's gonna slap some clips in your hair, give you a bob and then he's gonna move to boca raton. but you're gonna look amazing. ok. there are multiples on the table: one is cash, three are fha, one is va. so what can you do? she's saying a whole lotta people want to buy this house. but you got this! rocket mortgage by quicken loans makes the complex simple. understand the details and get approved in as few as eight minutes

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it mean? let's put it to a great debate. we've got two great people there you tonight, jason miller and paul begala. i think this is your first night on the show. >> it is. >> let's disstill something that is actually useful from the back and forth about truth. the president now demonstrably we know was not telling the american people about the truth about these payments and what he knew and when he knew it. i'm not saying that makes him or a criminal or exposes him to legal jeopardy. i'm saying it mat wrrzer the truth. i know he can't be charged. i know what the doj guidance is, but telling the truth matters also, doesn't it? >> i do think the white house needs a better answer on the president's side of the story. i think as this process moves along that's what they're going to have to get to. i would caution you on one point, chris, that so far we've only heard one side of the story, michael cohen. >> the president has told us

what he thinks many times. >> but we're talking specific to these two so-called allegations that are against the president that michael cohen has made. they're coming from michael cohen who's now a self-admitted eight time felon. >> and david peck squr ter and . government. >> someone who didn't pay his taxes for five years and against the president. >> you used to say he was a man of high integrity, you trusted him, liked him. that didn't just change because he's on the other side now, didn't it in. >> i've always said there's issues with michael cohen. >> you've not always said that. >> there are issues with michael cohen. the white house is going to need to tighten up their answer on his. >> tighten up their answer, give a better answer. when our kids are lying to us, we don't say tighten up the answer. we say tell it truth.

paul? >> he can't. first of all he's incapable. he's a pathological liar. but in this case he's a liar of necessity because the truth is not his friend. oelgs proven by his own words on tape as proven by kellyanne when she asked a question. and also he does have real legal jeopardy. in the cohen plea he accuses the president of the united states of cooperating to subvert the campaign financial laws. as you know as a lawyer that's a five-year statute of lamentations. which means the act occurred in october 2016. he can be charged with that after he's president should he be defeated in 2020. >> so let's flip it for a second. so he has real legal jeopardy. let's flip it for a second. i read the charging document, not impressed by these campaign finance violation charges. he does plead guilty, but they never proved it. and they're cutting it very fine with what they say he did.

and i don't think we know that this was some grave campaign finance conspiracy going on. i think they were lying about it. i think they were being sneaky about it, but i don't know that there's criminal exposure for the president especially with all the doj guidance about when you can move on a president. they'd have to impeach him first. i don't know if this is high crime or misdemeanor. of course it's up to the -- i think it's important for people to see the exercise because the truth is the truth, jason. it's not about a better answer. it's not about working on tightening it up. >> hold on. but you have one person's allegation. >> and what david pecker and what the government was able to deduce. >> again, we don't know exactly what david pecker was saying. we know what michael cohen was saying. >> we knew from the president

offense voice on the tapes -- >> we have someone of michael cohen who has very little credibility. >> the tape has 100% credibility. >> it was cut off. we don't know all the details surrounding it. here's the deal. you cannot go and say now that michael cohen has absolute complete credibility -- >> no, i'm not saying that at all. >> so we're only hearing from michael cohen going up there and making these allegations. >> and david pecker and the changing stories from the president. >> we don't know exactly what david pecker said. all we know right now -- >> let's say david pecker were to come onto this show tomorrow night and say you know what, i'm better than this. trump knew before, during, after, he didn't want to embarrass his wife and his family, he was worried about it on the campaign on the heels of the "access hollywood" tape, so i did it and i caved and by the way i'm not happy about that. what would you say about that? >> chris, all we have is someone

with very little credibility making these accusations. we don't know what they're saying. >> where is this going to go? >> i think you make a good point. the president has a defense. this is not obstruction of justice, it's obstruction of life. he lies about the affair. i think he's lying. but he could have a plausible defense in saying i want my wife to know that i had failed her -- that's just the beginning. >> because i would have taken care of it anyway, it's not a crime, i lied, i should have lied i'm sorry, let's move on. >> mr. cohen, my former colleague in the clinton white house is hinting that cohen can place trump in knowledge of the hack of the democratic party. and acknowledge about the trump tower -- >> he's going to have to do one of two things. he's going to allow them to show what he knows, which he's going

to have to proof or corroborate things for them in a way that they have two, three, four layers of truth up against what cohen is saying. >> it's not just the payment to stormy daniels, which i think is problematic. reasonable people could argue that. it's the trump tower meeting, which there was collusion with the russians, which he may or may not have known about, a call to a blocked number, hinted at by michael cohen's attorney, the question of the trump foundation, which the state of new york is going after him on and now subpoenaed mr. cohen about. the walls are closing in on multiple fronts. this is why kellyanne conway is gift gifted. she was freaking out because the white house is in crisis. >> you are a masterful storyteller. none of this has nothing to do with michael cohen. michael cohen does not have a cooperation agreement.

we know what michael cohen has gone and pled to. the fact of the matter is the reason why lanny davis is on tv begging for the mueller folks to pay attention to him because they don't want anything to do with him. he's a toxic witness, doesn't have a cooperation agreement -- >> he could have one under seal. >> we've got to leave it there. >> the fact of the matter that has nothing to do -- >> we've got to leave it there. we know the process is going to play out. it seems like congress will act to frustrate anything -- here's my hope for common ground. if two guys as different as you can both decide to where ugly pink ties -- that's why i wear black as often as possible. thank you for the decent disagreement. appreciate it. all right, the president picks a fight with his attorney general. you heard me talking about that with kellyanne. he watches two members of his

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joining us now. sorry for giving you my back here. good to see you. listen, you saw a little demonstration there why i can't do your job. i'd get kicked out in about two minutes and never be invited back. but in terms of your sense, of the state of play between the free press and the presidency, are we? >> well, we're having white house press briefings now about once a week, and i think that's been pretty telling as the crisis is down we had kellyanne conway out there, and i think that's number one. number two, and i pressed on this yesterday in the white house press briefing they are not ruling it out explicitly and even rudy giuliani, the president's attorney is just saying don't do it right now while the special counsel's investigation is going on. i also think that's really telling. >> the basic

>> so i think a lot of this has to do with the president creating a lot of these problems for himself. key point, jeff sessions, kellyanne conway was saying more people should have covered the prison reform meeting that the president had with jared kushner, jeff sessions, and others at the white house. but it it's the president's comment that he's going after jeff sessions, that he's easy on democrats and that he only picked him because he was a loyal supporter during the campaign, that's why we're raising questions whether or not the president is going to fire jeff sessions, because he's making it pretty clear he wants to fire jeff sessions. that's why no one is talking about the prison reform meeting, which we would love to talk about because that's actually a pretty big issue, and the department of justice and jeff sessions really disagree with jared kushner and others in the white house. >> we follow power. that's not a criticism. if he talked about it more, we would too. >> they're in a bunker

mentality. we have a weekly "daily" press briefing. you saw with kellyanne conway what we face daily in the white house. she says we don't want to cover anything. then make yourself available to answer questions about those things. you set up the problems, as you say, caitlin, we have to deal with the answers, then you come after us. instead of answering questions, kellyanne tried to flip it and make you answer her questions. we're not there for that. she says we don't hold him up, we put him down. we're not there for that. we're there to figure out what's going on. it's impossible to do that when you're dealing with an administration, chris, that on any given day, won't return a phone call, will not return an e-mail, will not show up in the press room and then get angry when you show up to ask them what they're doing. >> do you think from this point going forward things get better or worse in terms of the dynamic

in this country between the press and power? >> i think that's up to the white house. and i did want to make a point, as you were saying, by the way, caitlin, on prison reform, that's not a meeting that was open to us today. that's not go we could have attended. we're just covering what he's tweeting about because that's what he's talking about. >> right. better or worse. >> i actually think it's a small group of people that have a strong dislike for the media. i think a lot of this country realizes that the media is important. i'm from alabama. when i go home, i think a lot of people are thank for for what we do. i think a lot of people are grateful for what the media does, and that we're not there to criticize the president or make him look bad. we're there to say what the taxpayer funded people in the white house are doing so people know how it's affecting their lives. >> appearance or reality? if you want to deal with

reality, i'll take you to tuesday night, charleston, west virginia, at a rally. every time he says cnn, msnbc, nbc, he screams "fake news" and everybody cheers. then individually they come over and want to talk to you and ask you questions. where do i think it's going better or worse? this will sound awful weird, chris, but president trump has made our job, as highlighted our jobs, has reinvigorated the press corps. i think we were asleep for many years but i think we're getting better at doing our job. it starting to remind me of the press room when i first went there in '85 and ''86 and watchd helen thomas bang on the door and say, you have to come out and talk to us. now you have younger reporters and some of us older farts. >> you're doing a job that matters very much and i'm reaping the benefits of it

because i get to make sense of it at night. coming up, all of the fog of legalities, and it came from the president, next. - i remember a time when great service was a given. - thank you. now i'm at a time in my life where i want to do business with companies who do right by me. - [narrator] the hartford is the only auto insurance company voted one of the world's most ethical companies 10 times, and customers rate the hartford 4.8 out of five stars for their claims experience. join the millions of customers who trust the hartford. call

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last night the president tweeted this. i've asked secretary of state mike pompeo to closely study the south africa land seizures and large scale killing the farmers. the south african government is seizing land if white farmers. like all conspiracy tripe, there's a kernel of truth. the south african government is trying to compensate for the discrimination against blacks. the scary part from fox, that there's rampant killing of farmers, the crime rate in south africa is much higher than here. make no mistake, the killing is bad, the problematics, i think

trump is sending another ugly message. the proof, white nationalists are cheering. david duke gave big thanks to trump. richard spencer said, getting his base to seriously discuss white dispoti white dispotdispossessions. don't refer to african and central american nations as "s" hole countries. don't call american black athletes sons of bitches and un-american for being uninherently american. they're our sons and brothers and countrymen. don't rip away immigrant kids and put them in cages. and please know, i don't call of this out to attack you or to bring you down.

the truth is, mr. president, this is much bigger than you. this is about us, about america, he pleasure i b e pluribus unum. don lemon starts right now. >> i'm not done with you are you christopher. i mean chris. >> yes, pal. >> i cannot get that 20 minutes of my life back. >> i hope that it was edifying for you and you saw how difficult it is to get even the most obvious falsehoods and proof of lying to be owned and accepted by this white house. >> they know, and the president does as well, and kellyanne, that you're not attacking the president. they know that deep down. but they can never admit it. doesn't play well for the base. you asked kellyanne conway, she said why do you think i'm doing this, and you sai