>> yeah. they had no interaction in court at all today. >> randi, thanks very much. we'll definitely follow that. a reminder don't miss full circle our daily interactive newscast on facebook. it's a lot of fun. you pick some of the stories we cover. 6:25 p.m. eastern on facebook.com/anderson cooper full circle. all one word. the news continues. want to hand it over to chris down in d.c. "cuomo prime time" starts now. chris? >> thank you, anderson. i am chris cuomo. and welcome to "prime time." we are in the nation's capital, washington, d.c., tonight. the president's former lawyer says trump directed him to commit crimes. the president says you cannot believe michael cohen. he well, does he think we can trust one of his closest friends, who says the same thing as cohen? today we learned a tabloid mogul gets immunity regarding those big payments to women and reportedly accuses president trump of knowing and being involved in everything. remember, that may be why the president actually said that maybe allowing the government to

pressure people into working with them to make a case, maybe that should be illegal. yes, he said that to fox and yes he got a pass. but not here. tonight we're going to test what he said and one of trump's top advocates, white house counselor kellyanne conway is here, and we'll get after it. also, in all the legal news you may have missed what could be the most concerning tweet of the week from the president of the united states. did he really support a white nationalist conspiracy theory? every day there is a new challenge, so what do you say? let's get after it. all right, i got one eye on you and one on my twitter feed because i expect the president to add another long-time friend to the list of people we can no longer believe in his estimation. this time it will be david pecker. who's he? he's the head of the company that publishes the "national enquirer." and according to the "wall street journal," he was granted

immunity in the federal investigation into trump's former attorney michael cohen in exchange for providing information on hush money deals. now, according to sources pecker told federal prosecutors what seems obvious to most of us. trump knew all along of cohen's payments to women who had alleged sexual encounters with him. pecker also provided investigators with details about the payments that cohen made for the women. so let's get the white house reaction to this and a lot more. counselor to the president, kellyanne conway, good to have you back. >> welcome to washington. hi. >> you literally just whisked in here as the show started. >> the president sends his greetings. >> send him my best. i hope he's watching. >> and he said he always liked your mother and she liked him. >> well, i've got that going for me. >> don't embarrass her tonight. >> i'll try. she likes you too. so you follow the same advice. let me ask you this. let's start with the onset. i interview the president's former lawyer last night, jay goldberg. and he says i don't see criminal conduct from the president when it comes to collusion with russia, i don't see criminal conduct from the president when

it comes to campaign violations. i say but what about the lying? he says, oh, he is lying about what he did with the women and the public will have to account for, that that they can't trust him to tell the truth. but it's not a crime. do you agree with that assessment? that there's no criminal exposure perhaps in your opinion but that he lied about this. >> the president has said that he has not lied, and the president has said that no charges were filed against him in either the manafort or the cohen matters, as you know. and that's important here. the other thing that's really important to note, especially for the cnn viewers, christopher, is that despite a year and a half of searching high and low where exactly is this fictitious russian collusion which the "new york times" said in july of 2017, doesn't he have legal significance? collusion means two people are getting together maybe to do something illicit. it's not conspiracy which is getting together to commit a crime. where is that? you've spent so much sweat equity, invested in so many screaming graphics and time and experts talking about everything

from impeachment to collusion -- >> because it matters. that's why. >> where is it? >> you've got to ask mueller. he's not done with his investigation. >> let's be fair. you were not waiting for mueller. cnn -- you are not waiting for bob mueller to finish the investigating because you've been talking about collusion and promising it to your viewers. >> never. >> for a year and a half. >> literally not once. i say that almost all the time. >> the dossier. some of your claegds won -- >> we talk about the dossier all the time spp. >> let's talk about it tonight because last night michael cohen's attorney qulan davis made very clear to your colleague in many other appearances yesterday that there are at least 13, 14, 15 falsehoods about michael cohen in the dossier including the fact that they say he's never been to prague in his life. >> you're defending michael cohen? >> what i'm telling you is -- no. what i'm telling you is you can't have it both ways. you can't for a year and a half say this is all about russia collusion, that a campaign that i managed to its victory, i was there for the successful part of the campaign, that this man who ran and won fairly and squarely

as you full well know, you can't promise everybody there's going -- >> i disagree with your assessment. >> that he didn't -- >> i disagree with your assessment. because it's patently untrue. we don't promise the audience an outcome. we tell them you have to respect the process. >> do you think the democratic process worked here? >> i think he won the electoral college. that means he's the president of the united states. >> thank you very much. he's your president too. >> i never said he wasn't my president. >> it's time we show respect to this president. >> listen -- >> we can't even get our agenda covered on cnn. >> that's not true. we cover it all the time. but listen -- hold on a second. the truth matters. that's what we sell to our audience. the truth is he lied about this. you guys should own that -- >> lied about what? i'm sorry. lied about what? >> he knew about what michael cohen was doing with these women and the payments. >> he knew about it after -- >> that's a lie. >> he knew? >> yes. says me. >> why? >> the facts. >> what facts? >> because i heard the tape. and on it his voice is donald trump.

and he's listening to his lawyer tell him what he needs to do to finish his deal with his friend pecker. everybody's heard it. if you want it i'll play it again. >> no, cnn plays it on a -- >> well-g. then you've heard it. so really i'm just refreshing your recollection. so you know it already. what it shows is he was aware of what he was doing before he did it. >> no. >> that's the truth. he's lying. >> when he was asked on air force one, did you know about that -- that was a question about the stormy daniels payment. >> mm-hmm. >> and he said no. >> and he did. >> meaning -- not at the time. that was in april. the whole world knew about it by january. >> he knew about it also. >> no. he's saying he didn't know about it at the time. >> i know. and that's not true. >> he said he knew about it after the fact. >> i know. but that's not true. >> i don't want your viewers to -- and i know your viewers expect to be fed anti-trump virulence every single night and they come away quite satisfied. you should just own it. >> you want me to own it? you won't own what is so obvious.

and i don't get it -- you could say look, did he lie? yes. he lied. he's not perfect. but it's not illegal. you could say that. his own lawyer admits he lied. >> no, no. that's not -- is he his current lawyer? jay goldberg. no, no. answer for me. when is the last time -- >> i would argue when he called to ask how to handle michael cohen just months ago. >> you know who his lawyers are now, right? >> yes. >> rudy giuliani, jay sekulow. you're going to have to to have that conversation -- >> i don't think that just because you're not retained currently doesn't mean you're not a good gauge of the character of your client. >> let me tell you something. >> yes. >> the president spoke on this just this morning for the whole world to see. he said she asked him did you know about the payments. he said i knew after they were made. >> yeah. >> but let's focus on the two big stories of the week according to cnn and msnbc. manafort and cohen. let's focus on those. where in the manafort trial is russia collusion trump -- >> i don't care. the president lied about what he knew about these women. he should not lie to the american people in their face time and again.

the "washington post" does a blow by blow take through. it's the first lie they've ever flagged in dr thr zblsh i hav-- >> i have a very simple question for you. why is it not important for you to replay and talk about the president's own words? why don't you show him answering that question? >> because he's lying. >> you don't want people to see him answering the question. >> what are you talking about? we play him all the time. i'll play his voice saying to michael thocohen what are we go to do and how are we going to do it and what do you mean about financing? play the tape. remind everybody what he said to michael cohen. no, no. play the tape. >> no, not that tape. >> play the tape. >> you know what tape we should -- >> i've spoken to allen weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding -- >> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> no. no. >> did you know about the payments? >> later on i knew. later on. >> he knew later on. he knew before. he's lying. >> wait.

>> is that michael cohen and president trump talking about the -- >> you know what tape i want to hear? >> kellyanne. >> excuse me. tell us what's on the tape of chris cuomo and michael cohen. what's on the two-hour tape of the two of you. >> tons of stuff. >> okay. well, tell it. >> i'll tell you why i can't. because there's a little difference between you and me and the shop you're working for. integrity. >> the white house? how dare you? >> how dare me? you admit he's lying about these things. it's as plain as the nose on my face. you should admit he's lying. and you don't. that's why people don't trust you. that's why. >> maybe your audience doesn't. >> and you want me to answer your question? i will. michael cohen had a conversation with me. he asked me -- excuse me. he asked me not to record it. i said i won't. he said just to be careful, let me have your phone. i said here. he heene sa even said we'll take our phones and put it away. he then recorded me on a secondary device. >> how do you feel about that? >> i think it was dishonest. and i'll tell you what, you want to know what we talked about in the conversation? i'm not going to tell you. you know why? because it was off the record and i respect that. even though he did me wrong.

that's called integrity. what do you do when people aren't watching? i'm still not going to burn him even though he did something wrong. he can answer that for himself. i'll tell you what. there's nothing on it that i'm worried about. i know why you guys want to leak it. hold on a second. this isn't about me. you tried. you failed. he is on that tape -- >> no, you tried -- >> he is on there with michael cohen -- >> excuse me. christopher -- >> he's lying about not knowing before -- >> are you going to talk about -- >> and you should admit it. no, you have to admit it. >> no, i don't. are you kidding me? >> i'll tell you why. because you say to people -- >> the president just answered the question -- >> -- the truth isn't the truth. he says don't believe what you see and hear. >> no, no, no. he's saying -- >> and it is all destroying people's sense of normalcy and decency -- >> hold on. you don't ask questions. you just want to -- >> i've asked you six times and you don't want to answer it. >> i've asked you ten times the same question -- >> and you don't answer it truthfully once. >> president already answered the question. >> he's lying. >> that's what you think. >> that's what the "washington post" says. that's what michael cohen says. that's what david pecker says. and i think it's going to end up --

>> he disappointed you? >> you're disappointing me right now. it doesn't mean you're not my friend. it doesn't mean i think you lie all the time just because you're disappointed me. >> you've got about ten times the words i have so far and i'm the the guest. >> because you're not answering a simple question. >> here's a very simple answer to you. when you say to me that this is why the audience doesn't trust you you know@audience trust the white house. because all day long on your network all they hear is how terrible we all are, that we lack integrity, that we lie. >> he lies. >> what is it you think i lie about? tell the world. >> i'm asking you -- >> no, no. answer. >> -- to admit -- >> we're not going to let you -- >> -- that he is lying about what happened on these payments. i don't think it is helpful to you to play games about something that's so petty. >> do you think it's a lie, true or false, do you think it's a lie that i.c.e. and cbp were honored this week on monday by the president of the united states for all the great work they're doing, that the mayor of philadelphia danced the jig or whatever the heck he was doing

after he announced that philadelphia would no longer give data to i.c.e. and turned around and the guy who had been deported came back five years later, i.c.e. asked for a detainer for the man, philadelphia let him go and he raped a 5-year-old child? none of this is fact? none of this is true? >> who says it's not fact? who says it's not true? >> how is that less relevant than you trying to get me to answer the same question 12 times? >> because you keep ducking it. he lied, kellyanne. >> i'm not ducking. he answered the question. >> he lied. >> why are his words not important to you? >> because he's lying. they are important to me. i'm asking you about them because they are a material misrepresentation of fact for the purposes of deception. >> no. >> that's a lie. >> what crime was committed? what charges were filed against donald trump this week? >> the bar of proper behavior by a president is not a felony. okay? >> do you think anything you just said -- excuse me. he didn't commit a felony. >> i'm saying you lie, that matters. that is a crime against the american people. it's a crime of leadership. it's a crime of integrity. >> he said he --

>> stop lying to them. >> after -- >> and he is -- >> he knew about the payments later on. >> and he's lying. >> you know what a lie is? that on july 27th you guys came out with this big report, nobody's retracting it yet. three big by lines -- >> let me get you on the record the other way. do you think the president's telling the truth that he never knew about the payments until after -- >> he's saying he knew them after the fact. i never knew about them. >> i don't care about when you knew about them. >> you should absolutely care about that. >> no. i care about him. >> i'll tell you why. you should absolutely care that the campaign manager for the winning part of the campaign think that there's nothing to be gained in meeting with russians, in talking to people in moscow instead of michigan and mecklenburg county, north carolina. you should very much care that i don't know about payments -- >> i care about -- >> excuse me. and you should be reminded that every single night cnn was featuring another woman with another story. you played the "access hollywood" tape constantly thinking that it would hurt the candidate, he would never be

elected. cnn interfered in the election daily by shifting the scales -- >> are we a foreign inimical power -- >> with your foreign polling -- >> this is -- >> excuse me. that he could never win. >> people saying we didn't cover his lying and bad character enough. that's what i get covered for. >> unless you're getting $50 every time you say the word. it used to be collusion. tonight it's lying. >> they both matter, by the way. both words matter. >> really? >> we don't know if there's proof of one. there's an investigation going on that our president disrupts every chance he gets. and lying -- >> you cover that more than the booming economy, more than the low unemployment rate. more than -- >> and he talks about this more thaen talks about all of those -- >> you are a world-class journalist. you used to go to plane crash sites and cover war. >> i go now. i was in helsinki and saw one of the most embarrassing things i've seen in my life. >> we saw what you wrote about it. >> it was really embarrassing. >> will you take that back? was that a big lie? >> wa t. was embarrassing 37? a story cnn published on july 27th. >> it was embarrassing what happened in helsinki and i'm

glad you didn't have to experience it the way we did. i'm not ignoring anything. i'm speaking to what is true. and i've got to tell youing? -- >> booming economy -- >> this is going the way i thought it might. >> consumer confidence. >> those are all good indices. i talk about what matters on this show all the time. what i don't get is -- >> president was asked the same question that you're asking me and he answered it. >> and he lied. >> no. only he knows what he believes -- only he knows what he knew. >> only he knows what he believes? >> only he knows what he experienced. >> but that's not true. >> because you say so? >> because it's not a matter of perspective. it's not an eyewitness testimony. he's not the only one who knows if he's telling the truth. >> tell me where this is going. >> michael cohen knows. david pecker knows. >> where is the impeachment -- >> mr. weisselberg -- >> do you think he should be impeached? >> it's not my call to make. >> but cnn and msnbc said the word 222 times yesterday for an average of 3.5 -- once every 3.5 minutes -- >> you think we should tell the truth to the american people? do you think he should tell the truth to the american people?

>> yes. and i think you should too. and here's -- >> do you think he should be impeached if he's been shown to be lying to the american people consistently about criminal conduct? >> going back to north korea again because you're trying to -- >> is he going there before or after he goes to south africa to help out those white farmers? >> chris, be serious. >> that he mistakenly told people are being hunted down and killed -- >> do you think that's a smart thing? >> you don't want to talk about that? the south africa tweeted last night. >> i want to talk about what matters to americans because i actually talk to them every day. i'm not perched in some anchor's lair, i mean chair, telling everybody, pontificating about what's important to them. i read the mail that comes to the white house, good bad and ugly. i go out to talk to people. >> and they say we don't care if the president lies to us and criminal conduct? >> what they care about is that the president is doing everything he said he would do. he's keeping his promises. >> did he promise to tell them the truth? >> we were told there was going to be global recession and -- including on this network. we were told that everything, the economy would never be the same, it would be a huge

disaster, and it went in the opposite direction. >> does that mean it's okay for him to lie about criminal conduct? >> is that all you're -- >> i want you to own it. i want you to own it the way his former lawyer did. >> you want me to say something -- >> i want you to own the truth. that's what i want you to do. >> -- that he has denied. i worked next to him every single day. you know what i see? i see somebody who's doing his best for this country and the results show it and you know it. what is the message of his opposition? >> hold on. i don't know it. >> you don't know it? >> i don't. you know why? >> because you and i are wealthy. because our kids -- >> you're cuesing one simple metric of success in leadership. >> if you're one of the 6 million americans who received a bonus or a raise, if you're -- >> quho did better in that tax cut, people like us or people that voted for trump in the middle class? 83 cents of every dollar went to people like us. you want to play facts i can. i study them all the time. please. >> you're not letting a woman talk -- >> somebody comes in here to represent the president -- >> you're not letting me -- >> you get the same treatment from me. >> you're not letting me speak.

>> no. but you are dissembling and distracting. >> you're not letting me speak. >> 83 cents of every dollar went to the top. okay? the black unemployment rate went down with the main unemployment rate but relative to white it is still just as bad. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. why doesn't it -- >> that's the right measure. >> why doesn't it matter to you that -- >> it does matter. >> excuse me. why doesn't it matter to the 6.6 million available jobs right now for americans who wanted it? the president is working on prison reform. he's breaking the back of the opioid crisis. >> he's not breaking the back of the opioid crisis. it's terrible. we both know it is. it's spreading. you guys want to address it and i respect that. i can't let you say things that aren't true. that's whatnot this show's about. that's fox. you go to fox for that. >> okay. i'm so glad you mentioned fox because none of you are able to get through most of your shows without mentioning them. >> what are you talking about? i almost never mention them -- >> to be so jealous of fox news's ratings. >> i'm jealous of the opportunities they get to test power. they just don't take them. that's what i'm jealous about. >> i answered every question you're asking me.

that's where you got the answers. >> i'm not in the business of attacking people in the business. >> you do -- no, you didn't let me talk about the things that matter. >> let me tell you. if you're going to argue about the economy you've got to be straight about it. you want to talk about african-americans in the economy be straight about it. the gap between rich and poor, the gap between black and white is as bad as it's been and it should be addressed. you don't get credit for what you don't do. >> how do you think poverty went in the last eight years, do you think it went up or down? the nuv people in poverty. i know. up. by over 700,000. what is the unemployment rate among african-americans and hispanics, veterans, people with just a high school degree or less? women. way down. why isn't that good? >> it was good. it was good when it was happening under obama too. now it's good it's happening under trump. >> he raised taxes -- >> i just did a whole comparative analysis of it. >> how many americans don't have health care 8 1/2 years after obamacare? oh, i know. >> and what did you do it to try to wreck it? getting rid of the individual mandate. let's see what's happening with people's insurance right now.

>> saying we're not breaking the back of the opioid crisis because -- and the house legislation hr-6, i know will never get a platform otherwise on cnn because it's too important -- >> you come on tv to talk about opioids -- wait a anyone -- >> it passed -- >> wait a minute. who brought you on tv to talk about opioids? >> what is it about articulate women on tv that bother you as guests? hey, christopher -- >> you don't have to play cheap with me. >> 2015 to 16 the number of overdose deaths in this country increased by 22%. from 16 to 17 it increased by 10%. we're trying to slow the growth. >> slowing the growth is not shutting it down. i think what you're trying to do is g. i think the president saying what he said the other day you have to look at what china is doing and how they're importing -- >> they're synthetic opioids. fentanyl. if your audience doesn't know what -- >> of course they know what it is. we talk about this on a regular basis. i had did a documentary about it. i huh on to talk about it -- what you're saying is disingenuous. and it's another attempt to make people dislike the media and

that's un-american. >> impeachment. what do you think is mentioned more on cnn? 29,000 people died last year in this country because 30,000 -- of fentanyl. zero died because of impeachment. zero died because of collusion. >> that's not the bar of presidential behavior. here's what you're saying. if the economy's good, so if the economy's good, then you can lie whenever you want, you can divide the country any way you want. you can play the racist sympathies whenever you want but it's okay because the stock market's up. is that your argument? i think the president lied about something that refers to criminal conduct -- >> thank you for telling everybody i'm not a liar. he's telling everybody right now why did you have her on? and i didn't call you a liar. i said the president lied about something. you refuse to acknowledge it. >> president -- >> that makes you -- >> answer that question. i'm telling you -- >> -- complicit in the lying. >> oh, cut it out. cut the crap. >> sure, it does. if you won't own something you know it a lie -- complicit in the lie. >> what are the charges against the president? >> you don't need to have charges to be a liar. and you know that.

>> christopher, where are the charges against the president? show me. >> there are none. and by law there probably can't be any. so that's a false standard. he was just named as a co-conspirator with michael cohen. >> whhe wasn't named as a co-conspirator. >> who was the federal person running for office? was it somebody else? was it someone else? >> listen to me. has the president been able to respond to that? >> 100 million times. >> okay. and he did on tape yesterday. or today. >> and he's lying. do you understand? >> that's your opinion. >> the "washington post" covered it all. michael cohen says it. david pecker says it. the government says it. >> all of you were against him. you said he could never win -- >> that doesn't make it okay to lie. >> do you think 234ig yanything discussed today or anything in the manafort or cohen, anything we discussed tonight would have made hillary go to wisconsin? >> i don't care about that. that is a silly distraction. very trumpy. >> no, no, no.

excuse me. to quote influencing an election. how exactly? >> what do i care about any of that? he's the president of the united states. >> no, no. you've got to live with it. >> he lied about criminal conduct. that's why i'm talking about it. he had lost i wouldn't care about his personal life. >> you're talking about 2016. >> no, i'm not talking about 2016. >> influencing -- you are. >> i'm talking about him lying about these payments again and again to the american people. >> manafort stuff was 2006. >> and if he wants to pardon manafort that's his power. we hear the talk about it. rudy says if the president says he didn't want any pardons until this is all over. maybe that's true. maybe that isn't. it's up to him. it's his pardon power. >> right. >> so he wants to pardon manafort he can. that's his right. that's his role. >> he's probably discussed it with his lawyers. but that's just -- >> do you think he should pardon paul manafort? >> i think if you invite a white house guest on, the counselor to the president who is with the president every day, talks to him every day, was in three meetings with him just today, you olt to just have basic

curiosity if not decency and integrity to ask me what it is that we do there, what it is we're working on. cnn has had wall-to-wall coverage today about sessions. you're not covering the meeting -- >> you don't think it matters that he keeps disrespecting his attorney general? undermining confidence in him by the american people in his own department? >> no. this is very simple. the president is very clear on this through his tweets, through his statements, through his interview with fox news. highly rated fox news, christopher. he said to them that since you had to go there, he said that he's upset, he's frustrated, rightly so -- >> then get rid of him. >> no, no. many of us are frustrated that we've never had an investigation of the other side. where's the investigation of comey and -- >> you know, some people investigate things on the basis of merit. so you've got your own attorney general in there who loves donald trump even though he just defecates all over the guy on a regular basis. >> whoa. >> well, he does. i've never seen anybody treat somebody the way he's treating his attorney general. and he should just get rid of him. he should give him the dignity of asking him to leave --

>> very lengthy meeting about -- >> attacking him all the time. >> something that will impact all americans. no americans are impacted by your nonsense collusion, your fantasies about impeachment -- >> sew wants jeff sessions to help advance an agenda when he tells everybody he doesn't respect him all the time? >> aren't you the least bit interested -- >> i think it speaks to jeff sessions having a hell of a lot of sense of duty to the american people. >> i would at least expect you as somebody who loves his country, and i know you do, to say you know what, kellyanne, here are the five things donald trump has done as president that i can get behind that i'm proud oftion. can you name them? >> my job -- >> you can't. >> because that's not my job. >> your job is not to love this country and to say -- >> you love the country by making sure that the integrity of its leadership and their ability to look the people of this country in the face and tell the truth is intact. >> raises and bonuses. the corporate tax rate going from 35% to 21% that's unleashed -- >> does the truth matter? yes or no? >> that's the truth.

>> does the truth matter? >> truth always matters. >> good. is he telling the truth about these payments? >> did you ever hear about the whole truth and nothing but the truth? you decide selectively what you're going to cover. >> does he tell the truth about these payments? >> there was wall-to-wall coverage about about a missing woman in iowa until she was found, and god rest her soul. >> god rest her soul? you're not letting her soul rest. you're waving her like a flag -- >> i would never. >> you're hijacking her grief. >> how dare you? >> if you're not with us about immigrants, then you don't care about mollie tibbetts. how dare you and how dare the president do that? just like kate steinle. so if you don't want to abuse immigrants the way the president does, if you don't want to assume they're all murderers the way the president wants people to believe, then you don't care about kate stainlee and mollie tibbetts. >> you don't care about the ones that have been murdered to say this is how it happened. >> oh, but 17,000 murders in this country in 2016. how many times has he stood up and said this is an atrocity

what happened? only when the people who kill them are someone he wants to target. >> that's not true. >> come on. >> that happened to the democrats. cnn covered 55 minutes of a live meeting in the cabinet room in late january where he was flanked by democrats and republicans from the house and the senate to talk about daca, the dreamers. where did they go? why aren't they there? why -- >> they brought him a deal. schumer told him and he denied it. there's the truth. >> why when they talk about immigration do they only think of the dreamers? >> here we go. a nice us-them thing. are we back to the farmers in south africa? the real racism probably. >> do you think it's a good idea to have immigrants -- >> it's not my job to make policy decisions. it is my job to test them. i'll tell you what i think is wrong. saying you that care about mollie tibbetts and calling her permanently separated from her family. is the way you describe someone when they're murdered? >> i said god rest her soul and i didn't say her name. >> he said she was permanently separated from her family.

is that the time to play ugly politics because he's upset about what happened with him putting kids in cages? permanently separated? >> why can't you say what happened? >> we do say. we did two segments on it yesterday. of course there are cracks in the system. of course her murder but for that man being here illegally wouldn't have happened. >> kate's law. do you think the grief of lara -- >> i think that you should do whatever you can to stop illegal immigration but you don't have to treat the immigrants like crap to do that. >> no. >> you don't have to reduce yourself -- >> he said he would -- >> -- to be less human and less american to do it. and then he didn't. they brought him a deal and he said no. he said i want the whole wall. they gave him money for the wall. he said i want more wall. it was a fugaze promise. just like the kids separation. he was never going to do anything about it. >> you know that your party -- >> i have no party. >> -- started this year off shutting down the government. right after they -- >> i have no party. what i have is a purpose. and the purpose is to try to

test power and get them to tell the truth to the american people. >> don't you care at all that the president is working on prison reform -- >> let's see what he does. >> -- so that people who paid their debt to society reare eligible -- >> let's see what he does. i think that's great. >> the money that we've gotten, historic -- >> you know what's also great? not calling them sons of bitches. that's also great. >> who? >> people of color. >> oh, stop it, christopher. >> who was he talking about? who was he talking about? >> you don't care that he's trying to help people? >> how is he helping people by saying that? >> is that about the national anthem? is that about him saying you stand for the flag -- >> yeah. and then called them that and said get the hell out of the country. is that how you support black americans? >> do you do this when they play the national anthem or don't you? >> i do. >> why? >> because it's my damn choice. because i'm an american and i'll exercise my freedom the way i want to. it doesn't hurt anybody else. and that's what they're doing too. >> everybody in the stands is doing that. i've been there. >> god bless them. and that is their right. and it's your right not to.

>> it's his right as the president -- >> and last time i checked there are few things that are as p of a signature right in america as i understood it than to protest injustice in a non-violent -- >> do you think peace is better than war? >> 100%. but he should stop saying he's going to make war if people don't do what he wants. >> he's said he wants to bring peace where he can. >> did he? >> that's why he went to helsinki. that's yes went to singapore. he tore up the iran nuclear deal which just shoveled over piles of cash and turned over too much to them. that's why just this week benjamin netanyahu said that this is the best friend israel's ever had. this is why a very democratic council member i believe or state assembly member from queens said thank you to the president for deporting this nazi -- cover it. >> good. >> say kellyanne, disagree with the president -- >> it's not about disagreeing with the president or agreeing with the president. it's about holding him tocchet for what he says and what he does. >> hold him up when he does things like his i.c.e. deport a

95-year-old nazi who was responsible -- >> when you refuse to tell the truth to the american people you surrender the right to get applause. >> why do other presidents say they're going to do that but not do that? why did other presidents say i'm going to move the embassy to jerusalem -- >> there's plenty going on in the country and in the world that needs attention but i will tell you this now and i make it to you as a promise. sflrt as y as you know, nobody works harder than we do to do this job. >> who? you? >> in this place, on my team in this shop on cnn. we work very hard to tell people what is true -- nobody outworks us every day. i'm telling you this. all i've wanted to tell you is you need to own the truth -- >> you sound like a -- >> i haven't been called christopher since i was in kindergarten. you say it in a condescending fashion. i never say anything to you about it. we know what it is. that's your style. that's fine. i've got to go now. >> you call us all -- >> i've given you more time than anybody else would. >> except me. you gave yourself a lot of time. you talked pretty much -- >> i don't think that's true.

i'll give you a word count at the end. >> the guest should have many more words. you know that. >> no, i don't. i think the job is to test power and if you don't answer the question you're going to get checked. you're power. >> i am power. but you don't ask what we're working on. >> i'm asking you about things that matter, not just what you want to talk about. he's lying to the american people about criminal conduct. >> okay. you want to talk about the truth? >> he should have disclosed lies that he didn't. he should have told the truth about what happened. he shouldn't have been part of a conspiracy to get around the election laws. those are all things he could own and still not have any criminal exposure. >> do you respect me in the job i'm trying to do on behalf of the country? >> yes. >> do you think i need to be in the white house? >> no. >> why do you think i'm there? >> because i think you think you're doing the right thing. >> and i am. i love this country and i'm one small molecule in the government that's trying to do well. do you respect our cab snet do you respect vice president? do you respect the cabinet? >> i respect what i hear and see. >> the accountability act. v.a. choice that allows them -- >> and when you have his country

club buddies making decisions for the v.a. who haven't been vetted, who haven't been asked whether or not they are qualified to do it -- >> that's not true. >> it is true. >> secretary wilkie yesterday he was confirmed by the senate 86-9. >> and you have these guys from mar-a-lago who are helping on the side that should have never been done that way. >> you're not telling the veterans that he gave them disposition of their g.i. bill benefits -- >> that part matters -- look, i've got to go -- >> it does matter. 24/7 hotline at the va. that's okay. the next time let the guest speak and i won't -- >> i will always give you the opportunity to come on and talk about what matters -- >> the whole truth also includes all the good economic news. >> no, that's not how truth works. >> truth is just what you think it is -- >> no. it's what you try to make people believe it is. the truth is how's the economy doing, did he lie about those payments, separate but equal. thank you for coming on. >> god bless you. christopher's endearing. it's not a scolding. >> mm. stay. don't leave yet. we've got to wait for the commercial. we've got to take a quick break. when we come back, we'll debate what -- everything that happened

this week means. both sides represented as always. today, 97% of employers agree that skills like teamwork, attention to detail, and customer service are critical to business success. like the ones we teach here, every day.

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can help you explore cost support options. remission can start with stelara®. it has been a big week. no question about it. the real question is what does it mean? let's put it to a great debate. we've got two great people for you tonight. jason miller and paul begala. i think this is your first night on the show, no? >> it is. congratulations, by the way. >> welcome to "prime time." jason, good to have you back. look, let's just distill something that is actually useful from the back and forth about truth. the president now demonstrably, we know, was not telling the american people the truth about these payments and what he knew and when he knew it. i'm not saying that makes him a criminal. i'm not saying that exposes him to legal jeopardy. i'm saying it's about the truth. doesn't that matter, jason? absent whether or not there's anything criminal. i know he can't be charged. i know what the doj guidance is. but telling the truth matters also, doesn't it? >> well, i do think that the white house needs a better

answer on the president's side of the story, and i think that as this process moves along i think they're going to have to get to. i would caution you on one point, chris. that so far we've only heard the one side of the story and that's from michael cohen. >> no, the president has told us what he thinks many times. the "washington post" did this whole very, very detailed march -- >> but chris, we're talking specific to these so-called allegations that are against the president that michael cohen has made. they're coming from michael cohen, who's now a self-admitted eight-time felon. >> and david pecker. and the u.s. government. >> someone who didn't pay his taxes for five years. who's now making these allegations against the president. or we assume it's the president. >> i know you haven't gone bad on michael cohen, right? you used to say he was a man of high integrity, you that trust him, that you like him, he was good for the president. that didn't just change because he's on the other side, did it? >> i've always said there are issues with michael cohen. zbluf not always said that. but continue. >> there are some issues with michael cohen. but i want to be very clear that obviously these are some serious charges and the white house are going to need to tighten up

their answer on this. >> tighten up their answer, give a better answer? when our kids are lying to us, do we say give a better answer? we say tell the truth, right? you don't even have legal exposure. you're the president of the united states. they can't charge you if they wanted to. tell the truth. paul. >> he can't. >> why? >> first off, he's incapable of it. he's a pathological liar. but in this case he's a liar of necessity. because the truth is not his friend. the truth is we know he's a liar. it's proven by his own words on tape, as you showed kellyanne when she finally let you ask a question. and also, he does have real legal jeopardy. in the cohen plea he accuses the president of the united states of cooperating to -- campaign finance laws. as a lawyer you know that's a five-year statute of limitations. the act occurred in 2016. he can be charged with that after he's president she be defeated in 2020. >> let's flip this for a second. he has real legal jeopardy. >> that's why he's not telling the truth. >> let's see how many people i

can get angry at me in one night. i read the information what they call the charging document when there are no charges because there was a plea deal. i'm not impressed by these campaign finance violation charges. he pled guilty. i get it. but they never proved it. and they're cutting it very fine with what they say he did and i don't know if this was some grave campaign conspiracy going on. i think they were lying about it, think think they were being sneaky about it but i don't know that there's criminal exposure for the president especially with all the doj guidance about when you can move on a president. they'd have to impeach him first. i don't know that this is a high crime or misdemeanor for the purpose of that. of course it's up to all the politicians. it's just a political situation. i'm trying to make a different value judgment. the reason i'm pushing on kellyanne about this, i knew she wasn't going to answer me but i think it's important for people to see the exercise because the truth is the truth, jason. it's not about a better answer. it's not about working on tightening it up. >> hold on.

but you have one person's allegation. >> and david pecker. and what the government was able to deduce. >> but again, we don't know exactly what david pecker is saying. right now we know what michael cohen is saying. we don't know exactly what david pecker is saying. >> we know from the president's voice on the tape that he knew about the payments before them being made. >> we have someone in michael cohen who has very little credibility. >> the tape has 100% credibility. >> but it was cut off and we don't know all the details that were surrounding it. chris, you cannot -- here's the deal. you cannot go and say now that michael cohen has absolute complete credibility. >> i'm not saying that at all. >> so we're only hearing from michael cohen, going up there and making these allegations against the president -- >> and david pecker. and there are other evidence. >> so what exactly -- >> and the changing stories from the president. >> we don't know exactly what david pecker said. all we know right now is michael cohen -- >> let's say david pecker were to come on this show tomorrow and say you know, what i'm better than all of this, they gave me immunity because i deserved it. trump knew before-e knew during, he knew after. he wanted us to do this, he didn't want to embarrass his

wife and his family. he was worried about it on the campaign on the heels of the "access hollywood" tape, so i did him a favor i thought it was going to get paid back, by the way i'm not happy about it. what would you say then? >> chris, you want to put me in a hypothetical -- >> i think it's very likely it will happen. >> all we have is someone with very little credibility making these allegations and you even said it in the first place that these charges -- we have more than just -- >> we have more than just cohen. >> with you we don't know what they're saying. >> where does this go? >> i think you made good point. the president has a defense which is this is not obstruction of justice, it's obstruction of wife. now, he lies about the affair. he says there was no affair. i think he's lying. but he could have a plausible defense with a lot of people by saying i didn't want my wife to know that i had failed her. that's why i paid -- >> fine with all of it. fine with him saying i lied because it's none of your business, because i would have taken care of it anyway, it's not a crime, i lied, i shouldn't have lied, i'm sorry, let's move on. >> mr. cohen -- >> you get an applause from me for that. >> mr. cohen's lawyer lanny davis, my former colleague in the clinton white house, is

hinting that cohen can place trump in knowledge of the hack of the democratic party and knowledge about -- >> he's going to have to do one of two things. he's going to allow them to show what he knows. right? which he's going to have to have proof. or he's going to have to corroborate things for them in a way that they have two, three, four layers of truth up against -- >> but it's not just the payment to stormy daniels, which is problematic but i think you're right, reasonable people could argue that. it's the trump tower meeting, which was collusion with the russians, which he may or may not have known about. strong circumstantial evidence that he did with this call from don jr. to a blocked number. mr. trump has a blocked number. there's that. there's this question of whether he actually knew about the hacking of the democratic party and the release of the e-mails. hinted at by michael cohen's attorney. there's the question of the trump foundation, which the state of new york is going after him on and now subpoenaed mr. cohen about. the walls are closing in on multiple fronts. this is why kellyanne --

kellyanne's really gifted. i know her from campaign days. the reason she's freaking out is this white house is in crisis and the walls are closing in and kellyan kellyanne's isn't that right and she knows it. >> give me a last button, please. >> you are a masterful storyteller. none of this has anything to do with michael cohen. michael cohen does not have a cooperation agreement. we know what michael cohen has gone and pled to. the fact of the matter is the reason why lanny davis is on tv begging for the mueller folks to pay attention to him is because they don't want anything to do with him. he's a toxic witness. he does not have a cooperation agreement. he can go and rattle off -- >> you can go to -- >> we've got to leave it there. >> allegations against the president in the fact of the matter is that has nothing to do -- >> we've got to leave it there. we note process is going to play out. it seems like congress will act to stop anything the president tries to do to frustrate those efforts. he seems to be suggesting he won't do anything, so it will play out, then we will know. and here's my hope for common ground. if two guys as different as you can both decide to wear ugly pink ties on the same night, there is a chance that we can agree on things -- >> these are beautiful pink ties. >> that's why i wore black as

often as possible. i don't want to make that mistake. jason miller and paul begala, thank you for the decent disagreement. appreciate it. the president picks a fight with his attorney general. you heard me talking about that with kellyanne. he watches two members of his inner circle get convicted. he mulls his own impeachment. and my next guest has had a front row seat to all of it. there's the three of them. where do they think we are? where do they think this goes? and how is their heart strength? next. ♪ let your perfect drive come together during the final days of the lincoln summer invitation event get 0% apr on select 2018 lincoln models plus one thousand dollars bonus cash.

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come down here and get a group of them together so we can talk about that because these are familiar faces to you at home. how do they think we're doing? where do they think this is all headed? joining me now is francesca chambers, kaitlan collins and brian karen. sorry to give you my back filip good to see you. good to see you. listen, you had a demonstration of why i can't do your job. i'd be kicked out in two minutes. i'd make brian look polite. but in terms of your sense, frances francesca, i'll start with you. the state of play between the free press and the presidency, where are we? >> we're having white house press briefings now about once a week and i think that's pretty telling, that as this crisis has moved down we didn't see the white house press secretary out there. we had kellyanne conway tonight but we haven't seen senior advisers to the president on television to help manage this crisis. i think that's number one. but number two, and i pressed on this yesterday in the white house press briefing with this paul manafort and a potential pardon, they are not ruling it

out explicitly. and even rudy giuliani, the president's attorney, has said don't do it right now while the special counsel investigation is still going on. i also think >> you cover the president. you don't always say the good things. >> i think this has to do with the president creating a lot of the problems for himself. key point, jeff sessions, kellyanne conway was saying more people should have covered the prison reform meeting that the president had with jared kushner, jeff sessions, and others at the white house. but it it's the president's comment that he's going after jeff sessions, that he's easy on democrats and that he only picked him because he was a loyal supporter during the campaign, that's why we're raising questions whether or not the president is going to fire jeff sessions, because he's making it pretty clear he wants to fire jeff sessions. that's why no one is talking about the prison reform meeting, which we would love to talk about because that's actually a pretty big issue, and the department of justice and jeff sessions really disagree with

jared kushner and others in the white house. >> we follow power. that's not a criticism. if he talked about it more, we would too. >> they're in a bunker mentality. we have a weekly "daily" press briefing. you saw with kellyanne conway what we face daily in the white house. she says we don't want to cover anything. then make yourself available to answer questions about those things. you set up the problems, as you say, caitlin, we have to deal with the answers, then you come after us. instead of answering questions, kellyanne tried to flip it and make you answer her questions. we're not there for that. she says we don't hold him up, we put him down. we're not there for that. we're there to figure out what's going on. it's impossible to do that when you're dealing with an administration, chris, that on any given day, won't return a phone call, will not return an e-mail, will not show up in the press room and then get angry

when you show up to ask them what they're doing. >> i gave her an opportunity tonight, that i ate up all your time. do you think from this point going forward things get better or worse in terms of the dynamic in this country between the press and power? >> i think that's up to the white house. and i did want to make a point, as you were saying, by the way, caitlin, on prison reform, that's not a meeting that was open to us today. that's not go we could have attended. we're just covering what he's tweeting about because that's what he's talking about. >> right. better or worse. >> i actually think it's a small group of people that have a strong dislike for the media. i think a lot of this country realizes that the media is important. i'm from alabama. when i go home, i think a lot of people are thankful for what we do. i think a lot of people are grateful for what the media does, and that we're not there to criticize the president or make him look bad. we're there to say what the

taxpayer funded people in the white house are doing so people know how it's affecting their lives. >> appearance or reality? if you want to deal with reality, i'll take you to tuesday night, charleston, west virginia, at a rally. every time he says cnn, msnbc, nbc, he screams "fake news" and everybody cheers. then individually they come over and want to talk to you and ask you questions. where do i think it's going better or worse? this will sound awful weird, chris, but president trump has made our job, as highlighted our jobs, has reinvigorated the press corps. i think we were asleep for many years but i think we're getting better at doing our job. it starting to remind me of the press room when i first went there in '85 and '86 and watched helen thomas bang on the door and say, you have to come out and talk to us. now you have younger reporters

and some of us older farts. i'm encouraged. >> you're doing a job that matters very much and i'm reaping the benefits of it because i get to make sense of it at night. coming up, all of the fog of legalities, and it came from the president, next. what will you discover with a lens made by essilor? sharper vision, without limits. days that go from sun up to sun down. a whole world in all its beauty. three innovative technologies for our ultimate in vision, clarity, and protection. together in a single lens. essilor ultimate lens package.

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last night the president tweeted this. i've asked secretary of state mike pompeo to closely study the south africa land seizures and large scale killing the farmers. the south african government is seizing land from white farmers. like all conspiracy tripe, there's a kernel of truth. the south african government is trying to compensate for the discrimination against blacks. that could include taking land. but no private land has been seized yet. the scary part from fox, that there's rampant killing of farmers, the crime rate in south africa is much higher than here. make no mistake, the killing is bad, the politics are

problematic but i think trump is sending another ugly message. the proof, white nationalists are cheering. former kkk leader david duke gave big thanks to trump. richard spencer said, getting his base to seriously discuss white dispossessions. don't refer to african and central american nations as "s" hole countries. don't call american black athletes sons of bitches and un-american for being uninherently american. they're our sons and brothers and countrymen. don't rip away immigrant kids and put them in cages.

and please know, i don't call any of this out to attack you or to bring you down. the truth is, mr. president, this is much bigger than you. this is about us, about america, e pluribus unum. we are one out of many because diversity is our strength. thank you for watching. "cnn tonight" with don lemon starts right now. >> i'm not done with you, christopher. i mean chris. >> yes, pal. >> i cannot get that 20 minutes of my life back. >> i hope that it was edifying for you and you saw how difficult it is to get even the most obvious falsehoods and proof of lying to be owned and accepted by this white house. >> they know, and the president does as well, and kellyanne, that you're not attacking the president. they know that deep down. but they can never admit it. doesn't play well for the base.