but it is something that all americans arege go to be asked to pay for and now that we're in this fight. we have to secure the fundamental changes that are needed from china. >> we appreciate you being here, ambassador, thank you. >> thank you. there is more news straight ahead. >> "smerconish" is up next. we will see you in one hour for cnn "newsroom." i'm michael smerconish in philadelphia. we welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. federal prosecutors grand immunity to two of the closest chums in the michael cohen case. were they about michael cohen or about another focus of the federal probe and he was the first congressman no call for impeachment. now he is calling for the

president to resign. i'll ask senator al green if he is hurting or helping the president's cause? plus, he came in third in the 2016 presidential race. now gary johnson has jumped into the senate race in his home state of new members colorado might he be the first libertarian ever elected to the u.s. senate. who ill the pope visits ireland the catholic church sexual abuse scandal is exploding, including here in pennsylvania with over 1,000 victims, why not any politician taking on the church? plus, how much is a low digit license plate worth? few live in delaware, would you believe 400,000 -- that's what this plate sold for this weekend. i'll explain. first, what are the larger implication of this week's revelations that federal prosecutors granted immunity to two all time trump cohorts.

allen weisselberg and david pecker, the ceo of american publisher of the "national enquirer" both were granted immunity about the hush payments to stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, which weisselberg is said to have reimburst and pecker helped with the catch and release of the karen mcdougal community. look, i have no dog in this fight. i'm not rooting for or against the mr. president. i don't wish for his political demise. i simply want to know the facts. they will determine where this story will go. but from a distance, here's what i see. i have to think the feds would fought provide immunity to all three of these men if all that were at stake was silencing a couple women about affairs or a larger issue of election fraud. something bigger is going on here. as i tweeted as soon as the

weisselberg news hit, i don't buy giving weisselberg and pecker immunity to only go after conor to only lay a foundation for a conspiracy to commit an election fraud case against the president. it's got to be something bigger. what they know and are willing to say beyond the concase has not yet begun to leak the associated press says pecker had secrets about trump locked in a face which has been removed and or destroyed and weisselberg has knowledge of all of trump's finances. the only thing i know for sure is there is more here than meets the eye. you don't need to immunize weisselberg, pecker and howard j you to prosecutor michael cohen. cohen is not a mob boss. cohen cooperated without pre conditions. as far as we know michael cohen was not offered an immunity deal. it becks the question whether the three are cooperating against michael cohen or michael cohen and/or donald trump. and if it's the latter, it has

to be for non-russia activities given that is mueller's turf, not the southern district itself. even so, this level of immunity seems excessive if the only thing you are investigates conspiracy of election fraud, impoliticking the president that paid off a playmate and a porn star. what it all supths at least to me -- suggests at least to me they are circling the legal wagons around the president. joining me is ross gar ber the "new york times" calls him the leading impeachment lawyer, he teaches political investigations law at tulane law school. ross, what do you make of what i just said? >> good to be with you. honestly, i agree with you. you know i view the finance

piece of that as a broken taillight. the presidency doesn't immunize you completely from prosecution. doj policy right now is a sitting president can't be prosecuted. it doesn't mean a former president can't be prosecuted. it doesn't mean a president's company can't be investigated and prosecuted and his associates and children can't be investigate and prosecuted. >> if you have pecker and if you have pecker and howard, you don't need weisselberg or vice-versa. why in the world would you need all three and immunnize them to go after a guy, michael cohen, two, three years? he's not exactly a mob boss, right? >> yeah the way investigations work, as you know, michael, is you head up the chain and the other point is, you know, related to that arguably

weisselberg is higher on the chain than cohen is. and so you are right, this does seem to be looking at something potentially much broader. i credit the reports that have come out that the grant of immunity was narrow, it was limited to, you know issues related to this campaign finance issue and issues reamed to michael cohen. but that doesn't mean that's where the situation ends and it also doesn't mean that prosecutor's questions have to be so tightly tailored to that issue. in other words, they are asking about michael cohen and campaign finance issues be you you can imagine they also feed to ask how the trump organization works and what weisselberg's role in it is and whether he had conversations about these issues with donald trump, with donald trump jr., with ivanka and others at the company. >> what should most concern the president of the united states? the mueller probe, the southern

district the attorney general of new york, or the manhattan da? >> so, in short, all of them but we've heard strongly from the president, from his perspective, there was no collusion again, let's credit that. if i were the general counsel of a company that had been operating in new york for a long, long time and my cfo were testifying to the grand jury or in anyway cooperating with prosecutors, i'd be very concerned. especially if it were my children who are running that business now. >> finally, you can't indict a sitting president. says who? >> yeah, you made a good point current doj genes says you don't indict sitting president. in the last investigation of a president, ken starr, when he was an independent counsel,

disagreed with that. he said you can indict a sitting president. although, in that case, he decided not to. but current doj guidance says you don't indict a sitting president and bob mueller is governed by that. that itself not to say bob mueller can't -- >> it can't be changed. >> that's right. >> i heard all week long, i heard this whisper down the lane all week long by legal pundits, accepting this as gospel, guidance can be changed and the reason mr. garber that i ask you not only about mueller and the southern district but also the new york attorney general and the manhattan da is for sure the latter two wouldn't be obligated to follow that standard. >> no, although, you know the notion of a state indicting and prosecuting a sitting president raises all sorts of constitutional issues. i doubt the state would go out on a littleb and potentially

mess up a federal investigation by doing that. i think right now the state investigations are probably more concerning for, football onnumb post-presidency issues. >> bottom line is you and i agree, there is more than meets the eye with regard to immunizing these three individuals relative to michael cohen. thank you for being here. >> it's good to be here. >> is pursuing impeachment of the president something that will hurt or help the president? my next guest was the first member of congress to call for his impeachment in december. tried again if january. now as "newsweek" reports, texas congressman al green, warns congress silence is betrayal. thanks for being here. you know a week ago, we would not have known if michael cohen and his guilty plea a week ago, we would not know of the

immunization of the cfo of the trump organization. doesn't that speak to the pre maturity of the serving the president aren't you better served waiting it all out? >> thank you for having me. this is a sad time in the history of our country and allow me to make it clear so that i do not speak for the democratic party. i only speak for those who agree with me and apparently 70% of the democrats do. i do not believe it's premature. i believe that the president is now an unindicted co-conspirator. i think that carries a lot of weight with it. i think members of congress have a duty and obligation to fulfill the mandate of article 2, section 4 of the constitution, if the president has committed high crimes and misdemeanors, he ought to be impeached. i'm in the saying to you we can impeach today. i do say to you that we ought to

have our judiciary committee perform its function. when have outsourced the function of the judiciary committee to a special counsel. i don't believe it's a good idea. i'm not standing in the way of his continuing. indo believe what happened with nexen would have been the kind of methodology we should have utilized with this president. because there was transparency. when mr. butterfield testified, when mr. john dean testified, the public was aware, public opinion drove the process. as a result the president resigned as opposed to having been inpeechd. >> right. but, congressman, public polls alone don't warrant the resignation or impeachment of the president. all that's in the public record we think we know for sure according to mr. cohen the president directed him to pay hush money to a porn star and a playmate. didn't we learn in the '90s with the clinton intern scandal at

its core sex and a related case is not enough to rise to that level? >> well, we also learned something else with the nixon case, we learned once you start the investigation, you find out things you don't necessarily expect to find. once you start the investigation, have you transparency, unfortunately, many persons are driven by polls. i think you should drive the polls. i think leadership is about changing public opinion rather than bending to it. especially if it's a righteous cause the president with his pervity, bigotry and policy, with his literally resuscitateing jim crowe with his breathing new life into the kkk, and with his firing of comey, we have more than enough for a judiciary committee to start an investigation. you can act later on. i ashire you of this may i just say this i assure fur the

judiciary committee doesn't do its job then any one of the 435 members of congress can act. >> finally, i want to show you what went down on bill mahr, former john brennan had something to say. >> so he's dividing americans. so i'm really concerned as he continues to play to his base, he is further dividing us. i'm really concerned about whether this could spill over into the streets. >> do you share his concern that this koucould spill over into t streets? short answer, i'm lit e limited on time. >> i do share a concern. i also know there is a remedy of this. it is the house of the congress of the united states of america. we ought not lallow this to continue without our engagement. our silence at some point becomes betrayial.

i hope we are not at that point. >> thank you, congressman. i appreciate your time. >> go to my website, smer isconic -- smerconish.com. tweet me and go to my facebook page as well. i will incorporate some into the program. well, sergio, that's the president's point. right? i was going to say, get ready for the sound byte. but he's already offered it to you. they went looking for russian collusion and the best they could come up with was an allegation that i directed a payment to be made to a porn star. or a playmate. i get it. >> that will be liss souhis sou. you can't ignore illegal

conduct. this is the nature of investigations. whitewater began as an investigation into a shady land transaction and ended with an intern scandal. you articulated what the president will say about it. up ahead, he ran and got 4.5 million votes. now libertarian gary johnson has jumped into the senate race in new mexico against the democrat. i'll ask him what he thinks will be a critical swing vote in washington. because there are op. like an "unjection™". xeljanz xr. a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma and other cancers have happened. don't start xeljanz xr if you have an infection.

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libertarian gary johnson running for office again. he famously came in third in the presidential election getting almost 4.5 million votes and 3.3% of the national vote, the highest since ross perot in 1996. many accused he and green party candidate jill stein of playing spoilers in a race decided by slim margins in a handful of

swing states. with the mid-term less than three months awhat johnson served two terms as governor. he was nominated by the party this month after the previous libertarian candidate withdrew. johnson is running against democratic senator martin hein rick and nick rich. does he have a shot despite his henri? could a libertarian win a senate race this year, suggesting johnson has already surpassed rich as the choice of both republican and independents. governor, great to have you back, fiscally conservative and essentially cool. yeah, thank you. here's the point, right, already fiscal conservatives in walk. there are socially cool representatives in walk. but there's nobody who is both. is that your void?

>> well, what's at stack here is oeshlly being the swing vote in the senate. so if you've howeverer ever heard me talking about running for the u.s. senate. i said, no way, it's about bellying up to the trough. the last thing we feed is more spending in washington. deficit this year will be a trillion dollars. look at deficit spending where the key to success in zimbabwe would be the center of the univer universe. >> the question i'm trying to get at. you may sigh it's a suggestion of where i go, i meet people fiscally prudent, socially liberal, you don't see representatives in washington who bridge those two worlds. why not? >> well, that was my witch i pitch running for president.

i did put it on the line i did run for president. why not? the largest political affiliate. you talk about this all the time. are you the voice for where is the representation when 45% of americans are rejszstering as independent. that's the way it is in new mexico. so paraphrasing george washington. he says, if this country ever devolves into political parties, we're done for. >> that it should be about independent people, getting into office, getting out, making their contribution. i'm a firm believer in term limits. i think that would be a silver bullet. but, hey, where is the independent representation that i believe are fiscally conservative and socially don't give-a-damn as long as what you do if your life doesn't adversely affect mine. >> did you wait too long to get into this race in.

>> michael, this came as a complete surprise. this was aubrey dunnes idea in new members colorado total surprise. he came to me six weeks ago, said i'd like to drop out, i'd like you to be my replacement. i think you have the possibly of winning and we looked at it and that possibility exists. >> i don't think i've heard governor johnson assess the trump presidency since the election of 2016. so take 30 seconds or 60 seconds and lay it out for me. how does gary johnson see the presidency of donald trump? >> well, so, as the swing vote the fact that taxes got reduced, terrific. the fact that rules and regulations have been knocked down significantly and i think they will continue to be knocked down, look, that's a good thing.

if regulations only add time and money to our lives and don't do anything else, isn't that a good thing? but where is the spending reduction to go along with this? his words regarding immigration and the border and building a wall, i completely disagree with. we are a country of immigrants. and bottom line, i don't think he tells the truth. there is a lack of integrity with donald trump and that's what i built my career on is telling the truth and having integrity and let it lay. look, we're all human beings. i'm a human being. i think i was born with an overdose of common sense. that doesn't appear to be the case with donald trump. good, bad. >> you know the prospect exists the democrats take the house, have an impeachment vote,

throwing it to the senate where you hope to serve, have you thrown in the fact that there is an impooeacimpeachment trial fo trump? >> that's what excites me running for new mexico two terms. looking at both sides of the equation. i ultimately vetoed or signed ledges london attacks. i may have vetoed more legislation than others combined. i enjoyed the process. i think i ruled any over it with common sense. i think the people of new mexico saw that that's right now what i'm reaping. i'm reaping a lot of good seeds that i've sewn in new mexico my entire life. donald trump, on the other hand, i think the seeds he is soak right now will have negative implications for all of us for

decades to come. >> governor, thank you for having you back. thank you for being here. >> thank you so much. thank you for being this voice in the middle. look. it's somewhere in the middle. it's purple. i wore my purple shirt. did you know i? >> i did notice. it looks good on tv, by the way. i want to know what you think, go to smerconish.com. does impeachment hurt or help president trump? we will see what you are saying as you are voting. what do we have in hang loose, mr. president, got to love gary jonson. hey, john, i knew the weed subject would come up, especially when gary made reference to seeds. was i the only one thinking that? but the guy was ahead of the curve in that regard. i'll say this about gary.

fiscal conservative, social liberalism. that's where i think most of the country is the. not the ideologues that we see on television. you know, both in the pundit class and the media host class and the elected representatives. right? that's not a representation of who is on the other side of the camera. people on the other side of the camera are not ideologically cliven or conservative or liberal on everything. it's somewhere in betweening that's what he speaks to, in my view. proep frances is visiting ireland -- pope francis is visiting ireland. will he address the pain it has inflicted? where are the calls for national action by leaders? erica hill introduced some of the survivors. >> i would get high so i can separate myself about what was about to happen to me.

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appalling crimes, the latest case is in my home state of pennsylvania. where the attorney general issued a nearly 900-page grand jury report. it details hundreds of priests going back seven decades across all of the state's arch die sichlts since it's release, victim versus received more than are 500 calls and other stories keep comes across the globe, clergy sex abuse force justice is intolerable they pointed out they are condemning the sexual abuse of thousands of children across the united states marcy hammond joins me now, she is the founder of the non-profit think tank for child usa. are those words still true?

i know a few days have checked off the clock. has anybody with a national platform spoken on this issue or call for hearings? >> not one in fact, i'm waiting for anyone to say three words, clergy sex abuse. it hasn't happened. >> pennsylvania, marcy, i know from your work is unique insofar as each of our archdiocese has now been examines by a garage with appalling rules. do you think they would be unique if a similar microscope were placed on any other archdiocese? >> we would sigh the same number, cam louseness on the part of the institution. unfortunately, this is baked into the catholic system at this point. it's not just true here in the united states, it's global.

>> you know the criticism, memories fade, witnesses disappear. at least all unproven allegations. >> well, here's the problem with that lean of reasoning coming from the benefit. it may be true in other crimes, it's not true for child sex abuse victims. they remember the room, what they had on. but in addition, the secrets the catholic church holds are in their secret archives the reason we have this nearly 900 page report is they were forced out of the hands of the bishops in pennsylvania. the facts were forced into the light. they have the facts. when there is no justice, no ability to go to court, you can't get to those facts. the bishops hold them all. >> in pennsylvania if we had a hypothetical 15-year-old victim of abuse a prosecutor could

pursue a claim of that 50-year-old. however, that same 50-year-old would have no civil redress. what explains that disconnect? >> what explains the disconnect is the lobbying by the catholic bishops and insurance companies, even extensions. when the 2005 grand jury report came out from philadelphia, which i worked on, we were able persuade harrisburg in the past extension from age 30 to age 50 for criminal. no one would do anything for the civil claims in pennsylvania and they haven't since. >> is the concern that this could financially wipe out the chur church? >> they say, the church is the longest land holder.

they own so much property so it's impossible to track it. what they're really worried about is that there are more secrets, they're worried about their reputations, their power. >> one final aspect, the standards of proof differs. so you can be 50 and theoretically meade meet a burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt but are deemed unworthy by the preponderance of the evidence. help me understand that. >> for the civil claims, it's the preponderance of the evidence, over 50% of the certainty of the evidence. what's happened in philadelphia and across the kun company. we have fact coming out across the entire state of pennsylvania. we have lawmakers that continue to take the side of the bishop.

they don't want civil claims. why? you don't get a line that's in a report. you get a full complaint you get all the fact. what this grand jury report is, is a summary the lawsuits would open the door. if we were to revise the expired claels, that would open the door and that's what the bishops are fighting. >> i'm so glad you are here. we have put this on the radar screen as a challenge to see who will stand up and pursue this they'd be alcoholping at the bit for tv time. thank you, marries, i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> still to come, how much do bitters in delaware pay for the privilege of a low digit license plate? would you believe nearly double the median house price? we'll get into it in a moment.

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what is the case here? the emerat auctions in rehoboth, california. explain this to me. it's baffling. >> well, it's something pretty much only individual to delaware, michael. i mean, it's been going on since the '50s, originally in the mid- to late-50. they were traded for political physicals, you know, two political physicals and people of means as political favors. in the '60s they started trading for a fair amount of money. we've seen tacks leak this number 20. we've seen them go from $5,000 say in 1962 to 405,000 today. you know, it's like in delaware -- >> it's not exactly an attractive plate. i'm look at it. it's a non-descriptive license

plate i've ever seen? >> yeah, michael, they like them in original et boo up condition. you can get the tag remade right now for a couple hundred dollars. but it will lose a lot of it value. so this is the delaware thing. they like them low. they like them beat up and they like them on their cars. >> okay him one through three, i know you told me are held by state officials. so the first one up for grabs is football four. who has it? what do you think it's worth? it was owned by a banker, tyler mcconnell, his bride, his widow, actually has that tag now. i would have to say, i hope i'm not speaking out of turn here, i would say it's worth over a

million dollars. >> a million dollars? >> right. we sold number six about five years ago for several thousand and number two for two digits. >> last week you sold a four digit number for $14,500? >> that is actual lay record other than 1, 2, 3, 4, we sold years ago for $40,000. listen, in delaware, it's always been, not only is there a lot of prestige involved. it's always been a situation where they keep going up in value. you can enjoy it. it's on your car, it's prestigious. it never goes what were but up,

historically. >> i know the veep has that '67 corvette he loves. i have to imagine joe biden has a mate as well. >> i think he does, i don't think it's well, well low. he's a fiscal conservative. >> i get it. >> i can't honestly tell you what joe's number is. i'm sure he probably has a fairly low number. most politicians do. >> butch emeratmosphere. thank you, that's a lot of fun. good now. >> thanks a lot. i appreciate being on. have a deteriorate day. >> still to come, your best and worst tweet itself, facebook comments. you have one last chance to vote on the poll question of the day. there it is. does impeachment talk at this point help or hurt president trump? go vote.

time to see how you responded to the question. does impeachment talk at this point help or hurt president trump? 52% say it helps. it helps president trump, 48% say it hurts president trump. i mean, you get the issue here, right? i think it is factually premature for democrats to be talking in those terms about

this subject as i pointed out to my guest, a week ago we didn't know michael cohen was pleading guilty and that the cfo of the trump organization was given immunity. who knows where this thing is headed would be my answer. what else do we have. give me some reaction from the show. it helps him because it will turn out voters. melissa, yes, it fires up his base, it plays into his argument that this is nothing but a witch hunt and intended to overturn the lawful result of an american election. they went looking for collusion. and the best they can come up with is a payment to a porn star that i had nothing to do with. that's the line. what else? smerconish, democrats should stop talking impeachment and focus on getting voters out to vote. the base, good bad or ugly are already in line. you know what, frederick, the democratic base, great piece in the times today about this, the democratic base love the

hardcore, far left, love the impeachment talk. it stimulates those most against the president and those most for him. that's the conundrum. give me another one. smerconish, who are you going to piss off today, the left or right? proof of your balanced commentary. hey, guy, i think i pissed off everybody. by the end of the hour, i'm accused of being in the tank for the president and completely unfair to the president, largely because of my affiliation. neither is true. neither is true. somewhere in the middle lies the truth. give me another. hope you're really a dead guy, by the way, that's a good thing. hasn't smerconish ever seen the godfather movie? michael cohen is the consigliere, not a mob boss. what i'm saying is all the effort that went into immunizing three individuals to get michael cohen who will do what, two or three years, doesn't make sense

to me. i'll explain it to you this way. if you have pecker and you have his lieutenant, do you really need allen weisselberg? and if you have weisselberg, do you need the guys from the national enquirer, need all three of them and give them immunity just to go after michael cohen? that makes no sense whatsoever. i'll go back to what i said at the outset of the program, and that is that the southern district of new york is circling the wagons around the president in my view. catch up on cnn on demand. everybody says this is great, i can't wait to see it. cnn film labor day at 9:00 p.m. on cnn. i'm off next week for labor day weekend. see you back here in september. (vo) this is not a video game.

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