political divide that will be gathering this week. >> thank you, miguel, very, very much. don't miss full circle on facebook, where you pick up some of the stories, you can also see it weeknights at 6:25 eastern at facebook.com/anderson circle. we hand it over to chris cuomo. >> chris cuomo, respect, john mccain gets it for the strength not nearly the length of his service to the nation. respect, president trump could not give it to mccain until he was shamed into it this afternoon. tonight we're going to get after this. when will our president understand that the flag and the office he holds actually belong to the people and he must act in our interests. plus this moment should be less about trump. so we're going to take time to be positive in the midst of pain. we have something very special for you to hear tonight.

a final message from mccain to you, his fellow americans. plus a provocative question, did the pope know? explosive new accusations from a former vatican official who claims the church abuse coverup went all the way to the top. so tonight we'll have a cardinal on the show, who was named in the disturbing testimony. what do you say, let's get after it. so all over the country flags remained at half staff in honor of senator john mccain, but not at the white house. that is, until veterans groups and pretty much every corner of the national community demanded that their white house show the respect for a senator who deserves it. so let's talk about why. what the senator meant to his family and to his country and what we need to carry on.

let's bring in s.e. cupp the host of unfiltered which airs saturdays on cnn. and we have david axlerod, of course, host of the "ax finals". >> se, you know the mccain family. how are they doing and going through this process of what their father meant, what their husband meant, where are they? >> well, it's, as you can imagine, been a really long and trying year. what people may or may not understand about this particular disease is that there are great days, and then bad days. and you sort of never know where it's going to turn. and so, if you can imagine the emotional roller coaster that this family has been through over the past year having great days, a great week, at times sending nurses away. and then to have it turn in an

instant. the back and forth, the ups and downs have been so brutal psychologically and emotionally on meghan and her mom and her whole family. but on the flip side, the gift of time that they all had to anticipate this and prepare meant they all got to spend a lot of time together. meghan spent a lot of time out in the desert with her dad in the peace and quiet of the arizona desert, reflecting on his life and his legacy, and their relationship and that was such a gift that they all got. and i know in the end, it was something that the senator really -- really appreciated and leaned on, and something that the rest of the family was really, really grateful for as well. >> hopefully -- look, i know they're going to process this on

a personal level, they have to, but hopefully it'll mean something that they know that everywhere you look in political culture, people are tipping their hat to a man who deserved it. forget about the politics and the positions -- >> absolutely. >> we are seeing that, right? >> there's no question about it. because of the times in which we live those qualities are so much more acute in our minds. i mean, john mccain -- to paraphrase john mccain, i respected him -- i have great differences with him politically, i respected him enormously as a great american. and someone who really understood what this country is about. like you, chris, my family were immigrants, my father was an immigrant. they didn't come to this company because there was an open scrap of land to settle in and pitch a tent. they came here because of the values that animated this country, because of what it stood for. and he understood, and he stood

for that. this notion that america was a very special place. that we're the inheritors of something special and we need to fight to preserve that. and everyone around the world respected him for that. this animated his life. >> a good story that ax has that you may not have heard before. after the election he starts the institute of the university of chicago. you're thinking the democrats come out and speak and give cache to what ax is doing. who was one of the first people to say he'd work with you. >> john mccain. i essentially ran a campaign with others against him in 2008. he was one of our first guests at the iop, and he came and spent time with students. he did an event for prospecting for support for the institute. why? because he thought inspiring the ethic of public service was something that he should do. it was something he believed in,

he lived it, he wanted these young people to live it as well. and it was really such an impre impressive thing that he was -- now he had a few barbed lines about some of our past exchanges. >> sure. >> which were well received. >> you were going to get it with him. he meant what he said. >> they always came with humor. >> he said to me, how can such a big head hold so few ideas that make sense. >> exactly. >> and i was laughing. he meant it. he was a combatant. he wanted to battle ideas. he was a fighter in every different field, venue there was s.e. and i wonder -- >> i'm sorry chris. >> i want to bring s.e. on. you don't have people like that in politics. setting aside the completely unique service he had by political standards. coming into office he achieved something and sacrificed in a way you almost never see.

but the genuineness and authenticity of what he was, like him or not, i hope the family knows what a unique place he holds. >> i think they do. the moment that has been widely circulated from the minnesota town hall that david axlerod remembers well, where senator mccain told a supporter, he's a decent man, i just disagree with him. there's a moment that isn't getting as much attention but should. where a supporter got up and said i'm scared of a barack obama presidency, i'm scared of that. senator mccain said you don't have to be scared. we just disagree. don't be scared if he becomes president. if you think of the current climate that preys on fear, president trump does it, republicans do it, democrats do it, certainly right now that is highly acute. to imagine a man taking an opportunity and passing it by to

say, no, you don't have to be afraid. i might disagree with him on policy but do not fear him. that is something that he echoed today in that final statement where he said, we are going to be stronger after this. i have to tell you as a conservative of a certain perspective who is deeply concerned about the health of my country and my party, i was so grateful that john mccain said that in his final moments that he comforted people like me to say it's going to be okay, we're going to get through this and we're going to be better for it. that meant so much to me, and i'm sure i am not alone as a republican who is concerned, in saying that was really, really important. an incredible give he gave us in the end. >> ax, what do you want people to remember about the senator? >> he did my first ax files show on cnn, during that conversation he talked lovingly about people

he fought with in politics. what he remembered was doing combat with ted kennedy, titanic fights on the floor, and then walking arm and arm. and ted kennedy said we showed them that time. the fact he understood you could compete vigorously over ideas in this process of ours and still have great respect for others is something we need to remember, and something we're losing. one of the sad things about his departure is that there's one more great voice for reconciliation who is lost. and now it's up to the rest of us to live up to those ideals that he counciled even up to his last. >> i remember, s.e. my father who obviously is gone as well, saying to me when i was getting ready for mccain in an

interview, he said, just go to what he believes. he is the real deal. don't try to make him dance for positions, you're going to lose. just talk to him about what he believes. he's the real deal. high praise from a guy who couldn't be more different in terms of politics, but what mattered most, same page. se, send our best to the family. >> i will. >> sometimes in these moments i'll be honest with you, we truncate things to what we assume is going to be a short attention span. but tonight i believe you want to hear all of a message that will blow you away. i have something to read to you. and we're going to give it to you in the best way we know how next. when you rent from national... it's kind of like playing your own version of best ball. because here, you can choose any car in the aisle, even if it's a better car class than the one you reserved.

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...or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. senator mccain left us a gift. a message that is never mattered more and it comes from a man who lived it. here it is. my fellow americans whom i gratefully served for 60 years thank you for the privilege of serving you and the rewarding life that service in uniform and public office has allowed me to lead. i tried to serve our country honorably, i made mistakes. but i hope my love for america

will be weighed favorfully against them. i often feel i'm the luckyiest man on earth. i love my life, all of it, i've had adventures enough for ten satisfying lives. and i am so thankful. like most people i have regrets but i would not trade a day of my life in good or bad times for the best day of anybody else's. i owe this satisfaction to the love of my family. one man has never had a more loving wife and children that he was never more prouder of than i am mine. i owe it to america to be protected to america's causes, liberty, equal justice and respect for all people brings happiness more sub lime than life's fleeting pleasures. our identities are not circumscribed but are enlarged

by serving causes bigger than ourselves. fellow americans that association has meant more to me than any other. i lived and died a proud american. we are citizens of the world's greatest republic. a nation of ideals, not blood and soil. we are blessed and are a blessing to humanity when we uphold and advance those ideals at home and in the world. we have helped liberate more people from teernny and poverty than ever before in history. and we have acquired great wealth and power. we weaken our power when we sow hatred and violence in all corners of the globe. we weaken it when we hide behind walls rather than tear them down. when we doubt the power of our

ideals rather than trust them to be the great change for deals they have been. we are 320 million people that argue and compete and sometimesville fie each other in our debates but we've always had so much more in common with each other than in disagreement. if only we remember that and give each other the benefit of the presumption we all love our country, we will get through these challenging times. we will come through them stronger than before. we always do. ten years ago i had the privilege to concede defeat in the election for president. i want to end my farewell to you with heart-felt faith in americans i felt so powerfully that evening. i feel it still. do not dispair of our present difficultie difficulties. we believe always in the promise and greatness of america because

nothing is inevitable here. americans never quit, we never surrender, we never hide from history. we make history. farewell, fellow americans. god bless you and god bless america. thank you to senator john mccain for words that matter every bit as much with him gone as they did every day of the time he spent here with us. this is a man who represented the best in american politics. he was a statesman, willing to put principles over party. trite but true, and done infrequently. and unlike our president, who always puts the me before the we. will we ever see another john mccain in the gop or anywhere else? i don't know. it's trump's party now. but let's take up that question, because it matters. it's the great debate next.

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policy and politics, i respect senator john mccain's service to our country. the president said it, but many of us don't know whether he believes it. in fact, all indications are it is exactly because of mccain's disagreement with trump's assault on the aca and many other points of character and leadership that trump disrespected mccain even in death. when it comes to how the president has related to this senator, there's only one thing you need to remember. >> let me get to it. he hit me. >> he's a war hero. >> he's not a war hero. >> five and a half years -- >> he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people who weren't captured, i hate to tell you. >> today when he was asked about these questions about senator mccain, what was the president's response? take a look. >> mr. president, any -- mr. president, any thoughts on john mccain?

>> mr. president, any thoughts on john mccain, sir? >> any action to the american legion asking you to put up a proclamation about john mccain? why won't you say anything about john mccain. >> bakari sellers and rick santorum. can you dignify that for us? >> i don't think it does anything for the memory of john mccain to use him to beat up the president at this point. let's focus on the man and what he did and his life. but the media seems to have this fascination to try to use the death of john mccain to further belittle and beat up donald trump. >> you think we need this to find reasons to criticize the president? >> you are if you need to or not. >> this is a moment that matters, rick. you should think about how you behave in it as well, all of us should. john mccain made a point to not have him invited to his funeral.

>> why not beat up on john mccain -- >> because i don't think he's wrong to do it, it's his fun ya. >> you're not beating up on john mccain, you shouldn't beat up on the president. >> i'm not beating up on the president, i'm playing his words and the fact you would see those as indicting of his behavior i think puts the point out there for everybody, bakari because in moments like this, you guys all get measured who wants to lead the rest of us, how will you act? what do you make it about for the rest of us? the president took that opportunity and did what he wanted to with it. fair point. >> i think what we're seeing right now is that donald trump turned this republican party into one of coward es, you see people like rick santorum, who contort themselves into pretzels to defend the president. you have john mccain, even democrats, people on the left who want to chastise him. for whatever his policy may have

been we're saying now is not the time. but you have the president of the united states who doesn't believe he's anyone who has to stand up and show the rest of the world that the united states is the beacon of morality. the beacon of what it means to be ethical. the beacon of what it means to be the leader of the world. you have a president who's small, petty, who's a sociopath. i'm not a doctor, but definition, the absolute defense is truth or a piece of truth. i can tell you he has a dose of sigh copthy. but you have a president today who did not stand up, a president this week who did not stand up and show the best of what we can be. that's a problem. john mccain deserves all the glory. john mccain is a republican that i can say if my son wants to be a republican when he grows us, be john mccain. that's okay. you don't have to kowtow like

rick is doing on tv and make excuses for a president that does not deserve excuses. >> you agree with bakari about what senator mccain meant for your party? >> i do. i will continue to comment that john mccain was a great american. i didn't always agree with him -- >> you don't need to. you don't have to agree with him. >> i understand that. but because the president didn't heap praise on john mccain and that made him a lesser person, i think it's the reason -- >> he said nothing for two days. >> he didn't say nothing. he tweeted out immediately. >> con dodolences to the family. that's what a president says when you lose a major figure? >> but you need -- >> i think chris is wrong here. with all due respect to you and rick both. i think you're wrong here. you're expecting more of donald

trump than we expect of him. i mean, donald trump is the same person who believed in birtherism whereby i mean, was someone who took the mike -- >> this is why nobody listens to the media. you keep saying -- >> how is that not true? rick, is that not true. >> trying to beat up this president for everything. if he does something, he doesn't do enough. if he does something, he doesn't do it sincerely. >> rick, when i say something that's not true, you chime in. the president was the original person who was beyond birtherism. >> wasn't the original. >> that's what he believed in. john mccain actually took the mic from someone who thought barack obama was a muslim, these are two vastly different individuals. i disagree with you, i disagree with chris, i disagree with both of you because i don't have

higher expectations for donald trump. rosa parks said it best, you have to believe people when they tell you who they are. donald trump has shown to be who he is. today for some reason chris and everyone else has a higher level of expectation for donald trump, i do not. what we know is that john mccain was a great american. donald trump in his death can only ascribe to be that great. right now he has a long way to go. >> rick, in the good-bye letter, the farewell letter that john mccain wrote, what do you think his main message was in it? >> his main message in his entire career was american exceptional. i find it remarkable that bakari sellers and your brother who doesn't think america is great -- >> you're so petty. >> play straight. >> who's calling who petty, bakari? >> i'm calling you petty, rick. >> you've been trouncing me since we got on this program.

>> god forbid you be better, rick. make sure you lower yourself. >> i'm not lower yourself. >> you are. you're talking about my brother not thinking america is exceptional. >> he said it. >> he said it, he was wrong and he corrected it. god forbid our president try it, god forbid you try it. >> i think donald trump corrected himself quicker on this mccain situation. >> hold on a second. did you hear the president say he was sorry for disrespecting john mccain? did you ever hear him say he was sorry for lowering the staff and putting it back up? have you ever heard him apologize for anything, rick santorum? >> all i can tell you -- >> no, yes or no, have you ever heard the president apologize for anything. >> i don't know where we're at -- >> no. >> we're where it matters.

>> john mccain deserves a better dialogue than we're having. >> that's because we decided to politicize john mccain's death. >> you started it, rick, so let's chill. >> it doesn't have to be about right or wrong. >> john mccain was the bigger fighter than the three of us on the screen. >> i want to have conversations on tv, in private or public where we get back to where we once were as a country. john mccain was emblematic of what it means to be an american. i can say that as a black american from south carolina. the problem we have right now is that people contort themselves into believing something we're not. like the fact is we deserve to be better than we were yesterday, better than we are today -- >> bakari, all respect. >> i'm not done, rick. we have to believe in what

tomorrow can hold. john mccain represented that. whatever you want to say about the affordable care act and all that stuff, we have to understand what it means to be american and right now we're being fair petty. >> that's a fine and fair point to make rick, make your last point. >> i had some really tough fights with john mccain. it was his ability to forgive and move on and look at the best interests of america. bakari look at what was said by democrats in 2008, he was called a r a racist, everything in the book and he moved on. >> you forgot that george w. bush said he had a black child in south carolina. let's not blame this on partisanship. that's how george w. bush won the primary back in 2004. >> john mccain was able to forgive and look past these things and look and do what was

in the best interests of the country. >> he was a good man, he was a fighter and he believed in things that are important to remember today. but let's make one thing clear, bakari, you fight for what you think is right. it gets hot, it gets hot. as a man he was beyond reproach, he lived through things and made sacrifices the rest of us couldn't imagine. in politics he'd come at me, it was going to be hot but then he moved forward and came back the next time. i expect that from bothov you as well. thank you for being on. >> all right, chris. from one political situation to another. and this one is a real crisis and one of accountability. generations of sexual abuse are being revealed within the catholic church. it's very real and the problem doesn't seem to be receding. there are new allegations that implicate the pope from one former vatican official. we're going to take you inside

the situation all week. we're going to start with a cardinal who's named in this new testimony from an archbishop who's making ugly claims about him. the cardinal answers next. after walking six miles at an amusement park, bill's back needed a vacation from his vacation.

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all right. a former archbishop and vatican ambassador to the u.s. says that pope francis should resign. the man's name is carlo vigano and he claims the pope knew about abuse and didn't act regarding sexual abuse by theodore mccarrick. the pope has not commented yet

and vigano's claims are just that at this point, unsubstantiated allegations. however a man of his standing, experience and understanding within the church, those allegations are going to warrant investigation. we reached out to the cardinal and he wanted to address the acindicati accusatio accusations. cardinal blase cupich joins us. you're mentioned in this letter, what is your take on the testimony? >> i would have to say i was quite stunned that he spoke about me in a scornful way because as i said in my statement when i was appointed, he called and said he had news of great joy, he was here in chicago for my installation and spoke very warmly about my being the archbishop of chicago. so it really came out of the blue. i'm somewhat perplexed by it.

>> there are three main allegations. let's deal with the first one. the second and third are specific to you. i'll get to those. the main one is you say in your letter to the archdiocese how can this be happening again? i don't think the concern is that it's happening again, father. it's that it never gets fixed. it never gets addressed by the church. that the proof is consistent in every way that this is an institution like any other, and it protects itself first. do you agree with that criticism? >> i think that there surely was evidence in the pennsylvania grand jury report that that was the scenario there. but i can tell you, here in chicago, we have followed the charter faithfully. and even giving over our records to authorities and listing all the names, as well as giving them to the police, of people who have abused. so what happened in pennsylvania, surely that charge could be made. but let's make sure that we

realize that there are almost 200 diocese in the united states, and there are diocese that have followed the charter. >> well, as you know, your state where you are, illinois is now looking into it because maybe as many as seven of the priests mentioned in the pennsylvania grand jury report had connections to illinois. do you think that you can promise your parishioners with 100% credibility that they will find nothing in illinois that was overlooked by your diocese? >> right. right. in fact, i had had a conversation this morning with our attorney general assuring her that we want to fully cooperate with any investigation that they would like to make. and i reminded her that we have already turned over all f on our documents and they have been reviewed. so i'm confident that we're in good standing. we want to make sure that we set an example here and we do take this matter seriously. so i'm confident, yes.

>> so you believe that after the attorney general does her probe, she will find nothing, no cases, that were overlooked by your diocese? >> i am. in fact, legal authorities -- civil authorities already have our documents. so they've reviewed them already, and we also have cooperated with the law enforcement to make sure they always have the names. >> let me move on to what the other big mention is in this. there is this passion within the catholic church to explain as much of the abuse as possible on priests being gay. and vigano is big on that. he cites you now as an example of the problem in the leadership of people who are too open minded to priests being gay that you protect gay priests that you ignore the facts. don't the facts show that while

cases of aphebafelia, means when a teenager is abused, they peal to the pedophilia cases. that blaming this on gay priests seems not to just defy the facts but take confidence from the overall mind set of the church to get this right. >> i would go with not what my opinion is or anybody's opinion. i go with the facts that were the result of the john jay study that we had in 2011. and they were very clear that there is not one particular cause, and surely homosexuality was not a 'cause. there were other causes as well for the abuse crisis that peaked in the late '80s. there are other social factors as well as opportunities. if you reduce this to

homosexuality, what you're saying is that gay people are more prone to abuse children than straight people. the facts don't bare that out. the research does not bear that out. i have said that quite publically. i know there are people who take issue with that. the holy father and i are on the same page on this. this is about a group of people in the church who think they're privileged and protected. and that has to -- that has to go away. we have to remove that. >> in terms of the holy father, the pope francis issue, do you think that you know whether or not what he knows, what he has been told about this, what he has acted on, and what has not been acted on, do you think you can state for a fact what he knows and what he doesn't? >> well, i have not talked to him about this, but i would say this to you, chris. any time the holy father has had

actionable information he has acted. let's look at the mccarrick case if other popes news about it, it was pope francis who took action as soon as cardinal dolan made his report. and cardinal dolan did his job in reporting this. and in chile, when the holy father got it wrong, he said he got it wrong and he was part of the problem. the pope is a man of integrity. and he will, in fact, take this -- take the right road and make the right decisions when he has actionable material, i'm confident of that. >> is vigano wrong that mccarrick tried to help you get your position where you are now in chicago? >> well, i would say, first of all, that scenario and that narrative seems to presuppose that i dropped out of the sky. i've been a bishop for 20 years, i've been appointed by three different popes. there have been studies and investigations on my suitability

for a diocese in all three cases. so as far as i know, the work that the holy does for vetting people for various positions, i've never heard of one person going into the pope's office and saying you should appoint this one individual. that's absurd. >> cardinal cupich thank you for taking the opportunity to defend yourself. and we'll stay on this story. >> i hope you will. >> the state of illinois is doing a review of the diocese. you're going to see it all across the country. we will stay on it. now another tough question for me to ask. why isn't this show coming to you from jackson ville tonight? you know people were shot up there, right? it is the latest in what has become a signature american moment. what we now know about what happened at that gaming tournament and why we have

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heard about the jacksonville shooting this weekend? it's not that bad in terms of what else we have heard. i have heard that a dozen times this weekend. i was thinking that way myself for a moment. republican governor rick scott said we have to change. we have to really stop and say to ourselves there is something wrong. he should know. in the past few years florida has seen several mass shootings. there were 17 people killed at stoneman douglas high school. five people gunned down at the fort lauderdale airport, 49 people killed at the pulse night club. these murders are now signature moments. the more they happen the less we react to them, not the more. let's bring in don. there is a reason that we are not coming from there. why? the numbers aren't that big, the national attention is not there. there is compassion fatigue. we are really surrendering to a

status quo that is agonizing because it is avoidable. >> i agree with you on all of those things. we also have to remember john mccain died. that takes a lot of what we do here in the news -- a war hero -- you are right. i heard some disgraceful things this weekend, too. i overheard someone saying that is what happens when you allow guns or carry guns. someone says the guy was just crazy. what about that? you are ignoring the central part of it. we are not talking about a stabbing death or a car death or someone who punched someone to death. we are talking about a shooting death. in that i don't see how people can just sort of bend themselves into whatever you want to call it. this person had an issue mentally. you can have that. don't forget what the vehicle

is, the mechanism. the mechanism is a gun. we need to figure out how we deal with those things. no one wants to take anyone's second amendment rights away. just remember -- i thought about this -- even with an automobile, you have to have it registered, take care of the nurinsurance a get it inspected. for something that is as deadly and can take as many lives in an instant as a gun we don't have the same rules, that is an issue. mark mckennen wrote an amazing letter about the legacy of john mccain. he will be on our show. i wanted to get that in there. >> lift us up. we can talk about the problems. so we will talk about the president and the closing and why this happened now with john mccain and how it is not disrespectful to talk about what is wrong.

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indecency. if you respect senator john mccain's memory you would never dismiss the obvious instruction at play here right now. trump didn't like mccain. maybe he was jealous of him. what isn't fine is our president indulging his gripes in a national moment of loss. he didn't lower flags for mccain more than necessary because he didn't want him remembered more than necessary. it wasn't an oversight. it was a slight just like with the journalist at the capitol gazette shooting in annapolis. contrast with billy graham. when the reverend passed they kept the flags lowered longer. trump liked graham. the truth here is as plain on the look on trump's face when he was asked today about the senator. three times he refused to answer questions about mcccain.

reporters were shouting at him to weigh in. they got nothing. so why is the flag back at half staff now if what i'm saying is right? because trump and company got what is necessary in this moment wrong. people who matter shouted him down. he looked like a loser, as he would say. someone or a group got through to trump. lower the flag, show respect. do what a president does in times of national pain and loss. be best, not a hashtag, heartfelt. we know th we get that trump doesn't mean thoughts and prayers. the senator didn't want him at his funeral. the point is you do it anyway, mr. president, because it is not about you. it is about us and what we want held up which in this instance is very clear, service to country, selfless devotion to

the good fight. and in mccain, a very uncommon form of leadership today. more than most of his station, senator mccain was honest about his mistakes of both personal and political nature. mccain wasn't perfect. he was flawed. what made him better than most of us and a leader is he owned it. he relied on his weakness to guide him going forward. that is an instruction for our leaders of today and certainly our president. rick is right. it shouldn't all be about trump not when this is about john mccain even in a point of contrast. on a personal note, mccain was a fighter. i respected that. he gave me a hard time sometimes. he didn't like some of the questions. i respected that, too. i have also been where his family is right now. i know the pain and the fear that they will never be able to replace. i have no solve. there is no remedy that i know

of for the senator's passing. as was told me when my father was gone, someday, not today or tomorrow, but someday you're going to think about the senator, your husband, your father, your friend and a smile will come to your face before a tear will wet your eye. and i do pray that that day comes sooner than later. thank you for watching tonight. cnn tonight will take up our coverage with don lemon right now. >> i know you know it is not about me. i lost my father, lost my step father. i can only imagine what megan mccain is going through right now. i just hope that one day their sadness is transcended and they can smile with memories of what a great man their father and their husband was. >> i hope they tak