it's week nights 6:25 eastern. hope you tune in, the news continues, i want to hand it over to chris cuomo for cuomo prime time. >> i never miss it. donald trump has been exposed as a tax cheat and his story about how he made his fortune has been exposed as a fraud according to the new york times. a deep dive into trumpdom that cuts through skin and gristle down to the bones of a scheme to shelter money for the sake of donald trump and his siblings and foresaking tax liability to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. is this why the president doesn't want to show us his taxes? we have a perfect guest to ask one of the big names democrats have to take on trump in 2020. the rosenstein ruckus, and what he says is the hidden boogy man

in many the midterms. all this news cannot distract from the fbi watch on the kavanaugh confirmation. we have breaking news tonight on the investigation. what do you say? let's get after it. we have a new investigation by the new york times, telling me to rush over, i can't with my neck. the investigation takes a look at how much fred trump loved his song donald and his other children and hated paying taxes. it is a granular probe, 100,000 pages of filings, documents, depositions, experts, insiders all coming together to paint a picture of outright fraud according to the paper, in part allowing president trump to increase the massive fortune he received from his father fred. what's the headline for the president, self-made my eye. trump says he hit a home run in business. he wasn't just born on second base as we all know. his father carried him around

third and threw him toward home. trump has long insisted that his father provided almost no financial help, and a small loan of $1 million. take a listen. >> my father gave me a small loan of $1 million. i came into manhattan, i had to pay limb back with interest. i started with a $1 million loan, i built it into a billion dollar company. i built that into a massive empire, and i paid my father back that loan. >> the problem with saying something a lot that's not true, you start to believe it. the new york times proved what many have suspected for a long time. that million dollar loan, that's not true. they found at least $60 million in loans back then, that would be worth $140 million in current dollars. trump called his father's

business just good, not great. fred trump was worth way more than his son apparently. he lauded cash on him from jump. by age 3, mr. trump was earning $200,000 a year in today's dollars from his father. he was a millionaire by age eight. the biggest payday he got from his father is when trump and his siblings sold off the empire, donald's cut was 176 million. that was a piece of the pie that fred trump was feeding his self-made son over the years. all in all, the times says that self-made trump received at least $413 million in current currency, from his father's real estate empire. the times documented 295 streams of revenue that fred trump created over five decades to enrich his son, and minimize taxes by all legal means and according to the times,

questionably legal and maybe worse than questionably legal. how did they do it? >> they did it by creating, according to the new york times, sham corporations, by filing improper tax deductions and undervaluing real estate. if you're not a multimillionaire or you haven't spent time investigating them, you won't know that that's not unusual. rich people find ways to hide money, there are a lot of loopholes in the tax code that they use. but then there's how he helped trump's fate as a quiet envester and helped bail out many failures. in december of 1987, fred trump bought a 7.5% stake in trump palace. so what, that's not wrong. most if not all of the investment, which totalinged about $15.5 million. was made by exchanging donald trump's unpaid debts for trump palace shares. this is according to records, you get it? he owed his father money, his

father bought a part of his property, his son gave him shares and that retired the debt. he didn't pay it back, the shares were worth $15.5 million. he sold it back for $10,000. what does that mean? 15.5 million. you sold it back for 10,000, that's a gift of $15.49 million taxable as a gift. fred trump reported no such gift. did donald trump? i don't know. fred and mary transferred over $1 billion in wealth to their children. that's not really wrong, you have money, you want to give it to your kids, we understand. what about the taxes? 55% estate tax, that would be $550 million. the trump's paid a total of 52 million. it's about 5% of what they were supposed to pay. deny everything through his lawyer and attack the source.

this is the response. the new york times allegations of fraud and tax evasion are 100% false and highly de familiar tory. president trump had no involvement whatsoever with these matters. he was certainly part of the architecting of this scheme. the affairs were handled by other trump members who were not experts themselves and, therefore, relied entirely upon the aforementioned licensed professionals to ensure full compliance with the law. the white house is also responding, sarah sanders says -- it's sad to witness this misleading attack against the trump family by the failing new york times. many decades ago, the irs signed and reviewed these transactions. sarah, the million dollar thing, you got to be careful, she tells the story that the president tells, he only gave me a million, i paid it back with interest. we now know that's not true, if you keep saying you know it isn't true, you wind up owning

that untruth yourself. it raises a question. is this why trump won't show us his taxes? is he moving the money the same way? let's bring in the experts, michael zeldin used to investigate kneexactly these transactions for the government. jennifer and steven. michael let me start with you. legally, i don't see it, statute of limitations maybe on the civil side, fines, when you look at what's in this report by the times, what gives you pause? >> so you always have to, in these matters, make sure that you understand the difference between lawful tax avoidance and illegal tax evasion. you have to really parse these transactions almost transaction by transaction to see whether or not they were taking advantage of loopholes in the tax code or

end running them in terms of legal evasion. what stands out to me the most is the valuations of these properties. for tax purposes, there was a low value set for the property so taxes paid were reduced. and when collateralizing for other loans and matters by which they sought equity, the value was inflated. that movement of value of property within a short period of time to me, reflects more on the evasion side of the leather than the avoidance side of the leather. >> there's something, let's bring you in on this. i thought what was interesting in terms of architecture was when the family or whomever winds up having the guilt in this, or the responsibility of putting the money on that company. people would sell things to the trump company, this company would invoice them, pay them back and charge the trump organization directly.

fred trump therefore filtering more money from him to where he wanted it for the kids. that's fishing. >> that's right, that's the one that looks to me to be the most criminal, as we know, they're all too old to charge now. that's the one where you have a run of the mill fraud, not just a tax evasion. here they are literally defrauding people, defrauding the government, but also defrauding others, including ultimately some of their tenants as they try to raise prices based on what we know is false reporting. >> i am a louzer investor, but if you give me $400 million i'm going to do okay. i do believe this is about honesty on one level. the president saying he got a million from his father, when he got 60. he was self-made and fred trump was only good, he was great. we see in this clear time line,

that's he's been feeding from the fred trough his entire life isn't this the truth, isn't this something he should own instead of saying he's a self-made man? >> let's get to the heart of the matter, which is the issue of whether or not he was involved in criminal fraud, which one of you just said. and whether he was guilty of tax evasion, which is a crime. tax avoidance as we've all agree on is not a crime. in fact, every good businessman and woman in america, does tax avoidance. >> it's a skill set. >> everyone wants to reduce their tax -- >> of course they do. no one wants to pay more in taxes. i want to get this story straight, it doesn't add up, donald trump has probably been audited hundreds of times, there's probably not too many people in america who have been audited more than donald trump. >> how do you know that? >> he said it, he -- >> oh. >> well, first of all, why wouldn't they audit you. >> you're asserting that these

three reporters from the new york times have discovered all of this tax fraud, when hundreds of irs auditors didn't find it? i mean, that just isn't plausible. incidentally, this is about the fourth or fifth time, the new york times has run this story, i remember they ran the story six months before the election. they keep repeating the story -- >> no, this is new. >> it's all new? it's not new. >> a lot of this is new. >> i did this investigating, i did it where a team at abc news. it would be comical if it weren't so scary at the time. i would have phone dialogues with donald trump, every time we would give him his net worth. he would double it. >> for someone to take $100 million and turn that into a $10 billion business. that's one hell of a businessman. >> do you know -- >> look at the enterprise, every city in america has a trump hotel. the real estate development. i mean he's an incredible

businessman. >> we're going to take a break because there's a lot to chew on here, we have facts and then we have feelings about the president. and they are not meshing, okay? >> is he a self-made billionaire? is he a billionaire? maybe. probably, most will say yes. self-made? how do you make the case? is he responsible for a scheme to transfer money in a way that it should not have been done? maybe. we have a lot more to go through with our panel. i've never seen more granular reporting than the new york times has. we also have a former attorney general who could be a future presidential candidate. what is his take on all of this?

they work togetherf doing important stuff. the hitch? like you, your cells get hungry. feed them... with centrum micronutrients. restoring your awesome, daily. centrum. feed your cells.

the new capital one savor card. earn 4% cash back on dining and 4% on entertainment. now when you go out, you cash in. what's in your wallet? - grandpa, look what i'm reading! have you read about astronaut abby? - no, sweetheart, i'd love to, but the print is just too small. - [spokeswoman] nls is a free library service from the library of congress for people who have difficulty reading print. - (laughs) now i can listen to astronaut abby's adventures, too! - [spokeswoman] all nls patrons receive a free talking book player upon enrollment. call 800-885-1111 today. you always get the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed? let's say it in a really low voice. carl? lowest price, guaranteed.

just stick with badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com now, what is the signature story for donald trump. no matter what i say, no matter what i do, i am one hell of a businessman. pulling myself up by my bootstraps. a new york times investigation says no, no, no. he built it with tax schemes and outright fraud. still with us, michael zeldin, steven moore and jennifer rogers. two former prosecutors and an economic expert. that's what i'm giving you, steven moore, let me ask you this, this is the question for michael zeldin. you heard steven moore say, it's a $10 billion business he built, he's been audited dozens of times, what do you make of those statements? >> i have no basis to know whether that's true. nor do i think does steven.

so the easiest way too resolve this uncertainty is for the president to release his past ten years of corporate and business tax records so we can understand what is the truth and what is the fiction in this. the other thing is, much of the tax evasion avoidance discussion with respect to the new york times story, would relate to fred trump, the father's tax returns and how these were addressed, and we don't know the answer to how, if they were audited at all, so i think steven is assuming facts not in evidence, and until we see those tax returns, we can assume only that the times -- i think mostly has it right, until proven otherwise. >> no one likes to have a taxman in their life. but one thing that has to be pointed out. when you and i were going at it at the commercial, jennifer came in to speak truth to power. all audits are not equal.

well, he was audited, everything must be fine. >> these auditors are busy people. as we were talking about, sometimes they don't pay any attention at all if you say you've earned nothing. we don't know what went on at the time. i'm sure they were looked at to some degree, but the numbers they've presented are staggering in the undervaluing, it has to be intentional, whether it's donald trump or the professionals they surrounded themselves with, i'm not sure. the all county thing, the shell county looks to be a fraud. the rest of it, who knows, we need to know more. >> i'm willing to look past everything about the father god bless him for making that money, god bless him for giving that to his kids. my point is this, donald trump has been telling a story about himself for a long time that is

false. and now you see it in the reporting of the time line you saw, his father transferred hundreds of millions of dollars to him. bailed him out, bought casino chips worth millions of dollars that were never used. took an interest in a building that was paid back at a fraction of the cost. which is just another way to get a gift, that's the truth. >> look, i can't comment on how much money. >> you must. >> i just don't know the facts. i don't know how much of the wealth -- >> it didn't stop you with the $10 billion business. you don't know that he has a $10 billion business. >> in one or two generations, a fortune can be squandered and nothing is left. donald trump took that money and build an empire. >> he was given an empish. >> every city in america, has a massive trump hotel. >> he doesn't own the buildings, he's not his father. he licenses the name. >> let me make one other point.

i thought it was rather hypocritical say, his father didn't pay any estate tax. guess what, the kennedys didn't pay aniey estate tax. >> oh, then it's okay. >> billionaires don't pay an estate tax. >> are they president right now and saying, i won't show you my taxes? >> why are we revisiting this? >> because it matters. >> it was adjudicated during the election. i'm going to make a deal with you, this is the heart of the matter, let's find out from the irs how many times donald trump is audited. >> i'll give you that, it's not the heart of the matter, if he's been audited hundreds of times, how could the new york times come up, you're saying that the new york times is better at auditing these tax returns than the people who -- >> it doesn't mean they have the access. >> it doesn't make any sense. >> people get around the tax

code all the time, legally, kind of legally, and otherwise. >> it's not that easy. >> steven is zee fledeflecting rather effectively. >> the president says i did it all myself, my father gave me a million dollars, he was good at business, he wasn't great. i had to pay him back with interest. the rest on me. demonstrably false, yes or no? >> according to the new york times, false. going back to the point that we are addressing with steven moore. it is the valuations that prove the truth of the proposition, which is, when property is values for tax purposes as worth something much less than what it's sold for a few years later, unless there's a major spike in the real estate market, that is indicative of false valuation. >> no it is not, that happens all the time. all the time on tax return. >> steven, excuse me, excuse me. >> people deappreciate the value. >> but when you do it so much

that grossly defies estimates of buildings in the same area, it looks suspicious. obviously you need more. we have a president that doesn't want to disclose anything. that's why i wanted to have the discussion. steven, michael, jennifer. you were the best in the whole panel. thank you for all three for making sense of this. we're going to look at it a different way. when we come back, who would you say is the democrats best chance to beat president trump if anyone? eric holder is going to be on everybody's short list and he is here. what about the times report, what does he think? >> rosenstein, 2020, the fbi with kavanaugh? all of this we have the right guest for you when we come back. touchdown. earn a free night when you stay just twice this fall. or, badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com

(door bell rings) it's ohey. this is amazing. with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, are you okay? even when i was there, i never knew when my symptoms would keep us apart. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira can help get, and keep uc under control when other medications haven't worked well enough. and it helps people achieve control that lasts. so you can experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection.

be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible.

thanks janet! it's my happy place. you can learn how to switch to xfinity mobile, a new wireless network that saves you cash. ...and you can get five lines of talk and text included with your internet! and over here, i'm having my birthday party. dj fluffernutter, hit it! simple. easy. awesome. ask how to get $200 back when you sign up for xfinity mobile and purchase a new samsung phone. visit your local xfinity store today.

new information tonight on the kavanaugh investigation. the scope of the fbi probe appears to be expanding. not by the senate, but by the fbi itself. they did four interviews, that's what we've heard. now we're told they may go beyond that. two sources tell cnn, they may look at kavanaugh's high school friends, listed as attending a party on the nominee's calendar from 1982, what does this mean? let's bring in eric holder, welcome to prime time? >> good to be here. >> the concern with this probe is that it's not a real probe, they only have a few days, there's a report they may be done tomorrow. now we're told they're seeing something, and they may want to expand. how do you make sense of what is logical here. >> i think there's a lot of speculation as to what the state of the fbi probe is. my hope is that the bureau does what they normally do, which is

to be tasked with the responsibility of trying to determine the facts, the truth, and then they follow leads, they send people out, they follow the information and let the information direct them to where they should go, as opposed to being directed by the white house, or being circ um crimed in their actions by the white house. >> limited in scope was the phrase we kept hearing. >> if they say they want to chase this down, how does that come to me tomorrow. >> when i was attorney general and we had to reopen a background information. we need you to look at a certain subject matter. and then the fbi was free to look at that subject many i'm concerned that the white house here may have told people -- told the fbi to look at certain people, do not speak to other people. far more prescriptive that is normally done. >> the problem is, we're not going to know. they're going to report back to the white house, white house will tell the senate. we're going to have to depend on leaks, if it comes back that there was good reason to believe

that the judge was not honest, not about corroborating the sexual assault allegations, let's say they have nothing on that, but he didn't tell the truth about what his yearbook means. is that worth not confirming him? >> there are a few buckets you have to look at, did he commit those acts when he was a teenager? did he lie while he was testifying in a whole variety of ways before the committee. and what about his temperament, and the way in which he conducted himself in that questioning? did he conduct himself in a way you would expect a person to be on the supreme court to. you have his judicial philosophy, looking at that second one, if he in fact lied to the committee -- >> what if he just didn't disclose fully, what if he just misrepresented. what if it was a sin of omission? >> it would depend on what the omission was about. if it is about that which brought the senators back into

that second hearing, that to me seems serious, and could from my perspective, cause a no vote. >> another subject, the president of the united states points out your relationship with barack obama is what he wants in it an ag, i want somebody to protect myself. someone who has me the way holder had obama's back. >> i didn't see my job as protecting the president. i didn't have to do anything to protect barack obama. this president clearly thinks there are things he needs to be protected from, and he wants his attorney general to do it, which is inappropriate. >> if when the president, obama was asking you to do the job. if there was an investigation going on, that you knew you would have to recuse yourself from, is that something you would have disclosed to him? and do you think that's something the president would have needed to hear from you? that's trump's beaver with sessions, i put you in there, and then you stepped away from the thing i put you in there to control. >> that's an anticipate tory thing. i'm in the process of talking to

barack obama whether i'm going to take the job as attorney general. >> this was more obvious with the russia thing outstand something. >> had that been the case, and i said to him, it's likely i'm going to recuse myself in the russia investigation. i don't think he would have seen that as a disqualifier. >> do you think you would have had to step away? >> i think he clearly did the right thing. we're on ideological polls. i disagree with a lot of the things he's done. with regard to the recusal, i think that was the appropriate thing to do. >> if you were he, would you step down? >> barack obama as a man talked to you the way donald trump talks to sessions. >> i could not have taken as much as he has taken. by taking what he has taken, he not only weakens himself as attorney general. it has an effect on the institution, at some point you have to say to the president, no, you have to respond to the president. these are extraordinary things,

i've never seen a president talk to the attorney general in the way this president has spoken to his attorney general, i think you have to respond in extraordinary ways. always thinking about how you are going to protect the institution. >> they're quiet on the investigation. what do you think happens with rosenstein? >> you know, rod's a good guy, i've known him for 20 years, he's a man of integrity. i think he's done a lot to protect the mueller investigation. >> do you think he would talk about the 25th amendment and say i want to wear a wire? >> that doesn't strike me as rod. i can see him coming back and say, man, you won't believe what this guy said. >> that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. >> would you now, the same question i asked about sessions. as someone who is the wall between the mueller investigation and the president,

would you step down if you were rod rosenstein? >> that's a difficult -- he's the person who is actually involved in the investigation, i suspect is the protector of the investigation, i think you have to realize that the institution is bigger than any individual. the removal of an individual is not going to mean that the institution is going to crumble or fail. attorneys general come and go. deputies attorney general come and go. the justice department keeps chugging along. >> did you know that the fbi and doj were populated with a bunch of lefties that were waiting for a moment to strike? >> one of the things you don't do. i served for 12 years in the public integrity section. my first job when i came out of law school. one of the things you didn't do was to discuss politics with the people you worked with. ien did the know the people i

worked with were republicans, democrats, conservatives or liberals, the first guy i ever tried a case with, and that we lost was a republican, i didn't find that out until 20 years after we tried that case. >> you don't buy the mccabe struck or the kabul, the 13agery men, it's a lefty conspiracy? >> no, there's no lefty conspiracy. let's think about the campaign and all the leaks that were coming out -- aparentally of the new york fbi office that were directed at hillary clinton, that was not the -- >> and comey coming forward. this all teases up for 2020, you want to make this easy for me? you going to run in 2020? i am, as i said, thinking about it, i'm going to decide next year, right now, i'm focused on november 6th, and making sure we have a good midterm election. >> that's not a no? >> that's not a no. >> when are you going to decide? >> i think the first quarter of next year. >> you think you can beat him? >> it will be interesting to

see, two guys from queens. i know how to talk to that guy. i know dorney truchld, i know that guy. >> do you take limb toe to toe. >> it's time for democrats to be tough. you can't get in it just to make a statement. we have to go into the next contest with the idea we want to win, we're going to do everything we have to do to win. when you get hit, you hit back harder. >> it's tough to do that and and salvage decency. if you want to have a fight, we can have a fight. how do you get people to find common ground. it's a segue to something you're worried about during midterms. you're saying the fight's over long before you get to the election because of redirecting. that leads to the congress members and on and on. you say that's a big ill.

how do you know it, and what do you do about it? >> you look at what happened in 2011 princeton has done a study and said, that's the worst partisan redirecting over the last 50 years. democrats have consistently gotten more votes than republicans and have far less in terms of percentage of representation, that leads to gridlock in washington, where people do not want to be seen as cooperating with the other side, at least the cynicism, when people see this gridlock, and so what we're trying to do in 2021 is to make sure we have a fair process, not a gerrymander for democrats. just a fair process. >> we have to file lawsuits, where we can do that, we are supporting reform efforts. we should take this out of the lands of politicians all together. and have independent commissions draw the lines. california does that, arizona does that. we're supporting efforts like that in michigan, utah, missouri, and colorado right now. >> it's an interesting ground up

platform for a presidential campaign. you're literally starting at the grassroots level, not suggesting that's why you're doing it. >> i think that's where we have to start. democrats have been thrilled about the top of the ticket and we have been ignored who are down ballot, that's where everything percolates from, including congress. >> former a.j. eric holder, i hope this is the first of many discussions. you were born in the bronx, right? >> born in the bronx, moved to queens. >> moved up. president trump reflects on the stories of sexual assault that have been bubbling up. he says it's a scary time in america. his point has a lot of folks pissed off, why next?

a moment of joy. a source of inspiration. an act of kindness. an old friend. a new beginning. some welcome relief... or a cause for celebration. ♪ what's inside? ♪ [laughter] possibilities. what we deliver by delivering. walking a dog can add thouswalking this many?our day. that can be rough on pam's feet, knees, and lower back. that's why she wears dr. scholl's orthotics. they relieve pain and give her the comfort to move more so she can keep up with all of her best friends. dr. scholl's. born to move.

-of course, daniel. -fridge, weather. -clear skies and 75. -trash can, turn on the tv. -my pleasure. -ice dispenser, find me a dog sitter. -okay. -and make ice. -pizza delivered. -what's happened to my son? -i think that's just what people are like now. i mean, with progressive, you can quote your insurance on just about any device. even on social media. he'll be fine. -[ laughs ] -will he? -i don't know. you always get the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed? let's say it in a really low voice. carl? lowest price, guaranteed. just stick with badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com

let's all take it easy, let's let the process play out. that's what the president said. now when he's talking about judge kavanaugh and his accuser he's mock egg her. >> i had one beer. you think it was --

>> no, it was one beer. >> how did you get home? i don't remember. where was the place? i don't remember. how many years ago was it? i don't know. >> would they applaud like that when he was talking about stormy daniels and he knew nothing about it. women should be married of their men. >> think of your son, think of your husband, i have had many false accusations, i've had it all the -- i've had so many. and when i say it didn't happen, nobody believes me. >> that's because there's a question of whether or not it's true. you see don lemon in the screen right now, he has a lawsuit against him from one of the accusers. but the larger issue here is, here we are in a cultural moment, where we're trying to tell people, it's okay to come forward. it doesn't mean everybody's right, it doesn't mean that as soon as you make an accusation, somebody else has to be

punished, but you should come out. it's a safe thing to do. what does this message do? >> well, a couple things here, number one. in the first sound bite you played. i'll get to what the message does in a second. he could be talking about brett kavanaugh, except for the one beer part. i had one beer. at first i was like, is he mocking brett kavanaugh? he said, i like beer, i like beer, i like beer, if you drink that much beer, who knows what could happen. is his memory serving him properly? >> so he should probably think about that before he does that, because the person he is backing up is the person who espouses to loving beer and drinking so much. as far as the message, it's a terrible message, if you teach your boys to do the right thing and treat women with respect, you don't have to worry about it. >> right. >> because they won't put themselves in that situation. and if there is no evidence

there, there is no evidence there to back it up, we should be more concerned about young women than we are about men in this culture and society. tone deaf. >> i think that -- well, i think it's tone deaf, but we have to remember what his filter is. >> it's also desperate. >> he's thinking about himself. he said yesterday, you've lived a perfect life, and then all of a sudden someone comes out with an accusation. who has lived a perfect life. i've never had to ask god for forgiveness, i haven't done anything wrong. he's thinking about himself. >> yes, he is. if you want to know how he feels about women, google donald trump and howard stern. and you will figure it out. and by the way, the man that he's backing up, who says he was a choir boy, that we talked about last night, if you're going to say you're a choir boy, you better know how to sing.

in the letter to this whole thing in the calendar, we have the editor of the new york times on. it would probably be a good idea on saturday 18th to warrant neighbors that we're loud and obnoxious drunks with prolific pukers among us. and how does he sign it? >> he signs it, fffff. >> boy, he sure loves making fun of that stuttering guy. >> that's not stuttering. >> that's what he says it was. >> that fffff is not stuttering. devil's triangle is not a drinking game. and buffing is not flatulence. just being honest, he knows that, everybody else does, except for maybe some senators who want to believe him. >> what will it mean to senators. >> i don't think it's going to matter that much. >> i hope it does.

>> i hope you're right. >> we'll hold you to it. >> something different next. it is arguably more important than anything else we have discussed to this point. i'm going to introduce you to a man with a story that will twist up everything you may think you know about opiod addiction and who falls prey. and dennis rodman. this is worth sticking around for. that is not dennis rodman.

bye. have fun. bye. chloe. fall in love with iphone xs on t-mobile, the most loved in wireless. and right now, save $300 dollars. so let's promote our falle a homecomingtravel dealame, on choicehotels.com like this. touchdown. earn a free night when you stay just twice this fall. or, badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com

♪ the new capital one savor card. earn 4% cash back on dining and 4% on entertainment. now when you go out, you cash in. what's in your wallet?

remember this? >> i'm just saying -- i don't give a [ bleep ] what you think. i'm saying to you, look at these guys here, look at them. >> dennis, don't put it often them. don't use them as an excuse for the behavior you're putting on yourself. >> they came here. >> you basically said kenneth bay did something wrong, we don't know what the charges are. >> that sounded pretty tough when he couldn't get at me. that was dennis rodman in north korea, not happy with my testing the situation. he was unraveling personally, he was still relevant and he wound up being right about north korea. during all that, my next guest

helped rodman share what he faced himself, his name is darren prince, he's the opiod addict you never hear about, he was a success as a teen. and by the side of stars with everything going for him. his fall an it's called "aiming high." >> you check every box of success, and yet you had this struggle that so many are having in this society. what does that mean to you? >> well, i'd like to say that it doesn't matter if you're from yale or jail or park avenue or park bench. we're all potentially exposed to addiction. i was a very high bottom opiate addict for 20-plus years and living a complete lie. very few people knew of it. eventually in the end, being stuck in my own head, i was just miserable. >> you go on.

you start a celebrity-representing business. how did you manage to do so much and be so high functioning while fighting such a pernicious addiction? >> once those pills were in my system, chris, honest will i just took over a room. from there they just found out what they thought was the real me. a lot of people didn't realize how sick i really was towards the end. thank god i was one of the lucky ones. i was blessed on july 2nd, 2008, to turn my bottom into my beginning. i didn't think i could do it, but i fell on my knees with the last of my opiates in pmy hands and something came over. every fiber in my body wanted this more than anything in my entire life. >> the dennis rodman interview that was my introduction to the cnn audience was on new day. that was like a nightmare interview for dennis rodman at the time. i wasn't looking for a fight with dennis rodman. i was just trying to get to him. but he exploded. what was your take on that, what it meant for dennis and what it meant to new. >> he just overdid it with the

booze. dennis has been open about alcohol. this was an exciting time. it really was, truly. we thought we pulled off something historic, and dennis thought this great achievement, great accomplishment, was unraveling, and he was going to lose this amazing, historic situation that he put the usa in and he overdid it. you've got to see the real dennis too. he's got a big, beautiful heart to him. >> but then something happened that nobody ever imagined. north korea and the united states having this massive summit, and all of the sudden, dennis rodman winds up becoming a clairvoyant, and we hear word from south and north korea that really dennis rodman was an influence in, you know, kind of bridging and understanding. who would have ever thought that i would interview him again under those circumstances? >> it was incredible, man. it went full circle. and dennis has his own little

dream team. they go out there together. they do these private meetings, and they just make sure that everything's cool and hopefully something real positive comes out of it. >> when i met him after that, he looked at me, and he said, you know what you did. i said, i don't know what i did. i don't know that i did anything. and i had a box of donuts. i said, you want a donut? and he said, no, i don't want a don donut. you know what you did. you lit the match. you lit the match. i was like, dennis, i don't want to get into it with you again. he owned it immediately. he goes, it was all me. it was all me. >> he's so happy and so proud. it's a beautiful time in both of our lives. >> darren prince, thank you so much for writing the book, and please know that as i can help tell the story going forward, i'll be there. >> thanks, my brother. >> "aiming high" is a book that shows you what it took for darren prince to beat addiction, what it takes to keep him off it, and what he showed dennis rodman to help him on his way.

it is worth reading. now, when we come back, i have a closing argument about what today means to donald trump. you always get the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed?m let's get someone to say it with a really low voice.

carl? lowest price guaranteed. what about the world's lowest limbo stick? how low can you go? nice one, carl. hey i've got an idea. just say, badda book. badda boom. badda book. badda boom. nice. always the lowest price, guaranteed. book now at choicehotels.com (door bell rings) it's ohey. this is amazing. with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, are you okay? even when i was there, i never knew when my symptoms would keep us apart. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira can help get, and keep uc under control when other medications haven't worked well enough.

and it helps people achieve control that lasts. so you can experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible.

donald trump is like nothing we've seen in the presidency. one aspect is that we've never seen a president exposed for lying the way trump has been. the latest, he said he didn't know about the stormy daniels payment, but he did know. he helped plan it. he even got his son involved to quiet his mistress, reportedly. but it's the times report today that hits trump where it hurts. he is not the self-made man that he says. that redeeming quality that so many set against all his offensive words and deeds. how many times have you heard it? well, he is really good at business. he really made a lot of money. no. he's good at selling what helps him. you'd be wildly wealthy too if i gave you $400 million.

the times got it right. here is what can be said with certainty. had mr. trump done nothing but invest the money his father game him in an index fund that tracks the s&p 500, he would be worth 1.96 billion does today. now, he says he's worth $10 billion. you heard stephen moore echo that. moo -- i investigated his net worth many years ago with an excellent team at nbc news, and his numbers were grossly exaggerated, and he would show no real proof. and then we started to push and we started to get close, he threatened to sue us. he threatened to sue me personally. he threatened to sue my parents. he literally wanted to damn me back to the womb for questioning him. it was all smoke. i knew we were right. he is all about the sell and always has been. him being self-made, millions of illegal voters, the wall is the

perfect cure. immigrants are scary. it's all about the same thing. and more and more the thing that defines trump most consistently is not telling the truth. that's it for me tonight. thanks for watching. "cnn tonight with don lemon" starts right now. no evidence. i've spoken to biographers of donald trump, people who have known him for years. among them, tim o'brien. you know him. >> i worked with him on our investigation at abc. >> david cay johnston, michael d'antonio. there is absolutely no proof that he is even a billionaire. so if his money had just sat there, he may have been worth more than what he -- you know, than what he really is worth now. >> he's a great salesman. he's a great marketer. he's great at getting people to believe things. whether they're the right things, whether they're true, whether they're virtuous, that's something else. if you had been on these phone calls, don, you would have -- your head would have fallen