this is "cnn tonight."

i'm don lemon. judge brett kavanaugh looks hours away from a seat on the supreme court. americans and the senate are bitterly divided. can senator susan collins laid her cars on the table with a 45-minute speech defending her decision to support cask thawinthawin kavanaugh. lisa murkowski explained her opposition on senate floor tonight. >> even in these situations, the standard is that a judge must act at all times in a manner that promotes public confidence in the independence, integrity and impartial of the judiciary and shall avoid impropriety and the appearance of impropriety. and after -- after the hearing

that we all watched last week, last thursday, it became clear to me or was becoming clearer that that appearance of impropriety has become unavoidable. >> so there you have it. judge cav mao's heated testimony last week impressed president trump but it hurt him with others like senator murkowski. now with his confirmation all but certain, the question is, will the supreme court become just another partisan institution? and what will that do to this country? what will that do to america? let's discuss now douglas brinkley, susan hennessey and harry litman. it's good to have you on. douglas, people are increasingly asking me how do we put things back together again after the last few years. what are your thoughts? >> we're not going to be able to do anything, don, with the

elections looming. if you were opposed to judge kavanaugh and you're angry tonight, you have to do what barack obama always says and get out there and vote. you've got to look for democratic candidates you like. if you didn't like seeing all you know white men on the judicial committee, you've got to vote for claire mccaskill for senator in missouri or jackie rosen in nev. this is one battle in a larger fight where the country is headed in the future. it's a big loss for the democrats but it's not a time to throw in the towel. after the election, there may be time to rethink how we don't have to have this debris strewn ugly fight that's so brutal for our supreme court nominees kavanaugh will be on the court. today was the best day of trump's presidency by getting had imhis second justice through. >> susan, we heard republican lisa murkowski a moment ago saying that the judge's behavior was one of the reasons that she

could not vote for him. why was she -- why do you think she was the only one on the republican side that that mattered to in the end? >> i don't know that she was the only one that that mattered to, but i think this was the thing that pushed over the edge, the open partisanship we saw from cav maug in the thursday testimony. she was speaking to yes, the supreme court has always been a somewhat political body but the basic legitimacy of the court depends on viewing judges as making rulings based on the law and not on their political preempbss. she was speaking to the idea that will brett kavanaugh can't unring in bell. the op-ed seemed to make things worse. now that he has been openly partisan in front of the american people, every single decision he makes i think there's going to be a question marking about whether or not they should be viewing this as legitimating. > you know, harry, what kinds of

rulings do you think we'll see coming out of this court? how will this change america? >> well, i this i we can expect in fact the consolidation of a conservative majority for upwards of 20 years. but senator murkowski is dead on. there will be some 5-4 decisions that will come out and they will all of them have this sort of double asterisk on them. the court all it really has is its credibility which has been historically high. there were several junctures where it took a real hit all based on decisions by the court. here you have from the outside this problem visited on the court a perception of partisanship that will be renewed with every new 5-4 decision which you just have to imagine will happen. i don't think that you'll sesay roe versus wade overturned but

there are many areas and executive power, federalism, church and state, et cetera that the five-person majority will flex its muscles. with each time, the scab will be kind of torn off again and the feeling of unfairness of the process will be renewed. >> you know, douglas, this is i guess the question is, does the process matter once he's on the supreme court? because when kavanaugh joins the supreme court, he's going to be a majority minority justice. in other words, he'll be in the majority on the supreme court but nominated by a president that lost the popular vote and was con filmed by senators that are represented a minority of the of american population. is that a problem? >> it is a problem but it reminds me back when fdr didn't like the supreme court's decisions being made so he tried to pack the supreme court from 9 to 15 and he created a huge

brouhaha but he did get in william o. douglas, the longest serving supreme court justice in u.s. history. the republicans never liked douglas. they tried to impeach him in the 1960s and '70s for some of his behavior, articles he wrote in magazines and the like. i think the democrats have to be careful to not start the impeach kavanaugh movement. right now you're getting the democratic party being anti-trump anti-kavanaugh party. they need to tell the american people when they're for. roberts may end up being the centrist vote here. i'm optimistic. i think he's partisan at heart. during the affordable care act decision, he showed a kind of reasonable balance. you have to keep fighting. there will be another supreme court slot opening in a few years. the question is also donald trump be president or somebody like amy klobuchar of minnesota

who i thought emerged as the great star of the democratic party from these televised hearings. she went to yale also, university of chicago. she runs in iowa, she may be the person to take on trump. there's silver linings out there for the anti-kavanaugh americans. >> interesting. susan, the supreme court is now in a position, what does this mean, the court is in a position where it's significantly more conservative than the rest of the country. >> i think there are two ways in which we're seeing the court hurtaling towards potentially a crisis of legitimacy. one is the partisanship and the manner in which kavanaugh was appointed to the court. two the issue of the president having lost the popular vote and the notion we have five justices that are substantially to the right of the majority of the country on really, really important issues. now, that can occur sort of at the margins. the supreme court sometimes does

things they're not responsive to political polling. whenever that happens too often, and it begins to feel fundamentally undemocratic so i do think that either we're going to see something like chief justice robertss moving to the middle to avoid it the 5-48 splits or more and more we'll hear about potential large scale reforms to the supreme court, potentially considering things like 18-year terms. >> i got to play there, harry. i want to get your response to it. this is justice elena kagan on the makeup of the court. >> in the last really 30 years starting with justice o'connor and continuing with justice kennedy, there has been a person who people -- who found the center or people couldn't predict in that sort of way. that's enabled the court to look as though it was not owned by one side or another, going

forward, that sort of middle position, you know, he it's not so clear whether we'll have it. >> so whatever the disagreements harry, among the justices, how important is it that the court, that the supreme court be perceived as not owned by one side or the other. >> i mean, it's everything. going back to what doug said about the fdr effort, the reason that came about, i mean it was considered ill advised. the reason it came about, that was the last time we had the same kind of five-person had i gem ohny. what happened is you ceases to listen to the other side. you're going to be wasting the talents and thoughts of kagan and sotomayor and breyer and ginsburg. that court was the one that became greatly discredit ditted, the so-called loughner court after douglas was appointed, it came into a different era, but every time and there's only been a few you've had that kind of

rock solid five-person majority, it's been bad for the court. you don't want that kind of had i gem mony. you want them to talk to each other, bargain, reason and come to some kind of results that reflect something of the spirit of the country. there's a real risk when it gets out of step. >> all right. thank you all. i appreciate your time. judge brett kavanaugh all but certain to be confirmed. one of his yale classmates is speaking out saying he shouldn't get the seat on the supreme court. hundred roads named "park" in the u.s. it's america's most popular street name. but allstate agents know that's where the similarity stops. if you're on park street in reno, nevada, the high winds of the washoe zephyr could damage your siding. and that's very different than living on park ave in sheboygan, wisconsin, where ice dams could cause water damage. but no matter what park you live on, one of 10,000 local allstate agents knows yours.

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is voting in a matter of hours. all but certain to elevate judge brett kavanaugh to the supreme court. the country is still bitterly divided tonight. joining me on the phone is liz swisher, she and kavanaugh were friends at yale. you wrote an op-ed in the west

along with your classmates charles luddington and lynn brooks titled "we were brett kavanau kavanaugh's drinking buddies and we don't think he should be confirmed." you said we each asserted that brett lied to the senate by stating under oath that he never drank to the point of forgetting what he was doing. we said unequivocally that each of us on numerous occasions had seen brett stumbling drunk to the point it would be impossible for him to state with any degree of certainty that he remembered everything that he did when drunk." so his confirmation looks likely. lou are you feeling about today's developments? >> well, frankly, i'm grieving. i'm grieving on many counts. i'm grieving for the loss of truth and justice in our system. for the undermining of the supreme court process. and also for the women who bravely came forward and you know had their stories basically

thrown away. >> do you feel like people listened to you and your former classmates? >> i think -- i think people did listen to me, but i guess don't think it was enough because i think politics trumped truth and justice. so that's what i find so depressing because if we can surprise the supreme court just to the political beliefs and not believe that we need somebody in the court who is honorable, tells the truth, and is nonpartisan, then we have no check and balance in our system of government. >> did you watch susan collins? >> i did not. i was at work but i read her statement. >> what did you think? >> well, i obviously don't agree with it. so it's not clear to me that she was really on the fence. it seems like that was a very

well prepared long statement that would have required quite a bit of work ahead of time. you know, i question did she really have an open mind in the last couple days. >> yeah, if she was actually undecideded. you mentioned the reasons why you don't think that brett kavanaugh should be on the supreme court. you talked about his temperament. he explained what he was emotional, why he shouted about the nomination being a political hit job, that he was speaking as a son, husband and dad. what did you think of his testimony? >> i didn't like it. he came out with a prepared statement. he wasn't being pushed by the senators and then he snapped or broke. he came out with a prepared statement that was obviously auditioning straight to president trump. with partisan rancor, claiming that these brave women who came forward were part of a clinton

conspiracy, that really undermines their stories. you know, these women had nothing to gain. they were not paid. they were not -- they had no political gain from there. and so to sort of create that circus around it is demeaning to the women that he really should be apologizing to. >> both christine blasey ford and deborah ramirez have several witness who's they say have relevant information but the fbi didn't interview them, didn't contact them. do you believe there was a thorough investigation done? >> no, it was not a thorough investigation. i don't think anybody believes that was a thorough investigation. >> uh-huh. since you and your former classmates came forward, you've gotten hate mail, threats of violence. your entire lives have been turned upside down. one of you even had the server hacked at your place of employment. do you regret going public now? >> no, i don't because i think

if, when push came to shove, even though it maybe didn't make a difference with the confirmation, if i had sat on the sidelines i would have always regretted that. i would would have always regretted not speaking my mind. i believe it was my duty, my daughters are proud of me. you know, i think it's the example that i want to set for my own daughters and you know, how i want to live my life going forward. i want to speak truth. so i would do it again. >> lis swisher, thank you so much. >> thank you, don. to a lot of the women, judge kavanaugh's confirmation is about much more than the court. will this ultimately be a watershed moment for the women of the united states?

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click, call or visit a store today. anger over brett kavanaugh's nomination spreading across the country. protesters even drowning out senator joe manchin today as he tried to explain his yes vote on judge kavanaugh. >> i made my decision and i gave my reasons for our decision. i wanted to make sure. >> you can listen to the people here. >> i'm very much concerned with the sexual abuse that people had to endure and very much concerned that we have to do something as a country. i had to deal with the facts i had in front of me. >> here to discuss, hillary rosen, tara set meyer, alice stewart, and lane nan plot from the atlantic. thank you all for joining this evening. i'm so happy to have you on to get your perspective as women because this is an important

story for the country but especially for women. tara, take a listen to what is christine blasey ford said in her testimony about coming forward. >> once he was selected and it seemed like he was popular and it was a sure vote, i was calculating daily the risk/benefit for me of coming forward and wondering whether i would just be jumping in front of a train that was headed to where it was headed anyway. and that i would just be personally annihilated. >> tara, is that exactly what happened here. >> exactly what happened. and if anyone wonders why survivors or victims of sexual assault or abuse do not come forward, this is exhibit a. i wrote about there@cnn.com. this woman was ridiculed. she was mocked by the president of the united states with a bunch of people clapping behind him, laughing along at this. and that was a microcosm of what

many women in this country felt like as survivors. and when those women approached jeff flake in that elevator and said look at me, senator, tell me that my assault didn't matter, that, at least he had some conscience to try to do something. but you know what? the way the republicans handled this, the way the president handled it this the way the white house handled this, the way the senate judiciary members handled this, it said that women who go through this it doesn't matter. well, yes, we believe you. we just don't believe you enough if it gets in the way of someone elevated into power. and that is a horrible message to send to women. and it personally pains me to the point where i've had to rethink whether i'm going to continue to register as a republican. >> alice, a lot of conservative women like at the trump rally where he mocked ford, for example, we talked about it earlier this week.

they inspired kavanaugh and didn't support ford. what are the main reasons? >> quite a few. i think senator collins did a great job today of explaining that. first and foremost, she said the me, too era is real, it matters and it's long overdue. it's something that it's a good thing out of all this we've started this conversation. as far as dr. ford versus judge kavanaugh, look, it is no doubt that dr. ford suffered something many years ago a sexual assault and has traumatic consequences from that and has been living with that for more than three decades. but i like many others including senator collins and those that voed to move this vote forward do not believe this was at the hands of judge kavanaugh. there are many reasons for that. more than anything is the fact that there home run some details that were left out and as far as the corroborating witnesses and anyone to back up the allegations, they weren't there. in this country, while we need

to hear women who are victims of sexual assault, we also have to believe in the presumption of innocence and with all of the information we had before us, it is critical that we make sure and look, not just be driven by emotion but also by the facts at hand and the other evidence that we have and judge kavanaugh with his life of integrity and character, that went a long way to myself and many others standing behind him. >> it wasn't a court of law. it wasn't a court of law. >> four people have to get in. be be mindful of that. both tara and hillary were shaking their heads 37 it kept going through my mind as you saw this today, alice is explaining how the other side feels, as i heard slugs people on the democratic side, people will say they're trying to have it both ways. is that what's going on here? >> they're sort of giving lip service to respecting dr. ford but if they respected dr. ford what they would have done was

actually have a legitimate fbi investigation where they actually interviewed witness who's could corroborate more extemporaneously the experience she had. look, i don't know how many times we have to go through there. if susan collins really wanted to express her concern for you know, survivors of sexual assault, that's what she would have done, she would have said a full and thorough investigation. we did not have that. the fact is, sexual assault does not have witnesses. people know what they're doing and for the most part, what they have are people who have been told at various points in their lives, all trauma experts say there are many pockets of things that people forget about. i think what weep want to do is figure out how this standard holds up in our government. right? we have seen the private sector

take ahold of this. we have seen the similar kinds of situations where they do have corroboration from friends and family take their word for it. the government has been unresponsive. susan collins jumped on al franken and said get out of the senate. for putting his hand on a woman's ass. this is just outrageous. >> or the picture of him in front of -- >> i was for al franken to resign, too. >> you're talking about the double standard. >> this notion that this was a respect of dr. ford is nonsense. i think what we have to do is it seems like the only way politicians are going to be accountable is not through their conscience. it's through party and elections. that's a shameful place to be in this country. >> elena, how do you feel about this? what do you think? >> don, one bit of news i broke earlier there week was senator lisa murkowski on wednesday in a lunch with some of her republican colleagues stood up

at one point and said she could no longer tolerate sort of the optics of a bunch of old white men shuttling through this nomination ramming it through at the time they were even considering doing just that before the fbi report had even dropped. i think based on my reporting that was the tipping point for her. that coupled with the mocking of dr. ford especially from president trump at his rally sort of led murkowski to conclude you know, set aside kavanaugh for a moment. the way that my party has reacted to the allegations made against him kind of the farce and circus his nomination has become is enough of a reason not to taint the judicial process by advancing his nomination to the floor. so that is one i guess you could say she's an abtar for one side of the thought among republican women right now. collins is an interesting counterpart. collins is someone who is saying you know, if you're to believe everything she said on the senate floor today, i hear you.

i hear that this me, too movement is a conversation that is long overdue. however, i don't think that an individual one man should be forced to shoulder the burden of that movement. and ultimately she concluded that those facts just weren't there. i do think when you're trying to as a reporter, when i'm trying to analyze what's going to happen in midterms, what turnout look likes among white suburban women for the party, those are the two different ideologies that i think are worth tracking. >> here's the thing. when we talk about these issues when it comes to women and misogyny and racism and bigotry, all of these things we say there's got to be a conversation. after awhile, you get tired of talking. and you want some action. and i haven't seen any action on any of these. i just hear a lot of people talking and a lot of people trying to get re-elected. you mentioned old white men. i'm just being honest here.

chuck grassley's comments today about women not being on the judiciary committee made jaws drop all over the country. i'll play them. we'll talk about it after the break. happy anniversary dinner, darlin'. can this much love be cleaned by a little bit of dawn ultra? oh yeah one bottle has the grease cleaning power of three bottles of this other liquid. a drop of dawn and grease is gone. since you're heading off to dad... i just got a zerowater. but we've always used brita. it's two stage-filter... doesn't compare to zerowater's 5-stage.

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and we're back. hillary's here, tara, alice and ele elena. tara, chuck grassley was asked tonight about the lack of republican women on his committee. his response is that they tried to recruit women but haven't been able to and then when he was asked why, he said well, it's a lot of work. don't forget compared to a lot of committee meetings we have an executive meeting every thursday. so it's a lot of work.

maybe they don't want to do it. apparently though, he tried to clarify that it's hard work for men and women, but i don't know. what do you think he was trying to get at here? >> you know, you just couple this with the comments and just the righteous indignation all week long about brett kavanaugh and you know, mitch mcconnell talking about a female assistant when they hired the prosecutor. it's just -- these men are out of touch. they come from a different era. it's sexism flat out. the way they approached the whole christine ford testimony, the fact that they -- she came across more as a new sans and they were so upset about poor brett kavanaugh. okay, it was a rough time for him. it was also a rough time for christine ford. and i'm sick and tired of these

men acting like you know, their lives are so much more important because they're somehow destined to reach these great heights like the supreme court and these nagging women with their sexual abuse problems, why don't they come out earlier. that attitude is awful. it sends a terrible message. >> as much as we talk about this, there was -- it was a woman though, it was a woman though who was the deciding factor. >> she decided to put party over principle here. she was being -- this is why our founding fathers worried about parties. you have to stand up sometimes. >> let alice respond. >> there were 51 people that voted to move this vote forward. she happened to be the one that was very vocal towards the end. the reality is, we got to the this situation where there was such overwhelming public support across the country, they may be silent but threw are the silent majority, not the elevator will be screamers here in washington.

these are people that went to their members of the senate and expressed their concern because what happened is the democrats took what was a serious issue of sexual assault and turned that into a smear complain where we're talking about devil's triangle and talking about alleged gang rapes of someone of tremendous integrity. they took it way too far. they took it way to the extreme. we got off the initial issue which is talking about the jurisprudence of judge kavanaugh and allegations of sexual assault where people across this country say that is too far. that is too much. that is why there was such overwhelming support for judge kavanaugh. >> you know, this is not going back. and people ought to be ready for this because if what you're saying is we don't want to have to be subject to you know our history, our personal history every time we make a nomination to keep in power, guess what, that day is gone. one of the things that this

effort has done is it sort of created this massive coming out. and i kind of liken it to sort of the gay rights movement in many ways which is once so many people came out, all of a sudden, claiming the very thing that held in their shame all of a sudden, people changed. and culture changed. that is what we're seeing here with there times up, me, too movement. now that people are coming out, they're not going to be go back or be silent. every single person will be held accountable to a standard. susan collins put herself in this position. she wasn't a victim, she wasn't the 51st person. she was elected as a pro-choice independent minded woman soliciting support for just that reason. sley asked for this. anton dismiss these survivors as sort of will be screamers, that is not going to end. these senators do not know what is about to hit them. >> elena. >> i think the flipside of that is, of course, the opposing side fights back that much harder.

listen, the reality is that we operate within a system here in washington of political inseptembertives. i think what you're going to see tomorrow when judge kavanaugh is confirmed is the next supreme court justice of the united states is a confirmation of mitch mcconnell's legacy. he's been an incredibly shrewd tactician these last three years. when he was majority leader in 2015, he said i want to reverse obama's judicial legacy, i want to reverse harry reid's remarkable success at judicial confirmations. he's done just that. i do think there will be an outpouring of more and more survivors is telling their stories. i think the flipside of that we have to keep in mind is more and more, whether they're republicans, democrats, politics is not really the point. the incentive structure is about winning at the end of the day. ultimately that could supplant principle. whatever the benefits of more people having their voices heard, there could be incredibly

negative consequences of that, as well in terms of the backlash being greater than ever. >> i wonder, it's been a year since all of there. i have literally 20 seconds left. harvey weinstein and anon and on. how much progress has been made. >> it is a constant conversation. the culture has changed. this is about changing the futuring. > thank you all. i wish we had more time. this is a fascinating conversation. thanks. have a good weekend. >> you, too. >> next i want to talk about the guilty verdict in the trial of a white police officer who shot and killed a black chicago teenager and how that verdict sends a message to people who wonder whether justice will be hard to come by in the future. my mom washes the dishes...

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we are now just hours away from the senate vote that will likely confirm judge brett kavanaugh to the supreme court, making the court solidly conservative possibly for decades to come. tonight millions of americans are legitimately concerned about his ability to be an impartial jurist on the highest court in the land. here is why. >> this whole two-week effort has been a calculated and orchestrated political hit fueled with an apparent pent up anger about president trump and the 2016 election, fear that has been unfairly stoked about my judicial record. revenge on behalf of the clintons, and millions of dollars in money from left wing opposition groups. >> shortly after senator susan collins and joe manchin said they would vote to confirm kavanaugh, an ominous tweet from

a long time republican strategist, steve schmidt, a senior advisor to john mccain's campaign in 2008. it is important to note schmidt left the republican party earlier this year to protest president trump's policies. nonetheless, here's what he tweeted. he said the price of brett kavanaugh's ascension to the you have it will shatter the integrity of the court and eviscerate standards of expectations for years to come. and then there's former justice john paul stevens saying he initially supported kavanaugh's nomination but then -- >> i've changed my views for reasons that really have no relationship to his intellectual ability or his record as a

federal judge. i think that his performance during the hearings caused me to change my mind. >> even senator jeff flake, the arizona republican who last friday forced the white house to order the fbi to investigate christine blasey ford's allegations said this on tuesday. >> the interaction with the members was sharp and partisan, that concerns me. and i tell myself you give a little leeway because of what he's been through. but on the other hand, we can't have this on the court. we simply can't. >> well, it's about to happen. senator flake's ignoring his own words. he's voting to confirm. last night judge kavanaugh wrote an op-ed in the wall street journal, a last ditch attempt to save his nomination. he admitted his tone was sharp, at least in last week's hearing. and he said that he said things he shouldn't have. he claims he's an independent

and partial judge writing this. he says i revere the constitution. i believe an independent and impartial judiciary is essential to our constitutional republic. if confirmed by the senate to serve on had supreme court i will keep an open mind in every case and always strive to preserve the constitution of the united states and the american rule of law. if he is confirmed tomorrow, it is up to him to prove those words, to make them true, to prove them true. senator collins kind of issued a challenge to him, maybe more of a plea, and she announced her support. >> my fervent hope is that brett kavanaugh will work to lessen the divisions in the supreme court so that we have far fewer 5-4 decisions. and so that public confidence in our judiciary and our highest court is restored. >> what happened with judge

kavanaugh makes a lot of people question whether fairness and justice will be harder to come by in the future, but justice was done elsewhere in america today. and maybe americans can take heart that there are signs of progress. a racially charged case was decided in chicago. police officer jason van dyke found guilty of second degree murder in the shooting death of luquan mcdonald, a black teenager that happened four years ago. the incident was caught on tape and jurors were found the video. van dyke claimed the video didn't tell the whole story, but jurors didn't buy it. it's not often police are convicted in controversial cases such as this one. when the victim is a black man or woman and the killer is a white police officer. but today 12 jurors, only one of them black did convict. and the family of luquan

mcdonald had a message after the verdict. >> i'm saying to you chicago and america, let us begin to heal, but let us not heal and become docile. let us heal and become motivated and activated. >> a good message for chicago and america. we'll be right back. you see clear skin. cosentyx can help people with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis find clear skin that can last. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms, if your inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. serious allergic reactions may occur. how sexy are these elbows? ask your dermatologist about cosentyx. ask your dermatologist if these packs have the same number of bladder leak pads, i bet you think bigger is better. actually, it's bulkier. always discreet quickly turns liquid to gel, for drier protection that's a lot less bulky.

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cnnheroes.com. thanks for watching. our coverage continues. good evening. we begin with perhaps the final dramatic moment in brett kavanaugh's saga which has seen plenty of drama already. republican lisa murkowski gavivg a speech on the supreme court floor. she spoke about what survivors of sexual abuse go through, precedent, cases important to her own constituents and the country. she talked about healing. here's the moment why she voted no today. >> so it is high, and even in the face -- even in the face of the worst thing that could happen, a sexual assault allegation. even in the face of an overly and