why three weeks before a consequential giant election critical to the rebuilding of the democratic party. >> you are a central figure. she is on the air in a lot of senate races. >> that's part of the two. thanks for joining us inside politics. wolf starts right now. have a great day. hello, i'm wolf blitzer and it's 1:00 here in washington. thank you very much for joininguts. we start with president trump in florida learning more about the devastation from hurricane michael. the death toll now stands at 18. some remote areas are cutoff. they are getting aid dropped in by air. others are waiting in lines for water and food. the worst of the damage is in mexico beach, florida. there are still at least 30 people missing. after homes and businesses were smashed and swept away during the storm. let's go to the chief white

house correspondent and before leaving the white house for florida, the president had plenty to say about saudi arabia and the disappearance of the "washington post" contributor, jamal khashoggi. take us through that. >> reporter: that's right, wolf. the president answering questions on his way down to florida and georgia to take a look at the storm damage down there. he did tell reporters he spoke with the saudi king, king solomon about the disappearance of jamal khashoggi. the president appears to be accepting the conclusion coming from the saudi government that they are not responsible for the disappearance or death of the "washington post" columnist. the president at one point told reporters that from what he is hearing at this point, it may have been what he called rogue killer who is killed jamal khashoggi. here's what the president had to say. >> i just spoke with the king of saudi arabia who denies any knowledge of what took place

with regard to as he said his saudi arabian citizen. it sounded to me like maybe these could have been rogue killers. who knows. we are going to try getting to the bottom of it very soon. his was a flat denial. >> of course, wolf, this comment from the president raises all sorts of questions and raising comparisons to the president when he said it could have been a 400 pound person hacking into the 2016 election. but putting that aside, there are going to be questions raised obviously about what the president is saying here if he is accepting the saudi conclusion or suggestion that rogue killers are responsible for the death or disappearance of jamal khashoggi. that obviously raises the question, how could rogue killers get into a saudi consulate in turkey? that probably is not going to add up to a lot of people. the president accepting this conclusion here from the saudi government from the saudi king is just not going to sit well with a lot of people here in

washington, wolf. >> i saw the tweet he posted earlier and spoke to the king who denies any knowledge of whatever may have happened to our saudi arabian citizen. he said they are working closely with turk tow find an answer. i am immediately sending our secretary of state to meet with the king. mike pompeo is on his way to saudi arabia right now. maybe other countries as part of the u.s. investigation? >> that's right. that is happening at a time when a lot of people are dropping out of this investment conference set up for later this month, including cnn. others have dropped out and it sounds as though the president is interested in having motorcycle pompeo pressing saudi officials on this, but it's interesting that they would come out typically as you know at the white house and they provide written read outs to the press and what occurs between the president and head of state when they have a conversation on the phone. the president appears to have given his own read out and saying he talked to the saudi

king and is accepting their conclusion that they were not responsible for the death of jamal khashoggi. one other thing is that saudi state media is putting out a story at this point saying that the president during that phone call praised what is being referred to as joint cooperation between the saudis and turkish officials looking into the death or disappearance of jamal khashoggi. when the president of the united states is saying something along the lines of there are rogue killers who may have been responsible for this, that's not the end of the conversation. there are a lot of people here in washington and at "the washington post" who will be asking tough questions about what happened to jamal khashoggi. this doesn't sound like nearly the end of it whatsoever. >> it's an important point. jim acosta, thank you very much. it's been nearly two weeks since jamal khashoggi vanished. after walking into the saudi consulate in istanbul, turkey. we are starting to see the first signs of progress. a turkish team of investigators

just entered the consulate. let's go to clarissa ward joining us from turkey right now. where do things stand in the joint saudi turkish investigation? >> reporter: certainly it's fair to say that that there appears to be momentum to the joint workforce. the turks have been trying to get into the saudi consulate for over a week. the saudis said okay, they can go in and they appeared to change their mind. now this evening finally we are seeing turkish authorities entering the consulate. we know there are teams from the prosecutors office and forensics teams. we don't know how much access. will they have unfettered access and be able to go through every room? how much forensic material might they be able to aggregate nearly two weeks after this alleged murder took place? still a lot of questions as to where the turkish investigation

goes, but the fact that we see the investigators on the scene and we have seen a let up in the number of leaks coming out of the turkish intelligence and security forces does lead one to believe it appears there is better cooperation between saudi and turkey and potentially now facilitated as jim was saying, by the u.s., wolf? >> clarissa ward on the scene. thank you very much. cnn political analyst and white house reporter for the "new york times," julia hirsch felled davis. cnn global affairs analyst, aaron david miller. the president is now mentioning that it could have been rogue killers. >> i think it's obvious that we are looking through a politically convenient way out of this to remove immediate political pressure. the administration would love to have this thing go away. but the reality is, it's not. if in fact the turks have audio and video of this, we ought to demand they turn it over to us.

we have to impose a measure of accountability, wolf. not just because an ally can't go around murdering journalists, but this is the tail end of a series of actions that mohamed and saudis have taken. yemen and qatar and complete with hostage video of the lebanese prime minister and a degree of oppression at home that led people to believe that mbs is a reformer. he's is an authoritarian who might be capable of reform as long as it doesn't come at the expense of the openness. >> he is the crown prince the saudi arabia. 33 years old. the president seems to be very, very anxious to accept the strong denial he said from king solomon. >> that's what we are hearing in his rhetoric here. he is saying he doesn't know what happened and we have to get to the bottom of it, but the

strong presumption of suggesting rogue killers is he believes their denials. we heard it before where putin denied they interfered in the election. our investigations say it definitely happened and the president said putin denied it. he had a phone call with the king and both of them have gotten strong denials. he is clinging to that. it's politically convenient for him to do so in the absence of other evidence. they are really pressing for the intelligence that can tell them what happened. if so, what he will do as a result. congress might step in here and that's another thing i think the white house is trying to tamp down on and hope to avoid. even if the president doesn't decide to act here, congress could make it mandated. depending on what the evidence is. >> deep anger on capitol hill.

this trip to saudi arabia right now, what is that going to achieve? >> the reality is, if the king of saudi arabia basically tells the president of the united states, these are the two principals that governed this relationship for the last 70 years. the presidents and saudi kings. if the saudi king said we didn't do it, we have no knowledge of this, what do we expect the king to say to mike pompeo. maybe pompeo can have a conversation with mohamed, but frankly i don't see that happening. this is political convenience over principal and i would even argue, forget principal. it's over the pursuit of national interests. we allowed a special relationship with our close saudi friends to turn into an exclusive one. that is not good for american values. >> the president makes it clear repeatedly. there is not going to be any cutoff of arm sales to saudi arabia. >> julie makes an excellent

point. this has gone beyond presidents and kings. you have congress and the media and the private sector involved. disdain of this. if it proves to be true, the horrific nature of what happened inside that consulate is validated and verified. the u.s.-saudi relationship is not going to recover from this. that's somethinging that the trump administration is going to have to live with. >> you're right. the president has almost gone so far as to say even if they did have evidence this happened or they did conclude that the saudis were to blame for whatever did happen to jamal, he in fact would not think it was in the best interest to cutoff this relationship because of the jobs and because of the potential for this money to come into the u.s. and that is essentially more important than the statement that we are going to stand against violation of human rights and the judicial killings or renditions. whatever may have happened here,

he made it clear that the primacy of the business relationship essentially is what he cares about. >> neither of us are arguing for the abandoning the relationship, but it needs to be recalilated and reciprocity fuel-injected into it. the most significant thing the saudis have achieved is the bam boozeling of the trump administration. >> do you think the crown prince is the real power there now? >> i do. he eliminated every power center except maybe one. the most important one. his father is still the king of saudi arabia. we have not seen the internal reverberations of what may result, assuming pressures apply. >> i suspect the saudis are pleased with the response they heard from the president following his phone conversation with the king. >> they are pleased and they understand there are risks here. congress does have a role here

and their markets are plunging given the situation here and some of their washington, d.c.-based lobbyists have quit on them. this is going to be a reputational problem for them and we don't know the full extent of what happened. certainly they are pleased they have the president on their side. the big object of this visit by mike pompeo is for them to keep the united states in the full. the white house in the fold. it's unclear how long it can hold. >> see if steve mnuchin goes to the conference in saudi arabia in the coming days. >> he says he will. >> we will see what happens. thank you very much. elizabeth warren releases a dna test result that prove her native american heritage. you will hear how the president responded. president trump refuses to pledge that he won't interfere in the russia investigation. this is his lawyers prepare answers to robert mueller's questions.

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it used to be president trump's million dollar question, but now that senator elizabeth warren proved her native american ancestry, here's what the president has to say. >> no, i have no -- who cares. >> who cares. senator warren faced scrutiny over her heritage, especially from hump himself, mocking her on so many occasions with the nickname pocahontas. >> did you ever hear of pocahontas? huh? it's pocahontas elizabeth

warren. pocahontas is not happy. she is not happy. she's the worst. >> pocahontas. is that what you said. elizabeth warren? >> now senator warren is hoping her results will put the argument to rest. back with us, julie hirschfield davis and david. what do you make of the timing of her release of this dna test. >> make no bones about it, the race for the nomination has begun. that is what this is about. this is elizabeth warren who uls is on the ballot for reelection in the state of massachusetts is indeed trying to clear the decks of one of her big vulnerabilities and doing it by trying to go on offense. this five-minute produced video that goes out with this. the dna test results themselves. she knows that one of the most identifying characteristics about her is the president's attack on her.

this is a real effort to try to push back. i don't think it will put it to rest, are inially in terms of the president giving up and going after her, but i think this is a real attempt before the presidential race to clear the decks on this issue. >> remember he said he would donate a million dollars to a charity of her choice if she took the dna test and today he was asked about that. listen to what he said. >> who cares. >> you would you would pay $1 million to charity. >> i didn't say that. you need to read it again. >> we looked at the tape. watch this. >> i will give you a million dollar s to your favorite charity paid for by trump and you take the test and it shows you are an indian. >> has he transferred the funds? >> he was not going to be paying it. he probably thinks he can get out on a technicality of

language here. i truly doubt president trump is just going to give up using this line of attack, but clearly elizabeth warren believe this is works to beat back not only what she sees as the smear itself, but to take on the president. for her base is something they want to see her do. this is an opportunity for her to do so, naming a charity he can donate to, even though she knows no money is coming. >> how awkward is this for the president? >> the president enjoys this back and forth, tit for tat. he hits and somebody hits back at him. you think back to his -- what mode him prominent, the birther claim about barack obama. i want to see the birth certificate and lo and behold they released the long ferm birth certificate. elizabeth warren said i will meet you and accusing me of having misrepresented my heritage. here's the proof. for both of them, it works for

their base. i think david is right. he will not stop calling her pocahontas and pushing this racially tirchlged attack on her and she is going to answer back. it is not clear why now is the right time in her mind and the minds of her advisers. democrats are so focused on the mid-terms and trying to take advantage of a bad environment for republicans to try to take back the house and take back the senate. this diverts the focus to 2020 and what democrats may be waiting in the wings ready to step up and challenge trump in 2020. i wonder how that's going to affect the last few weeks of the race. >> my sense is it's to having something to point to as we are on the other side of the mid-terms to try to say asked and answered. we put out the results and have the video. rather than try to dominate conversation, it's sort of getting it in while the

presidential contest is not white hot and be able to point back. >> the democratic presidential contest has begun. up next, president trump fuels speculation over the face of his defense secretary, calling james mattis, sort of a democrat. as we march towards the mid-terms, hillary clinton offered a surprising take on her husband's affair with monica lewinsky. looking good! at booking.com, we can't guarantee you'll good at that water jet thingy... but we can guarantee the best price on this hotel. or any accommodation, from homes to yurts. booking.com booking.yeah

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speculation now surrounding the immediate future of the defense secretary, james mattis, following these comments on 60 minutes last night. >> is it true general mattis said to you, the reason for nato and the reason for all these a lineses is to prevent world war 3? >> no, it's not true. frankly, i like general mattis. i know more about it than he does. >> sorry he going to leave? >> i don't know. he hasn't told me. i have a good relationship with him. it could be that he is. i think he is sort of a democrat, if you want to know the truth. general mattis is a good guy. we get along very well. he may leave. at some point, everybody leaves. everybody. people leave. that's washington. >> barbara, you there at the

department of defense. what are you hearing from your sources about the comments by the president. sounds like pretty sharp criticism. and now maybe he's a democrat. secretary mattis's partisan leanings. why is the president appearing to sour on him. they have disagreed in the past. mattis is very careful to be very loyal in public. the question now is what will happen. will the president find it easier to replace secretary mattis after a mid-term election, assuming as everyone expects, the republicans keep control of the senate. they would have to confirm a new secretary of defense. what would it take for jim mattis to leave? i can tell you, everyone who

knows him will tell you he will not quit. he is here to serve the troops. he feels very passionately on that particular point. he is not going to walk away. he would make the administration fire him. that's the consensus around here. that may be a very tough point for mr. trump to undertake because after two years of saying that mattis is the best, how do you turn around and fire the defense secretary that you claim has been the best one ever? >> and he suggests that he knows more. the president knows more about nato, for example, than the sufficiency secretary. a-star retired general knows about nato who served with nato commanders. >> right. perhaps not. i think there might be a number of people that disagree with the president of the united states. the president keeps making the point that he has been responsible for other countries paying up, if you will, to what

they owe nato. that's not accurate. countries are required under nato. they are strongly suggested to spend a certain percentage of their annual national budgets on defense. they don't pay into nato. that's a very small administrative amount. they pay through their defense spending in their own nations. that is something secretary mattis is critically aware of. >> barbara, thank you very much. controversial words from the president as the trump legal teamworks to answer questions submitted by robert mueller's legal team. the president refuses to pledge he won't get involved himself or shut down the probe all together. democrats race to remove and a new poll reveals that voters see joe biden leading the charge.

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no guarantee on letting the mueller investigation play out even as attorneys work on written answers to the special counsel's questions, president trump is refusing to pledge that he won't interfere with or even shut down the russia investigation. watch this. >> will you pledge, pledge that you will not shut down the mueller investigation? >> well, i don't pledge anything, but i have no intention of doing that. i think it's a very unfair

investigation. there was no collusion of any kind. >> but you won't pledge? >> why should i pledge to you. if i pledge, i will pledge. i don't have to pledge to you. do you think i would call russia to help me with an election. they wouldn't be able to help me at all. call russia. so ridiculous. >> california congressman eric swal well is a democrat and a member of the house and judiciary committee. his refusal to deliver that pledge. what did you think? >> i didn't hear an innocent man. i heard somebody who has been unwilling to sit down with bob mueller who has continued tob instruct and tamper with witnesses in the way he dangled pardons and the way he talked about the investigation while jurors have deliberated. he could wind it up by sit think down with bob mueller and that's not what he wants to do. >> he is only answering written

fez for all practical purposes. after he took office, and allegations of obstruction, he is not answering questions on that. >> that's very telling. that's clear whether it was his nbc interview with lester holt and he admitted to why he tired every day against jeff sessions. he has committed obstructions. bob mueller has a job to do and a new jng will conduct investigations that have not been looked into that looked into. >> the majority of the new congress. we have three weeks to go. >> the president was asked also about his relationship with various world leaders. specifically, vladimir putin and kim jong un. listen to this exchange. >> why do you love that guy?

>> look, look. i get along with him, okay? >> you love him. it's like an embrace. >> let it be an embrace. >> he's a bad guy. >> let it be whatever it is. i get along with him very well. i have a good energy and chemistry with him. >> do you agree that vladimir putin is involved in assassinations, in poisonings. >> probably he is. i don't know. i rely on them. it's not in our country. >> why not they shouldn't do this and this is a terrible thing. >> of course they shouldn't do it. >> he makes a point that it didn't happen on u.s. soil. >> the u.s. is at its most orderly when we are the moral beacon. over the last two years nj the north korean leader having a relative kill and vladimir

putin's forces conduct a killing and the saudis allegedly conducting the killing in turkey. it's an operating environment that the countries see they have because there is no moral authority in the world. that is very concerning and i think more will come unless the united states asserts itself and starts to step up. >> very quickly on thes a d peerns of the saudi journalist, jamal khashoggi. the president said it could have been rogue killers. >> again, it could have been china or a guy on his couch in new jersey. that's it is how he talked about russia's interference campaign. he a debtly is able to divert attention whenever one of his ally or himself is accused. the i think the president should give the saudis a 24-hour deadline to produce this journalist or put in place very steep sanctions. >> let's talk politics. look at the new cnn poll of democratic candidates.

choice for democratic presidential nominee. joe biden, the former vice president. it goes down to bernie sanders, kamala harris, elizabeth warren, cory booker and john kerry. these two front runners on the democratic side are 75 and 77 years old. what do you say? >> it's an exciting field and you will see a lot of talent displayed. it may break down generationally. voters will have a choice and do they want to go backward or forward? democrats are the best nominees and have always been when we go forward. barack obama, president clinton, jimmy carter, jfk. we do best when we look forward. that's where the primary field is. >> what did you think of elizabeth warren releasing her dna test? >> it's unfortunate that he had to do that. there was no evidence she was

not native american, but i'm glad she stood up and will not be bullied by the president. facts don't matter it him. he said he would give her a million dollars if she proved it. we will see that throughout this campaign. >> you did visiting of iowa earlier in the year. are you thinking about it? >> i am answering it. i want to get through the mid-terms. my wife is due in a couple of days with a baby girl. i want to get through a full term and think about the long-term, but i think new energy, new ideas and a new confidence in america is needed the. that's why i'm considering it. >> iowa and new hampshire and all the cool places. >> did hillary clinton give republicans a political boost with weeks to go until the mid-terms? right now in istanbul, a team of investigators is in the consulate looking at live pictures. they are looking for answers around the disappearance of the journalist, jamal khashoggi. billions of mouths.

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homelessness. gavin newsom, it happened on your watch. so, yeah. it is time for a change. time for someone new. in a new interview, hillary clinton comes to the defense of her husband, bill clinton, over his affair with then white house intern, monica lewinsky, while he was president of the united states. hillary clinton said she doesn't consider the affair an abuse of power. >> in retrospect, do you think bill should have resigned in the wake of the monica lewinsky scandal. >> absolutely not. >> it wasn't an abuse of power. >> no, no. >> there are people who look at the incidents of the 90s and say a president of the united states cannot have a consensual relationship with an intern.

the power imbalance -- >> who was an adult. where is the investigation of the current incumbent? >> "new york times" is back with us and legal analyst and civil rights attorney, reva martin. what do you think of her answer in this me too era. >> i think she is right. what happened between bill clinton and monica lewinsky was not sexual assault, but where i disagree slightly with secretary clinton is the power issue. clearly there was an imbalance of power. we don't know if there was an abuse of power. from what i read from what monica lewinsky said, she said it was a consensual relationship between two daals. what is important to note, this is about women having access to equality in a workplace, being in workplaces that are safe. it doesn't mean women can't have consensual relationships in the workplace. anyone who is standing up for me too doesn't say we should do

away with women from having consensual relationships. power is important when you are talking about the president and an intern. >> hillary clinton is getting a lot of criticism for those remarks. monica lewinsky was a 22-year-old intern. legally she is an adult and it was consensual. she wanted this. he wanted it. the point being, he is president of the united states and she is a 22-year-old intern. >> no question. and so much of the me too movement and what we have seen emerge from the revelations that we learned about over the last couple of years or last year and a half is about women going back and reassessing things they have been involved in in relationships they were in and deciding while it may have seemed consensual at the time, it was something that was inappropriate and they felt taken advantage of. for cher to shut that down and saying it was an abuse of power, it was a striking thing for her to say. probably was at odds with what

so many women are who are reckoning with the me too movement. very much at odds with the democratic base is right now and where democrats as a party want to see the up surge around the elections. they think there is a real opportunity to capitalize around women being angry and the power dynamics and the power they think is wrong and the president represents and the brett kavanaugh confirmation battle represented to them and having a prominent democratic woman come forward and saying you can't look at this power dynamic and say this was inappropriate or that in retrospect it wasn't the right thing. that's at odds with what's going on in the grass roots. >> i don't think hillary clinton would deny there was an imbalance of power between the president and the intern. but one thing democrats stho shouldn't do is play into this

gop narrative that we should didi disavow what bill clinton did, but not talk about what donald trump is doing. and that's what hillary clinton did. we can talk about what bill clinton did in the 90s, but let's talk about what donald trump is going currently. all the women who have come forward and made accusations against him, we. don't see the same kind of movement happening in the republican base to cause donald trump to resign from office. we don't see gop senators coming forward to say that his conduct, which we now know has been pretty egregious leading up to his election to the presidency, that that should be disqualifying, for him, as president of the united states. so i think the democrats have to stay focused on what the issue is. and the issue is winning the midterm elections in 2018, winning the white house in 2020, and, you're not going to find a bigger advocate for the me too movement than i am. but i do think that we have to respect the difference between sexual assault and consensual relationships. we should talk about the imbalance of power, but we should absolutely distinguish between those relationships that are consensual and those that

are not. >> a lot of democrats are wondering, is hillary clinton, with three weeks to go in the midterms, an asset or a liability to fellow democrats? >> well, it's a good question. i think having her come forward in this context, it has a lot of democrats on edge. i don't think that they think that that's next the context in which they would like to see her. i notice that we don't see bill clinton out campaigning for democratic candidates. you know, there's a competitive race in arkansas. we don't see him being called upon to participate in that. and so i think for a lot of democrats, they want to be looking forward. they want to be presenting an alternative that's something different from donald trump and that's something different from hillary clinton, because, you know, to democrats, they need to see the energy they have now, in their minds, in order to try to take back one house of congress or both houses. >> yeah, julian and areva, thank you guys, very, very much. some important issues to discuss. coming up, president trump talks climate change, claiming it will change back again but may not be tied to human behavior.

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unstopand it's strengthenedting place, the by xfi pods,gateway. which plug in to extend the wifi even farther, past anything that stands in its way. ...well almost anything. leave no room behind with xfi pods. simple. easy. awesome. click or visit a retail store today. does the president of the united states believe in the validity of climate change? the past several years, he's tweeted out skepticism dozens of times, including this tweet, where he said, and i'm quoting now, the concept of global warming was created by and for the chinese in order to make u.s. manufacturinging non-competitive. but in an interview with "60

minutes" that aired last night, he expressed a different view. let's listen. >> i don't think it's a hoax. i think there's probably a difference, but i don't know that it's man-made. i'm not denying climate change. but it could have well go back. you know, we're talking about over -- >> well, that's denying it. >> we're talking about over millions of years. they say that we had hurricanes that are far worse than what we just had that. >> who says that? "they say." >> people say that. >> what about the scientists who say it's worse than ever? >> uh, you'd have to show me the scientists, because they have a very big political agenda. >> i can't bring them in. >> scientists also have a political agenda. >> those comments come as the acting epa administrator has added five new members to its air quality advisory panel, replacing the current members and also has eliminated two key environmental committees. our rene marsh has been working this story for us. rene, what could the impact of these changes really result in? >> well, we heard the president being pressed there about

climate change and how he can deny whether they contribute to those more severe storms, like what we saw in florida. and he says, show me the scientists. of course, he's saying all of this as his administration continues to dismiss scientists from agencies like the epa, as well as scientific advisory boards. just recently, cnn, we are reporting, that the epa released seven academic scientists on an advisory board that was set to advise the epa on air quality standards, while doing that in that same week, 20 scientists received dismissal e-mails. the epa nixed two other scientific panels. those panels were going to be looking at the health impacts of air pollution. so those are all very critical and oftentimes very independent panels, advising the epa on the best science out there, when they're creating their regulations, and how it will impact you and i. the air that we breathe. and so i just spoke with one of

the scientists who was dismissed, and he says, why does this matter? it matters because it gives the sense, at least in his eyes, that this administration is trying to take scientists away from the table. they are trying to get rid of scientists' input and replacing these panels with people who may be more industry friendly, and they're just -- they think it could be problematic if -- if -- we are seeing actions by this administration in which they are given more thought to the economics of these regulations as opposed to public health issues. but, again, those comments that you just heard there from the president, coming as we are continuing to see changes at the epa, including the dismissal of scientists on these very critical panels. >> we'll continue to, i'm sure the president will continue to be asked lots of questions about something that he once says was a chinese hoax, designed to get the u.s. to spend a lot of

money, uselessly, he would say, in order to help china. but now he's got a little different perspective. >> changing his tune, slightly. >> rene, thank you very much. >> sure. just ahead, we'll have more on senator elizabeth warren. the democrat strikes back, releases dna test results that prove her native american heritage. you're going to hear how the president responded. you are watching cnn on this monday afternoon. i'm brooke baldwin. good to be back. thanks for being with me. we do want to take you to the devastated florida panhandle, where president trump and first lady melania trump are getting their first look today at the deadly destruction left behind by category 4 hurricane michael. the trumps arrived just a couple of hours ago and are flying over the areas that have been just totally flooded out. there is such a desperate need to get food and water to survivors, many of whom