hey, i'm brian stelter. on this hour, the saudi diplo t diplomatic crisis deepens, we will talk about it, and as you have seen, president trump is p parodying fo ining fox news. and who better than karl burnstein to join us at the end of the hour to talk about how all of the stories connect. midterm misinformation, it was two years ago this month, i

remember hillary clinton against donald trump and i tried to sound an alarm as fake news, i was talking about these made up stories, i was not the only one sounding the alarm, a lots of reporters were. there was so his misinformation and unreliable source books, but between the day he was won and inaugurated he seized the term fake news. let me give you a look at the problem. twitter trolled, spreading lies about jamal and his kidding, and making it look like the crowned

brins was a hero. this voters have been making smears for the whats up app. facebook, twitter, and other sites are trying to stamp out fake stories but this is an uphill battle. on friday a russian national was charged with a conspiracy to defraud the united states. they are continuing to see foreign actors use social media to influence americans. this is a pro trump facebook page that i showed two years ago if is twice as popular now and it is still posting completely fake content.

for example, a quote they put up the other day, a meme that was attributed to george h.w. bush didn't say, it was a lie. this is hyper partisan content made to go viral. to what is being done. we have been talking about this for two years in this new age of information warfare. facebook is bringing reporter into this war room. it is a war room designed to protect the elections, designed to monitor misinformation and election meddling and try to catch faoreign actors before thy do it again. facebook is trying to do the right thing, twit sere tter is

to do the right thing and win the pr, but are they doing enough. thank you for being here, what are you uncovered today that we didn't have back then. >> the bad actors, the trolls, got more sophisticated particularly in being able to mask where they're operating from. facebook will tell us that directly. they have gotten better not knowing they're working from russia. but i mean, facebook is trying a lot of resources. they're spending a lot of fumon, hiring in people, they say they're hiring thousands, and they're bringing in former

intenti intelligence officials to try to track this problem down. >> and this week what did you find? >> we found pages from banglade bangladesh, an elaborate scheme, that made it look like a women's march, so fake activism. >> yes, the russian actors are si ideological and trying to spread face news, this company was just trying to make money off of merchandise. there was activist, real women's march activist saying this march or ni organized for our city in january has the wrong day. they were reporting this repeatedly until facebook and it wasn't until we brought it to their attention that they really

focused on it. >> phillip, is this a game of whack a mole their playing and are they getting good enough at the game? >> absolutely, and i think the key indicator they're not getting good enough at the game is this week we had another indictment of a russian doing exactly what they did in 2016, but they are still doing itti effectively. people in saudi arabia was paying people that were just being paid to tweet all day. there is millions of moles to whack and not a way to catch them all. >> fact checker wills come to the rescue, but that is not the full answer to this problem,

right? facebook is now saying we need to use ore server and our machine learning to catch this misinformation. >> this is difficult to solve. they frame is as an arms race. we're never really going to fully solve this problem. but here is a way they could, a rethinking of their facebook account. it is so easy for advertisers to target people with certain information. if they mad it harder for fake accounts to be created, it would change their unique monthly users, and that would devalue the company. so they're trying to solve a

problem that they will never really solve. >> our president is mr. misinformation. news outlets repeat what the president says and then they perpetuate lies. that is an example of fake news. i want to show an example. this is the president talking all week long about saudi arabia and the u.s. arms sales to saudi. he is giving a defense of the relationship. here is what he has been saying all week long. >> they have a tremendous order, $110 billion. >> i worked very hard to get the order for the military, $110 billion. >> it will be althouultimately billion. >> they're spending $110 billion. >> some news outlets put it in the headlines acting like it is true but the $110 billion figure is fanciful and unlikely to come

to fruition. this is a fundamental trproblem that we talk about for fake news and lies. >> it is a combination of someone that uses twitter regularly to share information, claims it is the truth, and it is totally indifferent to sharing accurate information. that $110 billion is really fascinating because he is using this to argue these are jobs for american. campaign messages, the jobs numbers are made up, 40,000, now up to over 1 million jobs. he just makes the you remembers up. you can't crack down on the

president for saying something that is not true. ultimately this media literacy issue, as much as they may or may not do, users, citizens, voters, we have to become more careful about sharing links and stories and believing what they see on social media. we have seen it become on news websites, everyone needs to be more mindful, if you see a tweet designed today provoke skbru yo a reaction, think before you post. >> the goal of these foreign actors is sowing division and

discord. i had no idea. thank you, a quick break here, and then another migrant caravan, and another explosion of coverage. i'm wondering if the coverage on the right, the fear mongering, is racially tinged. so i can lock in moisture... and keep us protected. we've got to have each other's backs... and fronts. cerave. what your skin craves. you don't always use your smartphone for directions... are we there yet? hey guys, up there. ...or to laugh out loud. ♪ but when it matters most, you count on tracfone to keep you connected for less. ♪ our smartphone plan gives you talk, text and data with unlimited carryover starting at $15 a month,

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now to the flicking of fear, how the press can calm fears or enflame fears. some of them want to seek asylum in the u.s. as the coverage ramped up, president trump started to hype partisan. >> two words are going to define the night of the 2018 election. one is kavanaugh, the other is caravan. >> an election of kavanaugh.

law and order, common sense. >> these are some of the banners. caravan crisis, burti bursting the border. how about trump scores fears to draw votes. he is talking about it nearly every day now. his comments have a conspirat conspiratorial edge to them. there are those that say that caravan didn't just happen. he says it is a lot, it is the democrats fault, it is nonesens, but it is very appeals nonsense to some voters. why i left the right, and

dara lin. these pictures are the cara van entering into mexico. how do you see them being weaponized right now. >> they're gripping, and more than that, the image of a mass of people moving through crossing bridges and rivers indicate that it feels like an invading force. and what a picture or a clip doesn't do is show you where it is, how far it might be from the u.s., so when people are talking about a border crisis, it makes it feel like a mass of human beings. the imagery over and over again of thousands of people surging forward in a sellment like this when you're playing clips alongside people talking, it making them feel like they be

under siege. >> it is being portrayed as a very aurgt threat, but it is happening very, very far away from the u.s. border, what do you expect to happen next? >> the mexican government made it clear they're going to try to stop this. they made it clear even before he really ramped up his rhetoric about it. but it appears they just don't have the power to stop thousands of people from coming through. so how it shakes out will really determine whether or not this is something where the president is saying great job mexico, we scared you, you did it, or if it is something we can continue to use. >> max, what are you seeing in the pro trump media coverage of this. how do you describe this? >> it is, brian, it is also i believe racism and nativism

pandering to the fears of viewers that are older white ma males that are alarmed by darker skinned people coming. there is not a massive army of illegal immigrants, and they're not illegal immigrants, they're refugees that are seeking asylum. this is something i wrote in the corrosion of conservatism. it was a conservative party with a right nationalist fringe. it has transformed into a white nationalist party with a conservative fringe.

guess what, they have a big t e time. >> what do you want to see the press doing differently they are saying what the think the point you were making earlier is true to some extent. it is easy for the voices of the fear mongering on the right, isn't this threatening? a lot of them are women and children. they're mainly people looking for work, for safety, trying to flee from oppression and crime, but just the pictures themselves when presented in isolation can give a very misleading impressi impression. >> let's put up the pictures from the bridge.

you can interpret them in ways. you can say that is an inspiring protest. an effort for them to gain attention for their cause. you can point out that it is a real problem. or you can say it is threatening. to your point, i think if we were able to zoom in more often and show images of the individuals or talk to the individuals or talk to the children -- >> i was watching a cnn report yesterday that i think did a good job talking to the people saying we're not criminals, we don't want anything but a job and peace. if you just present the long shot and show the mob, you can get away with that kind of fox news framing that they're somehow a threat to us. >> the president has been talking about this every day. he has been holding rallies every day. let's show our calendar of the rallies in october and there is three more coming up later this

month. he is owning the media environment. and when he is talking and talking and talking, he is talking in part about the caravan. is anyone out there in the olympics space countering him? >> not really, you can't compete with the power of the presidency, right? something about the power of the presidency that commands people's attention. trump seizes that, he accuragra as hard as he can. a couple hundred people came, they sought asylums. they were seeming refugee status and it vanished in the bank account. and he has done a gooding the focus on the present.

of course he is not going to do that. >> maybe he is creating confusi confusion. what are you doing to help people understand. >> while it faded from the media attention, the rage it profolked in. donald trump created a policy crack down. they were forced to wait in mexico for weeks before getting asylum. harassed when they were there, and the continued crack down that lead to family separation. so the policy side of this often operates after the political hypercycle but that is very important to draw the attention

back to. >> a wick programming note, a great stopic tonight. jake tapper will moderate at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. a very important message from jamal khashoggi's editor, next. allstate is adapting. with drones to assess home damage sooner. and if a flying object damages your car, you can snap a photo and get your claim processed in hours, not days. plus, allstate can pay your claim in minutes. now that you know the truth... are you in good hands? discover.o. i like your card, but i'm absolutely not paying an annual fee. discover has no annual fees. really? yeah. we just don't believe in them. oh nice. you would not believe how long i've been rehearsing that. no annual fee on any card. only from discover.

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i'm ready to crush ap english. i'm ready to do what no one on my block has done before. forget that. what no one in the world has done before. all i need access, tools, connections. high-speed connections. is the world ready for me? through internet essentials, comcast has connected more than six-million low-income people to low-cost, high-speed internet at home. i'm trying to do some homework here. so they're ready for anything. journalist jamal khashoggi

has died, and the president has words of support for the royal fame, trump trying to have it both ways. they have been all over the place, but the president continues to emphasize the importance of the u.s.-saudi relationship. meanwhile, quot meanwhile "the washington post" continues to see answers for his death. let's bring in his editor, we spoke to you two weeks ago when his disappearance just started to become worldwide news, now they are finally admitting that he died at the consulate on october 2nd, how are you grieving? >> it has just been a slow, agonizing drip of horrible

information back and forth for the last two weeks. to hear the sai saudis at the m minimal level admitting he died, it is a temperature, i think, th -- step, i think, we knew he wasn't coming back but the finality of it it, for me at least personally is still hard. it is still hard to wrap my head around the fact that he was born in 1958 and died in 2018, his family has been devastated. for all of the geopolitical games and the discussions about the u.s. and saudi relationship, turkey, iran, qatar, whatever.

at the end of the day this is a man, a human being that just wanted to write and gave his life for it and it still hurts. >> what is the post doing in the days ahead? i saw your publisher fred ryan coming out saying this is not an explanation, this is a cover up, what are you and your colleagues doing now going forward? >> yeah, i agree, this is not an explanation, not satisfactory. i said colorfully on twitter that the idea that he might have been in a fistfight against 15 other people is total b.s. frankly. in the coming days ahead, we're still going to write and push for answers, and push for credible international investigation, and it is also to push for, at this point, the turks. the turks are the ones who, this

whole time, have been leaking that they have evidence of the killing, leaking that they have -- not just a kitilling, b the cover up, the dismemberment and what have you. it is time for them to fell tel what they have. time to put an end to the guessing, the speculation, and the rumor mongering and come forward with the truth is. >> and the president just said he is going to come out on tuesday and talk about jammal. but i wonder if there is anything more the post can do. >> all of the problems that

jamal himself was a unique opportunity to push for answers. the economist that the jailed for criticizing vision 2030, the economic plan, or the women's driving activist that was snatched up from the uae sitting somewhere we think in a jail in saudi arabia, we're not sure. it is time to focus on others that have disappeared or been detained without due process. it is not just his murder, as heinous as it is, it is also yemen, it is also the kidnapping of lebanese and the lebanese prime minister. it is about really pressing for accountability on saudi arabia

which is supposed today be a reliable partner, and it is anything put in the last week, or personally in the last year or so. we will continue to shout and press our u.s. officials to do mo more. >> thank you so much for keeping his spirit alive, i done know how you're doing it, but you really are. >> thank you for covering this, we appreciate it. >> a quick churn to domestic politics next. you heard of the silent major y majority, how about the exhausted majority. maybe we're not as divided as cable news makes us seem. his parents shared videos of highlights, dance moves, and jimmy carlyle stealing third... almost. they sent seven texts when a new friend invited nick for a play date.

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that's gillette clear gel. it goes on clear and keeps you fresh all day. and it doesn't leave white marks on your shirt. gillette clear gel antiperspirant. sometimes people make things out to be good versus evil. most of us are not engaged in the civil war going on on capitol hill and the white house. that is the result of a new group called hidden tribes of america. they interviewed 8,000 americans trying to get to the bottom of what is sew polarizing. i spoke to tim dixon about the

hidden tribes and who makes up the majority. if is definitely not the sho shouting voices on fox and msnbc. >> the wings are the voices of the right and the left, but there is a very large group, the majority of americans, who are in the exhausted majority who don't identify unam bbiunambigo. >> you say it is not like that at all? >> no, it is not like that at all. the two groups that we identify are the progressive activists, the devoted conservatives on the right side, but they have a group next to them, traditional conservatives that are quite similar in most respects and less intense in their

commitment. but those groups are really a small proportion of the country. there is a tremendous anxiety about the division, and most of the people with their voices being heard that it it is indust voices, that is a result of years of social media and special media in the last few years, the last decade. and that is really having an effect. people have a remarkable cartoonish view of the other side. if you think the other side is so extreme, you will feel it is okay for your side to go to an extreme for the values.

so they have conduct they would recognize as being dishonest, far too aggressive, completely inappropriate. people feel like well we have to do this. they're obsessed with the other side. both sides are always talking about the other side. this sets up an us versus them narrative. the outrage of the other side. >> so clearly he is assigning some glam for our political e woes to hyper partisan media. >> i think we have to think hard about the funding and financing model for the media. the problem is that to me, looking at this research, partisan media is making things worse. in a way that is very dangerous.

they have two strident voices, and they live in their own information wordlds. the model makes money. and it was a very interesting thing, the passive liberals, we asked them about why they think this word of politics has become so tribalized. a lot of people are making money out of it. the financing model is u a really important piece i think. >> they're on to it, right? >> yeah, i feel like we're at war, then i walk outside and everybody is very friendly on the street. i get on the street and things are okay. it is a disconnect between the fight that we appear to be having on tv and the kind of reality of the country where most people are just exhausted or disengaged. >> exactly i wonder how can we

tell the story of every day americans that are not two extremes, can we get away from setting up debates between two extreme sides to avoid a blowout. can we put two normal moderate conservatives in a moderate liberal side by side that are most representative of most people in the country and they might talk through an issue, have points of difference, and also have points of commonality. that is the way that most live their lives. i think the media environment has contributed to this. >> hear my full interview on the reliable sources podcast. coming up next, karl burnstein will join me.

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there is a thread of all of the news we're running through today. think about what this week was, this was the week that president trump called stormy daniels horse face and then praised the bod yy slamming of a journalist. there was cheers for it. i want to bring in the one man that can help us get through, karl, you have been saying this is the war on truth, we're seeing a war on truth. is president trump winning that war? >> it is not just president trump that is winning that war, it is the forces of those who believe in untruth. paramount in that is trump and the way he looks at the world. we have had presidents in the

past who have lied. no question about that. what we have never had is a president of the united states who uses lying and untruth as a method to promote policies, beliefs, and his way of approaching and engaging with the world. his default position is to use untruths to go toward his objectives. and the best example of it in this horrible week in which we are dealing with the khashoggi murder is the body slamming incident where the president of the united states again repeating that the press is the enemy of the people, this horrible phrase with its echoes of totalitarianism, gets up and praises a congressional candidate for body slamming a reporter. in the same time period in which

a reporter has been murdered, perhaps dismembered, by an outlaw rogue state actor. so where does that put us on what side of the equation? >> you tell me. where does it put us? >> i think where it puts us, first of all, is uniquely we have a president who does not believe in truth as the force that ought to be our objective in policy and who we are as a people. this is far different than anything we have experienced. but it also is part of, you know, trump didn't invent this. we live in a time in which truth is devalued in all kinds of institutions. and we have now this division not just amongst our people but through social media and the press. i want to suggest that

particularly news institutions and particularly on television, cable news, that we need to be doing much more than just trump lie catching. the lie catching is easy. but when trump talks, for instance, about voter fraud as he did in a tweet last night and warned people about fraudulent voting, we need to be doing stories about the reality of whether or not there is widespread voter fraud. let's look at the underlying questions as reporters and present real reporting in depth that examines the underlying issues. >> and there is not -- there is not widespread voter fraud. i think most americans know that. and all the reporting backs up that. and yet the president by tweeting it, what's he doing? engaging in a form of voter suppression? >> it certainly would appear that that is part of it. also, i mean, i talk to people

in the white house or are in touch with the white house on friday who believe that if the congressional midterms are very close and the democrats were to win by five or seven seats, that trump is already talking about how to throw legal challenges into the courts, sow confusion, declare a victory, and say the election has been illegitimate. that that is really under discussion in the white house. i was told that on friday. that, too, is a story we ought to be going after and i trust that really good reporters are going after that story. but i want to get back to this war on truth. it's not only -- look at what happened with wells fargo. what happened with that institution, employees from top to bottom engaged in fraud and trying to hide it. we have a different devalued

look at truth, perhaps, than we have in previous times in our history. especially in this country. but one of the things about our country and the objectives in the post-war era of our policy, yes, we have embraced terrible dictators before. particularly during the cold war, in latin america, in africa, all over the world. just as we are watching the trump administration embrace the saudi leaders. but we also know that we have some leverage. and instead of trying to use that leverage, immediately donald trump and his family -- don junior especially in his tweets trying to say that khashoggi was an instrument of radical islam -- >> right. ridiculous smears. >> again, a war on truth.

instead of saying, hey, this is the time for truth. let us say to mbs, you must have a thorough investigation and deliver the truth to the people of the world. donald trump's first instinct was to go to the cover story. and that is what we have that is different in this president of the united states than any previous president. the default is go to the cover story. go to the lie. go to that which is untrue. go to that which is not scientific. go to the birther question. et cetera, et cetera. this is new territory of untruth. >> carl bernstein. you said it better than anybody could. thank you so much for being here. that's all for this televised edition of "reliable sources." but we keep going online. sign up for our nightly news letter if you're not on the list. comes out six nights a week for free. we'll see you right back here this time next week. ar storm should happen every five hundred years, right?

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saudi arabia claims khashoggi's death was an accident. president trump says that could be true. >> it was a good first half, but i want to get to the answer. >> but not everyone is willing to buy what the saudis are selling. bob corker and ben sasse in moments. plus, politics of fear. the president going back to what's worked. fear. and the border. claiming democrats are opening the gates for a migrant caravan full of criminals. >>