supporters. and his supporters, as andrew gillum said i'm not calling you a racist, i'm just saying the racists think you're a racists. they believe he's on their side and he hasn't pushed back enough to say i am not with you. >> he has not tossed around words like nationalism when we know what his supporters from the dark internet take from it. >> the president missed an opportunity back in the day to say that, he should correct it. the president should stand up and forfeit lieke he did yesterday and condemn the act. >> the last asvertisement for president trump's campaign for president talked about global special interests as the jewish faces of janet yellin, george soros went by. if that's not a dog whistle.

>> in the control room, do you have that element ready? this was the last tv ad that president trump and his campaign ran right before the election. and as jonathan wiseman accurately opponents out, it uses the individual of three individuals who are jewish, janal yellin, and george soros. >> for those who control the levers of power in washington and for the global special interests, it's a global power stru structure that is responsible for the economic decisions that have robbed our working class, stripped our country of its wealth and put that money into the of the pockets of a handful of large corporations and political entities. >> and that sends a shiver down

my side. >> goldman sachs, the ad for wall street. janet yellin, the chairman of the fed. george soros, billionaire left wing guy. >> it's an ad against democrats. it's not an ad against republicans. >> we can deny it, we can deny it, but the fact is there's a pattern here. >> we all agree about one thing, right, it's a terrible thing. and also the mental health croesus that's raging in america, because none of these folks did healthy acts. >> the question is whether or not any of them are being juiced up from what they're hearing from their leader. >> the man who constructed the pipe bombs constructed 12 pipe

bombs. when the president uses language like enemies of the people -- >> let me address that. but everybody who worked with that guy said he was insane. see something, say something. the guy is driving around with a van that shouts i'm crazy, he needs to be institutionalized, and his boss said he was crazy but he showed up for work -- >> mental health illness is real, but i know people -- >> let us say this, there are most people who struggle with mental issues, are not violent, do not do anything violent and it's wrong to stigmatize them. i'm sure we agree with that. >> we do agree with that. but politics, people should win but not do everything to win. we are in a climate now where too many politicians president trump included are doing anything to win.

and they don't care about the fallout. >> everyone has got to disarm. >> listen, i said far too many. but he's the president of the united states. >> do you really think that it's just a coincidence that the three symbols of globalism and special interests, screwing the workingman and woman are jewish? >> i said i was explaining the ad the way i saw it. i didn't produce it. i'm just giving you another opinion behind the ad. >> -- to follow white nationalist language that they borrowed language from that cesspool. and you see it bubbling up on fox news occasionally. >> last night. last night on fox business. >> you're asking about the ad -- >> but you think there's a potentially innocent explanation. >> i think there is.

i absolutely do. >> these things, there's a whole science to this, jake. let's not delude ourselves. that ad, it was deliberate. >> as a scholar of this, and i'm not making light of that. you wrote a whole book about about this, do you think it's possible it's a coincidence those three individuals other than hillary clinton and barack obama, that the ad singles out are jewish. in the same way the kevin mccarthy tweet about bloomberg and steyer and soros is coincidence. >> let me ask you this, aidalson who is also very rich and funding the republican campaign has failed to show up in any of this. i haven't seen anybody talking about -- i haven't seen democrats railing against sheldon aidalson for spending

50, $60 million to re-elect the republican conference. i'm sorry, i actually -- if you look back at the 2016 campaign a number of times -- i don't know who it is -- a number of times we saw very strong evidence that somebody in that campaign was swimming in the alt right world. when that picture came up of hillary clinton on top of the jewish star -- >> i think we have that element, too. let's put that up. it was a tweet that the president sent out, and it had -- actually that meme was actually taken from an anti-semitic website. >> exactly. >> well, his campaign manager wanted to be a platform for the alt right for breitbart news. >> there it is. on the left is a trump tweet about goldman sachs and the money and it's a jewish star, and then they re-did it with a circle. and the initial explanation from the trump campaign was the

jewish star was a sheriff's star. >> except it came out of an anti-semitic website. they are trolling around looking for these images. you know what, many people would see that and they wouldn't understand it, but if you're in that alt right world, you know exactly where that came from. >> listen, i understand your point. i will tell you at that point in time vance covino said he did it. we can go back and pull the print from it, but he owed up to it, it wasn't some grand conspiracy and he admitted to it. >> is he still in the white house? >> yes, he is. so you're accusing him of being anti-semitic in. >> yes, i am.

>> when you see all of these things and david is doing his best to explain this is how it happened, where this happened. none of it came from david, but he's trying to give his trump point of view this is -- >> i know for sure president trump likes to stoke controversy. he doesn't mind if we fight about this. both times after charlottesville, he doesn't mind. and so my question is i'm no longer looking for president trump to do the right thing. i hate after all these tragedies we look to what the president says. i'm looking for other people to step up and have a better message. i'm looking. isn't anyone looking? are we going to let donald trump dominate the conversation in the worst way? >> you used to work for ted cruz, is ted cruz saying the

right thing st. >> i'm looking, and it baffles me why no one is stepping up to that plate. >> it's just politics. going back to the point doing anything to win, it's a big difference. most of these folks in these offices all they care about is election day. they don't want to chastise their voters by coming out strong against racism and bigotry. >> there's no place for it in the public square. it should be widely condemned. listen, why is hate so prevalent? to jonathan's point, where did it start, how do we stop? how do we get back to civility in the public square? >> i think social media plays a huge role. as long as there are companies

that don't mind making money off hate speech it will continue. >> and governor sclarhwarzenegg said this, too, but redistricting makes seats safer and safer. and we draw these districts that are very left and very right and no check on anything. >> all the hate we've seen from the incidents we've talked about this week were from the right, the far, far right. i'm not equating the two, and i'm not saying it's the same thing. but lou is out there calling jews termites and preaching hatred, and he is somebody who recently was on stage with several former presidents at a funeral. >> that was shocking. i go around the country talking about this. and i talk about louis farikan,

as bigoted and what comes out of his mouth is pretty much the same. i'd like to say his power kind of peaked in 1995 with the million mile march and has gown downhill. that line i used was -- that image of him sitting at aretha franklin's funeral -- >> i'm not saying it's the same thing, but how -- why would we tolerate it on either side? >> it shouldn't be. but in terms of aretha franklin's funeral i don't know who's on the invitation list. so someone peag at aretha franklin's funeral is not the equivalent at all what's going

on here. >> not at all. >> this is making me feel some kind of way. i will say this that both the -- because we continue to see these things through left and right, let's just see it through the lens of humanity, that every -- this is all about how strong of a democrat are you or how strong of a republican are you, when it should be how strong of a person are you to stand up for humanity? >> it is amazing in my travels how i see bigotry itself has become a partisan issue. and if you stand up against bigotry somehow you're a left wing lunatic. it's crazy. it's crazy. >> or a right wing lunatic. >> i will say in my travels, too, i've seen this kind of stuff at the hands of candidates. there's a man right now who's running in california where we know two democrats can go head to head. where images are coming out against her at the hands of her supporters and opponent who's a

democrat. so nobody has a premium on whether they can be racist or bigoting. but what we do have to do is stop seeing everything through the lens of whether you're republican or democrat but through the lens of what kind of country to be want to be. >> and again propagated and stoked by nameless faceless folks on social media. >> so on that note of agreement, i'll -- it's tough to have these conversations. >> but, jake, we -- >> but i'm glad we are. >> to this show's credit we talk, we go, we leave. we're friends -- >> i just want to say -- >> but unlike the discourse that's being had on social media where people get to shutdown people, call them horrific names -- >> so none of us are going to look at our social media accounts after this conversation. but thanks for speaking from your hearts. we appreciate it. this massacre took place in squirrel hill which literally,

literally was mr. roger's neighborhood. i want to end the show today with some wise words from the american icon how we can hope from tragedy. >> when i was a little boy and something bad happened in the news my mother would tell me to look for the helpers. you'll always find people helping, she'd say. and i'd found that that's true. >> look for the helpers. may that offer you some comfort and may the memories of those lost at the synagogue in pittsburgh, may those memories be a lesson. fareed saccharia gps is next. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. today on the show horror in pittsburgh. 11 people are dead after an

anti-semitic shooting rampage at a synagogue. then this week's other news on foreign policy with samantha power, michael hayden and steven hadly. but first, here's my take. this is a sad week for america, one of the saddest that i have ever witnessed. first a series of bombs directed at a former president and other public figures. then an act of horrific terror in a house of worship. we seem to have crossed lines and broken barriers of decency of the attack on the tree of life synagogue strikes me as particularly tragic. one of the most extraordinary features of modern american life has been the integration of its jewish community. for over 2,500 years jews have been vilified and persecuted everywhere. and then came america and israel. two places are jews could breathe easily and live safely. in turn, in this country jews

have been deeply patrottic and productive americans p, scaling the heights of achievement but also becoming civic leaders, philanthropists and could citizens. and yet we have seen an unmistakable rise of anti-semitism in recent years. and now this. what does this say about america? the two events of this week are quite different and most importantly, let's pea clear, the responsible parties for the violent acts are the people who perpetrated them. but they have taken place against a backdrop. first, there's been decades of increasingly heated and nasty political record. people are moved to action by what they believe by the words, thoughts, ideas they're surrounded by. -- once said that mad men in authority who hear voices in the air are disstilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back.

and donald trump has spoken harshly about his opponents, but he has not had a monopoly on this kind of talk. democrats have done their share of demonizing. now, i think this particular story does have a beginning at least in the modern era. it's well told most recently in the atlantic. in 1978 into tnewt gingrich, we encourage you to be nasty. he wrote that gingrich setout to remedy this affect, and when he made a push for the house he sent cassette tapes and memos to members across the country instructing them how to speak like newt. with words like sick, pathetic, lie, anti-flag, radical, traitors, corrupt. and since then we have watched

since it became more personal, nasty and destructive on both side. the second has been the tomeration and encouragement of white nationalism. this is more recent, but it is the disputable. for example, when politicians from all parties and businessmen of all stripes condemned president trump for calling some of the white nationalists in charlottesville very fine people, quote-unquote, they feared that he was tolerating precisely the kind of nationalism, hatred and anti-semitism that has burst forth this week. finally, guns. when will we come to the blindingly obvious conclusion that to mean many people in this country have access to too many kinds of military-style weapons, which makes us unique in the advanced world? do we really have to live in a country where school, churches, mosques and synagogues become armed zones? fear, hatred and division.

historians sometimes remind us that we've seen ugly times before as a nation, and it's true. the alien sedition acts, the first red scare, mccarthyism all saw deeply divisive politics and incendiary tactics. we look back on the period with shame, as we surely will this one. and let's get started. we will not give the killer the dignity of offering hiss name today. but i will name the terrific panel i've gathered to talk about this. the ceo of the anti-defamation league. tom freeman "the new york times" op-ed columnist and david frum, a senior fellow from the atlantic. what is the big take away from

these two events, particularly the last one as i said, the synagogue, which just strikes me as a terrible, terrible sign. some kind of a canary in a coal mine. >> well, thanks for having me. the frame i look at all this goes back to a column i wrote a week before the election. i quoted one of my features who said we're living in an age of moral arousal. moral arousal is good thing when people are aroused against racism and anti-semitism and abuse by men to women in the workplace. it can easily lapse into moral outrage, and then you find yourself in a huge storm. and that's where we really are today. now, where does all this moral arousal come from, fareed? first it comes tech logically. we live in an age of social networks where anyone morally

aroused on any issue can speak to the world. what these platforms also do, though, is they give comfort to racists and homophobes and anti-semites. because of these social networks vaik find nelo bigoted people. and secondly the biggest moral arousal comes from the fact that people dividing us has actually become a business. we have a network in this country that's in the business of dividing us. okay? we know that. we have politicians who are in the business of dividing us. we have commentators who are getting rich by dividing us. at the same time we're at an age where political identities are really up for grabs. who's an american? what bathrooms can i use inwho's going to have a job, me or the robot? that also adds to this arousal. and lastly we have a president

whose political business model is to divide and create fear. so trump's actual job description to by a healer conflicts with his business model, all right, which is to be a divider. when you have all of this moral arousal, okay, and moral outrage and it doesn't end up in moral conversation but just ends up in moral outrage and arousal, you get this giant storm. think what happened this week with megan kelly, i'll stop here on nbc, she lost her job for making stupid and insensitive statements about black face. immediately it's off with your head. what if we had spent the week telling meghan kelly you need to spend the week on your show about the moral conversation about this issue. unfortunately we go from moral arousal to outrage to off with your head, and we have no president, fareed, who can galvanize the country in a moral conversation about these issues and to engage people because his

business model to create division and fear conflicts with his job description to be a uniter and healer. >> jonathan, you and i have talkin' over the years, and you've been pointing out to me for a while, years now where that there has been this extraordinary rise of anti-semitism in a country where we thought we had solved this problem. >> the likes which we haven't had in thousands of years, but the anti-semitism we're seeing explode for some time has been with us for some time. what's different now is it's out in the open in a way that defies morality. in 2016 after more than a decade of decline, we saw a 34% increase of acts of harassment, vandalism and violence. last year a 57% spike. the single largest surge we have ever seen in covering this for 40 years. and in fact just last week i was

with the head of the nypd hate crimes task force who told me that to date in 2018 the number of anti-semitic hate crimes in new york city is almost at the exact same level as it was a year ago. so it's troubling and what is terrifying this seems to be the new normal as we saw punctuated in such a tragic way yesterday in pittsburgh. >> david frum, is it fair to talk about the surround, you know, and the political rhetoric? or is that too far? i'm thinking, for example, of the fact this idea that the tree of life or the screwish groups have been this claim, i mean all you have to do is listen to fox news and you would hear it often repeated, there was a campbell's soup vice president for government affairs who tweeted about how george soros was funding this. there was a pro-trump campaign

ad, the last pro-trump campaign ad who had three very prominent campaign jews, photographs talking about globalism, a conspiracy to deny ordinary americans their rights, are these anti-semitic tropes or are we stretching too far? >> george soros i think is very much owed an apology by fox news who have created an incitement against him. the bombings and the shooting are quite different, and i would direct attention to it to two special ways. the first is the targets of the bombing are people who have been individually attacked and denounced by president trump. and the bomber seems to be somebody who was quite a political.

so i think that attempted crime, those crimes are very attributable to the president. his incitement has quite a direct connection in the attempt to these dozen bomb taemts. unlike the shooter who seems to have been reacting to a much more generalized level of anti-semitism we've been discussing already. and as said, the trump administration and others have dog whistled about jews, they have not been directly inciting as they were against the targets of the bombers. the bombers sent a dozen packages or so to a dozen people and no one was hurt. because making an effective bomb is quite a technically challenging task, and getting it through and transporting it through the mail there are many legal obstacles including the obligation to deliver any package of any size yourself at the post office. and so thank god nobody was hurt in those attacks. on the other hand, once you decide to use a firearm as your weapon of murder, then it could

not be easier. and we have seen not only in this terrible attack in pittsburgh but in las vegas, in new port, in so many crimes in schools that anybody who can easily get hands on these insanely dangerous weapons who can kill not just one person at a time but dozens of people at a time. >> tom freeman, do you think when we confront this kind of problem is the answer to speak out to denounce it? is it to go and look for more people? i think at some level i look at this now and i'm at a loss to say how do you tone down -- how do you make less of this happen? >> well, fareed, it stars with leadership. actually, in my career i've covered the secretary of state and the president of the united states as a reporter. one thing you notice when you cover the president is the exponential expansion of the megaphone. there's just nothing like the

president of the united states. and when you had a policeman confront a black professor in boston, the obama presidency, what did obama do? he invited him for beer at the white house. there is no single magic cure for this, fareed. but one thing i can't tell you what's fish but what is necessary, and that is for the president of to show empathy and be someone who demonstrates moral compassion, moral conversation, moral engagement by what he does and what he says, not to say let's just get this bomb stuff out of the way, so i can actually go back and keep the country focused on the fact there's a caravan of refugees from honduras headed our way and there are middle eastern times among them. that was a keecold flat out lie absent any evidence to the contrary. and what trump is doing is exactly the opposite. and we cannot run away from that. of course he didn't order these shootings, of course he's not

directly responsible. but he's responsible for failing to creating the counter context to this, and he's responsible for inspiring people who have these views to feel comfort sharing them. >> let me add on that middle east caravan thing, even if there are middle easterners, which you said there's no evidence, it's worth pointing out 99.9% of middle easterners are not involved in terrorism, and it's an ugly slur. you've been tracking this particularly with regard to technology. you had a report out just this last friday that talks about how social media as has actually as tom freeman said, encouraged more of this. so what is the solution? >> if you're fighting the front line on hate now today you have to be confronting facebook and twitter and google and youtube and all the big brands and platforms. we've literally opened up a administrate in silicon valley last year, and i think there's two pieces to this puzzle. so number one, we need to be

engaging with industry and thinking about not just better policies for the platforms but better products for the users. and how do we use technology and reimagine the algorithms to take hate speech and get it off of those platforms and/or at least if you can't remove it entirely you can turn down the volume to make a far harder to hear and to find. so we need to engage the companies to use innovation to engineer better progress. and secondly we need policy makers to get involved. the law needs to consider and identify these as issues that require policy solutions as well. so we need both our policy makers and our product designers to get engaged in fighting the problem. >> david frum, what about this issue particularly with the tretree of life synagogue, which has revealed once again this guy had 21 or 22 guns. you know, one of them was an 47,

a military style assault weapon -- i'm sorry, ar-15, a military assault weapon. is there anything that could change the dynamic in this? >> written about this how since sandy hook the legislative at the state level the legislation of guns has become more p permissive and you can now bring guns into bars of all places. i think what we're going to see with weapons something that happened with drunk driving in the 1970s and '80s which is cultural revolution is coming. and it is going to be driven very much by women, by mothers who at some point going to break through the relatively small number of strategically placed people to make it possible to have any kind of regulations other countries are have.

what you can cannot get is an a-15, what you can get is a glauc, because why on earth would you need an ar-15 or glock when hunting a deer? >> tom freeman, what does it say about the situation in america today that, you know, i can't remember the last middle eastern or let alone foreign actor who has perpetrated an act of terrorism in the united states. it's been years now. and what we are now talking about, who would have thought, right, 17 years after 9/11 what we're talking about is not islamic terrorism but domestic terrorism being perpetrated in the united states on the basis of politics and religion. >> fareed, there's a sickness in the country. i grew up in minnesota in a

jewish community exactly like squirrel hill, and my wife grew up in iowa. i grew up in a time and place where i saw jews fully integrated into american life. nevertheless i saw politics work. and what is so troubling to me today is we've reached a point where it's not working in the country, where we are the problem, not foreigners. and the problem is very clear. we have a president without chain. he is backed by a party without spine, and they are amplified by a network without integrity. and when you face that there is only one thing to do, and that is to get a lever of power to change it. there is one thing to do in this mid-term election and that is vote for a democrat. i think there's any other solution in the short-term. >> jonathan? >> we've looked at the extremist murders in the u.s., in the last

25 years the vast majority, almost 80% have been committed by extreme white fanatics. i also want to underscore this problem is bigger than one person. whether you're the president of the united states or a university president or the president of the pta, we expect people in positions of authority or public figures to speak out consistently and clearer when anti-semitism shows or other forms of intolerance. and we in the public and media need to hold them accountable with they don't do that. >> david frum, any last thoughts? we've got about two minutes left. >> president trump just last week complained his twitter was being underserved by the platform. suggesting whenever he hears people talk in the way justthen

ju did, he thinks they're talking about him. he's never going to be different, he's never going to be better. i think when we ask questions on tv what should the president do, i think we need to start with who and what the president is. he will not improve. he is what he is. >> let me thank you all and let me just in closing remind you it's a terrific quote by a german lutheran minister's name i can't remember, but when i recall something like this, first they came for the socialists and i did not speak out because i was not a socialists, and then they came for the trade unionists, and they came for the jews and i did not speak out because i was not a jew. and then they came for me but i did not speak out because there was no one left to speak out. when we come back, foreign policy.

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it was a busy week in the world, and there's much to discuss with today's terrific panel. we recorded this group not on our set but on a stage in new albany, ohio, in front of a group of citizens who wanted to learn and inform themselves. i was invited there to moderate a discussion on thursday night amongst a stellar group of foreign policy doers and thinkers. samantha power was u.n. ambassador to the u.n. under president obama. today she's a harvard professor at the kennedy school and law school. michael hayden was director of the cia and nsa and today he's a cnn national security analyst, and steven hadly was national security advisor under president george w. bush. he is a principal at the

international strategic consulting firm. i thought we'd take you into the national security counsel and play a little simulation, and where i'm going to arbitrarily say roughly speaking, steve, i'm going to take your old job and i'm going to be the national security advisor. there's no doubt a prospect of this actually happening. you're going to be secretary of defense. you're going to be head of intelligence, and you're going to be the secretary of state, sam. so i don't want you really to think about the position, and i don't want you to jealously guard your bureaucratic turf. i just want you to give the president who is sitting there somewhere in the back your best advice. mike, you have the saudi situation. the turkish government has now made absolutely clear that they have from their point of view incontrovertible evidence that

the saudis did what they did, the saudis deny, and the saudis acknowledge khashoggi was in fact killed and now the most recent twist was the fact it was premeditated. what is the intelligence community's rally? are you going to positively confirm the turkish version of events, and what do you need to tell the president? >> craw, so what you need to do is to give the president your best view of what constitutes objective reality. what exactly did happen. steve and i know, you could be wrong about your objective view. we've got life experience there, all right? but it's got to be your best shot of what constitutes objective reality. >> is the unpleasant fact in this case that this killing was probably directed from the highe highest echelons of the saudi government? >> from the outside looking in,

based on experience number one the turks are competitors with saudis within the suny world, and we would literally stamp everything with this is designed to influence and inform. you need to be a bit skeptical about turkish information. but my sense is the body of data, what the turks have apparently presented, what it is we very likely know, and we would have launched the scar fleet here, scouts out in terms of the internal workings of the saudi government, my judgment is this does not happen without the knowledge and permission and direction of the crown prince. and so this is on him. and so what it is you owe the president is to not allow him to pretend that there is doubt or that it is not on the crown prince. he can decide what he wants, and

it's a really ugly decision, but you cannot pretend that he doesn't have that really difficult decision. at some point you're going to say, mr. president, they did it, it was premeditated, we know he approved it, and if asked we are going to have to say so to other parts of the american government. >> and yet, steve hadly, saudi arabia is a force for stability in oil markets and has been an important ally and militarily of the united states for decades, right? >> and one of the 'ings someo s has to do and it may be the president is to say, you know, it's not quite simple. so to take mike's point turkey actually has more journalists in prison today than any other country in the world. and this is the president of the turkey championing the death of a journalist as being a bridge

of press freedom, which it is. he's also in competition with the crown prince of saudi arabia in particular. so he has an ax to grind on this. secondly, how does the rest of the world see this? well, if you look at what's coming out tof it region, our traditional allies in the region have all rallied behind the saudis in general and mohammed bin salman in particular. there are people who say this should raise a question about the secession. that's a conversation you have with the president. should we be trying to influence that succession? is that something the united states should be doing as a matter of principle? is there a plan b for mohammed bin salman if he steps down that will provide a stable saudi arabia? because saudi arabia is our historic ally in the region. it's a country we depend onto manage the issue of iran.

it is a country we are going to depend onto make up a shortfall in oil production when on november 4th we try to take a million barrels of iranian oil off the oil markets. so again this dilemma, if he's implicated in this terrible crime, what do you do about it when also he seems to be a vehicle for reform in saudi arabia that is actually supported by a lot of youthful saudis. i say this not for the answer but to show the exquisitely difficult -- >> and samantha powers is now going to give us the answer -- >> hardly. by the way, this is exactly what happens in the situation room. o it's true that mohammed bin salman has probably the shiniest and most graphically appealing power point on the future of saudi arabia that you can imagine. but at the same time he is boasting about and seems intent on pursuing a set of reforms aimed at modernization and i

indeed have to admit is quite popular with young people for that reason, he's convincing people that's his agenda. he has orchestrated one of the most intense crack downs on dissent, for what passes as media and even on women who seeked to exercise in ways that depart modestly from the script he's putting in place. you also have to judge his performance and his capability of implicating a modernization agenda against the operations he's managed up to the this point, which includes the most devastating war from yemen which again doesn't get any coverage, why? because it's a dangerous place to be, and mainly because saudi arabia doesn't allow journalists into yemen. so i think to the degree and i think that the question, fareed, as you posted about or steve posted about whether the united states can get in the business of picking princes, that's a very dangerous -- i would say

out of that business. so i think starting with yemen, i think a suspension in general of arms sales at this point. but where we seek to get the british and french and other big arms dealers onboard is critically important. and a cold shoulder that really extends well beyond an investment conference to an individual i think we are finding or will find officially is responsible for this operation. one thing the treasury secretary did not going to the investment conference and then doing photo-ops with the individual of the operation, precisely the wrong signal to send. >> stay with us for more of this fascinating panel discussion. arr than ever so it's harder to resist. okay, this is getting a little weird enjoy the go with charmin ...if we listened more? could the right voice,

the right set of words, bring us all just a little closer, get us to open up, even push us further? it could. if we took the time to listen. the most inspiring minds. the most compelling stories. download audible. and listen for a change.

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more now of my panel discussion with samantha power, michael hayden, and steven hadly. i sat down with them on stage thursday night in new albany, ohio. let's talk, mike hayden about something we have focused on for a while but haven't talked about yet on this panel, russia. what do we need to understand about vladimir putin's russia? is he trying to destabilize the

world for sport? is there a strategy behind it? what's the problem and what should the u.s. do? >> so i think it's fair to say we took our eye off the ball a little bit in the first decade or so of this century. i'll be the first to admit it, i was the director of the cia for two and a half, three years, went to more than 50 countries. not one of them was named russia. counter terrorism, counter proliferation sucked all of the oxygen out of the room. so we're coming late to this. the second is we need to scope this very carefully. i'm glad we put some distance to talking about china and talking about russia. because one is resurgent power and the other is now. there are three american states, california, new york and texas that individually have economies larger than the russian federation. so let's keep that in mind.

so putin has a fairly weak hand. now, i think he's playing with a pair of 7s, all right, in his hand. but until someone calls the pot 7s win. the grand strategy is pull us, the large plural us down to his level. and that's why the information warfare attempts at the european union, the north atlantic treaty organization, the brexit vote and the american political process, he needs to pull us down to his level to a point where his power, which he cannot really substantially increase, matters again. >> samantha, to me the most extraordinary thing about our tribal politics is that we have now taken on policy preferences and dislikes that mirror whatever it is our leaders say. so when you see polling now republicans say they kind of like russia, and they're reasonably comfortable with

vladimir putin. the democrats, which used to be the doves in these terms now hate russia and believes there needs to be a very tough anti-russia policy. is our international on the look now part of our tribal approach to domestic policy? >> that's partyism again, where you adopt the whole sort of roster of issues if it's associated with your party now that the party identification is transcending that of other commonalities. i think what's really note worthy about russia's approach is that it goes back to the old soviet tactics. our adversaries through history, and this will be true of other leading powers in prior ages, they understand our division is good for them. and so what has russia done apart from interfering in our election, it's not just that, right? they look at the kavanaugh hearing and say see the way our country gets polarized. what do you see russian bots and

trols, that same network that was used back in 2016, you see them playing up the pro-kavanaugh social media and see them playing up the anti-. on shifcharlottesville again yoe them antifa and the sort of neo-nazi far-alt right whatever. they actually see it as a national security advantage to take our fissures or social fissures and not just political divisions along party lines but these cultural divisions that are really firing people up these days, and that is in their interest. >> steve, is it fair to say when you look at the united states, powerful technology, economy doing superbly and military still the envy of the world, the great vulnerability it has is this deep, domestic divide. that if you think of what putin did, the most important thing putin was able to do in thefo n

interference of the election he played into this deep divide where each side is willing to think the worst of the other. >> i think the united states, if you're worried about the united states, we have a lot of tools to run a successful foreign policy that is in our interest and can provide prosperity and security for our people. but our brand is not doing well internationally. there's a reason why people are taking seriously china's claim to have a new model. it's because ours doesn't look very good. our economy still is not producing sustained inclusive growth. our politics are fractious. we can't work across the aisle. there are a long list of social problems, budgets, intitle payments that we know migration reform, we know for 15 years we

have to address it, and we haven't done so. so if we want to fix our foreign policy, we've got to fix our domestic situation. our politics, our economics. wave got to now solve some of these questions that have been lingering. i'm hopeful in part i've spent some time with people. the next generation is coming. i would say, you know, if you want to fix our foreign policy, fix our domestic policy and get organized and get active in our policy, support right wing candidates and for goodness sakes, come out and vote. that's how we fix this. >> all right, on that front, thank you all. >> thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. hi, i'm brian stelter and this is special edition of reliable sources. right now america can hardly

catch its breath. think about the past 72 hours as the headline here on cnn.com says three hate filled crimes, three hate filled suspects. and now a search for answers on a conversation of what inspires this hate, this violence, this disregard of for humanity, what role do our political leaders play, what role does the media play, and what about the big technology platforms? because in the u.s. today people are being radicalized by what they hear and see on social media. and it's pushing some people who are already prone to violence over the edge. before we go any further let me just say two things are true at the same time. criminals are the ones responsible for their crimes, but people in public life are responsible for the climate, for the tone that can sometimes inspire horrific events. crimes don't happen in a vacuum. so there's a lot to unpack, and we have an all-star line-up to do it today. as you know the incidents of

domestic terror and hate crimes this week started on monday with an apparent pipe bomb sent to george soros, and politicians, former u.s. presidents, other leading democratic politicians and two of them were intended here at cnn. one of the package as you know ended up in the mailroom at cnn in new york and the other package found in a mail office. and saturday we all hear about pittsburgh, a man walking into that synagogue there killing 11 people and injuring six others including four police officers. pittsburgh is really now from the newspaper front pages across pennsylvania as the state and as the country tries to make sense of it all. you know, there are so many good people in the world. so many good people spnrespondi to these