hello, everybody. i'm chris cuomo live from washington, d.c. welcome to a special sunday edition of "prime time." so a verdict is coming in 48 hours, just two days we're going to know whether trumpism is truly a mass movement. the president is banking that his special sauce of fear and loathing of migrants will bring out his folks all across this country. so if the democrats sweep up house seats with anything like a wave, the trump base is going to be seen as critics suggest, a minority that is more about rallies than real impact. the magic number is 23. that's the number of seats that the democrats need in the house. it's only two in the senate, but it's actually more likely the democrats lose -- than gain ground.

that's why we needed sunday. well needed some practice on these words. so the senate, we'll talk to you about all of it. we're going to breck down the races that matter the most, which seats might flip or igmight not and based on what. and then we have this x factor that people aren't really following. governor races. why do we care about gosh raver race? they may change the landscape. just two days. what do you say? let's get after it. tongue tied. why? this is such tricky stuff. we're off to the races. more than 27 million people all across the country have already cast their ballots for the midterms. some states are already approaching presidential levels of turnout. good for you. good for you for taking control of this process. this is what people have been asking for now half a generation. so what do we see in terms of whose coming out most robust? women, older voters. they are leading as demographics in the early vote. the former president and the

current one are both digging in. they're making their final pitches, trying to draw out young voters and independents. you know, they are the big x factor in so many elections these days. today president obama took a swipe at president trump and the cloud over his white house. >> they promised they were going to take on corruption in washington. instead they've racked up enough indictments to field a football team. nobody in my administration got indicted. >> ooh! now he is going to feel it. trump took the day to double down on fear about the caravan. listen. >> i called up the united states military. we're not playing games, folks. because you look at what's marching up, that's an invasion. that's not -- that's an invasion. >> all right. so where do these last-minute pitches and early votes leave

us? what a gift for you on a sunday night. we have s.e. cupp, dana bash and michael smerconish. how lucky am i? on a sunday night. >> thank you. >> let's talk numbers, shall we? let's put up where this early vote is, and it is impressive. this is great. millions and millions and millions of dars have been dumped into organizing by both parties. you know what? it's paying off. it's sad that we need that kind of money to grease the gears, but whatever it takes. here are states that have surpassed their 2014 votes. apples to apples, midterms to midterms, you're looking at it right there. let's give the next look of where we see people showing up the most within that. do we have that? okay. then we'll guess at it. that's why we have the panel where. do you see in terms of concentrations of numbers? there is a little red herring showing the whole map. it doesn't matter that people are coming out everywhere. we applaud that it's it's great for democracy with a big d, but

in terms of where they are, that's all that matters. >> well, a couple of things. early voters are often people who are going to have voted on election day anyway. >> yes. >> i think what it comes down to is whether or not you believe swing voters are real. if you believe swing voters are real, these are not swing voters. the people who are going out early have, already made up their mind. they've decided. they're excited. they've made their decision. if you believe that swing voters are a myth, as i tend to do, i don't think anyone's really still deciding, they're deciding whether to go or stay home, maybe, then i'm not sure that this is all that indicative, all that telling of what's about to happen. remember, florida and north carolina had huge early voting swings in 2016 that was supposed to be very good news for hillary clinton. she lost both states. and it used to be that early voting was indicative of big democratic swells in voting. and it's not the case anymore,

because republicans are in on the game, and have been for a couple of cycles. part of the sort of big surge in early voting is also that a lot more states are doing it. it's -- the groups are being aggressive. the parties are being aggressive. people are being aggressive who are motivated. i totally agree with you. >> right. >> but it's also that it's just easier, and it's more accessible than it used to be. >> it's indicative of which groups have passion going for them. but to both of these points, we've made it easier to vote, ever since motor voter, but we've not really boosted turnout. i expect that this will be a higher midterm election than the last, 2014. but i don't read too much into those numbers thinking how, we're going outpace where we were in 2016. >> what would shock you as a turnout number? >> i don't know. i would say something that's 125% of where we were in 2014. but it's a good barometer. passion wins the day, whose really going to come out. if you can delve more deeply

into those numbers and know who those folks are, right. >> it will be an indication of where passion. >> looking at some of the date that has has come, i apologize i don't visit for you right now. but we do see in the states that are going to matter in the house seats that we're looking at, you have pretty equal representation of robust turnout. >> exactly. >> there are a couple of outliers, but to your point, both teams seem to know that this game matters a little bit more than other ones, and they're coming out. >> they are. and that -- you could see us hurting some candidates, right? i'm sure jon tester, for example, would have appreciated -- >> huge turnout in his state, by the way. >> yes. but i'm sure he would have appreciated the libertarian candidate endorsing his opponent maybe a little bit earlier. now some of those votes are locked. in so it cuts both ways. yes, there is passion. but when you vote early you might miss a last-minute reversal or last-minute news. >> we saw one of the things in the diagnosis dana and i were

commiserating in the makeup room when i was getting my highlights touched up. >> you like that little silver? >> i'm not giving away your secrets. >> that's okay. i believe in transparency. >> at least highlights. >> you have the best hair in the business. if i had hair like, that it would all be on. look, the popular vote went within the margin of error in the poll of polls. but select states, the more i've dug into it now over a couple of years, what has gone wrong i don't think can be fixed which is we didn't have the ability to catch the person who is paying attention, whose triggered on something, positive or negative, but who when approached says no, i don't think i'm going to vote. >> that's right. >> that's what we saw in the states where i don't really buy into the process. and then close. >> go ahead and vote. >> they say na, that's it. i've had it. i don't know that we catch it this time either. no. 2016 was a wake-up i'll say for myself, that's for sure. but for a whole host of us to

have some trepidation about all of this data crunching. we love it. we're junkies. but we -- >> still got it wrong with gillum tuesday night. >> gillum is running his race. my sister, full disclosure, she is a documentium. she is on the ground. this gillum, he has a lot of momentum on the ground. he can't win. he is at the bottom of the polls. my sister maria is saying to me he's got a lot of people following him at these different things. more than when he shows up where other people have been who are above him in the polls. can't win. can't win. it's either going to be the mayor of north beach or this other guy. money has it all locked. i was wrong. gillum wound up taking it. why? they didn't capture voters who weren't sensitive to polling but were sensitive to whatever was happening in that race. >> but it's a polling problem. it's a problem with the existing technology of polling, and just how tribal we've become. people are not always willing to

tell other people who they're going to vote for. and that cuts on both sides. >> right. so there is polling, which may be difficult, although i would argue that big picture polling is right in 2016, as you look at the popular vote versus the states. and then there is that versus the data. and talking to republican sources, democratic sources who are crunching the numbers, particularly the rnc, they millions and millions of dollars in what they call their voter vault, and they're identifying these voters. they feel like they have a pretty good handle on where these voters are, even in the midterms because -- they've launched a study of these voters. and they're making some quiet predictions. >> they're making a lot of people rich too. >> and what we're thinking which, you know, pretty well in the senate. not so much in the house for republicans. >> but these cottage industries

that have grown up around what happened in 2016, people are making a fortune on these midterms being paid by races to try to fill in the unknown. >> races. >> races. no, no, a lot of different races. they're bringing in money. trump. i want to play a piece of sound of him. now he is doing things that were not anticipated here. the economy is so strong, you figured they would go long on that. some candidates are. he is not, and now he is not talking about the house anymore either. he is talking about the senate. what's going on? let me play you a taste. >> i think we're going to do well in the house. but as you know, my primary focus has been on the senate. and i think we're doing really well in the senate. >> what? since when has it been? >> i think that the white house has made a calculated decision, in fact that they've made it days, if not weeks ago that the house is over, and this whole nativist campaign, this whole strategy is intended because it's the suburbanites they lose when they talk about sending

troops to the border, when they talk about birthright citizenship. i think it's a calculated decision. otherwise it's political malpractice to not be out thing the economy at every opportunity, and he hasn't been doing that. >> but he has been doing what he just said. >> right. >> for the past two weeks he has been focused almost singularly on the senate. and the reason is not rocket science. it's because the turf, the political turf for the u.s. senate is on trump turf. it's trumpland. every state where he has been. >> friendly. >> dow uow you've think it's just the turf or it is going to be the most likely result is that he's got a much better chance. >> he has the benefit of both. >> he is more popular -- talked to republicans. he is more popular than the republican candidates in these states where he is going. but it does have the inverse effect on these house republicans. as excited as they are, and they are on the republican side, to have the president come in and

boost that turnout in these red states for the republican candidate in the senate, it is hurting these republican candidates big-time in the house, because it turns them off. republicans who are working on those races don't think the president is giving the swing voters a reason to vote republican. >> this has been paul ryan's living nightmare. >> yeah. >> over the past two years, but especially compounded the past two weeks when you had birth rate citizenship and call me a nationalist and all this stuff he knows very well turns off people like me, suburban white college educated lean republican women who would be inclined to vote for republicans, but who are very turned off. >> nationalist thing doesn't work for you? >> that's not my bag, chris. that's not my bag, baby. call me crazy, i happen to know that word means. no. that's not my bag. but paul rhinos this used to be a mainstay, reliable voting bloc for republicans.

>> quiet paul ryan? >> his nationalist push might come at the expense of voters. >> but it's all calculated. >> sure. >> it's very deliberate. he knows what he is doing. and i'm convinced internally he said we can't maintain control of the house so this is what we're prepared to do. and by the way, look out if it works with regard to the senate. imagine what that means 2020 will look like, at least through the eyes of the white house. >> a tripling down. >> correct. >> he is not wrong in the basic assumption that if you go negative, you wind up benefitting it from. that's as old as the political game itself. what a great panel. thank you very much. you know, when we come back after the break, we're going to talk about why the governor's races are more important this time than ever before. usually it's an eye roll. i don't think it is this time. 46 governorships are in play. and i think they could be the key to 2020. and we're going to talk about why with somebody who understands the map very well in this. he is the head of the governors association. and the two states that matter right now. stay with us. we are a blend...

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all right. let's keep it straight. this is all about what happens in congress. can the democrats get to that magic number of 23 in the house and wind up being in control there and be a legitimate check on the president? or are republicans, and more specifically, trumpism, going to rule the day? then you get to these governors races. you have 36 coming up around the

country, and you could make the case that you should be watching this just as much. now i know that sounds a little weird, but they matter in ways big and small, especially in races like florida and georgia. to discuss, we have the chair of the democratic governor's association and the governor of washington state, jay inslee is with us right now. gov, good to be with you. >> nice to be in atlanta tonight. >> it's very nice to have you there. so gov, ordinarily, in this kind of midterm thing, the governors' race, ewatch them because they're potential power players, but we're not worried about them in the overall natural calculus. you say not so fast. why do the governors' races matter? >> they're central to democracy for three reasons. first we know this gerrymandering is a pathology. it's an illness in our body politic. it has to be remedy it. the best way to remedy it is elect democratic governors. those governors can veto

gerrymandered maps, can restore fairness in our democracy in the u.s. house of representatives. it is pivotal we elect democratic governors simply to bring fairness. look, in eight states we have a group called unrig the map. that could mean 28 seats that are rendered effectively fairer, meaning democrats have a shot and republicans which have a shot, which is all we ask for to restore balance in the u.s. house of representatives. second, this is important. i think people sort of fail to realize there is something i have discovered. for all his tweets, for all his chaos, for all his unhinged actions in the white house, donald trump cannot stop stacey abrams here in georgia from expanding health care. he cannot stop andrew gillum in florida from working to stop the red tides. i was in florida the other day, and people were really concerned about this toxic grew broew in the red tides. he can't stop that. he can't stop wisconsin from gretchen widmer from building

roads. her theme is build the damn roads. she can do that, and trump can't stop this progress in the states. this is the place that america can make progress, state by state. and we can't be retarded. and the third reason, we can be a check on the president as well. on the muslim ban, on his action to try to cut our funding for law enforcement, we can check that in court and otherwise. so. >> some cultural things also. you governors obviously have tremendous sway within your states if roe v. wade does come up, if the conservatives do get what they want, which is a repealing or a mitigation there, it falls to states. and each state will make their own real culture statement about what is going to be allowed. >> you can't count on the supreme court under the current conditions to protect your right to a woman's right of choice. my state was one of the first, if not the first to recognize this right. and neither donald trump nor the

supreme court will be able to prevent or state from recognizing this value statement of a woman's right of choice. so we will control our own destiny state by state, governor by governor. and that's why these governors races are absolutely imperative. >> in the districts -- the districts are a big deal for people. they'll think that's done on the federal level:00 and they realize it's done on the state level, which the gop certainly realized about 17 years ago when they started putting so much money and organizing into state legislature seats and wound up taking about 100 of them away from democrats, made a big difference for them. let me ask about two states in particular, georgia and florida. do you believe that you win one or both of those tonight? >> well, we're very competitive in both, spectacularly gifted candidates. stacey abrams, great leader in her legislature, kind of rescued the hope scholarship, helped get a infrastructure built they can't get a birdhouse built in d.c. and she helped get a

infrastructure package. she blocked some tax hikes for the middle class. a really talented person. andrew gillum who has been fantastic work on standing up to the nra, recognizing climate change, you know, the republicans don't even want to say the word climate change. i was in miami beach the other day where they're having to raise the streets because they're underwater. so we got two candidates offering people solutions, and that's working big-time. so i'm excited. i've been on the ground you. can't believe the enthusiasm. they're packing people in and i'm real happy to see that. >> president trump is leaking the two candidates as well in an interesting way. i want your take on it. let's play it for the audience. >> she is not qualified to be the governor of georgia. she is not qualified. >> andrew gillum is not equipped to be your governor. just not equipped. it's not for him. it's not for him. >> you know, we're looking for him talking about any other candidates in this way. not saying they stink or any way he usually talks about people,

evil, enemy, whatever not equipped. doesn't have the talent. can't handle it. do you think there is a connection to the kind of candidates that he is using that type of language with? >> it's amazing to me a republican leader can't open their mouths without saying that is a dog whistle. and we've seen that with the very first thing that dos santos said, the republican of florida was talking about monkey business against his opponent andrew gillum. and by the way, this president is the last person in the world who is going to give us advice about whose qualified and who is not. i would expect the next thing he would say was, well, that candidate isn't honest like i am. no, i don't think this is going to get him very far, and this is why we're so competitive in the races. the people are not. and i'll tell you who is not effective enough. stacey abrams is effective enough to bring health care to 500,000 people in georgia.

donald trump hasn't lifted a finger for them. and in fact he has threatened their coverage if they have preexisting conditions. i'll tell you, i've been going around the country, wisconsin, michigan, minnesota, and the republicans all have something in comment. they understand that they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar in this preexisting condition issue, because they have threatened coverage for preexisting condition. >> right. >> i talked about schuette the other day and dewine. they have preexisting conditions. and that's their record. their record is a sad preexisting condition, and they can't run or hide from it. so we're going to elect a lot of governors just on that issue. people are very concerned about health care. it unites all of us. the closest thing to our family security is our health. and i think we're in the right side of history of all of this. >> it's hard because politically they can make the case that certain of the bills would have helped protect preexisting

conditions. but the law enforcement they had the federal government join with some states to enable states to not cover preexisting conditions, they speak versus loudly as well. governor inslee, thank you so much for your perspective. >> thank you. don't forget to vote. >> appreciate it. i won't. thank you, sir. all right. many republicans have been running on the strength of the economy, but the president says that's boring, and what works better is fear. is he right? great way to start the great debate, next. ♪ let's go, tablet down. ♪ introducing the all-new corolla hatchback. toyota. let's go places.

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one of the interesting things that takes place as a narrative during an election, so much talk about the economy. so much concentration on it. the president has want you'd to believe so much. it's the best ever.

and then as it gets closer to election day, the closer it gets, the less he talks about it. the more he banks on making people afraid of what these migrants represent. half of the voters want democrats to take control of congress. 43% support republicans. so, you know, it's pretty close what's going on here right now. is he going to help or hurt with his very dramatic play? let's take that to the great debate. >> ana navarro and steve cortes. anna, i read with great interest your statement why for the first time you're voting for a nonrepublican for the governor of your home state in florida. you're going for gillum. now the president has a very specific brand of his attack on gillum. he keeps saying he is not equipp equipped. he is not up to this. and he is then doubling up with his -- and he is going to let in all of these terrible people who are coming. they're going to overrun places like florida. you're going to pay the price. do you think he is making a

savvy political play? >> look, he is making the same political play. he snaking the same political play that he made in 2016, and that won him florida in 2016. but, you know, here in florida, and i was just at an early voting place, the contrast is so great, right? there is a campaign that is being run on fear, fearmongering, division, hostility, gloom and doom, the end of the world is coming, the alien invasion is coming. build the wall. despite the fact that we are a peninsula surrounded by water on three sides. and on the other side, you've got happy warriors trying to inspire, trying to unite, trying to offer ideas, talking about happy things and a brighter future. that's the choice in front of florida right now. i don't know how it's going to end up. i hope floridians reject the politics of division.

i hope they reject the lies, the demagoguery, the talk that andrew gillum is going to turn florida into venezuela, which could not be a bigger lie and a cheap eing of that the venezuelan people are living through under the hands of murderous dictator who kills and beats his political foes. >> steve, why aren't you a happy warrior? >> i am a very happy warrior. and listen, that employment report we got this past friday, chris, i worked on wall street over t past two decades, i can't recall a report that robust at least since the 1990s. this country is growing like we haven't grown since the '80s and '90s. to me it's not a matter of either talk than or talk about immigration and the border. why can't it be both sinatra be both and -- >> not for president. >> i think it should be both. they are related too. one of the reasons i believe firmly that working class wages have stag nated in the past and

are now accelerating, blue collar wages are rising faster. blue collar is doing better. hillary clint hispanics are doing better than whites. we're not flooding this country with a million illegal workers a year. it's not just bad economic security policy, it's bad economic policy. getting control of our borders is very much linked to our economic prosperity. >> look, you can make an economic case, and a lot of you candidates are, but not the president. he believes something different is compelling. i really think we've got give it some air, because he is making a very different ploy and he is the head of your party. here is the way he described why he is not talking about the economy. >> they all say speak about the economy, speak about the economy. well we have the greatest economy in the history of our country. but sometimes it's not as exciting to talk about the economy, right? >> see, now by exciting -- >> that's right.

>> what he means, anna, is it doesn't motive people as much as fear. >> it does not gin people up. it does not fill people with angst and distress and drive them to the polls because they're scared of what's going to happen next. it's amazing how transparent donald trump is in some of these moments when he tells us, oh, this bomb stuff has distracted us from talking about politics. this economy stuff is boring. look, it's perplexing that he doesn't go out there and say i've given you two supreme court justices. we passed a tax reform bill. the economy is good. promises made, promises kept. he's got a positive message to run on if that's what he wanted, but he has clearly made a choice. and the choice is scare the bejesus out of voters because that's going to drive them in droves to the polls, and it's a much more effective tactic. >> if you actually watch his rallies and don't gesturery

pick, you'll see he absolutely talks about the economic growth message. i think when he said it's boring, he was being funny. the president is a very funny guy. he knows it's not boring. >> right after he said, that he moves on and talked about the migrants. >> i believe both are going to talk about us. by the way, it's not fearmongering to talk about the need for real border control. >> that's not what he says. >> we have 10s of millions, depending on what study you read, of illegal aliens residing here. that's not okay. the president was crystal clear than as a candidate in 2016. it is clearly part of his mandate. and the democrats like gillum -- >> but being here illegally doesn't make you a murder. it doesn't make you a gang banger. >> certainly not. >> and that's how he talks about these people in the main, and it's inaccurate, and it's ugly, and we know why he is doing it. >>, no no. but there are some who are, chris. >> some, yes. >> and what do democrats want to do, people like gillum? he wants to eliminate i.c.e.

he wants to make florida a sanctuary state. he wants to bring san francisco values to florida. and that won't work. i think it's one of the reasons he will lose. politically correct can be deadly. >> first of all -- >> go ahead, make your point, make your point. >> first of all, andrew gillum does not want to eliminate i.c.e. this is an issue i talked to him about. it is a republican talking point. i think he would like to see i.c.e. change, and i think he would like the focus to be on deporting criminals. but listen, for the last ten days we have seen a president that has lied about this caravan, said this caravan is full of middle easterners, code for terrorist. is sending thousands and thousands of unnecessary troops to a border when a caravan is almost a thousand miles away. has put out a racist ad demonizing immigrants over and over again. is talking about eliminating birthright citizenship. it does not take a genius to figure out what he is doing is

just milking the hell out of the immigration issue as a wedge issue, rising up racism, rising up distress and angst over the invasion the brown people coming from the south. god help us! >> listen, if america were a white nation, and we refused to have immigrants who were brown, then you would be on to something, but that's not the case. we ra multiracial, multi-ethnic amazing democracy. [ overlapping dialog ] >> demonizing people are not about people that came to the canadian border. >> and we have a right to defend our borders, and we have a right to decide who should come in, not based on color, based on their skills, on their love of our values, of our constitution. >> that's all fine. >> that's what trump wants. and we haven't had that, chris. here is the thing. we have tolerated, if not encouraged illegal immigration for decades because it worked for elites. it worked for democratic elites

who wanted votes. it worked for republican elites who wanted cheap labor. >> you don't go after those people because they're your buddies. so you demonize the workers. >> listen, i'm saying that both sides, republicans and democrats were to blame. the president saw this, and stepped into that gap in 2016 and said we are going to get control of immigration in this country. it doesn't make sense -- >> he can do that, and he doesn't have to talk about these people. if you really wanted to round all these people up and deal with sanctuary cities, put a ton more into ice enforcement and then you wouldn't vu to use the local authorities the way you do. >> i'm all for that. >> he is playing a different game. he is playing a game that goes to the demagoguery. that's okay. that's why have i you here. but i got to go so, hurry up. >> you come from the presup presupposition that he is racist. >> no i don't. don't cheapen the logic of what he does. just follow what he says when he says it, and why he says it, make your own judgment. i'll never have to -- >> i think he is racist.

he calls mexicans criminals. >> what color they are, no matter. >> he called haiti he has said so many racist things. >> when you don't want to talk policy, you call him a race arist. he is a scarlet r now. >> we got to go. we'll take it up after the election. >> mexicans are racists and criminals and rapists. el salvador and haiti are shitholes. he is a racist pig. >> he is the worst one ever because minorities are thriving under his leadership. >> i don't have time to list all the things that bother about what he says about authorities. >> neither do i. >> steve, thank you for coming on to make the case. ana, as always, thank you very much. all right. so one of the things you can take away from that that is just absolutely true is the president could be making a different case than the one he is making, okay? but he doesn't choose to do that, and he could pick polls

that say good things about him. but then he doesn't choose to do that. instead he wound up making something up today. why? we're going to talk to somebody who is in a very big race in the middle of the senate. he is running for senate and he is endorsed by the president. you're going to talk to mr. james. he is in a big race. see going to make the case for the president and himself, next. the falsies mascara from maybelline new york. corner-to-corner volume. no gaps. for false lash glam that challenges fake. never fake, always falsies. the falsies mascara. only from maybelline new york.

all right. this morning the president tweeted new fox poll shows 40% approval rating by african americans for president trump, a record for republicans. thank you, great honor. also, great exaggeration. to be clear, there is no such fox poll. it seems this is a reference to this very questionable outlet that was featured in a fox news segment earlier in the day. let's bring in john james. he is michigan's republican senate nominee. welcome to "primetime." good luck to you and thank you for being on the show, james. >> hey, chris, thanks for having me on. i really appreciate it. >> this is a little fact getting

in the way. you're not just playing counsel to the president tonight. he is talking about a rasmussen tracking poll. we don't use them. they're not seen as a reputable outfit. he said it was fox. he was wrong. the goal gallup poll has him about 13%. do you believe his approval among blacks is near 40%? >> i can only speak for the people i'm talking with in the state of michigan. to be honest with you, there are folks who love him and folks who hate him in michigan. but when guy to a naacp dinner, i get pulled aside, and people are saying that they're excited to finally have a conservative to vote for. i went to a pistons game, and i was pulled aside by a guy, an african american in the street who was selling tickets who said he was vote sforg ming for me. i think people are excited to have somebody in experience both in combat and in business bringing people together who accomplish missions. >> yes. thank you for your service. mr. james is a veteran. look, you are not a hard-core

trumper. correct me if you want, be you cast yourself as independent. i did some good research on what you say and what you don't. you'd never call yourself a nationalist. you'd say you love your country. you'd say you'd put your blood on the line for your country, but you wouldn't call yourself a nationalist. you wouldn't call the media an enemy. how do you support the president and not call out that kind of talk? >> i recognize and realize that this race for me and for the state of michigan is not about the president. the only two people on this ballot of concern is me and senator stabenow. and finally getting somebody who can -- i'm not here to speak for the president. i'm not here to speak for african americans. i'm here to speak for myself. and people are excited here because i don't have a black and white message. i have a red, white, and blue message. my priorities are god and country, in that order. and i am capable of disagreeing with the president without attacking him and agreeing with him without worshipping him. i believe that's the balance we need on the floor of the u.s. senate, to make sure that congress is operating as a separate, distinct and equally

powerful branch of government to provide check and balance, not all check. we need balance on the floor of the senate, and have i the leadership ability to make sure i'm working with anyone who can get resource backs to the state. and that's what my focus is on, on the state of michigan. >> fair point that's it not red or blue, should it be red, white, and blue. respect the line, respect the idea, but don't you think the constituent there's, especially those who support stabenow, one of the reasons they support her is they believe that she'll stand up to the president of the united states and say don't say you're a nationalist on your watch. that's not what we're about here. we're not about that ugly talk about immigrants. we're not about that. you can secure the border and not say that you have an invading horde of demons coming your way. would you do the same? >>ly stand up to the president when i need to defend the constitution of the united states and the interests of the state of michigan. i will work with the president and stand with the president when it comes to defending our constitution and protecting michigan. look, i'm an independent thinker, and i love everyone,

and i really loved your segment when you brought up thomas merton and you talk about kipling and we talk about our fathers and recognizing we need to have more compassion. we need to have more inclusivity of thought. i'm bring my passion to bear of my understanding of the military and the understanding of the busy to make sure all michig michiganders can have their piece of the dream. >> they think somebody is going to kill them. they think somebody is going to rape somebody. they think they're coming in here to do terrible things. you got militias running down to the border. move them are going to come armed, and they're going to come ready to do do what they see as defending the country. what do you say to those people? >> i say that legal immigration is an economic and moral imperative for this nation, and that is where career politicians have failed all americans in not getting common sense constitutional compassionate immigration reform done. well must secure our borders,

but we have to consider that folks who are coming up here for a better life we need to also consider the people who are here who are also looking for a better life. we need people who will get things done for michigan and for the country. and senator stabenow has been in a position to do something about this for 20 years in washington. and 18 years as a senator. we cannot wait six more years to get these solutions. we need to get them now. and i'm willing to work with anyone and everyone to get balance and to get effectiveness back in washington to benefit the country and the state of michigan. >> john james, you're in a tough race. good luck to you. thank you for coming on the show. we appreciate it. >> it's an honor, sir. thank you. >> be well. you heard something i just mentioned there, about whose heading down to the border, supposedly in the name of defending this country. could there be that it is an invasion coming? but it's not those coming towards the boarder from the south. it's those who are moving down from the north. what do you make of these

militias? should we be concerned? next.

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jew may not be buying the talk from the president about fear and loathing and all these monsters in our midst coming from the southern border, but a lot of people believe it. there is a militia group called the texas minute men. here headed to the mexican border awaiting the arrival of the migrant caravan. you have about 200 to 250 armed civilians. they say they want to help patrol the border after trump warned ever an invasion. this isn't a new phenomenon. militia members flock to the border on and off. we saw it in the 2014 immigration crisis. caused headaches for the real border patrol. that year border patrol agents mistakenly fired at tuma lish a members.

no one was hurt, thank god. let's bring in d. lemon. look, they hear the talk, they're afraid and they want to go down there and it's complicated. >> they're afraid, a group of guys with guns are afraid of people with flip-flops and -- >> that's not what they think they are. they think they're coming, they're invading. they're coming in, a lot of killers, terrorists, gang members. they're coming. >> first of all, let's be honest. that's not true. there are elements -- there are criminal elements in all groups, right? >> yes. >> and, of course, we want people to abide by the laws of this country, but we are expecting people -- are we expecting them to be better than the folks who are already here? because people who are here in america already, people born in america actually commit most of the crime. immigrants don't usually commit as much crime -- >> illegal immigrants, illegal immigrants especially because they want to stay low on the radar. >> why do you need that? especially you just said in 2014 that border patrol agents actually shot at these militia members. >> by mistake.

>> by mistake. can you imagine just any group of people, just showing up, and then put those people in different ethnicities, make them all white. what do you think the reaction is in make them all hispanic or muslim, what do you think the reaction would be? make them all african-american. you see a whole group of people, mostly men -- i may be generalizing here, but imagine that. how do you think people would react to that, people openly carrying guns at our border. a >> the more white they would be be -- don't come on my land. you don't represent me. you have an absence from cpb, border patrol, you don't hear anything from the military. they're not asking for any help. the question is what can you do? here's my concern. would you go down there -- >> the president to stop with the rhetoric. >> that we can do in a heartbeat. you go do you think to the border, you see people coming across illegally, what are you going to do?

you can call cbp. what do you don't want to do that, you don't want to approach them? you have no color of authority. you can't touch that person, you can't do anything to that person. what if you get upset and they did like this and you're sitting there with a weapon. i'm worried about these scenarios. >> they shouldn't be there. if you actually respect law enforcement and you're worried, i i would imagine the people going militia members are mostly conservative. if you respect law enforcement the way you profess, you allow them to do their job. you don't step in, you don't do their job, you don't put yourself and other people in harms way. the law enforcement professionals, the people whose job it is to protect the border are going to do a good enough job. you don't think thousands of members of the military don't know what they're doing and can handle themselves? that's a problem. >> 100%. how are you going to take it on tonight? >> we're going tho talk about that. we're going to talk about georgia and what kemp is saying now, talking about hack being the system or whatever. unfounded claims, has showed no

evidence. >> i saw the democrat -- the head of the party was on with anderson. >> right. >> and said it's a made-up story. there is no proof. we want them to give us proof. they won't talk to us. they did nothing. >> if you're saying that someone had the ability to hack your system, you're the secretary of state. isn't that your job? but it's coy phillnflict, but i that your job to protect the system? is he saying he's not doing his job? >> he's saying he doesn't want to talk about voter suppression. >> you can't win unless you come up with a bogus claim? >> it's a conflict. anyway, he's doing so well, i'm going to end my show so that he can keep going in georgia, as don is telling you, the secretary of state who is also the republican candidate for governor is now accusing the democrats. we're not making this up. this is a real thing that someone who is running for office there is saying belies the integrity of the system. is there any proof? and isn't this a conflict of interest? the answer to that is yes. stay with us. (vo) this is not a video game.

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hello, everyone. yes, it is sunday night. don't adjust your sets. this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. we are less than a day and a half away from the first polls opening on election day. and i know you've heard a lot of people saying this. but the truth is, this could be the most important midterms of our life times. if you thought things could get better, if you thought the rhetoric could get toned down, well, nobody really thought that that would happen. and it didn't. so, what president trump has doubled down on his strategy of fear mongering and trying to divide us, it's beginning to sound, well, like even he has some doubts about the strategy, that strategy working.