people will progressively recognize and agree with the fact that we are doing our best for the country and we are serving the country for the future. >> mr. president, a pleasure for to us have you. thank you so much. >> thank you very much. was my pleasure. thank you very much. >> pleasure. >> and that is is it for this special edition of gps here in paris. thank you for being part of my program today. i will see you next week. i'm brian stelter and this is reliable sources. our look at the story behind the story of how the media really works, how the news gets made, and how all of us can make it better. this hour, democrats making huge gains on election day. but the election still isn't over yet. every day that passes the results are better for the dems.

does the press underplay the blue wave? we'll talk about that. plus, a major scandal in the news world. houston chronicle forced to retract multiple stories from a reporter who is believed to have been making up source ofs. ha did the chronicle do about it? we'll talk to the paper's top d editor. and we'll talk to tucker about what happened at i had home and why police are now investigating. lots to get to, but first president trump's attempts to distract from various negative stories in the news. not the least of which were the results of the midterms and the gop's losses in the house. what did he do the next day? he fired his attorney general and he kicked jim acosta out of the white house. i'm sure you've heard by now that on wednesday night cn,'s chief white house correspondent tried to show up for his 8:00 p.m. live shot waends told was n -- and he was told he was not allowed in the white house

property. his press pass has been suspend until further notice. this is not about jim acosta. this is about the white house trying to control news coverage by blacklisting certain reporters. ultimately, it's about freedom the press. the question now is whose credentials could be revoked next? >> as far as i'm concerned, i haven't made that decision. but it could be others also. >> so, look, cnn's in the thick of this story and trump's insulting acosta, insutting alty phillips on friday and others, they're on record saying trump's attacks against the media are disturbingly unamerican. that's the official word from cnn. but i want to try to approach this as dispassionately as we can. right now it's about cnn but nbc or "the new york times" or other outlets could be next. so i want to ask if there's a legal case here, could cnn end up suing in order to get acosta's press pass reinstated?

will the white house take away other press passes? >> and what's going to happen next here? there's a lot to talk about. but let me start with the run, the only, sam dondalsaldson. you know him sometimes shouting questions at the white house. thanks for joining me. >> glad to be here, brian. >> your view first and foremost of what the white house did this week to punish jim acosta. >> well, the president's order to revoke his credentials is not only wrong and you fair, it's dangerous for the press as a whole. we all saw what happened at the news conference. there's a group of people moving through mexico toward our border described by people on the scene, observers who are neutral as made up of men, women, and children seeking asylum from persecution and from hardship. well, the president has character rides them as a caravan composed of many terrorists wanting to invated united states. he sent thousand of troops to the board we are orders to repel them by force if necessary.

so acosta asked him why he called it a caravan at the news conference. the president replied, that's my opinion. and acosta tried to press him on what basis, what evidence he used to form that opinion. and instead of answering, president trump lashed out with a vicious personal attack on acosta. and then ordered his press credentials revoked. now, if that order isn't reversed by the courts, what reporter, what news organization would risk the retaliation of the white house by asking questions or publishing stories that the president doesn't like? the courts must reverse that order and i'm sure they will. >> sam, i know that you've fwhp tou -- been in touch with jim over the years. he looks up to you as a white house correspondent. have you all spoken this week? >> no, we haven't spoken but i e-mailed him and said keep it up, don't worry about the vicious attacks on you by anybody and the threats and all of this. you're performing in the best appearance of a reporter, you're doing your job properly.

and it's a badge of merit. >> the white house says this credential was revoked because he placed his hands on a white house intern. the video shows that acosta did not mistreat the intern but that's the white house spin, that's the excuse to revoke the prix credential. do you think they'll come up with other excuse to revoke other credentials and this will become a deepening crisis? >> they better tripe because the constitution f constitution forbids the press's right to freedom of speech. and what president trump has done having no law, as the amendment for bids to fall back on, he's done it through the backdoor. if he refuses to allow a reporter to report, if he refuses to allow an organization like cnn to sbrekt e seleelect

reporter but can he select it, then what is freedom of the press in the president does not understand a lot of things about our constitution, but i expect and i believe the courts will instruct him. >> sam, stay with me, if you can. i want to open this up to a couple other guests, but first let me tell the viewers at home the latest on what's going on. we can show you the video from wednesday night when acosta arrived at the white house, when he was told his secret service credential was being taken away he got out his iphone and recorded it so there was a roared of wh record of what happened. that was on wednesday night. yes, jim is reporting in paris, he's still getting scoops. you don't have to be at the white house physically in order to get scoops about the white house. but he remains on the blacklist which means he's not able to attend official white house events, he's not in a position to ask questions of the trump administration. all of cnn's other reporters and producers they still have access but not acosta. so let's get to two other

guests, frank and floyd. floyd, i want to ask you about the legal consequences in a moment. frank, there are a lot of trump supporters who look at accost and his grandstanding. they say he's a showboat, a loud mouth they say he should have his press pass revoked. what's your response to that? >> absolutely not. they're absolutely wrong. sam donaldson, i was there when sam was at the white house, he was all those things and with all due respect he didn't have his press pass revoked. what i would say to trump supporters and anyone who even suggests this, imagine now it's some years from now and there's a very liberal president. and the very liberal president doesn't like being berated by the personal news because they're inconvenient and disrespectful. that's not how this works. president of the united states refer to the white house as the

people's houses. the press corps, as rowdy did i and imperfect it as it have represent the people. and anybody who runs for the united states should know that and welcome that. as unpleasant and imperfect as it is all. >> but a lot of conservative commentators say he crosses a line by expressing his own point of view or by trying to challenge the president in inappropriate ways. do you think that's a fair critique at all? >> i think it's a critique if you want to critique different styles of coverage, fair enough. it's not a critique to determine who should have a pass or not. that's not how it's been done, it's not how it will be done. jim in the exchange the other dade mat day made a flat out statement saying this isn't an invasion. there are many reporters who say your job is not to make a declarative statement, it's to ask questions of the president to the me and anybody who's thoughtful about this, that's stylistics and where do drey the line on that? i'm sure you'll be talk about

this with floyd. there are from says for revoke someone's secret service pass, and it is not the whim or the idea or the opinion of the president. i was speaking to someone who's knowledgeable about this just yesterday who basically said i want acosta gone. right. the fact that the president of the united states wants acosta gone is not enough and it's not grounded on anything and it does not recognize process for what would be a very serious move to withdraw someone's press pass. >> so with all that in mind, floyd, does cnn have grounds to sue over this? >> i think it's a really strong lawsuit. i mean, there was a case in washington of robert chersherren the '70s where his pass was revoked. he went to court and the court of of appeals for the district of columbia said before that happens you have to have notice, you have to have a chance to respond, and you have to have a

written opinion by the white house as to what it's doing and why so the courts can kpam exami -- examine it. we've had none of those things. >> but should cnn sue? because that would be quite an escalation. >> i can understand cnn being reluctant to sue because the president keeps saying cnn is the enemy of me and cnn might have some reluctance to have a lawsuit titled cnn versus donald trump. that said, yes, i think they should sue. and if it's not about acosta, this is going to happen again. i mean, i think -- >> that's my belief. >> frank setting forth the dangers as a introductory way of saying it's likely to happen again. so whether it's cnn suing or the next company suing, someone's going to have to bring a lawsuit and whoever does is going to win unless there's some sort of

reason. i mean, if the white house position is he choked or touched this woman, that's a very good reason. it seems to be untrue. but that's the sort of reason that can be sustained in the courts. >> sam, back you to in a second. frank, remind us about a previous lawsuit that cnn was involved in with the white house. cnn had to sue its way into the white house press pool, right? >> once upon a time when cnn was a start-up cable operation. >> yeah. >> the white house didn't want to recognize if the sam remembers this because we were there together. it was just before i went there. and cnn sued its way into the so-called press pool, that small group of people who are on air force one traveling with the president or in the oval office where there is a single representative from each, you know, print, magazines at the time, broadcasts at the time and cnn was excluded from that. so it resorted to the courts. and the courts said the you are a legitimate news organization, you have a legitimate right in.

cnn may have to do this again. but they may not be alone. yo you heard the president say i make kick some other people out there. every other news organization, including fox news, by the way, which has been on the news side rather supportive of this is going to see where it is. the president is in an untenable position here, and unfortunately for him, as we've heard so many other times on so many other things, there are so many other things to be talking about. >> right. >> he chooses to focus on this and bring this, you know, firestorm down upon himself. >> that's my last question. sam, back to you on that. on one level doesn't the president want this fight? he wants a media fight, especially in the wake of his losses in the midterms? i think it was notable cnn did not cover this a lot on tv this week. we didn't try to play into it and take the bait, but we do have to be sensitive to this issue of distraction, don't we? >> we do. i hope i'm not mistaken but it's my understanding that cnn and acosta have sued, that there will be a court hearing on tuesday on this very -- >> not that i know. >> that we've been discussing.

>> not that i know of. >> i've been told that because i've been asked to give an affidavit which i prepared to be submitted to the court. you know, harry truman had it right. he had advice for all sorts of public officials, anda that is when they heard things they didn't like, uncomfortable questions, remember this, he said. if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. >> it sometimes is that simple, isn't it? for any president, for any politician. >> well, the president -- the president seems to believe that if he wants to doing some, it should be done. constitution aside, congress aside, certainly other than his base the american people aside. and it doesn't work that way. and he's not going to get away with it. >> sam, how is this going to end? how do you see this period in history ending? >> i think it ends with a change in -- i hope the president's attitude. i believe in forgiveness and redemption of sin. but, it's going to change

because he and people who enable him to do what he's trying to do and has done so far are not going to be able to prevail. his small base, and i think they're a minority, who believe if the nazis and protesters are on both sides, there are good people on both sides, his small base is not going to run this country. they don't now and they never will. >> thanks for being here. floyd, thank you to you as well. great to see you. frank, stick around. we'll take a quick break here and then bring in one of the reporters that trump called out by name this week. april ryan of cnn and american urban haid rad urban radio mnetworks. april's coming up right after this. but some give their clients cookie cutter portfolios. fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. some only call when they have something to sell.

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one venrecent exchange between president and a reporter illustrates just how nasty the interactions have been. >> on the campaign trail you called yourself a nationalist. some people saw that as emboldening white nationalist. now other people are saying -- >> i don't know why you say that. that's such a racist question. >> there are some people that say the republican party is supporting white nationalist party because of your rhetoric. what do you make of that? >> that's such a racist question. >> it wasn't a racist question, it was a question about racism. let's talk to april ryan, she's a cnn analyst and the white house worpt for american urban radio networks. i don't want to play the sound, but the president called you a very nasty loser this week. do you think he was just having a bad day or do you think there's a racial component to this? >> it's personal. the president made a personal

attack. and, you know, there's not a coincidence that three african american women within a span of two or three days were singled out and targeted so harshly. you know, the president has got after other reporters, that's true, and he's gone after others. but when it comes to black women, it's very personal. i mean, i think back about how he went after frederica wilson when sergeant la david johnson died along other valeant soldiers. i think about how he continues to go after congresswoman maxine waters saying low iq and other things. and then the words he used against me to place the target on her head by saying her question was racist, no, it wasn't, it was a legitimate question. and 2011 to say ththen to say t

lipped asked a stupid question trying to say she's stupid, which she's not, it's very personal. he goes in on personal attacks and, yes, i do believe black women. i will say it's racial. i will say that. >> let me take a look at that exchange from abby. we wanted to take a look at it from a different angle. here's how it went down. >> did you ask matthew whitaker to be involved in the russia probe. >> that's up to him. >> do you want him to rein in robert mueller? >> what a stupid question that is. what a stupid question. but you ask a lot of stupid questions. >> you know, just a very uncomfortable situation for any reporter when you watch that happen. >> and finger in the face. >> the context here is "newsroom" diversity is a problem across the press corps. there's not enough female correspondents or especially african american or other correspondents. when he focuses his ire on

people like you, it really stands out and there's no more denying this is a problem he has. >> yeah, it's a problem. and i want to go back to a tweet that i received yesterday from former white house press secretary mike mccurry. he was there, he was my first press secretary i've ever covered under bill clinton in 1997. and he said, you know, i tangled with april ryan quite a bit. but one thing i did learn from her questions is more about issues of race and poverty. and those questions, when we ask questions, it's real, it's legitimate, it's about people, it's not about us. and this president has made it about us instead of about the american people. the issues that are on the table for all america. and, you know, it's interesting low pressuring remembering back what the president said about me friday, i'm going to say this i'm a winner because at that first press conference the president had he thought i was so much of a winner and had enough gravitas

to be able to pull together a meeting between him and the congressional black caucus when his staff couldn't. >> he asked you do it. >> he sure did and it's on tape and it wasn't a doctored tape. and i was so much of a winner that this administration pulled me in for a meeting with first son-in-law jared kushner on issues of prison reform and put me on a phone call with him because of my winning, okay. because i have that kind of gravitas and understand what's going on in the black community. so -- and i can go on and on. and i wrote a book with this. you know, i wrote a book about the reason why this administration comes after me. you know, i'm not perceived to be their base and they want to use me as an example. but this has gotten personal for no reason. and whatever the disdain they have about me or the issues i ask, it's on them. this is about america. >> are you concerned they may try to suspend your press pass

next? because when he races dollars the issue he broit yught you up of the blue with no reason at all. >> i was on the president's mind and i wasn't even there. it's interesting, they may try -- why would they try to suspend my press pass? i understand that they've been angry with me more so since i asked the question in january about mr. president, are you a racist? and there was a reason to are that because of the alleged s-hole comments he was making. and then after charlotte it's been everything else. it didn't just come out of the air. so they have been angry with me about that since then. and then that the last press con conference, the day after the midterm election, there were issues and videos and comments and reports about voter irregularities in various states. i threw the question out in that pregnant pause moment when he finished answering a question and going to another reporter, i said, mr. president, what about voter suppression? and he responded and therefore i

stood up out of respect thinking he was going to do an interchange with me. then he tells me, he sees who it is and tells me to sit down vehemently with the venom of disdain, with disdain towards me. and i sat down, but then he started saying, oh area you k, voter suppression for you, those cnn polls. this was all off mike. my reporter colleagues heard me. i'm talking about voter suppression in florida, voter suppression in georgia, north dakota, texas, and other states. he proceeded sit down, sit down. that was a legitimate question. thankfully another reporter from npr, another african american followed up and he was very flip with her about voter suppression as he's claiming voter fraud is happening. and there are more cases of voter suppression than voter fraud. >> so many more. >> real issues. if they want to suspend my pass over that, it's not -- it's not

logical. it's not lath zblogical. >> april, thank you so much. >> yeah. thank you. >> i agree with you. i'm up against a break, but i want to show everybody smling some -- something from two years ago. we're talking about one president revoking one reporters press. well, he i was promised he with not to do that. this was a phone call i had with the president. back then he was not allowing certain reporters and news outlets to go to his rallies. he wouldn't let "the washington post" in, buzz feed in and other outlets. so i got on the phone with the now president. are you going to revoke krooe credentials. >> all i want to do is be treated fairly. >> if you're elected will you try to revoke the press credentials at the white house? >> it's a different thing. in my case i'm a person running for office. i read that's large arenas so i have an option. when i'm representing the united states i wouldn't do that.

>> okay. >> but i would let people know if somebody's untruthful. >> so i want you to keep that in mind going forward he was very clear two years ago, he would not strip credentials from white house reporters. another broken promise from the president. quick break here, more on reliable sorts, -- sources. disturbing video from tucker's home and the late ef latest from the d.c. police right after this break. ate ef latest from the d.c. police right after this break. te ef latest from the d.c. police right after this break. e ef latest from the d.c. police right after this break. ef latest from the d.c. police right after this break. ef latest from the d.c. police right after this break. f latest from the d.c. police right after this break. latest from the d.c. police right after this break. latest from the d.c. police right after this break. ♪

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so, let's talk about conference calls. there's always a certain amount of fumbling. a lot of times it doesn't work. we have problems. comcast business goes beyond fast. by letting you make and receive calls from any device using your business line. and conference calls you can join without any dial-ins or pins. (phone) there are currently 3 members in this conference. i like that. i like that too. i would use that in a heartbeat. get started with innovative voice solutions for a low price when you get fast, reliable internet. comcast business. beyond fast. welcome back to reliable sources. this week a man in arkansas was arrested and charged with making harassing phone calls to cnn. even allegedly calling in death

threats. msnbc received calls as well. mean while, at tucker carlson's home, antifascists, antifa chanted threats, knocked on the door, made a commotion. here's the police report that resulted. coralson wasn't ho carlson wasn't home but his wife was. she hid in the pantry until police arrived. i think a lot of what tucker says is harmful to the country. but it is inappropriate and unacceptable for protesters to show up at his own home to make him feel threatened where he lives. so i asked neil patel, that's carlson's friend and cofounder of the daily collar, what exactly this experience was like for tucker. >> tucker was at his show prepping for his show, i think one of the things that's most troubling about this is that everyone knows when tucker's show's on they target his house and family when they knew he wouldn't be there.

so he's sitting there and all the sudden he starts getting text from people there's some problem at your house. he was pretty worried and shocked. you don't expect to hear that there's a mob sitting in front of your house. >> do we know anything more about what happened to the home? >> well, his wife susie was home alone. luckily his kids weren't there. but size decide whe was there a to good in the kitchen and she hears this giant commotion and people start throwing themselves on the door to the point where the door cracked. she thought there was many kind of home invasion or something going on and she took off and hid in a closet or pantry and call the police. >> they say some of the protesters did break the law by defacing private property. the police are investigating and as of this morning they say it's an open investigation. so i asked neil what his message would be to to these protesters and activists. here's why he said it's unfair to call this a protest in the first place. >> let me just point out one thing.

i don't think it's fair to call this a protest because if you look at what they were saying, they're saying we will fight, we know where you sleep at night. brian, what does that mean to you if someone said that to you? we will fight, we know where you sleep at night. >> to me, that's a very clear threat. >> that's a threat, not a protest. they're trying to continue to tim date not just him, but even worse his wife and children. i think it's not legitimate to call that a protest. there are many ways you can protest, many legitimate ways you can protest. this is an act of terrorism. >> he's the counterargument. what they say they were trying to do is make tucker carlson's family feel some of the terror that let's say kids separated at the border feel. that's the argument, i don't agree with it, but what's the counter? >> what tucker does is gets up and talks for a living. so if someone wants to debate tucker they can get up and give a different viewpoint. he has a debate on his show every night. all of that is legitimate. going and targeting somebody's

family and terror rising thizin because you disagree with their dad's or husband's viewpoint is crazy. >> david, in the reaction to this fox news said the incident was obviously reprehensible, the network went on to say in this statement when we can show you, quote, we as a nation have become far too intolerant of different points of view. recent events across our country clearly highlight the need for a more civil, respectful, and inclusive national conversation. those of us in the media and in politics bear a special obligation to all americans to find common ground. your reaction? >> i totally agree with it. i wish fox actually acted on that instead of rachetting tche the polarization of shows, instead of a confirmation of democracy, instead of saying i disagree with you, often you

have people going you're an idiot, you're a moron. again, i totally agree. i'm delighted that one thing we can all agree on in the press is that what happened at tucker carlson's house is wrong. but tucker carlson is also one of those people who does a show that mocks, that taunts, that ridicules some of the guests when he argues with them, when he debates with them. there's another way to debate that's nicer. i'm not saying in any way that justifies it, please, don't misunderstand me. but we in the media have a responsibility. and part of this, brian, is technology. facebook loves emotional visceral arguments. it generates more troaffic for them. >> yes. >> and then on the other hand you have president trump attacking the president, ratcheting up the dialogue, using tactics of 1930s europe to not just dehumanize members of the press, but to give people who are susceptible to such

messages perhaps license to act on that. you have this terrible boiling situation. you know we call it the conversation of democracy. it's more like gangs in an alley armed with clubs swinging at each other calling each other names. that's where our discourse is today. and we all have to bring it down. we can't control the president, obviously he's going more in that direction. but every time one of us writes a story and we turn the lang with -- language up higher, we say this is a disgrace were we need to bring did down on our end too. but we're being driven by social media where that gets you traffic and clicks. >> did we have these kinds of problems, these kinds of threats, protests, you know, a decade ago? >> not like this. i mean, i think we've -- >> it's getting worse.

>> we're in a place, as david says, the rhetoric has been turned up, the heat's been turned up, it's been turned up in the political world, we see that with the president all the time and others and in the media world. it's lots of talk radio and television. at times this network included where we have people screaming at one another, accusing one another, demonizing one another. >> on the far left look at what happened with tucker's house. on the far left there are people who are convinced he's a racist. >> and showed up and banging on the door and driving his wife into a pantry in fear is not the way to go. i fear that there's going to be more of this. and there's going to be more of this across the board. if anybody listened to ted cruz's victory speech, he called for a more civil dialogue and civil discourse. politicians, ted cruz included, and media, this network, fox, others included, need to take david's comments and ted cruz's comments to heart because people do listen and people are triggered by these things. and we are in danger of hearing

much, much more. we have a responsibility to convene smart, tough, provocative, hard-edge debate and discussion. fine. but it also needs to be within the realms of civil discourse and we can lead the way on that and should. >> all right. stand by both of you. a quick break here and then the midterms. the democrats making major gains. in fact, they're stacking up every day. did the media initially miss the strength of the blue wave? that's next. i know i can be challenging... but i'm deeper than what you see.

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did the news media underappreciate the strength of the blue wave in the house on tuesday night? five days later it sure looks that way. back on tuesday wave spotters said the midterms were not deliver the huge repunation of president trump that the republicans wanted to deliver. there was lots of talk about the red wall. this was the day after the narrative on fox news. watch. >> it was not the blue wave that a lot of people predicted. >> with regard to the blue wave, i feel more like i got purple rain. >> that's a good line, right,a and it reflects the democrats disappointment of beto o'rourke coming authority in texas and the challenges in georgia and florida. but the election still isn't over. votes are still being counted in arizona, california, and other states and recounts are taking place. so it now appears the democrats will pick up at least 35 seats in the house. i mean, here's the map already. they're already far ahead of the 23 they needed in the house. day by day "the washington post"

notes the outlook for democrats in the house has improved. the senate is a very different story. there was no blue wave in the senate. we can debate how the governor's race has performed. but in the housing soe somethin happened. we didn't know it on tuesday night. here's tuesday night versus saturday night. >> this is heartbreaking, though. it's heartbreaking. it's not a blue wave but it's still a blue war. in the end this blue wave was actually bigger and it bluer than actually it looked like at first. >> he's right. that's the story now, it's becoming more true every day. think about it this way. in 2006 the last time a republican president faced a midterm referendum, the democrats picked up 31 house seats. george w. bush came out the next day and said it was a thumping. >> look, this is a close election. if you look at race by race, it was close. the cumulative effect was not to close, it was a thumping. >> this year the democrats are

going to pick up at least 30 seats, likely 35 or more. sorry, they've already picked up 30 seats. likely to end up picking up 35 or more. president trump spun the results, though, as a big win for his party. it was nonsense, but do people really know what the real results were? let's bring back frank and david. i wonder, frank, if had is about resource allocation. we spend so much time and so much focus on tuesday night, but we're still counting votes in parts of the country. it's kind of like this is a slow-rolling midterm cycle and the narrative of tuesday night is not the narrative now. >> sometimes covering the news in realtime is treacherous, dangerous for your health. covering in realtime you follow the poll closings. you start in the east, florida, georgia, some of these key races where was tight but not to tight and at the end of the day the democrats didn't burst out, at least not at the gubernatorial and senate race. that took time. then it rolled across the country and some of these races still being counted. so the early narrative was

really kind of hemmed in by those realtime realities. the other thing was, is that there were two separate narratives, right? the senate was on a very favorable -- was on very favorable terrain from the outset for republicans and we talked about that a lot, the house less so. so we ended up with these conflicting stories and in the end donald trump comes in, the president, the bully pulpit says great victory. i think that it was a false narrative or let's not say false narrative but incomplete narrative early on. >> i don't think they made a mistake on tuesday night, it's just that the story was still happening. >> that's what was happening. there was all this talk and expectation blue wave which suggests it's going to sweep everybody away. that's what waves do. they wash everybody away. that's not how it works and that's not how it worked in this case. if you look at what the democrats did in the house and governor's mansion, even beto o'rourke losing, that he came that close to in a state that's so solidly republican, whether it's a stsunami, no.

is it a wave? looks like it. >> we're going to have a three-hour prime time is personal called midterm continued to look at these recounts and how things are being assessed. that's a part of the solution to this issue about tuesday night's narrative versus now. >> that's a great idea. i tell you something else, brian, that's interesting about this. is trump, again, on wednesday, so quickly changed the narrative. listen, i was in my editor's office wednesday afternoon pitching a thursday morning print, a thursday morning online, sunday print piece an lie -- analyzing the role of the governor's race in maryland and people were sticking their heads in going you've got to see this press conference. trump is totally off the rails. >> right. >> halfway through my pitch i said forget it, i'm writing about the press conference. it was, right, he changed it. and also, brian, it's the nanosecond news cycles we now

have. listen, i remember the days, and i loved them, where you spent a week evolving through -- sifting through the results of a tuesday night election. so the sunday piece made perfect sense. not anymore. we're off and running. and he fired -- he got rid of jeff sessions on wednesday. thatting inchad the narrati that changed the narrative in a bigger way. >> thank you both for being here. much more reliable sources in just a moment. smile dad.

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>> to understand president trump you have to understand framing. they are kwig to come up with excuses. he says republicans who lost in the midterms lost because they didn't accept his help. with regards to the devastating fires in california trump is

claiming mismanagement of the forest after the deadly shooting in pittsburgh he said the synagogue should have had armed guards. this is his frame at work. the media has to reject these when they are based on lives. i talked to them for this week's reliable sources podcast. he said we shouldn't fall for trump's frames. >> there are some news outlets that are oppositional. most are not. they are trying to report what's going on. he succeeds turning it into us versus them, turning it into a war-like footing. how do we get out of that? >> you have to undermine it. if you say no we are not doing that then you'll just help them. the main thing you have to do is

positively refrain it yourself giving it your understanding of it. you have to repeat it and set it up in a way that can be repeated. when your frame is repeated it gets strengthened in the people who hear you. >> so instead of saying we are protruth which accepts his frame what should we be saying instead? >> we are responsible reporters reporting the truth. >> period. >> we are doing our job and doing it well. that is why we have a free press. you're talking patriotism on your side. this is what freedom of the press is about. this is why we have freedom in the country. tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern

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