taste wasn't able to tell if its air marshals were being trained properly. they couldn't even tell. the taste does say that's all fixed now. that's all we can take them at, their word. >> let's hope. drew griffon, thanks for the reporting. the news continues so i'll hand it over to chris cuomo. "cuomo primetime" starts now. >> jb, thank you. i am chris cuomo and welcome to prime time. but her e-mails, sure had some bite to the president when he was talking about hillary. what will he say now when it's his daughter ivanka using her personal e-mail for government work? plenty of blow back as well for the president disrespecting a decorated veteran and the hunt for osama bin laden. we have two retired generals here. they're going to set the record straight and the president's not going to like what they have to say. michael hayden and james clapper in attendance. and you may think you know the monica lewinsky story.

we're turkey day minus three. so what do you say? let's get after it. this would be some headline all by itself. a top administration official using a personal e-mail account for official white house business. then you add to that, it's the president's daughter ivanka. what's he going to say about it? nothing. you are not going to hear chants of lock her up at some trump rally about this. what are ivanka's people saying? they're saying her private account was used, quote, almost always for logistics and scheduling concerning her family and that she only did so until the white house told her it was a no-no. let's get after it with two of the biggest names in intelligence, former cia director general michael haden and lieutenant general james clapper. i'm not going to take up too much time on smaller matters.

using a private e-mail to do government business, even after our reporting is she was told that it's a no-no, how big a deal, jim clapper? >> well, it's a big deal politically, certainly. though there's the obvious inconsistency here about the treatment that hillary clinton got for essentially the same thing. intrinsically, you know, whether classified e-mails passed, i don't know. but i just think that the -- i find it incredible after all about hillary clinton's use-or server and using that for passing government communications for this to happen is just pretty incredible. as you say, probably unlikely we're going to hear too many chants of lock her up. >> no, i don't think we'll hear anything about it at all to be

honest with you. but hypocrisy is nothing new these days. general, let's get into some of the pithier matters here. admiral mcraven, the idea of going after him as a critic because he likes hillary clinton, fine. all is fair in politics. the idea of diminishing what he has to say by saying, hey, would have been nice if they caught bin laden sooner, your reaction? let's play sound first. >> retired admiral, navy s.e.a.l., 37 years, former head of -- >> hillary clinton fan. >> special operations -- >> excuse me. hillary clinton fan. >> who led the operation, command of the operations that took down hussein and killed bin laden says your sentiment is the greatest threat to democracy in his lifetime. >> he is a hillary clinton backer. an obama backer. and frankly -- >> he was a navy seal. >> wouldn't it have been nice if we got osama bin laden sooner than that.

>> he is not a hillary clinton backer. he said it himself. let's put the truth to the side. what bothered you so much about this, general? >> well, there are two things. number one, i have met no finer officer than bill mcraven. so to have the president use the power of his office to attempt to diminish frankly someone who i think by way of virtue is better, it is really disappointing. the other element is the gaping ignorance on the part of a president late in the second year of his term as to how cia and special operations forces operate together. his little quote there trying to condemn the lateness, the tardiness of the assault has nothing to do with how these things really happen in the real world. one hopes a president could pick some of that up. >> you know, mr. clapper, it is

not -- it's no small irony the president is talking about they should have gotten bin laden faster. everybody would like to get bad guys who have an existential threat to the america on their mind at all times as soon as you can. that diminishes how difficult it was. i followed it for the better part of 15 years. went to pakistan four times about this. wasn't an easy task. the pakistanis weren't making it easier. the irony that the head of isis is out there, we don't know where he is and the president didn't seem concerned about that. >> actually, mike pointed this out in his tweet today about what about the head of al qaeda? they are are still out uncaptured. the irony is terrible. i couldn't agree more with mike about bill as a friend and a national hero for this country. really, what the president's criticism directed towards

asmeral mcraven is a shot at the intelligence community. if it was up to the intelligence community to find bin laden, which they did. rather than bad mouth it, this was a tremendous testament to the patient, persistence and professionalism of the intelligence community, notably cia, to find him in the first place. i just thought, this is almost a pathetic display by the president. >> to do it with obl right under the nose of the pakistani military without notice from the isi, the pakistani intelligence, a very capable group, as you know better than i, that was no small feat. and we all know that, but this has never been a matter of fact. general, we keep hearing that the president loves the veterans. do you believe we have seen ample proof of that? >> no. we have talked previously, chris, about the performance last weekend in france, the failure to go across the river on the 11th of november. the ability of the president, the tendency of the president to use the armed forces as props as

he has done along the southern border and in other situations as well. he went to the marine barracks here in washington a few days after he didn't go to arlington and again used the marines as a background to show his love for the troops. i did a little research. the president's popularity in the armed forces is a bit above the national average. it's split right down the middle, 44% for, 43% against. he has good support among the enlisted force, but he is well under water with women, minorities and the officer corps. >> he hasn't even gone to visit them abroad. it's interesting the difference between the talk and the walk. jim clapper, let me ask you something. the idea of the president -- he once said, i can't wait to speak to mueller. want to do it under oath. it'll be great. he said it plenty of times. now he says, yeah, we're done with this. i'm not going to talk to him.

they're not answering questions about obstruction in writing. what do you make of the shift? what's the relevance to the probe? >> i think as, you know -- assuming special counsel mueller is nearing the end of his investigation, and i think the reality of what it could connote or what it could represent, the implications of it for president trump, and i believe he's gotten cold feet now that we're getting close to the time where i think some action with the president is going to ensue. i'm sure his lawyers have told him about his potential vulnerability here. i just think he has realized that. he would love, i know, to cut it off right now. that would be a nice luxury for anybody who's under investigation to have.

>> quick question before i let you guys go. interpol, the idea of putting a russian in charge of interpol, general michael hayden what's your take? >> very disappointing and quite dangerous for russian dissidents living elsewhere in the world. now the russians can turn the mechanisms of this international organization to their own political purposes against dissidents. >> if it's so obvious, why is it happening? >> beyond my ability to understand, the previous head was chinese. we had some of the same issues there as well. maybe it's part of america pulling back and not being actively involved in these international organizations. >> jim clapper, michael hayden, boy, look at that screen. talk about turkey in the middle. it is great to have you two men. the best for thanksgiving. i'm grateful to you both. >> happy, thanksgiving. democrats picked up even more seats over the weekend. the president is still trying to blow off the idea of a blue wave, but he's facing a lot of

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37 seats for democrats in the house. that's the most for the democrats since watergate. all right, but the big take away of the mid-term was what it means for 2020, and trump did not like hearing about the new state of play.

>> if you can't carry and you certainly didn't carry it two weeks ago, michigan, pennsylvania, and wisconsin, you are not going to get re-elected. >> i didn't run. i wasn't running. my name wasn't on the ballot. >> he told people so many times, go and vote like i'm on the ballot. i'm not there but i'm there. go and vote. go and vote. just because he says it, doesn't make it true. not now, not then, not ever. here is what we do know. two out of three voters had trump on their mind and most had bad thoughts. as a result, the democrats picked some seats up. they put some bricks down in the blue wall, as they call it, across the midwest, especially with those governor wins. why? because governors help lay the base for electoral outcomes. those state legislatures are the ones that draw up districts. that's where the organizing is done, especially in the center of the country. republicans have dominated governor offices and

legislatures, especially in the midwest, for most of the last decade. that's why democrats picking up seven governor seats in this election, republicans only getting one, that matters. the governor wins by the democrats can make a difference for visiting would-be 2020 candidates who want to make a splash. the optics make a better campaign material when the governor meet you at the airport like a traveling dignitary, you know, the whole sauce of it. trump sounds like he is in denial or spinning as hard as he can. take a listen. >> this is a historically big defeat in the house. you lost 36, maybe 40 seats. some would argue that it was a thumping. >> i won the senate. and that's historic, too. because if you look at presidents in the white house it's almost never happened where you won a seat. we won. we now have 53 as opposed to 51. we have 53 great senators in the u.s. senate. we won.

that's a tremendous victory. >> you can keep saying it, but it doesn't make it true. he already had the senate. all right and remember this -- the map they had in the senate, they came up short with that. they should have had like five seats, maybe six. they only got two. right? they had democrats but in ruby red states and they still lost. they lost in arizona. they lost with tester in montana. they lost with joe manchin in west virginia. if it weren't for trump being such a mixed bag for so many republicans, who knows what would have happened. second, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. we know that. trump is sounding like a repeater. the question becomes, what does this portend for 2020? on the senate side, the democrats have a much easier time in the senate. the math is different, the states in play are different. better for democrats than this time in the midterms. while the foundation, those senate and house seats that could turn blue in 2020, that

looks a little favorable. the real questions for democrats is who they have to take on trump, assuming he runs. their field may look like the gop redux in 2016. everybody and anybody may be running. you got senators booker, warren, sanders, gillibrand, harris, representative o'rourke who got beat in texas. but democrats are very high on him for one reason or another, and they're talking about him running in 2020. certainly didn't give back all the money he raised, so he could use that for 2020. political reports that bernie sanders is lining up progressive activists from across the country for a three-day gathering in burlington next week. senator cory booker is setting his sites on the key state of new hampshire, making his second visit there in less than two months. you know what? a year is so far away. the president's biggest opponent at that time could be the economy or one of a dozen new names, including outsiders that you have never heard of who believe they can exploit the

vacuum of quality talent. you know who did that and won? the president of the united states. we will see what happens. one of the biggest take-aways from the last prejudice election is that you should never use your personal e-mail for government business. why did ivanka trump of all people not get the memo? big news to take up in our great debate next. he braava jet mopping robot from irobot. its precision jet spray and vibrating cleaning head loosen and scrub stains. all while navigating kitchens, bathrooms and those hard to reach places. you and braava jet from irobot. better together.

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ivanka trump under fire for, wait for it, using her personal e-mail for government business while serving in the administration. you cannot make it up. i feel like i say that every week. every week i'm right. hundreds of e-mails last year to white house aides per "the washington post". i wonder what her dad thinks. fair to compare it to hillary clinton? let's ask our great debaters. bicarry sellers and rick santorum. bakari, what do you say? >> crooked ivanka. these things are things we heard about throughout the entire campaign. right now, it's hypocrisy showing its ugly head. republicans didn't care about hillary clinton's e-mails. they wanted to persecute her, chanting lock her up, lock her up. it was good and red meat for the base. they didn't care. now you have ivanka doing the same thing and we're going to

hear complete silence. she's a high ranking -- although his daughter, a high ranking official who has a security clearance. if we're going to have an fbi investigation for hillary clinton, we need an investigation for ivanka trump. i think the saying is what's good for the goose is good for the gander. i am tired of the hypocrisy. the american people are tired of the hypocrisy. we're going to chant lock her up and investigate her from here until the cows come home or we just say that we were hypocritical and hillary clinton's matter was not that serious. >> i hope nobody chants that. it showed a disrespect for the process. what about the hypocrisy here? >> to sort of ignore the obvious differences here is, i think, a little hypocritical. hillary clinton went out and established her own server in full knowledge that what she was doing was wrong. number one. number two, she -- this was a political person who had political aspirations, who was

doing things in her own interest as a political figure as opposed to ivanka who's not a political figure, she's the daughter of the president. she's not the secretary of state dealing with a variety of very sensitive and classified information. even information that's not classified but sensitive from the standpoint of dealing withuwith our allies and fauxes. ivanka is focused on parental leave policies. there's a big difference between what hillary clinton, secretary of state, was doing and what ivanka trump is accused of. >> she's a senior adviser. hillary didn't set up the server. it was set up by her husband before. comey had to say the problem wasn't she was trafficking in classified information but your point stands. apples to oranges, hillary clinton was a big-shot, wanted to be president of the united states. this is different. >> no, it's not different. what's the difference between

whether if hillary clinton was using her own server versus ivanka using yahoo or g-mail, we need to figure out if she was compromised or not. she was communicating with high level cabinet officials. i love that my friends on the right whenever something happens with donald trump junior or eric trump or ivanka, they say my god, they're just children. let them be. now they have security clearances. they are high ranking officials. they are in violation of the law. to say ivanka doesn't know or is ignorant of policy, the perfect example is hillary clinton. her father was chanting lock her up. her father ran a campaign -- you could use #butheremail. to say she's not aware is dishonest. >> i didn't say that. i didn't say she was blameless. i think what she did was wrong. what she did was really not -- sort of inexcusable. i don't think it rises to the

level of what we talked about with hillary clinton. i think they're two different things. but ivanka did, i'm disappointed that she did it. i'm sure she feels very bad about having done that. it was careless, it was not a good thing to do, but it doesn't rise to the level of what mrs. hillary -- >> look, the problem is -- >> should there be an investigation, though?3 >> yeah, you think there should be an investigation or no, rick? >> look, unless there's some evidence here that she was dealing with a lot of information as mrs. clinton was of a sensitive nature and that was part of the discussion, again for what the articles i read was that the majority of the discussions were about scheduling and, you know, her children and families and things like that and i know that's what hillary clinton said, but it didn't turn out to be that way. >> it turned out to be closer to that than what you guys were making of it. i don't care what these guys are using, but if you get caught then you've got a big problem.

and if you get caught by somebody else, not the u.s. government and they catch you and get information from you because you did this, now you've got a big problem on your hands. but during the campaign, let's be honest, this was blown out of control because it was hillary clinton, republicans ran wild with you. if you ask it experts what do you think is safer, g mail or your own server where, they're going to tell you to setup your own server every time. but it was a way to go after hillary clinton, and that's the irony of it now being his own daughter. fair point? >> i think that's a fair point. in fact, i don't necessarily want ivanka investigated. i'm like you, chris, i could care less she was using her private e-mail account. i don't even think she should have security access and i think nepotism is running rampant in the white house and she shouldn't be there in the first

place. >> i think that's where it comes from. we see it on different levels. another topic i wanted to get at with you guys about is what he said to john kelly yesterday. that was a great interview by chris wallace, got to give it to him. i'm biased. i came up under chris wallace at abc news. he was the senior investigative correspondent. top-notch, got in his genes. his father created the confrontational interviews as i'm concerned. and i saw that in a subtle way that wasn't sell prated much. the interview was just yesterday, but when he was talking to john kelly, do we have sound to that? i want to hear you guys talking to john kelly, the chief of staff. listen. >> back in july you said that chief of staff john kelly will be here through 2020. can you still say that? >> well, i wouldn't -- look, we get along well. there are certain things i love

what he does, and there are certain things that i don't like that he does that aren't his strengths. but john at some point is going to want to move on. john will move on. >> so 2020 is no longer written in stone. >> could be. but let's see what happens. >> it's like reality is so day to day in this administration. i mean, there is no loyalty, rick. there's no permanency, and by all accounts general john kelly is giving heart, soul, blood and brain to this administration on a daily basis, and that's the way he gets talked about. >> i didn't see that being critical. he said i love -- >> he won't even guarantee he's here throughout the year. and who does that in politics? bakari, you've been in the business. rick, you were in such a high level. nobody talks like that about their own people. nobody exposes them to scrutiny. >> he also gives john kelly high

praise on multiple occasions. i think something may be going on and general kelly wants to go. >> but does anybody ever safe from scrutiny from this man? >> this is reality tv show. this is the apprentice on steroids. i think there are individuals in the background, nick mulvaney is sitting there in the background who has a demeanor that's much more like donald trump than general kelly. >> you have these people who say come on into the white house, we need you here, would you even consider it? >> chris, i love this show so much, i could never leave. i'm going to do this until, you know, i'm gray and -- >> it's me, isn't it? >> he's too young and too

handsome. rick, you and i, we may be italian but we need a little more to dress like that. i can't tell you how many guys say to me and even anthony scaramucci is honest about this, the idea everybody wants to work in the white house, it's not true. they have a really hard time in general under normal circumstances, it's hard to get people to take time off of their work, worry about their livelihood, cut their money and go in. but in this white house i don't know how much they talk to you about it, but they have a hard time getting talent and you just heard why. >> there are a lot of really talented people in that white house, some used to work for me. and i agree with you at a lot of levels they have had some trouble. >> there are tons of openings. >> and they haven't done a good job filling those openings, and that's a problem getting policy penetrating down through the department. so it has been a problem. i'm not sure it's fair to say that the white house is

necessarily the place where they're having the hardest time recruiting. in fact, i think they've recruited even some top-notch people coming in the next few days. i think it's harder the farther out you get from the president. >> great to have you on the show. i appreciate it. thank you for helping us build something here at "cuomo primetime." you're a big part of it. god bless. monica lewinsky is back in the news and for good reason. this documentary series is going to take people by surprise. yes, you know the story but not really and not from her perspective. i don't know if you read her book, but even if you did what happened with the president, what it meant to her, how it changed her, how it was dealt with, it's all so different than you may acknowledge. and then there's the big question, imagined if it happened today. i have people who cover it then

as did i, i we're going to discuss about what we learn in this documentary series and what would happen if it happened today? it's a provocative discussion and one we're going to have next. ♪ can you feel it ♪ can you feel it ♪ can you feel it ♪ can you feel it ♪ can you feel it ♪ can you feel it ♪ can you feel it ♪ can you feel it shhh... [whispering] ♪ can you feel it

the bill clinton scandal. it always struck me as odd because she was an intern and he was the most powerful man in the world. it's been 20 years. can you imagine that? monica lewinsky is now speaking out about what was done to her by that entire system of scrutiny. it will be new for many of you. here is a clip of the new documentary. >> he, you know, paid a lot of attention to me. he spent time sort of standing there and held my hand longer than he should have. gave what others have described as the full bill clinton. it feels as if you are the only

person standing there. the next day, we had a surprise party for bill on the south lawn that the staff was having. i did this really silly thing. i ran home at lunchtime and i put back on the sage green suit i had been wearing the day before when he paid attention to me. i thought maybe he'll notice me again. and notice me he did. >> bizarre. what a wild ride so many years ago. so much implications. such change to our political culture and our culture even writ large. let's discuss with two pros of the incident. frank bruiny and hershfield davis. i was kind of moved by a lot of what i have heard here. even though i read it in her

book. i have known monica lewinsky over the years. i have heard her talk about this. there's something for me, frank, in hearing her discuss it that put it through the lens of what was done to her in a way i never processed it before. what was your take away? >> i agree. listening to that you're reminded she was a very, very young woman at the time. it got lost at the time i think in retrospect we understand. but she was 22 i think whether this began. bill clinton was 49 or 50. as it went on, he is in his early 50s, she's in her early 20s. the age difference was profound. the level of power, the difference in power between them was profound. monica lewinsky was nonetheless put through the wringer, through the grinder, like very few people i have seen in my lifetime. one of the things i find moving about this -- i know her a little bit, too. i have gotten to know her in the last couple years. to see her talking about this with such poise, to just see her healthy and vibrant after all

she went through and all the work she had to do to patch herself together and move on, i feel enormous respect for her. >> i remember all the way back than, julie, one of the interesting things was my wife came to know monica lewinsky. my wife has always been heart and head and a beautiful combination. i i remember her back then being like what is being done to her? what did she do? what is going on here? and it was interesting how whether intentional or unintentional, conscious or subconscious, it was about getting her. even in the media hillary clinton, you would think she was stormy daniels or somebody like that in terms of someone who knew what she was doing, was engineering. why the difference between how we dealt with it then and how we would now. >> you're still right about that, and as you pointed out

before it's known as the lewinsky scandal, not the bill clinton scandal. and the lens then was so much less the predicament she was in and what she was experiencing as a young woman in this extraordinary situation. really the lens was, and i was just getting to washinton at the time and starting out as a political reporter, we were all kind of obsessed what this would mean for bill clinton and the presidency and the remarkable nature of what we saw unfold. it was true she was sort of hunted by news photographers. >> by her own friends, people she confided it. >> right and left. but there was such an appetite because no one had seen anything like this before. and the change in perspective now in what we're seeing is when these things come to light, when these incidents have happened more recently in the last couple of years the focus really is on the women and what the women are experiencing, how they were put

in situations and put themselves in situations in some cases where the power dynamic was really unequal. and they suffered consequences for it. and there's much less tolerance, much less understanding for whatever, you know, the man in power may have been going through. there's really much more of a focus as there should be on, you know, how this could have been allowed to happen. and i think to see monica roounsroou lewinsky living through this now is really fascinating. >> and she's done amazing things in her life despite that period. i want to play something more and get into what you were talking about, the then and now dynamic. >> i kept asking can i call my mom, he kept saying no. he said you're 24, you don't need to call your mommy, you need to make a decision about what to do. and i said you should know i'm leaning towards not cooperating. and he said, well, you should

know that we're also planning on prosecuting your mom for the things that you said she did on the tape. and i basically stood my ground and said if they would not let me call someone, call my mom, i couldn't make this decision without talking to her. so eventually they said okay. >> now, two things and i want to button this with a different piece of sound, frank, and i want to come to you. but one is she didn't come forward and try to rat on bill clinton. that's always been out there, she came out. no, she did not. and to have feds talking to you as a 20 something-year-old saying we will come at your mother if you don't talk to us like she was some part of like a mob organization. and then the other piece that wasn't really appreciated at the time, and i hope people get it now, where she was in her life and what this would be like if it happened to you. listen to this. >> it's not as if it didn't

register with me that he was the president. obviously it did. but i think in one way the moment we were actually in the back office for the first time, the truth is that i think it meant more to me than someone who other people desired desired me. >> that really puts it right. you know, so many desired, desired me. i'd always felt like that when like how could she do that with the president, how could she not? not to be moral or amoral about it, but do those perspectives mean to you? >> you know, the president of the united states was laser focused on her and she's a young woman in her early 20s. that has to be dazzling. if anyone one of us were in a situation like that, think about

what that would be like. she didn't run and tattle to the authorities. in fact she was secretly  recorded by her supposed friend linda tripp. i have to repeat it's amazing she's standing here in one piece right now. and the thing that's always enraged me if you go back and look at the coverage she was presented as much or mus villain than victim when both things are at play, and she was more victim than villain, and she sort of at least in the years afterwards paid a much heavier price for this than adults who were her senior. >> he won. he won after that. she was gone. i remember her trying to make it to in new york city. she had a creative sense, a fashion sense, she wanted to do handbags. i mean scarlett letter doesn't even begin to describe it. >> after being mortified like that, how does she get past the sense of outrage and? justice she was vilified to the

extent that adults after her were not vilified and she is suffering the greatest damage. i don't know how you put that away, you put the injustice of that away and move on with as much composure -- >> she wound up talking about victimization and bullying online. she really wound up doing so much with her life. julie, i'll start with you -- if it happened today, what would be the play? do you think a president would survive? i'm not talking about impeachment. i'm talking about court of public opinion. what do you think would be different? >> i think it would be much, much different today and i think it would start with the fact as i said before we're in an era now appropriately where women are believed and their experiences are front and center in these cases particularly where there's a power dynamic, which there certainly was here, not just about her feeling desired by a desirable plan but

he was the president of the united states and she was an intern in her 20s. but i also think we have to acknowledge the fact that the current sitting president has been accused of, you know, harassing and actually assaulting women -- >> and what would happen, though -- i hear you about that. you're making all the right points 100%. but, frank, if you factor in something at the time, and i'm not saying it's right or wrong, but the consensual nature of it. she was in her 20s. she wasn't 15, 16, but the idea of well for it to come out, well this was completely consensual, do you think it would be survivorable? >> she could legally consent, but i don't think that makes her equally responsible. what would happen today it's really hard to say. we've come a long way in believing women, we've come a long way in understanding the

power men high up the chain have than women below them. but we also were so partisan. if you look at trump he puts the truth into dispute and says those facts are wrong. when we have tapes, the people do so partisan battle over the narrative now that partisan battle may eclipse -- >> it's so intriguing. i'll tell you if one president could survive it, it would be the one we have right now. because he has proven teflon in a way bill clinton wish he was at that time. great to have you both and be well and happy thanksgiving. it would be nice if this president could go a day without lobbing insults, but that's not who he is, and that's not how he treats opposition. even if we're talking about heroes who put their lives on the line to protect him and the rest of us. we're talking about veterans. you shouldn't ever talk smack

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so the president went after admiral mcraven and the obl hunt for two reasons, osama bin laden. and both reasons, i would argue, are bad. the first, he attacked not because he has some deep-seated feeling or understanding of the war on terror or what opportunities were missed in getting osama bin laden. quite the opposite. he had a jellyfish-type reaction to someone opposing him. here's how it worked. the admiral called out his threatening hour free press. he heard it. it's criticism, so he attacks. listen. >> bill mcraven, retired admiral, navy s.e.a.l., 37 years, former head of u.s. special operations. >> hillary clinton fan. >> special operations. >> excuse me. hillary clinton fan. >> who led the operations, commanded the operations that took down saddam hussein and killed osama bin laden said that your sentiment is the greatest threat to democracy in his lifetime. >> okay. he's a hillary clinton backer

and an obama backer, and frankly -- >> he was a navy s.e.a.l. >> wouldn't it have been nice if we had gotten osama bin laden a lot sooner than that? >> can you imagine that's where we are? our commander in chief denigrates the efforts to get osama bin laden, to go after the admiral who was responsible for taking down saddam hussein, taking down osama bin laden. of course it was a team effort. of course there were many. but he was one. and why? because the president doesn't like what he said about him. and by the way, what he just told you is a lie. the admiral is not a hillary clinton supporter. how do we know? he said as much. he never even endorsed her. this is not about the truth. it's ham-fisted deflection. you hit me, i hit you. but he attacked a decorated veteran who's a hero, and he maligned one of the greatest takedowns of an opponent in modern history.

the man who represented the 9/11 threat is now gone. thanks should be the order of the day always to the s.e.a.l.s, their admiral, their commander, all the intelligence people and the support troops who made their efforts possible. the years of work before those magic moments in that night. some are surprised that the president would attack the osama bin laden effort or admiral mcraven because trump loves the veterans so much. says who? trump? we only know what we can show. he gave them a race, true. so have others. he's left 15,000 active troops in afghanistan after saying he'd bring them home. he sent others to the border for no good reason during the holidays. in fact, the same day last week when trump was patting himself on the back, saying, i've done so much for vets, i could leave right now, congress was dealing with the appalling failure of the trump administration to deliver g.i. payments to thousands.

they've been waiting weeks, months, for money we promised them in trade for their lives. where's the love? his words? where were they when he was in france, when rain kept him from the world war i ceremony, on veterans day when arlington was skipped because of phone calls. please. then there's a second reason. this is a distraction. the president has a genius quality when it comes to knowing what the media will pick up on, what opponents will be triggered by. he gets it, and he is right almost every time. so what happens? well, what's happening right now. instead of pointing out how his lies about the caravan were exposed as just that, how the great deal maker has nothing working with congress, how he went bad on how pumped he was to talk to mueller. remember that? i'll talk to him. i'll talk to him under oath. yes, guaranteed to john karl at abc. now he won't even let his lawyers prep answers about

obstruction. talk about a hoax. that's a hoax. you'll talk to him under oath. now you won't even answer questions in writing that your lawyers put together. and of course how the white house tried and failed again to suppress the press in the white house. that's what the mcraven thing was all about in the beginning. mcraven saying you threatening the press is the biggest threat to democracy. it resonates because this man fights terror. that's what he did. rules that the white house said they're going to have by agreement when there's no agreement. you can't ask follows. more than 20 journalists did that in the last press conference. they're all going to be gone? trump saying they'll just throw someone out if they violate the rule. that's not due process. what's going on in his counsel's office? do they have lawyers in there or bouncers? so as we say, don't be a sucker. don't be played. what the president says is not always true.

if you want to know how he thinks about vets, don't measure the words. look at the actions. all right? and any insight that he has into this search for bin laden or any profound motivation to help veterans, he gives us every reason to think twice before we follow him down the hole of empty insults and attacks. here's my closing. the less you obsess on the president's empty words and threats, the more you can focus on the ones that matter. me too. thank you very much for watching us. another hour, a big interview ahead. you all know stacey abrams, right? she just ended her bid for governor in georgia after a bitter, ugly battle against the secretary of state, now governor-elect brian kemp. but she's not done fighting, and she wants to tell you why, next.

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