of stories than we do a lot of times now on the evening program. the news continues right now, i want to hand it over to chris for cuomo "prime time". >> i'm chris cuomo, and welcome to "prime time." special counsel robert mueller believes michael cohen's assertion was lying to you, when he said he had no business dealings with russia during his campaign it did the president lie to mueller in his answers about the same russia deal? if so, are we seeing a pattern that may persuade congress to act? i can confirm the president was asked about this russia deal. today he said something that blows the idea that he barely knew about this deal out of the water, and i'll point it out to you in a moment. tonight that's what we're doing tieing pieces together for you. after talking to people on all sides of the story. the problem is, the closer you

get to the president, the more the truth becomes a precious commodity. my friends, let's get after it. the russia investigation has certainly entered an explosive and new chapter, and it's right up in the president's kitchen. there are even more bombshells dropping tonight, following michael cohen's second guilty plea. as you know, the president's former lawyer and called his fixer, today tied the president to some of the highest levels of the russian government. he says the president and he both lied about a proposed deal with the russians, however, michael cohen did it to congress. and all this was done when the president was the presumptive nominee, it was about a trump tower project in moscow. and now we're learning from another close associate of the president's, that the 2016 project included offering vladimir putin a penthouse in the tower, reportedly worth $50 million. what does this all mean for the president?

he said earlier he decided against the proposed deal, but he also defended it. >> there would be nothing wrong if i did do it. i was running my business white i was campaigning. there was a good chance i wouldn't have won, in which case i would have gotten back into the business. why should i lose lots of opportunities. >> two impressive things there. did you hear that? the president says he didn't think he was going to win, that's why he was keeping his business interests going. did you hear him say, i decided not to do it? that puts him at odds from the session of those around him that he was focused on the campaign. it was all cohen running around doing his thing. i'm the one that decided not to do it. we also hear from white house sources, the president is in a terrible mood while preparing for the g-20 in argentina. he's spooked and completely distracted. does he fear we're about to

learn what russia has over him that explains his passiveness when it comes to putin? let's bring in barrett burger and jim schultz. it's good to have you both. very important night. legally/strategically, what do you see with the latest plea from cohen? >> this is an incredibly important guilty plea for the special council. for mike ap cohen, the added charge is not that significant. he pled guilty to eight different offenses this one doesn't add much for time to his sentence. this is why it's important for the special counsel's office. this is not a charge they farmed out to another u.s. attorney's office. they kept it themselves, they feel this is in the heart and mandate of their investigation. this is a crescendo leading to something else. they would not have made michael cohen plea to this if they

didn't think they could use him for something bigger. >> i remember someone teaching me >> when it comes to these kinds of deals, it is worse when it happens in reverse, he used to say to me. if you get the deal after you make your proffer, that is an unusually strong indication that the prosecutor sees value and credibility. and that's what happened here. cohen didn't get a deal, he just pled guilty. he didn't get a cooperation agreement. he had to earn it, 70 hours we understand, he sat with mueller and his investigators, what kind of exposure concerns you. >> we heard the same breathlessness when we heard about the manafort plea deal. >> who's breathless. >> you've been breathless. the folks on this network have been breathless. >> i'm the picture of poise. he came out and said, he made it clear, that the president wasn't telling the american people the truth when he said he had no dealings with russia during the campaign.

>> in this case, the sky is falling, because there's another plea deal. i think we have to wait and see how it plays out. i don't believe that michael cohen, what he says is gospel, and i don't believe anybody can credibly think that either. you say that mueller, well, he's a very important witness. so was manafort a very important witness, we saw what happened to that last week, who knows how this is going to play out in terms of the credibility of michael cohen. >> two things berit. the reason mueller believes cohen isn't just that he feels it, right? it's because they have proof of communications that extended beyond the date that cohen originally gave. the original narrative was upset by proof. that's why mueller believes him. it's not a personality contest. why is it never enough for those who support the president to point out lying.

why isn't a pattern of lying to the american people about things that matter in moments that matter, not impressive, doesn't mean it's illegal. we're talking about political judgment here, and political consequences. can't lying add it up in a pattern that we're starting to see here matter? right, like you said, lying, obviously lying to congress is a crime, lying to investigators is a crime, lying to the people is not necessarily a crime, but that doesn't make it ethical. i think that mueller's team did exactly what you said. they're not going to take cohen's word for it. the famous statement is trust. they're going to investigate, verify. they have documents, financial records, they have other witnesses that they talked to that they put into a grand jury. this is how they verify what a corroborating witness is saying. i agree, i don't think they should take what cohen is saying as gospel.

i don't think any prosecutor should look at their cooperating witness. sure, tell me it, just because they sign a cooperation agreement doesn't mean they've taken a truth serum. you can verify what they say. >> these things go sideways very quickly. and we saw it with manafort. very important witness, he was cooperating. they wanted his cooperation. and now all of a sudden they don't. >> he wasn't trump's boy for a decade. >> well -- >> he wasn't trump's boy for a decade. >> the other night you were telling me how much manafort was so tied to the president. >> well, he wasn't campaign chairman. >> you can't have it both ways. >> sure, you can. manafort matters because he was the campaign chair. cohen matters more, because he was watching trump in action for over a decade. >> he audiotaped his clients as a lawyer. one of the biggest in no nos. to say again i'm not talking about mueller here, i'm talking

about us as talking heads, to take what cohen is saying as gospel until we see the facts until we see the report, i think is very -- is not the right thing to do. >> again, berit, mueller has proof that those in concert -- with that cohen is saying about the russia deal and the timing. something else just in terms of integrity and character. if cohen wanted to put one on trump on this, he would have said, i lied to congress and the president told me to do it. >> that's exactly right. >> he didn't say that. >> that's exactly right. >> he said i did it because i thought it's what he wanted me to do. he gave him cover if anything. >> they say, look, if they want to frame someone, put one over. why wouldn't they lie bigger and better. to your point on integrity. what the special council's office did shows the absolute integrity of that office.

they foun found out he highed to them they didn't say, let's see if we can fix this, obviously this was an important witness to them. he's someone that maybe they were going to indict other people, because of his testimony, but they didn't just brush it under the rug, they didn't say they could work with it, they said what they're going to do, which is rip up his agreement. that shows integrity. they're doing exactly what they should be doing as respectful to the prosecutors. >> mueller's team is doing what they should be doing. but we as the american people we as spectators to all this, i think it's irresponsible for us to jump to conclusions. >> 100%. >> just because mueller finds some use in michael cohen that automatically what he says is gospel, what he says is the truth. >> i agree. >> there's no reason to exaggerate effect. when you look at, piece by piece, i heard something very interesting today that's getting very little notice. which was the understanding from the reporting of those around the president say, he was asked

about this, and he said what the reality was for him. he was busy with the race, he didn't know. cohen was freelancing and trying to get something done. cohen didn't know what e-mail to use in russia. this was low level dealings. otherwise trump would have been involved. and the president today on the fly said something very interesting. he said, i decided not to do this deal. i decided not to do it. well, which is it? did you not have any attention paid. were you really focused on the race, and you didn't know anything about this, or did you know enough to make the decision not to go forward with the deal? >> those two can't be true. >> he's leading a major company, while running for the highest office in the land. he's not going to be involved in every intimate detail of the campaign. as he shouldn't be. he's not going to be involved in every intimate detail of running that company, as he shouldn't be while he's running for president. that's not to say he can't be

briefed and make decisions. to say -- >> he said he ended it. that's a lot of involvement. >> that means he was briefed. that doesn't mean he had every intimate detail along the way. every offer that was made. remember, there are a lot of real estate deals that the trump organization gets involved in on a day to day basis. granted this is a big one. no question about it. but to say the president was involved while he was candidate trump. >> say that he had no -- >> doing ramally after rally after rally. >> yes, and at that rally. >> night after night after night. >> and at that rally. hold on a second. at one of those rallies, he raised his hand for a moment. with the crowd howls, and said, i promise, i swear i never had -- nothing to do with russia, at that very moment he did. at that very moment, during the campaign when he was the

presumptive nominee for his party, they came up with that weird plank in the platform that favored russia, he did have aspirations of having a deal with russia on a development deal where putin may be gifted a $50 million apartment to drew draw suitors. isn't that something the american people should know? >> we don't know when he knew about it. >> he knew enough to cancel the deal. >> he might not have known the facts relating to sweetening the deal. marketing the deal. >> a signed letter of intent. >> i agree with you, and to some extent, the only person as of today, that we know is guilty is michael cohen. he admitted he was guilty. i agree we cannot rush to judgment about who knew what when. the only person today who is guilty is michael cohen. my point is, if everything is above board, if there are no issues, if this is all just regular hedging your bets, because this is a normal business transaction, why lie. the prosecutors confront this all the time.

the situations in which people are lying about something usually mean that something is not right. so the fact that we have people that cannot seem to get their stories straight on this, indicates to me that there's something sketchy going on here. >> ordinarily, i'm spared on the -- i wonder what happens next, usually i think, just because this happened doesn't mean something else does, not this time. if mueller believes cohen on something like this, there could be much more that he believes him about. and those who have been reporting on this story as i have, know that's a pretty deep well. appreciate the robust dialogue. tonight is about piecing things together, now that we have all these new facts and this new perspective, you can connect dots about where this could all lead, and it's not about illegality necessarily. remember that, it's not just a prosecution in a court of law, it could come down to the court of public opinion, you. it could come down to an action by congress. there are clues in the cohen

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facts first, and a look forward, three months ago, michael cohen pleaded guilty in

a separate case relating to hush money payments all for the president. now, at that time he offered to give information to the government but was not given a cooperation deal. that's something to flag, why? it means he had to impress mueller's team in order for them to give him anything in return. after some 70 hours of interviews, and admitted that he lied to congress about the russia deal, mueller put his own name on a document before a judge saying that michael cohen is valuable and credible. what can we dedeuce from that document. let's do some reading between the lines. first, if mueller believes colon, that the president wanted to hide the potential deal. that means he reasonably believes the president had a motive to be soft on putin, which has certainly been the case. was that the same motive that led to a favorable plank in the party platform.

and obviously, motive to lie about having any financial connections to russia during the campaign. if michael cohen and felix seder, who was trying to make the deal happen in russia for the president, reportedly, this deal included offering vladimir putin a $50 million penthouse, in a building with trump's name on it, to boost sales to other oligarchs. all of which the president was lying about even after he was a republican nominee for president. more proof of a problem for the president. if it is all nonsense, none of this is true, why has russia been lying to cover for trump, just like cohen did? when first asked about trump reaching out to them through cohen, here's what kremlin spokesman said, it was in august of 2017, we do not react to such business topics, this is not our work, we left it unanswered, okay?

>> cohen said and proved to mueller's satisfaction, that they did in fact answer more than once in writing and on the phone, and then today, the kremlin pretty much confirmed the same. why lie if there was nothing to hide? or is the truth as simple as they lied, because there was something to hide. cohen's admissions, not only intensify scrutiny on the president, but his family, cohen said he was in contact with the family about this deal well into the campaign. the time line not clear at this point, but it does suggest that trump and liz family were still pressing for a deal even in the lead up to trump becoming the presumptive nominee. and donald trump jr. told congress he knew very little about the deal. another issue, can cohen assist mueller in showing he knew plenty about that deal? the big question now, what else does cohen know that mueller

finds credible? what do we know about cohen? he never went to the white house, but he was in trump's office when the campaign was largely run out of it for a long time, and he was with him many years before that, what the president may know about the trump tower meeting with a russian operative, when the wikileaks e-mail dumps were coming, could all be in cohen's wheel house. and remember, cohen can just be a corroborator, adding to what others have told mueller. he's seen 100 people. he also has some kind of deal between the prosecutors and the chief financial officer of the trump organization. so while not a primary source, michael cohen or others could offer documents, anecdotes, proof that the president says things that he doesn't now want to own. the president says he kept michael cohen around for so long, because he did him a favor.

ominous. people think this is a lie. to be sure, michael cohen is not doing any more favors for this president. now, my next guest says the worst may be yet to come for donald j. trump. is he right? former white house ethics czar norm eisen's predictions tested next.

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and ask how you get xfinity mobile included with your internet. plus, get $200 back when you when you buy a new smartphone. xfinity mobile. it's simple. easy. awesome. click, call or visit a store today. bob mueller has never gotten closer to showing wrongdoing by the president at least in public than he did today. and we should expect many more shoes to drop in the coming weeks, says former white house ethics czar norm eisen who joins me now. time for the student to take on the teacher here. let's point/counter point this, and see if we can provide more understanding for folks. why are you so impressed by what happened today? >> you have somebody who's in trump's innermost circle for so long, chris, who's known as his fixer, who knows where the bodies are buried, whose

stepping up and admitting that he lied to congress to cover up the continued business dealings between donald trump and the trump organization during the campaign when trump had already clinched the nomination. contrary to what trump was saying at the time, why the lies, what is the reason for the cover-up, why did cohen take the risk of lying to congress, this is another very important piece in the puzzle of collusion of obstruction and the plea today helps on campaign finance crimes as well. all three fronts materially advanced. >> how does it help on campaign finance? >> the key witness, remember, the last time that michael cohen pled guilty, he stood up and said that the president of the united states had instructed him to violate the campaign finance laws. by facilitating the payment to

stormy daniels, now you have 70 hours of cooperation with mueller who knows how much time with the southern district of new york, here's your tour guide for that campaign. >> okay. >> and he got healthy on his congressional false statement charges by coming clean today. he's a much more dangerous witness. >> counterpoints. one, unlike the last time that michael cohen admitted what he did, this time he did not say that the president made him do it, he said the opposite, he said he was doing this because he thought it would be helpful to the president, he didn't throw the president under the bus. two, the president says this was all cohen. this was cohen and his buddy felix, trying to get this done. it was a nothing deal, it never happened, michael cohen didn't know the right e-mail at the kremlin to use. and third, even if everything you're saying is right there was nothing illegal about the president trying to find business while he was campaigning. it's not illegal, and when he said, i didn't have any

business, that's because to him business means a done deal that's making money. this was still in the offering stages. >> well, chris, if it was such a nothing burger, why did then candidate trump lie about it, stand up and say he had no business dealings with russia? >> because it was just an idea. there was no business many. >> these ideas are material to the american people, if it were that benign, i don't think trump and cohen would have gone to such lengths to conceal it. consider the legal aspects, chris, there's reporting tonight that there may have been an offer of a $50 million penthouse to vladimir putin. that's a potential foreign corrupt practices act violation. >> depends who makes the offer and who receives the benefit. >> do you really believe that michael cohen would offer to give away $50 million of donald trump's property without checking with him. >> wasn't his property, it was a

licensing deal. >> it would have been a hit to donald trump to have that property in the way. >> it was a marketing play. it may have raised more money for the deal, pursuant to which the president would have gotten a cut. the president likes to say he was a developer. but more and more often later in his career, when he got to his bigger stage, and that's pun intended it was tv that made him a famous businessman, not his actual businesses. this deal was an example of that. the letter of intent shows this was a licensing deal, where the president may have gotten the management right to the hotel. but that he wasn't giving vladimir putin everything, this was a marketing scheme to draw attention to the project by cohen and felix seder and get other oligarchs to buy the apartments. >> that's not the way the fcpa works. if there was something with a corrupt intent. something with value tender.

to abuse russia and putin to pursue the deal. then whoever made that offer is on the hook. mueller sponsored the statement. that he had frequent communication. with individual one. donald trump. i believe that you have to look at it, this is why it matters for collusion, obstruction. you have to -- >> where's the collusion, where's the obstruction. >> the motive, the motive. chris. here's how it matters. >> please. >> here's how it matters for collusion. we just -- like we've had with obstruction, there's accumulating evidence of this back and forth between russia and those around president trump. now, today we have another important revelation of that back and forth. it creates a motive, it creates an understanding, it creates a pattern that trump and russia wanted to help each other. on obstruction, have you to remember what we saw today is just the tip of the iceberg.

we know -- >> how do you know? >> there are -- because we don't have 70 hours worth of conversations in this -- in this scanty plea agreement, okay? you have the tip of the iceberg, cohen was there for 10 years, he was the cher pa, we know there's much more than he's going to talk about, i believe that i has been asked -- it would be malpractice for mueller not to ask it, and there have been media reports he's been asked, was there any inducement -- >> i can confirm that, that this deal was asked to the president in mueller's interrogatories, written questions. >> let me ask you a question. if the president is willing to say in public to the new york post that he has not taken off a pardon for paul manafort from the table, can you imagine what might have been said in private? i'm not saying it was said, it may or may not have been. >> highly speculative, counselor.

>> i agree. but there's the potential, when you have someone that's so close and kept talking to trump. we know they kept talking to each other after any defense lawyer would have said, stop talking to each other. who knows what was said in the conversation. >> i'll tell you who knows, michael cohen knows. >> and donald trump. >> and there was something you said -- i'll end on a high note for you. some time ago, you may not even remember, because you pass along so much wisdom to me. you said, when we found out that the questions were coming, you said to my, they made a mistake waiting this long to answer these questions. because they think they were buying time, but they were actually selling time to bob mueller to give him more time to figure things out before he asked them the questions, and now we're seeing that he'sry

he's responds responding kwek quickly to putting pieces together. as always, thank you for expanding our perspective. >> thank you, chris. >> all right, so how does all of this factor into the president's refusal to criticize vladimir putin. let's be honest, beyond legalities and speculation, that's the -- you know, the bothersome question. what does putin have on this president to explain why he's so soft where putin is involved. two of the best brains in the intelligence business and phil mudd next. hi, kids! i'm carl and i'm a broker. do you offer $4.95 online equity trades? great question. see, for a full service brokerage like ours, that's tough to do. schwab does it. next question. do you offer a satisfaction guarantee? a what now? a satisfaction guarantee. like schwab does. man: (scoffing) what are you teaching these kids? ask your broker if they offer award-winning full service and low costs, backed by a satisfaction guarantee. if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. if you don't like their answer,

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trump's entanglements with russia, no longer just a point of speculation. what does that tell us about his oddly soft relationship with putin how does ukraine factor into all of this. especially right before the g 20 where the president is in argentina. two great minds for all this, phil mudd and mike rodgers. let me start with you in terms of what real exposure can be here. this notion that vladimir putin may have been gifted an apartment in this development deal maybe give him

a cut of the action, it matters to you, why? >> the foreign corrupt practices act is serious. you don't have to fully transact the deal, you just have to offer it, if you're offering something of value, to get something of value, you are in violation of the foreign corrupt practices act it would be hard for anyone to argue you didn't give something of value to the president of russia to get approved a building to have some value there. that's against the law. >> what's the difference between a corrupt practice and a business deal? >> when you're dealing overseas, you cannot offer something of value. the reason the united states does this is to promote u.s. values over seas. where corruption is rampant. it puts the onus on american businesses to do the right

thing, meaning, if you're asked for a bribe, have you to say no, and you should report it, if you offer a bribe, you're in violation of the law. it's pretty tough, pretty strict. even if -- they keep saying the trump organization, my theory on this is, now you have cohen. i think that's probably why the trump organization is rattled, is that he probably would have some -- at least insight into that, and then if you take their treasurer and accountant who's already cooperating, this could spell trouble, i think for them if they offered this as part of a deal, if the deal didn't go through. if you offered something of value to get that deal go through you are in violation of the foreign corrupt practices act. that's a felony. that's a serious charge. someone in that organization is going to have to be accountable for that. >> let's take that point. we're talking about the cfo of the trump organization, who was with donald trump so long he started working with donald trump's father. and michael cohen, he was up to

he was there for a decade. his elbows in a lot of trump intrigue and business. what kind of well can those two draw water from? >> if that question's for me? >> no, that's to fill. -- phil. >> i think the wells are starting to come together here, the one question you would have to pick up on what congressman rogers said, are there illegitimate transactions? that go to the core of the election campaign amid-2016. that's what michael cohen is talking about. the piece we have not discussed here is at the same time during this week we're seeing allegations that the campaign manager is having conversations with individuals with wikileaks connected with russia about whether the trump campaign can receive information of value, what are you going to release about hillary clinton manafort

is talking to russian intermediaries, whether russia is going to dump information on clinton. cohen is talking about russia about business details. >> you want to tell me those two pieces aren't going to come together? people talking about money aren't also talking about dumping information during the campaign? that smells dirty, that smells bad. >> well, there is one co ens coincidence. as a matter of timing. >> it shows looking at the time line, the day on which michael cohen said i'm not interested in going to russia any more, it's not going to happen. is the same day it came out that the russians were involved in hacking the e-mails. it's interesting even if it's not relevant. in terms of motivational. >> if i'm the investigator in this, here's what i'm interests in. there's business relationships and there could be violations in that that would be completely separate from a collusion charge. got that.

what's interesting is the business relationships may have established the relationships they could have used in -- to provide at least the anything of the release of the e-mails, that's not really collusion. i think they could charge them, if that is true, they could charge them on the computer abuse act. that is that you knowingly conspired to release information that you know is illegal when i obtained. that's a real charge. collusion is not a real charge. that is a real charge. if you start seeing the gelling of all of this, they're doing these things in their business world, it established connection s at the senior enough level of the collusion piece. all you'd have to do is have people say, yeah, that's what happened. if you're an investigator, today

was a bad day for the president. >> let's talk about why it may not have been. you can't indict the sitting president. the doj guidance on it is pretty clear. unless they ask for new guidance or a new reckoning. it comes down to political exposure. where do you have the president, where do you have you're going to prove this guy lies all the time? it's a pattern. >> no. no, no, no about. >> how do you get him. how's he in real trouble? >> i don't buy this for a heartbeat. there's a difference between whether you violated the law or did something that is inappropriate in the face of the american people. if i had stood and said, look, i had conversations about the russians about a business deal when i was a senior fbi officer, at the same time, we were having conversations about counter terrorism policy, i said, i'm

sorry, those conversations didn't violate the law, but they look horrible in the face of the washington post, and cnn and the new york times, i'm sorry, but they were ethically inappropriate, but they didn't violate the law, and i'm supposed to say that's great? i'm sorry, chris, the question isn't solely whether the law was violated. the question in mid-2016, mr. president, is it appropriate to have business conversations with the russians at the same time you're determining what your policy is on sanctions with them? i don't care what the law says. >> and he lies and spins it away. >> no, no. >> and there's no criminal charge, and nothing i've seen where republicans in the senate are going to go along with any impeachment movement. even nancy pelosi was throwing water during the campaign and the midterms on impeachment. it would have to be something the american people want.

bha what do you think triggers that? we all remember president ford saying high crimes and misdemeanor for purposes of impeachment is anything congress says it is. what do the american people say is too much? by the way, i don't think we've met the threshold for impeachment. i think that is a very -- >> what are you nodding your head for, phil? >> there's a different discussion to be had on this, versus, we're going to impeach the president, at the end of the day. your mothers are always right, and the people you hang out with says a lot about who you are. the president has a cast of characters that we wouldn't -- >> only the best. >> they're going to start weighing these plea agreements, versus counting the number. and so i think that's a problem. that's a problem politically. that said, it doesn't mean that the president of the united states violated the law, i think there is -- the smell coming

from that particular corner of his business dealings is not very good. it doesn't mean he violated the law. if you're going to impeach the president, you have to meet that standard. we are such a divided country. whoever the next president is, you don't want the first conversation to be had, they did x on y, we think they've done something wrong. this is still a country where you have to prove it. do i think there's some problems here, and it was a bad day politically for the president? i do, the fact that he -- the one guy that was doing all of the deals with women and affairs. and the financial transactions and did other favors for the president, whatever that is. you take that with all the other cooperators, this is a bad day for the president, something's going to come out, even if it's not impeach, it doesn't look very good. >> at a minimum, phil mudd anything to add? >> i agree.

the question isn't whether the president did something unethical, the question is whether we should overturn the will of the people. that bar ought to be very high. >> very high. >> when madison was working on high crimes and misdemeanors on impeachment, they were worried it would be used as political pay back. you can't have that. have you to meet a very high bar. what that is is different in every situation. thanks to both of you, gentlemen. i appreciate it. i've told you before, some of the talk -- some of the posturing, some of the behavior that we've seen with the president and those around him throughout this process, seems almost mobbish, seems like a caricature of a mob movie. the language sound. that is offensive to even discuss. it does have a flavor of the sopranos, what they see as weak and who's a rat. what's strong and the guy did me favors, it's like stuff i used to hear on the corner and i would be rushed

away, so i wouldn't be corrupted by that influence. today we saw some real examples of this from the highest elected official in the land. this is about what you think, what do you think of this? >> if cohen is such a bum, why did you hire him? have him on your payroll for 12 years, and have him do so much of your dirty work -- >> because a long time ago he did me a favor. >> now, first of all, let's bring in don lemon, i spent all day tracking down reporting on this story with those on all sides of it. those in the know believe this is a bluff by the president. this wasn't about a favor. he brought him in because he was loyal as hell and he worked his ass off. and did what the president wanted him to do for a long time. even that notion, hey, he did me a favor, so i gave him a job. he's weak. if you don't admit to a lie, then you're strong.

if you turn with the government, then you're a rat. this is not the way a high elected official is supposed to talk. it's the way guys talk to me when they're wearing orange jumpsuits. and explaining why they got done wrong. >> well, i guess you're right. any time someone is -- doesn't say glowing things about -- this is beyond glowing, not saying glowing things. this is about turning on him. he has terrible things to say about them. they were basically a water boy, or a coffee boy, or worked for my campaign just for a few short weeks, or they weren't that good at their jobs. i don't know anyone that, you know, is not good at their job and they keep a job for over a decade as a favor. michael cohen is an attorney. he can't practice now because of what's happened. >> taking care of the most intimate situations that could ruin you. >> but think about this. he's an attorney. okay, so you give him one case

or two cases and you say, okay, great. the favor, i've made good on the favor. i got to tell you, though, and i'll talk to you about it at the top of the hour. i actually talked to michael cohen today. i know you know him, known him for a long time. i talked to him for a bit. at the top of the hour we'll talk about what happened. then we're going to talk a little bit late tore eric swalwell. they're going to be in the majority. are they going to bring michael cohen back for questioning? we'll talk about that. >> and so about what? they have big decision s to make about how they want to yu their new power, is it about deal making or oversight as i joke and say ball breaking. d. lemon, i'll see you at the top of the hour. so, both michael cohen and the president lied. however, only one is admitting it so far. if you want to know the truth about the president's intentions, all you need to do is turn to his reaction today to the cohen plea. his words revealed so much, and i'll break it down for you next.

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a president not breaking the law is not enough for satisfactory conduct in a presidency. how you conduct yourself, being

straight with americans, that matters, too. and today was the biggest piece in a pattern of lying about what matters that uniquely defines this president. exhibit a. >> so, michael cohen has made many statements to the house as i understand it, and the senate. he put out a statement talking about a project which was essentially, i guess, more or less of an option that we were looking at in moscow. everybody knew about it. it was written about in newspapers. >> go google. you won't find anything about this deal until after the election when it became interesting to investigators. and this is not a throw away lie. it matters. and you will see why after the next exhibit, which has three critical elements in just three sentences. listen. >> i didn't do the project. i decided not to do the project. so, i didn't do it. so we're not talking about doing a project. we're talking about not doing a

project. michael cohen, what he's doing is he was convicted -- he was convicted of various things unrelated to us -- >> the issue is not that the project never came to fruition. it's that it was in the works at a time when the president said he had no business with russia, no investments. not doing the deal doesn't excuse the president from lying about trying to get a deal done. and the president just said he decided not to do the deal. that's key. why? michael cohen had said originally when he lied to congress, that he decided that the deal was dead. that gave trump cover. trump's argument right there that he was busy with the race, he wasn't paying any attention, he didn't know anything about this. if that's true, how could he be the one to pull the plug? was he involved or not? lastly, cohen was not convicted of things unrelated to the president.

the opposite is true. they were almost all directly related to the president. do you think michael cohen paid off those women for himself? and now comes the one-two punch of trumpian character assassination, exhibit c. >> he was given a fairly long jail sentence, and he's a big pers -- weak person. and being weak, unlike other people you watch -- >> when the facts are not your friend, make the truth teller your foe. to the president, telling the truth is weak. other people, he's mentioned roger stone, jerome corsi, manafort, they're strong because they refuse to admit lies in the president's mind? is this a president or, again, a mob boss type of notion? then the last bit where the president says, the most, when he actually tells the truth. >> there would be nothing wrong if i did do it. i was running my business while i was campaigning. there was a good chance that i

wouldn't have won, in which case i would have gone back into the business. why should i lose lots of opportunities? >> he's right. there was nothing illegal, necessarily, about simply running his business while running for president. unusual, but not illegal. but the president kept at it because he never thought he would win. he was having cohen and the kids do all they could to maximize the campaign exposure because he thought he would lose and he wanted to make the most of it while he could. and that is very important in understanding why they would have kept doing this deal at a time when it would really smell bad. what a coincidence that the efforts to do this deal stopped on june 14th, 2016, the same day the washington post reported on the russian involvement in election hacks. and that takes us to the arguable larger truth. the president was lying about what he was doing because he knew it was wrong. and all the twisting and

attacking and fake this and hoax that can't make mueller believe that the president was lying about it any less. as we teach our kids and as walter scott explained perfectly, oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive. that's all for us tonight. thank you for watching cnn tonight. d. lemon starts right now. >> okay. it plmay not have been ill lega but it certainly shows you where his priorities were, right? at that point. >> he just said it. >> yeah. if you want to be -- >> he just said it. i may have lost. i was going to go back into the business. why would i deny myself any opportunities? >> there would be an opportunity missed. he couldn't pick up an opportunity a year later, two years later for -- >> he wanted to be in russia. they had been trying to do a deal there for awhile. he liked very much doing the miss universe there. he was enamored of putin. he wanted to g