hey, i'm brian stelter and this is reliable sources. a weekly look how the media really works, how the news gets made and how all of us can help make a better. n new and shocking rev lelations about misconduct at cbs. she says moonves took her whole acan rear away. >> plus is the weekly standard shutting down, and what would that say in the era of trump? and a brand new effort to make media work, to make a sustainable as a business.

first, how to make sense of all the damning new information about president trump, hush money payments, russia synergies and layers and layers of lies. friday's scramble to cover all the latest court filings happened on tv. i'm sure you saw it unfold as reporters read through 57 pages of cohen's crimes, 10 pages of manafort. it took a while to comprehend of what was revealed, but by now we know the headlines. the president has been implicated in two federal crimes. that's the michael cohen financial case not the russia conspiracy. robert mueller's findings about manafort and russia are also ominous for trump. it was just a glimpse of the full picture. "the washington post" says mueller flashed some cards in the probe, but are still hiding his hand. some columnist are going further saying mueller told us he's got

trump on collusion from a daily beast writer. what we know for sure is trump remains under investigation, doing things in realtime right in front of us that may count as witness tampering. but in trump world, the land of make believe, all of this is bogus. and unfortunately, too many commentators on the right are playing along and covering for trump. and notice of course, this weekend's big tweet, the most shocking tweet of all this weekend the president saying about the filings, that it totally clears the president and then he adds, thank you with an exclamation point. being delusional is even worse than lying but either way he's being deceptive. he's talking down to you, talking down to his fans, he's disrespecting his supporters and the rest of the country by constantly saying stuff that's not true.

and by the way, many of his allies, his aides, his former fixer michael cohen, his former campaign chair, paul manafort, all of them proven to have lied again and again. it's a sign of disrespect. and when we in the press repeat those lies, just quote rather trump without correctic hng hime just make the a badsation worse. we have an excellent line-up of guests to talk through it but let's start with cnn political analyst carl bernstein. thank you for coming on. some news from earlier in the day here on "state of the union," we hear jerry nadler who's of course going to be running a key house committee very soon what we're learning about michael cohen and trump and hush money payments, could he believes be an impeachable offense. what's your interpretation? >> it certainly looks like they are the kind of offenses that would call for impeachment

hearings into the conduct of the president of the united states. there's something much more important than just impeachment going on, and that is the fact that donald trump for the first time in his life is cornered. as a businessman he always could bully his way out of a corner. he always could buy his way out, cheat his way out. he is boxed in by mueller and the people around him know that he is. and it's on the question of collusion, possible collusion with russia and unquestionably a massive obstruction of justice that is now demonstrable for all to see led by the president of the united states to cover up whatever the dealings of himself, his family, his aides were with russia. we don't know what those dealings were in detail, but it's clear that mueller is now connecting the dots between a massive obstruction intended to

hide the treeuth about the trum campaign, trump, his business organization and his family from the investigators. >> from your sources and the folks you talked to, how much longer do you expect this to go on for? because i think there is sort of an exhaustion from members of the public and even some members of the media about this ongoing scandal. >> certainly there have been no leaks out of mueller's shop, and we don't know how long it's going to go on except he keeps developing new information. and as we saw in the important filings with the court on friday, this is crucial information that contradicts directly what president donald trump has been saying over the weekend, namely that somehow he's been exonerated by the special prosecutor. to the contrary. the opposite is the case, and also i've been talking to people in washington and his aides including his legal team are well aware that at least one of the principle witnesses who has

been interviewed by mueller, a major figure in this investigation, came out of being interviewed by mueller and said they know everything about russia. meaning, all of the president's -- donald trump, his business dealings in russia as well as russian figures trying to be in touch with the campaign. does that mean there is conspiracy or collusion? we don't know. but what we do know is that all of the lies, the most important lies told by trump, told by his son, told by his campaign ads, told by flynn, told by manafort, you can go on and on, they're all about russia. why is this if there's no collusion, if there's nothing there, if there's nothing to investigate? it's all about russia. >> there's a really interesting piece of reporting in the newspaper that's your alma mater, "the washington post," this morning's post describing

trump's reaction to all the damning information. one official termed a shrugged shoulder strategy for mueller findings. your reaction to that. >> so far it's been true of the base. they have believed so far anything trump tells them. however, it doesn't mean the base is all of the republican party if this conspiracy to obstruct justice is as huge as it looks. at some point some kind of important republicans are going to peel away from defending trump and then perhaps this house of cards will start to fall a bit because nobody wants to be defending the indefensible. and it looks certainly on the obstruction and what that obstruction was about, that we may be heading toward the indefensible for even many of

the president's backers. not the most adamant of them, not all of that 40% out there. but in congress there are two things happening in congress. one is what you're hearing in public from the congressman who were republicans and, two, what they're saying in private to each other. and they are shaken in private, many of them. and they are very worried about where this is going to go. and they're also very worried about donald trump's conduct since the mid-term elections. when he became trump, more aware of where the special prosecutor was headed, how boxed in he is, he has not been acting rationally in the regard of many members of republicans in congress. he has been acting in their words, not my words or journalists words, unhinged. much more than usual. and go to my colleague bob woodward's book where those closest to donald trump in terms of being his aides, cabinet

members, we saw it in what tillerson said the other day. they believe, many of them, that donald trump himself is a threat to the national security of this country. and we are seeing it as well in his reaction to mueller. you know, we could be in for a very, very rough ride the next few months as trump tries to fight this. we've never been in this territory with donald trump. we were there with richard nixon, but trump is a very different figure who has absolutely no regard for the rule of law, for the privacy of law, for tradition, for what the white house traditionally stands for, and this could be an event that makes the world tremble. what we do know is mueller is well on his way to connecting the dots in a way that is very grievously affecting the president of the united states in his presidency. >> after you and woodward

exposed watergate you said nixon was a criminal president and it was a criminal presidency. is the trump presidency a criminal presidency? >> i don't think we know completely yet. i think it's very obvious that there has been a criminal conspiracy led by the president of the united states to obstruct justice. it's hard to see otherwise in the filings that have been made public thus far. but on top of that we also know that there is criminal behavior by donald trump in the southern district of new york case in terms of ordering the payment or approving the payment of hush money to stormy daniels and another woman that michael cohen testified about. the purpose of paying that hush money was to defraud voters, to make voters unaware at this crucial matter of character that trump had paid these women for their silence would never be revealed while their campaign was on. so in that sense there also is

the prima facie evidence. it's about russia and all things russia and that is what mueller has been charged with. and the individual who came back saying they know everything ability russia, this is about russia in terms of what mueller was charged with investigating. >> carl, thank you so much. i'm grateful to have your expertise this morning. coming up we're just getting started and we have an all-star panel standing by in washington. we're going to talk about the dangers journalists face covering this story, connecting the dots. how we have to be incredibly careful when covering a story this complex. we'll be back in just a moment. ♪

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not sell you. and savings and checking accounts with no fees or minimums. because that's how it should be. you can open one from right here or anywhere in 5 minutes. seriously, 5 minutes... this is banking reimagined. what's in your wallet? welcome back to reliable sources. i found some space where fox commentator and snl actually agree on something. on tucker carlson's show on friday said the new legal findings from mueller's team and from the southern district of new york were basically a teaser, a coming attraction, a trailer for mueller's future report. and snl said the same thing. >> this week robert mueller released the teaser trailer for trump, end game. federal prosecutors said friday michael cohen committed two election related crimes at the

person identified as individual one. now, we don't know for sure who individual one is. but let's just say things are getting tense right now over at individual one tower. >> if we're only covering a teaser, a trailer for what's coming, how do we do that responsibly? susan, what are the challenges for journalists when we're covering this ongoing story and we're only looking at it through little soda straws, we can't see the whole story? >> well, first of all, brian, thank you very much. i have to say one lesson is humility and those who listen to them. if you went back and did a highlights reel of people talking about the mueller investigation a full year ago you would have heard a lot of speculation whether it's wrapping up and how are we

connecting the dots. i think what i would say is stick to the facts, read these extraordinary court filings. you know, as you pointed out earlier you had 47 pages in southern district of new york and also from the special prosecutor's office telling us more than we knew before about michael cohen, about paul manafort. but, you know, we have learned some striking facts and information that we didn't know a month or two ago. and to me i think it's very important to stick with the fact that first of all there's an entirely different alleged conspiracy now involving the president of the united states and an admitted felony violation by michael cohen in the payment of hush money in the immediate run up to the 2016 election. that's not something we knew about a year ago. and again you have this memorable phrase of individual number one. you know, it's going to go down i think in the history books

along with some of those memorable watergate phrases. you had unindicted conspirator. i think you're always going to remember individual number one and donald trump for starters. >> we have a graphic on the screen there. saying is this the end of the trump presidency, the beginning of the end, the trump nightmare. are there concerns some might be getting ahead of themselves? some might be going too far in the coverage? >> absolutely. that's what struck me about the coverage this weekend, it's the end, it's the beginning of the end. and it's all been labeled as opinions. but the post piece the latest set of the filings, nobody can save trump now. whenever i write anything predictive to trump in the media now i always think back to

election night and how certain i was what was going to happen in 2016 and how blown my mind was at midnight. it hurt our credibility i think and it actually in a weird way feeds into the narrative he's trying to spin to his base about us being irresponsible. so i think now more than ever we have to really not get out in front of our skis with what we know to be true. i was listening to carl bernstein and i thought he was just perfect. he emphasized the gravity of what we know for trump. but you noticed key points, he said we don't know where this was going, we don't know about him because he's so transgressive and he'll break every rule in the world essentially. so he wasn't predicting. and i think the consensus now is it looks like there's a case for

obstruction but not necessarily collusion. so to say that it's the beginning of the end, look, this is huge story. there's no narrative in american life fiction or nonfiction as well as trump v. mueller. it's got everything in american life. a man of rectitude versus the rule of law versus a man who will say anything, who scorns law. i think people don't even realize in our unconscious this is battle for souls. we wanted something that moved the story ahead and gave us closure. on the other hand, i think we pulled back by saturday and sunday, and i think we're in a better place now collectively. >> interestingly. david frum, what the other david is saying it gets to something i

ask a lot. why do you all cover trump so much? i think it's what zerdlic is saying. >> when people say you cover donald trump too much, donald trump has the potential to end organized human life on this planet in seven minutes. >> you're talking about nuclear weapons. >> yeah. and he's one of three human beings on earth who have the power to end human life on this plan m. if you believe who this person is, if there's evidence this person is mentally unstable or criminal, that's news worthy. look, i think there's an opposite danger for journalists. the ap headline that read, trump says he is cleared -- i'm not going to be able to quote this exactly verbatim. >> it's the worst. why are we still publishing

headlines that are just, quote, a liar? >> so the president said two things. there were people chanting we want trump, citing a tape taken at a rally of ney fascists in london, three of them. and the president also said the lesson of world war i and world war ii a united army does not work. the point is that the president's statements are not -- are news objects not news topics. and you have to treat them the way you would treat an allegation or potentially a defamatory statement. you have to treat them with tongs. and when the press doesn't do that, it also seriously misleads. also journalists have different practices. there's different segments of the media business. the imperative of being

responsible also means treating this president's statements in a different way than you'd treat the statements even of president nixon. nixon might lie but he would not completely deny. >> what we saw on friday and into the weekend is we're in this media environment with people can assembly the news themselves, can experience the news in realtime and that means you can reach your own conclusions about legal filings. it's different than in the '90s. >> we all remember watching cnn and reading some of the astonishing things out loud. i would say this, number one it is all going to come out. and what we're talking about

right now are just little bread crumbs compared with the overall picture we will ultimately get one way or the other. i remain quite confident with that. and i still say to all of my fellow commentators and myself don't pronounce judgment onto whether he has a case on collusion or not because we don't have an answer. and i think that is really dangerous and that is something that feeds into trump's narrative, number one. number two, we can't all follow along in realtime. i experienced it by watching this expert commentary on twitter, immediately kind of read through and discern the parts and read the filings myself directly on the train. i would say that's very significant. the prosecutors aren't going to come onto your show and tell us what to make of these bits and

pieces of information, however, we a, have instant access to many reliable experts that we didn't have in the past in realtime and i think that's a significant step forward. but importantly unfortunately it competes with built in narratives that president trump has spent the last year and half essentially trying to implant in the american public and among his followers in particular. he has pressed wherever possible to create a narrative about the mueller investigation. and i see it frankly even among journalists who say mueller doesn't really have a case on obstruction -- and to me that is the most irresponsible thing that i see people, even critics of president trump saying over and over again. what we know about the russian involvement in the 2016 campaign is much, much more than we knew

when this investigation was originally started. and it suggests a pattern of russian outreach to the trump campaign and their willingness to entertain that outreach that is very significant. the time line goes back farther than we thought. and again, why are people still even on this network, you know, opining that there's no evidence around conspiracy and collusion? i don't think that's the case but we don't know yet. >> we need to take the time to explain all of those facts you're talking about so people understand just how big this is. after the break a famed conservative voice not afraid to take on trump may be shutting down. we have a fresh reporting about the fate of the weekly standard right after this. the heavier i get. and while your pants struggle to support the heavier you, your roof struggles to support the heavier me. crash! and your cut-rate insurance

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on the right there are principled conservative media outlets that do really valuable reporting and then there are pro-trump propaganda outlets that lie and lie to protect their guy. unfortunately the propaganda seems to be winning. there's news this week that the weekly standard, a magazine that's been critical of trump for years is facing an uncertain future. so far the company is not commenting. let's continue the conversation with our panel and bring in max boot who's also joining me here in new york. max, you've been a contributor to the weekly standard in the past. what do you know about the magazine's future? >> talked to my friends over there and they're relatively opmitsic the magazine will survive probably under new ownership and unfortunately a

different name, they're unwilling to sell because they basically want to cannibalize their subscriber list to this new publication that's going to be more pro-trump. >> we'll see if it's pro-trump. they've hired some editors who have been critical of trump. >> i think the weekly standard has had apparently inquiries from people with money who are willing to set them up at a new publication so they think they will survive. >> moving now to the long time fox host who joined the state department as a spokeswoman a year and a half ago she's now nominated to be u.s. ambassador to the u.n. what do we do? she's not qualified for this job. what's your read on this? >> this is the fox trump nexus and it's hard to know where the fox network ends and the trump

administration begins. >> let's put our graphic on the screen. this merger, it is effectively a merger, may be good for trump but not america. >> they put up these alternative facts and he actually believes them. it's hard to know how much of this is the cynical and lying and how much of this being credulous. it's quite possible he believes the caravan really was this huge threat to america, and based on those assumptions he led the republican party in disaster in november and i think there will be further disasters for the republican party, trump and for the american if he tones to believe this none sense fox pumps out. >> this is one of the biggest examples yet of the fox news influence and the trump administration. >> look, the trump

administration has made it an affirmative goal to damage america's relationships with allies. just last week secretary of state pompeo in brussels and delivered an america first speech and denigrating nato. and the united states -- richard neln, a very etiffective intern troll. the european union is talking about forming a single european army. and avoiding that has been a major goal of american policy for a long time. america wants european forces in nato, not outside of it. but because the united states has become so visibly unreliable and selfish under president

trump. >> the right leaning firms, its polls do not normally meet up to standards. trump's favorite pollster were the least accurate in the mid-terms. this is problem we've got where trump repeats this stuff and it's totally bogus. >> this goes back to our opening segment, when the filings on the mueller came out friday, if you watched fox without sound as i did through the second or third time as i did, you kept seeing a headline pop up that said no collusion, and the or the headline was witch hunt exposed. and it just kept repeating itself, and thought that's what they're reducing this to. and for people who don't want to

hear experts, here's where you go. you get the little thing that says no collusion and he believes it. >> but it feedback on it and that's what they're feeding the base. it's really dangerous. >> i have to go. but i don't want to let the week go without remarking on george h.w. bush funeral. that was the feel good event of the week, what a sad thing it is. >> it already feels like a year ago, indays feel lee like years. and the juxtaposition between the behavior of this president and the words in which the former president george h.w. bush was memorialized there couldn't be a bigger juxtaposition. words like character, integrity, humility, the absence of the big "i" as president bush used to

call it. you're really in trouble when you start lying to yourself and believing it. and, you know, if president trump really believes all those tweets, he's in for a rough few months would be i think a prediction that we can safely make. >> all right, thanks, everyone. up next here, shocking new allegations about former cbs boss les moonves. one of moonves' accusers and attorney will join me next. and one of the best nights of the year on cnn, cnn heros. >> we're humans helping humans and they need our help. >> we are truly giving the gift of momobility. >> we're building something that matters a lot more than we do. >> they're heroes today and every day. >> this is nice. >> it's all about solving problems.

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new allegations, even more allegations about shocking behavior by former ceo les moonves. abuse and a cover-up reported by the "the new york times" which obtained a draft of the report delivered to be cbs very soon. hanging in the balance here is a huge amount of money, $120 million that moonves was owed according to it contract. but if the board can conclude he was fired for cause, they won't have to pay him this money. but we need to know what happened at cbs, what went wrong and why it was able to be kept secret for so long. so let's get into the thereat now with my next guest. she is one of the women who has accused les of sexual assault and harassment. moonves denies all of it and

says he's never engaged any nonconsensual sexual relationships. she's joining me now from los angeles along with gloria allred. thank you for coming on the program. you say your career was ruined by les moonves and what he did. tell me how he was able to get away with this. >> because they can get away with this, that's why. and it's the same thing when i found out that i wasn't getting the same amount of money as the men in my -- as a vice president. there was no one that we could go to, which is why it took me so long to really go to the police because you couldn't -- >> and when you did go to the police they said the statute of limitations had run out. but now at least i'm glad cbs hired these law firms to

apparently investigate what happened. you spoke with the investigators wh . wh what was that experience like? >> i thought that that was fine and i thought it was fair. >> it was fair. and gloria, you've been representing several other women who had other encounters with moonves. can you tell us how many and have they also spoken with the law firm? >> yes, brian, i do represent four women who wished to speak to the investigators, to the law firm that the cbs board has hired to do a report to the board about mr. moonves and whether or not he engaged in any sexually inappropriate conduct with him. i know there are rumors that the report might come out this week, but i can tell you that as to the fourth woman that i represent, we are meeting with the investigators for the first

time on tuesday in new york. but i will agree with phyllis as to the other three they have interviewed and i have been present during those interviews, i do feel the investigators were being very fair, very professional and sensitive to the women who alleged they are victims of mr. moonves. >> it's good to hear. there's a lot of great people that work at cbs. they deserve a better culture and proper outcomes here. one of the questions is about that $120 million. is it really conceivable moonves could still be paid that amount of money even though "the new york times" said he destroyed evidence of text messages that were incriminating, they tried to cover it up. >> it really depends on the terms of his contract and is he going to be fired for cause, is

he not going to be fired for cause? we don't know whether or not it's true that in fact he destroyed evidence. that would in fact be very serious. and i'm sure if mr. moonves has not been honest with his employers, cbs, cbs is going to be -- and this is putting it mildly, very upset with him or if he's hidden evidence, hasn't been truthful, misled. but we don't know whether or not that's true. but this is all about mr. moonves and my concern is those who allege they are victims, those who have had the courage to come forward, they've sacrificed a lot, they're taking legal risks and doing it because they want cbs to have the full report. i hope that this report will be made public, but i also hope that cbs will do more than

perhaps just donate millions of dollars to organizes. they need to prove and they need to compensate the victims because they should not just be a footnote in all this but rewarding those who have had the courage to come forward and saying this is complete misconduct and taking advantage of them when they were -- >> sorry, to interrupt but what you alleged happened in the '80s and early 2000s and of course he ran for 20 years. so this is something that spans decades. i wonder for you, phyllis, the idea, the possibility of him being paid so much money, so much severance, how does that sit with you?

>>, you know, if i think about it, that would really get me upset about it. but my feeling was i just wanted him to be miserable. i didn't care about the money. he did ruin my career, and, you know, you work hard at that. and especially in those days when there were fewer women. and he -- when i would not go along with his games, then he moved my office down into, like, the cellar, and made it very clear that i couldn't stay there. >> so your office got smaller and smaller, when you rejected him, at one point a violent incident you allege and your office was squeezed away. >> exactly.

and i recall when he picked me up and threw me against the wall, i said to my secretary, did you see that, did she hear? and i thought, well, she's smart. >> and regardless of the statute of limitations it's never too late to do the right thing so that the and they are interviewing and interested in interviewing women who allege they were victims even before mr. moonves came to cbs. so the time period now in which the report is going to have to be done and turned over is getting shorter and shorter. i would urge anyone who alleges that she has information about mr. moon ves, positi -- moonves contact cbs and have a full and

transparent report. >> that's a good idea. >> can't argue with that. >> gloria, phyllis, thank you for being here. it's not just about moonves. the law firms are looking into the allegations against charlie rose, jeff fager and others. there's an allegation that don hewitt was engaged in harassment and cbs had to pay off an accuser for many, many years, more than $5 million over time. so there is a lot here and hopefully more information will come out later this week because the cbs board is having its annual meeting on tuesday. more to come on this. of course, moonves denies the allegations, denies environment -- ever engaged in a cover-up. there are more than a dozen women who say otherwise. quick break here on "reliable sources." then a turn to news, media business models y more and more web sites are making you pay. we'll talk with one start-up founter rig founder right after this. capital one is anything but typical.

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with advertising revenue less reliable, more people are turning to subscriptions. following the lead of "the wall street journal" and bloomberg, the atlantic and vanity fair and new york magazine and course and others are asking or making people pay. even buzz feed is trying out a membership model w that in mind, with that context, there a really interesting start-up trying something, trying a membership model and doing it out in the open, raising money. this is the website called it will only launch if it can raise $2.5 million. here's the thing. the deadline is one week from now. so far can you see right there the site says it raised 1.6,

almost $1.7 million from about 26,000 people. the clock is ticking. they have a b. a week left to raise the money. let's talk about this strategy. i'm joined right now by the founder of the correspondent rob wineberg. great to see you. >> great to see you. so you do this in the netherlands and it worked well. >> at the correspondent.com, we're trying to build a movement for unbreaking news. >> what does that mean, unbreaking news? >> we live in a culture where we get breaking news headlines on the phone or screen every day, all day long. all that news is making us cynical and making us less informed about the world we live in. because news basically tells you about the sensational exceptions to the rule. so you never really get to understand the rule. we try to flip that xriment by shifting the focus from the sensational to the foundational. we do this in collaboration with

our readers and on an ad free platform. that's why it's so important for people to go to the correspondent.com and join us today. that is what keeps us ad free in the first place. >> i want to see more and more startups. i'm in favor of more and more news startups, new brands trying new things. what is going to happen if you don't make it to 2.5 million? >> if we don't hit the do or die goal, the people that signed up get their money back. >> so it's a kick starter? >> yes. but we're confident that we're going to make it. we also did this five years ago in the netherlands. we set a world record in crowd funding back then. we raised $1.7 million in 30 days. we have to raise a little bit more because we're going international. but we're confident we're going to make it. >> why is it that more and more of the sights are going in the subscription direction? it is partly because ad revenue is tougher. but a membership model means something special to be a member of something. what does it mean to you?

>> we distinguish between subscribers and members. subscribers basic willally pay product to get access. we cam the readers members because they join our cause. they pay for it because they think the journalism is important and also contribute not just their money but they also contribute their knowledge an experience to our reporting process. so it's a very different relationship. its no the a consumer product relationship. it's a supporter movement relationship. >> really interesting language around news. talk about a movement. it's like npr. people are members. you want to interact with the audience all the time and work with them. that's interesting. >> also, being ad free makes a real difference. because being ad free means we don't have v. to grab your attention to sell that attention to an advertiser. >> right. >> we can focus on collaborating and understanding the underlying force that's shape our world.

it's hope we grant your attention because you think our journalism is important. >> awesome. rob, thank you so much for being here. best of luck with it. we're out of time here on tv. we'll see you online all the time on reliablesources.com and this time back here on tv next week. >> trump implicated. prosecutors say donald trump directed the former fixer to break the law. an accusation that could set the stage for an historic clash. will house democrats push to impeach the president? >> this period of being able to lie and not being called into account is coming to an end. >> we'll talk with the top democrat on the house judiciary next. >> plus, mounting tensions. the president lashes out about the russia investigation. >> there is absolutely no collusion. >> some of the fellow republicans are set to rebuke him on foreign policy. might a white house shake-up