memorize the elements, try using this song to help you. ♪ >> great stuff. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week, i will see you next week. i'm brian stelter and this is "reliable sources." our weekly look at the story behind the story of how the media really works, how the news gets made and how all of us can help make it better. this hour the trump show in prime time, should his pro wall speech have been given wall to wall o coverage? we will get to that. plus what's going to happen at cbs news now that susan zurinski is taking the helm. megyn kelly, where will she land next. first, this thought about the news cycle we're in. the news is not just a rough draft of history as many often say. it's a woefully incomplete rough

draft. sometimes the most important facts, the single most important details, are not filled in until years later. sometimes the secrets are buried so deep and other times what's staring us all right in the face is so uncomfortable that we try to look the other way. all of this is my way of asking what will the final draft say about president trump? we know what the incomplete rough draft says, it says there's something very fishy between trump and vladimir putin. people have been asking for months, for years what does putin have on trump? has trump been compromised? especially after the helsinki summit, journalists and experts looked at trump's behavior and said they saw something strange, something sinister. now come these back to back "new york times" and "washington post" stories. the times revealing that the fbi opened a counterintelligence inquiry in may 2017 to see whether trump was secretly

working for russia. maybe they thought maybe he was knowingly working on russia's behalf or maybe he had just unwittingly fallen under moscow's influence. so that's the times. the post 22 hours later reported that trump has, quote, gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal the details of his conversations with putin, keeps his own aides in the dark and with the one point taking his own interpreter's notes. trump when given a chance to flatly deny anything untoward, he skipped the opportunity. >> are you now or have you ever worked for russia, mr. president? >> i think it's the most insulting thing i've ever been asked. i think it's the most insulting article i've ever had written. >> that is not a no. but trump went on, let's listen to morph what he said next. >> and if you read the article you would see that they found absolutely nothing, but the head line of that article it's calling the failing "new york

times" for a reason. >> the thriving "new york times" did not report that they found absolutely nothing. what the "times" actually said was, quote, no evidence has emerged publicly that mr. trump was secretly in contact with or took direction from russian government officials. publicly. they may have found nothing. the government officials may have found nothing at all or they may have found a lot, but it hasn't been made public. we don't know. this is what i mean when i say that the news is a woefully incomplete draft of history. journalists are trying their best to get to the bottom of this, journalists and commentators try to fill in the holes with speculation and conjecture and all types of theories, but we do not have answers to the pressing questions posed by these two huge newspaper stories. sometimes i think about just how little we know in the moment when we're covering stories like this. i think back to the rnc convention, running into paul manafort, sizing him up, quizzing him about trump, and

now, now that he's in solitaire confinement somewhere in virginia, i think about all the secrets he was keeping, the crimes and the coverups and how there was so so much we didn't know back then. we didn't know the actual story that was right underneath. yes, there were suspicions at the time, but the story was incomplete. and the same thing is true with michael cohen, he sat right here on this set defending trump on this program and lots of others. with he e-mailed, we texted over the years, but not about what really mattered. what really mattered were his secrets and his lies and of course now he is about to go off to prison. prosecutors say cohen acted at trump's direction. these stories, they are the rough draft, but sometimes the most important parts of the story are unknown for years and sometimes all we can do in the media is ask the right questions. stay skeptical, but be open-minded. i mean, the previously unthinkable has become not just thinkable, but it's being talked about all over tv.

>> the fbi opened up an investigation into the president of the united states to see whether or not he was working on behalf of russia. >> my reaction first, peter, it's a remarkable sentence that you just read on national television. remarkable to think that a president of the united states would be the subject of a counterintelligence investigation. you have to take a moment to digest that. >> yes, let's take a moment. let's take more than a moment to digest this. let's not let this story just breeze by like everything else in the news cycle these days. the u.s. president possibly working for the russians. possibly an unwhiting pawn. something the fbi was investigating. why are these leaks happening and why are they happening now? what does robert mueller know? how much longer will we all have to wait for answers? let's ask cnn political analyst carl bernstein, he is here with me in new york this morning. carl, i'm a little frustrated by

how long this is all taking. i think rudy giuliani has a joint when he says, come on, let's see the evidence. at some point don't the american people deserve these answers sooner rather than later? >> i think you have to wait until the end of a very deliberative investigation that mueller is making and what we know and what that "washington post" story and "the new york times" stories show is that mueller is operating, as has been members of the president's own national security team, mattis, among others, some people who are still there, some who have left, that indeed he has become a pawn of the russians. now, whether that is a whiting pawn, a unwhiting pawn, a half whiting pawn, that is something that perhaps mueller's report will tell us because one of the things mueller is doing is he is looking at the obstruction, the obstruction of justice by the president of the united states, that seems to be apparent and

whether the obstruction itself has furded putin's aims and becomes part of some kind of exclusive notion. >> you teed this up on wednesday, i noticed this on anderson coop's show, you teed up the point that the "washington post" and times are making. >> there is has been an obstruction of justice, no question about that, no question about the president's involvement in that obstruction. one of the questions that mueller is trying to answer, i believe, is whether that obstruction itself furd furthered the interest of the russians. >> you said the obstruction is not separate from the collusion question. these exactly what these newspapers are signaling this weekend. who you did you know this? where is this coming from? >> first of all, "the new york times" and the "washington post" were more advanced on this story than i was, but i did know something and part of what i know comes from lawyers of some

of the other defendants in this matter who have appeared before mueller, including members of the joint defense team which collaborates with the exhaust and those lawyers believe the president has been lying at every turn about his relationship with russia, about those of his aides. look, let us look at all of the lies, follow the money, follow the lies. they are all mostly and most vehemently about russia. whether we are talking about flynn, trump, his son, kushner, back to lying about questions having to do with russia, about what happened at the trump tower meeting. the president of the united states drafts a totally false statement about what happened at that meeting that his son was at. look, you set it up right, we don't know the answers, but what we do know is that donald trump has tried to convince us that unless there is some kind of

smoking gun, a recording of him in the room with putin saying, yes, vladimir, i will do your bidding, there has been, quote, no collusion. that's nonsense. what this counterintelligence investigation was about, unprecedented, the fbi -- and this is not about the deep state, this is about the most serious counterintelligence people we have in the u.s. government saying, oh, my god, the president's words and actions lead us to conclude that somehow he has become a whiting, unwhiting or half whiting pawn certainly in some regards to vladimir putin. look, trump keeps going back to the idea we need better relations are russia. could be. he could well be right. but from a point of view of strength and what everybody can see is that he has not acted with russia from the united states having a strength advantage with russia, rather he

has done what appears to be putin's goals. he has helped putin destabilize the united states and interfere in the election, no matter whether it was purposeful or not, and that is part of what the draft of mueller's report, i'm told, is to be about. what fits hand in glove is both the coverup and the possibility likelihood -- we know there has been collusion. we know there has been collusion by flynn. we know there has been collusion of some sort by manafort. the question is, yes, what did the president know and when did he know it? but also it could be unwhiting, half whiting, that's what we're going to find out. but the idea that this is just benign behavior and conduct, there is nothing benign about what the consequences of this having. what the hell happened at helsinki? dan coats, the director of

national intelligence, still does not know what happened at helsinki because the president as a great "washington post" story points out hasn't allowed his aides to know or to say what they know about what happened at helsinki and in his other meetings with putin. why is he so beholden? you know, it's his son that told us years ago, hey, we do a tremendous amount of business in russia. it is the source of a huge amount of our family income. well, clearly mueller is looking at that. >> i was watching good morning america this weekend and both mornings they led with snowstorms and scares at malls and other stories and not this. i just keep wondering if the public is ill served if we don't make it really clear what the stakes of this story are. how can a morning story not lead with this drama i go he is is what i'm saying. >> i think plenty of times we

lead with this drama. >> okay. i agree. >> and we lead also with what is becoming the looming question over all of this. even fox reporters are now asking this question of some of their sources, and that is, do republicans particularly believe that this president is a therea to the national security as my colleague bob woodward's book demonstrates and as mattis, mccastor, kelly, others, tillerson, came to believe that the president of the united states himself is a threat to the security of the united states. to the national security. we never had a situation like this before. so now we need to be looking at that question, what are republicans on the hill saying to each other? fox -- those fox reporters know some of what they're saying, just as ap reporters, cnn reporters, "washington post" reporters, we now know that there are more and more

questions being asked is the president of the united states, is donald trump, fit to be the president of the united states and what this mueller story and what the "washington post" story and "the new york times" story reflects is the question of whether he is fit to be the president, as does the government shutdown. there is a question of competence. we do not have an effective governance from the white house right now. we have chaos, misinformation, disinformation, lying and never before has lying -- look, nixon lied. nixon lied to further the coverup. he was a criminal president, but throughout his presidency nixon did not lie about virtually everything of importance. we have -- and fox news reporters know this, too -- we have a president of the united states who lies. it sounds pejorative when i say this. one of the problems we have as reporters is it's so unique to

be saying these things that sound pejorative when, in fact, they're based on hard repertoire y'all contextual fact. >> it's sad but it's true and we have to say with what's true. carl, thank you for being with us this morning. much more ahead including this question, who is really in charge, the president or conservative media boosters? we will analyze his call to jeanine pirro right after this. i'm a fighter. always have been. when i found out i had age-related macular degeneration, amd, i wanted to fight back. my doctor and i came up with a plan. it includes preservision. only preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd. that's why i fight.

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do you remember who wants to be a millionaire? my favorite lifeline was always phone a friend. it was so exciting, phone a friend. that's exactly what president trump did on saturday night. he called into jeanine pirro's talk show and campaigned and complained about his opponents. here is the thing, he called into jeanine pirro's show, he made some news, some misstatements but he knows how powerful and influential piro is. piro, sean hannity, others on fox have been pressuring him to hold the line, demand funding for the border wall, keep the government shut down if that's what it takes. here is a couple of those examples. >> i am pleading with you. >> i want the president to hold firm. >> it's time to build the wall. >> that's been the message. lately those conservative hosts

have shifted into an anti-democrat message, making sure they're challenging the democrats with regards to the shutdown, but the call to jeanine pirro was trump's second interview with a friend this week, he also brought sean hannity along for his visit to the border in mcallen, texas, and then chatted with him there. >> you know, i watched last night, you are not fake news, actually, you are real news. >> he was talking about what he was hearing on hannity's show, what he had learned on hannity's show. the president continues to learn talking points from hannity's hour on fox and tweet out the talking points and use them in speeches that even kind of felt like he was using those talking points in that oval office address the other day. who is really guiding this shutdown? who is really in charge? i wonder how much responsibility we should assign to right wing media hosts. let's talk about it all of it with oliver darcy, gabby orr and katie rodgers. katie, i was going to go to bed last night but i stayed up for

jeanine pirro's interview with the president. what is it like, these phone calls? past presidents didn't call into talk shows. >> i mean, it's fox and friends, he needs his friends around him, he is at a precarious point in his presidency. the longest government shutdown ever. this is a way for him to continue this call-in response that you pointed out with these fox personalities who give him talking points, who say, well, mr. president, shouldn't we have a national emergency? shouldn't we build the with a you will? couldn't you get the funds this way? this is an opportunity for the president to go and call it prime time, i don't know if prime time is on is a et. >> it koupts, yeah. >> and to say, i'm doing these things and i could do these things if i wanted to. he's talking to his friends and the 30% of americans that he cares about. >> is this, gabby, the conservative media shutdown? >> i think that he's certainly relied conservative media in the last 24 to 48 hours more heavily than he did earlier on in this shutdown. part of reason for that is he

thought he was impervious to the criticism that would come from shutting the government down when this thing began. no you that people are no longer getting their paychecks, no you that we are hearing heart breaking stories from furloughed federal workers it's becoming more difficult for him to shape the narrative in a way that's favorable to him. that's why we see him reach out to people like jeanine pirro, bring sanity along on the border trip. i think we will see more outrage to conservative media. >> there was this headline in the post, trump treats the border like a national disaster, he even dresses the part. we took a look at the president responding to hurricanes, responding to other disasters, and then visiting the border in mcallen, texas, you will see he essentially wears the exact same thing at every appearance. the "washington post" is right, he is dressing the part. oliver, his attire to talk about a crisis flies in the face of what we actually see at the border. >> right. we have reporting that shows it was pretty tank which will at

the border. there are people crossing but it's not the national emergency that i think trump has painted. it's not the chaos, violence, crime that trump is tweeting about. >> he's also getting that from hannity and others on fox and the right wing media. >> right. i think that's where a lot of his supporters are getting it. that's why you see outrage to these outlets. he understands that his media personalities like rush limbaugh, sean hannity, they control his base. he wants to solidify his support with this base by appealing to them. >> they will say that's offensive, how dare you say that rush limbaugh controls the base. >> i think that there is an argument to be made that sean hannity, rush limbaugh, an colter, matt drudge control more of the media than trump does. when they started criticizing him initially he changed his mind. he realizes that the new york times and "washington post" can write as many negative stories as they want on trump and he will be okay with his base

because his base doesn't trust those outlets. >> so do the democrats just negotiate with rush limbaugh? >> that's effectively what they're doing. they're negotiating with someone who is like sean hannity, i mean, i don't see much daylight right now between sean hannity and donald trump. >> in the past hannity has been described as trump's shadow chief of staff. that makes me wonder about the deputy chief of staff bill shine. katie, you had a great story this week about bill shine and his role at the white house, six months in as the coms chief, what is he doing and not to go. you quoted a senior official who said mr. shine's new colleagues have not been impressed by what they considered time worn suggestions such as the president not tweeting so much. bill shine comes in, that's what he has to offer? mr. president, don't tweet so much? reporting about bill shine's new role to the white house. >> he has contributed more than suggesting that the president shouldn't tweet as much, but people in the white house and

outside and people who were close to mr. ailes say that he doesn't have a strategic media mind, media savvy and the president as we have reported and know has complained that bill shine hasn't delivered on this early promise of i'm going to get you good coverage. the point people made to us in this piece is good coverage is sort of impossible when you have a president who doesn't really need you at the end of the day, he will take over his own media strategy. so the problem, you know, bill shine has is trying to navigate the president's personality and get his message across when the president at the end of the day will do and tweet, as we know, what he wants. >> right, if the president wants to call into judge janine he will, and, yet, gabby to bring it back to russia and the conversations about the "washington post" and new york times stories this week, he calls into jeanine pirro's show, she asks him have you ever been

a russian agent and he avoids the question, he dodges the question. is that a fair assessment? what he did and said was he complained about "the new york times." he could have just said, of course not. i wonder if journalists come away -- we take that and we run with that and then he gets even angrier at the press and this vicious cycle continues. >> to some extent it was certainly an underwhelming interview in the sense that we didn't get anything out of the president which would have been a definitive response to that question which is an important question following the story we had on friday night. that being said i think this president seems to think that what he tweets out and the comments that he has made are sufficient enough and there is no reason for him to go beyond what he says on twitter and even while appearing on fox news that there is still, you know, a broader audience he is trying to reach with this criticism of the media, the thing that feeds his base, keeps them enticed and supporting him that he is a he not going to get by commenting on the russia investigation. so, you know, i think that that was part of the strategy there, but he let's his tweets speak

for himself and that's what he really relies on. i don't think we can expect him to touch on subjects like this that are so sensitive. >> he created a new framing for sunday morning which was the president responds to blank. when, in fact, i think we need to focus on what the times and post reported which is shocking and scary. because it becomes trump responds a framing that's a little more favorable to him. oliver, stick around, quick break him and then a big debate we've been having in the newsroom here and across the country, to air or not to air the president's misstatements were on full display during his oval office address this week. could his recent performance lead networks to say no the next time he asks for air time? t wha. is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. boost® high protein. be up for life.

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trump wants to address the nation will the broadcast networks say yes to his request and air them live? let me back up and explain why i'm asking. the fight over the now record breaking government shutdown is happening mostly on tv and twitter since there are no real negotiations going on. those prime time addresses the other day clearly is it not move public opinion in president trump's direction. his new cnn poll shows no real change among democrats or republicans between december and january. what did increase by 5% is public disapproval of trump's job as president. look, the arguments in the president's speech some of them were clearly off-base, he claimed that the wall would be paid for indirectly by the great new trade deal with mexico that hasn't been ratified, he claimed that every day borders -- border agents encounter thousands of illegal immigrants trying to enter the country, the number is

hundreds not thousands. there were the usual falsehoods but all the broadcast networks aired those falsehoods live. there is dissent inside the networks about doing it. it was comedians that brought this up. seth meyers say this -- >> just because trump wants to address the nation doesn't mean networks should air it. otherwise they are just passing on his lies unfiltered. >> this didn't used to be a debate. when presidents wanted to address the nation, the broadcast networks said yes. once in awhile they might try to change the time or the day, there was one occasion in 2014 when a barack obama speech was turned down by the broadcasters. there were lots of nuanced reasons for that, but for the most part the president wants to speak, the broadcast networks take it live. we are in a different age now. we are in this age of alternative facts which make this a real conversation. so let's have it now with the executive editor at the pulitzer

center and a former nbc news executive who is now the communication school dean at hofstra university. were the broadcast networks right to show this live this week? ? i think it has been a tradition as you alluded to that when presidents of either party request time on broadcast networks to speak to the nation about something important that networks have, you know, quietly discussed it, but have always said yes. i think the question then becomes is the president speaking to the nation as the head of government or as the head of a political party? to the extent that it becomes partisan and where he's trying to make a political case, then it becomes a bit more difficult. there is no network that would ever turn down president obama talking about we captured osama bin laden, but that's completely different from trying to put his party forward as being right in a dispute as we have now with the shutdown. >> mark, you used to be in the room for these discussions at nbc. did nbc and the others do the right thing? >> brian, i don't think they had

much choice. this was the president's first request of this kind for an oval office address, it was about a crisis, whether self-inflicted or not, it's clearly a crisis the government shutdown. i wouldn't go so far as ted koppel said that you always have to give the white house the benefit of the doubt. this white house has made a habit of consistently even casually misleading and deceiving the public and the press and as indira pointed out what you got was a political speech, a recycling of talking points, no new announcements, facts or proposals. this is a tradition that goes back decades and it really stems from a time when there was no other way for a president to immediately address the public at large other than road blocking the broadcast networks. that's not the case anymore. we have cable networks, the president demonstrates daily that twitter is a powerful weapon to use in communicating with the public. road blocking the networks isn't the only way to do it. there is a second point i think

that has to be in the minds of every broadcast executive and in the networks, there is something like 1,600 broadcast television stations in the country. just a small handful of those are actually owned by the broadcast networks. there are station ownership groups, sinclair, for example, which owns over 150 nations affiliated with the networks. had one of the networks decided not to air this address or in the future if one of the networks decides not a air a presidential address, it is entirely possible groups like sinclair might simply order their 100 plus stations to air that address anyway. sinclair has already made it a habit to order local stations to air certain commentaries, they have ordered local stations to air interviews conducted by boris epstein who is a former surrogate of the president. >> the president's speech was not persuasive, it was not effective, he is bad at those formats, the polls show it didn't work, by work we mean move public opinion.

this is an interesting debate, we are in this era where he lies to us daily so should we broadcast his lies? mark, he also calls networks like nbc enemies. i wonder, you know, does that change the obligation of a network like nbc to cover him differently? >> i don't think news rooms are going to take that much into consideration. journalists are used to being called names a lot and just in the last 48 hours in his tweets and in presidential statements we have heard words like sleaze and hack and that's the new language of washington. i don't think that's going to be so much a factor. i think the standard has to be is there something new here? is there a justification as indira pointed out like when we're going to war, like when the challenger exploded where the country really wants to hear from the chief executive writ large. >> we have the shutdown block in the corner of the screen, the impacts continue to be covered by all the major networks and newspapers. we are hearing about the real

world effects. let me show you a sound bite here, laura ingraham does not appreciate that at all. watch. >> well, their latest tactic and we will see more in the coming days is to feature the sob stories of government workers who still, by the way, have not missed a paycheck. rank, emotional manipulation, pure propaganda. >> give me a break, laura. there are obviously many real world effects of the shutdown affecting many americans. we can show a scroll from cnn.com, 77 different real world effects listed on cnn.com. what's your reaction to a right wing critic saying these are just sob stories. >> it's pretty insensitive and also lacking in knowledge on her part. i don't know what she's talking about saying the people haven't missed a paycheck. >> that was on thursday, then it was on friday with the paychecks. even on thursday she knew it was coming. come on. >> it's ridiculous. the issue and i think the media

has done a really good job on this, at least the national news media has, i think, covered not only real world stories because these are human stories, we have to talk about the 800,000 federal workers who are working without pay or not working at all, it's not a vacation that they want to be on. with he also snead to talk about the real world effects on the rest of us americans who are being affected by the lack of important government services. one thing that the "washington post" did really smartly was early on they were covering how this was going to affect people's tax returns and it was going to affect also food stamp disbursements if it went on for a duration of this month, and then immediately you actually saw reaction out of the white house with the white house saying, well, actually, we're going to make sure that we do pay tax returns. we are going to make sure that we do have an allotment for food stamps. so they are noticing the coverage, they are reacting to it. i think the other point you made is about the false narrative that the president gives whether it's on a prime time address or

in his tweets or whatever and that just puts a further pressure on the media and i think they have been stepping up to the plate in this regard in terms of to go realtime fact checking. when we take presidential addresses because they are newsworthy or because we don't want to be seen as buys aed for not taking them when the president asks then it's important for all news outlets to present realtime counter with the facts. and that's not about partisanship, that's really about doing our duty to give the american people facts and separate it from fiction and spin. >> all right. thank you so much for being here. great talking with you. please come back soon. a quick break and then a move to cbs news and a big move there. what took so long, though? what took so long for a female president to be named at cbs news? >> tech: at safelite autoglass we know that when you're spending time with the grandkids... ♪ music >> tech: ...every minute counts.

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♪ let's talk about that when you get here. ♪ the united states virgin islands. susan zirinsky a 46-year

veteran of cbs news one of the most beloved people in the building was named president of the news division this week. the question everyone has been asking is what took so long? she's the first female president of the cbs news. what took so long? the timing also highlights how women are often called in during times of crisis or times of trouble at companies, not just news divisions but lots of companies. in addition to taking on ratings challenges zirinsky is going to be challenged to restore morale at the network after a series of me too scandals. let's talk about it with joanne lit man and the author of that's what she said, a book all about this sort of problem, this situation, in workplaces across the country. what do they doll it, a glass cliff when women are hired in roles like this. >> the glass cliff was joined by british academics. it shows that women typically get the top job, when they do, when a company is in precarious

position and then the women are given this incredibly difficult job and when they don't succeed very often are given the blame for the enterprise. >> it happened at nbc news as well. deborah chernis was brought in, she had to repair things there. it's incredible we are celebrating the firsts in the first place. >> and that to me is the core issue here, is why is it taking so long? the news industry has a deplorable record of getting women into top positions in leadership. if you think about this, women make up more than two-thirds of journalism majors and mass communication majors. but then when you get into the newsroom look at what happens. right? first of all, in television, for example, there was a study done that found that male anchors and male correspondents outnumber their female counterparts three to one. >> three to one. >> and if you look at newspapers and digital outlets, men have

the majority of by lines, particularly front page by lines. then you look at what does that, then, lead to? it leads to the way we view news, who we view as news, what stories we view as news. i mean, for example, more than 75% of the experts that we quote in the media are male. there is a study, fascinating study, that found -- it looked at all english language news sites across -- this is globally and it found that 77% of the people who we talk about are male, and it actually found -- i just want to give you this one quote, this found that women are routinely marginalized and symbolically annihilated in news. >> you were a former editor at "usa today," your successor was a woman. i say, okay, that's progress maybe and yet most other major papers in the country are run by men. it's a problem in television

networks, newspapers as well. what is the solution? i hate to ask that in a 30-second question. >> you have to start at the bottom. you have to start looking at who are the women that are coming up, and the other thing is, i find this is important, when i became an editor, i was dragged kicking and screaming into editor. i didn't see myself in that role. >> that's interesting. >> at the "wall street journal" my boss said you're going to be good at editing. i was like i'm a reporter. i don't see myself in that role. he said just try it. once i did i realized that i really was well suited to it. there is a lot of women who simply don't put their hands up while men do. %-p >> no, it's on the men. >> it's on the men. it's on managers, male or female. it is on the managers, the newsroom leaders, you into he had to identify that at that ent lent and look at the people who maybe aren't putting their hands up because very often it's women and also underrepresented minorities. as i was research that's what she said, the data was very,

very clear and, in fact, it changed the way that i managed because i noticed that when there were openings white guys would put their hands up whether they were qualified or not, but there were a lot of very qualified people who could have been in the pool, particularly women and minorities, who weren't even saying, hey, i'd like to be considered. i started actually proactively going out, bringing people in my office and saying, do you know what, you didn't put your hand up, you don't have to, i'm not going to force you to, but you would be qualified to be in the pool. not that you would necessarily get the job, but you're qualified to be in the pool. if you're not interested in this job, let's talk about your future. let's talk about what you're interested in. >> so it's a management issue. >> it's a management issue for us to recognize the incredible talent that is there and make sure we nurture it, identify it, bring these people up and give them the stretch assignments and high profile assignments that a lot of guys are volunteering for but there is an awful lot of brilliantly at that ebt willed people who are out there.

it was having to me as well that susan zirinsky in an interview with the new york times said that she had had the opportunity but never put her hand up for it. she never threw her hat in the ring for this. and that i have seen as a manager myself that you see that with a lot of women and other underrepresented groups. we have to do a better job of identifying these people and giving them the opportunities. >> great point. i'm so glad you're here. joanne, thank you. please read her op-ed at "usa today".com. up next from cbs to nbc to make megyn kelly and what went wrong. much more in just a moment. , and back pain made it hard to sleep and get up on time. then i found aleve pm. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid, plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. and i don't add trup the years.s. but what i do count on... is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals.

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officially out on nbc after her show was canceled. now she has signed a teal leaving but without empty-handed. she'll be walking away with all the money remaining in her

contract. a contract worth $69 million. releasing a statement saying simply the parties have resolved their differences and megyn kelly is no longer at nbc. is there any other indication there is another job lined up? >> she said this week she was going to be back on tv by the end of this year but i have no idea what that means because it's unclear where she's going to go. >> it's a spectacular fall for her. looking to a different story new, the congressman clearly has racist views. he was quoted in "the new york times" embracing white supremacy saying why did that term become offensive? why is it not getting more news attention? >> i think in this case it should probably be getting more attention on cable news. but the story that really did dominate the discussion on cable

news that was probably for a few reasons -- >> axios and others putting up these stories and saying thetleb curse word receiving five times as much attention. comparing the first 24 hours of coverage of each story. it should have gotten more play. my impression, though, is the king coverage is ramping up. every day there's no scrutiny and condemnation of him. and more of these hosts on fox need to speak out as well. >> if you go on fox and you watch fox every day you might hear in passing. it's not an overriding theme. i think it's worth pointing out as well that that tlaib story received a bit more attention

because it was tied to trump. >> great to see you. we're out of time on tv but we'll continue on cnn.com. we'll see you right back here this time next week. accidents can happen anytime that's why geico is here 24 hours a day everyday. geico, fifteen minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. [[clap, clap]] ♪ hey, jen, which tie says, "trustworthy but also fun"? gold down, oil up. oil down, gold up. this is too busy. we need to make sure people can actually use this stuff. which one says, "hours of free live streaming coverage without cable or subscription fees"? aluminum, aluminum? you ready, zack? oh, we're ready. welcome to the show. let's make finance make sense.

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like magic. at comcast, it's my job to develop, apps and tools that simplify your experience. my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. investigating trump. a new report says the fbi investigated the president fearing he could be working for russia. as we also learn president trump reportedly concealed details of his meetings with vladimir putin. the white house calls the reports absurd. we'll ask the top democrat on the senate intelligence committee, senator mark warner, next. plus, historic shutdown. day 23 of the longest government shutdown in am