[shouting] and it's all on us, all week long. you've got some serious watching to do. welcome to "inside politics." i'm john king. thank you for sharing your day with us. a potential blockbuster. buzzfeed reports the president had evidence that the president told his lawyer to lie to congress about his russia business dealings. if true, it's a clause we're hearing today followed by words like obstruction and impeachment. plus add a personal feud to the border wall policy divide at the core of the government shutdown. the president and the speaker sparring anew today as the shutdown approaches the one-month mark and the stresses

on those not getting paid intensify. and for several democrats running for president in 2020 begins with an apology. >> in my past, i said and believed things that were wrong. and worse, they were very hurtful to people in the lgbtq community and to their loved ones. >> we begin the hour with a show-stopping report from "buzzfeed" that if true could cost the president his job. the headline president trump directed his attorney michael cohen to lie to congress about the moscow tower project. "buzzfeed" citing two law enforcement officials involved in the cohen investigation. they said the president personally instructed cohen to lie about when negotiations on the trump tower moscow project ended. "buzzfeed" reports that attorneys close to the administration helped cohen prepare that false testimony. "buzzfeed" goes on to say that cohen gave the president and the president's children, donald

trump jr. and ivanka, quote, what to say. cnn has been unable to independently corroborate the "buzzfeed" accounts, but some of the details do follow the contour of court documents from the special counsel. the president said today, quote, unquote, he's lying to reduce his jail time. make note the president did not deny the specifics of the report, nor did the white house spokesman hogan gidley. >> you're saying the president did not tell michael cohen to do that. >> i'm telling you right now this is exactly why the president refuses to give any credence or credibility to news outlets, because they have no ability to corroborate anything they're putting out there. instead they're just using innuendo and shady sources -- >> that was not a denial of my

question. >> the president personally directed his long-time attorney michael cohen to lie to congress about negotiations involving the trump tower. is that true or false? >> yes, but the president's attorney also addressed this. i'm not going to give any credence or credibility to michael cohen. >> with me today to share their approximate insights, cnn's shimon prokupecz and a member of the white house independent counsel. let's start with you, shimon, because you spent months and months and months on this investigation. the key one being they said they have documents to back this up. it does track what we've seen in some of the court filings but it takes it to a special point, if you will, in saying they have documentary evidence that the president and people around the president were aware cohen was going to lie to congress and were part of getting him to lie to congress. >> that's what makes this so stunning. this is just not the word of michael cohen. we've had these kinds of stories

before, and it usually comes from the mouth of michael cohen. this is much different. this is on a completely different level. the idea that there are texts and e-mails from the trump organization, that there have been other witnesses that have come before mueller to substantiate some of this is certainly something that we've never seen before. >> in any of these developments we have two conversations, one is political and one is legal. politically, one would think it would be the interest of the president of the united states who is in a very difficult moment because of other things happening, anyway, during his presidency and then he has this cloud. politically you would think if this was not true, we would have a statement either from the president or from his lawyer or from his press secretary saying the president categorically denies this. he never, nor did anyone around him, ever tell michael cohen to lie to congress. this is false. we don't have that statement. is there a legal reason? because you know the mueller investigation is going on, is there some legal reason that even if you were 100% convinced

this was false that you would not put out that statement, or is the fact we don't have that statement hours after this hit curious? >> it is curious. first, as a lawyer, it's like a physician, do no harm. you don't want to make a position that you'll be und undercut. and this is a situation where they never get their story straight because congress changed it. but importantly, that "buzzfeed" story represents that lawyers were close to the confrontation. they're afraid of their own liability right now. >> what's interesting about this, we can say we don't know for sure, you couldn't corroborate this, but the special counsel did indicate in filings that both manafort and cohen had been in communications with the white house. so there's reason to believe that this is accurate. i think i agree with be shimon given that the president and the white house shift their stories,

it's possible people are being very cautious, but given from trump himself that he's not coming out and saying this didn't happen. >> you wait and watch the responses. they're saying michael cohen is a liar. that's true, michael cohen is not the best witness. bob mueller would never bring a case with michael cohen as his only witness. he would have to have backup documents and witnesses from separa separate issues and the like. but there is no legal reason the president that michael cohen is a liar. >> at this point i think what you've got is everybody in d.c. leaping on this story to try to corroborate it, try to see if it's true. whether you're talking about everyone in news outlets or on capitol hill that is expecting michael cohen to testify behind

open doors, because it seems like there is a lot of substance behind michael cohen if the story is true. >> it's very important to say if true, because if this is true the president is going to lose his job. if this is true, that is the thing. >> historically it's a beeline to impeachment, right? nixon and clinton, people have made that comparison between, we don't have clear obstruction in asking witnesses to lie. if we've crossed that line, people on both sides of the political spectrum from a legal standpoint have to say this bears on high crimes and misdemeanor. >> that's why it will be very interesting to see if the republicans start to shift and if you see some come to jesus moments that have been stalwart followers of the president. >> as you know, private statements from republicans are

very different from the public stramts of republicans. they w they won and they deserve to see the truth. the sources say trump and his children received updates about the deal from michael cohen. in the criminal information we know that cohen discussed the moscow project with individual 1, that's the president, on more than three occasions. cohen claimed to the committee, and he briefed family members of individual 1 within the company about the project. it does track. it's sort of the next step, if you will, if you look at it. so this is not out of the blue. >> i think, too, the question of the credibility of cohen here, one thing that's important to realize, as shimon pointed out, there is other evidence it sounds like he was confronted with before he came up with the statement. it's not like he's some jailhouse stint making things up just to help himself. but also, seasoned prosecutors have, in essence, vouched for his credibility at this point.

at his sentencing, mueller's people said he's done a good job, he's credible with what he told us, and the southern district did not attack that. they attacked his former actions as being illegal, but they didn't go after him saying you haven't given credible information. >> what's interesting, john, if we go back to the southern district. the southern district, when they did the plea deal and the filings, they implicated the president in that crime, right? when mueller files his plea and the charges against michael cohen for lying to congress, they don't take that step in their filing. they don't implicate the president. they never say michael cohen was directed to lie by the president. i think that could be telling for us, that's why i think there is a lot of questions about this story. because why wouldn't mueller, if they had the goods at that point -- there could be a reason why mueller chose not to put that in and not use that strong language as the southern district did in their filing. it's a question that i certainly have been asking and i have

found interesting. >> part of it, if you talk to people close to him -- people who know him, not people close to the investigation, they say he's an institutional guy. this is the president of the united states. he's going to do it all at once and not jib-jab. "buzzfeed" says, quote, they learned about the directive quote to lie to congress through interviews with multiple witnesses from the trump organization and internal company e-mails, text messages and a cache of other documents. cohen then acknowledged these instructions during his interviews with that office. the information provided by cohen about the moscow project in these proffer sessions is consistent with and corroborated by other information obtained in the course of the sco's investigation. text, e-mails, documents?

i guess we'll never learn for sure? >> they had all kinds of information that backed up what the allegations were, so the fact that rick gates was a criminal himself didn't sway the jury and he basically walked away. this is going to be an easy, factual thing to lay down unlike the campaign finance which the argument has been it's a squishy crime, it's not a real crime. this idea of collusion, corruption, quid pro quos. if they have e-mails that make these requests, that's going to be tough, i think, for republicans and democrats both to sidestep. >> you just had bill barr, the nominee for the new attorney skbr general, on the hill today discounting what counts as obstruction of justice. klobuchar, too, and he was reiterating it. the people who were in charge of mueller, if he gets reconfirmed which seems likely, saying, this is a bad thing you cannot do.

the republicans will try to break with that, then, on top of everything else, their natural inclination of being loyal to the president. >> some are saying the special counsel should show his cards now if he has such damning information. we'll talk about that. the president is certainly innocent until proven guilty but it's striking the statements have not joined the specifics. this just in, president trump is going to move with north korea north korea's top negotiators. he met with the secretary of state. he's now at the white house talking about when there will be a second summit between the president and kim jong-un. we'll be right back. ll you can t is back. now with shrimp. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. when a nasty cold won't let you sleep, try new nyquil severe with vicks vapocool and vaporize it. ahhhhh! shhhhh! new nyquil severe with vicks vapocool. the vaporizing, nightime coughing, aching, stuffy head,

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is any hard evidence the president told his long-time lawyer to lie to congress. from the tweet this morning, we know the president was engaged in a long pattern of obstruction. directing someone to lie to congress is a federal crime. our job is to get to the bottom of it and we will do that work. how much congress can learn while the federal investigation is underway is a pretty big question. former fixer, michael cohen, is due on the hill early next month, but the special counsel or other prosecutors could well demand some topics stay off limits for now. yet democrats read this report and see a potential tipping point. >> i mean, this is obviously a very, very serious report. if true, this is, i think, the most serious threat to the trump presidency that we've seen so far, and that's saying something, because we've seen a lot. but this is obstruction of justice. if these facts are true, this is subordinating perjury. i think there's no question it's

an impeachable offense. >> shimon prokupecz with us, julia pace, amy knox and erin walt walter. most of the politicians are adding the caveat, if true. we're just weeks into the democratic majority. some of the newer, more progressive members have already been stirring, why wait? will the cautious approach of the speaker carry the day? >> it's interesting, i had a conversation earlier today with joaquin castro, the congressman from texas who sits on the intel committee and he said we have to know if this is true. i said, how do we know if this is true? don't we have to wait for the report from robert mueller? his response was, that's great, we could, but we also now can investigate through all these different committees and things that are going to come out through testimony whether it's michael cohen's or any other

evidence that we get over the course of these investigations. the press can also dig into, and they may find more evidence. what i took away from that conversation was maybe we don't totally need to wait for mueller before we start pushing forward. not saying that it's going to happen, but you could sort of get to the -- we can find enough from these other vehicles. >> a, they have their own views, and b, they respond to their constituents, and the more liberal members who come from districts where trump is toxic to begin with, they see this and say what are you waiting for. you mentioned joaquin castro, so let me go through this. he tweets last night, if the buzzfeed story is true, the president must be impeached. the stunning moscow story establishes a clear case of obstruction of justice, a felony. i've said how many times the president has engaged in obstruction of justice just as richard nixon was engaged in

obstruction of justice. understandably, isn't the challenge of the leadership, though, to say, we'll have our day, let bob mueller have his first? >> what pelosi has been saying all along, if there is hard evidence. she has been a bit more restrained than members of her caucus where she says we want to see what comes out of the mueller report. i think one of the challenges she'll have is in this instance, trump ordered someone to lie to congress. so do lawmakers take that even more personally? that's not ordering someone to even lie to bob mueller, it's to lie to their own rank and file. i think you're seeing some of that. they feel like they take this a little more personally. but i do think if there ends up being hard evidence of this, that will make it really difficult for pelosi on hold off her caucus because it would appear this one is pretty cut and dry if there is evidence to back it up. >> at this point it's significant that someone like castro, who is an active member, say that, but you have not heard jerry nadler say it, you haven't

heard nancy pelosi say it and i doubt they're going to until they hold the report in their hand. they need to make sure they have enough backing in the senate even if it doesn't work, that they've got cover from the republicans because they need to worry about their moderates, too. mueller's report is more than likely going to come out before this congress, they get more political wind at their backs even if it doesn't work in the senate. but they have to make a calculation of being able to get some republicans on board. and there are republicans out there who are willing to cross trump when it comes to coordination of russia. i know this is not the same wheelhouse, but yesterday that vote on their scaling down russian sanctions, over 100 republicans saying, we're not cool with this, that means there is a stopgap for the gop that we can't be so okay with everything you do. it's possible. >> so to that point, is this, again, maybe an understandable perspective from a democrat but

a not going to happen? this is chris murphy, senator from connecticut, saying, if mueller has direct sources saying the president directed cohen to lie to congress, it's time to show congress's cards before it's too late to react. i don't know what the too late part is, but if you know anything about bob mueller, he's an institutional guy, he wants to be thorough, he wants his legacy of this investigation to survive. is he going to come up halfway through and say, let me share this? >> what's going to be interesting is on february 7 when michael cohen is asked about this in a public forum, does he say, no, it didn't happen, or does he say i can't talk about that because bob mueller told me not to? that's going to be fairly spectacular. >> i suspect the chairman will reach out to the special counsel's office first saying, could you please send me a letter saying where i cannot go so i can calm everybody down and blame you. >> calming everybody down on any judiciary committee is unlikely.

those committees bring in some of the hardest-charging partisans of either party. so the idea -- no offense to chairman nadler -- the idea he can actually herd cats or put frogs in a wheelbarrow, whatever the image you want is -- >> it's coming from the doj committee. they have less of an ability to do these things. but the committee wants him to come in at the same time behind closed doors. you can talk about a lot more behind closed doors, especially when they make sure to stay out of what's in mueller's lane but talking about what's in mueller's lane. >> and they can talk about what's in this report, like the trump children and others who can come in front of those committees, and maybe not behind closed doors. >> because of mueller's own credibility issues, you need building blocks. day 28. are prospects of ending the shutdown getting even worse?

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sharp sparring today between president trump and house speaker nancy pelosi, their personal feud growing deeper as the partial government shutdown hits day 28. there are no negotiations scheduled and no visible hope of resolving this impasse before it hits the month mark in a couple of days or before those impacted federal workers face a second payless payday a week from now. add now to that difficult policy fight the deepening bad blood between the president and the speaker. remember she put the president on notice he's not welcome to deliver a state of the union address until the government is reopened. he blocked the speaker and other democrats from taking a trip to afghanistan. and today a fresh wrinkle. pelosi said those democrats were prepared to fly on commercial airlines, but the state department warned that it's not safe to do that now that the president put out a notice to

members of congress to visit a war zone. >> we weren't going to go because we were told that the president outing our trip made the scene on the ground much more dangerous because it's a signal to the bad actors that we're coming. you never give advance notice of going into a battle area. you just never do. perhaps the president is inexperienced. >> adam kensinger of illinois among the more moderate voices in congress saying, it's time to give and cut an old-fashioned compromise. >> this is all petty. i want all of this to go away. i want all of us foto figure ou how we can get to an agreement. it's going to be a win-win or a lose-lose, i don't care what you call it. neither side is going to win and it's time we act like adults like the american people expect us to.

>> should we start a countdown clock of when they're going to start acting like adults, or is that a wasted effort? >> right now it seems like a wasted effort. we're in this moment where there is nothing happening on the negotiating front in terms of ending the shutdown, so all you see is nancy pelosi and the president trying to get the upper hand here. but trump is now in a situation where he has an adversary that has real power. he was in negotiations with schumer and pelosi previously, but both of them were minority leaders. now pelosi is the speaker. she has leverage she can pull. you could argue whether barring him from the state of the union was the right move or not, but she does have things at her disposal and trump is having to figure out in realtime how to grapple with that. and i think it's put him on a bit of a defensive here. >> from the political standpoint, there is no impetus. you write about this in your column and you say the democrats feel they have a strong

position. when asked who they trusted more on border security, democrats and congress were ahead of trump by five moinpoints. in other words, not only is the president losing on the border wall but he's also losing on safety and security. losing the battle, losing the war. if you're nancy pelosi, you don't see the need to blink first. >> that's always been the concern for many democrats and the hope among many republicans is, once we get onto this ishsu of just broadly security, democrats will splinter because you'll get advice people and the city people competing with the more modern suburban democrats worried that this can get them to be painted too extremist on security. here we are a month into this. the president's numbers have dropped. the support for the wall hasn't gone anywhere. democrats are more united in their opposition to the wall than republicans are united, polls are showing, among regular voters united against --

democrats are united against the wall more than are in support of it. if you're losing on border security, which is the one thing republicans would argue that's what we got. maybe we don't have the wall, but they trust us more on security at large, now you have zero leverage in this process. >> i want to stop the conversation. forgive me, but we have some breaking news. finally a statement in from rudy giuliani who is the president's lead counsel on this buzzfeed report that michael cohen was ordered by the president, directed by the president, to lie to congress. quote, any suggestion from my source that the president counseled michael cohen to lie is categorically false. michael cohen is a convicted criminal and a liar. to quote the prosecutors, he has traded on a pattern of lies and dishonesty over an extended period of time, and for that he is going to pay a very, very serious price. today's claims are just more

made-up lies born of michael cohen's malice and desperation, in an effort to reduce his sentence. it took more than an hour from buzzfeed to get it, but it is significant. that's what i was asking the lawyers earlier, is there any legal reason not to say so? if this didn't happen, mr. president, this didn't happen. rudy giuliani takes out of context those quotes about michael cohen. the prosecution did say michael cohen is a liar and he did a lot of bad things. in the russia investigation, the special counsel's office said essentially once they had him, they've been able to back up and corroborate his testimony about the russia investigation. the southern district of new york had a lot of questions about other personal financial stuff. but what is the significance of rudy giuliani going on the record saying categorically false? >> you know what i'm going to say, right? rudy giuliani has a thing about reporting. he's contradictory constantly. he says, i never said that -- i never denied that there was some

possible -- he may turn around and say the opposite in 20 minutes. it's not that significant to have him come on the record except for the fact we hadn't had it from other sources in the trump team. other folks attacking buzzfeed rather than denying the content of the buzzfeed report. >> i get your point. rudy giuliani, like michael cohen, has not been a credible witness, if you will. there's been a lot of things he's said and changed his story and then denying changing his story and you can play the tape of him saying it. capitol hill has not said, look, the president has denied this. until i see the facts, boom. >> i think it does make it more imperative if democrats are going to try to use this to open up a new investigation. it does make it more imperative they get some hard evidence to back it up. essentially we have a report

from buzzfeed which has done some really good work on the trump tower part of this investigation, but a buzzfeed report that's based on two anonymous officials and a denial from rudy giuliani. that's where we are right now and there is a lot of space in between to try to bridge the gap between the report and this denial. >> that's basically what they're going to be trying to do in trying to either replicate their reporting that buzzfeed did or find other sources to corroborate or find that they don't exist. at the same time to kind of piggyback off what olivia was saying, i think it's relevant that trump is not getting out there himself and saying maybe it's disproving and those corroborating documents don't exist. >> and he's not doing the nuts and bolts work, if you will, of responding to mueller. but a public statement of the white house on the record saying it's categorically false. vice president mike pence

makes a surprise appearance at the march for life rally happening right now here in washington, d.c.

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topping our political radar today, big international news. the white house says president trump is meeting with north korea's top negotiator in the oval office this hour. former spy chief kim met with mike pompeo last hour. he reportedly came to the white house with a letter for trump from kim jong-un about the items to be discussed. protesters gather at the

national mall for the 46th march for life. the president speaking mike pence talking about the president's moves in the last two years. >> the president kept his promise and he appointed more conservative men and women to our federal courts of appeals than any president in american history. >> and some democrats getting in, but this democrat getting out of the running come 2020. pennsylvania senator bob casey, after months of consideration, announced today he will not seek his party's presidential nomination. casey won reelection last year by 13 percentage points and said today the best place for him to serve is by staying in the senate. up next, more on 2020 and this big question. joe biden. is he in or out?

to 2020 and the democrats now and some brand new cnn reporting on joe biden's deliberation. cnn spoke to more than two dozen aide and supporters of the former vice president. they detail family concerns, biden's painful memories of his two failed presidential runs and his assessment of the 2020 race. strongly leading in is the big takeaway. one supporter of biden saying, quote, his thinking is centered around one thought. there has to be a new president. that's what his campaign would be about. jeff zeleny a big part of that reporting and he joins me in the conversation. you read it, you give an impression of everybody around him and your instinct is this is for me, but -- >> we know he wants to be president. that's been true for a very long time. we know his team is in place should he make that decision. but we're told talking to a variety of people he has not yet made that decision. but his aides and operatives are talking to people in iowa, in new hampshire, in south carolina to get something ready should he

decide to run. but again, as we think through this, we also have to ask the question can he win the big one on his own? obviously his two previous presidential campaigns on his own, not with barack obama, didn't go very well. so he knows, and his advisers know, that he would have to create a different, more modern type of campaign structure, campaign message. but everyone we're talking to says again he's leading in that direction but they all offer a word of caution, not quite sure. one said 70-30, that 30 is very real. one thing he has not done is have a meeting with barack obama yet. he has not sat down and had a conversation with him. one would assume they will have that chat. it could be complicated for both of them because obama does not plan to get in the race. what happens if his former vice president asks him to endorse? that's a tough answer. >> especially knowing you lost twice. making the case you were the best qualified and you lost twice. the winner is the one that can control the debate.

to convince democrats, there's a lot of us. what is this race about? if he can make it about we need a new president, he could say, i'm the guy who knows how to be president. i'm the closest, i was vice president for eight years, you like me. but is it about someone new? is this a blessing or a curse? this is from the marist poll. democrats, biden versus benton, belo horizonte him away. even among younger people, biden blows beto away. you like me? or is that the curse? if the party wants someone new, they like him, they just want a fresh face. >> biden is simply name recognition. he's much more well known, he is much more beloved, he has more of a record from his time as vice president.

so that's an advantage that he would have that nobody else has. but biden also has some of those same flaws and the biggest one this time around is that he is not new. and the energy of the democratic party right now is with young voters, it is with women, it is with minorities. what is his story to tell those voters? how would he represent them in this democratic primary? >> i think the number one thing democratic voters are looking for right now is who can beat donald trump, period. we don't care what package it comes in. if you can prove to us over the course of this primary campaign that you are the one that has the best path forward, fantastic. and i think so much of the other stuff, are you new, are you old, what are your past positions, how are you going to make up for the fact -- listen, joe biden is not the only one that has to make up for a track record in terms of where the democratic party is now on liberal views of so many issues. >> in the early weeks of this, so many of the democrats getting in have to begin with, i'm

sorry, i'm sorry. senator gillibrand, previous positions on guns. she says flatly, i was wrong. k arka kamala harris was viewed on more tough than where the base of the party is. representative gabbard harshly critic on gays and she said i'm sorry. senator sanders, shamt during the -- sexual harrasment during the 2016 campaign. >> the thing i heard last time in 2016 and i'm hearing again now is democrats saying, right, he's super popular. he's not running. when you start running a presidential campaign, everything changes. all your rivals try to define you, all your enemies try to define you and that's a totally

different impact. these early poll numbers don't reflect, i can beat donald trump as much as we're fond of you and are you running. >> do you want that to be your legacy or do you want to take that risk? it's a big risk for 30% that i say is very real. the new job for karen pence. the vice president saying moments ago he could not be more proud of her. >> my wife is many things. she's even an art teacher at a christian school. and i couldn't be more proud of our second lady, my wife, karen pence. with up to 24 hr wear. now, get longwear coverage from our most lightweight, breathable formula. for makeup that won't weigh you down. defies sweat... ...and transfer. stays fresh. feels light. all day tonight.

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before the break, we heard vice president pence praise his wife for being an art teacher at a christian school. he says he's deeply offended by what he calls the media's attack on christian education. >> we have a rich tradition in america of christian education, and frankly religious education broadly defined. we celebrate it. the freedom of religion is enshrined in the constitution of the united states. we'll let the other critics roll off our back, but this criticism of christian education in america should stop. >> the christian school's parent agreement says it can refuse a

student if the parent's students are participating in, supporting or condone, sexual immora lirli. it asks parents to embrace biblical family values such as a healthy marriage between one man and one woman. christian school's private organizations have a right to have their views, but this decision being made as we head into a reelection campaign. number one, the trump campaign has to know this is making a statement, a statement that the christian conservative base will applaud, but a statement that young americans, gay americans who are more tolerant of these issues, they don't like this in the administration. it is a statement, correct? >> everything the first and second family do are viewed from people across the country as a model to look up to. i think there are some people who are proponents of christian education who would say, yeah, but not this kind.

they're making a play at a very slim part of the population that they consider their base but also offend ag ling a lot of pe. >> i think it's somewhat surprising coming from them. they have been backed by the evangelical community. that is who they view as their base. this is also very personal for them. this is their core belief. when you use your core beliefs in a public way, it does open yourself up to criticism, and i think the pences might be a little naive to think that wouldn't happen if she is going to make this decision. it's interesting they made no attempt to get ahead of it. they made the announcement she would be working at the school and then saw the backlash coming a day or two later. >> all taxpayers pay for secret service protection. it's not her fault she needs protection, this is the world we live in. but secret service people have to be paid for life. does it matter. >> meaning does her first amendment freedom somehow get

curtailed because taxpayers pay for her security? i don't know that everyone would sign on to that. >> everybody has the right to criticize and they will criticize. >> this is criticism of the pences doing this, it's not a blind criticism of christian education. thank you for joining us on "inside politics." i hope you have a great weekend. brianna keilar starts right now. i'm brianna keilar live from cnn's washington headquarters underway right now. we begin with a stunning report that if true it raises serious questions about possible obstruction of justice by president trump. according to this buzzfeed report, then-candidate donald trump directed his long-time attorney michael cohen to lie to congress under oath about negotiations to build a trump tower in moscow. and this report cites two federal law enforcement officials involved in investigating the matter. important to note,