>> prudent. thank you all. good discussion. lt news continues. handing it over to chris cuomo. for cuomo "prime time." >> welcome to "prime time." we have breaking news. robert mueller breaking silence about the report that is ricochetted around washington in the last 24 hours. and they have a different story. we'll bring in a team of people who reported on and worked these types of cases to tell us where things stand in terms of what we know. and where we go. then, we'll go one on one with the gop senator on the judiciary committee. about the shut down. he spent hour with the president recently on what it will take to get the people paid. whether he rejects steve kings message of bigotry. it's a wild week. and it ain't over. let's get after it.

we don't hear from the mueller probe. this is rare. they put out a statement just a moment ago about what they hear in this buzzfeed report. they knock it down in part. now buzzfeed reported that michael cohen the former lawyer told the special counsel that president trump directed him to lie to congress. about a massive business deal he was seeking with moscow. they cited two law enforcement sources investigating the matter. they didn't say they work for the special counsel. but they have corroborating evidence. a short while ago, mueller's team. this is very uncharacteristic for them. put out a statement. saying this. buzzfeed description of specifics statements to the special counsel office and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by the office regarding michael cohen's congressional testimony are not

accurate. buzzfeed not backing down. here's the statement from editor and chief, ben smith. in the response to the statement. we standby the reporting and the sources who informed it and urge the special counsel to make clear what he is disputing. all right, let's bring in people who report on these stories and work for the doj. it's good to have you both. let's deal with where we think thipgs stand. buzzfeed says one thing, mueller people change in terms of what they believe is true about what they know. does that end the buzzfeed reporting for you? >> well, for me i take it as now we're back to exactly where we were at the point where cohen pleaded guilty to lying to congress and let the facts come out as they may. i think that the special counsel

taking this extraordinary step to actually comment on it reflects a couple things. i think that this particular allegation is so explosive and has so many potential consequences, that they felt it was important to make clear what was or wasn't accurate about or at least not accurate about the story. also it has been almost two years. we have not heard boo from the special counsel. no leaks, he has been a lock down. i don't think where ever the sources are coming from, i would be -- i'm not 99% sure they were not coming from mueller's team. >> it's interesting you say that. let's look at the language from buzzfeed. weigh in. the language is two federal law enforcement officials involved in the investigation of the matter. if you had mueller guys, you might say it. you might not.

they might want the protection. especially in light of what we saw from rudy giuliani. the doj must bring the sources forward. people want protection. it's not unusual to be anonymous in this regard. it's the law enforcement officials telling buzzfeed what the special counsel knows. to you, does that mean they must work for the special counsel? or does it mean that both could be true. they work for some other entity. other body. and the special counsel is modifying the reporting not cancelling it out altogether. >> i think you're right to zero in on that particular phrase. and the larger point is to look at the context of the investigative detail that this story reports to break. and what i mean by that is this entire report deals with the

trump organization end of the investigation. which is not actually being run by the special counsel office. we shorthand all of this as the mueller probe. it is in fact 17 different investigations being run by seven different prosecutors offices. the trump organization is being investigated by the southern district of new york. the federal prosecutor. so that was the who raided cohen's office. that is who is dealing with some of the campaign finance violations. that the trump organization has been involved in. and that is who allen weiss el berg the chief financial officer for the trump organization negotiated his immunity deal with. i'm generally -- to play a

guessing game about sources. given the importance of this story it is worth pointing the finger away from the special counsel. this has been an operation that has been leak free for two years. i have a hard time believing that this sort of one random story is the first time that we have seen a leak out of the special counsel office. where as new york is actually a leaky operation. the leaks out of the new york fbi office that drove jim comey's decision in the week prior to the november 2016 election to make that extraordinary comment about reopening hillary clintons e-mail investigation. given anthony weaners laptop. all of this is circles upon circles. >> i think there is a line through it. you refer to it in your answer.

let's put up why this made sense to people when it came out anyway. it's not about damming the president. it's the context of what we thought we were going to find out surrounding cohens testimony. he's about to testify again. by what we're seeing now and the sourcing is for buzzfeed, doesn't seem like it might be under his um bell l.a. what was in mueller's pleading. that came out the same day as the southern district pleading about cohen. cohen provided relevant and useful information concerning his contacts with persons connected to the white house during the 2017, 2018 time period. describing the circumstances of preparing and serklating his response to the congressional inquiries continuing to accept responsibility for the false statements contained within it.

we are remember that. he was talking to people. involved in the white house. i wonder who. then, you have to look at that in the context of what his lawyers said. in response to that. put that up. please. okay. in the weeks during which the then counsel prepared written response to the congressional committee. michael remained in close and regular contact with white house base staff and legal counsel. to client one. here's where my head is. what could be the big distinction here and justify what the mueller probe came out with. but not vacate everything buzzfeed said. trump directed michael cohen, don't put that on us. but, michael cohen worked with people around trump in preparing testimony. and once again we're faced with the what did the president know and not know.

that could very well be true. and squares with what was in the mueller pleading, what was in his own -- cohen's own pleading. does that make sense? >> i think so. i think -- i was onset the day he pleaded guilty and with several prosecutors. and that was the language that many of us honed in on. what does it mean. it's not in there for no reason at all. but, i think that again we do need to remember that two things, this allegation we talked all day about the seriousness of it. i'm guessing the special counsel office may have been getting pressure from congress saying if this is something you have, you better let us know. >> that's not a first. >> yeah. but this does -- that allegation

directly goes to congress's function. >> true. >> so that's an enormous pressure to be there. i think also that two things. that anything of this nature is being collected by the special counsel office. it really is in everyone's interest on any side. on both sides. to see it in black and white. the way we have seen his indictments and official filings. which we know by virtue of them being laid out they are backed up by evidence. >> it has to be part of the report. mueller referred to it. if we put up mueller's response. i get it's a bunch of lawyers. they're careful about everything. they didn't need to be this careful about this statement. they could have said buzzfeed's reporting is wrong. we're not pursuing this. we haven't done anything like this. they could have said that. they didn't. i'm not one looking for a needle in a hay stake on this.

buzzfeed will follow up the reporting and stands by it. we'll see what happens. put that back up. you want to parse the actual language. description of specific statements to the special counsel office. the characterization of documents and testimony. are not accurate. it is a lawyerly explanation of the situation. or am i a lawyer who is looking at it that way? >> well, you're right. the special counsel office knows how to deny a story. this is not a denial. i think in some ways -- >> they say it's not accurate. they could have waived it away in single line. if they wanted to. >> one of the things we might be seeing here is the special counsel operating in a new political environment. that this is one of the first huge bomb shells that we have seen come out in public reporting. under a democrat house.

this might be sort of as simple as statement that the special counsel office saying we're not going to impeach the president this weekend. so let's all take a deep breath and let's keep waiting and we'll get to this when we have -- when we're ready to talk about it. >> that's always been the best advice. when things happen i bring in somebody like you. or both of you. what could it mean, where could it lead us, what could happen next. that's fair. of the pace of the curiosity matters as well. as you started this segment we are back where we were when we got that mueller pleading. it seems that cohen didn't go it alone. who does that mean and what does that mean? does it mean anything for the president. we don't know until we learn more. thank you very much. needed you tonight. you came through. i appreciate it. so, this week has been a huge week. you have rudy giuliani on this

show. changing the metric of how the president proceeds a probe. the bus buzzfeed and the mueller response. what are the big developments? what are the big questions? i have narrowed it down to five. i'll give them to you next.

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all right. the story about buzzfeed and the reporting and the question of whether anyone helped michael cohen lie to congress. it matters. there are other russia related issues in focus this week. we'll start with the buzzfeed thing. we'll see. how they reconcile what they said. there's space between the response and what buzzfeed said happened. we'll find out one way or another. he's going to testify in a few weeks. remember this kind of grew out of in terps of legitimacy what he put in pleadings. they have been tracking this issue of who helped him lie to congress. the fact that he paid for polls to be rigged for donald trump at trumps direction. once again that was their relationship. he did dirty deeds. sometimes dirt cheap. sometimes not. they believe he pocketed cash this time. that's another issue. what else. when we look around you have

rudy giuliani. the president strategy is just to protect himself. the campaign, i don't know about that. all i know is that the president himself did nothing wrong. what did he know about? is that something that will hold? that was a big development this week. relaxing sanctions on russia. that's going on now. you'll hear on this show from a republican who voted against it. he doesn't understand the need for it. why when they're looking at you to see if you're too cozy with russia, would you try to relax sanctions on an oligarch in the probe. in july after speaking with the russian president, our president made his defense against interference into his own official administration statement. he said it to at least two media out lets. he left out the part putin told him. and a an official talking point of the administration. why would he do that putting putin over his intel agency.

the interpreters notes. why would he hide the notes of an interpreter after a meeting with putin? why only this world leader? why we heard about this because the white house leaks. why only putin? the questions all lead to the same vexing issue. why does the president keep taking special steps to be deferent shl and protective of the president and country if he has nothing to hide. that's what we learned this week. this is in the mix. i want to go back to the stunning push back tonight from the special counsel office. they don't talk. they came out to say the buzzfeed thing, mischaracterization. not accurate. about what happened with us. is that the end of it? you're about to talk to a seasoned prosecutor who says nope.

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the explosive story from buzzfeed news. they call it not accurate. they said that it's mischaracterizing. documents and statements made to them. however buzzfeed editor in chief pushing back to their push back. standing by the reporting and their sources and asking for the special counsel to clarify what it is they dispute. so what do we take away from the back and forth? there have been stories about what's going on with the probe and the president may have known. they have never come forward until now. i wonder if that means they had no problem with the other reports. lerts bring somebody in who says it's not the end. former acting solicitor general. it's good to have you here. let's leave whether it means they like the other reporting or not to the side. do you believe this is the end of the issue? >> no, not at all. i think there's the statement itself is pretty ambiguous.

it could be their disputing everything like they don't have sufficient evidence to go after trump for ordering cohen to lie to congress. or we run a tight ship there are no leaks in the office and the sta statement twice mentions his office and the information provided. two things we do know. after the story came out, president trump went and threatened michael cohen saying look go after his father. or father-in-law. or something like that. which is itself potentially a crime. and number two, this allegation about ordering cohen to lie before congress is only one of a litany of things in which trump and everyone in trump world happens to lie when it comes to russia. whether or not this specific thing is there or not. there's a bigger tapestry which is incredible damaging to the

president. and under scores the need for congress to be involved. >> here's what's curious about it. we pieced it together with little bits of proof. the reason the buzzfeed article other than the headline is enticing to journalists. covering this story. it seemed to be an extension of what we learned from mueller himself. in his most recent pleading. the same day the southern district put out their feeling on cohen. if we have the language available. mueller said cohen has come forward about who he was talking to getting ready for congressional testimony. and it was this is from the special counsel office december 7. cohen himself is admitted with respect to both payments he acted with respect to individual 1. about the payments to the women. the southern district said he

was directed by individual 1. mueller didn't do that. when he talked about the congressional testimony and how he came up with the decision to lie and who might have helped him. he said he was talking to people there was coordination with people in the white house. he was in touch. michael cohen pleaded he kept in touch with the white house and talking to people. neither mention the president specifically. they could have. it makes me wonder, is this about me vs. we. the president directing it. which is what buzzfeed says. or something generalized. that cohen was working with guys around trump and leaves a familiar question of did the president know what was happening. was he part of it? >> that's an excellent point. i think there's a lot to it. we just don't know from what we have gotten so far. everyone is a little impatient. they were impatient last night. they want to read into it.

the i had the privilege of being on last night. and everyone was if this is true, then x follows. nobody would say this is actually where things are. it could very well be the folks around him directed cohen to do stuff and they were trump people. but not trump himself. on the other hand trump does have a pretty strong disrespect for the law. and it's certainly plausible the reverse is true. this is why we need an investigation. if donald trump is truly innocent as he said, he's the one who should be not -- clam moring for an investigation. not calling it a witch hunt. bring it on, i have nothing to hide. he doesn't talk to mueller or congress. he's trying to shut it down. saying it's a witch hunt. and lawyers might assert executive privilege. he doesn't sit down and answer questions. this doesn't look like the behavior of an innocent person.

if any government officer acted this way they would lose their job. >> mueller didn't do the media any favors tonight. and did the president one. as you saw with rudy giuliani and with the president himself, this allows them to say you can't believe it. you can't believe what you read. what you hear. you can only believe us. even the special counsel says that the media doesn't get it right. >> yes. on the other hand folks like us have been saying mueller is a very respected prosecutor. by the book prosecutor. a former republican. and trump always accuses him-over being bias and saying the 13 or 19 angry or whatever working for mueller. no way. so yes, we can talk about the boomerang on the media. there's someone else who demonstrated i think once again his bonefied. that's mueller. >> the president -- this is a

nice distraction. from what we learned this week. the buzzfeed thing if we match the reporting or anybody else had that's a credible organization. this would have been a big deal. instead it leads us back to where we were the pleading that creates the suggestion that cohen may have been in contact and coordinating with others while preparing his congressional testimony. we still don't know for sure. we learned a lot else this week. we had rudy giuliani completely change the sperktive on the defense plan. everybody else gets thrown under the bus except the president. we have learned about the length this president has gone to protect conversations with vladimir putin. adopting his rational and made it his own administration position. these are still they all go to feed the fire of why does the president behave this way towards this man. >> that is so important. remember the one other story the

"new york times" a week ago tonight reporting that our sitting president has been under active investigation by the fbi. for being a russian asset. you take all these things together and this is why just two hours ago i had the privilege of writing an op-ed. with former cia director. big part cnn family. exactly. and the lovely contributor to the net work. what we said is you take all of this together and it really under scores the need for a serious congressional investigation juicing impeachment. not prejudging the out come. everyone in the country needs to know the answers to the problems. some are within mueller's jurisdiction. others are not and it's squarely congress's obligation. >> see what's in the report and see what else you need to do.

>> first of all we don't know how long that could be. it could be. >> what's the rush? >> mueller is famous for not leaking. we have allegations that the president is engaged in has been engaged in serious wrong doing. and as long as the questions can be asked by congress in way that doesn't interfere with the mueller investigation, like an episode like tonight really demonstrates why congress should be involved. after all the buzzfeed story is about lying to congress. who cares about that more than anyone? congress. so they should be -- absolutely. it's appropriate and part of the constitutional duty to investigate this. obviously to do so in respectful to law enforcement interest to mueller and the like. it should and needs to be done. >> i guess my push back is impeachment, removal. political process. they have a lot of legal dressing around them.

they're not legal processes. they're political. if you don't have the american people pushing on politicians in a form of a con sen sis. politicians work out of fear of consequence. you won't be close to that until you get passed the mueller probe and how people feel about it. >> i think that actually cuts the other way. look, general hayden and i are reluctant impeachment investigators. we don't think it's right. we don't want to criminalize politics. founders left a system in which being a presidential politic should -- when you have allegations like this. they should be investigated. you might not convict at the end of the day. that's a feature of the system. it takes a two third vote in the senate to convict. >> thank you for being on. how many times have i had you on planning to talk about one

thing. but talk about something else because of the news. >> welcome to the trump era. >> 800,000 federal workers are still not being paid. if you lose sight of it, we really are losing sight of the individuals. it's time for those to solve this to fiend a way. the president owns this shut down. mitch mcconnell has frozen the senate. he's saying it's a major announcement. that's a distraction. i have senator john kennedy on. what does he think should be done it free up the senate and have them do their job? next. hey. i heard you're moving into a new apartment. yeah, it's pretty stressful. this music is supposed to relax me, though. ♪ maybe you'd mellow out a bit if you got geico to help you with your renters insurance. oh, geico helps with renters insurance? good to know. yeah, and they could save you a lot of money. wow, suddenly i feel so relieved.

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the mueller developments matter so do the people who aren't getting paid. a month into the shut down the deal maker in chief still has no deal. what he has is quote a major announcement he tweeted concerning what he calls the humanitarian crisis on the southern border and the sht down. set for tomorrow afternoon. i call that a distraction. i don't know what he has. if it were so important, why treat it as a tease to reality

show? so will i. let's focus on what matters and what we know about. calling on those keeping the government shut down. republican senator of louisiana is back on "prime time." we welcome him. senator, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. thanks for having me. >> when it comes it the shut down, a big heap of blame is squarely on the head of mitch mcconnell. the oath he took is to the president and not the people. why don't you, your republican colleagues go to him and say let us do or job. there are bills we're supposed to be voting on. let us do our job. >> we're all to blame for this. every single one of us. in washington responsible for making sure the government operates. number two, it's not mitch's fault. if we pass a bill, and the president vetoes it, what have we accomplished?

we have given people false hope. and there's no way and whether you agree or not, i don't think he'll budge on this. he's not going to put bail on the floor a bill on the floor that the president is not going to sign. >> do you know for a fact you couldn't get two-thirds? >> no. don't know. >> that's why you should go through with it. >> i would doubt. >> you don't want to reopen the government? i do. but anyway you look at this from any perspective because of the circumstances we find ourselves in, right now there are only two people opinions who matter. donald trump. and nancy pelosi. and many of my -- i hitched a ride back with the president on his plane from new orleans to d.c. on monday. i visited with him about an hour on this issue. he didn't have an ugly thing to say a bad thing to say about

speaker pelosi. he believes he's doing right thing. for better or worse. he doesn't believe you can secure a 1,900 mile border with without having in part some barriers. on this issue he is strong as bears breath. he's resolute. he's willing to negotiate. he told me that point-blank. here's what i believe. if the president and the speaker are close to this thing right now. if each of them would appoint somebody in whom they have great confidence and tell them go off for two or three days. meet. forget about the politics and bring back a plan to help secure the border. you know what i think the plan would say? we need to enhance security. and in ports of entry. >> yes. >> more border agents and judges. and a barrier. >> that's what it always said.

they gave him $25 billion over five years. they always funded physical barriers. they were doing it the obama administration. where the fencing comes from. they have always funded it. the one point whatever billion is in the budget for it. >> you're making my point. nancy pelosi, chuck for whatever reason decided to let the speaker run the show. i saw it. i saw it on cnn. where the it was reported and the speaker said it was true. the president said if i open back government, and we negotiate, will you confer a wall? she said no. not one dollar. >> she's offered over $1 billion. he walked away from the deal. >> not to be used for a wall sfwl part of it is for the wall. this is proportion.

no democrats say no money for the physical barriers. it's about how much and where and what percentage of the budget. >> speaker does. >> she said that one time in response to a question. they had billions on the table. that includes physical barriers. >> she will not agree to 1.3 billion. if the president went today and said here's the deal. i want $1.3 billion and i agree we need to do something on the port of entry. immigration judges, border agents and drones and technology. and we need $1.3 billion for a border wall. to add to the 600 already working. she's not going to accept that. she said it. if she will accept it, she needs to say so. it will really further the negotiations. >> he's asking for $5 billion. >> i'm telling you the president will negotiate on this. >> you think he'll take 1.3? >> no. i'm not saying that.

he will negotiate. here's what i think most americans think. i bet you do too. legal immigration makes the country stronger. illegal immigration under mines legal immigration. illegal immigration is illegal. and a border barrier can help stem the tide of illegal immigration. >> it will help. it's not a panacea. we're not a wall away. everything he is is not fixed by a wall. stop the illegal drugs? give them x-raies and infrastructure. you want to stop illegal foot traffic or entry? attack the airport. that's where it comes. go after terrorism. go to the airport. that's where they come. he's made it a metaphor. that's what's immoral. he defines keeping out the brown menace. for him, it's all in. on this idea of who wins.

me who wants to keep everybody out and say they're bad for wanting to come in. or you people who want to do otherwise. it's not fair to put it on peoples backs. he did that. >> it's a valid point of view. he's asking for money for an additional 234 miles of wall. barriers. you can call it wang doodle. it's a barrier. in addition to that, he asked for additional border agents. more detention beds. money for to help the humanitarian cause. he's asked for more immigration judges. he is never asked for a 1,900 mile wall from sea to shining sea. >> he started with that. and said mexico would pay for it. >> if i'm wrong i'll come back. my understanding of the speakers position is not one penny. for one inch of a wall. if she stepped up to the plate

and said i will talk about a wall. we can wrap it up. >> all right. that's all it takes it should be done tomorrow. they have been offering money for this physical barrier for several deals. we'll see what happens and hopefully soon. people are paying a price. senator, thank you for talking to me. >> thanks, chris. all right. there's another story emerging around this today. it's easy to get lost in the moment. remember when the president claimed he saw thousands of arabs cheering nearby after the world trade center fell on 9/11? remember that? those were the early stages of the brown menace. that the president seems anxious to sell you on. now there's a new chapter in the book of bs. the danger of prayer. the new hype. next. ♪ [ telephone ringing ] -whoa. [ indistinct talking ] -deductible? -definitely speaking insurance.

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from the washington examiner. some border rancher claims she found prayer rugs along the southern border. i say so what but the potus seems to see an opportunity to stoke fear of muslims. it is very short on proof of whatever they are trying to prove. but it's very long on xenophobia and bigotry. the reporting is one thing. show us the rugs. when did they come? and it's almost like dignifying an insult because the whole point is to stoke fear. >> you're absolutely right. on all evenings, facts first. so can i read something for you? >> sure. >> there are a lot of people coming in, not just from mexico, the ranchers said, people the generic public don't get the terrorist threat to that. that's what is really scarey. you don't know what's coming

across. so they're saying because we found prayer rugs othroughout -- >> what they thought were prayer rugs. let's say they were. fine. >> aren't we a country that cares about religious freedom and respects other people's religious believes. can they not make that connection? and the other thing, just so we know the truth, an administration official has told cnn that more non-u.s. citizens on terror watch lists were encountered on the northern, than the southern border and they tried to enter through legal ports of entree. those are the facts. stop being xenophobic about people different from you. evilen if you found a prayer rugs, by the way people use rugs

to jump over those walls. >> there are a billion muslims and you know why they don't focus on the northern border part? it doesn't fit into the brown menace. >> and you know what i used to say when people said maybe barack obama is a muslim. yard say okay. what's wrong with being a muslim? there's nothing wrong with that. so this,s as i said it's important tonight to be accurate and to talk about the facts. so we're going to over a lot of things that happened. we're going to go over all of it and tell you where we stand. >> beautiful. i'll be watching. i'll have a drink in my hand but i'll be watching.

as we enter into martin luther king jr. weekend, the president still hasn't come out against steve king, not even on this weekend. wait, maybe he has. i will argue we have gotten our answer from the president. unfact we got today. next. the january savings event. it senses your movement, and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. it even helps with this. so you wake up ready to put your pedal to the metal. save up to $500 on select sleep number 360 smart beds, now ranked #1 in customer satisfaction with mattresses by j.d. power. plus, free premium delivery and 36-month financing. ends monday. sleep number... proven quality sleep. okay, i never thought i'd say this, but i found bladder leak underwear that's actually pretty. surprised? it's called always discreet boutique. it looks and fits like my underwear.

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our country must celebrate one king denounce another. dr. king's name is synonymous with peaceful opposition and the unyielding pursuit of justice. that is his legacy. one of hismany wise ideas he left us with is in the build up to bloody sunday in selma, alabama. he wrote a man ties when he refuses to stand up for what is

right, a man dies when he refuses to take a stand up for justs. a man dies when he refuses to take a stand for that which is true. it's the urgency that must oker when king can's evil opposite raises his head. that's why i keep reminding you that the president still hasn't stood up to representative king can. the congressman thanked rush limbaugh and mark stein for his support in his quote fight in defense of western civilization. it kaen can't become a pujorative -- and king clearly does and that is the same toxic notion of preference that opposed dr. king

and that's why the president of the greatest experiment in diversity in the history of the world, america, cannot be quiet now. but he is quiet, isn't he? he has spoken about what he wants to protect and punish. just today he retweeted a frankly stupid report from a conservative outlet. prayer rugs were supposedly found on the border and an anonymous rancher was in a panic. and by the way even if that's all true, so what? what are you trying to say? muslims crossed illegally? all kinds of people from all over get aross the country and they pray. so it's the suggestion. part of the brownmans. menace. eve on the day we enter into mlk weekend.