sing it. >> so what! >> so wham so what. >> reporter: but for politicians, it's often the retort of last resort. >> says who? >> reporter: me, jeanie mos. >> who cares? >> cnn. >> so what! >> reporter: new york. >> who cares? >> thank you for joining us. anderson starts now. good evening, we begin with a question. is president trump's tv lawyer rudy guiliani really bad at his job or is he very, very good at muddying the waters? whatever it is, he was at it again today and over the weekend. first, quickly, some background, not withstanding the water muddying and smoke blowing the central facts were pretty clear. when we left you friday night, robert mueller's office had taken a rare step of disputing buzzfeed that president trump instructed his former corporate attorney michael cohen to lie to congress about the real estate deal the trump organization was pursue figure moscow.

remember, cohen falsely told lawmakers contact with russian nationals on the project ended before the february 2016 iowa caucuses. he said, quote, i made these misstatements, he told the judge, to be consistent with individual 1's and political message and out of loyalty toied 1. the only question, did his boss, donald trump, tell him to do it? buzzfeed was and still is report tag robert mueller has evidence he did. mueller's office is saying this, quote, buzzfeed's description of statements to special counsel's office and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office regarding michael cohen's congressional testimony are not accurate. that was where things stood going into the weekend. then rudy guiliani took to the air waves and spoke to the "new york times" and the waters got muddy. we will bring that you in a moment. after a short swim in the crystal clear waters of what candidate and prth-elect trump

actually said about whether or not he had any dealings in russia. >> i have nothing to do in russia. i don't have any jobs if russia. i'm all over the world. we're not involved if russia. >> i know nothing about the inner workings in russia. i have no businesses, i have no loans with russia. i have no dealings with russia. i have no deals in russia. i have no deals that could happen in russia. because we've stayed away. >> remember that. jake tapper, especially in light of what guiliani told the "new york times" leaving the newspaper with the headline the trump tower moscow discussions were going on from the day i announced the day i won. mr. guiliani quoted donald trump as saying, during an interview with the "new york time's." >> he said he had no dealings with russia and as by your own admission, he was talking with people in moscow about trump moscow project through november, 2016. >> he wasn't talking to people in russia about anything. he didn't talk to people in russia at all.

there is not a single stitch of evidence. it was an early stage proposal that never got beyond a non-binding letter of intent that was being run by michael cohen. it was his project. and it was being done while donald trump was running for president of the united states and wasn't focused on that at all. >> got that. at the same exact time that candidate trump was suggesting he had no business dealings in russia whatsoever, his fixer and attorney michael cohen was pursuing a deal with moscow worth according to court filings, hundreds of millions of dollars that his boss knew nothing about. really? this is the same donald trump who cashed a krek check for 13 cents. you can gogging google et it. there is a good chance i wouldn't have won, why would i lose lots of opportunities? is this a guy that sounds unaware of a deal several million bucks in a place he had

been obsessed with and at the same time he knew nothing about the massive pay day that vladimir putin was dangling out there. he was saying things like this. >> i spoke indirectly and directly with president putin, who could not have been nicer. >> putin did call me a genius. he said time future of the republican parties. he's off to a good start. >> any time anything wrong happens, they like to say the russians, they don't know if it's the russians doing the hacking. maybe from is no hacking. >> number one, nato is obsolete. number two the people aren't paying their way. he said nice things about me. i like him because he called mae genius. >> so as the trump organization was pursuing a deal, the president was lying about pursuing any deals having busy ties with russia. >> that and saying they can make or break the gehl at the expenseof our u.s. allies.

again, rudy guiliani says this deal wasn't really a deal. it was a kind of a sort of hypothetical thing that the president had no clue about and wouldn't be wrong in any event. most importantly the president knew nothing about it, which is odd according to what he said to maggie haberman of the weekend. here it is again. the trump tower negotiations were going on from the day i announced to the day i won. you might think that this sound just like the president's tv lawyer is admitting that the entire time the candidate trump was denying any business contacts with russians, the same period his fixer lied about the same time frame donald trump was running for president and right up to the moment quote to the day i won, during that same time frame, talks were under way with russians, about a massive real estate deal in moscow. you might think that. because, well, that's what he said. tv lawyers always have a trick or two up their sleeve. today's trick, rudy guiliani said it was all hypothetical.

here's what he shared on social media. my recent statements about the discussions during the 2016 campaign between michael cohen and then candidate donald trump were hypothetical and not based on a statement. >> i thought when you directly quote somebody it's that somebody said it. rudy guiliani directly quoted the president. there is no such thing as a hypothetical attributed direct quote. it's not the way the english language works. as a tv lawyer, rudy guiliani gets plenty of opportunity to practice using said english lange. yet time and again he ends up backtracking after revealing later what turned out to be inconvenient truths about hit client. yes, the president did pay for stormy daniels silence. >> it's not campaign money. no campaign finance violation. >> so say that fun emed it

through a law firm. >> through a law firm the president repaid it. >> oh, i didn't know it. he did in. >> yes. >> i like how he has a piece of chicken in his mouth. hannity didn't see that coming. chris cuomo never seen this one last week. >> i never said there was no occlusion between people in the campaign. >> yes you did. >> i said not. i said the president of the united states. there is not a single bit of evidence the president of the united states committed the only crime you could commit here, conspired with the russians to hack the dnc. >> you mean right there might have been occlusion. just not the president, only the rest of the campaign. along with chris, sean hannity and maggie haberman. you can add jake tap tore the wait what is roux rudy guiliani say? . >> you acknowledged it's possible that president trump talked to michael cohen. >> which would be perfectly normal. which the president believed was

true. >> keep it running. >> there is nothing perfectly normal discussing the testimony of a witness. there is nothing perfectly normal about a candidate's company with or without his knowledge chasing a lucrative business deal with the country interfering in that election. there is nothing normal about just about everything rudy guiliani has said over the past months and years about his client's behavior. while we don't know what it adds up to, none of it add up to normal. more watching the story unfolding is a member of the house committee, democrat jim hahn of connecticut. i spoke to him earlier. congressman, do you have any understanding of what rudy guiliani is doing here? is it possible there's actually some kind of strategy behind all this? >> anderson, i think there is. take a step back from the sort of latest crazy that you get from guiliani and this is, of course, into the new thing. what's happening here is if you

think about it, guiliani is not actually the president's lawyer. july jane a trusted mouthpiece to speak to the right wing. to speak to the president's face. when guiliani does what he does almost every week, put out contradictory, odd, strange statements. what it does is muddy the water. at the end of the day, that's the objective. that's the main point of rudy guiliani. he, as he says one thing and then walks it back, he raises questions in people's minds who are inclined to be sympathetic to the president as to whether there is any noticeable truth and if there is no noticeable truth and if one person says one thing and one network says another and another network says something different, when bob mueller comes out with his report, there is a big chunk of the american population that doesn't believe there is such a thing as objective truth and rudy guiliani's regular performances are designed to sort of promote that notion. >> the only alternative theory is that he's losing it.

if that was the case, i don't think, you know, somebody in the president's orbit would decide not to put him out there constantly. so i think to your point, there has to be that strategy behind it. because the alternative is they're continuing to allow this person to just say stuff, not based on any, you know that we know of information or later claims that wasn't based on any information. >> yeah. i think that's right. look, nobody would hire rudy guiliani to be their defense attorney in the classic sense of the word if they were being charged with a crime. it's probably been decades since rudy guiliani argued in court. he is here because he goes on tv, which, of course, not a typical thing for a defense attorney. anybody that's watched somebody charged or go to trial the attorney says we will be proven right in court and makes no other comments to the press.

rudy guiliani is on tv pretty much every week for the express purpose of speaking to the president's base, by the way many of whose members are in the united states senate and the united states house of representatives, just to muddy the waters to deny to obfuscate, to throw sand in the gears. >> back in november about this deal in russia, the president said there was a good chance that i wouldn't have won, in which case, i would have gotten back into the business and why should i lose lots of opportunities? does that make sense to you? it sort of shows where his priorities were, even though he was running for president, there were still business was still foremost in his mind. >> yeah. well, that statement says couple this i think so to me. first of all, obviously, it's a complete repudiation of the president's previous position is he had nothing going on in russia. absolutely nothing, nada. >> that turns out to be true, so now the president has a reason for why he had ongoing discussions with russia. look, you know, at some level,

programs it makes sense, i might lose the election, in which case i don't want to have badly damaged my business at any level of decency, right or wrong, when are you president, when there is some chance you might be the leader of the free world, it is at that point, of course, you stop doing anything that could give somebody leverage over you that creates a sense of a conflict of interest. the president, of course, doesn't tons notion of a conflict of interest or somebody having lever annual on him. so it's not surprising he came out the way he did on that statement. >> particularly, guiliani is saying about the president talking to cohen before he testified in front of congress. guiliani says it would be quote perfectly normal to have such a conversation. it may not be illegal, depending on what what was or wasn't said, it's not perfectly normal, is it? >> no, it's not normal. there is nothing normal about this. and you're exactly right. it would probably be improper at

any time for somebody who is being investigated to talk to a witness in that investigation. but where it could become seriously problematic and illegal of course is whether the president asked, demanded that michael cohen say any particular thing. certainly if that particular thing was not true. okay, we know that michael cohen is not particularly faithful to the truth. the president is not particularly faithful to the truth so if there was a meeting and the president was encouraging michael cohen to lie to the special counsel, this, of course, takes us back to the still controversial buzzfeed article. >> that is a very serious problem. congressman, appreciate your time, thank you. >> thank you, ander zorn. to get more perspective, joining us is the solicit or general in the obama administration, jeffrey toobin and chief political analyst gloria borger. are these shifting narratives from guiliani and kind of

putting out a statement to explain what his prior statement meant, is that a problem for him? or is that just a part of his strategy? >> i think it's probably a mix of things. but i think there is one overriding goal at the moment in the trump defense camp. which is that he has now submitted answers to the mueller investigation under oath, signed, take home exam. we haven't seen the results, but we know he's done it. guiliani has to tailor all his comments to what trump said in those answers. undoubtedly, some of those trump answers are different from the things he said all along, especially about when these negotiations were going on. as you heard from in all those things, where he said there was nothing going on. obviously, something was going on. so guiliani has to sort of move trump's answer in line with what trump said in the questionnaire without seeming to. and it's impossible. so he sound ridiculous.

>> gloria, what are your sources telling you the strategy is behind what he's doing? >> well, first of all, you have to assume, to jeff's point, that is real trump lawyers, not the tv lawyer, but the real trump lawyers are pulling their hair out over this. because they have answered questions in writing and this could, if there are -- if there is a difference between what rudy guiliani is saying in his many televising vision appearances and what they've written to mueller. this gives an opportunity to mueller to say, wait a minute, i need to talk to the president about what he actually said because his tv lawyer is telling me something very different from what is in the written answers. and i think that could be a real problem for them. i mean the congressman suggested there might be a strategy that he's crazy like a fox and he's throwing up everything against the wall so he can deflect and confuse people and there may be

something to that. but i think it really is more likely that guiliani may be talking to the president a number of times and maybe getting different stories each time he talks to the president. and then the other lawyers are kind of going nuts over this. >> neil, if guiliani is saying things that conflict with the president's written answers to mueller, how much weight would that carry in terms of mueller's efforts to get some sort of follow-up interview with the president? >> i think it can carry a lot. i think putting it mildly, rudy guiliani is not behaving like most lawyers, whether on tv lawyers or any other kind, certainly not a presidential lawyer. i mean, really it's like every sunday is open mic night with rudy and it's like, you know, what's he going to test out this time in terms of material? it will bomb and the next day he's got to walk it back. we've seen it now time and time again. you know, one pattern that has emerged is, that first time he

says something, those turn out to be true. a year-and-a-half ago he said it was a muslim ban. it turned out it was a muslim ban. then he said the president knew about the payments to stormy. that was also true. last week with chris cuomo, he said, he essentially admitted there was some collusion, it wasn't with the president. he tried to walk that back, it seems all of that is true as well. one of the things going on here, jeff pointed it out. you have these answers to mueller, but you got a guy who is serially incapable of telling the truth. he hires people around him incapable of telling the truth so any lawyer on tv is faced with this difficult thing that guiliani faces. >> but i do think his lawyers have beaten him up enough so that the answers to questions under oath are either ler sufficiently vague or sufficiently true that they will not be actually perjurious. but those true answers have to

be different from what he said all through the campaign. it's just obvious that his story has changed and you can sue guiliani is sort of moving the story in his ham-handed way towards the way it's been. >> rudy guiliani is telling every story. he's not, you know, he's not advancing the story. what he's doing is he's telling different versions of the same story. and that could be because that's what his client is doing. >> neil. >> oh, i think one thing that's going on here, we're talking about the crime. that's what jeff is talking about, that careful lawyering in answers to mueller. there is something significant here. forget if a crime was committed with russia. trump lied to the american people over and over again before the 2016 election saying no business dealings with russia and all this stuff anderson that you played in your video. forget about if it's a crime or not. >> that is of momentous importance. this is why guiliani is trying

to walk these two roles, lawyer and public relations consultant. >> the sheer totality of lies that have been tolt, i'm not -- i'm not sure it registers with, you know, the hard core believers. >> it may not. look. i don't think -- >> i mean in normal times what you are saying is, yes, it turns out he was lying. he was lying the whole time. that would be a big deal. at this point it seems sort of normal or baked in. >> but this is a different kind of lying. its not lying about some personal affair. this is lying about money. hundreds of millions of money he stood to gain, a $50 million payoff they were going to give to putin. it was on the eve of the election. after repeated times of denying it, i think there is a reason why there is so much lying to this day. is they don't want the american public to find out what happened. >> it's more than that. it's not lying about money, about sort of financial transactions.

it's about where was donald trump's loyalty actually going? was his loyalty to the american people or was it to the russian thank you all, as always, coming up next the shutdown. the senate republican, we'll talk about it two people who have seen him up close. later lawmakers go there, openly calling the president a racist. ♪

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♪ day 31 of the government shutdown. the pain, of course, spreading. 800,000 people are not getting paid. food stamps may be set up for employees. tomorrow mitch mcconnell may interinformation to end the shutdown. whether democrats get on board remains to be seen. later today, here's what the president tweeted about the speaker of the house at the center of the standoff. if nancy pelosi is saying walls are immoral. why isn't she taking down the new ones built in san diego at their very strong urging? let millions of unchecked strangers flow into the u.s.? moments later, we will dig deep tore his skills, he points to frequently. first our caitlin collins at the white house with the latest. 31 days into this, still no deem. what are you learning? >> reporter: well, we're

essentially where we were when we started this 31 days ago. as you noted, mitch mcconnell is expected to introduce the president's proposal tomorrow that could then set us up for potentially a thursday vote. not bun u one democrat has voiced support for his proposal since he laid it out on saturday. a senior democratic aid tells our hill team this is a non-starter. they do not think it will get 60 votes to pass, even if the white house hopes to convince some democrats to come over to their side. the white house knows there the a possibility it won't go anywhere. then they feel they will sister the optics on their side. they made it look like they have at least tried to move the negotiations forward. it's the democrats refusing to come on board. >> the senate republicans put a show of support, what are reseeing from democrats? >> reporter: democrats are expected to layout bills including up to a billion for border security funding. no funding for the president's border wall. of course, that means that bill is dead on arrival in the senate, especially according to

republicans there, who sigh they will do that if it's not the money the president wants as a part of that. so as you can see from what those two plans are from republicans and democrats, neither of them seem like they have a future if they will go anywhere. essentially, that brings us back where we started. white house aides are getting desperate hoping to find some kind of exit strategy here. that's why they laid out the president's proposal on a saturday afternoon. they are aware of these polls holding most americans are holding the president responsible, not democrats. anderson, if they can't find a way out in the next few days, they want to be able to change the optics. >> appreciate it. thanks. the shutdown calls into question what president trump long called his forte, "the art of the deal." as he did during decades of business, mr. trump insulted adversaries, undermined his aides, and induced chaos, joining us now two people who

have seen donald trump's deal making up close, former trump executive barra res, author of all alone on the 68th floor. how one woman changed the face of construction. and mike an d antonia, the shadow of the government, mike pence. is donald trump a master negotiator? >> i have been thinking about this a lot. people have been asking me this. it's also in the news. he had certain things he could do well. he did do them better when he started out than as time went on. he got more used to getting his way and more demanding. but he's never been any kind of a collaborator. he's never worked with other people. stockmarket, even when he had partners, it killed him to make money for other people. he always bought his partners out. >> is that right? >> he was a one-man show. employees, he'd make a deal to give them a piece of something.

when it became valuable. he'd get very angry at them. >> really? >> donald wanted his hard work to enyour to his benefit only. you know, this is about the country. it's not about him. i think that there is a little bit of questioning where that line is and what he's acting now. he's letting his ego get completely in the way of the negotiation. which he didn't. he didn't always. >> early on, he didn't do that? >> no no first of all, he worked with people much more closely and trusted people, politicians mostly. people that he owned. and lawyers that were really, really connected and had done this a million times and he let them take the ball and listened to them a lot. as time went over, he thought the ideas were his. he thought his ideas were better. that's when i saw some of the changes in him. >> was president trump actually a great deal maker when he was a businessman or was that more public relations than reality thing?

>> well, i think what barbara said about the president doing well at the beginning with negotiations, especially working with others, especially when his father was his primary partner and people forget that in the beginning with trump tower, which barbara worked on, also with the commodore hotel, which was his first really big project, his father was really the power mind the power and done and was very good as working with his dad and working with their relations that his dad had built up over the years. but later you look at things like when he bought a part of eastern airlines and rebranded it as the trump shuttle or the plaza hotel, he was terrible at making those deals and even worse at executing them so over time, i think he came to regard his own abilities as maybe something like what people read

in the "art of the deem." and most of what's in "the art of the deal" was fought from the president. it was from tony schwartz. even the title came from tony. so we have to wonder at every step of the way what is donald trump really responsible for and how much is just this hype that's the development of his reputation? >> and none of which would really matter if he wasn't the president of the united states and meeting one on one with vladimir putin multiple times, one on one with kim jong-un with no one else present in the room, which is highly unusual. he, for whatever reason, he insists on meeting with these people alone. i mean, the polite explanation is that he feels so confident in his deal making that by force of his personality he can somehow make this happen. >> yes, that wouldn't explain he doesn't want anybody to know what was said. i'm very worried about that, to be honest.

>> are you? >> yes. going back to what michael said. he did have a lot of skills in the beginning. one of the things he doesn't boast about, his greatest skill is his salesmanship. he can sell ice in the wint tore eskimos. he built his reputation on him selling himself and this deal making thing is a part of that and he has sold himself to people. in looking back at it, well, some deals were good. by launch, most of them were not so good. like the later ones the plaza and the shuttle. >> the casino stuff that didn't end well, right? >> no no it didn't. especially the taj mahal, which was probably his downfall. he had to have it. it was the biggest casino in atlantic city. that's when i say his ego took over. >> is that a part of the problem, you think, his ego? >> it definitely s. i remember when i discussed with then businessman trump this idea of negotiating so that everyone

wins. and experts on negotiation will say that the key to it is having empathy for the other party to understand where their win is located and then get to a place where everybody wins. and so i said to him, what do you think of this concept of win-win? and he said, i prefer the concept of i win. so that's really where he's at when it comes to negotiation. and it's i think why he has so much trouble on the world stage. there are so many moving parts so many bilateral relationships that he can't keep track of them. >> michael the antonia, barra rez, a pleasure to have you. on this martin luther king day, many are letting loose on the president. there is no holding back. was it fair? rule hear it next. ourself in a world which is doing it's best you'll hear it next.

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on martin luther king day, most u.s. presidents honor the holiday with a ceremony. today president trump did neither. he visited the civil rights icon memorial in washington. he faced an onslaught criticism from the race for setting back race relations during his time in office. some lawmakers took it further today. >> we have a hater in the white house. the birther in chief. the grand wizard of 1,600 pennsylvania avenue. >> that was congressman hakeem jeffreys. this is senator bernie sanders. >> today we talk about justice

and today we talk about racism. and i must tell you, it gives me no pleasure to tell you that we now have a president of the united states who is a racist. >> well, he went there. joining me is an opinion columnist from the "new york times" and a former trump campaign adviser steve cortez. charles, is it appropriate for a sitting member of congress to refer to the president as the grand wizard of 1,600 pennsylvania avenue? >> i can't object to that. because i've referred to him as the grand wizard of birther-ism, myself. i'm vexed by the whole idea we come back to this question whether or not the man is a racist when it is clear that his pattern of behavior over his entire life suggests that he is. and the fact that we keep discussing this as if it is an arguable point does damage to the truth. i mean, my definition of this is

a combination of your words and deeds and your responses to other people being aggrieved by your words and your deeds. do you say things that are racially insensitive or racist? do you do things that are racist? when people call you on it, do you apologize for it? do you try toy clarify? do you back off of it anyway? he's not done any of that. he has done all of it to the former two to qualify. as a racist. the fact we keep coming back to this i remember, i have been in news for 24 years. i remember a time when we did not call people a liar. because we were saying, well we don't know what their intention was. we said intent was the definition of lying. what's in their heart. now we say lie all the time. in fact, it's not what's in your heart. it's about what is true and what is not. it is about the result of it. this is the same thing we're now facing with this issue of race and racism. we keep saying, we don't know. i can't say.

i don't know what's in his heart. it's not about his heart at all. at the keep posing this question as if it is a question does damage to the truth. >> steve. what about that? i mean, i clearly -- i assume you do not believe the president is racist? he certainly said racist things, yes? >> no, i won't certainly concede that, what has he said that is racist, anderson? >> calling african countries, you know, s-hole countries the people there have aids, in haiti, people in nigeria live in huts. >> okay s. any of that substantiated on the record? >> that there is good people on both sides at a neo-nazi rally? >> let's take those one at a time. the things you said about s-hole countries. >> the neo-nazi real, tiki torch march. he's saying there is good people on both sides. >> let's talk about that that's not at all what he said. it was very, very clear in the context that he was saying there are good people on both sides of

the confederate monument debate and that is very true, there are people who believe it's important to preserve that heritage who are not racist. >> we were talking about -- >> -- he was talking about the friday night tiki torch march, people were chanting. >> that's not accurate. it was very clear in context he was talking about the debate. but look, i think on a bicker point. here's the issue. when people like charles blow and congressman jeffreys sland ter president and continue to call him racist, here's what they're trying to do. marginalize him and our entire movement. they're trying to say you have no stand income polite zoo society. why? you're disrupting the system that we have built, whichbuilt on identity politics, which serves the interests, yes, of a lot of politicians who happen to be of color, not communities of color. ly tell you regarding the president's heart, charles, when i met him for the first time as president. the first time i talked to him

in the oval office. the first thing he said to me no, cameras anywhere. was what can i do to empower the hispanic community? we had substantive conversations. not conversations, results. my answer was small business. the best way to have black and brown people in this country is to revitalize entrepreneurialship. >> that has happened, it's amazing. i believe it's one of the reasons why hispanic support to him according to pbs has ris on the 50 part approval f. he's a racist, he's the worst racist in history. >> let me tell you this as well, first of all, never say that i am slandering anybody. are you lying. >> calling am racist is a slander. >> i didn't interrupt you and you are not going to interrupt me. when you were telling the world that i was slandering somebody. you were telling that lie. you will not interrupt me. secondly, i believe that people who pretend not to see racism or

defend racism as steve just did are a part of that racism, which i believe steve is a part of that racism. >> okay. so i can't call you a slanderer for calling the president a racist, but you can ultimately call mae racist without efrtdz or justification. this is exactly the demagogue. >> i told you the parameters, are people who pretend not to see it and people who defend it are a part of it. >> how could you probably. >> you gentleman pre tended not to see it and knowingly defended it that means are you a part of it. >> how could you possibly know i'm pretending? tell me that. >> steve the fact. >> because you're not blind, they play the clips in front of you like they play them in front of me. you watch them on televising vision, you come on ask anderson to enumerate the ways in which the president were racist, things he said were racist and pre tuned didn't know them already, was already false. was already false. you knew it was false.

you want to put him back on his heels to take up the time to enumerate these things you already knew. you enumerated those things, you started to defend them as not being what everybody in america knows they are. that's fine, steve. you can be a part of it. i'm not knocking you for supporting his racism. >> i'm not supporting. no. >> i have eyings, ears, i can see you doing it. you can see yourself doing it. you need to own it. >> no and as a matter of fact you know what's truly racist is to say that we're going to consign an entire american communitys to low expectations and quite frankly to low output when it comes to education, when it comes to the economy. what the president has done, he says, no, we're going to have the highest expectation for all americans of all colors and our policies are going to pursue prosperity and security for black and brown people first of all. last year was the first year in america over a decade hispanic incomes outpaced white incomes.

that's no accident. that's the reason for policy the president is insis at the present time on immigration. he knows the principles people hurt by illegal immigration are black and hispanic americans. he wants to protect them and -- >> that is a deflection, that is a classic deflection. he switches over, he switches it over to talk about the economy. >> he was talking about the monument. >> but that is a classic example. >> steve -- >> i applaud you. i applaud what you do. you are really good at this thing. you take an issue, you won't answer the question. if you do answer the question, you either lie or deflect and go to something else. that's interesting. >> what lie have i told? >> it is a problem. what you are doing because it is damage to the truth. >> steve, does it bother you that somebody like david duke is such a supporter of the president and always giving him applaud for the things he said. the things the president says

register on the radar so strongly of white supremeists and racists? does that not raise any concern to you? >> of course, it does, it bothers me when crazies support any legitimate movement. the president does not endorse him. it bothers me the shooter of steve scalise -- >> the president pretended he didn't know who he was. >> it doesn't mean that senator sanders endorses that rep rehenceible attempted murder so if we want to afflictions crazies to political movements, i think that's an unfair way to proceed and we can do wit both side. but would it bother me? of course. it would bother me tremendously more if the president were doing anything in policy terms that david duke would like. in fact, he's doing the opposite. he's empowering blacks and latinos. >> i lived through david duke in louisiana. i was there and watched it real

time. also this past election cycle, i tried a course -- there have been amazing books written about david duke's political life, not him as the grand wizard of the kkk, his political life. the plem, both in terms of policy in terms of the way he treats the media, in terms of the way he articulates his campaign and his appeal to white voters is exactly the same as donald trump. in fact, the "new york times" wrote a story a couple years ago about how if youstrich away all of the white supremacy stuff from david buick. it was a blue print for how the president gop is running on a policy level. not about like i'm the exgrand wizard. he basically was the blue print. so it's like, i would be upset if it was a policy issue. you should be upset. >> we got to leave it there. charles blow, steve core tedz. i appreciate it. the democratic field for the 2020 election getting more crowded. seemingly by the day.

senator camela harris is the latest to announce. we'll have more on that next.

>> here's what she said today at washington's howard university. >> we are a diverse country, yes

and some people would suggest that in diversity, when there is a diverse population one cannot achieve unity. i reject that notion. this is my belief. yes, we are diverse, and and when we recognize the commonality, we will achieve greater unity. >> the democratic field is bound to get bigger the big question is who will have the staying power to appeal to the broadest democratic base. first of all, your reaction? >> i'm happy. i have known her for 20 years. she's extraordinary. incredible leader. people talk about california, california is mostly calabama.

you have a blue area and the rest of the state is bright red. he'll do very, very well with this democratic party. >> do you think anybody knows how to run against president trump at this point? >> no, this is uncharted territory for most politicians because they haven't had to run against donald trump. he just threw everybody off base so much. now we had a little bit more experience with him. it was such a shock to the system. i haven't seen anybody other than nancy pelosi that seems to know how to interact with him and stand up with him and come out on top. >> listen, i remember when he

came down the escalator and we were all joking about him and appalled by him and there was this running joke about how many more weeks before trump blows himself up and we're still having that conversation three years later. there's going to be two things. who is the best champion to go up against trump. how can this person stack up against trump? but the other is who can pull this party together? our party is a big tent and there's different views about all out progressive or diverse or should we go more toward the center. that has to get sorted out. >> where do you stand on that? >> it comes down to the candidate. if you have a world class candidate, you can do either of those. we were laughing at the

republicans for having 12 last time, we're going to have like 22. risers. so whoever our nominee is is going to have overcome everybody in the party and they'll be very strong. >> is there weakness in having so many candidates? to have 20 people running, is that -- does the best rise to the top? >> well, i think they're going to have to. of course it would be more ideal and that person doesn't exist. there's a lot of tension in the democratic party about what people want in their candidate and i think that there's going to be a lot of pressure obviously from the progressives. and i think that it's probably because nobody has emerged as

really the one. there's no barrack obama type person that emerged. so i think it is good. i think you want to have as many people as possible so that you can start to figure out who might be that person and see how they perform on the national stage to make a judgment about what they would be like against donald trump. >> if joe biden gets in the race, would president obama endorse him? >> that's a very good question and i don't have a good answer except for to say that even when hillary clinton ran, he didn't endorse until early june. so he stayed out when it was just hillary and bernie. nobody had any doubt about who he wanted and he stayed out until it was like june 6th. i don't think he's going to come in and clear the field. a lot of these are obama babies.

beto looks up to obama. kamala harris and obama are peers and friends. biden has history with obama. if obama didn't clear the field of bernie for hillary, i don't see how he waits. >> thank you so much. appreciate it. a lot more ahead. very latest on the breaking news on the government shutdown. possible action in the senate tomorrow and new move by majority leader mitch mcconnell and the latest on the russia investigation and rudy giuliani's latest walk back. u. how many kids? my two. his three. along with two dogs and jake, our new parrot. that is quite the family. quite a lot of colleges to pay for though. a lot of colleges. you get any financial advice? yeah, but i'm pretty sure it's the same plan they sold me before. well your situation's totally changed now. right, right. how 'bout a plan that works for 5 kids, 2 dogs and jake over here? that would be great. that would be great. that okay with you, jake?

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