it's every week day night. news continues right now. we will hand it over to chris cuomo. >> i am chris cuomo and welcome to "primetime." a key center says there's a chance a shutdown could end when they vote on the pra proposals thursday. then, why is robert mueller seeking information on the trump campaign's ties to the nra? how does the president's lawyer's radical retakes affect that. and partisan america polarized over the lincoln memorial standoff. is this really over arguing over who is to blame but is there a bigger too bigger truth we all must agree on. what do you say? let's get after it. here's where we are, week five

of the shutdown and now it's all but certain that hundreds of thousands of government workers with families and debts and needs will again miss their paychecks on friday. the hope for this week comes thursday, and one which is the president's offer on the wall largely in exchange for some relief for daca and temporary relief to workers and to re-open, and both measures, they do appear to be dead on arrival and here's why. democrats have the votes to block the president's proposal and vice versa. >> senator, thank you for joining us. >> absolutely, chris. >> so the big question, what is the chance that the government re-opens this week? >> chris, today the door opened a little bit. i think we have a little path and we're going to have two

votes thursday afternoon, and the first vote will be on the president's proposal he put on the table saturday. that will not pass in the form that it's in unless it first goes to committee and we have a chance to discuss it and improve it by amendment. the second vote is going to be a vote to just re-open government until the 8th of february while we work on a proposal to see if we can find a compromise. the first vote is going to fail. there's a fighting chance to get that second vote to pass and then spin that intense 15 days examining the president's proposal, but making amendments so we can improve that and find compromise. >> and the leverage is if you want to get people paid and stop the pain of the shutdown. >> we need to. >> he won't okay your bill because he loses his leverage to get you guys to make a deal

right now. where does your optimism come from? >> from talking to my republic senate colleagues. you are right, if you talk to the real politics, the president thinks his leverage is hurting millions of people, and i went to lunch, and we are not in a depression. the stock market is great and the economy is good according to the white house, so why are you punishing uniformed law enforcement and making them stand in the cold to get a soup or sandwich. he thinks it's leverage but the republican senators are increasingly uncomfortable with that notion, so my thought is this, if the president knew that we would take up his bill promptly, and not four corners offensed and take months, but put it in the committee the republicans control, they are

the majority and they control the floor, if he knew we would take it up promptly and try to make it work better to let it pass the house, maybe he could accept that. >> on his side, he has to have a guarantee there's going to be action, and that's not a new consideration. the new consideration for you is whether or not you get 13 of your so-called brothers and sisters on the republican side to vote with you? >> that's it. you can look at it as a little bit of a rubik's cube. the democrats cannot take his proposal seriously until the government re-opens and he will say i can't re-open it until i know you can take the proposal seriously. the administration needs to come up and tell us in the american public why each of these elements are important, and

chris, we can do that in 15 days between thursday and february 8, and i hope we will send a signal to the white house that that's what we will, in fact, do. >> look, the pain is real. they are measuring the economic shutdown, not just on the families who are not getting paid but the residual economic toll period. >> sizeable. >> you are getting close to $6 billion if you make it through this week in terms of loss affect from this. look, these are s&p global ratings on it, and it's not about fighting over the numbers. the pain is real. are you worried with time, while you have the president of the united states having said on national television that he is shutting down the government and he will carry the mantle, and are you worried there will be an erosion of trust even if you are

not being blamed? >> it's bad for workers and citizens and bad for our reputation. it's all bad. it's all bad. here's what my folks want. they want us to not only get out of the shutdown but get out of it in a way where we discredit the use of a shutdown as a threat again rather than give it power. for example, if we let the president, by taking paychecks away from fbi agents and air traffic controllers, forcing us to do a deal we don't want to do, he will use that tactic every time he doesn't get what he wants, so i was with coast guard folks earlier today, and they are saying get the government open and do it in a way where we don't have to worry about a shutdown in the future, but if we can discredit the use of a shutdown we will have done a good thing. >> do you have any guarantee or sense of confidence that the house would behave the way they

would have to in order for the deal to work, that nancy pelosi would have democrats to hammer out a deal that she has not wanted to do before but with this kind of time pressure do you think she would go for that? >> no guarantee, but here are two elements. number one, house of action is always easier if something comes out of the senate with a strong bipartisan push. if it's going to come out with every republican and a few democrats, that's enough over in the house. if it comes out bipartisan and to get there we have got to have this normal process in committee, it increases the chances. second, on the border security piece, for me, i'm just talking about for me, the dollar figure isn't the challenge, it's just making sure the money is used right and not wasted so the four elements are the right elements to be discussing. you have house leadership making the point, and the president's proposal is an opening tkpwa--

think he called it a strawman proposal, and let's really make it constructive by having the normal processes of consideration, amendment debate and vote happen in a prompt time fashion, and the white house should be satisfied with that. >> do you they will fund physical security and whatever technology they want or are you in the not one dollar for that wall school? >> i am in the camp that has been willing to fund significant amounts of border security if my border security professionals look me in the face and say this is what is needed to keep us safe, so i have not opposed the security proposals in the past if you get the security professionals to say this is what is needed, but i do oppose taking all the money and building the wall, and as you know every member of congress who represents the border,

democratic and republican says using it for a wall is a bad idea. >> can you make sense of what is going on with the president's legal team and what they are putting out on television. do you believe this is crazy talk or crazy talk like a fox? >> i would say the former. i think rudy guiliani and his statements are all over the map. you know, there's tapes that the conversations about the russia hotel deal was going on right up to the time of the november 16th election and then retracting that. i don't think frankly that anybody takes seriously with the possible exception, the day-to-day switches in direction of rudy guiliani. we have no idea whether what he says is true or whether it has been blessed by his client or he might correct it tomorrow. i will say this, it's notable so many of the steps and missteps and corrections are all about the same thing, russia.

>> senator, thank you for giving us the latest update on where the talks are. that's one open question we have to keep an eye on here. here's another one. is the president's legal team just confused or purposely trying to confuse you? the president's lawyers suggested he was lying for po potus, and now says that's not true, i'm not lying for you, and are you wondering why they are doing this? all that matters are the facts and we have them next. [kno♪king] ♪

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so potus says one thing and the lawyers say another and the rest of us wonder why lie? this cascade of confusion started in earnest right here last week when the president's position on collusion went from this -- >> there's no collusion between me and my campaign and the

russians. >> to this -- >> i never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign -- >> yes, you have. >> i have not. i said the president of the united states. >> now that collapse on collusion was not the only bait and switch. remember, when were told any talk of a trump tower moscow was shut down in june of 2016. june. that was until this happened. >> as far as the president was concerned an active project to at least october or november of 2016, an active potential deal? >> yeah, i would say an active proposal. >> an active proposal right up until the election. in other words, if that's true, one, the president again was not straight with you and regarding the probe, at the same time he was calling for an end to sanctions on russia, he was saying things like this. >> i know nothing about russia. i know about russia but i know

nothing about the inner workings of russia, and i have no loans from russia. >> wrong. this new timing would seem to fit with this quote in the "new york times" where the president's lawyer, rudy guiliani, he said trump told him, quote, discussions were going on from the day i announced to the day i won. the next day guiliani told "the new yorker" he did not say that. he said it was all hypothetical. at the same time trump supporters were pushing this line, the trump tower deal was all michael cohen. >> we don't know anything about it. ultimately it was michael cohen essentially trying to get a deal done. >> it was being run by michael cohen. it was his project. >> it was an active proposal and deals were ongoing but if they were they were only hypothetical and it was really only about michael cohen. what? the key quote is probably from

the former major of new york is actively wondering if his gravestone would read, rudy guiliani, he lied for trump. and he cleared that up and said, no, no, i'm not lying. so much twisting for something that the president said he had no concern about. listen to this. >> there would be nothing wrong if i did. i was running my business while i was campaigning. there was a good chance i wouldn't have won, in which case i would have gotten back into the business. >> it was all cohen but cohen said he was updating the kids and we know the president signed the letter of intent, i showed it to you. he had to know the truth come out. that makes the big question the same as always. if there was nothing to hide why lie? we don't know yet, but we do know this. potus can lie to you and to me and the only penalty is political, but not with mueller. i would argue that's why his

president, his lawyer described a very different answer about the tower deal to investigators than the answer the president gave to you. remember one thing. ultimately crimes or no, this will all come down to what lies were told and why. now, another new piece of information. we know that mueller has been looking into ties between team trump and russia, but that's not all. he's enquiring about the campaign's ties to the nra. why? does it have anything to do with an alleged spy? cuomo's court in session, next. -ah, the old crew!

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from networks like epix, lifetime movie club, hallmark movies now, and history vault. just say, "show me movie week." that's a full week of your favorite hit movies on your tv, online, or on the go with the xfinity stream app. [shouting] and it's all on us, all week long. you've got some serious watching to do. tonight a $30 million question. why is bob mueller interested in the trump campaign's ties to the nra? 30 million i say because that's how much the nra spent to back trump's candidacy in 2016, and the organization is facing scrutiny for connections to russian nationals like the woman

that tried to infiltrate the nra, and he caught attention with the then, just donald trump, in 2015. >> what would be your foreign politics especially in relationships with my country? >> i believe i would get along very nicely with putin. i don't think you need the sanctions. i think we would get along very, very well. >> i talked to you about that sound before and i never have been given an answer about why he called on her? what was she doing there? and let's discuss it. good to have you both, and yes, i only read the report from sam nunnburg saying i was asked by bob mueller about this stuff. they gave trump, you know, just to quit the laughing quick, they gave trump a hell of a lot more

money than they usually do. the butina connection, not a good look for the nra. what do you see in this suggestion? >> what i see is how i have been making sense of mueller's investigation since it began, which is that russia's active measures had four main threads. one was a social media disinformation campaign, and then the hacking of the dnc server, and political influence using agents to try and charm and bring in people in positions of power, and then you have a campaign finance thread. so far we have seen charges and indictments brought on the first three threads, and i think what this is is a little tidbit that mueller is, in fact, looking into this fourth thread of whether russia may have channelled illegally foreign

funds into a federal campaign in violation of campaign finance laws. you know, that increase in spending by the nra, and butina would raise suspicion on that front. >> ken? >> first of all, people -- it may seem odd in this day and age, until recently the nra was fairly bipartisan in its support, and they did that quite intentionally and sometimes to the frustration to some of us who are on the right, but in recent years as the democrats have thrown in the towel virtually across the board on being protective of second amendment rights at any level, the nra has responded by skewing its support for the first time in its history to republicans. don't take the spike in 2016 as

something anomalous for the nra because they have money coming in, and it's a change for the nra because the politics on the united states on the issue they care about, guns and the second amendment has become polarized between the two parties. used to be they supported harry reid -- >> it was probably all those dead kids that started to skew the perspective -- >> chris -- >> dead kids tend to do that. >> that's just bologna. if people were armed to defend those kids -- >> that's bologna. that's the bologna. >> oh, let's get the facts here. >> you have more guns than you have people, and i don't see them stopping any mass shootings on any regular basis, do they? >> chris, just to be clear -- >> when an armed deputy sits out

the school -- >> that's a cop. >> he doesn't do anything. >> make your point? >> bringing it back to mueller, i don't think mueller's investigation has to do with the politics about gun control in this country. >> of course not. >> what he is doing is -- right. i don't think that ken can so conclusively come to the conclusion that the spike doesn't mean anything. mueller is following the money. we do know that maria butina, a russia spy was involved in going into nra circles and having a russian banker that has a not of funds involved in this, and if somehow russia was trying to use a legitimate u.s. organization or legitimate u.s. persons as straw donors are illegal campaign contributions, that would be a problem regardless of where you stand on gun control. >> just a suggestion. >> i agree.

>> when the report comes out we will learn more. ken, let me get to something else that is pressing. you heard the question i laid out whether or not the legal team around the president is confused or trying to confuse other people. what is your take on that? >> well, of course your question centers around motives, but if i could be a professional for a moment. there's no way you can look at rudy guiliani's last three days of -- i'll call it performance for his client and say that helps his client. there's just no cast you can put on that that is positive, good and legal representation in the public arena for his client. i am astonished at the poor performance we are seeing here as a representative by rudy guiliani. it's really, really poor. >> i take ken's criticism, and i

don't see it as a legal performance. i think rudy guiliani's main job is pr and try to spread as much confusion and cast doubt -- >> but that's done badly. >> look, he has a lot of people talking about it. how else do you explain these rank inconsistencies? >> unless he's actually employing russian manipulation particulars and propaganda, i agree with ken that i don't see any long-term strategy that helps his client in this performance. it's like improv every sunday. it's like let's see what rudy comes up with, and then we sit here and dissect it. what he divulges is worse than what the public already knew. what he suggested is leading up to the point where he won the

election that donald trump may have had a vested financial interest in a deal in moscow while he was trying to promote even in the platform of the republican national convention, a pro russia stance. this has a lot of issues quite apart from criminality, and it has national security implications and other implications that does not help his clients no matter how you spin it. >> i thought it was very telling that rudy guiliani quoted an answer, and it was a different timeline because it had to be. it's not politics there, it's real. there's exposure. >> well argued, both of you, even in you don't agree with me, it makes it even better. thank you for being here. i appreciate it. another big story plaguing our dialogue right now. the confrontation at the lincoln memorial. people are upset and it makes sense you are upset about it.

everybody is judging it through the lens of your own politics, and that's the problem. this is not about simply right and wrong, it's about what should be better. great debate, next. ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller transitions™ light under control™ transitions™ presents four new colors style colors by transitions™

so the kid at the center of the maga hat controversy has

spoken. >> as far as standing there, i had every right to do so. in hindsight i wish we could have washed away. >> the president used the situation, however, to his advantage, tweeting they have become symbols of fake news and how evil it can be. the president chose to take sides to divide. the question for him is why? the bigger question is what should happen here? good to have you on the show. first time. angela, how do you see what matters here? >> well, there are a number of sides to every story. people say there are two sides and then there's the truth and i think this is so much deeper than that. we are of course on the other side of celebrating dr. king's holiday, and this country could not be more divided. there are a number of us that when we see what happened, some deem it as a altercation and

some see it as a standoff, i see the hat and the hat represents so much more than free speech. this is a hat that represents the man that announced his campaign with mexicans being drug dealers and rapist, and let's build this wall, and this hat represents a man that said he would pay the legal fees of somebody that punched a protester at his rally, and it's hard to divorce his policies, the rhetoric, the propaganda and his supporters from these actions. unfortunately these young men that perhaps one day will regret their actions, it sounds like, the main one that was standing right in the face of the native american leader is already regretting some of those actions. unfortunately it represents so much of what we have seen, not just in 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016,

but we have seen in this country from it's founding. >> chris, like any story, depending on who is tphaenarratt depends on who you defends. and nathan phillips cou, i don' understand why the parents or the teachers did not remove these students immediately. had i been there and those would have been my children i would have removed them from the hostile escalation that could have escalated quite quickly, and it looked like nathan phillips got too close to the children and the children should have backed off as well, and i think it saved what could have been a much bigger and unfortunate situation. >> people were going after phillips and changed his story,

yes, he walked up to the kids and they were trying to diffuse, and there was no violence, thank god, and there's not anything more ugly than in the video, so take that as a win. angela, then we have this. the president comes out and speaks on this. not steve king. not steve king. won't say anything about steve king's message. nothing. even on mlk weekend, nothing. he does come out and say this and clearly takes a side and takes a shot at the media and something more. you think it's just him defending his hat? what does it mean to you? >> no. it's so interesting, chris, right? we think about the time when barack obama was criticized so heavily for the beer summit between the police officer and henry lewis gates who we know was a legend and in his own home. a beer summit to bring two sides together. once again this president is demonizing one side, and it's

not just one side but demonizing the media, and that's his favorite enemy to pick up, and then taking the side against this native american. we have to remember what was happening, it was an indigenous people's march, and he had every right to stand his ground, and i should pick another term because we know what that means these days -- >> yeah, god forbid. >> instead of using his platform as commander-in-chief to bring people together to end some of the rhetoric, some of the challenges and the greatest conflicts of our time he is again choosing sides and doubling down on the hateful rhetoric that we have seen in years. >> why jump on this andre? why try to bring the kids to the white house? the facts are unclear of when they were invited, but why ignore king? >> i find myself usually on the

other side, but i think the president missed what would have been a better opportunity to take the high ground for both sides and saying we need to come together on such a special occasion like martin luther king's birthday. we need to be kinder to one another. >> why didn't he do that? why does he never do that? >> doesn't know how. >> i think the president continues to feel like, as republicans do, and the media tends to favor the other side and he continues to feel like it's a beatdown every day in the media just as he was falsely accused just a few short days before that. so i think he felt much like these young people had been -- >> falsely accused of what? >> i think he took their side. >> what was he falsely accused of? >> he was falsely accused of talking to the other side, the

media immediately jumped on an untrue story and then every pundit out there said, oh, well, immediately he needs to be impeached -- >> you are talking about the buzzfeed story and that was on the president's mind so when this happened he decided to take a, you know, a situation as volatile as this and play it to his advantage because he was upset about the buzzfeed story? >> he sees so much coverage that is not true and unfair to him, so when he sees this happen to other people he understands what -- >> i hear the argument, and it's hard to accept. i have never seen a man in the oval office, the president see, lie and mistake as often as this president has.

the idea that he is offended by things that are not accurate, that's hard to believe. >> not only is it hard to believe, it's hard to accept. i wish for one moment we could talk about what we see. people are talking about what is happening right now as a result of what happened in this particular incident is our varying perspectives, and i think that's a powerful point. forget donald trump for a moment and think about the simple of the red hat. when i see the make america great again hat, chris, i am triggered. i think in a lot of ways our friendship has been compromised because you continue to support this man, and more than anybody else i know on this network you will regularly take donald trump to task. i don't agree with you on this last point, but this make america great hat is as maddening and triggering for me to look at as the kkk hood. that's what his policies represent. until we can have common ground,

we going to continue to have problems. >> you don't let people run around in your head rent free. a lot of people take that red hat because they believe we elected an individual that would go in and drain the swamp, and to where we believe america was first and to make it great again when we look after people first -- >> when was that, andre? when was it great, andre? when was it great, andre? >> i don't believe -- >> no, when was it great again? tell me the year. >> you know the problem with this. >> i think it gets better every day. >> andre is being smart.

to angela's point about being sensitive, i understand the hat is understood differently, and i get it and it's not just a hat and that's why we have to know why the kids were wearing it there. as always, be well. >> thank you. can you remember the last time the white house had a daily briefing with the press? remember it used to have them all the time? the president says he gave the directive to stop the briefing. one thing that he will own. why will he own this, next.

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i can worry about it, or doe. something about it. garlique helps maintain healthy cholesterol naturally, and it's odor-free, and pharmacist recommended. garlique he tweeted the reason sarah sanders does not go to the podium anymore is because the reporters are inaccurate, and i

told her not to bother. most will never cover us fairly, and hence the term, fake news. let's bring in dee lemon. there's one thing the president is leaving out in his analysis, and it happens to matter the most. the point of the briefing is not for the president's point to get spewed out and spread, and it's to be tested by the people. he overlooks that because he has very little appetite for it. >> it's a convenient response. let's just remember, right, the impetus, the start. more people at this inauguration, period, ever, whatever, it started the first one, which is not really questions, just came out and there was a statement, was a lie. >> that was spicer. >> it was spicer, but it went on from there. you can track the misstatements,

the falsehoods and the lies from sarah sanders as well. also, the method in which he goes by doing it. it's a tough job, but she cuts people off and doesn't want to hear what people say, and she doesn't allow follow-ups. then they complain it's contentious. if you lie more than any other administration, it's going to be more contentious. the last press briefing was december 18th. today is january 22nd. there was the fake briefing they gave on january 3rd, and the president came out and then just talked about the wall and it was a political thing and then he just moved on. >> look, i think everything you say is 100%. it's never been cozy. the press should not the be cozy with power, and it gets tricky because you have to know the

line and you have to test those you may be comfy with, and the best advice is to keep a little distance. sander's tactics are not new. the big difference is the lies, and he turned it on the media and >> i have to disagree with you. yeah, that's new. this degree of deflection and misperceptions. ask me a question, any question. just ask me a question. >> what time is it? >> listen, i answered that question before and if you want to know about it you need to talk to the president's outside council. >> that was different. i got soideways with sarah sanders about it. >> that's different. >> nobody pushed her on that the way i did in an interview that has lead to none of them ever coming on again, but i had to do

it. >> which says a lot that they won't come on. yes, but listen, a member of the intelligence committee that's going to get to ask a lot of questions of a lot of people including michael cohen and other members of this association is going to join us. >> key. good on you d.lemon. see you in a second. >> see you in a minute. >> i have an argument to make. this lincoln memorial, you can't leave it alone. there's too much there. the divisions in trump's america are deep, all right? what do you take from this? and the message in the president's message is real. we must hear it. next. if you like geico commercials, you're gonna love the best of geico. it's geico's all-time greatest hits back on tv for a limited time. and if you love the best of geico, you're gonna really love voting online for your favorite. you can even enter for a chance to appear in an upcoming geico commercial. this fire's toasty, linda

but the best of geico collection sounds even hotter. to vote for your favorite geico ad and enter to win, visit geico.com/bestof. that's geico.com/bestof. ♪ ♪

our new, hot, fresh breakfast will get you the readiest. (buzzer sound) holiday inn express. be the readiest. ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller transitions™ light under control™ transitions™ presents four new colors style colors by transitions™

. the confrontation in d.c. with the native american and the catholic school kids raises questions, why people act in the moment the way they do and what should happen to those people now? i'm not talking about the people involved in the confrontation but everybody else. in the actual confrontation no one was hurt. i have not seen any evidence that the kid involved did or said anything extreme to the man playing the drum. the group taunting the kids was being provocative. where were the chaperons? why did a school event involve m.a.g.a. hats? then the heart of it. the face to face part of it, the man nathan phillips wanted to

diffuse tension and the kid doesn't seem to be afraid but he did make a choice and that was to make it into a standoff. that was not a good choice. was it legal? sure. that's not my test. and that shouldn't be the test. if that was my son, would i like what he did? if i were there, would i have allowed the kids to be in that situation, no and no. there was a disrespect at play that doesn't work for me in these circumstances. i don't blame the kids. my concern were the reactions more so. a left and a right almost instantly had instant and opposite reactions. extreme misconduct, attacks by the kids. reverb about it being set up to hurt the kids. the man of the drum was accused of lying and provoking and then came the president. they have become symbols of fake news and how it can be.

they have captivated the attention of the world and i know they will use it for good. it started off unpleasant but can end in a dream. >> weren't they out of their depth? aren't they supposed to be protected from this? aren't you supposed to find a way to bring us together instead of exploiting every opportunity you find to divide, propping up the kids as victims. they were mainly victims of their own choices and actions, shouldn we discuss that? this play is bad for two reasons. the kids shouldn't be pawns. they are kids. i don't know who consented to the hats at a school event. there's issues of behavior for the parents and the school, period, but they're not just because of the hat and the confrontation. i do give them a lilly wttle le.

all kids, any kids, that's why our law treats them differently. the second thing, our president hasn't said a word about steve king and his bigoted white power friendly yap. they all came out against king and he stayed quite but now when the white kids with the maga hats get out there, he says something. go after white kids, potus doesn't like it. it's a pattern of choices by this president and it's not what we're about. especially where and when this happened. all of this taking place at the lincoln memorial on mlk weekend. the reverend told the nation there he had a dream of equality. what happened here, ain't that dream. there was no violence, but it wasn't nonviolent protest. it was opposing something for no

good reason. looking for differences and partisans rushing to weaponize it. this is the truth in one major regard. it is a true reflection of where we are. we seem to be able to agree on nothing, but i will argue that it isn't proof that all is lost and that the division, while overwhelming, there is a chance for situations like this that are supposed to be part of making it better. teaching the kids that you have to inject kindness into situations. the power of dialogue. what confrontation should be about. the kid even gets that. in his statements he made publicly, he said i wish this had never happened. he's right. hopefully he'll never make a choice like this ever again. how about the rest of us? when will we decide to handle things better? and do you know what we can use? a leader in that regard. that's what a president is supposed to be. and if he doesn't want to fill

that job, who is going to step up? who is going to step up and make us better? because this is not sustainable for the country. it's not a way for us to be our best by any definition. thank you for watching cnn tonight and d. lemon, right now. >> chris. we don't share notes. i have notes here because i knew you were going to talk about this and they're almost similar, so if you'll just allow me just a minute or two to get this out and then you and i can discuss it. >> sure. it's your show, brother. >> your assessment is right on but there's other things. there was some misreporting here. media is not off the hook. not trying to get media off the hook. of course people including the media shouldn't jump to conclusions. the benefit of the doubt should be given to all in you are society and not just some. that means the kids