her, but she didn't have the ability to communicate them to anyone. kate? >> just compounds the tragedy here, hearing that. martin, thank you so much. i appreciate it. sure, we'll continue to follow this for all of you. thank you very much for joining me today, guys. "inside politics" with john king starts right now. ♪ ♪ thank you, kate and welcome to co"inside politics." thank you for staying with us. day 33 of the partial government shutdown. democrats demand the president re-open the government before negotiations with border wall funding, plus the state of the union is uncertain. house democrats say no prime time platform for the president while the government is still shut down. the president will speak tuesday night. location and format, tbd.

count pete buttigieg in and count him as number nine, today the mayor of south carolina, an afghanistan veteran, a rhodes scholar and just 37 years old. >> i belong to a generation that is stepping forward right now. we're the generation that lived through school shootings, that served in the wars after 9/11 and we're the generation that stands to be the first to make less than our parents unless we do something different. >> we begin the hour with movement on capitol hill, but no real hope that movement will actually lead to a solution, this on day 33 of the partial government shutdown. pictures here, federal employees protesting in the hart senate office building this hour. those folks dreading, no doubt, the second missed paycheck come friday. the second, the senate will vote on two opposing bill, and one from president trump and the other from democrats, neither bill expected to pass. the president showing optimism in his party's plan this morning, tweeting great unity of

the republican party wants to once and for all put an end to unstoppable crime and drugs. border security and wall, no doubt. he then tweeted what you expect to become a new trump catch phrase, build a wall and crime will fall. democrats showing as much resolve, senator chuck schumer saying moments ago, the democrat plan, in his view, asks so little. >> the president's proposal demands a wall and radical legal immigration changes in exchange for opening up the government. the second vote demands nothing in exchange for opening up the government. so the first vote, unless you do it my way, i'm keeping the government shut down. that's the trump amendment. our amendment. open up the government and then let's talk. the first vote is completely partisan. the first vote is the president's hostage taking position codified into an amendment. >> cnn's manu raju live on capitol hill. manu, are these show votes or

important votes even though we don't expect either plan to pass? >> we don't expect either to pass. the question is what happens after they likely fail? the president's proposal has no chance of passing. that has virtually no democratic support, maybe one, maybe two democrats will support it and certainly not enough to overcome 60 votes and republicans plan to block or believe that they have enough votes to prevent the democratic plan, the one that passed the house to re-open the government up until early february. they believe that they will be able to prevent that. of course, he was going to oppose that plan for preceding 13 republicans would need an effect to overcome that moving forward. the question is what happens afterwards. nancy pelosi had a closed-door meeting with her democratic colleagues this morning and told her members, stick together. stick to the plan, the plan being push the white house to re-open the government first and then let's talk afterwards.

she urged her members not to freelance because doing so could undermine the position and they believe they are in a firmer ground and ultimately the white house and republicans will cave, but again, we have not seen that happen yet and john, also, we have not seen talks occur over the last two weeks and i am told that nancy pelosi and the president have not had any conversations since the january 9th meeting which the president stormed out of the white house during the very contentious session and of course, weir hearing from people, the way to resolve this is for the democrats and the white house to come to a deal, but they're not even talking right now and these votes tomorrow are likely to fail. the question is what happens afterwards? john, the 23rd of january. >> have not spoken since january 9th. that's a bleak outlook. with me in the studio to share insight, michael bender with "the wall street journal," tamara beating with npr and the washington post. >> we're talking about the votes which could bring something.

are they show votes? the republicans will vote for their plan, the democrats will vote for their plan. the question is after that will you get something and might that include the speaker and the president deciding even though we disagree, maybe we should talk? >> maybe at the very least this week? we're seeing at least some movement here. there is going to be a vote related to the shutdown in the senate for the first time since this started a month ago, but inside the white house, i think that they are -- they are trying to project, the polls have shown that everyone is blaming trump on this,s as he said, and he urged people at the start of it. they're trying to project an image of winning. they're trying to rally their troops and what they're talking about inside the white house is they can hold out as long as possible and trying to put the pressure pelosi and try to splinter off democrats cl they' which they've had no luck doing so far

and trying to leverage trump's unpredictability. it's sort of the same tactic they used in foreign policy and trade negotiations with china mexico and canada, but where this goes, you know, it's still an open question. >> and somebody else at the table help and i know you're in the middle of that and you have to keep a strong public face and they keep saying they're winning. with the caucus they're winning and the anti-immigration hardliner, he's winning and he's the president. if you look at the new cbs poll, is the border wall worth the government shutdown or not? yes worth it? 28%, not worth it, 78%. among republicans, yes, worth it 56%. 43% of his own party and a lot of people support the border wall. they just don't think you should screw 800,000 people for a second pay period with not getting a paycheck. i'm not saying the democrats don't have a responsibility

here, too, but how is the president winning? >> typically, the president in polls has 85% support among republicans and to have 40-some percent of republicans saying, ooh, this strategy isn't really possibly working for us. it isn't worth it because what the president said when he said he would own this shutdown is it's worth it for the wall. now at least some part of his base is saying it's not worth it for the wall. >> we have to wonder if and when it gets reflected in the congressional gop because trump has the privilege of saying i'm not going to budge. i can sit around forever and it doesn't matter how many fbi employees and tsa employees start screaming about other points of national security that are in danger that aren't the wall, but eventually does this trickle up to affect senators so much that they say i can't do this anymore. i'm not going to do it anymore. how many republicans cross over? there won't be enough, but how

many? how many will say after that vote is over, okay, we stuck with the party on this one. we released the tension and we've done it, but now we're not doing it again. >> and again, how does the president define this as winning when they say no sir. the question is when does the speaker or the president pick up the phone and talk to each other? >> we've seen some, just a few. a lot of democrats saying we don't want to keep the government shut down and only a few saying we will give the president a little bit here and a little bit there. the democrat senator of ohio. he may run for president saying, yeah, sure some democrats want to get the government open. what? >> i think -- i think democrats are open to any ideas that don't just encourage and entice the president to do it again. i don't know how you put strings on a bill saying the president can't keep acting like a jerk. >> colorful language -- colorful language, but that is the

democratic point if we negotiate anything before the border wall before the government is reopened then what's to stop the president with the fight after that. >> that's the language you hear more and more. he said it in more memorable, folksy sort of way, but pelosi and this idea that over and over again, he can use this tactic. he can use government workers and a government shutdown as a tactic for more border security or a border wall. if he gets 5 billion he'll need more money, will he do it again and again? the big question is these republicans, they're clearly already hearing from constituents and this isn't the 800,000 and the businesses relying on those people having to spend on those businesses and they are hearing it and this test vote on tuesday, do people that we think would cross the line and people like collins and murkowski and people like corey

gardner, do they cross the line at this point? and there are democrats, we heard from a democrat in minnesota saying give the president the wall at this point and it seems unlikely. the democrats are dug in on this and the thing is what president trump wanted. he's called for a shutdown over and over again and he finally got it this go round. >> he said it in the beginning. he would be proud to do it. to be fair for the president, our bill weir went to iowa, if you talk to farmers, now they can't get data from the agriculture department about future trump planning and still trump voters say we're going to hang in for now. >> you know, i think there's some growing uneasiness. >> we're sort of in the middle of the game and you can't pregame the outcome of the game in the middle. >> you can second guess the coaching if you're down by 50 points. >> oh, yeah. absolutely. >> we're down by a few touchdown, if you want to put it that way. he campaigned on a lot of the things he's doing right now and

he's doing it. >> there's that faith in, i don't like the short term, i don't like today, i didn't like yesterday, i'm not going to like tomorrow, but give the president a chance and those are the people he hopes tech with him. >> it raises the question that sharon brown is answering. here's the solution for the border wall. here is a solution to get the government reopened and we're going to kick the can on daca and tps and we'll have the fight again. >> and some of the stuff angered part of his base, right? the daca and tps stuff. you had anne coulter saying this guy is jeb bush and we wanted donald trump. >> the democrats don't trust him to do it. they'll have a broader immigration, and which is why they don't want temporary anything and they want permanent and welcome to the week. we'll have fun. let's watch the votes tomorrow and what happens after these votes. up next a new poll gives nancy pelosi higher marks for her negotiating bill. federal workers and service

workers turn to charities for help during this painful shutdown. >> we're five-plus weeks into the government lapse and non-pay. you as members of the armed forces should not be expected to shoulder this burden. i find it unacceptable that coast guard men ask women have to rely on food pantries and donations to get through day to day life as service members. new age perfect hydra nutrition moisturizer from l'oreal. an ultra-nourishing cream enriched with manuka honey extract. age perfect relieves dry skin and leaves it hydrated, toned and more elastic. new hydra nutrition moisturizer from l'oreal. new hydra nutrition moisturizer not long ago, ronda started here. and then, more jobs began to appear. these techs in a lab.

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the president gets more of the blame when americans are asked who is responsible or more responsible of the government shutdown, but when you look at the partisan breakdown of the survey, whether the question is what do you think of the border wall or who is the better negotiator then the poll in washington perhaps becomes more understandable. take a look. 47% of americans say democratic house speaker nancy pelosi is doing a better job at shutdown negotiations, and 35% say president trump, and 79% of

democrats say pelosi gets a higher mark. independents give pelosi the edge. let's go inside the numbers for the pollster's podcast, democrat margie romero and republican sanderson. and everybody goes off into their partisan corner. if you look at the numbers that have been out in the last couple of weeks, is there any warning sign for either side to blink? >> i think this is one of the worst polls to in out for republicans and president trump thus far in the shutdown. his job approval has slid about half a point to a point each week which isn't the direction you want it to go, but it hasn't presented a political crisis yet. i would argue that having fewer than three out of four republicans saying you're doing better at the shutdown, the numbers among republican, even though they look good and they should be in the 80s and 90s, that represents that trump is headed in the wrong direction and there's further for him to go that only 35% in the poll thinks he's doing a better job think there are some folks that

currently approve of him a little bit and maybe they're republicans, but they don't think either side is doing a good job and his numbers could go even lower. >> when nancy pelosi tells democrats stick with the plan. we'd all like the government open, but stick with the plan. is she in a safe position or is there a worry for the democrats? >> i think the challenge is looking at the percentage of folks who feel personally affected and feel that this is a serious problem. those numbers seem to be getting worse. you have more people who feel that they're affected. it depends on how different polls ask it a different way, but it's about a fifth. those numbers are not as partisan in this poll as they have been in previous polls. that is a bipartisan worry that this is a really serious challenge and it really challenges what trump has said about himself. i can fix it. i'm going to keep people safe, i'm going to do things differently. i can make the best deals and that's not what voters are seeing when they look at what's happening with the shutdown? >> if you look at the numbers, if we lived in a normal washington and if you had a

traditional president you would look at these numbers to your point, it's not going well, what do you want trump to do now? agree to a budget without a wall. open the government. 66%, two-thirds of the americans say mr. president, give in. now, but again, among republicans and this is where you see some danger. agree to a budget without a wall, refuse the budget, stick to your gun, mr. president, 65%. two-thirds of two-thirds of republicans say stick to your guns, but that 32% is the warning sign. >> hang on to the 65% because he believes that's as much as he's going to get. he has realized he's not going to win over democrats no matter what he does and he'd be in real big political trouble if all of a sudden his bottom falls out and if his base is no longer with him. if he gives in, will his numbers go back up with independents and democrats? maybe, maybe not, but they might really drop with republicans so

he's gotten himself into a bit of a lose-lose situation. >> do democrats have to give him something on the wall? >> here's the thing about the questions. is it a question of the wall or the budget? is it appropriate to shut down the entire government as a way to solve policy disputes or is it a political tactic that people feel there are real consequences and it's partisan politics and it hurts real americans and i think voters are seeing this as the latter, as something that's just not an appropriate way to have a policy dispute or disagreement. it's rather than about any specific policy. we need the government to be open with health care reform, government reform and ethics and these other issues and that's why folks across the aisle are saying this is not the right path. >> we are focused on the here and now which is the fight over the border wall. weir also in the early days of the 2020 campaign. a democrat gets in today and democrats are getting in and we assume the president will be the republican nominee. if you're the president and you

mentioned this earlier. the cbs poll has this approval rating going down. 37% approve, 57% disapprove. he's heading down. he just lost an election. the democrats take the house. in the early months of the new year your numbers are going down. if you're a president rafrmimpip for reelection, what do you do about that? >> they rebounded when the economy got better and they rebounded after the tax reform passed early last year in part because it seemed like the economy is going well and things are moving in washington even though the tax reform bill was meddling popularity. it's not to say they couldn't again and bear in mind the last time the government shutdown the republicans took a beating in the polls and it's possible he could recover from this. we've got a long time until next november. >> next november. one last thing and this is the pew number. you look at gen-z and

millennials. approve of younger voters, trump is in the tank. do you think he will solve problems? those numbers look strong. is there a cliff for the republican party if they don't find a way to change the numbers among younger americans? >> now there are two generations, millennials and gen-z who both hold positions and not just that president trump's not doing a good job, but on the ideological core question, what should the role of government be in society. government should be doing more, that is the real trouble for republicans. it's not just about trump. >> are they solid numbers or can they change? >> certainly numbers can be fluid, right? numbers can change. we don't see an indication that the president will do things differently than he's done. you asked before what things the president can do to change it, sure there are, but has he shown an inclination to do it? we'd be in trouble on our side if republicans listened to millennials and the new gen-z, and there was a new chance to

listen to chris on gen-z. >> thanks for coming in. >> thanks. up next, there is a new 2020 candidate with a tricky last name. >> the best way to pronounce your last name? >> buttigieg. around south bend they call me mayor pete and that's fine with me. i'm alex trebek here to tell you about the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85 and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three p's. what are the three p's?

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some breaking news now in the state of the union staredown. there is a sub plot of the government shutdown. house speaker nancy pelosi says the president should not come to congress as scheduled next tuesday to give his state of the union as long as the government is closed. the president has responded with a letter to the speaker. let's go to kaitlan collins live at the white house. what does the president say? >> he's daring nancy pelosi to formally uninvite him from delivering the state of the union on february 29th. in the letter she told the president she believed he should postpone it and she did not say she was uninviting him to come from january 29th. we got this letter from that's almost dripping with sarcasm. there were security concerns because of the government shutdown about staffing for the state of the union because it includes not only the president and the vice president, but several cabinet members as well and in this letter the president says essentially that those

concerns from nancy pelosi are unfounded. he says even prior to asking i was contacted by the department of homeland security and the secret service to explain that there would be no problem regarding security for this event. he said they've since confirmed this publicly and then, john, he goes on to say, but because there are no security concerns regarding the state of the union i will be honoring your invitation in full filling my constitutional duty in the state of the union. it would be very sad for our country if the state of the union were not delivered on time, on schedule and very importantly on location. john, we've been going back and forth with the white house and democrats over the last several days regarding what's going to happen with the state of the union because the white house said they are moving ahead with plans to hold it there even though earlier this week they asked the sergeant at arms if they could do a walk through and that was a request that was denied because they asked to do

it on monday which was a federal holiday. what our hill colleagues have said in their reporting is that pelosi essentially told members of her caucus this morning not to invite their families to washington next week which implied that there would be no state of the union address and you've heard democrats say that they don't believe there will be a state of the union unless the government has re-opened. to get technical with you here, technically nancy pelosi has to introduce a resolution formally inviting the president to have the state of the union address on february 29th at the scheduled time and that is something that has to pass both the house and the senate. she hasn't introduced that yet and it's unclear if she's going to introduce it given the president's latest letter saying that he intends to show up on capitol hill on january 29th, but really, if you don't want to read this whole letter, what it is is the president daring the house speaker to uninvite him officially from giving the state of the union address next week if the government is not open. >> no negotiation on the shutdown, kaitlan collins,

appreciate the breaking news. to that point, this is not going to re-open the government at least in the short term. i suspect the speaker's gut response, you are more than welcome, but this is a power play by the president. nancy pelosi said first. this is my house and you're not coming if the government is shut down. the president saying i'm coming. where do we go? >> in some ways this is the pitiest part of the whole debate and in some ways the least important because it does not look like she'll be able to use the state of the union to re-open the government. the state of the union is a big, political spectacle, it doesn't do anything, and it doesn't change minds and it doesn't have the pool of policy or anything like that. i imagine if you were nancy pelosi, she said he can give it in the oval office and she might still be there. in the intervening petty play the president canceled her trip, right? she was supposed to go abroad with a group of democrats to

afghanistan and other places and cancelled that trip. i don't think that trip will be back on at any point. >> it is a tradition and a major event for any president to take away that national platform that we always joked in the clinton administration, my god, it would always help the president and he would speak for more than an hour and all americans should listen to the president and one would think all would want to if we're back in the divided world. in the context of the shutdown, this is the president saying prove it. prove you have the spine to say no to me. >> and this is the president of the united states in the only direct communications with the speaker of the house that they've had in, like, two weeks have been these tit for tat, back and forth about the state of the union and not even about the government shutdown and you know, the state of the union is supposed to be a speech where a president, as you say, outlines his policy priorities. president trump has only talked about one policy priority for

more than 35 days and that is the wall and border security. i'd actually be kind of curious to hear what else he's working on. >> they thought they would recommit to their house and lecture them. you want decorum. we don't interrupt the president and republicans have done it to president obama in the past. if you look at public opinion for any guidance, welcome to america and this say new cbs poll, should trump give the state of the union? no, he shouldn't, 48, yes, he should, 48. welcome to america. are all democrats confident in this play by the speaker? let me ask in this context, the president gave a speech from the oval office in the wake of the shutdown. it didn't do him any good. it got national attention when he outlined his proposal to break the compromise and the polls show that didn't do him any good so why are the democrats worried about him

talking again if the number goes down every time he talks? >> except that they have to sit there and watch him for those two hours. i mean, look, you asked if democrats are as confident as pelosi, and pelosi is the most confident democrat, and it's not she's denying the president of his inauguration or something that would matter for him being able to do his job. he still has the oval office and he still has a way to communicate to the american people and what the state of the union often is and the visuals of the president speaking to the divided chamber that is sitting or standing depending on when they hear what they want and it's not about the president's speech because everyone is watching the individuals, too, and to have that sort of face-off at this point when everything else is iced over would be weird. >> it's the optics of it. business as usual even though there isn't business as usual because, you know -- >> this -- this, though, just puts it right here on a piece of

paper. if you didn't believe it, this is not about the border wall and this is about a test of wills about the new speaker who has to deal with divided government and when we come back, a new candidate in the race for the democrats and guess what? double digits will happen soon. reach her health goals! i'm in! but first... shelfie! the great-tasting nutrition of ensure. with up to 30 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals! ensure. for strength and energy. ensure. shouldn't mean going back to the doctoro just for a shot. with neulasta onpro patients get their day back... to be with family, or just to sleep in. strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection. in a key study neulasta reduced the risk of infection

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welcome back. for a guy who is only 37, pete buttigieg has an impressive resume. he is now looking to add president of the united states before he hits 40. the mayor of indiana launched a presidential exploratory committee and with that becomes the ninth democrat to enter the race and yes, it's only -- a

harvard educated rhodes scholar as well as lieutenant in the navy reserve who previously served in combat in afghanistan. of historical note, buttigieg is the first openly lgbtq official to run for president. the generation distinction is one of his assets. >> the case here is simple, that it's time for a new generation of leadership in our country. i have served my city as a mayor. i've served our country as a military officer, and now i'm ready for a new way to serve the american people. i am thinking about what the world will look like when i reach the current age of the current president which is the year 2054, and if you're thinking about what you'll be doing in 2054 the world just looks a little bit different to you because you know that you're going to be picking up the pieces.

>> what do we think? >> 2054, a mean, that's a long way away, but he -- my first impression is he looks even younger than 37 and my goodness, he does have an impressive resume and you think about this field, a lot of talented folks who do have impressive resumes and one of the most diversive fields and he is the first lgbtq to run for president. you have jared brown who may run and someone who can appeal to the midwestern, leave it to beaver feeling in the midwestern part of the country and the voters who switched over from obama to president trump and we'll see if he's able to do that. >> we have nine so far and the nine so far, it is a remarkably young and remarkably diverse field as you look at it so far. this is nine. there are at least, ten, 15 more people, maybe 20 more people thinking about it so this field is going to grow without a doubt. you mentioned the midwest and

maybe senator klobuchar runs and we are waiting for them. do not underestimate the idea that in small town, small city america they feel forgotten. don't underestimate that in farm country they're under a lot of stress right now not just because of the president's trade war, and for a guy who speaks the language is he going to rocket to the top of the field? who knows? do not underestimate the appeal of a local guy who speaks the language in iowa? >> why not? it's a wide-open field and you can throw his name out there and get some attention and get his issues out there right now. if he's talking about his resume and we sat around and talked about it before what democrats want and look back a few years ago and hillary clinton was -- you could make a straight-faced argument, she was the most qualified and had the best resume on paper of any candidate in our lifetime and it didn't do democrats many favors there, but there are, you know, is it going

to be -- is it going to be the resume? is it going to be authenticity? is it going to be a particular issue? what mayor pete's candidacy here does is add more questions to that at this point and not narrow it. >> to your point about senator and secretary clinton after the election, listen to this interview from a year ago, pete buttigieg said listen, she spent the whole campaign saying trump is a bad guy, and trump's not honest. that's not enough. she didn't make a compelling economic message. >> we've still got to learn that trying to convince everybody that donald trump's not a good guy or not an honest person is a waste of time. so many people around here already know that he's not a good guy, believe that he doesn't tell the truth and voted for him anyway. this idea that we're finally going to find some magic bullet after all this time is someone who is a voter for trump through all of the things now that will be flipped by some revelation that he's not an outstanding

person is totally missing the point. >> he has a point to make. definitely, that is true and spending time saying not that guy while people are saying why you? there say part of the democratic base that is also going to have to feel somewhat electrified by whoever the candidate is and for that you have to have somebody who just can't, i'm going to play for a positive message. buttigieg will have to get some fire with him in that. small towns matter, yes, and we're talking about the presidential race right now and the middle of america doesn't usually vote democrat, and you have get urban voters out, too and you'll have to get a message that makes them more invigorated. >> if you look at that field and the field will get even larger. one thing is clear. these democrats believe that it's an open race, that all of these people are running for president means that they think they could not just win the primary or maybe not win the primary, but that they could

beat donald trump, and that is one signal. another signal is if you look at that graphic of those people who are running for president, a lot of them don't look like the people who have been president of the united states since the founding of our country. the democrats are putting up candidates who are more diverse, who are women. they didn't get away from hillary clinton losing thinking, i guess women can't be president, instead, we're getting a record number of women running for president. >> we'll be right back. at panera, we treat soup differently. with vine ripened tomatoes, signature cheddar, simmered to perfection. with big flavors, not artificial ones. enjoy 100% clean soup today. panera. food as it should be. enjoy 100% clean soup today. a lot will happen in your life. wrinkles just won't. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair's derm-proven retinol works so fast, it takes only one week to reveal younger looking skin. neutrogena®

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back to the breaking news we reported just a few moments ago. the president of the united states defiantly sending a letter to the house speaker nancy pelosi saying sorry, madam speaker, i plan on coming to capitol hill next tuesday to deliver my state of the union address. speaker pelosi had said no, mr. president, not if the government is partially closed. what now? manu raju joining me from

capitol hill. a test from the speaker. >> the house and senate will have to pass a joint resolution to allow the president to speak on january 29th as the president is demanding. so him just saying that he will come does not necessarily mean that the actual state of the union will take place. in fact, john, i am told that in a closed-door meeting this morning nancy pelosi told her members and advised them not to bring their family members to washington next week. that was viewed by people in the room as an implication that the state of the union will not take place since members often bring their family members to washington to either attend some of the festivities around the speech or even sit in the fw galleries and watch the address take place, but she suggested that was not necessary because of the expectation for the state of the union would actually not happen. we have not gotten a formal response yet from the speaker's

office to the president's letter which just came out, but in order for this to go forward, the president and the white house, the republicans know you need to have cooperation from the speaker, support from the democrats and allow this to happen. so even if the president wants to do it, it is uncertain that they'll actually happen. the ball is in the speaker's court and we'll wait to see what she has to say in the coming hours. >> we will wait, the state of the union staredown and as we go to break, we will show you pictures live in capitol hill. some government workers are protesting and they would like, they're about to miss a second payday. they would like a check. we'll be right back.

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we don't bake. ♪ opportunity. what we deliver by delivering. field folly. paul manafort's attorney to answer questions from the special counsel. the former trump campaign chairman lied repeatedly, and cooperation. they fall along the lines of misunderstandings caused by their client's faulty memory. we expect soon to see a redacted version of the document that was filed in d.c. circuit court. this morning joining us to discuss sean wu and shimon prokupecz. what is the biggest question answered? >> it's the defense of manafort. how far can his attorneys go in defending paul manafort on those revelations about collusion and the polling data that he gave to

the russians. it will be interesting for me to see whether or not they try to defend him certainly, politically. publicly, he's taken a lot of heat for this. the president's campaign has taken a lot of heat for this. i want to see if there was any way that troowill try to find a to defend this. >> for manafort's lawyers, will you expect to defend the president? could the russians have used their polling in their internet operation or will they be explicit in saying no, he was trying to do this guy a favor or an old business friend? >> they'll focus manafort and they'll try to push back, but it is really an unfair fight here. the prosecutor has the full discretion and they have all of the evidence and one of the biggest questions is whether they've gotten better at doing the redakctions this time aroun and they'll see the confidential information, but it is so hard for the judge to make these determinations and there is just mountains and mountains of

evidence that the special counsel has access to. you can't really do a trial of that information and even if they put on witnesses and probably the courtroom will be closed for that. it is very difficult. the judge tends to have to go with what the prosecution says. >> you mentioned the redactions. this is a government document they filed in this case. you see this, this is what happens. it's throughout. so you're trying to figure out what's going on in the case and you see this. more lines redacted. in the manafort case they made some mistakes in how they formatted the document so you could see some of them and that's how they learned of this polling and paul manafort. the same is true with regard to the allegations that he lied about the polling data with mr. kilimnik. >> that goes to the special counsel's investigation. there are people think that the kilimnik fact, that manafort shared the polling data with, could be the collusion in this

entire investigation, and if that theory holds up it's going to be problematic obviously for the campaign, for the president. so i think manafort's attorneys have a different view of this probably, about what was going on here. so that's why i'm wondering if somehow they need to get this out there, and they probably can't right now, but i think they may try to somehow. it's very important, i think, for the special counsel's investigation this aspect of the sharing of the polling data. >> put yourself in their shoes. your client is convicted. then he cuts a plea deal to cooperate and then the government says we've caught you lying repeatedly when you're supposed to be cooperating with us. how do you get out of that box? >> you establish sympathy for the client. he's an older person, terrible pressure and you've got him on all of this stuff and how much worse can you make it? cut him a break, judge, he's made some mistakes. >> when manafort is in court, we may have a mini trial on friday. >> you look at the question of

paul manafort and the bigger question is how does it impact the president, and we'll learn a little bit. thanks for joining us on "inside politics." we'll see you tomorrow. brianna keilar starts right now. ♪ ♪ thanks, john. i'm briana keilar live from washington headquarters. under way right now, two bills to end the shutdown and both destined to fail and as the debacle escalates more and more americans are blaming president trump. isn't it ironic the president says the centerpiece of the shutdown is to keep america secure, but many in charge of protecting the nation say the shutdown is actually making the country less safe including on the border. and she's the liberal that conservatives love to hate and she thinks the world will end in ten years because of climate change and compares it to world war ii. and the male nurse