jeanne moos. cnn. >> it's moos, right? >> reporter: new york. >> that is haunting. thanks for joining us. anderson starts now. good evening. today the president of the united states dared the speaker of the house to disinvite him from giving the "state of the union" address to congressneck week, so she did. this has never happened before. there's no getting past it and understating how totally bonkers it is. and keeping them honest, it's also a sideshow. we begin instead tonight with a sumgz. if you want to know about the state of the union, the president of the united states is not the one to ask. these people are. >> you have a 9-year-old, so how is this affecting your family? >> i don't need my extra milk at lunch, a 55 cent milk.

>> i was sitting at home literally thinking what child, my kids or grandkids whose life do i need to cash in to stay above water? >> when school was ready to start back here in atlanta and she said, you know, mom, i don't have to have a snack -- excuse me, it's very upsetting. >> i'm worried every day about how much food i have in my house. >> rather than go to the hospital and risk the bills from that you just decided to take that gamble? >> my husband didn't even know i was rationing. i just -- it's sick but like the thought of having more debt was scarier than the thought of maybe dying in my sleep. >> in her case she was rationing her insulin. that's the state of the union tonight. and so is this. an official at the union for air-traffic controllers who are on the job actually saying air safety is now being compromised.

>> it is already less safe than it was a mun ago when we shutdown. we have critical components to safety that are not there. we have processes not there, training not taking place, distraction in the workplace. we have controllers actually reporting to us that they're making mistakes when they are giving clearances, clearing planes in places where they shouldn't be clearing them in conflict with other airplanes because they're so stressed out about how they are going to take care of their family. their livelihood is threatened at this point. this cannot go on for months and years. it's not sustainable. >> not sustainable. yet a prolonged shutdown appears to be exactly what the white house may be planning on. white house acting chief of staff mick mulvaney has asked aejszs for a list of the highest impact programs that will be jeopardized if the shutdown continues into march and april. last month we reported tsa is asking screeners to relocate to

fill in for other screeners who are calling in sick. that is the state of the union. president trump wants money for his border wall and he's not backing down. democrats have offered money for border security but not a wall and they're not backing down. the president as you know said he was proud to take the mantel for this. and yet more polling tonight suggests people agree he owns the shutdown. 60% say the president bears a great deal of responsibility for it. that's far more than either republicans or democrats in congress. >> again he said he'd gladly take the blame. later he said the buck stops with everyone, not with him. and now he says it stops with nancy pelosi. the buck has indeed stopped, and the bucks truly have stopped for people who badly need them. before this began the president said that many for told him they're happy to make sacrifices for his wall. he hasn't been saying that lately.

however, his campaign advisor and daughter-in-law still are. >> so in terms of the workers coming to work and not getting paid, what would you say to them. >> listen, it's not fair to you and we all get that, but this is so much bigger than any one person. it is a little bit of pain, but it's going to be for the future of our country. >> a little bit of pain which is lot easier to say when you're not worried about paying the bills while directing air traffic or screening your bags or stopping the next terror attack or just doing the jobs that we want done and doing it for free. more now from cnn's abbey philip who jones us from the white house. does the white house think they have the upper hand in this right now? >> reporter: they decided today after a week of sitting on nancy pelosi's letter to call her bluff, force her hand to decide whether she wanted to disinvite president trump or allow the "state of the union" to go forward. it turns out she decided to

disinvite the president. they are scrambling to figure out whether the president should give another speech. and now president trump as you saw in his earlier remarks today are blaming democrats and really ramping up attacks on pelosi, a sign of the frustration he's been feeling in the last several weeks as so much of the blame has fallen on him for this shutdown. and yet again nancy pelosi seems to have the upper hand. >> and just in terms of alternate venues for this speech, do you know where they're considering? >> reporter: white house aides have been considering either the east room or outside of the white house, perhaps on the border, a campaign style rally. but one of the problems they're encountering is what kind of venue will give the president the same kind of gravitas that might be get from the halls of congress. they are concerned if he does a campaign style rally people will dismiss that as a political speech. president trump was not particularly happy with his last oval office address thinking he

looked stilted and stiff. this time around they need to give him a venue the same kind of oomph. >> i understand there's renewed talk about the president taking executive action to build the wall. >> reporter: negotiations have basically stalled, a source close to these discussions and told cnn that the president is once again think about some kind of executive action. now, this would be difference from declaring a national emergency, but it would do essentially the same thing, taking money from one part of the government, applying it to the border wall. we're also learning in his meeting this afternoon with conservative leaders the president was noncommittal about declaring any kind of executive action. he didn't suggest it though it was brought up by others in the room though were seen here as conservatives, really pressuring

the president to do something. the shutdown has gone on for so long, they see the political damage, and they are also concerned that president trump might be tempted to compromise with democrats. granting, for example, what they called amnesty for dreamers. so a lot of people frustrated on both sides, but the president still not willing it seems to take that additional step to either declare a national emergency or use some ort of other executive action for now, anderson? >> abbey philip, a lot to cover. next i want to go to the capitol, cnn's manu raju. >> reporter: democrats were in no mood to have the president come here to the house chamber and lecture them about the government shutdown especially since they believe this is all the president's fault. the president said himself that he would own this. and pelosi in fact said to her caucus today in a closed door meeting, i'm told, there's no point of you even bringing your family here to washington next week. people took that as a sign that the "state of the union" was never going to happen even

before the back and forth of the letters today. you'll recall that initial letter in which she urged the president to delay of the "state of the union" until after the shutdown. she first cited security concerns but then the president came back and the department of homeland security said they could secure the "state of the union" perfectly fine. she then said it was really about furloughed employees and the fact they're not getting paid, it's not fair for them to be forced to secure such an event with all these high profile public officials. but in today's letter she made mention of none of that. she just said very clearly the government needs to be reopened first before we do the "state of the union." so it's clearly a point of leverage she hopes to use in the talks going forward giving the standoff that we're in the fifth week of the shutdown, anderson. >> this may be a dumb question, but could he just show up and give the speech in the rotunda? could he deliver it on the senate floor instead of the house? >> reporter: the short answer is no.

he's going to need permission from democrats to do in the rotunda, permission from democrats to do in the senate as well. he does have floor privileges to walk onto the senate floor. but to actually deliver a speech, you would need some support within the senate because that institution operates on a concept called unanimous concept meaning everyone needs to agree. and in this environment it's hard to see that happening. so the president's going to have to find another venue off capitol hill. >> manu raju, thank you very much. perspective now from david brinkly. >> decorum was beginning to erode. it wasn't the "state of the union" but the president made a health care speech you'll remember and shouted at him. but, no, i could not conceive of that but i also could not conceive of a 34-day or 33-day

shutdown. and it comes at a time when pelosi is the new sheriff in town. she's asserting, you know, her primacy and the institution's primacy and so it's kind of a caustic mix. >> doug, how unprecedented is this? is there anything in american history to compare it to? >> well, look, the original "state of the union" used to always be a hand written message all the way up to woodrow wilson in 1913. wilson started a tradition of it. it's really fdr who called it the "state of the union," and it goes from being an afternoon event to a tv extravaganza. the big thing trump is using are his viewers. reagan postponed the "state of the union" address because of the challenger disaster and waited a week later to do it.

and of course you could go and there have been weird moments like in 1975 actually went in and said the "state of the union" of is not good. that's what we're dealing with right now, not a good situation. >> david this afternoon you tweeted after two years of bullying@real donald trump has found himself nose to nose with an opponent willing and able to push back. to what end does the government remain shutdown? >> here's where the democrats have a bit of a high ground because they've offered to reopen the government and in continue to negotiate on the wall and the president wants the leverage of a closed government to get his proposal around the wall. but, you know, i think one genuine and legitimate criticism is i don't think that the speaker would suggest that he not come because she was worried about security. i think she's suggesting he not come because she didn't want him

to use the platform of the "state of the union" to spend an hour repeating the same argument he's made at other national addresses now trying to make the case for why he has shut the government down and why he is fighting for the wall. so as doug mentioned, you can come back when this is over. and she's using this as a bit of leverage to try and force the president's hand. >> doug, the president calling pelosi's decision on the "state of the union" a, quote, great block on the incredible country that we love. is this the great block, or is that the fact that 800,000 federal workers not getting paid the greater block on the country? >> obviously it's the 800,000. look admiral carl schultz today of the coast guard having to make a plea that we're treating our coast guard service men and women so shabbily and terribly they have to go to food kitchens and the like, this is horrific moment in american history.

this is the great trump shutdown. his poll numbers are starting to go in the backwards direction. by all indications he's being blamed for this, and i think the president needs to now respond by doing a written "state of the union." if he wants to go give a campaign-like rally, he can do it. fox news will cover it. i doubt the big networks or even cnn will probably cover something like that. and as was mentioned, he already had a kind of "state of the union" a couple weeks ago about the wall, and network television carried it. so trump should give him the written version and then pelosi should invite donald trump later before summer recess to come and respond and talk to a full congress. >> david, i mean doug was talking about polls. the fact that far more americans blame the president for the h shutdown, he later backtracked on that and said it's everybody's responsibility. but it looks like he's gotten

his wish, he has the mantle of it. >> there's no doubt about it, he is taking a lot of water here. and his poll numbers are steadily declining. he's clearly being blamed for this. he needs an off-ramp here that he can walk without being called a quitter by his base. and i think they're frantically searching for it. but by the same token i think that there is some -- there is some toll on the institution of washington itself, of congress itself. i'm sure democrats are beginning to get a little bit uneasy as well because every night the news is led with stories like the one doug spoke of. everyone knows people in their community. i was in the airport today and saw the poor beleaguer tsa people who hadn't been paid and the pressure is mounting. so i think democrats are in a better position. trump is in a terrible position. both of them probably could use an exit strategy for this drama. >> doug, what happens if president trump does show up on

tuesday evening? i mean is that even a possibility? would speaker pelosi literally turn the president away from the capital? >> he might try to do an outdoor event by the capitol, for all we know. he's going to do something. donald trump i doubt is going to just try to read text off a teleprompter from the oval office and big networks to cover this. but i guess he'll try to use it to rally the american people to say, hey, this is the first "state of the union" delivered in ohio or, you know, arizona or something hike that. i think in movement donald trump has his best chance right now not just to be sequestered in the white house while the doors of congress have been locked. >> doug brinkly, david axelrod, thanks very muchmism. a lot more to talk about tonight including michael cohen backing away from talking to congress, and did the president of the united states loudly perhaps publicly and illegally scare him out of it.

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michael cohen today said he's out. the president's former lawyer and fixer canceled his testimony to congress and cited ongoing threats to his family was the reason. threats he says from the president of the united states and threats from the president's tv lawyer, rudy giuliani. let that sink in for a secondmism while you do, i want you to read a portion of the criminal code, tampering with a witness, victim or informant. quoting, whoever knowing uses intimidation, corrupts, threatens to persuade or attempts to do so towards another person with intent to among other things listed, influence, prevent or delay the

testimony of another official proceeding, also quoting again fwsh whoever harasses another person or disaids any person from attending or testifying in an official proceeding, that is witness tampering. and as you saw it hinges on attempt. so with that in mind here's what some of the president has been saying. >> and in order to get a sentence reduced, he says i have an idea, i'll give you some information on the president. well, there is no information. but he should give information maybe on his father-in-law because that's the one that people want to look at. because where was that money? that's the money in the family. and i guess he didn't want to talk about his father-in-law. he's trying to get his sentence reduced, so it's pretty sad. he's weak and it's very sad to watch a thing like this. i couldn't care less. >> what is his father-in-law's name? >> i don't know. but you'll find out and you'll look into it because nobody knows what's going on over there. >> that's the nation's chief

executive through article 2 of the constitution says, quote, shall take care the laws be executed. you're casting suspicion or openly calling on law enforcement to investigate a close relative of a potential witness against him. and doing it more than once. >> let me tell you the other thing, his father-in-law's a very rich guy, i hear. his father-in-law i thought was the guy that was the primary focus. well what did he do? did he make a deal to keep his father-in-law out, make a deal to make his wife -- and maybe i'm wrong, but you can check it it, did he make a deal to keep his wife out of trouble? >> he's also tweeting about it quoting a negative report on cohen and lying to reduce his jail time, watch father-in-law. for starters we should say that cohen's father-in-law once pleaded guilty to a financial crime relating to his taxi business and that was 25 years ago. he's yet to be charged with anything now. so was the president suggesting

he might be? maybe. or is he saying that he ought to be? who knows. whatever the case according to legal experts, could very well run afoul of that witness tampering code we just read. but one legal expert if he could pea called that, says, hey, no problem. >> so it's okay to go after the father-in-law? >> of course it is. if the father-in-law is a criminal, and the southern district of new york in the plea wanted him to go to jail and said he's lying. they don't buy the special counsel's approach. they say he's lying because he's holding back information that is far more damaging than the lies that he's sharing with them now. what's that information about? it's about his father-in-law. we talked about ukrainians, his father-in-law is a ukrainian. >> that's not a crime. >> of course it's not. i'm telling he comes from the ukraine. the reason that's important is he may have ties to something called organized crime. when somebody testifies against your client, you go out and you

look at what's wrong with them, why are they doing it if they're not telling the truth? he's doing it because he's afraid to testify against his father-in-law, because the repercussions for that will be far worse i think than the repercussions for lying here. >> not sure what that was about. it doesn't sound nice, does it? anyway, when giuliani and the president aren't seemingly reminding michael cohen of the consequences of testifying the president is openly praising someone who's not cooperating. and i'm reading for the tweet, i will never testify about trump. nice to know that some people still have guts. keeping them honest, none of this is even row motley normal. cnn's contributor and white house counsel john dean could only consider one other instance that dean who just testified before congress must be

destroyed. president nixon never said it in public or anything like that nor has any president before since, none. nixon was caught on tape and witness tampering became part of the articles of impeachment against him passed in july of 1974. president trump whether he's committing a crime or not, whether it's an impeachable offense or not is doing what he's doing in plain sight and seems to have worked. the house oversight committee is seeking michael cohen's testimony. so the question now is what will that committee do next? joining us now is committee member. congressman, thanks for being with us. so is the president in your opinion to blame for cohen canceling his appearance before your committee or is it more complicated than that? >> i think clearly there's a concerted effort from the white house led by mr. trump and his hired gun, rudy giuliani, to not only discredit this witness but to by insinuation and no proof,

bring even more attention to the cohen family and to thereby intimidate mr. cohen and discourage his testimony. and it worked. my understanding is the family of mr. cohen is very upset and concerned by the climate, the toxic climate trump has created for mr. cohen and discouraged him strongly from testifying on open session. >> the irony is you have rudy giuliani bringing up the idea that the father-in-law may be involved in organized crime. and again, he's working for donald trump, you know, who knows a thing or two about new york real estate. do you believe that the president or rudy giuliani, that they've actually engaged in witness tampering, because that's obviously something specific and legal. >> if they haven't crossed that line, they've come perilously close. and their behavior ironically

when they're talking about the mob looks a lot like how mob behavior looks like. and it's a shameful moment for the presidency of the united states. >> congressman conally, if you would just stay with us. i'm joined by jeff toobin and gloria borger and dana bash. i know they also have some questions for you. jeff? >> should mueller investigate the president for this? should he add this to the things he's investigating? >> jeff, you know, i think that a lot of what we're concerned about actually has happened in front of our own eyes. for example, obstruction of justice. and, yeah, i think we -- they went on television and did this. and it's had an impact, and i think it is absolutely worthy of examination by the special prosecutor before he completes his work. >> does it make it less of a crime that someone duds it in public as opposed to in secret? >> no, it's just maybe a little more clever because a lot of us can't see what's in front of us.

it's almost like that story of the king with no clothes. it's happening in front of you but you don't see it. >> do democrats on the committee want subpoena him now? do they think that this is important enough and would set a bad enough precedent for them as you take over the congress and you want to talk to whistle blowers, et cetera, is this subpoena in the offering right now? >> i think it's highly likely. and i personally do support issuing a subpoena to compel the testimony. we've got to remember mr. cohen was a voluntary witness. in fact, he chose our committee and that venue to testify. he was not at all compelled. and his testimony would be open and under oath. this new threat has given him second thoughts and his lawyer second thoughts. so i think we need to compel the testimony while providing him lots of security. but his story needs to be told.

the public needs to hear the whole story with some carve outs in terms of what's going on with mr. mueller. but they haven't heard that so far, and i think you're seeing fear coming out of mr. trump and this white house because they know how much mr. cohen knows and they know how important his relationship was with the trump organization. >> congressman, what can you do to ease michael cohen's concerns about these threats? is there something that you can say? is there something -- a letter you can write to anybody? is there anything you can actually do as members of this committee who want to compel him to come and tell his story? >> dana, i think it's a very reasonable question, but on the other hand, it doesn't lend itself to an easy answer. i mean, we're not in the security business. we're members of congress trying to do our job and provide oversight. we have a witness who says i have reason to fear. we witnessed the same thing you

just showed in terms of mr. trump and mr. jogiuliani seeminy deliberately instilling that fear and stoking the fires of resentment in this witness. >> so you think his fear is physical safety, or do you think his fear is prosecution of his family? >> it's probably both. my understanding today was his family had real reason for physical fear. >> i see. >> the toxic social media environment in which we live. >> do you know -- i don't know if you've kind of organized what his testimony was going to be, but do you know what the scope of it was going to be? was he going to be able to talk about things related to russia, things he discussed with mueller and the southern district? and were you staffers going to have a chance to essentially preinterview him so that when it was actually public testimony it could actually be much more focused? >> probably yes to the latter.

the rules of engagement with mr. mueller had not yet been defined. my understanding is we've made overtures, our committee staff to the mueller organization. we have not had a definitive response from mr. mueller, and that's a work in progress. clearly there will be some boundaries, and we will respect them because we don't want to jeopardize the criminal investigation. >> congressman, appreciate your time. everyone else is going to stay with us here. we've got a lot more to discuss. and later we'll get sam donaldson to take a new reporting about kellyanne conway in leaps.

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it's not often you hear the allegations of ongoing threats aimed at the president of the united states and his attorney, rudy giuliani, concerning congressional testimony from michael cohen. testimony that's now on hold. as you know chaethat's exactly happened today. jeff, you were raising the point that if you were threatened by a mobster you could go into witness protection. >> right, exactly that's what happens. that's why the witness protection program exists because bad guys make threats against witnesses and their

families. what makes this situation in many ways worse is that the guy making the threat is in charge of the witness protection program and the justice department and the fbi. so, you know, donald trump, you know, he's saying why don't they investigate the father-in-law? well, who's in charge of that? he is. i mean, it is the most clear abuse of power that you could imagine. and, you know, we've become so -- to this, oh, it's just trump talking. this is not how this system is supposed to work. >> as we've been saying all day, this did work. rudy giuliani and donald trump scared michael cohen enough one way another to get him to back off for now. >> which makes it even worse. >> yes, i think he's fearful of his family. he's fearful that he will be in jail and not be able to protect his family, that he according to the people i talked to who are

close to him. and the more this went on, the more nervous he got. as you heard the congressman say at first he was a really willing person who wanted to come and tell his story to the american people. and now i think he's afraid to do it. >> the question i have and one of the reasons i asked the congressman this is if it's fear of security that's one thing. and he said that is part of it. but if it's fear that his father-in-law is going to be prosecuted now that it is so out in the open and giuliani and the president were so transparent about, you know, wink wink nod nod. it was a meg aphone saying maybe the father-in-law, there's something going on. it almost you would think potentially protects him because what u.s. attorney is going to then or prosecutor is going to then say, oh, thanks, mr. president, i'm going tago after this guy? >> but that's where the norms have disappeared. >> you're right. >> and talk about mccarthyism

and -- was there one word of what the father-in-law actually did? >> he's a ukrainian. >> millions of people are guilty of -- >> and he's been prosecuted before so therefore he's guilty of everything. >> i hate comparing stuff to movies, but it is something like out of the movie where they're look at the father-in-law. i don't want to denigrate any country, but one of the stands. we're living in this place that's ruled by a little ruling family. >> and just to further explain michael cohen's dilemma, he's going to jail in march. like, just a few weeks from now. and it is true you can be subpoenaed out of jail and, you know, forced to testify even though you're incarcerated. but it -- it does raise the question of how he's going to deal with his family during this situation because he's not available. >> but i still think that because this is all out in the open, because the cohen legal

team and his family have put the breaks on this and shined a light on exactly what giuliani was trying to do and what the president was trying to do, perhaps there's a better chance now that he will go and testify because it is now so obvious. it's so talked about that it's going on. >> and if he does testify, don't forget the republicans are not going to go easy on him either. so everything that donald trump is talking about you can be sure will come out in talking points from some republicans on that committee, and it won't be easy for him. and he knows it. >> nor should it be. he's a convicted felon. but he shouldn't be threatened out of testifying in the first place. >> exactly. and that is exactly what has occurred in broad daylight. >> is this witness tampering? >> well, i mean, it sure looks that way. you know, the people who are under investigation certainly have the right to say you -- the

accuser is a liar, a terrible person and there's nothing wrong with that. that's perfectly appropriate defense. what makes this different is that the person making those statements is a person with the power to prosecute those family members. >> but that's what i was saying. now it's out in the open, i feel like it's so much harder, even though it is his purview and it is his job and those people work for him, harder to actually see it through because everybody's going to know what's going on. >> but those are two separate questions. one is whether the family will actually be prosecuted. >> right. >> the other question is he intimidating cohen out of -- and that's the crime. the crime is intimidating someone out of -- >> and it's very obvious what he's doing. >> your question is would the attorney general force someone to take a look into this. and when barr was testifying what he said was, you know, there's no problem with the

president asking us to look into something, but there's a question to dana's point about whether we would proceed. >> and also for the white house saying we want everyone to cooperate -- >> oh, my gosh, that was so 2017. >> that was like three lawyers ago. >> so do you think he would be subpoenaed? i mean conally was saying he'd like him to be. >> what about testifying behind closed doors, though? would that be worse or better? >> the committee was already planning on examining him behind closed doors, but oversight, congress committee was supposed to have him testify in public. i suppose that is one way you could address the problem. i mean, don't kid yourself the democrats want this to be a spectacle, too. >> in the best hearings they usually preinterview, staff preinterviews people so that once the hearing is public, they don't have to go onto this

meandering journey. they can zoom in. >> correct. and one of the many questions out standing is if he agrees to testify, will he agree to that sort of preparation? he will be conveniently located in federal custody, so they'll know how to find him. but the question is will he agree while he's in custody to meet with staff and go over what he's going to say. and of course another issue that remains outstanding and conley said this had not been resolved either, and how much will mueller object to certain areas being off-limits and the southern district, too. also as i understand it an unresolved issue. appreciate it. much more ahead on the never ending chaos of the white house including an excerpt from a new book from a former trump aide who says some pretty extraordinary things about kellyanne conway. next. -ah, the old crew!

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a cartoon villain brought to life, that's how a former trump aide describes kellyanne conway

that have been part of the fabric of the trump white house. the former aide, his name is cliff simms wrote about it in a book that comes out next week called "team of vipers." simms writes about one particular day he was writing a statement on conway's laptop while she was texing on her phone. the two devices were connected and he writes for 20 minutes he could see the text conversations conway was having with at least a half-dozen reporters from all over the place she and president call fake news and she was trashing jared kushner, steve bannon, reince priebus. and talked about him like a child she had to set straight. we reached out to kellyanne conway for a reaction or statement, have not gotten a response. sam donaldson joins me now. sam, every white house has leakers as you know better than

almost anyone. how often is such a prolific leaker in such a high level position? >> well, i've not seen anything like kellyanne conway. i mean, she and the president are symbiotic in their relationship. they look in a mirror and see each other. they're both narcissists. they both want all the media spotlight on them. they don't mind trashing anyone. she tries on morning, joe, for instance, he trashes people. you want great stuff if you're going to publish it. so kelly. anne has to be very careful. when she covers herself by saying these are alternative facts, no, they're not alternative facts or alternatives truths. you can't buy that. >> if president trump hates leaks as he claims and kellyanne conway is a serial leaker, i guess why is she still there?

i guess he doesn't believe she's a leaker or she has some sort of tacit green light to do it, even if it includes bashing his son-in-law. >> she does good things for him. and he hates leakers unless they're leaks he wants. presidents are all kind of alike. ronald reagan said i'm up to my keister in leaks. as i say they have a relationship that's, well, mongoose and cobra. >> mongoose and kocobra. just in terms of where we are with the shutdown and the "state of the union," you've covered clinton, speaker gangbridge. this relationship really seems to be in a league of its own. >> i think it is. he's used to having his way, the president is. he's used to ruling over people, demanding things and getting

them. and he's now met big tommy delasandro's daughter. and she's made of steel, and she's not going to give up. and i think so far she's won this fight. now, we'll see what the president i don't think he's going to do that. >> that would seem crazy. >> he's not that foolish. >> the guards -- what would a guard do when they can't admit people who are not admit ted by the house of representatives in the senate to a joint session. he says i'm coming in. does the guard say, i'm not. no, it's a situation that the great riot in the east room after the elections this fall. when the president created a

riot and joined in. we're human. i think. but it's just something that couldn't happen. i don't know what he's going to do. he has the problem of appealing to people other than the base. the base doesn't care where he goes or what he says. but a lot of other people do and that's important. >> is there any kind of in a statesman like a george mitchell or jim baker who can bridge the gap or at least get the two sides seriously talking, or z that no longer exist in washington? >> if they exist, i'm not familiar. there are many others who could do that and bridge the gap between republicans and democrats and conservatives and liberals. but the town is so poisonous. we're so poisonous. the american people are at each

other's throats and hate each other instead of just arguing about politics. i'm not sure there's anyone that could bridge the gap. the president has to win. he's got to win for two reasons. because he always wins and you can't not and because he's got. to build that wall or maybe a few of his base will say, hey, it's a con man. i've been conned. >> it's always great to talk to you. >> another chris cuomo. what are you working on? >> i did a show with sam donaldson. there was a segment called stump sam. it's true. there he is. nobody got a hat. mongoose, what was the name of the famous mongoose and cobra that fought.

and what was the snake's name? >> three letters. >> nag. >> i did not know that. >> do i get a bonus? >> i expect it. you're our best. you rise to the occasion once more. we'll try to take your lead. we'll get inside the intrigue and call out o why the shutdown has gotten so bad. the head of the air traffic controllers union wants to come on the show to tell people how concerned he is. we both know that's very rare. we're giving them time to do that. we'll look at how legitimate to the safety is and i believe there's something that could unite washington. it's going on right now. it involves your favorite thing, football. >> really? >> they haven't seen those

pictures of you playing linebacker. i have. >> we're on the old pig begskin. >> yes, sir. >> thanks very much. up next, more kellyanne conway, she's asked a simple question about the overwhelming majority of people. the word that followed it is nearlyshake peeren. we're going to play if for you next.

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now it's about the time we sometimes end the program with something we call the ridiculist. sometimes there's a little humor thrown in. but every once in awhile, every once in a super blood wolf moon, the ridiculist just writes itself. tonight is that night. 71% say the border wall is not

worth the government shutdown, a pretty clear signal. abbi phillip tried to ask kellyanne conway about such poll and with that, we invite you to behold the self-writing ridiculist. >> the new poll out showing 71% of -- >> do you have the poll question? i just want to see the question. >> the question was is the wall worth the government shutdown? >> so why would that be the question? >> what is the president -- >> i'm asking why you're still saying wall when the president said you can call it whatever you want. >> he call it is a wall himself. >> i was in the situation room and he said to leader schumer that -- it's a great slogan. build a wall and crime will fall. >> why can't we call it a wall? >> steel slat barrier, physical barrier, anything. in other words, we need a physical barrier that you can't crawl under, climb over, drive

through or walk around. that's why i have doors in my house. i assume you do also. in other words, it's to protect people on the inside. i don't understand why it's so difficult to get. beyond what you all want to make a four-letter word wall when the president said to chuck schumer and since publicly call it what you want to call it. but let's secure our border. >> i never called it a wall. why did you call it a wall? who is calling it a wall? day ever say a wall? i didn't say a wall. i don't think i ever said a wall. time to say bye. or so long. or call it whatever you want. just keep talking. if you don't want to address the topic at hand, in other words, cuomo start nous. >> very well done, anderson. that did write itself. i am chris